How to Turn Boys Into Men in the Modern World | Richard Reeves
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On Today's Episode:
We may have unintentionally swung the pendulum on women’s rights and equality in a way that is creating unforeseen consequences for men and boys.
We’re talking about male inequality and sorting through some of the biggest contributing factors affecting fathers, sons, husbands, and boyfriends. The mounting data is telling a story of women being able to live well without the need for men and in the absence of a well defined male role in our modern society, men are on the decline.
Males are struggling with education, agency, purpose, and seeing higher numbers of suicide.
Richard Reeves joins Tom Bilyeu to highlight some key points that we as a society must take into consideration as we decide how to move forward. Richard was named one of the top 50 thinkers in the US for his work on class and inequality. He’s also the author of the book, Of Boys and Men.
Disturbing factors Richard is underlining in this conversation includes:
Women no longer need marriage to survive and marriage is proving to be more important to men than women
Deinstitutionalization of masculinity in a cultural problem
Biology, culture, and the individual thrive together and not apart from one another
Check out Richard Reeves book, Of Boys and Men: www.amazon.com/Boys-Men-Moder...
QUOTES:
“Boys and girls are struggling in different ways at different points in their lives."
“When you took the brakes off women, it turns out they can drive the car faster.”
“We have to think about biology and culture as co-evolving and most importantly recognizing biological differences doesn’t make culture less important, it makes it more important because culture is how we learn how to express or not express these tendencies, or when it’s appropriate to express them and when it’s not appropriate to express them.”
“A big reason for the gender pay gap is parenting, [...] it’s not just that mothers earn and work less, it’s that fathers earn and work more, and that drives the gender pay rate up significantly.”
“There is a problem right now with boys and men, and one of the sources of that problem is, we don’t have a new script for masculinity. We’ve torn up the old one, the breadwinning one, but we haven’t replaced it.”
Follow Richard Reeves
Website: richardvreeves.com/
Twitter: / richardvreeves
Facebook: / richardv.reeves
WARNING: I will never ask for your contact info in the comments section, that is someone impersonating me!
Hi Tom!
Reduce the educational gap between boys and men compared to Girls and Women. Doing nothing about this situation is not working. Displaying indifference is not acceptable.
Men and boys know that college costs more than their potential future income. As such, it isn't worth doing. Likewise, if I never marry or have kids, I can get by on a lot less.
The sad thing is how no one seems to care about these men which makes it even more devastating to the ones that are affected. In fact not only is there no sympathy, people go out of their way to berate and put them down. Keep in mind however that we live in democracies and it will have more and more of a political impact as more of these men emerge. How we handle this is going to be extremely important to the future of humanity. If you think politics have been bad over the last decade that was just the beginning.
You've seen a drop in violent behavior because of p*rn and video games that drop will reverse as more men like me become disinterested in both and instead get interested in this, these are my observations but i think sedation is over, this Incel movement the Pills the suppositories whatever they are, are the result of this, they are waking up.
Try being Cluster B. Society will go out of your way to make you miserable
The battle of the sexes has been going on for a long time. And men in this nation have grown weary of the fight. Since women have decided to bad mouth their mates, the male children avoid marriage like it's the plague. This has really escalated in the last ten years or so. Young men don't think they need the headache any longer. It's hard for most males to be attracted to vicious females. I could understand this if they had been divorced, but many of the young girls today that have never been married. It's easier just check out of the dating game than to try to appease a woman these days.
@@jameslee-dp6cb I have always thought that one of the conditions of a divorce should be a written agreement that neither the man or woman will defame (bad mouth) the other in front of the children. It is devastating to the psychology of the child.
@@jameslee-dp6cb The problem with men these days has nothing to do with women. Men aren't present in their children's lives because of their own choices. The men are choosing to not be present. Men need to start supporting each other and their children if they want to make any changes and stop blaming women, who really have nothing to do with the problem.
The problem with polygamous society is that the men who have the resources to monopolize hundreds of women for themselves require other men to provide the resources to the guy. No guy can acquire all that wealth by himself, he needs a system of working men that work for him. If these guys get nothing out of serving a leader that takes all their wealth, there is no reason to serve in that society.
This is why we had slavery and war at the same time of polygyny. Men would, at any cost, gather resources.
The fact that Tom's videos tends to get Way more views is proof people don't want to accept the fact that this topic is crucial, don't want to address men's needs, and the narrative of male dominance/the Patriarchy are just being held together by words, rhetoric & today's fictitious culture.
People would rather create a boogie man to blame because it means they will never have to take responsibility for their own actions, failures, personality etc. The problem with the boogieman is that its so vague and has no proof of existence that they can use it as a way to always avoid accountability.
One of the things that always seems to be ignored or glossed-over in these conversations when they take place outside off the manosphere is women's attractiveness to men. Maybe one of the things that's leading to men being less motivated is that, aside from sex, women don't show potential for contributing much to a man's life. What's the point in trying to be in a relationship with someone who is mean, unskilled, and views you more as a competitor than a partner?
I really appreciate these male-centered conversations Tom! So vital and few people have the courage to bring these up. In the work environment lately I’ve noticed women backing women, just to spite a lot of men. And God forbid you bring that up or even mention it, you’re done. For me, the best idea always wins no matter the age, race, or gender. But that hasn’t been the case in a lot of roles. Especially in the advertising and marketing business I’ve worked in the last 15 years.
The problem is this whole narrative of guys and girls being in competition with each other. When in reality we should be working together for a better humanity.
That is not easy or perhaps possible to solve when men and women are actually competing with each other... men retreating from society, is a way to avoid that competition, i dont think men were wired to compete with women
If you’re competing for work with women they are your competition.
Thumbnail: "Do Men have it worse" First 20 minutes: "Well women have had it so bad...."
Lmao 😂
Modern society in a nut shell. Not just on this topic
I came here from someone’s TikTok. OMG!!! What a resource! Every video! This one in particular has to have millions of views!!! I want to translate it in Ukrainian! I am sending it to ALL my close friends. Especially men. Thank you!
The problem has been generally framed and that's as far as this conversation is able to progress. No one has the slightest clue what to tell the men of this generation other than sorry but it's not a good time for you to be alive right now as no one knows what to do with you. The toll is and will continue to be taken on the children growing up with zero male role models in single mother households only to shock the rest of society with how poorly the males are coping. Welcome to modern society, be sure to get a good whiff of the self destruction and self harm that defines us so long as you never discuss it.
There really isnt anything else you can tell males except "sucks to suck man, women outperform males in literally everything so society doesn't need you anymore." It's just the unfortunate reality of the world we live in.
It is pretty disappointing. They never have anything to say because there is nothing men can do to fix this situation. God forbid there is a serious discussion on whether the newfound ability women have to maximize their mate preferences (~30% of young men) is good for society... It is depressing that, despite women not having to enter a marriage for necessity, they still require men to be equal or higher status. That's why the only advice for men now is to status strive even more to meet the new standard, or try to make yourself top 20% in attractiveness. It's obvious this solution can't work for the majority of men. I don't think people should be forced in relationships that make them unhappy just for the betterment of society. But this problem can't continue to be laid solely at the feet of men if there is any real intention of fixing it
I don’t even know what to tell young men about what they should be doing .. I’m talking about the average guy - without going the family route what is there for them? People like Reeves have no Answer
Bro I'm gushing over Tom's intellectual integrity. Such a sign of humility but also a sign of strong character. It can be so tempting to come off as smarter than we are, but he continually dismisses that temptation for the sake of greater knowledge/wisdom. You can just tell he REALLY wants to get at the truth and he doesn't care how he looks doing it. Ironically, I think it makes him look noble and insightful ✊🏾🔥💯 LETS GO BILYEU!
You're joking right? He's an intellectual midget who babbles with tangential thinking.
What integrity ? He didn't challenge any of Richards blatant lies. He is accepting everything like a young Pelican :-)
To my thinking, he’s talking the way someone with employees would talk.
@@piureczko Pretty much, i stopped taking him seriously once he mentioned feminism there done not interested.
I think it all comes down to personal philosophy. We currently live in an age of intense envy. Everyone looking at everyone else and going "I want what they got!" We define success as a state of perpetual conspicuous consumption. It's a con job to keep people in debt and always chasing after fantasies that leave them anxious and depressed so they'll buy anything that might offer a glimmer of false hope. If you don't buy into all that, life gets a hell of a lot easier. A basic fact of life is that only a handful will ever be rich. Most are, will be, and always have been, working class. So just find success in being the best working class you can be, because the con won't work if you're not greedy.
Humans are just selfish by nature. Look at Cain & Abel. I mean, look at God. He says he is a jealous God. So by design were f'ed. Just live your life to its fulfilment and try not to get caught up in rationalizing things that won't ever change.
Truth! You nailed it.
The suicide comment was interesting to me. I'm a male who had strong suicidal thoughts since early elementary school. I viewed myself with the same words, useless and worthless. I made 3-4 weak attempts at suicide in those early years. In order to gain some level of self respect, I had to channel that "aggression" into improving myself. I'm lucky it paid off. My attempt to swim to fatigue as a way to drown, and run until my asthma overcame me, ended up making me a good athlete. I've continued to push aggression and "purposefulness" for over a decade, pushing through multiple failures as I finally acquire a respectable college degree. Every time my successes are challenged, I have the natural mindset that I will work to success or to death. My listed achievement are a false representation of my wellbeing. In my mind, as soon as I find an obstacle I cannot overcome, I am no longer a functional-enough human that deserves to represent our species. I don't think death is a fair consequence anymore now that I have a job, but I can't shake the magnitude my responsibilities off my mind. Failure hurts. Trying again doesn't come without a cost. I'm almost certain I will die early from stress related disease or suicide. I just hope I do something useful before that happens. I have personally found that men are more likely to care about the wellbeing of a large group of people, while women focus more on the few people closest to themselves. Everyone says we should end war, but few people put in any effort with the intention of contributing to global human wellness. If I could find just a single woman who actually takes action to help people on a global scale, I just might consider marriage in my life.
Great post
... But they are trying to save the world by _smashing the patriarchy._ 😅
@@andrewsmith3257not really
So you're just a slave for other people
there are plenty of women interested in and working on improving the world. making generalisations and having negative expectations of any group, will mean you don't see the opposite of what you want to believe. What you see in the world won't change until you change your mind, which I doubt you will, but just know that you are the one projecting your expectations on others. I would highly recommend finding a good and affordable therapist to work through some of your hangups, if you want to make any progress. You seem to have some common cognitive distortions, which are making your life harder than it needs to be. I say this as someone that was chronically depressed for 20+ of my life, since childhood, and someone that had massive anger towards the world and the opposite gender. you have to change your outlook, and allow yourself to see good in yourself and others, if you want anything to be different. I wish you good luck.
I also love the sublte misandry here. Both of these men point out dozens of things women have and do that is positive traits that are UNIQUE TO WOMEN. Yet all of the traits that are unique to men we point to here are NEGATIVE traits. They literally do this all the time.
Hahahaha… your poor thing!
Mimimi
They're trying to make sure they aren't called misogynistic. And they have listed positive traits of masculinity. Heck, Richard Reeves said his wife complained he wasn't being masculine enough.
“Are men necessary?” YES! Men have their own unique energy that keeps humanity in balance. We need them more than ever. I feel truly blessed to have had many wonderful men in my life, as friends, family, and coworkers❤
Is that even a question? 98% of everything that surrounds you has been created or constructed by men.
The fact that people really ask this question blows my fucking mind.
‘Are men necessary “ is the dumbest question ever asked and doesn’t even deserve and answer.
@@danielkeenan1984 the widespread phenomena of it even being asked is an omen in and of itself
@@Luke_MoonWalker Oh well… you may have built the cities but without women giving birth to builders there wouldn’t be much to brag about!
Yeah. Women don't need men but my ex-wife who had an affair and then married the doctor she had it with is still more than happy to keep taking my check every month.
haha indeed
I've seen this situation all too much. Your hard earned money is just her extra spending cash for purses etc
She married a doctor and still got money from you? Even though alimony ends when you remarry?
Why are you sending a check unless there are children involved?
This episode is a revelation for me as a woman. I think it will really improve my marriage.
Yeah you modern ladies are basically children all the way through. Zero understanding of men or the world around you. Your lives are nerfed all the way through.
Good for you! While society is crumbling, you will be happy last spectator!
Don’t divorce him if you don’t feel justified or your just feeling different
I think the fail of this whole conversation is that they don't bring up hypergamy. It answers many of these questions like polygamy, women desire marrage less and rates declining, women initiating divorce, etc, etc.
Yes, as there is more men falling behind the bigger this trend is going to be.
Women divorce men that don't love them the way they need to be loved. Women don't marry men they see as useless. Both men and women are hypergamous. Hypergamy is not money. It's what is the best trait for genetic survival. For some women that's love and many will give up money for a loving relationship. You're just not genetically viable on multiple levels - it's not just money.
No. Women now have greatly increased access to the finances and labour of men without giving the hitherto expected things in return - companionship, support, happy family life. A woman can discard her man at will and the courts will give her half of his assets and put him in indentured servitude to her for the rest of his life. Meanwhile, the man receives nothing in return: no female companionship, no family life, no real relationship with his own children. Men aren't stupid and can see this is a terrible deal. But in the absence of that age-old partnership between man and wife, it's difficult for men to find a role and purpose in life, hence all the problems.
Society was built to house and sustain women and children safely. Not for men to express their traits of prowess.
Leave no place for the average man in society and they will tear it down, after all they built it and maintain it.
@@levansegnaro4637they need to naw on sheet metal 🤷🏾♀️
Useful and insightful discussion. Thank you both.
Wowww fabulous discussion! I have been watching lots of Richard Reeves's interview and you really brought a new side to the discussion with your questions!
“The triangle of biology, culture and the individual.” Reasonable. Very refreshing.
What about all the statistics on single mother homes and how boys tend to not finish school, get into trouble ext... all kids need both!💯
Most of those statistics are made up by a right wing media personality. What kids need is stability. That is easier with a two parent house hold. The key is two parents. It doesn't have to be man. It is the stability that children crave. Crave may be the wrong word. For them to be whole they need stability. The father meme was made up to frightened people about lesbian couples raising boys. The problem is the stats on that prove the anti lesbian thing was completely wrong.
Great conversation. So true, and so not talked about in the mainstream.
Saying humanity is polygamous is very misleading. By our own nature, we are monogamous. Jealousy is just one part that shows it. But even polygamy behaves like monogamy - most polygamy is a wife and concubines, one preferred over the others. If we count that arrangement as polygamy, we should also include today's arrangements as it too, meaning more than half of people today are polygamous for having more than one sexual partner (marriage has always been directly tied to sex until recently) and polygamous for divorcing.
"Saying humanity is polygamous is very misleading." Agreed, what they state here makes no sense when I look back at my dating history. Most of the women i was with were protective of me (slightly jelous) while others were really jelous and would go through my phone often. Why would someone do this if they are only looking for the top man? im not the top man, she could certainly do better if she were willing to be wife 2 or 5 from some rich guy. A lot of what is in the red pill is complete bullshit, there is some truth to what they state but having to sift through the demoralizing falsities is taxing.
I find poly are usually younger women still getting the Heaux phase out of the system.
What he said was .. the data we have available shows .. that's an interesting observation .. what does it mean, how is that possibly true? Some questions to pursue? Nah let's just declare it bs based on our anecdotal experience! Wow, brilliant, how can I follow you? I think you should lead.
@@chrisfreebairn870 It s not anecdotal experience... just fucking google it, and you would know he is of the mark here, the truth is much more complex. Also monogamy was around in societies as the norm way before Christianity was ever a thing. Ancient Greece and Rome and the Hitites and such... are good examples of that.
You misunderstand. Men seek women, woman can live with or without a man but will do a lot for their children. So a woman can have a poor abusive man or a rich abusive man too busy to meet out abuse and even when he has time, has multiple women to meet it out against. At the same time one woman is scrounging for food to feed her children, the second, she has a roof, maybe servants and security. For men, having access to multiple women is ideal, even if she's not pretty, you don't like her personality etc. Just having sexual access does q lot for the ego. And most polygnous men have a 'favourite' wife. So in a world where love doesn't matter polygamy wins, every time.
How many girls get told “girl power” and “you go girl” and how many boys hear the equivalent growing up? And through their teens? And as adults? Just a thought
While simultaneously hearing society and women say I don't need a man, men are trash, getting divorced raped, men are the cause of all the problems in the world, etc.
Lol as a white person no one has to tell us “white power” because it’s obvious
Men never receive praise and compliments. When we do we are truly perplexed.
Also the whole "black power" movement, lmao. Imagine if there were a "white power" movement lmao. For the record I think some of the black empowerment movement is good, like the valuing financial literacy part, it's just this isn't really mainstream, most of the mainstream stuff is just racist anti white propaganda.
Yah the Boysss I say that all the time playing games 😂
My dad has always been more loving, supportive and responsible than my mother who has never let me finish a sentence in my life.
Yes that is very relatable.
change your mom 😆🤣
My dad wasn't supportive of me that much, and my mom still won't allow me to finish a sentence. My dad passed away in 2012, but mom is still going. At 84 years of age she still drives and does everything she use to do although she does it slower. The difference between my dad and mom was that my mom was involved heavily in her church while my dad almost never went to church. My dad always seemed to want to wander and my mom was very stressed over it when she was younger. As you might imagine, they divorced later and each remarried, but by then, I was grown and out of the house. It's funny how our parents seem to shape us in ways we don't spend a lot of time thinking about.
This is absolutely insightful and informative! Thank you!
Amazing interview! Fireworks of ideas sparking in my brain and in next conversations. Thank you!
The fact that anyone is seriously asking "Are men necessary?" Shows just how delusional our world has become.
This vid will be amazing, looking forward to watching it. 🔥
LOVED that he brought up Scouting. As I was watching I was reflecting on my own experiences in Scouts as coming of age moments.
Tom: I NEEDED to progress through a scarification ritual of my choosing to show MYSELF that life's now different, I'm married, and there's no turning back. Richard: Cub Scouts.
Most of the men that survived the Titanic were the crew manning the lifeboats. The only reason they survived was because they were needed there.
58:08 We've completely dropped the ball on "giving the benefit of the doubt". A person who misinterprets him saying men "need to be more aggressive" as something negative should have a moment with themselves to think about why they instantly put a bad intentioned connotation on it. I don't believe that a person saying a statement should be held responsible for literally every negative way it can be interpreted, but that seems to be the hot thing to do nowadays.
Has nothing to do with the statement but the Framing/Lense of Richard. "Angry man is Bad and Dangerous", for women/society but more importantly bad for book sales hahahaha
@@willzill538 yes, & plenty of ppl reacting badly & immediately is what drives the commercial outcome.
@@willzill538 He demonstrates that he has no clue what he is talking about when he says that Anger is bad, but i also stopped taking what he says seriously when he said feminism = good at that point we are done talking about objective reality and enter into his narcsisstic fantasies and delusions.
@@upsetforever7643 In many places, it's a crime to yell at your partner. Crying is good and therapeutic, and men should do it more often. This being dogma among psychologists is why I can't get help through psychotherapy.
I’ll never understand this framing. Who has it worse, one group of 4 billion human beings who happen to be female, or one group of 4 billion human beings who happen to be male? How can you lump 4 billion people into a single generalised group?
iron John Robert Bly, this speaks of the metaphoric and practical rituals for boys to become men
As a mother of seven sons I can unequivocally say- we are definitely in a dramatic moment in history where our boys don’t know how to be boys. Masculinity has been given a negative and toxic connotation. Girls get celebrated for every minor thing and boys get punished for minor things. Boys being boys has become a bad thing. If the feminist movement was seeking equality, it has not been accomplished. It is rapidly becoming advantageous to be a woman and confusing to know how to be a good man. In my career as a writer I literally will get selected ahead of men because producers are looking up tick that “equality” box. Real equality will only be achieved when gender has nothing to do with our choices at all.
Wait unti multiple generations of boys have to grow up to be adults that have been shunned for being a gender. We're in for very hard societal time
That was very well said. It means a lot that there are level headed women like you, who see the huge disconnect between the professed aims of feminism and what is actually happening in our society. The professed aim of feminism was to live in a more meritocratic society, where women are valued for their accomplishments, without regard to their gender. Instead, women are valued for their gender, and their efforts are deemed superior as a result of their gender.
Totally agree: as a woman and as a mother of a son. This development emasculated not only boys, it made women drastically less feminine, which is sad. BTW, I’m a structural engineer and have a successful and well compensated career in construction. Never used my “minority” status-never had the need. Let boys be strong men, and let girls be strong in their softness.
Oh give me a break! Men are still raping girls and being let off because it would be “wrong to ruin his life over this”. The impact to women is unimportant. This backlash against women getting equality is some of the biggest bullshit I’ve ever seen.
As a woman (no sons, but four brothers) I agree 100%. Also, best of luck with seven sons! Quite the blessing
A great topic and fantastic points made.
Very nice interview. Was glued to every word.
I love how open these guys are about their lives
Sorry but this can’t be a honest conversation without mentioning welfare and the fact males don’t like to seek help psychologically. And one man lives in bubble and I respect Tom but let’s be honest he lives a specific type of world in america most can’t relate too and the other man is a older man who just looks at statistics While men don’t report there troubles the stats are flawed Except for education But no one mentions the pressure and distractions young men are going threw
He did, though. It's just not the focus of the video.
It not just young men anymore either.
This is quite true
Great conversation 👌🏻
I remember when I was in High School in 1970, feeling depressed because there was so much propaganda in history class and women's liberation being taught that women were victims and men were bad.
Thank you for having this vulnerable conversation. It was needed.
The unusual equality of women ends, when the military stops working and civilization collapses. All discussions will end very quickly.
The statement is manifestation of toxic femininity. While men still allow this experiment to run, at the moment it becomes the suicide, it will be stopped. The actual problem is that females just ride along and don’t take responsibility for their own bad behavior or bad behavior of their sisters. Boys WILL burn the village and men will not stop it. So, why females don’t even attempt to stop it?
Women have to start paying for their mistakes or we’ll continue living in clown world
It's too late for conversations to matter. Things are going to get really bad; the consequences haven't even started to manifest.
It’s never going back to the way things were. Time to redefine all these ‘roles’ or just keep separating
I wouldnt put my hands in the fire for it. probably not, but we never know, culture changes and shifts all the time, and cultures get replaced all the time historically. We just assuming it is ours is the better one, or that is ours that going to do the replacing, and become dominant... we actually dont know that.
It will soon and it will be fun to watch :-)
"Time to redefine all these ‘roles’" redefine roles? what that even mean, just live your live and wait for some society approval?
@@piureczko Yea i like gore and raw chaos as well :D
No, it won't be a separation. It will be destruction.
The only thing missing is the blue hair. 😞. This is the most depressing conversation I've heard yet. "Where have all the men gone?" only means anything when the electricity stops. This is just a self-deletion buffet.
I’m a new sub. Loving your channel 👌
"Individualism" isn't the same as egoism. It means the wants and needs of each individual are what matters, not only your own. It doesn't mean you won't care about other people, just that you care about them individually, not as a group.
I reject this “taking the brakes off” characterization vehemently. First, what held women back was cultural - meaning it was men and women not encouraging their daughters to pursue careers. Today’s society has completely tilted in favor of women. It’s parents, it’s K-12 educators, it’s academia, it’s tax law, it’s family court, it’s homeless shelters and social programs, it’s food stamps, it’s our media landscape, it’s advertising, it’s corporate HR, it’s entertainment, it’s sports, it’s our military. Our entire civilization is riven with female encouragement and preference today. I was going to buy and read this guy’s book, but after listening to this interview, I realized that his views are not part of the solution. He’s just making the book promotion tour annd has to seem more evenly balanced. The problem today isn’t evenly balanced. I’m waiting for somebody to report the way things really are, but nobody puts it all together accurately. Because, after all, women read more books.
Women weren't allowed to go to Harvard untill the 1960s. Women weren't allowed to have bank accounts or get loans till the 1960s. Women weren't allowed to go to the doctors on their own untill the 1960s. Schools for these reasons would gear women to become house ornaments from a young age as they'd need to be truly exceptional to make it in a world that had laws making it hard for them to be independent. Now we have equality law where women have the same life opportunities as men. Teachers now see value in giving girls the same time and resource as boys. That's what they mean by taking off the breaks.
@@steph6109 No, schools give girls MORE time and resource. That’s why they get better grades, despite IQ parity. Boys are persona non grata in public schools, easily slipping through the cracks of a system laser-focused on girls. Girls get more scholarships, college degrees and tax breaks on starting businesses. It’s why boys struggle in reading and writing, and account for the vast majority of high school dropouts, suicides, criminal behavior and homelessness. And the vast majority of shelters are for women. It’s astonishing how young people use their distorted views of history to justify excesses of the present. But next time you try it, be sure you aren’t talking to someone who lived through those times. “Not allowed” by whom? My mother had a career in the mid-1940s and, magically, managed to drive to the doctor by herself without ending up in jail. The point you’re making I actually agree with - always have. Everybody should have equal opportunity to succeed in this country. But that’s not what we have now. Remember that for every person who is given a preference, someone else is denied basic equality.
@@graymatters7584 Girls have better grades because they spend more time studying and doing their homework. Girls raised their hands more to ask questions and ask teachers for help more if they struggle because unlike boys, they have no fear of apparent weakness. That is the reason why girls perform better at school, as well as girls being more mature in the school years. This is not a systematic oppression like men were doing to women in the past at all, not even remotely close.
No matter how much more money your wife makes, never take on the role of the primary caregiver as a man, period!
Hope this brings to mind how dangerous policies can be if they're pushed for political correctness rather than the good of a country.
I've experienced a LOT more repression from toxic alpha male "political correctness" than any other cultural trend. It is hilarious how these men bemoaning diminishing patriarchy are whining about being victims. It's actually pretty pathetic. Man up!
@@flickwtchr radfems like you don't understand society. it's not a patriarchy, it's a monarchy and they choose the leaders via male preference so it is usually headed by a patriarch, but patriarchy as you know it doesn't exist and it never really did, not in the way you imagine it. It was all about ecological pressures, and not about treating men better.
@@Pistolita221 Or women worse plus the whole concept of slavery and owning another human came as economic concept specifically the loan repayment if feminists bothered to read a book that is not fantastical delusions of their cult members they would known this, i'm glad that feminism lasted for so long it has survived enough to become a villain with any good intentions of the first wave (if there were any i'm doubting that as well at this point) are taken out by the second, third...etc
@@upsetforever7643 imo the 2nd wave was the best wave of feminism. First wave had actually violent radicals, 2nd wave got a lot of stuff done and wasn't violent, and 3rd/4th wave are pretty much just anti-male for the most part.
@@Pistolita221 First one had casus belli the second and all the other ones after first did not, all the things "second wave" was "fighting" for already existed in law what they wanted were privileges not equality they are the creators of the entitlement in third, fourth,...etc waves the very designers of this era stupid illiterates with no capacity for reason, and critical thinking that think they are smart, well read, rational critical thinkers, pretentious good for nothings that deserve the fate they are going to get, and if you ask me i think they got off too easy.
Something I've noticed, as someone who finished college at 36. College grads tend (like these men) to see college as an essential step to full adulthood and decent earnings. Those ideas are not true. Oil riggers, truck drivers, plumbers, electricians and carpenters (among others) earn far above the median income. None require college. Women today expect their men to earn more than the women do. In recent polls, 1.5 times as much. When most women weren't working, this was not an issue. Now that more women graduate from college, fewer men will fit that criterion alone. College graduates also expect potential mates to be white collar, so those wealthy plumbers and oil riggers can forget it. Another interesting thing is, most women now also expect men to be over 6 feet tall. Last I checked, that was only about 15% of all men. If you combine all these standards, we end up somewhat less than 5% of the men that women even would consider. That's without even thinking about any emotional connections. Add to that, over 70% of American women are overweight or obese. 40% of all children are born to unwed mothers. 28 is the average age of first marriage for American women and initial loss of virginity is before 18, which implies around 10+ years (on average) of promiscuous behsvior. Studies say women admit to 6 lifetime sex partners on average (which probably means 18 in reality). Thus: About 1 in 20 men is acceptable to most women. About 1 in between 3 and 10 women is acceptable to most men. Result: most men realize that women really don't want them and odds are, even if they did, the women would probably cheat and eventually divorce them and take everything they had. A little math shows that college is expensive. It might eventually pay for itself, but there are no guarantees. More math shows that a single man can get by with far less than a single woman can and much less than a married couple can, not to mention kids. So, even if I earn half what I could as a college graduate, I still can end up with more at the end of the day than a typical married college professor. Without the nagging. And everything I have is MINE.
How many guys want a wife that goes toe to toe with them? There's the problem. Men think they're supposed to be in control and they freak out when they're wife doesn't let them.
Exactly!!
When you mean toe to toe, you mean controlling, nagging wife? yes men are not into that.
@@knightheaven8992 That is not what I mean. I mean you want to do something and you have to convince her not tell her. Most guys are too sensitive to convince. They need a passive woman that they can control. It seems like a boring life.
@@mikeoveli1028 Maybe when feminism is gone and stops turning women into caricature of men they invented maybe then we can have negotiations but as it stands these anti-social, promiscuous, angry, defiant contumacious, narcissistic/borderline psychopathic women are not interested in that.
I am unsure about this with aggressiveness. Men express it more physically and that is a more noticeable aggressiveness. Women express aggressiveness differently, less noticeable but it exist
Very Good conversation!!!
No way in hell i'll sacrafase myself for a todays boss bitch type of women, if shes given up her traditional roles, why do i must stay true to mine?
Exactly 💯
@1:14:00 - problem with this is why as a man would i sacrifice myself for someone who doesn't want/need or actively hates me?
You wouldn't, you shouldn't, don't do it, look harder, maybe be a better man & attract better women.
Everyone has their struggles in life. The issue i see and experience is if you're straight white male your voice is suppressed, it's not just a male thing. I see it in the workplace all the time and suicide numbers reflect men's struggles and how they struggle to find a voice. This doesn't mean other groups don't have challenges but this one is just swept under the carpet because men apparently have an advantage and have it easy. It's not easy like it's made out to be, everyone has problems.
today's narrative in western countries is 1) anti white racist 2) misandric. It's specifically against what you wrote: "straight white males." That's the reality.
Nobody cares about us men so we learn to take care of ourselves and often love and die alone unfortunately. This is Not what God intended when he created a woman. 🙏 God help us so that men and women can once again connect all of them as you intended. Men and women need each other that's how we're created. Yin and yang ☯️
I'm a decade older than a half century who has had many jobs, and professional roles, and have never experienced what you are talking about. The most repression I've experienced in my life has been at the hands of toxic alpha males, every single time.
@@flickwtchr Things have changed
@@flickwtchr sheltered, in a way
Great topic , love it. Great person. ❤❤
Truth is, men around the world have succeeded at their role so much that they almost don't even have to do it anymore. When you can build a society where the average citizen has no need to concern themselves with a broad takeover or mass proliferate of violence, yeah women do fine on their own. It really was that, to act as that wall or barrier between the dangerous outside world and your family. That is what men were, for the longest time, that included work. Now that society has progressed past that need, the thing men literally evolved to do, isn't immediately super important.
Unless you are fabulously wealthy - than living life as a man is no treat ! - Men have EGOS TO defend - Men run governments and militarys - Men control banks - Men have to be confident and resilient - The list is endless / Who needs the headache of a spouse on top of everything.. Its become out of reach - and too expensive for most men - its no wonder they're depressed 😢6
All the aspects on men you described are ones wealthy enough to afford a wife. Especially the bankers
Also access to sex is for most men only available through relationship. Women can have it all day all year long.
Most women dont have sex on their brain.
I loved listening to the philosophy behind this topic.
married men are more productive and incentiviced to provide
id agrue men have occupied the bottom and top of the status through history and women have always been protected and looked after.
As someone with a 19 month old boy child I can tell you he is so different to girls his age, he's only just started daycare in the last three weeks, there's no violence in the home, there's no spanking etc and he doesn't watch TV really- miss Rachel if anything but he's not interested, but he slaps and kicks and hits and plays so differently to our friends kids with girls. He is more "violent" and he definitely hasn't been "taught" it, not even in a playful way- my husband and I don't play hit each other or him or anything ever. I even asked my husband how he learned to "hit like that" - we don't know. He's not violent all the time at all, but maybe three times a week wheb he's very frustrated about something he expresses it very physically. Our friends have said compared to other boys he is very well natured so I'm like... wtf. Hahahaha. Ah gosh, I do thunk there is a lot of "nature" in this age, but I have started seeing in other kids the "nurture" sode of things coming out amongst the boys below the age of 2. Like at a birthday party a few months ago, was the forst time ice really seen my kids in comparison so other kids his age- it was really eye opening- someone was there with a one year old boy the same age as our kid, our boy whod been "training" for a baby brother (we were just showing him with doll to touch softly and give a kiss on the head not on the mouth, and hiw to hug nicely and all that stuff befor baby came(, tried to hug and kiss another little boy there who was very socially awkward and defensive and sulky almost- but when that father saw my 1 year old trying to hug his one year old who was trying to hug back- he got up and got all agressive screaming "stop that! Thats gay thats gay!!!".... everyone kind of just looked around like WTF they're ONE they don't even know anything about anything. But anyway, his kid is now very stand offish- very agressive, very quiet and sulky and a bit antisocial. I don't know. All I'm saying is that there's definitely a bit of both, my child is considered a failry gentke boy for a boy- but he is far more "violent" and physically expressive than any of the girls his age, but he's also not the most agressive boy i have seen.
boys tend to be more physically expressive than girls. imo, the best way to deal with it is to encourage them to find a healthy outlet and learn proper discipline (which is a very difficult/impossible thing to teach, breathing exercises are good start, though), because repression is very rarely ideal.
@@Pistolita221He said in the video boys are like dogs, you gotta take them outside to run out their energy.
I haven't watched the video yet, however I'm VERY surprised about the comment section, it's unexpectedly peaceful and mindful. My surprise about this also speaks for itself, I guess. 😅
Richard is a great advocate.
@@nyw4764 I feel so sorry for you
@Ny W you have no idea what tossing salads means do you? 😂😂😂
@Ny W I'd love to hear your description of how patriarchy flooded the world with unnecessary men; kinda sounds like a total refutation of biology to me; maybe a reverse China one child policy will sort it - you know, male infanticide. Looking forward to your response ........
@@stacyliddell5038 me neither, assuning it's not get back in the kitchen - what does it mean?
Great show
women typically work outside the home and still do more housework and childcare
that's your takeaway? whatabout...
Liberating women… Now a woman HAS to work for the average family to afford the same average lifestyle of the past. And no, I’m not seeing average young women or men being single and happily financially secure. So many are up to their eyeballs in debt, own nothing, and are living paycheck to paycheck with roommates or at home. So even though women can get their own check, it’s on average not enough to afford a legitimately comfortable lifestyle. Everything has increased in cost to negate their paycheck and has increased the pressure on both single men and women to afford things that are now priced according to the new norm that families now are expected to have both the man and woman working. I am not against women working, but the way it’s come about, and the result, isn’t what I call a liberation. I feel like women now have merely inherited the same burden as men have bore for centuries, which is this expectation that they are to grow up and work just the same.
Your entire reply is based on establishment indoctrination. The system programs everyone to be system slaves. The few that rebel and find their own way are the ones who are happiest and enjoy the most success. The vast majority simply go along with the herd because it is easier and they are heavily programmed to comply & conform. Any guy can self generate the income he needs to live the life he wants- if he has the courage to get started and is ready to put in the work. The guys that choose the "easy" path end up miserable, broke and without freedom or options.
You are right, and I'm pretty sure the feminist movement was funded for women to get into the work force because of inflation
Amen 🙏
Am a woman. Not true. I own my home and live very well single.
@@jfaustin1742 That's the problem. Too many women want what you got instead of a family. But most women and men would be much happier in a successful relationship and family. But instead it's like everyone just lives and dies alone now. As a man who has always wanted a family and had one in the past this is very upsetting and challenging to even find a partner with all these collage educated masculine women out here today. Those in long term relationships also tend to live healthier and longer God help us. 🙏
Anyone that says "slow down so I can lead" does not understand optimization. Leaders should be chosen organically, by just the nature of the fact that the person who does it best is the person who leads.
Sure, but that organic process is a battle, & those that say this are battling to get there too, using whatever power levers they have - leadership is politics, otherwise the brutes would lead; one needs supporters to lead, & to sustain them to continue to lead .. ie politics. In social higher animals leadership is politics.
And as for optimisation .. that's a theoretical economic concept, useful as a thinking or verbal tool, not so much as a descriptor of nature. Is it optimal for the giraffes vagus nerve to be 10 M long? No; it just happens that in fish that nerve goes under the aorta .. natural systems make do with what they start with; & they don't make the best, they make something that works well enough to get through the day, then the next day; over time that creates what looks optimal, but time is a bitch, things change .. anaerobes optimised, until algae, dinosaurs, until .. boom, ... Nature is more of a shotgun than a sniper.
This ommits the very importance of innate biological influemces on pair bonding. Social constructs dont trump reality
I'm listening to two weak men having a conversation. Men fare worse after divorce? Get government and the divorce industry out of people's relationships and then reevaluate.
Why do we respect women's choices to earn or stay home? Yet, we do not respect men's choices to work or stay home? We have a very limited, archaic and stereotyped view of men that pigeonholes men into being some superman 24:53
I want to have a conversation about sex differences around psychological manipulation. We hear all the time that men are more violent - true for sure. Are women more psychologically and emotionally manipulative? I think so. I think that it show up at a very early age as girls express distress way more than boys do, and it carries on from there.
Yelling is considered abuse. Crying, no matter the cause or motivation, is seen as good and useful. That says a lot about whose behaviors are more acceptable.
Before recently, the idea of people being happily not married was ludicrous. Women especially, a significant percentage, adopt the ideology of, I can make a life without a man.
this man is so mature and well adjusted, I wish he were my dad lol. actually, the way they both talk about their wives is so heart warming. there is hope
After listening to this, it seems clear that men overall has it overwhelming worse than women
What if i told you, they always had?
As a male, I have never been interested in marriage. Despite having high academic achievement and work ethic, I have been unemployed for the majority of my life. I have also been exposed to numerous chemicals. I have also been treated by management as their # who deserves substandard pay and workplace abuse. So, I do not agree that having a business degree is a value to society. The CEO learns how to hire a # or a @. The @# could be like me, a white male, with 9+ years of college training and five more years on-the-job training, who never can earn much more than a minimum wage. Eventually, because of the abuse of corporate leadership, since I am their @#, I was poisoned, severely sleep deprived, and eventually won a disability award, instead of working less than 40 hours a week. The fact that I was poisoned was changed by the control of the corporation to some sort of psychological issue by force of law (another aspect of corporate abuse under the control of the CEO). So the value of a redistribution of wealth would be that the general public could have more influence on how they work and how health issues are evaluated and treated. One of my achievements is developing so many documented complaints against the corporation that they had to pay millions and millions of dollars in legal fees while simultaneously bankrupting my parent's family estate. This general trend is affecting all of society and all professions as corporations are trying to kill the public and make them unemployed. Of course, if I ran my own corporation, I could not be fired. I could not post my comments using the proper discriminatory words as You Tube is actively blocking free speech. I decided to write a book about my experience using highly elevated language to describe corporate and educational incompetence, abuse, fraud and ongoing intentional discrimination.
Society isn't in men's favour, you just need to look at the statistics and all the men bashing online, and on the media.
“We don’t need to suppress male agency, to support female agency.” YES!!!!!!
if you can not start a living and have family in a society as a postman, or bar tender that sociaty will collapse big time
23:20 Maybe that is because women, society and the media is calling them that all the time 24/7 and blame them for everything? And maybe that is why they checked out from society and are now in games instead where they are not contantly blamed, put down, accused of things they did not do and cannot help, called names and harassed.
Glad the guest told the story about her wife telling him to be more masculine, because listening to him up until that point, was dead sure she was cheating on him. Might still be, but at least its not a nailed on certainty.
Tom is brilliant - He has great values ❤
this discussion is hilarious, most of the time richard is stating that "women don't need men" anymore. I mean i guess they don't given modern feminism and the hate i see online from the opposite sex seems like that is the message. but with rates of happiness going down for women on average, and the need of women from men for a purpose wouldnt it be better for the sexes to gettogether? instead of constantly being at eachothers throats and looking at one another as mere disposable commodities.
He is saying that, that modern society does now provide most of what older society's needed men for, with the exception of the male input in child rearing - the state can't do that very well. What he is saying is that culture must evolve to deal with the fact that men are not as necessary as they once were, that this is one of the key roles of culture, but that the politicization of this cultural evolution as a war is a dangerous thing, bc it is blocking the evolution of positive solutions for the dispirited male problem. If one does the math, it's pretty easy to show that without the male contribution to making stuff, keeping stuff working & paying taxes, a very large portion of the welfare state which makes men superfluous, would rapidly eat the economy. The superfluous male concept is a very very narrow analysis, it's the type of total bs that highly educated & powerful women might propose. How in any way can it be taken seriously? This bs anti male culture just needs to take a reality pill, to see what is real & stop trashing the male contribution. It's still there, it's just being trashed bc women think they have to defeat men to get a fair shot; a not unreasonable idea, given the resistance to them getting a fair shot. That defeating men is not a good strategy, if it also demoralises & kills our sons, is becoming apparent. That will drive cultural change, if it is allowed to occur. This is why the culture war needs to be seen to be very dangerous if the politicians are allowed to weaponise it. But it is a war, in the sense that positive definitions of progress must be hashed out; and a bunch of issues are being thrown into this hot pot, not least of which is broad dissatisfaction with the power balance - between capital & labor, which equates to income & educational disparity, hence the attack on institutions, on elites etc; these are just proxies of power. This is what tRump & De Santis have figured out & weaponised; that 'the status quo is just not fair' is a powerful feeling in society, hence a political force that can be harnessed; trumps whining can be reduced to - "It's just not fair to we little ppl" - see how he strives to make the threat about everyone, not just him, that's to disguise that he's not one of them, but represents them. In this sense the far left is on the same team, fighting the same battle, using the same tactics; they battle powerlessness too, & trash anything that represents the forces they see as responsible for that - racism sexism, homophobia, patriarchy etc. The battle is about a fair share of the spoils of success. In the past, after a battle, there'd be booty - the spoils of war; if powerful groups that helped win the battle didn't get a fair share of the spoils .. if they were will armed & organised they threatened havoc, & got their share; new conflicts erupted as powerful groups disputed the sharing formula. Globalisation is the bogey man - why? Because it's delivered great wealth to some & deprived millions of the decent life they had before. It's that simple. It is about power, the power to get a fair share of the spoils of success. And the wise old model of 'share lest there be revolution' seems unlearned.
@@martinpatrick8964 point is it is "technically" possible now
Yeah the plot twist of all of this, is that women do need men, and men do also need other men, and i was going to say society... but not really it is more like Civilization itself needs men. Either men are doing the mad max thing or just retreating, the end result is similar.
'the woman's movement dodges a bullet by not pathologizing motherhood' but they did. what is wrong with this guy?
Women, for the most part, have hypergamous aspirations. They prefer to marry or partner with men who have equal or better educational attainment and income relative to themselves. They reject men, for the most part, who score below them in these areas. So it behooves women to root for the success of men because if men continue on this path, women will find fewer and fewer of them suitable for long term relationships. The end result is not only an epidemic of loneliness for men, but an epidemic of loneliness for women as well. Additionally, with a smaller dating pool, the shrinking number of men who meet this hypergamous standard will be able to date multiple women and women will have to be content with sharing a guy. Essentially, what you will see if this trajectory continues is the modern revival of harems or polygamy.
Sharing? That word implies ownership. And I refuse to ascribe to the idea of owning my partner. I see my partner as a human, with needs and wants that at times might be removed from my needs and wants and here is where agency comes into play.
@@lidiarona4335 So you do not value monogamy?
@@alphacause I do not value being considered chattel
@@lidiarona4335 How is expecting monogamy from your partner demeaning?
@@alphacause you don't get the point.
Anyone who has ever been a carer for a child knows it more dangerous than hunting. You're responsible for multiple lives. It doesn't even compare.
The issue is not gender equality ( which is a lie. There's nothing equal about the 2 genders, polarity says otherwise) But we are equally important and complement each other. The problem is that feminism teaches that empowerment equals needing no man. That way of thinking is extremely toxic for family formation. No man, no matter how rich and powerful, will never say he needs no woman. That's crazy and men within reach will call him out on his delusional and toxic thinking. Women don't call this out.
How is women being able to feed themselves and their children (something that every female creatures on this earth is biologically wired to do) toxic? Men want us to need them so bad, the things they did out of this insecurity is unacceptable. Men should work more at being wanted instead of needed. My partner is someone that I want in my life, not that I need to survive. Just like when children grow up, they don't need their parents anymore, but they still want to be around their parents and love them. Simple.
“Thanks men, but we got it from here” Holy fuck, that hit so hard I felt like I was dreaming of fighting Mike Tyson.
Except there is no thanks and more like resentment.
@@meowmix1569thanks for what? What our fathers did?
@@steph6109 yeah, nothing men every did was amazing and nothing women ever did was bad. You're mentally ill lol
well the issues is to many men have got the msg men are trash we dont need men and everything wrong in life is due to men when enough walk away self delete or push back in a violent way society will collapse and everyone will look to men to help provide protect and rebuild but i am not so sure men will answer the calls
so steph when men follow the message we dont need men. We build the world everyone lives in making the economy run you know the oil rigs keeping the power plants on making sure you have running water and food in the store what do you think happens to your world without men?
As an entrepreneur.. I'm halfway and I think he has referred to himself as one at least 5 times now. That's odd to me. I wonder what he thinks that means and especially in the context of this discussion. I have a business.. I don't call myself anything except a guy with a business. At the same time I am an employee to a different business. They are not the same though both can be enjoyable and a pain in the same day (or hour). There seem to be a % of people in which the word entrepreneur has a meaning to them that I cannot grasp. I personally think it's a need to feel special (or ego). If it isn't then it has not been explained well to me why that word seems so important to them.
23:22 is where I start parting ways with Reeves. There is an abyss between "having a society that makes men feel obsolete" and having a society that made men obsolete. The background of the later one is plagued with exactly what created this existential resentment in men today: we were tools used to build a world that would set us aside at first chance. Anyone that has been paying close and honest attention to these conversations since 2014 is extremely likely to agree. I think that's why the collapse of society has specifically become prevalent in the imaginations of conservative men. That's the way they are rationalizing their resentment. Edit: On the whole "everyone stop so I can lead". They are very clearly speaking in the same terms as Jordan Peterson and the non-moronic men of the Manosphere. This is terrifying because all they are doing is saying the same things in the most politically correct way possible. They are making subliminal accusations and are generating weird ideas. For example: Reeves says there is no need to stop male agency in order to empower female agency, but that is exactly how things happened. If it isn't necessary, why did it happen that way? Are all these Camille Paglia and Janice Fiamengo type of characters on the spot when they say feminism is plagued by a pathological hate for men? If that's not the case, dudes like Reeves need to explain why things happened the way the have and make a point to save feminism from this verdict. It's hard to not make this connection.
Good conversation and some observations. Joseph Cambell bottom line was "Find your bliss.". Jesus said " Don't Judge" "know thy self" yes as we are growing up, we ask ourselves how do we fit it. How can I get my needs met, in a positive way for all people involved. Who am I, why am I here. The Bottom line for me is" Do I love myself" and understand the world we live in. What can I do in my world, natural or positive "Do no harm or as little as I am aware "
An interesting question is: Can modern society be sustained with polygyny? The problem about polygyny is that tte surplus men have no incentive to contribute to society. Thus women will need to keep all aspects of society running together with the minority of “lucky” men. Yet if becoming a man is something men need to meticulously socialized into boys, will that be possible with fewever men being part of society? I think we’re going to realize that parting with monogamy will be way more detrimental than we can imagine.
What a beautiful and open conversation between to heart-centered and empowered men. Yes! I am tired of “men bashing”. Yes, we need men, men offer so much. I appreciate their often more simple and goal-oriented ways, and innate need to provide and protect.
To be fair, the point of view Richard puts forward is very biased. You may not see it because bias is gynocentric.
Lala that's great but unfortunately until the majority feel that way society will continue to collapse. I don't get why men's rights are irrelevant but women can have an onlyfans and 47 sex toys. It's not right for women to hate men, not value themselves, and reject someone on the same level. It's time men's needs become a priority and not just the top 20% of men. God fearing women are the best bet because they know what purpose God created them for and they still respect most men and generally respect themselves. 💯
It's over for men now
The conversation may already be too late. Men are either checking out of the work place to play video games, turn to drugs, turn to suicide, or leaving the country in hopes of finding a more traditional family opportunity. Women can not teach a boy how to be a responsible man. And many women haven't caught onto this yet. And since they are so distracted, it's doubtful many women ever will.
Thanks, but a lot of us have given up, and more are joining our ranks every day. I don't know why it's too much to ask that most women stop being so nasty towards us, but here we are. We got the message, and it's now on women to start checking other women in their nastiness if they ever want this to change.
Thanks for talking about it men are alone and we have to fight to get back on track and be able to be active and good parts of society, but as of now we have to work together and most of the times lonely but it is okay if it is this way believe most of us are on the same page and in the end you are not alone.
It's too late.
In 60s 60% of women worked, now 80% women work, average house price to income ratio in 60s was 5 now is 7. Housing prices go with disposable income.
Also with foreign buyers. Housing costs the most in international cities.
Let's put it in other words: Nowadays more woman has to work to earn a living ... Great achievement !