Why the Left's Vision of Equity Is Flawed | Douglas Murray
2024 ж. 28 Сәу.
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Douglas Murray explains the heart of the Meritocracy debate and why the Left's goals are fundamentally flawed. From the 2023 National Review Institute Ideas Summit in Washington D.C..
I can pretty easily imagine why tolerance has fallen out of favor. Give an inch, lose a mile. Tolerance only works if it's reciprocal. Otherwise, it's just one group taking advantage of another.
Exactly right… it always was
When someone says "tolerance has fallen out of favour", if from those saying they espouse tolerance, in recent years this has often be exposed as nothing more than telling others to shut-up and stop speaking out against things they see as wrong/obnoxious in other cultures or social 'groups' (for example the wearing of a piece of clothing, baring flesh, flying rainbow flags, or the Union Jack etc). Now that we have had the so-called Equality Act for some years, there is a very real risk in doing any speaking out, as some identified 'groups' feel themselves beyond reproach and protected in whatever they say or do in law if they can say they felt 'distressed' or 'threatened'. They are not actually protected from criticism of course, as it is perfectly legal to criticise anyone publicly, but the Police are often called during some petty grievance to make that judgement and pull the accused but often innocent person off the street to "keep the peace", much to the satisfaction of the extremist group or person who took the offence, but who typically isn't censured by the Police from shouting insults and threatening the person they accused with violence if s/he does not desist from their supposed "free-speech". It's not all the Police's fault that they do this. It's the truly asinine law that allows this to happen, although there are some rather eager Police officers only too willing to arrest those saying some very innocent and normal things, such as reading a passage from the Bible. Not wanting to be accused of not acting, the Police err on the side of the complainant, not the accused. Anything for an easy life, we may suppose. "Guilty until proven innocent" is how it tends to work, but that's not how the Police see it, because the Public Order Act allows Police intervention to prevent a civil disturbance or risk of harm escalating to actual harm. That they later discharge a person without any charge having been made is of no interest to them. They just acted in the easiest way they could: Remove the apparent cause of the trouble - the speaker. Some may say that might be fair enough where genuine danger to life or limb exists; the problem is that the bar for actual harm has now been brought too low, and can mean almost anything, including "distress". God forbid that any protected group should feel upset from what someone says about them, whether in private, on a twitr post, or in a physical public square! We simply can't have that, or debate such things in a civilized manner or even be allowed to apologise after a discussion, it seems. No. We have to up the aggression and accuse the other side of an illegal act. It's not allowed that a grievance be given a reasonable chance of redress to save us all some pain and a lot of cost to policing unnecessary accusations of harm. The MP's who made these laws could have written a sensible law that prevented accusations of harm being brought on ''gross offence' grounds. They chose not to, and I believe they did so for reasons of complete denial of their solemn responsibility to enact only laws which are equitable, and which advance the peaceful co-existence of the various peoples of our United Kingdom. The question is, for how much longer is it to be united, given the pressure to conform, sit down, and say nowt about the nonsense going on all around us, in the name of Tolerance?
spot on about the need for reciprocity. Unfortunately we are at a point where the aggrieved feel they are owed everything and owe nothing in return, not even simple gratitude or respect, to anyone else.
@@mobsurfnut2616 I agree with you completely. It is ludicrous what the law in the UK has done to a person's ability to speak honestly on certain subjects. The whole "words are violence" idea needs to be put to rest.
Honestly it's social media it profits from your engagement in intolerance
Tolerance has limits. That's why engineers measure it.
Or just that they've changed the meaning of tolerance so much that we don't agree with it anymore. I still believe in tolerance as it was defined in the 90's and 00's
@@Ryan-is-me Same thing with the word racism, so missused that it means nothing when people say it
@@Ryan-is-me That's just it, tolerance previously was essentially like with free speech, in that I may disagree with you entirely but defend your right to have that opinion. These days tolerance means subservience.
yeah tolerance for racists
@@junaydmalick807 good. Tolerance for all. You are not being asked to marry the racist or conduct business with them or attend barbecues with them? They are free to speak and you are free to respond or ignore. You falsely misunderstand that free speech means you are louder than them or deserve to be heard.
Murray is 100% right, here. Conservatives must become creative, offering answers and not just reactions.
Conservatives are just that ... for the most part they try to conserve the status quo or be reactionary / pull back advancements made by others. They don't do big changes and they're most certainly not creative. We must find a way to get rid of the left-right thinking and give power back to the reason and temperateness of the the people in the middle, the doubters who do not deal in absolute truths but rather know both sides can have valid points. I'm neither a conservative nor a leftist. I agree with both sides on some issues. I used to be agreeing with more points from the left than the right until 5-10 years ago, now I agree with more from the right ... I'd never call myself a conservative though because there also many aspects that are absolutely putrid about today's conservatives (Trump, the growing love for strong leaders / dictators etc. ... there are just so many foul, morally corrupt people in higher up position (just like on the left - there for different reasons though)). Common sense and the ability to question and if need be change one's own opinions on the basis of ever-changing circumstances is a virtue people must rediscover if we're ever to get out of the mess our democracies and political landscapes have become in the West.
become creative !? WOW. conservatives have been creative in their lies and murdering behavior for at least ten thousand years !
The truth can not be more creative than a lie. The truth can only be what it is, the lie can offer you everything. The Right and Conservatives have always offered people meaning and a way of life. But Christianity and Christian philosophy was rejected for the creative but bankrupt conceit of the Left. To the point that even uttering the words and making the suggestion invites ridicule. This despite the Right being able to spot ahead of time and call out in advance how and why this would all play out.
I think that the Solution (hard work) is so old and so simple that people just ignore it. Or it's drowned out by the screams of victimhood and entitlement.
@@garrardhinmokallister6433 Hard work achieves nothing when workers are starved. Conservative values must be destroyed for justice to win,globally.
Always love Douglas’s sarcasm. ‘We need more trans road-layers’. 😂
Females
Not sarcasm, we need diversity quotas for road laying and electrical pole maintenance.
@@Fashbinderyour trash
@@Fashbinderyeah we need more women to be coal miners
As someone who used to be a die-hard leftist. It is really sad to see the party I grew up a part of lose touch with reality so heavily.
Someone with dementia loses touch with reality. But they can not accept any statement that they have lost touch. They can maintain a very strong sense of what is real. Such as that they are Billionaires. But then who am I to know they are not? I only know what it is to not be a Billionaire.
Depends what you mean by the left
The left is a pretty wide spectrum. It should be noted that it's the extremes of both sides that you want to avoid
@@thirdgen377 Left wing politics is generally extreme.
@@christopherhitchens163 Depends on what you mean by Christopher Hitchens. Will the real CH speak? And the fake one stop baiting the hate?
I love that image of "equity." It inherintely assumes a supperiority/inferiority in one and the other. It doesn't help the little one grow to be bigger, it just always assumes the little one is always little.
If they all bought tickets they wouldn't have needed the boxes.
If that's how you percieve it, then you've entirely missed the point
There's more than one way to skin a cat, the ticket costs the same for all of them, that's what makes it equal.
The "little guy" is expected to stay small, so the left can exploit the victimhood in perpetuity.
The picture you are using is old news. People on the left don’t even like it because its like saying “being a minority is a disability”. If you are going to make a case against equity attack their current stance instead of this easy target.
Douglas Murray is an outstanding speaker.
Putting big government (including legacy media) and oligarchies in check, healing trauma, raising healthy families and educating mindful citizens seem to be what we should all strive for.
Yeah but who watches the watchers? That's been our biggest problem
Left and Right have different ideas of what is "big government". Mostly is big government something that resticts the rights and freedoms of citizens, or is big government something that restricts the rights and freedoms of large corporations?
I 100% agree. On "diversity bingo" I check off "woman" and "disabled", so some companies or HR people might feel obligated to hire me and I find that deeply insulting. I'm not hired over competition with men or other women because of my skills, education, intelligence, or experience - just because I have books and your workplace quota is low on that?! Oh yes, how "equal", how "loving". 😡
disabled?? A pharmacy chain in UK today altered their parking lot signs from "Disabled" spaces to "Less Able" spaces.
And due to the nonsense equity ideology pushed by institutions, minorities that received their position due to experience, capabilities, knowledge will need to deal with others thinking that they got the job because they ticked boxes relating to race, gender or disability. No thank you.
I see both sides. I haven't worked for about 20 years thanks to 'intersectional' disabilities, ie: I have lots... and my only hope of re- entering the workforce at near 50 is some sort of bridging or Custom Employment program. I know because I've tried everything else. My only skills are Lived Experience. So, I may take advantage of an Equity-type program at some point. It's a similar story for most of my cohort (autistics). The trouble with Meritocracy is that it isn't that great at measuring Merit. Companies are only just figuring this out and recruiting autistics like mad. Douglas is great but he's a bit simple sometimes. This isn't the first time I've proven him incorrect, slightly disingenuous and ill-informed. But it is my hobby.
@@GeraldSmallbear Lived experience can be a valuable skill to apply in certain fields, i.e. practical job experience or wisening up over overcoming hardship. This does not, however, supplant necessary skills as a GP/surgeon, pilot, language expert etc. Claiming meritocracy is poor at figuring out merit - giving no examples - and claiming that companies hire autistics like mad - i.e. you being unemployed for 20 years - I don't see you proving Murray wrong. Instead, you contradict yourself. Also, this comes across as rather self-congratulary.
Obliged not obligated.
Equality of outcome isn't helping the underdog until they succeed, it's hurting the success until everyone is a failure
How do you mean? Should we not build wheel chair ramps on buildings? I mean it will cost so much money. It will definitely drag the rest of us down. 🤦
@@falloodaboy Wheelchair ramps are equality of opportunity, not outcome. But to take your example. There's a lot of projects that have to be ADA compliant, which cost the developers millions of dollars, and delay projects. Projects that will never see ADA use. Then having to go through lengthy bureaucratic approvals for something that will cost millions, waste months of time, and never be used. Ultimately hurting everyone, instead of helping the handicapped person. ADA is a pretty large contributor to government project cost and delay.
@@t_c5266 You're right. We should just not add wheel chair ramps because clearly society will come to a halt and the US will become a failure.
If that's the case, then please explain how the slave owners and "white middle class" "earned" the benefits they acquired? Also, explain why the data suggests that the majority of those who become successful already come from affluent families.
@@TheEmpiricistNetwork I think you're confused as to what I'm saying. Becoming successful by pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is not equality of outcome. It's the exact opposite, in fact. Lowering the standards in subjects like English and math so black kids get an A, yet deserve a C or lower is equality of outcome by hurting the kids who actually deserved it. Yes. Even the black kids who deserved an A yet are now ranked the same as kids who write in ghetto speak.
A man who makes me proud to be British. An extremely rare occurrence in these strange times.
I never get tired of listening to Douglas Murray
@@Bropatlibeledsiskelleyleigha hey girl... What's up?... Wanna go listen to some Douglas Murray? ❤️😆
" Diversity means conformity - it's a terrible word. " - Morrissey, 2022
They advocate for every sort of diversity except for the kind that actually matters, diversity of opinion.
@@siggyincr7447 Not sure diversity of opinion is a good thing. of thought perhaps, I'm pretty sure if you have reasonable people discussing a subject at length that they'd coaless around the same opinion in the end even if they had different ones to begin with.
*Nuclear Base Focuses on Diversity, Fails Nuclear Inspections* - from Geller Report "A culture notably absent from the Diversity Day festivities at Minot is a culture of competence"
It actually means Antiwhite. You don't see any push for diversity in any other culture.
@@siggyincr7447 nope, just about skin color
The problem with equity is that it will always result in everyone being at the bottom because there's no other way to force the same outcome for all. You cannot force someone into success, only into failure so the only option is to cut down everyone who strives for the top down to the level of those who won't.
Which may, in fact, be the entire point of it. Hatred of success is a real thing.
yep. this is obvious to any little kid who has ever received a participation trophy after giving it their all, just like the kid who didn't even bother to show up. Not only that but for government to be capable of equalizing all the differences between people it would have to have so much power and control over people's lives that no human freedom would be possible. Anybody that thinks about "equity" for more than two seconds can see that it's a retarded idea which has no possibility of working in the real world -- and you wouldn't want it to because it would be a nightmare. Which is what makes me think we are dealing with a bunch of spoiled, entitled children who have never seen the real world because they've spent their whole lives in the school system being pampered and coddled by bureaucrats whose job it is to maximize enrollment and student retention by catering to their every deranged whim. Notice that the whole argument is framed in terms of "how much stuff the government should give us." Should it give everybody the same, or scale up based on need? Ah yes, the politics of "gibs me dat." How much free shit whould we vote for ourselves to get? A little or a lot or as much as we want? Hmm-- decisions, decisions...
It's not equality of outcome, that is impossible. It's equality of opportunity e.g. anyone (born in the USA) can become president but not everyone does.
George Orwell, in The Road To Wigan Pier, described socialists as people who hated the rich, rather than loved the poor. As a former member of a socialist party, I've come to the conclusion that he was correct.
@@memisemyself I always thought it wasnt that they hate the rich, but that they are _jealous_ of the rich. Because Ive lost count of how many self proclaimed Socialists/Communists Ive seen become rich (using the very system that they claim to despise, mind you) and then continue to pretend like they arnt rich so they can keep "hating" the rich. It all just boils down to them wanting to be the ones with all the power and money. And they are more than willing to lie, cheat and steal (and worse) to get it.
Culture and choices in life deliver outcomes. This guy and Thomas Sowell are able to articulate it well.
Intervening in the demographics of board rooms is stupid but housing the homeless is not.
The great Thomas SOWELL.
Imagine a world where you advertise for a position but you can’t hire the best person most qualified person for the job because they are male, white, straight. Imagine having to are pressured to hire someone who will make you business worse because you have to meet a quota. What a shit world. Oh wait that happened to me. We do live in that world.
Yes, diversity quotas and such are only a band-aid solution to the root problem of certain groups being disadvantaged. In an ideal world, I believe those who fall behind should be given additional support until they're able to perform at a sufficient level - that's what true equality is, in my opinion.
@@Rikri If you want to volunteer to provide that additional support and encourage others to do likewise, good on you; if you want to steal money from other people to pay for it, you're evil.
@@timsmith2525 Are you implying that people providing such support shouldn't be paid because there aren't any short-term benefits?
@@Rikri Not at all. I'm saying that stealing money from people to pay for your idea is evil. If you can convince people to voluntarily contribute toward that goal, than that's great.
@@timsmith2525 That's kind of hard to do in today's society with how self-interested people tend to be. Most people wouldn't voluntarily contribute their money to most kinds of infrastructure if they knew their contributions were unlikely to accomplish much on their own. I'm not an economist, but my understanding is that when you create new opportunities for people to provide value to society, they don't necessarily have to harm other opportunities in the process. Generally, when someone receives funding to take up such a responsibility, the main thing it costs society are other obligations that given person might be able to fulfill instead. Given that definition of "resource", I don't think enough of our resources are being put into actually supporting those who need it.
Douglas Murray is one of the most inspirational people we have today.
He is an authoritarian playing you against your countrymen. Do not let elites control your mind.
The picture on the Left does NOT represent Equality! EQUALITY would be 3 piles of lumber and enough tools & fasteners to build your own stand. The picture on the Right does NOT represent Equity as THEY mean it. EQUITY IS 2 guys HAVING a lumber pile after cutting trees and saw-milling them; / 1 guy fishing and drinking all day, so he does not. Then the pols send Cops to confiscate the lumber from the 2 hard workers and give it to the Freeloader! THAT is Equity! A$$holes!
How so?
Reminds me of William F Buckley.
Read Charles Murray "Facing Reality".
Not much Equity in the construction industry, mining industry, steel works, sewage works, best person for the job and if its hard work reward them appropriately
Yes, it's fun to keep qualified women out and sexually harass the few that get to work in those fields. Look, you talk pretty but an awful lot of women have been treated like that, if they get hired in the first place.
Let's not pretend that the trades doesn't have their share of bullsh1t as well. Favoritism, ratting on workers to the bosses, gossip, poor/grumpy attitudes (diva attitudes) etc. Some of these so called "tough" blue collar guys act worse than b1tches on their periods.
@@jeanlamb5026 For every 10000 men qualified in one of those fields you could count the number of qualified women on your hands and you could count the number of qualified women better suited to that industry than a qualified man using only a finger. Its got nothing to do with them being women, its got everything to do with them just not being as good for the jobs as men.
Oh, right, and you just *know* they aren't qualified because they don't get hired. Just like black people somehow aren't qualified etc.
@@jeanlamb5026 You have the ‘evil white man everyone else is oppressed’ rhetoric down to a tee, ill give you that lol. Shame you don’t also have a valid point. I’m sure somewhere there is a someone interviewing people and they don’t hire someone because they are a woman, a man, or black, or white, or Asian etc but it’s a microscopic problem you want to make into a big problem for some reason. Maybe if you spent as much time focusing on the actual problems instead of just trying to pass the responsibly by blaming everything on racism or sexism you would get somewhere, but you cant actually fix what isn’t broken.
My tolerance for tolerance is finally INTOLERABLE! I started my slow slide back into the light of rectitude when I realized Obama made Race hustling his Number one priority.
One note on 'tolerance': both tolerance *AND* intolerance are helpful, neutral, *AND* harmful, depending on the specific circumstance of each and every unique situation. Should we tolerate someone making basic mistakes as they learn? Of course we should! Should we tolerate someone making basic mistakes if they declare that they are an expert and lives are on the line? Of course we shouldn't! (I also can't help but notice that those who most loudly call for tolerance from their foes are also almost always the most INtolerant people in the room.)
If you're at least a millenial, then you should remember gays and minorities calling for "tolerance" about 20 years ago. This is what people mean by "tolerance" in politics. Tolerating people's differences. Not what they do. But today that "tolerance" was replaced with mandatory "acceptance". You're not allowed to dislike anyone for what they are, even if you're heavily tolerant and would never act on your personal distaste. That's why "tolerance" went out of favor. Because now people want to go into your head and tell you what you have to think, instead of expecting you to just restrain yourself and not discriminate anyone even if you dislike them. Personal dislikes and distastes cannot be tolerated.
In a world where IQ varies the concept of equity is ridiculous.
Iq is fake
Yes, and I'd add to that the variability of talents and aptitudes too.
@@chesster5981 The methods of measuring it may be imperfect, but you can't dispute the difference of intelligence between people.
@@chesster5981 the most well understood and measurable phycological attribute. It’s real.
@@TmanWdaPlan iq tests are not a good indicator of intelligence , s hawkins and feynman agrees so...
Equity is not about lifting people up It's about lowering the fence, and putting achievers in a hole. The more you are perceived to be from some privileged group, the deeper the hole.
Correct analogy would be "Equity is about having strong and tall people spend some of their energy to help the smaller guy so that they can actually pass the fence"
Why not remove the fence? Then you'd have true freedom to where people at all levels, little middling and big as shown can view things from their angle and all enjoy the game from their own perspectives. That's something I've never seen.
@@tonytalks9070 What exactly is "the fence" in your example? What is the thing you want to remove? Barrier to some jobs? I think there are many barriers/fences needed to keep morons out of some fields.
@@tarksurmani6335 no. Government regulations and departments.
If the fence is government regulations, then we need to lower it, not remove it. The fed should uphold the constitution and it's regulations within that means. The best option for energy in the WORLD is nuclear, yet regulations prevent new plants from being built faster than 10+ years. Now, some of these regulations are necessary in order to have safe plants, but many of them are simply there because oil and coal lobbyists don't want nuclear to end their billion dollar industries. Or are they trillions now? Anyway.
"This nonsense is all so utterly boring. I've got books to read." Douglas Murray
The problem is that these days, it's all about box ticking. The right person for the job should be the best, most capable, most experienced/qualified. But what we are seeing is that there has to be a given percentage of female/ethnic/trans, etc, for it to be "fair." Even if these groups dont want to be in that role or are not suited to the role or are incapable of performing it. I used to recruit for an aerospace engineering company, and our annual apprenticeship scheme was open to everyone regardless of race, sex, etc. In 10 years, we had 1 non white person apply (who we set on due to his aptitude for the job). And 1 female (who didn't even turn up for the 1st interview). Consequently, if an outsider looked at us, they would criticise us for our lack of diversity. Should we drag female and non white people off the streets and force them to apply for the sake of ticking boxes?
There is a great deal of historical evidence you've neglected to mention. Those classified as "Black" have only had access to basic human rights for 58 years now. In addition to that fact, many of the policies enacted to combat these disparities have benefited White women more than any other demographic in American history. When you groom a society to adhere to a social construct, changing that ingrained mindset is nearly impossible (that also applies the other side of the spectrum as well).
@@TheEmpiricistNetwork You think that black people only had access to basic human rights for 58 years now? I'm going to assume that you mean in the US, even though the person you're responding to never said where they lived at any time. Please tell which basic human rights black people didn't have in the North.
@@RetroDawn It’s verified by many government agencies that black Americans have only had access to basic human rights for roughly 60 years. As far as the north goes, it was no different from the south regarding segregation and legal discrimination. There’s also a long list of massacres and injustices that occurred in the “north”…
@@TheEmpiricistNetwork You're completely out of touch with history and what has been verified by gov't agencies. You might want to read up on the differences between the north and the south. And there aren't even a long list of massacres of black in the south, let alone the north.
@@RetroDawn Name one thing I’ve stated that isn’t supported by historical evidence…
Murray is one of the greatest thinkers of our time.
His pace and reasoning are very accessible.
Call me daft but anyone from the UK is automatically disqualified from commenting anything American simply because of their own bitterness. Such sore losers.
Not really, but he is smart, articulate and rational.
If you think Murray is one of our greatest thinkers, we are doomed. He really isn't. He "sounds" smart but is anything but. He has is own agenda and works it like a charm. Nothing more.
@@randypanthegoatboy2, I have heard him speak. I don't know crap about you.
LOVE Douglas Murray!!! A national treasure.
which nation ...ireland or scotland ...celtic either way .... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_(surname)
correction....."international treasure". The bloke is a gift to the sane side of humanity :)
@@fieldagentryan second name does not point out your nationality , just most likely where that name originated from , but then again i doubt i had to explain that to you , but your comment seemed ignorant , so i did anyway
He's a world treasure. His message has, or should have, that kind of reach. We need him, and those like him, to save us from the slide into Orwell's oblivion.
Which nation?
He's brilliant. Proves the idioacy of the Left
Most people do not exist on an extreme and do not want to exist on an extreme. Those of us who lie somewhere in the middle, slightly left/slightly right are the only ones who can fix this. Those who lie on either extreme are nothing more than a distraction (and becoming a real threat) that is preventing the rest of us from focusing of what really matters. They do not represent the majority, and yet the rest of us have allowed them to steamroll over us and take control of every aspect of our lives. It is time to put our trivial differences to the side; focus on what we all have in common; come together as a United front; and say NO to the extremism. Until we do, this will only continue to get worse; and the longer we put off addressing this, the less likely we are to overcome it and the greater the price we will all have to pay.
It is always a pleasure to listen to Douglas Murray. He explains everything succinctly and accurately. Equity is nonsense and this will cause massive losses in Companies.
Do not let corporate authoritarians control your thoughts an actions. Do not hate the ideas of others more you love your own ideas. That's how they control you.
@@Inoffensive_name I do not let _any_ authoritarians control my thoughts and actions. And there are _many_ types of people who want to do your thinking for you. The fact is that Murray is saying the things many of us are already thinking. He just articulates the ideas more effectively.
@@PvblivsAelivs how did you start to think the way you did? Were they all original thoughts?
@@DaHogWeed How did you learn history, math, biology, geography and other subjects? Were they your original thoughts?
@@Hardcore_Remixer You learn facts in these academic subjects rather than blind opinion.
Equity is by far the biggest moral scam to ever be concieved, and the fact that we expose such flawed concepts to children with zero nuance is apalling. It is built upon a hypocratic and flawed view of deserving.
Hippocratic or hypocritical?
@johncollins7062 Thank you John - a lovely storey. I have 2 kids here in Australia - 11 and 13. A common conversation we have is on being tolerant and open to hearing all sides, becoming informed and then standing our ground on our own convictions, drawn hopefully from a balance of perspectives and according to our values. I might just add that I think you were taught much more than standing your ground, gratitude being one foundational characteristic you exude, clearly! Regards, David
I realise that the Hippocratic oath has become synonymous with hypocrisy, however, they are two distinct words. I suspect you meant the latter.
@johncollins7062 Sadly, I suspect in 80 years when we are at the next 4th turning, we will experience the exact same thing rhyming again, as for some reason, when times are good, we forget history.
@@fungalbobmaybe it's an attempt to first do no hypocracy...then it's a hippocratic oath to not be hypocritical..😮
Right on 👊💕 provide answers of our own. I say this often, “You don’t play the tantrum-throwing- toddler’s game.”
"Malcolm Gladwell gave a superb masterclass in what it is to strawman an opponent's argument." Savage.
I love the part in the middle of the video, of which Ive argued many a time, is that feminists and the left never complain about equality in all the muck working jobs, its always the big air conditioned comfy jobs. You never hear them demand equality in fields like oil rig worker or sewage treatment plant worker, its always things like we need more female or trans or black CEOs and shit.
Those high level jobs allow them to influence a greater number of people/ employees, now the left doesn't seem so friendly. Politicians are all alike, only the methods differ.
Yeah, on that vein, it makes me wonder how things will play out with the major corporations in which the commoners work in their non-management jobs.
I find that to be an odd argument, because haven’t there been struggles to get women into combat positions in the military? The iconic “Rosie the riveter” who is a symbol of women’s rights? The list goes on. Also lots of history of struggles to open blue-collar work to African Americans. Heck, I’m sure the progressives would be up in arms if they heard a garbage collector was fired for being trans. It’s a weird argument.
Love Douglas! Such clear and real thinking.
I absolutely adore Douglas hesca breath of fresh air highly intelligent and I could listen to him all day. COMMONSENSE is still showing signs of life like a little flame 🔥
He is so right. Arguing in circles with leftists is useless. The only real way to move forward is to set better examples and offer better solutions.
Can’t remember the last time I heard someone on the left speak like this. Composed, calm, decent and honourable
But Douglas Murray is conservative, no?
@@non-blogger yes, and the person is saying people on the left don't talk in the manner he does
Then U live a very shelterd life
Douglas Murray is a British Conservative thinker . When I was young we used to say that Cream rises to the top . Know its more pertinent to say , that Sh*t floats.
@@thoughtfulcreature8479 So give an example………
There’s another term for “equity” - it’s called ‘cheating’.
I have another one for you - 'communism'
@@LordHerek there was no equity in communism.
I guess the words "elitism" and "nepotism" are more palatable to you?
@@poppers7317 but wasn't that the promise?
@@c172215s but not the reality. I don't think it's even possible.
That’s why it’s problematic. Equity to many is making sure in every position there is someone in that position based on skin color regardless of their merits or skills.
The struggle between Left and Right is always the Right giving compromise and the Left giving nothing. Because of that, we continually move Leftward. And the Left criticizes the Right for intolerance. It's beyond time for the Right to grow a spine.
Based
Jesus would someone just put this man in charge of the west soon.
jesus is busy in the ukraine removing the baggage for something like that to occur ... i think its called nato
Dont take the Lords name in vain and Our Lord would never put this reprobate in charge.
God is already in full control
@@vinnyv949 Well it's a good thing your Lord doesn't exist and that Douglas Murray can keep spreading his wisdom.
@@mattturner5429 this is why atheists can’t be true conservatives. They promote evil ideology just like the left. You know it used to be looked down upon to be a heathen and now individuals like you actually take pride in it. It’s literally impossible for God not to exist. Never mind it’s beneath human dignity and reason to think humans randomly evolved from pond scum. I hope you and Douglas repent and change your ways before it’s too late. You have your entire life but I strongly urge that you don’t wait as the only thing keeping you from the fires of Gehenna for all eternity is God willing your heart to beat another second. I’m here if you need help in converting. Otherwise good luck.
When Douglas Murray is talking, I listen
Douglas never fails to impress.
What frustrates me is that choosing people based on their gender race sexuality and whatever else, takes the focus away from getting the job done as best as possible and onto peoples look. Surely choosing someone who is the best for the job is more important that fitting quotas.
This man's an absolute legend.
I’ve met like 3 women electricians in my career as an electrician. They’re all cool and pull their weight, because if they didn’t they would have weeded themselves out like the weak men do.
But clearly they can't possibly be as qualified as a white guy! Right?
Weak men? What are you talking about??
That fence is way to short. Those migrants are practically ignoring it.
I do not consider myself in any box - left or right - and abhor the need for labels. But this was real food for thought. Thanks.
When you force discrimination at a systemic level, that is evil. Self-discrimination is mostly harmless. We all have preferences even if when taken over time they can lead to bad outcomes. The alternative of forcing an outcome through discrimination is so much worse.
People forget that in a meritocratic system like capitalism personal discrimination ultimately has to fail. You don't want to hire women, blacks, or gays? Well, your competitor will take them if they're actually good and qualified workers and will win over you in the long run. It's a self-correcting system that already promotes equality. Even if you start with "women and minorities had no access to good education and couldn't become well-qualified" argument, that was getting naturally corrected as well. In 90's and 2000's there were more and more women and minorities enrolling in universities, even before this woke craze of discriminating against straight white males in order to make room for them.
@@med2904 Unfortunately that's mostly untrue. There are special case exceptions but mostly in culture people tend to do what their parents and friends do. So if your community is interested in computers and video games, your kids will tend to do the same thing. I would never argue that enforced discrimination should ever be a law or company policy. Self-discrimination is a thing and does lead to different life outcomes because of these cultural behaviors. If people try to force integration, it will just create a lot of resentment. It doesn't work. Culture has to progress naturally not artificially. Equality doesn't factor into it.
Fantastic talk and so correct about where we are now.
Equity of outcome screws us all in the end.
As a moderate and rational Democrat I really appreciate the use of humor to point out the absurdity of the far Left.
Spot on! 💯
I am a heterosexual Man who has worked in the building industry for almost forty years, I am what some would call a "Toxic Male". Douglas Murray is a.... Well, he's a Homosexual, condescending and at times arrogant Man. This Man talks so much sense! I have enjoyed two of his books so far and like his view on life! According to modern leftist mindset, he should hate me as much as I should hate him! Not so! Thank you Douglas for being a light of common sense and reality in this mad, mad World!
be very wary about people who describe another group as "toxic". greetings from Germany, where we have a nasty history with that (yet this toxic masc. narrative still has caught on here, unfortunately)
If someone calls you toxic ask them how many houses they built
@@hpholland In my humble mind, I think we build Homes! I see people go to work, Children go to school, Dad's mow lawns and Mom's create homes! We work in all weathers, we battle against cold, we work when we are drenched through to the skin, we work when the heat is far too much to bear! But... Behind us is a community of people who have settled into their homes! Yes, some of them hate us because we make a lot of dust and noise! But when we finally move on, we leave a community!
You're not toxic because you're a heterosexual male. Toxic is a series of behaviors. Do you exhibit those behaviors? If no, then you're not a toxic male. There's no need to play identity politics.
@@tgm2474 Does informing someone that they are talking tripe class as toxic behaviour?
Rightly so, it's about time we decided to provide answers and ideas instead of complaining about the Left and "dismantling" their arguments. We need solutions and actionable plans.
The solution was implemented a long time ago, it is against the law for a company to discriminate at all. But this wasn't good enough and now lefties want more discrimination not less.
Right, so where are these lovely conservative plans now? Get the impression that wanting to dismantle leftist arguments and finger pointing is still the best they can do so far.
@@quentinstyger747 Do what the Left did and capture the institutions by training your children to do to so. The Left strategically used their university lecturers to publish bogus papers that favoured their ideology, they also trained the next generations of teachers to indoctrinate children into their ideology from a young age. So the solution? We essentially need to do the same, only the difference is that we do it based on logic, facts, and love. The weapon of the Left is using peoples emotions against them, which is why they prey on disgruntled young adults, who hate their parents (usually due to neglectful parenting), or children who don't know better, to do their fighting for them under the guise of helping them through the lense of victimhood. Our own children can be used to recapture the institutions that we lost by paying special attention to what they are learning, taking an active role in their learning and social lives, and by being good parents, can persuade them against the siren song of victimhood that the left sings. That is the gift of having children; they are your legacy. With your hard work into raising them, they can work hard to rebuild the society and culture that was destroyed by the Left. The other solutions are to form pockets of influence, usually other parents, and form communities that are tight knit. It's going to be hard, and take a long time, however it would be worth it in the end. It's easy to put your head down and ignore the world, focussing only on yourself and your family, but it takes courage to drift away from that and encourage community.
Haven’t seen this guy until recently but what a beautiful brain he has
Douglas Murray = brilliant 👏
Thank you for your time spent on this issue.
How refreshing to hear rational practical logic instead of extremist rhetoric 👏
How about we all agree it would be nice to live in a world where as many people as possible were able to reach as close to their fullest potential as possible? Why do we obsessively continue to look at individual achievements through a comparative lens, always comparing ourselves to other’s Facebook page photos?
Ah, the downside of being a social animal...
I agree with this 3000%! I've been saying that what we need is an emphasize on everyone being the best that they can be, rather than being equal. I don't care if Oprah or Musk has more money or fame or whatever. That's irrelevant.
There’s only so much to reach though. Like those high status carrees, only a handful of people can actually have one
Build a bigger fence, stop the freeloaders and get them to pay to watch the game instead.
I love the thumbnail photo used to intro this video. It expresses the thought that elevating everyone to the same position gives them the same view. We all have different talents and abilities. Putting me on a box so I can see a game doesn't mean I'm going to gain more from a game I don't understand or never played. Some things only come from learning and experience. That 'gradual' growth, as spoken of in this video, is valuable and will make those who take that path stronger, not weaker or hindered.
Wish I could like this more than once. The additional step that one must comprehend the view one now has fits in myriad ways, and that the pearls will be lost before swine escapes the pure environmental “nurture” thinkers.
It’s not a box!!!! They want to dig holes and build mounds. Then call THAT “equity”
Douglas has always been the best thinker and debater,
A... Master... debater?
quotas force less qualified people into positions where another person would do a better job if the quota wouldn't exist .. creating lower efficiency over all and resentment amongst those who see a person in a privileged position which is in this place because of quotas
When you think about the medical profession that is terrifying.
Yes. As engaging as Douglas Murray's speech was, this three-line comment explains the problem far better than he did. I wonder why he didn't say what you just said.
More conversions need to be had around bad faith arguments. thank you so much for speaking facts reasonably
Great to see young European woman who doen't follow the herd.
EXCEPTIONAL. Thank you again, Douglas Murray.
I left the U.K. in 2015 when I realised that the corporate world was no longer a meritocracy. I now run a consulting and a publishing business in central Europe. That is all.
Hope everything goes well for you.
Lmao it was always plagued with nepotism and elitism. You don't like it now that it's slightly less in your favour?
The corporate world was never a meritocracy. White guys with good golf scores still get ahead faster. I guess some white guys get bent out of shape when those Inferior Other People actually get promotions.
@@johnlondon5516 And plaguing it with an entirely different but just as bad problem is somehow better?
@@thunderbug8640 I didn't say that, did I?
I’m beginning to think Douglass is the brightest of all thinkers on the “right” today. Every time I listen to him I’m amazed at the clarity of his thinking.
I agree. Douglas Murray is, at the very least one of the brightest thinkers of the Right and I would go a step further and call him one of the greatest political thinkers alive today
I certainly appreciate his moderation
He’s a gay lefty independent who cut his teeth as Hitchens was on the way out. He’s a master class of tact and honesty.
@@all_your_baser_belong_to_us Douglas Murray isn’t on the Left. He’s on the Right and he actually calls himself a Neoconservative
I don't think he said anything profound here but it was hard for me to listen and focus on his words. The audio was so quiet and he was speaking with so little energy oddly.
GOD I love Douglas Murray since I discovered him almost 6 years ago. He has educated me in many ways. Yes with discussion and how to debate (I admit I'm still struggling to keep my shit together when someone won't open their ears lol) but I have learnt soo many words which I didn't understand before. So before I carried on listening I looked them up so I could understand the full context of any said discussion. It's VERY empowering to feel you have learnt something inadvertently as well as consciously. I'm 46 now and never really gave a damn about social issues, politics or government policy in my 20s which I regret.
Marvellous speech. Thank you.
The issue with the vision of equity that they are proposing is very simple. We are not talking about random boxes on the street to watch a game without paying. We are talking about people's property, and their vision of equity is to use violence to take away people's property, so they can manage it and re-distribute arbitrarily. This effectively places all property at the hands of the politicians, which have no incentives to manage well. Since now, private property is not a reward for hard work, instead of focusing on building, creating and thriving, the focus now becomes pleasing the politician. The end result is a total economic failure and impoverishment of the region. The reason the right focuses on not doing that is because of the cataclysmic nature of it. The specifics of what we should do instead is basically irrelevant and it is best left for the individual to figure out. The problem of "Oh that is complacent and would take too long" is just absurd because it assumes that diversity is the goal, instead of the natural end result of a fair society, and assumes that taking away people's property by force is a valid method to achieve this goal. If instead the goal would be a fair society, the time component is completely removed, we just need to focus on protecting peaceful people from unjustified aggression, which is what the right is constantly talking about doing.
Exactly. They talk of redistribution, as if wealth and income were distributed in the first place. They were not
Elected officials have more of an incentive to efficiently use resources for the betterment of society than billionaires. It’s also much harder to hold them accountable for wrongdoing.
Oh, like DeSantis taking over Disney?
Humanity has a long history of seizing one's ill gotten gains from unjust activity. We're a little more civilized today and use lawsuits. But if one group has disproportionately benefitted from bad behavior, it's entirely precedented to redress this, using force as required. As to "what the right is constantly talking about doing," has the nice implication of "I got mine, we can start being equal now."
@Jean Lamb can you explain this to me? If true, why would he sue himself?
Murray for PrimeMinister
More like Murray for Britain's Got Talent. Screw Your Head On.
@@utv5490 oh, well that’s convinced me. I’m now converting to communism because of you’re tour-de-force of a post.
@@MrDanielvass What has communism got to do with anything? You need to get some therapy along with the other Trump, Rogan and Farage fans. Good luck.
"ALMOST NOBODY IS DEMANDING MORE TRANS ROADLAYERS"-EXACTLY!!!
Excellent. IQ, motivation and talent are not equally distributed.
This guy is awesome, telling it as it is.
How could ANYONE with a functioning mind find fault with what this man said?
That's exactly the problem, most people don't have a functioning mind, most need someone to tell them what to do, and the person who tells them what to do has an evel less functioning mind, but is incredibly charismatic.
Common sense ain’t all that common these days....
@@silverfoxeater I agree with your sentiment, however I would say that, even playing devil's advocate, the 'left's' demonstrations of why equity is necessary (those that I have read and seen), are deeply flawed. Typically the argument goes, 'Equal opportunity doesn't work because certain subsets of people start on different rungs of the ladder, and therefore have much higher to climb.' The problem with this allegory is the concept of a single ladder. There is no 'single ladder' to achieve a goal. Every individual 'starts' on different rungs of an infinite amount of ladders. Intelligence, wealth, strength, familial heritage, location, race, gender, eye colour, allergies - any one of a million different factors can and do play into how likely you are to achieve success (with 'success' again governed by a million different factors) - and thus it is impossible to quantify. And anyone who claims that they can, and wants to install their version of a solution, WILL wreak disaster on society. In effect, equity has the exact same flaws that the communist states of the 20th century had - the Problem of Knowledge.
He seems to have a lot of support from Joe Rogan and GB News viewers. Simpletons.
@silverfoxeater "everything political is completely subjective." This is false. Political thought deals with real-world effects, and truth (as well as opinion I agree), and historical analysis can show that some political thought and subsequent action caused enormous suffering, or perhaps less suffering and even good. This is measurable, an quantifiable, else how could anything actually get done? Therefore the results of policy, and the enactment of social science (it is a science) can be measured. Although much of political effort and resulting ideas are subjective in their reach - appealing or not appealing to the electorate, the actual business of politics, which includes what happens during government or out of government, can be measured. Although this can be denied, it is still no less measurable to professors of social science and political science.
One of the sharpest minds of our time.
Thank you Douglas, you have just given me a vision of a bearded transvestite in a floral dress mincing across a building site with pneumatic drill over his shoulder. Brilliant.
❤ Douglas Murray.
Put equal in, get equal out! If you can't put equal in, then do your best to put what you can in. Put nothing at all in, get nothing out.
Equality of opportunity has resulted in less equal outcomes, so less equity, not more, in the Scandinavian countries. This reflects the freedom of individual choices, which is preferred to the tyranny of quotas, surely. So why is the male nurse earning more than the female nurse? The reason often is that the male has specialised in the operation of technical medical equipment, so is remunerated accordingly, etc.
The countries that rely on merit prosper those that don't stagnate and collapse
Brilliant as usual
Such a brilliant mind.
As always a pleasure listening to Douglas speak. Though I think it should be pointed out that "steel-maning" your own position or what you are in favor of, i.e. meritocracy, isn't really in the spirit of the concept. Normally "steel-maning" refers to putting forth the best version of your opposition's argument, not your own.
I do wish people would stop assuming the gender of straw persons.
Yeah noticed that too. Think he misspoke
@@Basicx951 Yeah, I'm not really faulting him for it. Just clarifying for those that might not know. I would be happy to be half as well-spoken as Murray.
"This is what we're to be about".
Brilliant man. Always calm, reasonable, and razor sharp
We need to bring back press gangs and send them out to collect women to train for construction, ditch digging, plumbing, roofing and bricklaying jobs.
Being in a softer society, it's hard to provide answers of our own if we aren't willing to be criticized and shamed for just having those ideas. The censorship of the left will help destroy our society as we know it, as well as gender dysphoria of course.
I those things seem unrelated but gender dysphoria is a b*tch lol
The gender dysphoria folks will go away "Darwin Award" style...
Exactly. You don’t argue with your children or an inmate about what they say and think. You show them the correct way.
Douglas Murray makes such a lot of sense, it beggars belief that he isn't more popular, however it explains why his opponents are so frightened of him....
The overlooked point is "How do you define merit?" Your merit is your worth. Who defines what aspect of a person is worth more than another aspect? We default that to earning power. You are worth more if you can earn more. But to a person with a parent with dementia, the excellent carer for you relative has the most merit.
We can't base "merit" on anything else than your earning power because any other definition will immediately become subjective. As you've noticed, a good carer might be the most important for a customer who needs someone to care for their mother. But how many such carers are needed vs. how easy it is to become one? It's a relatively easy job that requires only the right personality and some basic medical knowledge. So probably about 10-20% of people could do it. While being a doctor or an engineer is a lot more demanding and less than 1% of people can do it. So this is where the higher merit comes from. You have to look at what the entire society needs and not what you or any other specific person needs the most at the moment.
The illustration is about watching sports not about participating, in fact participating in sports is the best example of meritocracy vs equity
Not if you played baseball before April 15, 1947. And don't be naïve to think sports is a meritocracy today. It was only 10 years ago that the "black quarterback" ceased to be an anomaly.
@@tgm2474 I’m Dutch. But in the US people are placed in teams nowadays because they have a certain skin color or are Asian or are disabled etc. you say? Or are they the best in what they do in order to win?
@@stefke5862 Wait, you mean everyone is not an American?! 😄I'm simply pointing out that sports is not as meritocratic as one might think.
The problem now, is that certain people on the left demand equity. Every job should have the exact number of participants in proportion as there are in the general society regardless of qualifications.
I so want you to be our next Prime Minister, Mr Murray!
We must glorify weakness and madness !
The thing with Equity vs Equality is, companies see the resources they have to invest in their employees/customers these days, not the people behind the resources. From a capitalistic standpoint, absolutely you'd rather hire the grown man, rather than the small child, because he's more likely to produce a return on your investment and wont cost you anything to invest in. What they fail to realize is that EVERYONE begins their life as the small child and nobody provides opporunities for the small child to grow into the grown adult. Even many of the "ground level" jobs expect x number of years of experience. We're dead as a society...
I don't usually agree with people who openly call themselves right-wingers but you totally have a point
Spot on brilliant
We seem to have forgotten our aspirations for the 21st century. I was eight-years-old when Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon. I remember growing up with a strong sense that we were rapidly moving towards a better, technologically-enhanced life for all. Programmes like 'Tomorrow's World' showed us, every week, the scientific wonders around the corner. What we didn't count upon was the rise of the lunatic left in Western society. Robotics and AI development should have been an area of science that would exponentially boost our knowledge and make the world better for all. From its early days it was subject to Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics (which basically precluded any possibility of AI/Robotics harming mankind). We now find that the left have abandoned those principles and see it as a tool with which to control and censor public opinion - which makes it very dangerous. I'm not "far-right", I'm simply dismayed that the potential gains for mankind are being dragged into the mire by twisted people with stunted minds and the meanest aspirations. They also know very well that "renewables" technology is basically very expensive garbage. The "net zero" policies are like going back to the the Little Ice Age and short-sighted government telling all scientists to focus on making better candles, instead of ultimately developing electricity for heating and lighting, thus making all our lives better. But, of course, "renewables" make a lot of people rich.
@Mac Cleba Yes. The problems are two fold, one is the people complaining now about what is being done with societal shifts, were often the children of ones that did nothing to assist the ones that missed out, and actively did everything they could to keep that going. The far greater problem, is the small numbers at the very top took advantage of both societal shifts, and manipulated the ones in power at that time, to grab more than they need, and vast numbers of people missed out. The vast numbers that are causing chaos now are the grandchildren of that generation.
And now you have the first black astronaut going to circle the moon reading "Whitey on the Moon" aloud. I guess that man forgot about his sister and that rat.
@Mac Cleba I totally agree on human selfishness. Your are also right on financial liberation. Not for material liberation, as the West sees these things, but because where I come from, everything we need to survive needs financial access to do so at all levels today. As Maori, that requires money for all of my cultural and survival needs. I want food, I have to pay money for petrol, and the food itself. I want to interact with my own culture, I need to pay for more petrol to do so. Right now, that is expensive, and will only get more costly.
Countries like Iceland save millions using renewables, I don’t think you realise how large the fossile fuel industry is compared to renewables. If you wanted to make money you’d go with fossil fuels not renewable
The people halting technological advancement are capitalists. Planned obsolescence in the aim of profit means products are well below the standard they could be. The reason we haven’t automated so much of our workforce is because then people would have free time and that would be the evil of communism