Let's talk about controllers! I tried them all for you, so you can decide which one is best of you. Let me know what you think in the comments below!
0:00 Intro
0:36 Paradise Arcade Parts paradisearcadeshop.com/
1:35 Keybox Arcade keyboxarcade.eu/shop
2:27 SGF Devices sgfdevices.com/collections/co...
4:20 Junkfood Arcades junkfoodarcades.com/collections
5:48 Razer Kitsune www.razer.com/console-control...
7:35 Mavercade mavercade.com/collections/mav...
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#leverlesscontroller #JustinWong #JWong #FGC
1. Get the cheapest mechanical keyboard possible with cherry red style switches (or whatever you prefer). 2. Optional: Rip out all keys except a,s,d, space and 6/8 keys on the right (maybe keep esc, enter and some others for utility). 3. Optional: Write an autohotkey script to get your preferred SOCD resolving. Done. Leverless controller for less than 20 bucks.
Haute42 mini is literally this but prebuilt for 15 usd, plus it uses gp2040 so it gets ps5 and xbox compatibility via passthrough
@@Cyliano That's awesome! Edit: It does not have a good layout for fighting games though. There's a reason you use space for up instead of W.
@@theshinken yeah but 15$. I use the g16 though, and it cost me 35USD with coupons and about 60 total since I replaced the switches for akko v3 silvers and gamerfinger caps
@@theshinken there is a keyboard type board like the haute42 mini made by fightingbox that has a key where the spacebar would be. a little more pricier but way cheaper than 120
There are also hotswap keyboards that let you pull out and replace the switches without soldering
Awesome roundup! There are a lot of leverless controllers out there now, and very few bad options :) It's really nice to see all these sticks next to each other to see their relative sizes and features.
Love your enthusiasm for leverless controllers! It's fun to hear your perspective, and I hope to try my hand at a similar video concept down the road.
Great to see you here man, and thank you so much for your video on making your own flatbox. I've made a few for me and my friends now, great project to get into.
@@I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I Ayy, thanks, I appreciate that! Great that you made a few for your friends! That's awesome and how we grow the scene!
The Keybox layout is the one I use on my keyboard-- QWD+Space instead of ASD+Space. Of course the staggered drop on the D key is more severe on a standard keyboard but it still helps with the left hand ergonomics.
I have the keebbrawler-04. Was keyboard player and the ergonomics is INSANE!!! Shoutout mavercade!!!
Perfect timing on this one! I’ve been getting wrist pain lately after playing 30 minutes to an hour of matches on a gamepad, and I’ve been looking at trying one of these.
Be prepared. I get about an hour out of leverless before my wrist starts to hurt as well. Maybe it's just me lol.
I'm trying to switch from Stick to Hitbox, and it hurts my left hand a lot after sometime
@@Frisnokokosdumdum same. It's also my left that starts hurting.
@@DSTyN288 okay, I've found a hack. I've been using a book to make it higher for sometime, now that I've got used to it, using the Hitbox on my lap isn't so hard lol
I have the sgf flatbox and love it. Been over a year with it, there customer service is top tier and the product feels great
I really like the wire locking mechanism on the kitsune. I hope more controllers start adopting that feature
I played fighting games on pad. I tried stick and I liked the satisfaction of hitting buttons and the sound they make but my left wrist felt incredibly uncomfortable. I made the switch to the leverless controllers and they are fantastic. I have small hands and slim build so I don't get discomfort like some do. I felt more accurate with the leverless and felt like I placed inputs quicker. Of course, I get the satisfying button touch and sound the buttons make when tapping on them. I have the Junkfood Arcade micro XL, Mavercade Keebbrawler 04-S and the Haute Pro by Haute42. I really enjoy playing on the Mavercade and the Haute. Mavercade for the space between your hands to make playing even more comfortable. Most leverless use 24mm buttons minus the up button which is 30mm. If you want all 30mm buttons, then opt for the shiokusen layout for leverless, which the Haute Pro uses. I like the shiokusen layout because it is most comfortable to press two vertical buttons, for example MP+MK. The Haute Pro looks absolutely sick too and affordable at around 100 USD. I got mine on sale for 80 USD. It also has cool mini LED screen that shows a digital display of the buttons and the mode the Haute is in.
Which stick did you play on, my hands, my little fingers, small stick, won't I be comfortable?
Thanks for this! Looking to get one so.
They looking quite cool! Thanks
Gonna be getting a kitsune to go with my custom built stick. Im so excited to have a leverless for sf6, mk1 and dbzf.
If you're wondering how long it'll take to get used to leverless, it's really easy to learn if you already have the standard PC "W,A,S,D" for movement and spacebar for jump control scheme internalized. It only took me about a week on leverless before I was more consistent on that than I was on stick. If you're not used to those types of controls, it'll probably take months to get used to.
It's the main reason I stopped playing fighters because consoles don't have keyboard controls. But that's the wrong layout. I played at a super high level in samurai shodown 5 special, it has some really hard to pull of commands that have to be lightning fast. You put your movement to your RIGHT hand. Trust me, the movement is the priority, the attacks are easy with the left. I'd HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend trying that out, try a dp with the right hand and tell me it doesn't feel correct. IJKL for movement. ASDF ER C etc for buttons and hotkeys.
I would love to see a level list controller that had the directional buttons kind of like 4 pieces to a pie. You know, like triangular circle edge obviously, but like for UP down left right that way. You could easily slide your finger from down to right for fireball motion. How do I send it😊
@@cubeuhhgaming5034 That's not as good as ijkl on a keyboard, when you use a kb you already have 3 fingers resting on the buttons, I don't think you can improve on that design, your finger moves the shortest amount of distance possible. It's like trying to improve the wheel. It would be just adding more distance between the buttons for no reason. It's already SUPER easy to do the comands on keyboard. You don't want to "slide", you just tap, k j - Attack. If you slide youll end up getting tired fingers and eventually rubbing skin off.
I bind the movement controls to the arrow keys and just to both space and up direction. Planning to buy the flipped button box :D
@@DDBT-nk7lq the flipped one has direction inputs on the right.
Been using my snackbox micro for about 9 months or so now and I can honestly say its the best videogame controller I've ever used in my life. Honestly hard to go wrong. I haven't used the kitsune and it seems nice enough but TBH just looking at it having experienced the snackbox I don't think its all that. The main design appeal seems to be the size but personally I think the snackbox found the perfect sweet spot of the flat keyboard design. Also: just a personal opinon but I like the concave keys of the 2023 snackbox way more than the convex ones almost every other competitor offers. They offer convex if you really want em but IMO you're missing out on that sweet feeling of your finger tips automatically finding the center so naturally.
Its my favourite controller. But be careful with it - I've had mine near two years, and the cable connection on the micro is pretty dodgy now. A few people have said the same.
Haute42 came out and just dunked on this whole video haha, look forward to JW checking those out cause the price and quality is incredible.
I have a SnackBox Micro. I fell in love immediately...well 6 months after I started using it since it was my first stick ever for the first time I cared about deep-diving a game. The micro buttons on the top are a nightmare. They need to be a smaller version of the rest of the buttons instead of those dots that resist so hard. Other than that, I'd shape the base like a slight triangle to angle the thing toward me a little. Edit: Like the Mavercade buttons!...or everyone else after that! It looks like everyone learned from that SnackBox mistake.
The Keebrawler is absolutely excellent when it works, especially for me who really prefer doing TK motions with right thumb on Up, but most other moves with my left thumb on Up. Unfortunately, my sample size of 1 started disconnecting a lot for no obvious reason. The cable was fine and it seems like the ports were fine, but the amount of times it disconnected mid-match on PC was... unfortunate. My Snackbox Micro replacement is absolutely excellent and I'm very happy with it - the buttons/switches are even better - but sadly doesn't have the thicc Up button. Can absolutely vouch for the SBM, the best leverless I've ever used when taking reliability into account. Sadly can't vouch for the Keebbrawler no matter how much I love and adore the thicc jump, because of the connection issues.
I had this same problem with my Keebbrawler-01 before, but it stopped when I switched cables. I was using a magnetic usb-c cable and adapter, maybe the magnet was causing some sort of emf interference since the raspberry pi zero is like literally right on the other end of the usb-c port, I dunno. I had no problems with a different cable. The magnetic cable doesn't cause disconnects on my keebbrawler-04 though :)
Is it compatible with Ps5?
The current #1 best fighting game controller in the world is the dirty old PS2 arcade stick I’ve been using with my Brooks converter, where the cord has started to fray just a little bit right at the base of the unit, so I’ve attached a bunch of toothpicks and electrician’s tape at that spot to straighten it out and hold it all together, in order to slow down the probable formation of any future wire breakage. It’s still alive for now! Alive and strong!!
Based
The real goat leverless is the $50 aliexpress special. Kahil choc v2 switches, and it even includes LEDs and a display screen.
From someone who had ZERO experience in any type of construction whatsoever, it's worth it building your own controler. It's MUCH cheaper, and you get the exact layout you want. And if you want to use normal hitbox/arcade buttons, you don't even have to do any soldering because nowadays they sell fighting board microchips with already properly prepared cables with it. I personally had to do some soldering because I wanted to use keyboard switches instead (I originally play on keyboard)
They have released a drop in Brook UFB PCB with PS5 support for the Mpress Nano. with its all aluminum construction its value is great.
I don't know if it's something you're willing to invest in but I would love to see you review more fightsticka.
Just got obsidian 2 gave it a spin on switch had 2 update wingman firmware dropped so many Inputs tryna use (zoning character 🤦🏿). Hope leverless is more ergonomic for u now J, u gotta do a collaborative controller vid with tokido next time u can link with him 😉
Started learning leverless on Snackbox Micro a year and a half ago or so, but it hurts my hands and wrists after a short while unless i use my keyboard wrist rest with it. Got a Razer Kitsune recently for the wider footprint and it was worth it just for that.
Kitsune feels much better
I have a few of these products and agree with the points. I use the Kitsune and Snackbox Micro the most, though i still prefer arcade stick lol. I am curious about one of those more recent leverless layouts that move the outer buttons a bit closer to your thumb, somewhat like that last model you showed.
But are you stronger on fightstick?
I like the different colors and designs of the lever less I don’t play on pc or any of the other game consoles this was a good video I like it
I'd been wanting a leverless controller for a while, as I never really hit all the inputs on a stick with the consistency I wanted. Also, I ended up playing SF4 on keyboard & Tekken 7 on an xbox controller so I wanted something I could use across all fighting games. A friend picked up a couple of the Mavercade controllers & after his recommendation I ordered a Keebfighter-03. Definitely recommend a Mavercade controller for anyone looking for a well made leverless controller.
Id love to see a pad/controller video. I use the Hori commander myself and its pretty good. The Dpad though i think could be a bit better but it does the job.
You should try the anbernic arc d or s, they also work as a xbox 360 controller when plugged in. Loving mine for retro gaming haven't used it for sf6 yet.
do you play exclusively with lever-less now? if not, what instances do you use a regular fight stick?
The Mavercade ones with extra buttons are truly legit
Which is the best thanks :) might get one for tekken 8 - bit restricted in the uk
Hi @jwonggg was wondering if you had any recommendations for skins on kitsune boards similar to those made by Dbrands.
any recommendations for the upcoming tekken 8?
Justin you know any single player games with deep fighting mechanics? Like a beat em up? I played sengoku 3, but theres gotta be something that's like kof but a beat em up. I grew up with fighters, but I peaked with samurai shodown 5 special and now nothing seems as good or I don't have the patience to learn anymore.
Bought a kitsune I loved how quality it felt....BUT I realized actually taking time to learn leverless and suck for a while naw. Didn't want to do that again I'm too busy lol keep that in mind when you're switching. If you got time to struggle for a bit go right ahead. ✅️
love to see joystick and pad. Which one was your favorite! I use the razer kitsune. I love it so much better than Hitbox. Hitbox needs a new model. something I think with little more wrist room and thinner or like a mini version. Only thing they made new in recent years was the crossup.
The one at 2:26 works like a charm. Highly recommend it
Hori Fighting Commander switch version. Cheap af (feels cheap to honestly), but perfect for SF6. That d-pad is godlike.
I got the razer kitsune and its the best upgrade ive made as far as controllers go
Me too
Pretty cool! I don't think i coudl play with one of these though lol
yeah, BUT, what are the pros and cons on a "levered" controller vs. leverless controller? and which one (and when) would you use each?
Why would it be useful for you? If you're able, try one. It may not be for you, specially if you have a weak left ring finger.
The Pros are that Leverless controllers are STUPIDLY reliable for inputs. If you're not a huge fan of the Dragon Punch motion, double Fireball, or Quarter-circle-back-forward motions - Leverless controllers increase the input success rate by a very noticeable amount. It is also very easy to do Jump Canceling, as you're just tapping the large button at the bottom of the controller. The Cons - THESE ARE NOT FOR GRAPPLERS. 360, 720, and 1080 motions are VERY difficult on Leverless controllers. They're not impossible, and there are ways to do them, but you will absolutely have to go out of your way to figure it out. Secondly, learning Leverless is a reset in your muscle memory and will take your ability to play down by quite a bit until you practice a fair amount. Be prepared to have a reset in your skill level, but the Pros (unless you're a grappler main) for me have been amazing. I can't go back, being able to instant DP, or reliably hit those standing medium -> super cancels are just fantastic. If you want to test out how Leverless works - most people already have one - their KEYBOARD! I played on Keyboard for a long while before committing and buying a controller, but the familiarity transferred over seamlessly. To see how easy it is to do inputs on a keyboard check out this video. After watching this video I decided to go Leverless. kzhead.info/sun/dNqBec6ibqt3YHA/bejne.htmlsi=p0gHryf0P372E8Yt PS: If anyone is wondering how they should map their keyboard I used the following mapping which mimics the configuration of a leverless controller. (Left Hand) A = Back, S = Down, D = Forward, Space = Up. (Right Hand) 6-button config: U = LP, I = MP, P = HP, J = LK, K = MK, L = HK. I also assign H to something I use often like Throw. 4-button config: I = (A) Light, O = (B) Medium, P = (C) Fierce, J = (D) Special. PPS: I forgot to mention Charge characters. Yes - Leverless is awesome with Charge characters too, as you can hold down the Charge button instantly without having the time needed to move your joystick into the charge position.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND the Haute42 G series, I have the G16. It's small, has couple of extra buttons, firmware uses GP2040-CE so very customisable, has customisable RGB, good build quality and very inexpensive!
@@Fralorgrafon I know right?! I look at some of the options in the video and I’m like you’re spending $100+ on that????
@@FralorgrafonOh shut the hell up, just say you're poor otherwise you'd be flexing a kitsune.
Is there a video for arcade sticks?
I also own the Chun Li kitsune. Its a gem 💎. Very beautiful and feels very responsive as well.
Bro all leverless controllers, how about FightPads and fight sticks?
I've tried 3 or 4 different leverless, I even own one, but after a couple of fights I always go back to my Hori Alpha. All buttons may be more precise, butt in the end, I have more fun with the good old stick. A version of this video with "new" fightsticks like the Hori Alpha, the 3 new Qanbas, etc. could be really interesting.
Thank you so much for recommending me the Razer Kitsune when I’ve asked before about what you would go for between the 2 leverless controllers I’ve mentioned. I’m really glad I didn’t have to wait for too long for the release of it and I’m glad that I’ve waited. It’s great to know about how Razer have researched on latency and how they’ve made the timing of the button controls so precise, just like the sticks they used to make even when compared to the Mad Katz sticks I still have, Razer’s button response was faster and they’re now doing the same with leverless. I’m loving the Kitsune a lot, it’s even so sturdy for a leverless that is so small, slim, and lightweight. It even feels great on my lap. I think it really is the best all-button arcade controller available now. Excellent video! Thank you so much for your help!
What is the cheapest you would go for a lever less controller or is a controller with a lever better?
I wish i knew if leverless was the right option for me. Dropping that kind of money on something like a controller is just too much to ask if i can't get used to it :/
are there any inverted ones? where i can play movement with the right hand?
Really wish Razer would have released a version of the Kitsune with a mixbox layout for movement.
what do you think about Neobox Rev5?
What should be the better choice, Hori Fighting Stick Alpha or Razer Kitsune?
I got both snackbox and Kitsune and I prefer the Kitsune as my hands are big and there are enough space to rest my hands on. The buttons are also bigger. It would take some time to get used to leverless, maybe about a week or 2. Other than the Kitsune which I frequently use these days, i also like to use my qanba pearl joystick from time to time. Always fun to play with the joystick!
What company has a good return policy cuz I want to try one of these out so bad but man that price just to find out you don't like it...
What about levered fight sticks? What do you all reccomend there?
japanese- hori fighting edge (i use nobi bullet as the lever) korean - etokki omni (i use fujin v3 as the lever)
I wish there were more small leverless controllers that house arcade buttons like the Juryo since not everyone likes the flat box style of switches with caps on them :/
I got the Razor, it's awesome. I still suck at the game though.
Still happy with my Red Limited Edition Victrix. For sale by the way
zappa in strive is a great idea lol
Thanks for the vid, but how many times do you have to say "obviously"????
The best 2023 controllers by J Wong
I’ve got two suggestions, Red Earth and Chinese Exorcist.
Damn no mention of Hitbox?
I really need a top WASD layout controllers
Can you use this type of controllers in tounament actually?
I been using my keyboard for over 20 years. I use the arrow keys which I am right handed but does that mean I am left handed when it comes to games? Since I can not do a moved on a controller or arcade stick. Hmmm
For myself I grabbed the Razor Kitsune Cammy edition and im absolutely loving it for my PS5!
I’m mulling one over. How is it holding up for you?
@@nickhem12 couldn't be happier with My purchase! Make sure u get either the Cammy or Chun Li versions. The artwork just makes u appreciate it that much more!
Damn no love for fight sticks?? Can’t bring myself to want to try leverless ones
Do one for fighting pads
Are they all competition legal?
optical switches are switches that use a small laser instead of an actuating switch. when you press down on the button it stops the path of the laser & that is when the input is registered. mechanical switches require metal to metal contact, so the button actually has to travel the whole way for it to register. yes optical switch is actually the most consistent & responsive type of switch, but in reality it does not make you a better fighting game player lol. the technology is awesome & its amazing in their mice (prevents double clicking, suuuper crisp clicks 🤤), but the .1% boost in tech will not fix the fact u cant tech a grab or punish correctly.
the best leverless controller is the one you make yourself
Out of cardboard😶
@@ShikiRyougi05or wood
@@ShikiRyougi05 or a muffin package... mmm...
My main gripe against leverless is they are not totally meant for people coming from PC gaming. Like you are so used to the distance between the WASD keys yet most hitboxes use such spaced out directional buttons it throws away the muscle memory you built after years of PC gaming. And you'd think a mixbox is better, but imo mechanical keyboards are not very appropriate for fighting games either since you are missing out on a lot of technics like a slide from one button to another, multiple taps with two fingers on the same buttons etc, and they are quite noisy too
Bedankt
The problem with all of these prices and hitboxes are IF you play on PC. For Xbox lplayers like me, it's damn near impossible to find a hitbox. I understand you can just buy a brook board. But most people getting into these controllers are new players. Theyre not gonna know how open them up and mod them. I payed 200 + for my diy hitbox from Focus Attack. Bought the brook board separately from amazon and put it all together myself. But trying to find a pre built hitbox for xbox is impossible under 200.
I know this is irrelevant, but can any1 tell me the song’s name of the last 15s of the vid ?
Pretty sure that’s just Manon’s Theme from SF6
My old grown up in arcades ass just can't wrap my brain around these things LMAO
Which one is a good ps5 fighting stick
Those mavercade hitboxes look really cool, but as far as i can see theres no usb port for PS5 passthrough, fun for at home but for offline tournaments... :/
I know that this might be weird but may u please play KNOCKOUT! by hyun’s dojo
I cant find many ps5 leverless options on amazon. Can anyone recommend me something?
You need brook wingman fgc converter that will solve your problems
I dont understand . . Dont arcade cabinets still use a stick? What is the point of playing on these?
Didn't take long for hitbox to pretty much wipe out the regular arcade sticks to the point of redundancy.
Watch out for Paradis arcade I bought another jlf then them and it was really low quality and the green heatshield on the pcb was definitely from China because it was a sticker...I got a old brown board made green with a sticker and it didn't register inputs right
Why you put Faust' picture up for the Zappa. Zappa really is dead :'(
Yo can anyone recommend a controller for Xbox. I really want a lever less but I’m finding it impossible to find one compatible it’s all PlayStation and pc. The default controller is fine but I really want the lever less.
Is hitbox worth learning, or should I use an arcade stick? I want to use something other than my ps5 remote.
Your mileage may vary, but I really like my hitbox. I used to only use ps4 controllers, but my game is much better in most situations after a month of using it.
@@StriderZessei thanks. I'll keep this mind.
There are a lot of benefits that a leverless has over a stick, but it can be a preference. If a leverless does feel comfortable for you and you want to take time to get the hang of it, I’d say it truly is worth it. I do have a Razer Kitsune and highly recommend that for both PS5 and PC.
@@BlueMysticNinja I made my decision thanks once again. Can I use this leverless on any game like Guilty gear, Granblue fantasy, and Tekken?
@@Nameless-0_0- For all of those, YES!
I want the keeb brawler bad but its sold out
The best leverless is custom. The ergonomic benefits are enhanced even more with a custom layout.
🎉🎉🎉
should the title have the word leverless in it or do you just think sticks and pads are all sub optimal?
That mpress nano
why no stick tho ?
Any these for PS5 ?
Only a few are ps5 compatible naturally. Most leverless controllers need a brook adapter on console
Since it's all buttons anyways why don't they shrink it down and use something similar to keyboard keys so you get that quick responsiveness?? Also having things closer together would make it possible to input commands at a faster rate of speed... Maybe there's a reason they don't do it that way but you're already using buttons only. I don't see why they have to be so big and so far spaced apart?? And use membrane! Get that loud tactile ish about it here!!
They’re further apart because any closer would increase strain and could cause injury. The switches many of these use are closer to laptop keys than traditional arcade buttons Membrane feels bad and is unreliable
@@harrylane4 I'm not buying the injury part and it's just your opinion that membrane is inferior. Membrane offers tactile superiority because of its quick responsiveness. Mechanical switch offered literally zero competitive advantage and less precision. I don't know what's up with you mechanical switch snobs but they're trash mechanical switches are trash!
please can games just start allowing keyboard input on ps5…
Zappa! (shows Faust)
Great review! EVERYONE is ignoring the HAUTE BOARD (NOT the mini version either!) If you by chance get one, could you please review it?
Snackbox please restock 😭😭😭
They are rn go get them