Customer almost lost their engine in this '15 Audi Q5! The CAR WIZARD found the problem just in time
2023 ж. 24 Мам.
135 363 Рет қаралды
The Audi 2.0L engine is not known for its long-range durability. The owner of this 2015 Audi Q5 brought his SUV to the CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ just in the nick of time. A few more weeks and the engine would have been destroyed!
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Wizard I was a Technical service person for a very large car parts manufacturer(no names).I have seen my share of failures and triumphs. In my opinion you are doing a phenomenal job of explaining the cars potential problems,failure(s) and characteristic's for the make/models and year(s) of the vehicle. Please, for your viewers/subscribers & DIY'ers benefit keep up the great work.
I had a 2013 Q5 2.0T with 100k miles. Ran great but burnt a quart of oil a month. Wizard is spot on, it was due to piston rings. This is a very common problem on these engines. I changed pistons, rings and also decided to do the chains as i knew that would become an issue soon. I sold the vehicle shortly after as i noticed more and more parts were needing replacement. Audi parts ain't cheap.
The cause is simple, less CO2 emissions by lowering piston rings frictions etc... Blame the ecologists i€#@&! For that, you wanted your eco world, you got it, live with it and pay! (Nothing personal). Bye.
The parts are expensive, but built like knockoff flea market toys
@@jst_TV That's an insult to knockoff flea market toys!
Then again Audi had a TSB the following years which fixed the oil consumption issue/piston ring issue. My Q5 is at the same mileage with minimal oil burning. Half a quart at 5,000 miles, but I change my oil at that mileage with Redline to mitigate the wear.
Yep had the same issue with my 2013.
only vw can make timing chain engines which's chains need to be replaced sooner than a timing belt.
They do it on purpose
This is not sooner than a belt. Try twice as long. People think chains don't need replaced like belts do, but as the Wizard said before, that's a misconception.
On what car does the manufacturer say that the timing belt will last more than 130k miles?
Only VW can go from a belt to a chain and make reliability worse.
@@jaybeemhardscrote7466 most belts are rated at 105k miles. This chain needed replacing at 130k miles which is pretty terrible. The belt is much cheaper to replace, so they would’ve been better off keeping it belt driven
Most people don't keep up with maintenance or ignore potential problems like long cranks, erratic/rough idle or something that doesn't sound right. Typically it's usually too late for a simple repair versus a much more involved repair. In addition a proper maintenance schedule MUST be adhered to! I drove Saab's for 35 years and the biggest repair I had to any of the four I had was a water pump that was seeping ever so slowly. Got that repaired under factory warranty. I currently own a 2019 VW Arteon SEL Premium R-Line (purchased new) with the 2.0L 4-cylinder turbo charged TSI motor with an APR+ software tune. It's low mileage but all maintenance is done by time, not on a mileage basis. Last road trip of 820 highway miles got me 37.8 mpg. Typically I keep my cars 8-10 years. This one will be no exception. As with the Q5 in this video, a $2K repair is much cheaper than a $50-60K new car. Just saying.
@Patrick Bolmeyer Except..its been proven again and again that some vehicles are far more reliable than others To your point, some vehicles dont need a lot of babysitting and still seem to keep going and going
There's a difference between under engineering and regular maintenance. Not having razor thin oil rings helps.
Come back to this post 10 years later and tell us what blew up, thank you.
You’re very wrong I kept up with my 2013 A4 and always maintained it. It got to the point to where my 2022 S5 payment was less or equivalent to the amount of work my A4 needed (about $10,000-$12000 a year).
The problem is maintenence helps nothing at all with this issue. It's bad tolerance of the chain and it gets worse just by driving even if you maintain the vehicle every day. Either you get lucky and don't see this or you get unlucky. Lots of 1.2, 1.4 and some of the 2.0 TSI of this era had this issue. Should have been resolved at some point in time
2013 Audi A5 Owner with the 2.0T, owned it from 2013-2021 and put 117k miles, no issues at all with the engine. I did my own oil changes and brakes but did take it to a pro for major maintenance. it does take a lot of money to maintain and avoid issues though and many will skimp on maintenance
Thank you. I’ve owned five Audis in my lifetime. Never had any issues.
I’ve owned Volkswagens (along with Toyotas, Hondas, Chryslers, and Chevrolets in my family). Never a problem. Key is frequent oil changes. The one thing about VW/Audi is that their engine defect rates are high. But that’s what the warranty is for. I personally haven’t had an issue.
I had issues with a toyota hilux manual transmission and what seemed like noisy valves. I bought it used though which I've found to be way worse than the brand of car you buy. Buy new and drive it into the ground, unless you're the guy that seems to have a knack for ruining cars and then selling them to me. If that's the case whatever you drive is going to fall apart on you.
@@sasothestrategizerim on my second. First was iffy but it was due to bad owners not keeping the car up. My second is amazing. Has the gen 1 piston rings and doesnt burn a drop of oil. 230 000kms and it runs great
When a timing chain has a shorter service life than a timing belt in even some economy cars, you know that it really has been nickel and dimed by a manufacturer's bean counters.
Designed for PCP contracts where you trade the car in after three years.
You’re not wrong, but I think it is compounded by poor oil maintenance. Never understood why people hate belts so much. They work well.
@@briantii I can't think of a reason to prefer a rubber belt that can snap with age over metal chains which almost never need servicing besides guides/tensioners.
@@KrisThatsit Because they don't last forever either and replacing the guides or tensioner is frequently much more of a pain than replacing a belt. Thankfully the EA888 engine in this video is a fairly easy chain replacement. Also a belt can be quieter and doesn't really suffer stretch so it's more consistent throughout its life. I do not know this for a fact but I am fairly certain the reason most manufacturers are going to chains these days are because they need variable timing on both cams anyway and they are able to easily adapt / adjust for chain wear when in the past they needed a belt to ensure it stayed consistent. Personally I have 4 cars - 2 with belts and 2 with chains. I don't have a strong preference either way.
What timing belts are lasting 135k miles?
Wizard is correct, if you see how many parts they have in stock, that will tell you how common a repair is for that vehicle part. Found this out, owning several BMWs.
Did you encounter engine issues with your BMWs? Would love to know your experience on reliability.
@@VioletGiraffe Listen to Scotty Kilmer, he’ll tell everything you want to know
@@jeffzekas Thank you!
@@VioletGiraffe kzhead.info/sun/YJWgZ9KPjGN5nJ8/bejne.html
@@jeffzekas Yeah if you want to learn nothing useful at all listen to Scotty Kilmer. He doesn't know anything about BMWs, or anything that isn't a Toyota from the previous millenium. He's scared of BMWs and Audis because it's all black magic to him, he doesn't know how any of it works.
That tensioner has no more clicks to give. BTW, I think the failures at or around 100k are by design.
They’re not designed to fail, just not designed to last. 100k is EoL as far as Audi is concerned.
The service schedule recommends changing a cam chain every 90kmiles. So this had done 1.5 times the distance. Lack of maintenance, end of.
@@davidweaver4702 On most engines, the cam chain lasts the entire engine life.
@@dougelick8397 Many engines also last the entire life of the chain.
@@davidweaver4702 Yup, plus the stretch can be attributed to the owner following the absurd dealer OCI schedule.
I have seen on other VW/Audi channels the the EA888 3 generation no longer have the timing and oil consumption issue.
So are Audi/VW coming to the party and funding the timing chain replacements for these older engines?????
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq Do you... not understand how a warranty works?
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq Usually if something fails around 100,000 miles manufacturers don't back them up.
@@jeffk464 But other manufacturers HAVE done that..... it's just an opportunity for VAG to try to recoup some reputation for the cost (to them) of spare parts???
Hope so, I love my Audi A4😂🎉
Hey Wizard & Mrs Wizard, thanks for sharing another informative video!! 🙂👍👍
You guys are the best, straightforward no Fluff. Thank you.
Wizard, Just found your channel. In watching a couple of other videos and saw Mrs Wizard. Like many of us, you married well above your pay grade. Congratulations my friend. Love your calm, cool demeanor no matter what your handed.
If you want to skip "this is a steering wheel, this is a seat.." just skip to 4:42.
Nice one!
My father's car, a 1968 Triumph 2000 MK1 has a timing chain. It has never been changed and the car has done >800.000 kms. It runs sweetly as new after 54 years with the only major job being the rebuilding of carburetors (diaphragms and needle). It will sound cliche but : Honestly they do not build them like they used to !
Thats wild, maybe its oiled? Youd think the links would get stiff over time
That’s a motorcycle chain, basically. Over-engineered.
I have a workshop manual for one sitting on my desk. Must have belonged to a previous employee.
the truimph 2.0 and 2.5 six cylinders were one of the most reliable and durable engines ever made. you can beat the day lights out of them, but with regular oil changes they just keep going and going and going.
It will have a duplex chain. BL went to a single chain in the early 70s to save money.
thank you so much for the honest review, Wizard. awesome video!!
There are people on these forums that argue when I say that I bought a 2001 VW jetta 1.8T brand new and it was a nightmare to own as far as breaking down constantly and needing a ton of repairs. Their argument is that that was 22 years ago. I tell them NOTHING has changed except that Some VWs are built in Chattanooga TN. That did nothing to change the quality durability and reliability of VW or Audi. They are simply garbage as they age. Everything from both brands. German brands as a whole are expensive to maintain and repair and they aren't made for the long haul at all. If you must have one.... lease it!
Gotta love those interference fit engines, water cooled alternators, turbos with their own secondaty water pumps...as a very humble engineering prof once said, "gasoline is the cheapest part of the engine." And he happened to be a combustion engineer with two PhDs from the Swiss Federal Institute who had a CV longer than his arm. And still favored plain V8 engines.
Das Auto-that was VW’s motto
Complexity destroys any chance of reliability in many cases
@@farken7467 Toyota has a habit of figuring it out.
Who was that guy? I studied thermodynamics in Switzerland around 2005 to 2009 with a professor who had the same philosophy. He also predicted the dieselgate scandal and was aware of "cheat devices" way before it became public. In a nutshell: the higher your cylinder pressure gets, the dirtier the exhaust gasses become.
Yeah, back in the day of timing belts they made non interference engines, with chains I guess they figure what the heck.
Bought a new Mk IV golf with a 1.8 when they offered the 10 year 100k warranty. It died long before that. It was the best feeling to ask them why they were handing me a bill when they fixed it. My ex had been driving it and dropped it off, and they didn't think they were dealing with the original owner. My Mk II was a better car.
I once had a Bora (Jetta) 150bhp PD diesel, all based on Mk IV Golf stuff. I managed to stretch it out to 150,000 miles, but the things that went wrong with it were ridiculous. I shut the passenger door once, the window dropped into the door and shattered. The most expensive was the cam shaft, which VW had apparently made of cheese. The lobes weren't hardened properly, they'd wear, and then the worn surface would eat through the tappets and then it's boom boom time. I caught that in time before it let go, but only just. Never had a VW since...
The MKiv golf was such a cool looking car though i wanted one so bad when they came out
@@dtmain yeah, I liked them too. A real shame they messed up that awesome 150pd engine. So much torque! Mk V was my favourite to look at, never had one.
I love how you order the whole kit. Pretty awesome it even comes with new covers.
Mrs Wizard always does a great job ! You too Mr Wizard ! Thanks ❤
That's crazy the chain life is so short, almost the same as a rubber belt, just thousands more to fix
That's a real shame because the 1.8 TSI engine, I never had any issues with mine and my VW Jetta. I drove that thing 186,000 miles and only ever had to change the cam phase sensor at 178k. All I ever did to the engine was change the oil regularly and changed the air filter. It even had the factory spark plugs! Then again, mine was a 2014 which got the replacement timing chain tensioner. zero issues with no starts or slow to start up until I traded it in last year
Also not trying to haul a massive SUV with a tiny highly stressed engine.
@@Beer_Dad1975 yeah, but you have to figure in, these SUV's these days don't have a ton of steel in them like your old 80's Suburban, I'll bet the Audi SUV's only weigh a few hundred pounds more than the Jetta, since they went to an all aluminum body back in 2010
I have the 1.4L in my Jetta. Excellent gas mileage. Has never let me down!
@@Celician83 1850kg for the 2014 Q5 vs 1170kg for the Jetta of the same year - so quite a big difference (around 1500lb I think for US readers?) - plus often people like to fit tow bars to these mid sized SUV's and tow their crap around. Actually gotta say the Jetta is really doing well to keep the weight down! Personally I'll stick with my Lexus 4.6 V8 😀
@@Beer_Dad1975 you have to remember, only the high end model Jetta gets the 2.0TSI, the base model Q5 gets that engine. The higher end model gets the V6
MRs wizard does a banger job on these interior walkthroughs
Thanks for the video. Immediately after viewing I sprinted out to my Audi started it and listened very carefully to the engine to see if I could hear any timing chain rattle - none. Car is 2014 A4 B8.5 with 115000 trouble free miles.
In Europe these things are predominantly sold with the 2 lit. TDI, which is far a more reliable engine. In most cases only common modern diesel problems occur, which can be relatively easily fixed on this side of the pond…
Wizard, and scotty , saving people from certain disappointment. And 1000s in repairs
Scotty is a hack
Scotty doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Wizzard is wayyyyy smarter
You can also use a scan tool to measure the phase position change of the intake bank cam. Look up videos on OBD eleven measuring chain stretch. And yes, I know it’s not really stretching.
one thing i have grown to enjoy seeing is Car Wizard and his cool shirts. The Skynet one is awesome and in past videos ive enjoyed seeing your Star Wars shirts. Big Star Wars fan here . Anyways love all your content especially your Stories . Thank you Car Wizard 🧙♂️ 🚘 🔧
The only vehicle I ever changed a timing chain in was a 74 Caddy with over 200k miles. Cost $300 to replace, yes decades ago 😮. The simple crank to cam chain rarely fails.
My Nissan with the venerable VQ30DE engine in it now has ~225 thousand miles on the clock. Nothing has been done to the engine. It runs like new and doesn't burn oil.
@@jamesrandy5857 they have both
@james randy the timing chain runs off the crank to the front of the cam in the V block valley. That cam pushes pushrods.
@james randy They had a short timing chain to go to the cam shaft. Between the camshaft and valves are push rods.
Volvo B series engines had timing gears. Here's one with 3 million miles...
Customer: Take my Audi to the Junkyard! Me: You mean the Audi Dealership?
Another cool and informative video from you master wisard... as always. Thank you! 🙂👌👌💯
That was soooooo well explained. Thank u so much!!
Sweet video! One thing…you’re able to put one of the updated guides from the gen3 in the gen2 (found in the A4, A5, Q5, etc.). I hope someone sees this and it helps since it does extend the life of these gen2 2.0s!
So is a 2015 GTI gen 3, I think it is. crosses fingers
Similar story with my 13' VW GLI; - Timing chain tensioner issue prevalent in the EA888 engine (2.0T) which causes the timing chain to suddenly loosen and then over the course of about 3 or 4 engine cranks --> Self destructs the upper half of the engine block (bc naturally all the valves and fuel intake is integrated into the head where it's all one piece) - Completely grenaded the engine, to where I was actually looking at purchasing another vehicle - Ended up being classified under the class action lawsuit for the timing chain tensioner issue, but according to VW, because my car was in the process of being fixed during the 5 year powertrain warranty expiring, and my car having 58k miles on it --> I would still need to pay up 30% of the cost of the repairs which were $1.3k - Took about a month and a half for them to fix my car and get it back on the road bc the "engine block in my car was low volume" Other than that, I keep up on the maintenance every single year, get it serviced ahead of the mileage recommendation, always get my DSG serviced ahead of the 40k mile intervals, and I take fantastic care of this car in general. Will NEVER be buying another VW product again, especially one with a VW 4 cylinder. Next daily car will probably be a Lexus RC. Am quite annoyed over German vehicles at this point.
It's a singular issue with this kind of engine with a timing chain, it was a quality issue of the supplier, they used bad tooling. Regular early oil changes seem to help a little bit. Newer repair sets seem to work trouble free (new chain design). Anyway there are a lot of reliable german cars out there, but you need to research which model and engine.
I was a fanboy, but NEVER again will I own VW products.
Great work, as always!👌
Wizard, I researched this and bought an A4 allroad a year and a half a go. Those are made in Germany and it's CPO. Bought this 2019 with 36,000km on it. I chased it for six weeks as it was traded in and wholesold twice. Funny enough, no change in price from the private to dealer to the next dealer. It has less than 60K km now and another 2+years of CPO. And coming from a 2006 A6 with over 300K km, was a good choice for my daughter to drive.
I wonder how many of these problems are due to poor oil changes or long intervals. I’ve had 3 cars with the 2.0T and never had any of these issues.
You may have had good luck but there is a reason they have the reputation they do. I love the ea888 gen 3 but i also know its shortcomings
@@2strokeFORever That’s what I’m wondering. Luck, maintenance or inherent problems.
Yes I think lack of oil changes has a big part to do with it just look at that timing chain cover... but each to their own
2.0T isn't that old. Why so many? (three)
Any 200k? Probably not...
I just sold a Q5 today, glad it's off my hands!
I remember my 82 LeBaron with the 2.6l Mitsubishi lemon. When I filled it I always had to remember to 'top up' the oil with a quart or so 😄
Wizard, great explanation, another terrific inform ! 😊😊😊
I’m still confused Wizard, you said to buy a VW Tiguan pre-2018. It has the VAG 2.0, but it has a haladex, not a transfer case. I bought a 2017 Tiguan and now you’re telling me it’s crap. Your video said to buy it on your “buy this, not that” series.
hehe now you're learning the truth!
@@klwthe3rd It wouldn't be so bad if the Wizard didn't recommend to buy the VW 2.0 Tiguan. He said the engines were great in the video. Now he says they're garbage.
So really it's a lack of servicing problem. I have had a lot of Audi and Never have a problem I service more than regular. My Car now it Audi S4 TDI
TDI i think is beter built my family has one with 300k miles
It's the oil rings, that's usually the problem on 1.8 and 2.0 I have done a couple of them. There are upgraded aftermarket pistons with a different design and I have used them. It works very well.
Thanks for this great info Car Wizard!
I’d be curious to know how often the oil was changed over the past 133,000 miles and if the car regularly had the bejesus hooned out of it.
I bet it got the 10k mile schedule done with the finest oil and filters the quick lube place had. Chains don’t stretch- they wear and wear increases with poor lubrication. That white oil filter on the top should tell you that it wasn’t using OEM or quality filters. The good ones I know are all black.
"if the car regularly had the bejesus hooned out of it." that's the secret to have cars last. give it beans every once in a while (or every day).
@@briantii agree totally with you; did you check out the color of the oil/sludge on the lower timing cover? - nasty; the worst thing manufacturers are doing especially porsche / audi/ vw is going to these 10k oil change intervals.; i stay with 5k mi intervals and it is worth the $100 maintenance.
@@joelfox8754 Yep! Well maintained engines don’t look like that. I’m with you on 5k changes especially for DI turbo cars. My N52 BMW is fine with 10k changes… EA888? Nope.
Some of the newer cars have updated chain tensioners. Maybe that started around 2014? Many believe the crazy oil consumption is caused by the long oil change intervals and the direct injection design. We're doing our oil changes at about 5,000 miles now. No further than that.
Oil consumptions comes from piston rings. VAG fucked up the oil ring design, they coke up so bad, that they don't really wipe the oil down anymore and even break or burn away. It's a common issue for these engines. They are just overall bad by design.
@@julianh9347 2015 MY and newer shouldn’t have piston ring issues due to a TSB on the EA888. Oil consumption is very minimal if the OTI is at 4,000 to 5,000 miles with a high quality synthetic. Many owners on forums attest to this.
@@_IMNNO I know that there are replacement pistons + rings for these engines, but there's still plenty of them out there but they simply have that higher oil consumption, coming with pcv/egr tech. And the direct injection making it not much better for the valves, carbon build up and all that stuff that has never been heard of before with port injection systems.
@@julianh9347 The EA888 and hundreds of other engine designs use only DI (expect for the EURO which can use both) Carbon build up is not inherently a VAG flaw. The only way around this is walnut blasting or investing in a PI kit. At least the EA888 and other Honda engines which only use DI has huge support which can mitigate the issue. Can’t really say the same for the Korean brands. It’s just the way the industry headed with forced induction motors before everything is headed towards EV.
@@_IMNNO I'm aware that the carbon buildup is not exclusive to VAG engines. It's a general problem with modern engine designs that has been shoved at the consumer at their expenses when it is clear as to where the problem even originates from. It's a design flaw dictated by emissions regulations.
The b5 Audi a4 1.9 tdi from 1998 (90 HP) was their best car till today!Bulletproof car!And Rs4 from the same era of course.
Thank you for yet another crucial Public Service Announcement, Mr. and Mrs. Wizard! I'm really quite surprised to see that much stretch. Is there an aftermarket chain that may be more robust, or is that just normal wear for any timing chain of that type?🤔 Good episode, you two! ✌️❤️🙂🇨🇦
time to clean the bird poop🤣
These engines in their first and second generation had a lot of issues. But the third gen made everything better. And actually at its current state these engines are very very reliable. Have multiple cars with these engines. Ranging from 60,000 miles to 200,000 miles. All needed nothing but basic maintenance from dealer. In VW cars, from 2015 3rd gen engine was used. Not sure about Audi but post 2016 all cars had 3rd Gen engines. That’s why problems are very rare in those model years.
Ea888 gen 3 still burns oil and has many other problems.
@@rachelgreen1368 still get the $1,500 nut shell blast! lol. Guess they should've went with the 'baby injectors' like Toyota to spare their customers' bank accounts? But NO! Pay Again!
@@rachelgreen1368 do you own one? I do. Daily driver actually. Same oil level after 10,000 miles when the oil was out it. Depends on how you maintain your car.
@@timewa851 100,000 miles and no significant carbon build up on mine. No issues. The head designed was changed on 3rd Gen. unless poorly maintained and poor quietly fuel used, carbon build up is not an issue.
@@rachelgreen1368 Do you actually only one? I have a 2018 Audi Q5. Change the oil every 5000 miles. Currently at 72,000 miles. No issues. Just sayin’…
All over boosted engines seem to live short lives. 10 years ago a car like this would have a 3.0L V6 Turbo.
Sure would. And, the environmental cost of early scrapping is a lot higher than the cost of running a reliable car for longer... A high boost engine can be reliable, it just needs the design development to achieve it (and few manufacturers seem to bother). There's a number of Japanese engine designs that run reliably, even if boosted way beyond their factory spec! What's that Honda engine, 4 cylinder Asomethingsomething? People are boosting that to 1000bhp. Ok, that's probably excessive, but it's amazing that it survives at all. It would probably cope with a 10,000 oil service interval at 400bhp... Getting the life of a timing chain as wrong as this is school boy stuff though. If VW's mechanical engineers can't even work out the loadings on a simple timing chain and pick a chain to suit, it's perhaps not surprising that they can't make anything else last. It's perhaps not surprising that they don't understand the effect of increased cylinder pressures on piston rings... In recent years / decade there's been some real howlers in vehicle engineering that, really, there's no excuse for. The Ford / Citroen / Peugeot TDV6 is the classic example of this - a crankshaft almost guaranteed to fail. In Land Rovers in particular this has been really bad. It's almost like no one bothers reviewing designs anymore; they get their CAD drawings looking nice and pretty, probably rely on a load of computational analysis, shove it into production. But what they really need is an old timer looking at it working out "not enough bearing surface on the crank", or, "will suffer lubrication starvation", or, "insufficient margin here against manufacturing variations". All such feedback is going to make the engine slightly longer / wider / heavier, but what do they want? Junk, or a high selling classic? Manufacturers like Toyota must look upon the mistakes of their rivals and wonder, "how can they get it so, so wrong?". Ok, not even Toyota are perfect, but...
My 1988 Audi 5000 turbo had nearly everything break except the 5-cylinder engine and the turbo. I had the computer tweaked to increase the maximum turbo boost (also needed a stiffer wastegate spring). Transmission broke but engine and turbo didn’t.
@@abarratt8869 it's the plastic breather system too. Gets blown out by stomping on it all the time. have family who love VAG cars. They ditch them every seven- nine years lol. Gerbage.
Wow thanks for making this video!! I was just looking at this exact SUV 2015 with 100k for $10000. I did not know they burn oil. I will look for something else thats not on your list of bad engines. Thanks again.
Liqui Moly MoS2 oil additive with every oil change does wonders to slow oil burning/ ring seepage on the 2.0t. The Cereteq additive is also great.
Technically, timing chain does not 'stretch' and use of such term is incorrect. Each chain link pin wears out chain link bore, this increases its (bore) diameter. Each link's pin also wears out and its outside diameter decreases. Combination of both worn components; elongation and pin wear of timing chain tolerances multiplied by number of links and pins is what causes chain circumference area to increase versus unworn counterpart. Chain is not stretched but rather worn out of specified tolerance.
So, from what you’re saying, we can deduce that if they used higher quality materials, the chains would last longer, but evidently VW Audi doesn’t care that much to make the chain last a lifetime, like in the older cars we’ve owned.
What you just explained literally means stretched. Something becoming longer than it originally was quite literally means it was stretched. Doesn't matter the way it became that way
@@tehfalcon the next time I stretch my arms out, since I know that my bones in my arms didn’t get longer, I’ll just say I wore my arms out of specified tolerance. I’m going for a walk now to wear my legs out of specified tolerance. Whew, I am so relieved to not make that mistake anymore.
@@jeffzekas It's a *MAINTENANCE* part. You replace the chain at the same time you replace the guards due to *WEAR* on *BOTH* sets of parts.
@@new2000car I suggest you open a dictionary and learn that there are two meanings to stretching
This car would have been running rough for quite a while before the owner decided it was time to have it looked at. Am I right?
And someone really likes using that turbo.
Yes, abused not faulty but run to edge of its life.
Yes you are right, MIL for cam timing would have been on long time ago plus rattle from chain on a hot start.
of course!
@@mds2465 rough running complaints will get you the brush off
Yes, these engines need preventative maintenance at 80K plus miles. We have a 2014 Eos convertible (55K miles) with the 2.0 Turbo. We will replace timing kit and water pump at 90K. Also be sure to do the DSG transmission service every 45K miles. Wife's dream car and we will keep forever. Past VWs we've owned. 2009 Eos Convertible. 2007 Passat. 2005 New Beetle Convertible. 2000 New Beetle. Yep, very familiar with VW issues. No more VWs for us. Thank you Car Wizard for your great content.
Thank you sir for that info I was going this weekend to get a Q5. I’m going to run far far away now
What he said... (2014 A6 w/2L turbo) Almost like magic, when it hit 100K miles it started eating oil. Everything else about the car was fantastic. Interior, exterior, ride was great. Buyer beware I suppose. On the other hand, these four bangers aren't like older engines. Rated 220 HP out of a 2 liter engine is impressive in my book. Still it's a shame they don't last longer.
And they go way beyond 220 HP with no issues (apart from those the stock engine would get as well). Stage 1 - just an ECU reflash - is 300+ HP.
How often did you change the oil??
Agree about the timing chain quality but otherwise the 2.0 TFSI is a decent engine with good power and fuel economy, at least from 2014 onwards. Oil burning issue was fixed late 2013 with updated piston and ring designs and carbon build up on the intake side was reduced by around the same time with a updated PCV design. Also carbon build up issues are the same for GDI engines of all brands unless they have some sort of port injection combination. Most important to keep this engine healthy, you need to do oil changes, at least every 10000 miles, don't buy into the long service interval bullshit that kills your engine internals.
Hell, 10,000 miles is being very generous. I'd never go over 5,000
3k miles or 3 month whatever comes first, get an oil extractor and it takes 15-20 minutes. 10k mile oil change is what fuels this problem amigo
@@not_a_samsquamsh6777 I’m already debating getting the oil changed soon. New with 2,240 miles. Was gonna do it at 3k since it’s a newer engine instead of the 10k they say to do.
@@wadeepperson6906 I'd do it. Every owners manual i've ever seen mentions on a brand new engine, replacing the oil for the first time after a few hundred to 1k miles. You'll have a little more material in the oil because of the initial break-in.
That is not a dip stick tube. It is for the oil extractor tube. You check the oil level using the MMI device by selecting CAR, then SETTINGS, then OIL LEVEL. Let's face it, these things are driven by fairly well off men and women who aren't about to get their hands dirty. Additionally, if the oil level is low, the MMI will tell you all about it.
Great information and detailed explanation.
Well done, thanks. Why do the newer 2.0 Tiguans seem to have less timing chain issues?
I see that the production year is 2015 and i'm like but thats the third gen of EA888 and they are very reliable. But then i see that it is not EA888 3rd gen but 2nd gen, i live in EU and for us Gen 2 was produced from 2008 to 2012 and the we got the 3rd gen which has no major problems(sad that in US they kept making 2nd gen for so long)
The burnt oil sludge inside the engine means they were using Jiffy lube junk oil so they should expect premature engine failures. The engine is designed for premium synthetic oil like Pennzoil Platinum. Changed every 5k it will lubricate chain link pivots so they dont wear as fast as this. Turbo bearings and rings are also wearing too fast with Havoline oil and 10-15k oil changes. Steel timing chains don't stretch, but it elongates due to worn link pivot pins. Good oil stops the wear.
These engines are crap, I’m sorry but they are. You could use Amsoil and these things would still self destruct by 150k.
@@hokie9910 well they already got reamed by Audi once, they're not going to put Euro spec super Sperm Whale oil in it. They're broke dammit!
Never use general oil for a turbo. People are unaware that oil gets twice as hot if it's cooling a turbo
@@timothygibney159A quality Dino oil will work fine as proved in turbo diesels for years, but you need to keep it changed more frequently. I’m a synthetic guy as well, but I’ve seen some diesel fords and dodgesthat ran basic Rotella for 500k miles and they are clean internally.
@@hokie9910 Don't conventional oils oxidize into sludge increasingly with temperature?
Oil level is checked through MMI, don’t need a trip to dealership, I tell people to buy a dipstick for a VW Tiguan. Once the engine gets the newer piston and rings there usually is never a problem with oil consumption and will go for a very long time. In Canada there was an extended warranty on oil consumption.
Thanks for the warning. I have a VW CC with the 2.0 T engine. I only have 77,000mi. on it now. This was very helpful. Now I know what to lookout for.
Get rid of it
I have a 2011 Audi A4 Avant currently with 161,000 mi on it. Timing chain tensioner failed about 120,000 mi. I put a Chinese head on it with a timing kit from ECS tuning. Surprisingly, the head that came from China had Volkswagen/ Audi parts all on it been running great since except for now the turbo needs to be changed but I love the car otherwise. All the work I did myself My timing chain cover started getting munched up on the 2011 Audi A4 Avant I also added a dipstick to mine part number 06J-115-611E in case anyone else wants to do it and surprisingly my Audi only consumes about one quart of oil every 7,000 mi
Even the Chinese knock off parts made as cheap as possible are better quality than the OEM Audi parts!
Kudos for turning your own wrenches.
@@Beer_Dad1975 The chinese VW/Audi parts are almost always out of the VW FAW factory in china, so still OEM quality.
@@tehfalcon that's what I figured especially since it was all vag parts installed in the head
You briefly mention "upgraded" parts around the 14-minute mark. I'd like to see a video about these problem-solver or fix-it parts. Which ones are worth it? Which ones are better left stock? Years ago I had an S10 and my mechanic swore by Moog problem-solver parts for my ball joints, pitman arm, and tie rods. Would love the Wizard's input.
VW / Audi updated most of these parts themselves over the years to the point where problems are no longer very common.
Deutsche Auto Parts and HumbleMechanic are two very good channels on KZhead for Audi/VW issues. Especially the infamous 2.0T. No offense to the Wizard, but these guys are Audi/VW gurus.
I learnt how bad Audi build quality was in the early 2000s with a Golf GTI, again with a BMW about 5 years ago and then an Audi rental 2 years ago that broke down blocking the airport rental returns😅. Only catastrophic internal engine failure I've ever experienced was the BMW and I've driven over a half million miles . All my buddies think I'm stupid but they either don't drive any miles, or the BMW guy does, but has spent over 10k keeping his 335i going. It's back in the garage now.
I already basically started saving money for this repair in about 80-100k miles from now. It’s currently only got 2k. A VW Atlas is what I have currently I wanted to do the v6 but it lagged so much going uphill till you got the rpm near the rpm it says to avoid when it’s new. I do gotta add my wife had this Tiguan that the pcv failed and it started shooting out oil. Cracked the pan lost nearly all the oil. It still got her home and it runs super smooth since the thing got fixed. I was shocked it’s alive.
I agree these Q5's do look very sharp. I debated getting one of these in 2015 and still think they look good, but I went with a used 2013 Mazda cx5 instead. Its now got 178,000 miles on it and other than oil, brake, and tire changes, and replacing the front lower control arms, the cx5 still runs like a clock and it does not burn any oil. Sure its a bit underpowered being a non turbo 2.0, but it's been very reliable. Also change my transmission fluid and filter at 100k and still shifts good. But yah German cars are very well styled but most of them are only good to lease. I wouldn't own one unless its a model proven to have very few issues
Mine was a great vehicle, got it when they were brand new, lost it last year to a deer impact. Only repair was replacing 2 or 3 ignition coils. Had about 120k or so on it. Coworker first year Skyactive Mazda 3 too, his transmission pan rusted out and lost all fluid while driving. New pan and a few weeks later, same thing to the oil pan. Vehicle is still his daily driver and that was over a year ago and 30k miles.
Be gald you bought asian and not a BMV or VW pure d crap can not beat honda toyota ect ect for reliability. Oh and dont get me started on merc,
Japanese makes like Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Mazda and Subaru are pretty bullet proof. Nissan was in this bucket list before Renault screwed them over
Actually ,the Audi Q5 is not made in Germany but in San José Chiapa, Mexico. Don't know if that has anything to do with the problems it has , or just that the owner didn't do required maintenance of it like he should have !
@@gregorygant4242 if I am not wrong, there is another VW/Audi plant in Eastern Europe that caters for Asia/Australia
Is 100,000 miles unreasonable for a timing chain service? Timing belts generally need doing way before that. That’s just part and parcel of owning a modern car.
Most cars with a timing chain don't need to have it serviced. The few that come to mind are these VW 2.0 engines, the GM 3.6 and Land Rover/ Jag 5.0. I'm sure there are others but timing chain issues to me are unacceptable because most cars don't have the problem. Its poor engineering.
The general assumption is that if an engine has a timing chain, you never need to change it. Basically, a properly designed timing chain should mean that, when you dismantle the engine after a lot of miles, the chain should be good as new. In fact, it's a good idea to keep the old chain after a high-miles rebuild (assuming no stretch or damage); it'll have been polished by the guides, whereas a new one would simply be a bit rougher and wear out the guides quicker. With per-book servicing, chain wear / stretch is inexcusable and has no upsides whatsoever. It's acceptable that the chain guides will wear; they're an essential part of the timing chain system, because you need them to keep the chain in-line with the chain sprockets. If the chain can wobble on the sprockets (e.g. because of braking / road bumps / etc), then it's going to wear quite badly. But you're generally looking for the guides to last a pretty long time (at least long enough that you're going to be doing an engine rebuild anyway, so it's done as part of that). Audi aren't unique in fouling the design up though. On the early BMW N47 diesel this assumption meant that they put the timing gear on the back of the engine, right up against the bulkhead, because "you'll never need to change it, right?". Wrong - they messed up that timing chain, and it was an engine out job to fix it. As they'd sold so many of them, they fought tooth and nail against issuing a recall (it was prone to letting go at speed, potentially leading to a nasty accident). Eventually, when they'd virtually all blown up, they did a recall... The revised chain / guides design has been fine. Having said all that, the absolute *best* design is a gear train from the crank to the cams. That's really expensive, so not often done. I think McLaren do on some of theirs, and I think Gordon Murray / Cosworth have done that on his new T50 / T33. Done properly, that'll never, ever wear out (or at least, the rest of the engine will wear out first).
@@dannykelly3617 Objectively false. Manufacturers tell you to replace your chain 80-120k miles.
@@abarratt8869 Your "general assumption" is incorrect.
@@tim3172 Nonsense. No one replaces their timing chain for no reason. Ive owned many vehicles well over 100k with zero timing chain issues. Two right now and it would be insane to do all that work for zero benefit. Poorly designed engines have the issue and thats why people complain. If it was standard maintenance as you suggest there would not be a video about it.
You are fighting a losing battle, Audi does not want this Engine to last this is heroic efforts for a Doomed Engine !
I have a 2.0Slow and it's been a great engine so far with mt. 175k miles. It starts slow on the freeway but runs as fast as all other cars once it catches up. Just scheduled maintenance, oil changes sooner than scheduled by far, tune ups every 30-50k miles. It has tons of room to work on it. No turbo to worry about.
3,000 mile synthetic oil changes will help those tensioners go a long way.
Yup, plus a low friction and high Noack oil helps aswell.
@@_IMNNO , this is why BMW's would have so many motor issues because people were doing 10K oil changes.
@@elmayimbe5094 I always do 5K oil changes on my bmw and she has 104K miles and running beautifully I stress out when I go over 5K miles to get to my appointment there’s no way I can drive my car to 10K miles of dirty filthy oil I’d be so stressed out
this is the gen 2 ea888.. not the best.. the gen 3 and 4 actually are good reliable engines and don’t have the timing chain tensioner issues also, there is digital oil level readout in the infotainment system
When I was at Vw spec is of the clicks is 7 or above it's needs replaced asap but we recommended them once we saw 5 or 6
My 2.0t is running amazingly. 230 000kms. Doesn't burn a drop of oil. Reason they burn oil is like most brands, they say 10 000kms between oil changes. I change my oil every 3500kms. My audi is also boosted running 15lbs of boost. Stock turbo All those issues you stated in the video are simple to fix if your a backyard mechanic.
I'd love to see wizards opinion on the 3.0T supercharged motor, while not immune to timing chain drama, it is a much more solid engine that responds well to mods
He’s a hater so he probably would point out all the small flaws in it
@@nate8867 He's not a hater lol. He's praised on Audi for going to 200k, but also said the owner took good care of it. He just points out the issues these cars have and he's right, these cars are failing where other cars don't.
the 3.0t in my 2013 s5 has almost 80000 and runs great so far only thing ive replaced on it is a front axle which was 127 bucks, seat back release cable 20 bucks and truck release solenoid 49 bucks
Lots of my family members had VW, my folks did as well. Then '93 came and we got the mk.III of the Golf and the Jetta here in North America. That's when VW became crap. After that, only us and one of my uncle got '93 and above VWs. At one point, our Golf had an electric issue that was so problematic, that the dealership told us to never come back to them with that car. We kept that car for a while, cuz mom didn't want to sell it as it was a diesel car. Biggest mistake my folks did with a car.
Had a nice 90 GLI 2.0 16 valve CIS motronic jetta. Great car, last of the good VW's
Neighbors Tiguan just had its engine seize yesterday morning. Good old 2.0s
Just got home after being locked out of my 09 A6, key was in my backpack (proximity key), threw my bag in the back seat, closed the door and the car locked and decided it was done doing the whole proximity key thing. And then I finally get home and see this in my feed 😂
They advertised timing chain over timing belt as "maintenance free" over the whole car life. Haha. But in other perspective: 133.000 miles IS in fact a whole car life in Germany. There are not many people in Germany that put more than 133.000 miles on their car before buying a new car.
There are plenty of people (including me) who consider a car with 150,000km to be barely broken in... What happens to all the old cars? Off to eastern Europe?
@@nicholasvinen Or the Netherlands, new and heavy cars are expensive. Quick test is day light runnings lights introduced in 2011 I see a lot without them. Small European cars have a timing belt to be replaced every 60.000 km (37282 miles) not cheap either.
Thank you Wizard and Mrs. Sadly, I've owned Audi's and loved them, and worked for an Audi dealership. But like all other Euro-Junk, do not buy when outside warranty.
Agreed
I would never ever buy a European car that’s used and out of warranty. You have no idea what the last owner didn’t do when it came to maintenance.
@@BabyBugBug Me, neither.
Also - European cars aren’t junk. They’re extremely precisely engineered and require VERY religiously kept maintenance. No, they’re not forgivable like a Toyota. But they’re much more fun to drive than any Toyota I’ve ever had.
@@BabyBugBug That's good. Most individuals would buy a North American vehicle rather than a European one.
Good information, Thanks a lot Wizard
I have a audi TTS 2.0 tfsi from 2008 tuned stage2 (345 hp) drive it like a mad man for seven years no problems at all with the engine .must say driving the car always nicely warm
Thanks Wizard. This vomit was actually on my list of possibly 3 small SUVs to buy. I have ticked it off now, permanently. Thank you for saving me from financial ruins.
you want to know where their piggy bank was now you know it's in the ciguartte tray🤣
I'd be interested in what oil change interval they've been using.
I'm sure it's 10k-mile OCIs. Not good for long cam chain life...
@@aeroman5239 that's what I was thinking. Like from the low mileage I would even say 15k. I never go over 5k.
Every 100,000 miles, why?
Good save, way to stay vigilant!
This is about 3k to have done if you're in the PNW and taking it to a specialized euro shop. Also if it burns a lot of oil - before looking at having the pistons replaced look up "piston soak" - that saved a lot of guys a rebuild job. I use seafoam for the piston soak.
Why I like timing belts.. quiet running, low drag, cheap and easy to replace.
got my GX series 1.8. Faded blue paint, Hecho en Mexico. 570+k miles. other drivers fear my '87 Golf. all 100hp of it. Scares me too. $7 rockauto Continental T belts forevah!
Wizard didn't even mention the carbon issues these have. The direct injection system ensures the carbon introduced into the intake by the PCV system doesn't get cleaned off the intake valves. As an Uber driver, I'm often asked what vehicles to buy, or if the vehicle someone owns is reliable. If it's a VW/Audi, I say "With frequent maintenance, you'll get 70-90k out of it reasonably trouble free, but problems come thick and fast after that." Then comes the worried reply "I have 110k and it's starting to act funny." I then tell them to trade in before it's too late and buy either a Honda, Toyota, or a Volvo if they like European cars.
But Volvo is Chinese.
ahh yes the uber driver car specialist
Class action lawsuit on the 2.0T for timing chain issues. My wife wanttd a 2.0T VW Eos convertible. I told her absolutely not 😅😅😅
@@MiGujack3 I would never own a Volvo… now that it’s a Chinese company. No thanks
Volvo? 😅
For reference take out the old chain and show it side by side next to the new one to compare!
Hey wizzard, Nice and value information! Wanna add another issues with vw-audi group: dsg and Tiptronic transmition are a yunk!
As a person who knows a thing or two about this engines i must to say that not everything mentioned here is entirely accurate. It is true that these engines consume oil, but not all of them. The problematic ones are primarily those installed in Audis manufactured between 2008 and 2012. VW used different pistons, so oil consumption is nowhere near as frequent in their engines. As for the timing chain, it is problematic in all 2.0/1.8 TSI Gen 2 engines, which were manufactured from 2008 to 2013, and in some models until 2015. Gen 3 engines, which have been installed since 2013, do not have this issue. I can claim this from my own experience, as there are many vehicles in Europe with Gen 3 engines that have almost 300,000 kilometers or even more and they are still running on the original chain.
I'd like to know what changed to make the 2.0T gen 3 so much better!
@@waynekaminski5438 Different timing chains, a new revision of piston rings, a different PCV system, and an improved intake manifold. Engines in the EU also have port injectors that reduce carbon build-up on the inlet valves. I'm not saying that these engines are perfect, as they still have a water pump assembly that will inevitably leak at some point, but they are definitely not considering as unreliable.
@@timjeklar8699 I'm sure the Germans owners practice better maintenance protocols than the US owners.
For me, Too late VW. Keeping a customer is easier than getting a new one. They should have thought about that earlier. They will need 20 years to alter their horrible reputation
Holy cow I disagree with Wizard on this engine. The version in this Q5 with the metal intake manifold is fantastic. Can run e85 and make really good power. Just do the maintenance. 2k for a timing chain maintenance every 115k miles doesn't scare me away.
Read my identifix database. Nothing but failures and trouble with these engines. By the tens of thousands
The HumbleMechanic and CarWizard should do a collab.
@@CarWizard this engine was in so many VAG vehicles so I’m not surprised by that number. The piston ring issue was eventually resolved. Just need to get the right model year.
Yes a lot of Americans don't want to do required maintenance on German cars because it generally costs more the Asian , Japanese cars , so they just delay or leave it , drive the crap out of them and then complain that they are junk and break down. DO THE REQUIRED MAINTENANCE and the cars goes just fine folks !
This is common. You take care of your car and you don’t have these issues. This is just a higher percentage of failures than normal is what he’s talking about. I have a bmw that has the N63 engine that is talked about as one of the worst ever made. I have 122,000 miles on it and it’s phenomenal. I maintain it myself mostly and have the dealer do anything I can’t or don’t have time too. This is not an “everybody will have this” issue. Just a higher percentage of failure rates that normal or what is expected. Instead of 1-2% it can be as high as 5-7%. Something like that I believe
No complaints about burning 1 quart every 300 miles. I bought one not knowing all this and now have it apart putting pistons and rings, updated timing chain. The balance chains also stretch, new rear main seal, new timing cover, new oil cooler and oil filter housing gaskets, obviously new head gasket, reseal upper and lower oil pans, new wastegate flap and bushing for the turbo. Short of pulling the crank and replacing the main bearings, the entire engine has been gone through. Im doing it myself and its apart so why not. Im in about 2k and im so glad i can do this myself. The average person cant do this or afford it. Ive owned the car less than a year. Im impressed he is doing that without putting it into service position
What year and mileage is yours?
@emailjwr 2012 with 140,000 miles.. it had 23mm wrist pins which means it should have had at least the 1st revision of pistons and had the pcv updated and ecu flashed when I bought it. I was burning 1 quart every 900 miles after an oil change but it went down hill from there. After it burned that first quart it needed another quart every 300 to 500 miles. I did hot soaks with chemtool b12, the best it did before the hot soaks were 600 miles a quart. I used kolbenschmidth pistons/rings and 10,000 miles in, it seems that all consumption has stopped. The engine was spotless when I pulled it apart, as far as varnish or sludge. The valves and pistons were carbon fossils but the rest looked amazing
@emailjwr 5k miles after the rebuild I put a stage 2 IE tune on it since it was running good. No issues so far
@@BrandonCartwright04 glad to hear it's running well now! I'm looking at a 2016, I heard there's a big difference between the 2012 gen and the 2016 but can't get a firm answer on that
@emailjwr you should be OK. I think around 2014 2015 is when they had it straightened out. I'm not positive about that tho. Check the back bumper for soot, the only smoke I noticed was on a long decel and getting back on the throttle at low speed or taking off from a stop. It was only a light puff, even then. You could always have a mechanic or yourself bore scope the cylinders to look for carbon on the pistons. You won't miss the carbon build up if it's burning oil that way
LOL at them expecting you to take it to the dealer just to check the oil.
You check the oil with the MMI on the inside of the car. It is very accurate.
I heard that the START and STOP function stretches timing chains.
Start stop, what a useless invention.
The main reason this happens is the 10k intervals combined with the natural oil burning habit of these engines. The oil gets sooty very quickly and if you go the full 10k audi reccomends even if you're topping up the oil that carbon soot acts like sandpaper in the chain links and wears them out. 220k on my 2.0t, original chain with a 2.7* adaption. I change my oil every 5k and have run a cleaner chemical 2-3 times to break down any deposits.
What make, model year is your Audi? I have a ‘14 Q5 2.0 T. Also, how did you find the 2.7 adaptation? I have VCDS.
@@tikimaka1 2010 a4, that was before they released the updated tensioner design for the 2013+ models. Idk where to find it in vcds, I use a snapon modis edge
@@archangel3237 Thanks! What kind of cleaner chemical do you use? And how often. 220k miles is impressive for an Audi.
@@tikimaka1 the BG mega flush (the 5q jug not the little can) and more recently the valvoline mega flush is what I've been using. Oil wise motul sport synthetic ester base every 5k miles. As for the flushes I usually do it once every year or two, usually if I'm already doing other work to the car.
@@archangel3237 Cool. Stay safe!
Wizard, really enjoy your videos. Regarding this 2.0T from VW, could be designed using the assumption that most customers will not keep the car beyond a couple of years , let’s say 4 years at 12 thousand miles a year or 48 thousand miles. These issues you are seeing are occurring at 100k miles plus. So what I hear you saying is don’t buy these cars at or near 100k if you don’t want these issues.
I was a foreign car mechanic and worked on a few Audis in the 70s, and they were junk then. Apparently, junk still. I'll stick with my Jaguars which had a problem with plastic tensioners in the 90s, but interestingly, very little chain stretching even on the single-row chains.