Automatic vs Manual Off-road. How do the different gearbox’s perform?
Let’s unpack the difference between automatic transmission and manual gearbox when Offroad. Which will perform better for you when you’re four wheel driving? Which should you purchase when you’re looking to buy a 4x4? This video will help you make up your mind.
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Thanks to Lucas from the Springs 4x4 Park for helping make this video.
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the price of maintain the auto is too much as well manual is cheaper top maintain
@@crunchied8 I've not found that to be prohibitive. They both need oil changes.
@@MadMatt4WD i mean when there is a issue with them the auto will cost far more than the manual to fix
@@crunchied8 That is probably true but both are very reliable these days.
@@MadMatt4WDI know people have spent 8k just on an auto to fix it compared to manual just under 3.5k see the big difference that's just for a non 4wd prices 4wd price will be far more in money for the auto I think of the worse case scenario if it doesn't happen great these days things aren't build like in the old days
Do a part 2; mud, deep soft sand, getting unstuck in both mud and sand, recovering another vehicle. Great work, love your videos
Those are great ideas
I drive a manual LC200 petrol (Maxxis MT772) , where i get nervous: River crossing (afraid to have to let go of gas and then get reverse flooded) , recovering other (similarly heavy) vehicles as i am afraid to burn the clutch. And lastly, traffic jams. Just plain hell. Rest, snow, sand , mud, gravel, wet forest grounds etc are not real biggies.
@@QnA22 you need to fit a cover, canvas, over the front, create a small bow wave, do not change gear or speed. walk it first if possible. do not enter with hot diffs, or water will be sucked in..even if you have diff breathers, best let cool down for 5 mins. if you have a clutch fan, get electric. so you can turn them off.. if you watch 24/7, they have spnsors, it dont matter if they wreck there vehicle,,its a bs show.... lc200.. hmmm.. id trade for an 80 series, or preferably a gu 4.2tdi, far better vehicle, oh, but there old,, yes,,but they dant have any bs on them..or that fkt up ifs bs..diesel,,you need diesel.. heavy vehicle, ??,, mine weighs 4t empty.. gets 14 lt 100, & has 700nm.. &,,, 2 diffs..there are no traffic jams, you wait till the obsticle is clear.. period..
@@MadMatt4WD did you mention tyre pressures, or the difference it makes, or the diff ratios, or weight, or front rear lockers. 2 different vehicles totally different outcomes. apples for oranges..
@@harrywalker968 Did you watch the video and hear at the beginning we said it was not perfect because of those differences????
My first time at "The Springs" with the Brisbane 4WD Club recently. Absolutely can't wait to get back. Tracks of all levels. Great place to be.
So well said, I personally love driving Manual and keep being told that manual is unsuitable for offer driving, despite having driven off-road across north Africa the far north of Scandinavia and a load of NZ in Manual vehicles and only time I would have changed to an automatic was the 3 months driving in and out of Auckland in heavy traffic. This is not a problem anymore because I moved south to NZ’s largest Pond (ok it’s called a lake) The problem today is the extremely limited range of manual transmission vehicles on the market new.
Using a throttle controller is also very helpful on a manual when 4x4 driving. More control over power delivery helps smooth things out. As the saying goes "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
Very true!
Nice comparison! My manual Toyota Fortuner ‘Eco’ mode button really kills throttle response but works well with the anti-stall in low first - and Steep inclines and declines always frighten me the most!!! Low 1st on a steep decline is so much nicer!
Using a throttle controller will kill your warranty
@@nordic5490 How? It doesn't change any specs. My local Toyota Dealership supplies and fits them.
You have such a gift for analysing and explaining things. Great video.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Great video, definitely pros and cons to both, myself personally been wheeling for years and prefer manual, I find I have more control and feel like I am actually driving the vehicle. I feel manual a bit more bush proof eg easier to tow if something was to happen or to roll start the vehicle. For anyone new or not as confident auto great way to go. Definitely a lot more control on the slow stuff.
For me - manual all the way. Had both manual 4.0 jeep and auto 4.0 jeep at the same time. What manual does - it climbs uphill with zero throttle. Even more - you can press break ant it will not stall as low as 350rpm. With 4.11 diff gearing, 2.73 transfer case gearing and 4.01 first gearing is instopable at 350 rpm and still you can instantlj bump it up to 5.000 rpm. No auto needed for me. Thanks for great video and do the part two 👍👍👍👍
Thanks heaps great content answered some questions i had
Glad I could help
As a (non turbo) 1FZ 105 manual cruiser driver, I love my manual. I thought it was a bit rude that you had to 'dumb down' the manual to 2nd gear for the third challenge. I love the 400rpm idle you can get down to. What I thought was interesting in the last challenge was how high you had to keep the auto revving to have the control you speak of. I probably don't do the 'hard core' rock crawling, but I am aware that when I get to the bottom of a hill that often has a creek crossing, I'm not quenching very hot brakes (hill descent control or just using them all the way down), and that's got to be a good thing. Great video, well talked through.
Definitely agree with you, proud dad of a 1kz J120, starting in 2 definitely restricted them and in terms of control I prefer that manual transmission playing on clutch and throttle you get more feel of what’s going on and what the car needs to get through
Matt great videos thanks. I did notice one thing that you mention in another video with the Subarus and the was that you only had the drivers side window down and had mention in the other one that you like having both down to be able to hear more of what is going on. Don’t mean to nitpick just having fun. Seriously thank you for all the information you bring and share in your videos about off roading.
Fair point. I was thinking more when you’re being spotted in close quarters.
i've only ever wheeled in an auto so super stoked to get my manual 89 jeep yj on the trails :) would love a part 2 like @walkeranz said!
Saw you at the 4x4 show showing beginners how to drive and was some really good info for my 17 yo brother whos getting into it. Thanks Matt!!
Awesome thank you!
I used to be a die-hard manual guy, but I've had my current auto for over ten years now and while I'd love a manual run-around car, I definitely wouldn't go anything but auto for my 4wd. Plus there's also torque converter lock-up kits that can even the playing field (provided the gearing is good).
Just got a manual XTerra Pro-4X, and I've been watching a lot of videos like this. This is the best one yet, I say.
Well thank you kindly.
Another tough day in the office 😊 Great content Matt. I’m sure Lucas is out looking for a 105. Keep up the great work. 👏👏👏
Fingers crossed! 😂😂😂
Not just a question of which is easier, but which was more fun. I can see auto having benefits, but I enjoy the option of employing a modification in tactics that is sometimes lost when the auto transmission makes decisions.
Great informative video thanks 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
When driving the technical section, it sounded to me like the engine was revving a lot and the torque converter would be working very hard. It would have been interesting to know how hot the ATF was getting
Yes it’s rErving but the auto would hardly know it.
With a lot of vehicles if you’re in 4LO it locks the torque converter, this being one of the reasons. I’ve definitely seen vehicles where they were kept in 4HI when off-roading and now you’ve got a transmission overheat message on the display.
Yep "The spings" is an awesome place
Excellent video, thanks!
Glad you liked it! Thanks
Depends on the car though. Wrangler Rubicon with reduction gears and ZF 8 speed tiptronic auto allows you to hold gears fine. It can idle down a hill.
Yeah I’ll bet. My racecar holds gears fine too.
I will say I started in a 5spd 4x4 Toyota pickup and now I have a 6spd gladiator and the improvement in throttle control from technology has made it such a breeze off-road.
Had a Triton manual for about 7 years and loved taking it out until we get to technical rock sections, I use to stall often and hated it when the spotter on trips would stop me halfway up a climb and then I need to clutch control the vehicle to get momentum again. I recently got a auto Pajero with difflock and I am keen on seeing the actual difference especially with rocky terrain and technical stuff, just need to remember to change it to the manual select😂. Great video and you could see the control difference especially the last section as it doesnt have the surging issue when you start getting traction.
ive seen those issues with Tritons and the like. You'll love the auto.
Great comparison. In my opinion I would say the following. Up hill - I think the Auto would be much easier in tricky situations, I've has a situation where I stopped on a steep hill and it ended with 2 hours stuck, jack knifed, slipped timing and a very expensive tow truck ride home. Trying to get started in a manual was basically impossible. Down Hill - Manual because of the control all the way. 1st Low and just let it walk. Rocks - Much like up hill, Auto, you have a lot more control with less worry about stalling and trying to control that side of things. Tech Incline - Again same as all heading Uphill, Auto would give more control. Tech Rocks - Follow the pattern, Uphill I am again saying Auto because there is more control. BUT lets see these same tracks in reverse, down hill. I think the Engine breaking down hill would help a lot more on all of these tracks rather than being on the anchors. Personally I drive an Manual but I do see some advantages of an Auto. I just like my Manual more.
Depends on your vehicle regards engine braking with an auto. I have a Pajero Sport and when I did a course they basically said to stick it in low first and it crawled down very steep hills with no need to touch the brakes. Not sure what it is using but it didn't look like running away at all. Also has downhill assist which uses the ABS to keep the vehicle at whatever speed you want it to be travelling at. I drove manuals all my life and love them but would never have one over a modern auto these days.
@oldbloke204 agreed with Modern Tech involved things can be totally different. I've got a 2002 Pajero, no Traction control or anything else just a LSD in the rear and a manual gear box. I don't do much in the way of tricky stuff anyway but do love my manual.
@@OnCountryWithMick My brother has always had Pajeros including 2 from new with the Mitsubishi Super Select in them and has taken them all over the place. Hammers them and hasn't had the slightest issue with either of them. Personally I think that the Mitsubishi 4wd system is one of the best and most underrated going around. The ability to run the things as an "AWD" in crappy conditions is excellent and it's actually still quite capable off road as I found out when I hit some unexpected soft sand halfway up a hill. I love manuals and have driven all sorts but I'm a bit lazy these days. I don't do any hardcore stuff but have had it on some tracks that aren't easy and it surprises me with how easily it does it sometimes.
@oldbloke204 agreed mate. My Paj has surprised me time and time again. It's no rock crawler but that's not what I want anyway. I want a good, comfortable, reliable and capable tourer and the Paj ticks all those boxes. Slipping into 4H (AWD) at any time is great and I use it on all dirt roads or when it is raining.
@@OnCountryWithMick Yeah they've almost been overlooked over the years but they have a lot of good points. Shame they're no longer continued really. I was looking at them when I bought my Sport but they were more expensive with no warranty and many more k's at the time. Not really sorry as the Sport has been excellent and seems to have a reputation for being very reliable. I love the tech such as all of the traction control stuff and even being able to pair my phone and use Google maps on the centre screen is really useful. Download maps for the area into the phone and it continues to work even when out of phone range.
Matt, my off-to roading started 50 years ago in VW Beetles (long before off-roading was a "thing" in suburbia). Got to some fairly decent places. Only real vehicles at that time were Jeep CJ-5's, International Scouts and a few Land Rovers. All manuals as far as I recall. Late '70's is when things started to take off. Only challenging places were high-tension power line rights of way or unfinished highway construction sites. Desert racing in the Southwest was what I followed.
The sport has come a long way since then ay.
Hello Matt. Thanks for your vídeos. My 4x4 is automatic but yo can set the transmision to work in manual mode (without clutch), but with converter. Don’t know if I may expect the best of both worlds.
Thanks. In manual mode it just allows you to select the gear you want to a degree. But the torque converter is still managing the power transfer out of the motor into the transmission.
Great video! 😊
Glad you liked it!!
Great video...Thanks! I've been driving a Manual transmission, my whole life...I have a 2006 Jeep TJ, which I'll be hanging onto, but I just picked up a 2024 Jeep Rubicon JLU Automatic...Truthfully, I really haven't a clue as to how to drive that off road...I know for sure, that I'll miss the way that the Manual allows one to take your foot off the gas and clutch/brake and just let the vehicle do its thing...!
Great video again Matt. Here's something to ponder. When I was in Mt Dare the Simpson desert recovery truck driver told me that the number 1 cause of vehicles being stranded in the desert is failed auto transmissions.
Graham knows his stuff and I’d think he’s right with that. But why are the autos failing. I’ll bet two factors. 1 using the wrong gears and working g the auto too hard. Second overloaded.
@MadMatt4WD yeh. I'd say so. There's a combination of factors and there's the added complexity. Overheating. I'm guessing. That's why (until now) there's never been an auto option in the venerable 70 series!
I have an FJ Cruiser which is automatic but has the low transfer case and I can choose the gear. So it’s an automatic but I can choose the gear and , for example, engine brake downhill in 4x4 1st or 2nd so it seems to have the advantage of both
A great informative video thanks guys. I would like to have seen both test vehicles being the same kind though. You were still comparing solid front axle to IFS
So would we but were flat broke and this is what we had available.
Thanks for another good video. Most automatic’s have a manual mode for hill decent or climb. Or just for all around more control. I mostly put my automatic transmission in manual mode when wheeling just for that reason.
So many drivers don’t do this ay.
Nice one boys!
Legend!
Great video Matt. I noticed when you stalled your main concern in manual was stalling amd restarting from a stop. My Tacoma has a clutch start assist and Im wondering if youve tried it before. Ill admit I havn' myself because Im unsure if it would damage anything.
I don’t have that but have used it in other vehicles. It would be a good thing. I’ve learned to drive around the issue now and don’t even use the handbrake.
I have to say, I agree with what you've come across there. Personally I drive a somewhat of a rarity manual 2017 Colorado trayback. Was out at The Springs last weekend (Great spot btw Lucas, helluva lot of fun!) with the club, and it was so often I saw brake lights in front of me on the descents, meanwhile I'm in 1st just crawling. My rig does have hill descent control, but it's very rare that I actually use it. We came down through the skids though, and for there, the auto would have served me better in some spots (so would some more clearance but we won't go there hahahaha). I'd put it down like you guys do as well. It's really a personal choice. As much as I'll rag on the mates for that ez mode auto at times, I enjoy what I do, and having fun is the main point of it all. There's only really one spot that I don't like the manual and that is sand.
Great comment well said.
Great video! I'm used to my manual with very low transfer case gearing, but overall it seems that auto has won out in the 4x4 community.
My Bundera was really low geared and was great but I’m converting it to auto.
Thanks for the video, was the comparison not gonna be fair with the same car model? Auto v manual
Question about the hill desent. Did you have the auto in auto mode or select a manual mode. My auto if i select manual mode in L4 the torque converter has a lock up so I do get engine breaking on a hill desent as I have no electronic hill desent. If in auto mode no lock up so yes no engine breaking and on the brakes on the desent.
Yes we drive the auto in manual mode but with hill decent off
Great video as always Matt! Can I ask if the auto was locked into first gear on the decent? Cheers mate! Really looking forward to your online training and getting some more knowledge about driving through the breaks and left foot breaking. Thanks again mate!
Yes I did. I’m sure Lucas would have as well.
@MadMatt4WD cheers mate! I'm a new 4x4 driver and my 3.2 bt50 auto feels like it has heaps of engine braking downhill. However, my only other 4x4 was a Jimny (manual). So don't have much to compare it to. Cheers again for the great content!
I think to have a more accurate baseline reference it would need to be the same vehicle so you rule ifs front vs live axle front and different low range ratios. Apart for that keep up the good work I watch all your videos.
@bradleyfryer5563 yes, a better comparison would be to use the same make and model car, same engine. The only difference is the transmission, everything else is equal.
@@bradleyfryer5563 I'n the ideal world we would have that but who has two of the same vehicle with only a different transmission? It'd be tough and expensive to do.
Just a question: When doing the down hill section was the Auto left in Auto or locked in to 1st Low ?
Locked into low.
Great video, which RTT is on your car?
A Darche eco.
I have an 04 Tacoma with a 5 spd and the TRD option which includes an electric lock on the rear diff. It now has 300k miles. About 20k miles back I was using it to remove about a dozen loads of scrap steel from the wreckage of the Creek Fire. I was towing an 8x16 trailer and bringing loads about 50 miles, including down a 4% mountain grade from 4500 ft elevation down to 2000 ft and then on down to the San Joaquin Valley at about 300 ft. With the manual in 1st gear I could ease the loads down at about 20 mph with a minimal amount of braking. It would have been dangerous or impossible with an automatic. Been driving 4x4's for over 50 years, including a WWII Willy's in the 60's. I do have an automatic in my Diesel Excursion, but there was no manual option for Excursion's.
Nice test to see, however living in the US with No midsize diesel truck available the results are more definitive for a gas engine. I have owned about a dozen 4x4 trucks in my life and as much as I enjoy a manual the auto wins hands down in most all departments except being able to start when dead. In reality when can you push your truck fast enough to start off road
Good one!
Thank you! Cheers!
After driving manuals all my life I bought an auto 80 series and now I swear by it offroad especially in the hard technical stuff
Yeah I went the same route.
Matt, just curious... what tire pressure did you both do this with - did you air down or just use normal road pressure? These are the things you didn't mention in your preface. I love my 80 series and it being a manual as I can drive it instead of being a steering wheel attendant.
Yes we both aired down. I don’t recall the pressures. Around low 20s I’d think.
Great video. One question: Which gearbox will overhead more than the other one?
Overheating is not normally an issue unless you’re abusing it.
Might sound a little crazy but in auto I’ve used reverse going forward down hill. I wouldn’t use it on big steps but it does give more control then just brakes
Yes I do that but we do need to be very very slow or it can stall the motor.
GU factory TD42 Patrol. Love my old tractor, she’ll go anywhere with ease
My 4WD's are manual diesel I much prefer to drive hands on being old skool rather than an auto it's all personal choice, but I wish my 105 had a hand throttle control like my 80 series.
Does the ranger have 1st gear lock up? My last gen BT50 would have crawled down that hill as slow as the Cruiser in 1st (auto car) not using hill decent. If its like my BT you just need to make sure you select first then come to a complete stop just before you head down, if you just drive into it the auto lockup wont engage. Still makes the cruiser slightly better not needing to stop but hardly makes the auto bad at the task. To me the manual wins purely on a downhill (just) and that's it. Up, rocks, water, control, strength I give it all to the auto. Manual still wins the on fun but.
Wouldnt the suspension play a bigger part of this (ifs vs solid) ?
As we say in the video we did our best to ignore those factors.
Do you think different brand auto's would perform differently? I own a 200 and drive an Everest for work. I prefer the 200 auto than the Everest/ Ranger auto.
yes they do
Great video I have done very little off road driving in a regular 4wd. I have don't more off road driving in heavy trucks, which bares little comparison, I feel. Perhaps my leaning will change after I do more 4wding. after driving both auto & manual, I still have an over all preference for manual. For me it is about the pursuit of honing the skill. I am no Jedi driver by any means. To drive a manual it requires a higher level of skill & finesse. I like that challenge. But I recognize not everyone's focus will be the same, nor should it be. I am wondering in comparison an auto probably has a kinder distribution of wear than a manual, easier to make a mistake with a manual & perhaps easier to cause damage too. If someone is starting out in 4wding then I wonder if starting in an auto can be a bit of a trap that if you want to ultimately drive manual, then starting auto or becoming comfortable in auto can make the learning curve longer with manual. I wonder starting with a manual is always going to give a better grounding & feel for a vehicle than auto. I have an older 4wd with an uncommon engine/gear box combo & where it seem to me the older 4wd vehicles fall down is reliable hand brakes, important in both auto am manual, but it is more firmly present on my mind in the manual. I am super careful to make sure the handbrake is adjusted properly all the time as it looses adjustment more often than most vehicles.
Great comment with some good thoughts.
I would posit the common denominator is drive line shock. The auto is far more kind to the drive line than a manual. Take that into consideration for any terrain one may drive.
So, when putting both vehicles in an rpm range which suits the manual more than the auto, the manual is better? Who would have thought... Having said that, for more extreme rock crawling I've generally preferred a manual (though for all round use prefer the auto).
Well the top tier utes like the Ranger wildtrak and Hilux GR sport only come in auto - manual is dead unless you buy a basic workmate
Would be interesting to know which transmission is more reliable. Is an auto more prone to slipping or cracking housings etc? Or a manual almost unbreakable? Or visa versa
These days I think they’re both reliable for the most part.
@@MadMatt4WD The first offroad trip I did, I ended up finishing off what felt like an OK clutch. The extra load of bogged tyres and lack of being able to detect a clutch slip vs wheel slip wasnt a good combination for a 200k clutch. Thats not the fault of the manual but wouldn't have happened in an auto.
Has to be an Auto they give you so much control as long as you understand what your doing great work
I would think the auto would develop a lot more heat and be potentially a little more unreliable in the long run if not set up properly with aftermarket oil coolers. Pretty much there's a place for both depends on who you are. 😉
I’ve only ever seen them get hot if they’re abused but yes a cooler is a good idea.
The reason any transmission gets hot is because of friction. Friction is generated in the torque converter, in clutches and bands when changing gears and finally in all components that move relative to other components, e.g. gears and bearings. Choosing your gear and leaving it there in either manual or auto transmission ensures minimum heat generation when undertaking difficult terrain. Locking the torque converter in an auto will reduce heat from fluid friction in the torque converter. So fitting a torque converter lock override switch and using it judiciously**, will help substantially. Equivalently, not riding the clutch (i.e. foot completely off the clutch pedal) in a manual. Finally using the right oil and maintaining the trans (manual or auto) properly will keep all friction to a minimum and allow for proper thermal management. So an auto can be pretty good heat wise when used properly, especially if, as you point out, additional oil cooling is added and a manual torque lock switch is installed and used carefully** - **locking the torque converter inappropriately can be quite detrimental I suspect :)
@@BenMitro The biggest generator of heat is like you said, in the torque converter. The heat from the clutch bands is negligible - for example stock wet clutches in manual motorcycle transmissions don't need coolers and they handle WAY more slippage through a way bigger area for much longer periods of time than the bands in an auto. Shifting isn't what causes heat, stalling the trans is. The biggest advantage of a torque converter is that it does as it's name implies, and converts torque. As transmission speed drops bellow engine speed, the fluid recirculates through the TC more and provides a torque advantage, the TC can momentarily nearly double the torque coming out of your engine (this is why drag racers intentionally "stall" the torque converter when launching). This is the biggest advantage of an auto, and why they are almost used exclusively in drag racing (a long with their repeatability, and lower impulse/shock loading of the drivetrain). If you keep it locked, you no longer get this torque multiplication which is the whole reason you would want an auto in the first place. It'd be a lot better to just manage the heat through a trans cooler, than to keep it locked while offroading. On top of that, for a stock transmission the lockup is the weakest part.
@@JD-ub5ic Very informative comment JD.
with modern autos with gear limits , you can engine brake just as well as manual. and they are robust enough that they can even drive in 1:1 gear with torque converter when in limp mode
Right, but what if you’re on a steep downhill driving an auto, and the engine dies and won’t restart? As long as the engine isn’t locked up, a manual can still use the resistance from the engine to slow you down,using engine braking , not so much with an auto. One of my friends has an electric vacuum pump setup with a T in the vacuum line with a valve that he can use to bypass the engine vacuum and engage the auxiliary vacuum pump, so he at least has brakes in case of catastrophic engine failure.
It depends. One offroad dedicated vehicle: manual because it's more fun. Touring /family/daily driver: Auto.
Great video! But this topic needs to be explored more … how about: Cost of maintenance, cost to fully replace, temperature control when off-road and mods needed to keep temps from damaging the trans, longevity of each type under these conditions, and which is better in remote conditions. Having a battery die in a manual is a non-issue as long as you can get it rolling, but in an auto, you’re just hosed without someone to jump. Also, performance in these conditions is entirely a function of the driver - and good manual drivers are few and far between. Most are stab-and-pop drivers who fap their manual skills, but most of the true skill in manual driving has been lost in the age of the V-pedal transmissions.
More videos to come ay
How can you compare those cars? The LC is a more capability vehicle, better traction which impacts everything.
We did a fairly good job given the tools we had on hand.
@@MadMatt4WD I’m a converted manual to auto dude…. Nothing worse 😀
I'm definitely a big fan of manual, but did you leave the auto in drive to go downhill? What kind of 4x4 doesn't have a gear selector
no we drove it in manual mode because thats how you drive auto offroad.
Hi Matt, Love from India. I own a Jimny 5 door Manual Transmission in India. Although Manual tramsission is more engaging and love to drive, scenarios like above always push me to thinking about how Auto transmission are convinient. Slush/Mud/Snow/Hill climb, Jimny Manual is better with better throttle input control but rocks ohh man i am scared to fry my clutch. Any guidance on how no to burn the clutch while still able to conquer the rock crawling.
Hey mate. Unfortunately there’s not an easy answer because of the design. Just do your best to keep engine revs low and if at all possible have the clutch out. Outside of this seeing if you can get transfer case reduction gears for low range.
@@MadMatt4WD Gear Reduction is on the cards, but vehicle is still with 5200 kms only. Would like to enjoy the warranty a bit until then 🙂
I simply say the option one prefers is the better choice. I prefer a manual always, I hate not knowing exactly when torquconverter will link engine to transmission. Instead of gearing the manual to be comparable to Automatic should have driven each vehicle to its optimum performance.
I heard that everybody chose auto unless really terrible hard off-road and then you want to chose manual as just more solid and more reliable.
👍👍👍!!!
During a water crossing, if you change gears with a manual transmission you risk getting water in the clutch which can cause issues in the future. With an automatic transmission, however, you can change gears or stop driving and no water will find its way into the gearbox. This makes automatic transmissions the better choice for you if you know you’ll be facing a lot of water crossings with your 4×4.
That’s got an element of truth but the modern clutch is rarely affected by changing gears in water.
I’m surprised about the hill climb and commenting on loosing momentum? The 105 wasn’t lifting wheels hence why no momentum was lost. And obviously some makes and models are different. My old mn triton was a manual and 1st low was about the same speed as 2nd low in my ranger..
We didn’t show you the complete hill.
Auto fine for touring you think? No crazy 4WD tracks. Thoughts on the 70 auto coming out in 24?
Yeah I’d tour and I do crazy 4wding with my auto race car. It’ll be a typical 79. It’ll do boring stuff all day forever.
Gee ok @@MadMatt4WD
For crazy rock crawling go with auto. For all other stuff they are pretty much equal
I've a manual and always have had manual vehicles, but auto's have come a long way from the 3 speed auto in the falcon I learned to drive in back in the '80's, so my next vehicle will probably be an auto. I still like the manual, but for 95% of the time a modern auto is as good, or better, than a manual and that last 5% is hard to justify sticking with the 3rd pedal.
That was a very interesting comparison. Seems all vehicles today are going automated manuals.
They are!
My Triton is not fast enough down hill, when I select 1st in the auto
Select 2nd then
A better comparison would be the same vehicle in auto vs manual. The LC 105 and the ranger are just too different to be a good comparison
Sure it would but I don’t have access to that.
@@MadMatt4WD fair enough. Thanks for the work, unbiased info is hard to come by.
Well I saw the difference and it was pointed out as by the two gentlemen, not sure what else you would need.
@@henkstols9326 the reality is, the ranger and cruiser have different wheel bases, different traction control systems and different front suspension setups, making them very different vehicles and very different offroad. Getting a auto 105 vs a manual 105, both in petrol or diesel, would be ideal, but I do understand that it wasn't possible for this video
Auto all day for me but I'm old and like easy. Please have your mate secure that winch hook before he loses it.
I’ve told him a few times to sort it out.
The Auto is beginner friendly, Manual is harder to drive well, the auto would also have a higher ceiling in what can be achieved off road with modifications, but the manual would be more rewarding. Tldr Auto is easy mode Manual is hard mode
Of course autos are going to be better climbing but overall I would pick a manual everyday
Hi Matt why did you not ad some heavy sand driving .
It’s 4 hours from here
Modern autos do hold their gear as you brake eg a Dmax. Also, in low range and selecting a gear it should crawl without the need for hill decent control. Older autos are more reliant on holding the brake to keep the down hill speed slow.
The AUTO used did not have Lowrange transfer case
@@Alan_J_T ? I’m not sure what you mean. You compared offroading an auto 4x4 without a low range function or ability to manually hold a gear…..doesn’t seem like the testing the capability of an auto in 4x4 was adequately assessed. I’ll just stick to what I know and leave you fellas play a little.
I think most people whonhave driven or seem both would say in an older 4wd manual, in a new 4wd auto.
I’m converting my oldest 4wd into auto.
Thank you Matt! Great video. Why do factory 4WD engineers not go one extra little step for real offroad gains? My 2015 Fortuner GX manual is great BUT over 40km/h in 4WD the traction control / VSC always auto-reengages (beach driving at 80km/h speed limit) and when you hit a soft sand patch the ECU starts cutting power just when you need it and I start frantically pushing the VSC off button 😂AND steep hill stall recovery where I must have clutch fully depressed to restart engine - this is to stop starting the car while its in gear in town and running over someones kids - this should be disabled in LR 4WD so you can start engine in reverse and clutch out on the brakes… AND also not a single cargo tie down point in the back of my 4th gen Fortuner when previous ones had nice tie downs! And fitting a handbrake??? Oh - its a Toyota… but I love my manual…. And YES I should have forked out more for an actual Landcruiser…. but it did come with a factory rear locker that disengages the IFS front traction control when turned on!! Makes going uphill no good with rear locker as it wheel lifts over every pebble!! At least ATRAC is good….
This is one of the main reasons I like the older 4wds. I like to drive not the computer.
In my humble opinion, auto is by far better for off-roading and towing. Smoother driving, constant drive from zero mph and no need for clutch control. The only drawback is on a steep hill decent where engine braking is extremely desirable. Furthermore, as a sealed unit the auto box is protected from the elements unlike a clutch which is not. Of course a lot will disagree, but it’s a fact.
I agree with you
seems like most of the things you two are faulting the manual for could be improved by putting lower gears in your transfer case or a second case. I think most stock low range gears arent quite low enough for serious off-roading.
Of course. As I say the 105 has reduction gears already and crawls very well.
Sand lads, auto streets ahead both up and down. For example you tackle that long dune and 5m from top there's the dreaded soft wind blown sand. Change down in manual to avoid launching vehicle into space and its generally with loss of momentum and its back all the way too the btm. Auto, keep some power dialled in and change down and over you go in full control. Changing down on bloody long steep sand or dirt downhill when it just gets steeper can be loose of control in manual ( and the gear change must be instant on brakes and clutch or its loss of control ). I've seen a manual go out of control when gear change is muffed, auto is perfect changing vdown feathering brakes slightly. After being a manual person for 45 years of 4wding it Def now an auto world. If it's downhill everyone's banging on about, do what Matt has done and fit lower transfer ratio and use that amazing hill descent control.
I accept that auto is better, but i love my manual and it's vibe
Tranny temp on something more than a bunny hill? Forced to stop in a water crossing? Loss of fluid, witch one is going to leave you hundreds of miles in the bush? Would be nice to see a video that goes more in depth on potential problems like oil cooling hoses getting punctured, and more rigorous limit testing. Auto is easier to drive until it doesn’t drive at all.
Those are true points but there’s way more items in our vehicles that might fail leaving us stranded. And from what I’m seeing is autos are mostly reliable unless they’re abused.
@@MadMatt4WD First - love your videos and long term subscriber- true, I have both an auto and a stick. I like the ease of the auto, but the ruggedness of the stick. I just see a lot more auto transmissions getting replaced after being damaged and getting the dreaded clunk shift from not changing the fluid often enough for serious 4x-ing. Here in the PNW we have hills like that but go up like that for miles. All of the used auto 4x4s for sale around here have the clunk. Also, hill descent burns up the brakes and rotors faster. I just feel its more unnecessary money in tranny fluid, filters, brake parts and time. Just my observation and opinion.
@@kevinkevarson9513 Thanks for the kind words and for following for so long. You raise fair points but the auto is still a good deal although it may not suit your preference or application.
I think locking the torque converter into gear can help take stress and heat out of an auto if it starts to hunt up and down… saw several 10spd auto Rangers towing heavy camper 23:34 trailers in soft sand on K’gari with tranny overheating and limp mode issues… I agree like Matt says to put the auto in a manual mode off road and they sure seem to drive hard stuff easier than me in my manual donk ….
Not all autos are created equal though. Some modern autos lock up on descents, where as the older ones are second rate off road. On know it’s outside the scope of this video, but for me, the only advantage manuals have now days is that they are more bush proof. Something breaks, they can generally be limped home, autos, not so much.
Good points but they’re both very reliable these days too.
@@MadMatt4WD another big bonus of a manual is that if you happen to get water in it.. you can just drain it. And replace the fluid. Auto… cactus… ask me how I know 🤦♂️
Auto for me much more control and so much easer on running gear , less broken cv.s
No video of best part of trail😢
I love manual but for safety, control and comfort in most situations its auto for me.
It would've been a better comparison if both vehicles were the same apart from the transmission. You've got different shape, size, weight, solid axle v independent front. That all impacts on off road handling. I prefer manual btw.
We understand that and discussed that but these are the vehicles we had available to us.
That's fair enough
The only situation that's missing in this comparison is beach/sand/dune driving. Which in my experience, an auto does better than a manual.
Yeah the beach is a fair way off for us and we felt it wasn't going to add a huge advantage as both work well in sand although i agree auto is slightly better if you keep it cool.
Sorry your tests didn't make sense if you did the rock section in 2nd low in the manual to even the gearing up why did you not do the same on the downhill decent?
Ok
i really think you need to pick the same vehicle one auto one manual different cars does not prove anything at all but fun to watch
That would be ideal but as experienced 4wders we both felt it was helpful information.
I feel like this comparison is kind of apples and oranges. Straight axle vs independent front suspension skews the results a little for me. I feel they should be same model, same gearing, same tires, same wheelbase to make it more fair. Those are just a few variables that can make all the difference.
We would have loved that but I ain’t that rich.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be overly critical. I just noticed the IFS vs straight axle. Then I thought of the other things.
Also, if you haven't seen the videos from Tinkerer's Adventure, I think you would really enjoy them. He gets into a lot of science behind 4wd modifications and such.
@@jameslewis1179 i'll have a look.
Auto better. Will change down quicker as needed. Autos can be locked in whatever gear you wish(at least modern autos can)and autos change quicker.