Once A Spike, Always A Spike?
We've all heard the saying "once a spike, always a spike" when talking to other hunters within the community. But is it true? If a buck grows spike antlers, will he grow spike antlers for the rest of his life? In this video we will not only answer that question but we will also talk about what does cause inferior antlers along with show you a real world example of what a spike could grow into the following season.
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Found your channel a couple of months ago. I enjoy it, good logical deer content. Keep it up, thanks
Thanks Dave! Really appreciate it. I try my best to keep everything straight forward and try not to overthink my approach. Let me know if there's anything in particular you'd like to see a video on and I can try to put something together!
Nice calm, clear, explanation of deer growth on the buck side of the equation. I hunted in an area where there are a lot of spikes, but it was over hunted for years, so any buck got shot... that didn’t get rid of spikes, but it did make the mature buck hide all the better and run to private land during bow season... they didn’t wait for opening day of Gun season.
It sounds like we could be neighbors! Ha. That is the tough part about hunting in very high pressure areas, especially if you're a public land hunter. The number of older bucks is pretty low and when the pressure gets applied those older bucks find little hidden locations and hang out in there until dark. Great opportunity if you can identify those spots though! Like you said, those with private land can make a big impact if they are managed / hunted appropriately.
Super informative, thanks!
I shot a fat spike this year. Figured he was diabetic so I didn’t want him to suffer from the high price if insulin
Congratulations! Time for some venison jerky!
Great explanation, thanks!
Very informative video. I decided to subscribe to the channel because of the quality content.
Thank you Victor! I appreciate it!
Great video! Heard all this growing up too! Had guys at camp even try getting the genetics out of the population, which is nearly impossible.
I heard it a lot growing up as well. Not as much anymore but still hear it every year. Hopefully as more hunters are exposed to more information the mindset will fade away. And i completely agree, with over half of the antler genetics coming from the doe, there's no way to change genetics in a significant way within a wild herd.
@@whitetailevolution oh that mindset is well engrained in people and hard to educate the close minded folks.
Great information brother!
Thank you!
I believe antler development does in fact depend on several factors. In Northern areas in particular where deep woods deer hunting is the name of the game, the food sources available and how long they're available vary greatly than say places such as the farm country of the Midwest or areas of the south where food is much more prevalent for longer periods. Here in Maine, we're known for producing hearty, big bodied deer. However, many have fairly modest sets of headgear. To harvest a typical, no frills 8 point buck that dresses out at well over 200lbs is not uncommon here. In other places around the country where the food sources and climate are different, they take seemingly much smaller bodied deer who have racks that are way more impressive.
Great video, good job 👍
Thank you Scott!
Great video!👍
Thanks Xavier!
I was your 300 th like! Good video
Thanks!!!!
Real good vid!!
Thanks Dan!!
Let them go n let them grow
right on! It's fun watching an individual deer grow up and see how his personality / behavior changes over time.
Why the Dec can't just make a law for 3 yrs 6 pts and above only and wed all be seeing alot more bigger racks , cause we know most ppl just shoot anything ughhh
Great video. Wish more people would pass them small ones up.
Thank you! And i agree, if more hunters would let the younger bucks walk we'd see a lot more older deer. Hopefully there's a shift in the culture soon.
Guy who lives few miles from me in Central Illinois. Had deer last year on camera, had 100inches on one side and just spike on the other. Let him go of course and this year he grew out to have both sides match and he shot him and measured 204 green score! Just got to wait and let them grow.
That is a great success story! Like you said, let them go and you'll be rewarded!
In western ( Appalachia) NC we aren't known for hugh anlters there for I say a lot of to be 8 pointers antlers start out as spikes. Some bucks here may be 3 or more years old before becoming a 8 point.
We have areas in Michigan that are similar in that it takes a few more years for bucks to really start putting on antler growth
I've been hunting for 40 years I've never heard once a spike always a spike I heard if he's a spike he's got less potential but never always a spike. In the South we have what we call cowhorn spikes that's a mature deer with Spike horns or antlers I've seen quite a few of those type of deer ,but usually they have a point or two but just not much of one. I killed a buck several years ago that had a fork on one side and about a 20-in spike about as big around as a Coke can at the base and it went to a very sharp tip. He would have been a dangerous deer to others for sure. I killed this deer before the rut, and I truly believe that if I would have let that deer walk we would have lost a lot of bucks that year
That was a good call getting him out of there. Like you said, he would have likely been a danger to the other bucks in the area. Once a spike, always spike might be more of a phrase up north. The guys I talk to from the South don't seem to have heard of that as much. Definitely a thing up here though..
I'm sure a lot of it depends when a deer is born too. A 1.5 year old buck can vary between almost 3 months. I live in the northeast and see just born fawns may, June all the way to August. And as Im typing he's talking about this, that's why I can't stand when someone shoots a smaller deer and calls it a "yearling" nah bud that deer had spots two months ago, that's a fawn. A deer can hurt it's back leg and it can effect his antlers for the rest of its life, just sending nutrition to other parts of the body instead of antlers.
You're absolutely right. When the deer was born has a huge impact on the size of the animal the following year. Buck fawn born in May will be much healthier going into winter than a buck fawn born in July and won't need to spend as much energy recovering from the hard winter.
A 2.5 year old spike will be one for life, I've seen bull elk 4 or 5 year old a spike 6 feet long, I've seen 5 year old mule deer forkie 2 point 30 inches wide, that comes from his Nad being gouged next year he was the same. Also seen 5 point whitetail with 1 antler.
I've been seeing that a few times in the comments that a few guys have seen older spikes. I do think for whitetails at least, that these are outliers and most spikes will grow into nice bucks if given the chance. Thanks for the comment!
This is my first year hunting a new farm in KY and I am seeing a good amount of spikes. Kentucky is recognized as a big deer state and the deer are genetically uniform. Have you seen any studies that would determine the most common factor in whether a 1 and 1/2 year old deer ends up as a spike as compared to something larger? I am trying to figure out the hole in my bucket - nutrition, stress or something else.
From what I have gathered the biggest factor is age. The spike is most likely a late born fawn from the year before and did not have as much time to prepare for winter, thus making it more stressful.The following spring, he then needs to spend more energy into recovery while his cousins, who were born on time, can start putting energy into antler development. His first year with antlers will not be impressive to say the least, but if given a chance he will grow into a respectable buck. However, he won't ever top out where his cousins will. If all variables remain even, the fawns that were born on time will grow large antlers more times than not. I would focus on controlling what you can control and that's the food, cover, water, stress on your property. Part of the stress piece is controlling your doe herd to make sure you have you don't have too many. If you have unbalanced sex ratios (too many does for your bucks) then not every doe will be bred during the primary rut. That means they will be bred later in the season. The does that are bred late are the ones that drop the fawns late.. I am not saying eliminate your doe herd, but you want to make sure you manage it. Hope that makes sense!
@@whitetailevolution you are pretty much on point with the exception of the fact spikes tend to develop smaller antlers. I raise deer and have seen some spikes become absolute gIants. Once a spike always a spike is usually true because they get shot, and I’ve never seen a dead rack grow.
I've got a small bit of land that I've seen spikes go both ways, but never continue to be a spike. In my area, it is extremely common to see spikes. There is also a good genetic line and a bad one around as well. With this, I always wait and see what they turn into, some continue to have inferior antlers while other spikes make huge leaps in growth. I've got a 2.5 year old this year that has grown from a spike last season to a high 130 inch class 7 point this year. I've passed him several times since I really want to see what he turns into next season at 3.5 years old
That's awesome Matt! I hope you get to see him as a 3.5 year old. Spikes can turn into great bucks if given the chance.
Great video, very important information, let the young bucks walk, in a couple years, you'll be glad you did.
Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself!
Makes sense to me thank you
Anytime Leon! Thanks for watching!
Makes alot of sense
Almost too much sense :)
This guy is spot on....100 all true...it took me a long time to figure this out....spike law is a myth
Thanks Allen! I know a few people that believe the Once a Spike Always a Spike. Hopefully in time everyone will see that if given the chance, those spikes can turn into really nice bucks.
i think alot plays into it honestly... mainly genetics and nutrition... i have shot old spike bucks to get them out of the herd, these bucks barely had any teeth left their backs sagging and facial fur was more white. saying this i watched a 6point buck progress over time he had a white almost diamond patch at the back of his neck, when he would put his head down to eat the diamond was at the top of his neck by his shoulders... anyhow I've watched him progress through the years giving him bait and other calcium phosphate and other minerals and he grew into a beautiful 10 point but the following year i didn't see him anymore so idk if someone got him or not
I have seen a 2.5 year old spike. Late born rough winter. Aged by dnr. Good topic. With age they can still be a decent buck someday.
Completely agree! Need to let them grow up in order to see their true potential. Thanks Undeadbonez!
Can you do a video on the reasons "culling" in wild herds is ineffective? I see so many people online saying they shot a "cull" buck
70% of antler traits are from the doe. A cull buck in some areas are 3yr old 7 pointers for example.
I completely agree about antler traits carried in does. Do you believe it's effective culling free range deer herds?
Cull bucks are an excuse for shooting little bucks
Yeah we can do a video on that, I think it would be very similar to this one but we could also touch on what Undeadbonez stated here as well and that's that the Doe carries more than half of the antler genetics with them. So even if you could eliminate the inferior bucks on your property, you'd still be left with all the Does that are carrying the inferior antler genes. It's also challenging because most of us have small parcels and could never eliminate all of the bucks with subpar antlers that are in the neighborhood, almost an impossible task with a wild herd when owning a small parcel. Also most bucks here in Michigan don't live to see their 2nd or 3rd birthday. So until that statistic is addressed, culling inferior bucks wouldn't really do much anyways. It's my opinion that if landowners worked together to allow every buck to see their 3rd birthday, they would see a more positive result as opposed to trying to cull inferior bucks.
100% ! This is another really cool piece of information that I don't think many hunters realize. Thanks for sharing!
I'm in North Carolina and the last deer I harvested had 12 inch spikes! Big body though! Looked odd!
That's a huge spike! And it could have been older. It does happen every once in a while where a buck that's older than 1.5 years old will grow spikes, just not common. Also when a deer gets to be a certain age their antlers will actually start to regress and get smaller. Again, not too common in a high pressure state, but it does happen!
Charlie Alshiemer took a spike at 1 1/2 yo that maxed at 160 inches at 6 years old. He recorded its antlers every year.
I think I've seen that from him as well. I love it that he was able to track that particular deer and log the measurements. Pretty cool to be able to show people what a spike can amount to if given a chance.
i have lots of deer that come on to my property with messed up antlers spikes to 10 pointers i mean 90 percent i think is really odd
Could be older deer like you said, or maybe they are on the more aggressive side and like to fight? I've got a couple bucks that start the season with beautiful racks only to end the season with narly stubs haha.
Is a one sidded rack a genetic problem or an injury while he was growing his antlers
It can be genetic. But it can also be from an injury to the base of the antler. If it's an injury sometimes they will recover from it but other times they'll have a deformed antler for the rest of their life. The genetics of that buck won't change, so his offspring won't have deformed antlers, but that particular buck won't ever score very high. If that's what you're looking for on your property.
I killed a 5pt 16"wide 3 years ago and this year on same property we killed an exact mirror duplicate of that deer. So I have to say genetics definitely play a part
Also deer do not catch up. It is the same thing with steers if they are behind they never catch up to their brothers and sisters.
Thanks again for the comments Kaleb! Good luck this year!
do they get eye guards ?
I can see where eye guards would come in handy!
Analogy may work, but not on the deer you're talking. A one side expire is an injury in the next year. Like you said, the papers grew right. My property in Georgia. The first year on my cameras. It was a 6 inch spike. I'm on property in town Bo only urban hunting. 2 properties meet in the corner 60. 01 side I think it's 58 on the other. He is the only spike on my cameras. And I let you walk. And he did have a distinctive marky. So I knew it was the same one on his right side. He had a white patch the second year. So now he's got a big body now and he's. Bullying another deer around. But now they have grown to 10 inches and at the top of curve and then late December I took him out. We came into a recruiting 6 scenario 1 foggy morning like the bull in the woods. So I knew I had to take him out. He was bullion, other doughs flying with butt. So that does go with dope with double spikes, not one side. I would think he would have lasted a spike all his life
Would love an update if he showed back up.
He died :( One of the neighbors shot him. Would have been cool to show everyone what a 3 year old "spike" looked like.
Been telling my cousins this for a few years now. Just like "The Cull Buck". There is no such thing with free rang deer only on Managed properties do they exist and it's only because that deer won't meet the antler potential desired for that manager. Sooo many guys think Once A Spike, Always A Spike just not true. If I kept every 12" fish I would Never catch 16" Trout
Very true Captain Joe! Very hard to control genetic within a free range herd. And the most young bucks you let walk, the more older bucks you'll start seeing!
True
I don't think this guy made it through the season. He was ALL OVER the place up until the 2nd day of the firearm season.. then crickets.. Would have been cool to show everyone what a spike could amount to as a 3 year old if he was just given a chance.
Any news on that spike yet
I'm pretty sure he was shot in 2020 :( the last picture I have of him was on November 16th of that year. His two cousins made it though.. He was very aggressive and all over the place. Not a good personality to have if you're a buck trying to survive in Michigan!
So did he make it to 2021?
Unfortunately no :( The last picture I have of him is from 11/16/2020. He was all over the place, didn't learn his lesson. Just his personality. I knew that when I went out I'd probably see him but that meant that my neighbors had a good chance too.. And I think when the gun hunters came out they made their shot count this time. I was hoping he would make it so I could show what a 1.5 year old spike would look like as a 3.5 year old buck.
Glad in pa we got it has to be 3 points on one side.
Nice! APRs make a huge difference in helping those younger bucks make it to the next age class.
Have a similar rule here in FL. 3 on 1 side or 10" main beam. We don't have absolutely amazing deer here but I've seen a few 120's over the years. A good buck here is 16" wide. I have pictures of a 20" cowhorn/spike that is probably 4-5year old 200+lbs that needed shot but didn't meet club requirements
Button buck, spike, then branched antlers, is how it starts out from first born to 2.5 years old now if you see a sure enough cow horn spike yes he will be nothing but a spike i havent seen but 1 in my lifetime im 57
I haven't seen one of those yet but maybe one day.
Let them go and let them grow!!!
Yup! It's fun to watch an individual deer grow up!
It’s not as much that spikes will always be spikes but they rarely get close to 140 inches many studies have shown. Boone and crocket talks about how spikes never get big because their genetics are not good.
Great comment Kaleb and I agree, a spike will likely never fully catch up to his cousin who was a basket 8 the first year. I mainly wanted to show hunters here in Michigan that they do not need to shoot the spikes because if given the chance, those spikes will still grow into great bucks. Probably not Boone & Crockett bucks, but great bucks for a majority of Michigan hunters.
It depends on the habitat that it's in for example... here in Wisconsin we have alot of big bucks all over the state but the buck's on the west side of the state by Mississippi river are just monster's lol this is due to all the natural mineral deposits found near the river and surrounding area's and over time give off better genetics to their offspring! and year after year good genetics breed with more good genetics it just keeps growing Most people over think when it comes to whitetail, it's literally no different then humans anybody can put on muscle mass but it all starts with the fundamental basics, nutrition and what you eat and how much.. the myth once a 8 always a 8 is simply not true! Just that buck picks bad habitat to call home and isn't getting what it needs to progress so those old spike buck will never have a chance to be anything better then it is
That's not true at all. A spike can be a 200 inch deer woth age. My buddy had trail cam photos of a spike with about 15 inch long spikes on it. The same deer was in its 130s the next year. If u saw that thing u would assumed it was just a weird reck.
I think we're saying the same thing, Once a spike always a spike is something hunters have said for a long time for some reason. This video was trying to show that this is not true and if given the chance, that spike will grow into a nice buck.
@@whitetailevolution ok I apologize. I only have experience from that one deer. Even as a spike that deer was just bigger then usual. He is still alive to this day. Lives directly behind a Walmart. Can't wait to see what he is next year. Guessing he will be 3 or 4. Here in sw Pennsylvania the antler restriction made such a difference. Buddy got a 167 two years back. Thay was unheard of ten years ago around here. Only problem is we have the most corrupt game wardens u could imagine. Someone needs to do somethong about it. Its disgusting.
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I will only shoot a fully mature buck.So it will be at least 5 and half years old. 6 and half and 7 and half year old deer are really preferred.This is why I only have one buck in my entire life. I have many does because that's all I will eat.Bucks are a waste of time because of the hormones they have during rut.I would rather eat rotten eggs than bucks with decent antlers. So I pass on all those decent ones and hope the neighbors don't see um. It's a shame all the decent ones get popped and never get a chance to grow to there potential size.To many greedy idiots that doesn't know what a monster buck really looks like.
It's tough to know why the younger bucks get shot. Mostly likely just a lack of eduction on the subject but whatever the reason, if we can get more hunters to pass these younger bucks, everyone will see older bucks in the neighborhood.
If anything, the spikes are stronger considering what they had to go through.
They can turn into great bucks if given the chance! The spike in this video turned out to be a real fighter the following year. Real active and real aggressive. But I think that personality lead to him getting shot :(
Well that's not good, a spike buck is a better trophy then a 10 point.
The Michigan 11 point :)
They do remain a spike, but that's because ignorant hunters shoot them rather than let them grow into their full potential. Cold become a 170"we if they would let it.
This is still a thing? Damn, regression is real.
Ha yeah definitely still a thing. But I will say that I don't hear it nearly as often as I used to. So hopefully that means more and more hunters are being exposed to the information out there.
Hopefully this myth will go away. The problem here is that TPWD supports it by allowing spikes to be shot and people wonder why we have so few mature bucks.
Need to give the young bucks a chance if you want to see more older bucks. Doesn't have to be more complicated than that!
Nobody says that 🙄😂
You must not live in Michigan
@@whitetailevolution yes, I do
Biggest piece of false info ever. Heard this theory growing up and quickly learned it wasn’t true. Spikes may be a little behind other bucks or some may always have unique characteristics to their antlers but they can and will grow bigger racks each year their allowed to live!
Completely agree! I sometimes wonder how sayings like this even got started in the first place.. But the good news is that more and more hunters are getting exposed to the truth! Like you said, if given the chance, spikes can still grow into decent bucks!
Numerous studies out there showing spike bucks (1.5 yo) don't reach the same potential as their forked antler brothers (1.5 yo) later in life.
This is true, the spike won't likely ever get as big as his 6 point cousins, but if that spike was able to see his 3rd or even 4th birthday, he would still be a pretty nice buck. They might need an extra year to get there but if given a chance spikes can still grow into great deer.
Your totally wrong I've seen this with my own eyes spikes are always a spike I got few over 5 years old still a spike.
Agree to disagree. I do think that there are times when a spike will be a spike for more than one year, but the odds of that happening are not great. We have several 1.5 year old spikes on our properties each year. The ones that make it to see their 2nd birthday grow into nice bucks (non spikes). If "once a spike always a spike" were true, we'd have a boatload of spikes running around each year, and we don't. If you watched the trail camera footage within this video, most of them were of the same deer. He was a spike last year that was shot by my neighbor and this past year he grew into a nice 8 point. But I do think that you are correct in that a deer can be a spike more more than one year. Thanks for the comment!
With the help of science and research QDMA has dispelled this myth. Spikes are the result of poor nutrition or too many doe on the property so there are many fawns born later than they should and get less nutrition prior to the upcoming winter. If you have a lot of spikes on your property a) check your food sources b) if your food sources are good then start harvesting a good amount of doe to balance out the herd
Thanks John! Great explanation and advice!
I definitely don't believe once a spike always a spike. But I also have seen older deer that where still spikes for whatever reason . Once I seen one that had 4 inch bases and was a foot over its ears. It was crazy looking.
Total waste of 8 minutes
Nah, there's a lot of hunters around here that need to hear that and see the proof.
@@whitetailevolution sorry bout that I probably sounded like an ass. I've never heard that before and I've been hunting for 40+ years
Let them go and let them grow!!!
Keep it up!