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Looks like NASA got their flairs a bit more greasy than mine: kzhead.info/sun/e6h-hJeOrIZvnX0/bejne.html
One thing I noticed is that they say that they start the drop with full speed break to level out. I believe the virgin pod model does the same. kzhead.info/sun/e6h-hJeOrIZvnX0/bejne.htmlsi=aoHC2XAjqSeVzoZr&t=90
Bro please do a video building an RC version of the motor in this video > kzhead.info/sun/ndmDptSknH-nmmw/bejne.htmlsi=jffcn7eRH7dGxnwu
BUTTER! That just goes to show that... What does that go to show... You need more subscribers to get your R&D budget closer to NASA's!
Food for thought:! The rotor wash from the quad is causing the initial instability since it is tailwind blowing against the control surfaces, causing it to use up altitude to get stable.
makes sense. any idea how to fix it best?
longer string @@pinkpanther8427
@@pinkpanther8427 From the drone, 2 thoughts. Guide rod angled away from the drone, or towing it like a glider and releasing. Both have their own challenges.
Quick solution: Fly with a lot of forward speed during the drop
@@pinkpanther8427 Maybe two long rods to guide it and then keep the drone moving so their isn't a column of toward wash for the aircraft to be traveling through.
Making delta-wing-shaped holes in the ground is something I excel at, so here's some painfully-obtained suggestions. Highly-swept deltas have vanishingly small inertia in roll, but a load of inertia in pitch and yaw. Their tiny wingspan also provides negligible roll-damping. This is a bad dynamics situation, so if they start to tumble, it's often game-over = flat spin/frisbee. Using aileron won't help you recover; it only makes it worse. We lob little 'shuttles' piggy-back off of model rockets using a catapult: if the release isn't clean and the delta starts to corkscrew, she's a gonner. The vertical tail on your seriously-cool 3D printed glider is way too small for the large yaw inertia, but that's an easy fix. Bear in mind that at high angle of attack, the fuselage is blanking off a lot of the flow to the tail, so folk tend to go with twin-tails. The high-frequency roll oscillation is what highly-swept deltas do as they're stalling. I call it 'wibble'. The vortices coming off each wing are battling it out over the centre of the upper fuselage. If you don't get the nose down sharpish, then one vortex will eventually win, causing the delta to roll right over. I've written some notes on this stuff on our website: www.aspirespace.org.uk/downloads/Winged%20rockets%20and%20boost%20gliders.pdf
very useful response!
Really great content, Rick!
lets hope Daniel sees this
Is this why we don't really see delta wing aircraft used often, if at all? What you're describing exactly matches my experience with delta wing rc planes; supremely unstable, high speed required, be extremely cautious not to stall
Thanks William, don't know about 'expert', just been doing it a long time! The thing about Daniel's brilliant vids is that we get to see exactly what's happening from many camera angles, and even from the cockpit. Watching this video lit-up so many lightbulbs: "Hey, I've seen that glider behaviour before, but never that clearly." Daniel's footage of the glider dropping off the drone was a real eye-opener.
solar autonomous plane series continue when
He’s teasing us with this
+1
Summer maybe, when there's sun in the PNW.
I will
in the summer when there is sunlight probably
better help is a scam. Stop taking sponsorships from them. They replaced most of their professionals with chatbots that just make things worse
Be your own chatbot - is my philosophy.
Seriously. Their “professionals” were dubiously qualified in the first place.
AND they sell your data
Yeah and they also sell private information about you to advertisers
therapy is just astrology for people who don't want to admit their problems are just the consequences of their terrible life decisions.
My father worked on the NASA Space shuttle. He was a mechanical engineer. He worked on the vibrations in the rocket turbo pumps and the heat shielding. He worked all his life trying to make a circler wing aircraft. The advantage of them is the huge speed range they can fly at. The one big trouble is "dutch roll" you can see the same effect in early lifting bodies. That is why NASA had to add the small wings. My father sent letters back and forth to Alexander Lip push the famous German aerospace scientist. The father of the Delta wing on the F,102 and F-106 and all other deltas. A brilliant man
The main reason I believe the shuttle designs don't work well is because the design of the space shuttle was made for hypersonic flight. Even while landing, the shuttle was moving very fast. Theres just not much lift in that design to get stable flight at low speeds. This is challenging stuff though. The one thing I might recommend trying is maybe a adjustable wing? So u could get more speed at a dive, and more lift while gliding... Kinda closer to an old fighter plane like the F-111 for example. Might be worth a shot!
Or try first with some traditional wing design modelling some known airplane and only try the delta wing stuff after succeeding with that. Longer steady glide path with less emphasis on the last second pull up.
The drop from a weather balloon at the edge of space is going to be epic! 😜
There was a guy in Canada that did this a while back and it was pretty amazing. Had an automated return system. Sadly it was lost in the mountains.
kzhead.info/sun/pdR7ntmqsaB8nKc/bejne.html
David Windestål also did this
That's an awesome idea !
For anyone building flat foam wings.... Add another strip of foam on top of the leading edge that is 50% chord or a bit less. And round the leading edge. This creates a KF airfoil (KFm-2) and it will fly way better.
i bet the down wash of the drones blades is messing with the shuttles center of drag. its like throwing a dart backwards.
Dream Chaser's 2017 test flight used a three-point rig that released the vehicle while in stable forward flight. Your lifting-body planes spend half their decent just getting to stable flight, so a Dream Chaser styled release might benefit your tests.
KZheadrs really gotta stop taking money from better help
Falling with style
Sometimes when confronted with destructive and yet iterative testing - it can help to have some "pre-iteration" done where you map out your experiment and have several test samples ready to go on test day.
That landing at time 7:07 was excellent. Moving the CG back sure helped.👌🖖 Looks like the 3D printed plane needs a larger vertical fin, maybe even one under the tail to help tamp down the roll oscillations. You could even add a rudder with a gyro to help.
One thing that would be super cool to do and very useful for a landing would be having a sensor measuring AoA. I know this because I've made the eletronics for it in the past but never managed to put it on something flying. Maybe my next plane will have it. With 3d printing capabilities, making a sensor like that would be very easy. Cheers for the great content mate!!
Sweet! Happy to see the shuttle back. I printed the last one and it has been fun.
You need a far bigger vertical stabilizer. That should stop the spiraling
Rotor wash for sure is the biggest issue, you should do a short mission that moves from point A to B (then releases the plane) and have the quad move back to A. Like 10m movement and have the plane drop at the end of that point, at least you would only have the instantaneous wash and not the built up loiter wash.
I love the way you keep testing at it and working
Is it just me...or does seeing the "drop" give you the willies? ooof! So cool though! Keep em coming!!!!
play warthunder in first person
I work on the actual dream chaser so I'd love to see that one finalized!
Great video!. For some reason I started watching it after I first woke up and it turns out it was a really good way to get my brain ready to face the day. Maybe because of how you include all your experiments, not just the good ones? I'm going to try adding your videos to my morning routine and see if it helps. Thank you!
I'm a big fan of vertical wingtips, they look old school and for paper airplanes as a kid, seemed to help stabilize roll
I'm always late to the show. My only experience with gliders was a little circuit board I made for a friend who flew model gliders, it would beep a piezo if a servo movement drew the power rails below a preset limit, this way it would start making a noise before the batteries went flat.
I love, love, love when you show footage of you building anything!
I wonder if some type of ground launch system wouldn't be better? Catapult or rocket motor? This way you are already in forward powered flight and then convert to gliding under full control?
really excited to see you revisit this concept.
this is a really fun video!!! a lot of these designs you came up with look like f-zero machines
I'm here for exactly this kind of projects! MORE ITERATIONS! :D
Good effort. Amazing. Love watching your iterations.
Would love to see you try a skydiver / belly-flop system like the SpaceX Starship.
RCTF could team up with BPS.apace to make that happen!
I've been bingeing all your videos for the past couple weeks. I hope Spring brings a bunch of new content.
SO VERY COOL! Great job on the whole process
I remember sending you a email maybe 8 or so years ago with our own foam board design. One of my fave channels mate.
You make enough new airplanes that it might be cool for you to make a wind tunnel to test them in and fine tune the controller. Might make for a nice build video and help get more successes out of these builds.
a small solid fuel rocket engine in the back of the foam shuttle would be great along with cameras
I went through some of this waaaay back experimenting with Deltas and other flying wings. First, most of those models looked like they need much taller vertical stabs. At such low Reynolds numbers and short coupling, a small vertical doesn't have the authority to keep it pointed in the right direction with all of that wing wash spiraling up at the tail. The fact they never really achieved stability shows that. CG is also super sensitive at small scale like this, so there's a lot at play. I love your videos and you do awesome work so I commend the work involved to iron out the bugs!! 👏👍
Good to see you back at this project - I enjoyed your previous attempts. I suggest perhaps some simple calcs up front to see if a simple tube with delta wings can be aerodynamically stable and at what speed. You'd think the shuttle would be as simple as you could go but I think you can go simpler.
Would it help to have the glider much further away from the drone before the drop. That might minimize the amount of turbulent roll it experiences from the quad copter?
Great video. Some negative washout in the wing tip will help. Then if you can incorporate a wing tip with dihedral
Ya, I'm in agreement. Something needs to be designed into the wing/lifting body to so that it naturally seeks stability. I don't know if there is enough "wing" here to do what you suggested, but I think that's the right idea.
I wonder if the downdraft of the lifting drone is setting it up for failure giving it less altitude to work with. I like the idea of dropping from forward flight where it starts off in a stable mode out of the gate. Probably would make things more predictable and tunable.
My first thought would be to increase the vertical stabilizer. I have designed quite a few model airplanes myself, but never for this part of the flight envelope - so I may be wrong. However, this was my first thought.
100%
Love this project. Please keep it up!
Wonderful, well done Dan
Use a longer tether to stay out of more prop wash and it will start flying sooner... that release cost too much altitude with the dirty air just below the drone. You can see it clearly everytime. Very cool.
I've loved watching you since you were a kid. You really maximize the possibilities of RC hobby grade equipment and open-source automation capabilities. A few small tweaks to your development goals and you could have a multi billion-dollar Defense/Defense Research company using your current skillset to shift the cost structure of short-range anti-drone air defense and front-line guided munitions. Not kidding.
Dihedral angle in the wing is the solution for roll axis stability.
I've been waiting for this for a long time
Please please please make a autonomous POWERED high speed shuttle glider go waypoints! That would be so awesome!! Love your approach and passion!!
You could 3d print some little kerbals as crew. Best test pilots in the business!
Watching those "landings", I feel a little Steve Austin (Bruce Peterson) would be more appropriate..
Hmm. Are home-made wind tunnel tests an achievable idea? Since a big issue here was repeatability, maybe there's something in between CAD and real life that could provide further data. It sounds hard to build a homemade wind tunnel that can do that, but Daniel and builders like him have shown that home engineers can do all kinds of tough projects.
Hear me out: Downward facing catapult launcher on the drone to give the glider some initial airspeed. Maybe just something like a couple rubber bands to get it moving and give it a more consistent launch.
This is my favourite channel on KZhead and today I learned I want even subscribed. It just always shows up in my feed.
Attach a quick release weight on a servo and release when it's stable. And throw a flag or something on the weight so you can find it later.
I ALWAYS love your lifting body videos!!!
I would want a small sensor that could sense air and calculate ANGLE OF ATTACK or AOA. Modulating this to near 1.00 just prior to touchdown would yield the flight you desire. But it would need a computer to sense air, direction, altitude, etc. Then you could program it for the ideal flight.
Thank you so much for all your inspiring content!! Love all your rc stuff tests and your awsome voice over! maybe you should consider using an more proven design geometry for your tests, especially for software relating tests. I think the multiplex funjet design for example could be an option as a really nicely flying glider and its made out of EPP ;) please keep on going and best wishes from germany!
I'll come back to watch later, but I'm expecting the "Aerodynamics of a flying brick"
try adding features to improve the low speed stalling situation... like humps in the leading edge, which funnel more air across the surface. also, placing the antennas in front of the leading edge didn't do the airflow any good, since they cause irregular pressures
Maybe if it starts more horizontally it will fly better. Hook up the launch rail at something like a 30 deg. angle to the drone's level flight. Fix remote controlled clamp(s) on the rail that hold the glider in that position and release it from that angle.
Really like high speed landing when they work.
Well, try Portugal :D That will help you with the mental health thing about the weather! Anyway...! You pulled a nice one on the shuttle! 👌👌👌👌
The ending shot is why i just printed my m-jet sprint out of tpu so when i take it pn creeks i dont punch a hole in the hull.
My favorite series!
Try launching a radio control Shuttle shape from an Estes model rocket. Worked for me, after a few decades. You just told me to make it work on Otto Pilot. Game changer.
I have the same interest. Find it really fun and neat. Also love the space shuttle. Also, (kind of?) similarly, the idea of the Aliens drop-ship also interests me. I believe the excitement of the drop in Aliens was of course for movie excitement, but technically speaking, they could do something like that on purpose to conserve fuel on re-entry for use during re-ascent.
try putting some winglets on. Also you might want to sharpen the forward strake leading edge and you need more or a flat top than a rounded one for lifting bodies to work best.
Have you seen the RC delta jet "Inferno"? Afaik, the designer built that if he ever lost jet power, it could still be able to glide to safety. I think he mentions it in an interview.
Would love to see a scale Venture Star. And as always, awesome vid!
I also have a strange attraction towards high wing loading rc gliders so keep up! ;)
I would entertain using PETG in place of PLA for your gliders. It’s a little more elastic and ever so slightly more dense than PLA. There might not be a whole lot of differences but it’s worth a shot.
A disc launched glider might be interesting to try!
Add a larger tail fin to the 3d printed plane
Bro is bootstrapping the next Lockheed Martin and he doesn't even know it
ikr? casually developing glide bombs
@@cho4d ikr is one of dumbest sayings ever.
Yoo that Dream Chaser at the start looked sick! Shame it didn’t fly. Space Shuttle is awesome too!
So, one thing to consider is that the oscillation may be a result of over speed and not over tuning. You very easily could be exceeding the max speed limit of the aircraft, causing it to become unstable.
Due to your efforts on building the solar plane back then. I'm getting ready to start my rc fixed wing career. What about you creating a tutorial about ardupilot, waypoint missions, your experiences, fpv gear and handling? would much appreciate it.
you start off with the drone making a lot of down wind from the prop wash so why not use some forward speed and release in the proper direction like into the wind toward the clear landing area of the field.
I think a small ventral fin would help with the roll oscillations.
sounds really cool
try putting the vertical stabilizer on the fin. not the center. the blunt nose prevents some of the air going to the vertical fin, rendering it useless. hence why nasa put theirs on the wingtip.
Totally digging the Easter Shuttle 😀
Something to think about:! Full scale the release is done from a forward flying aircraft. The tailwind from the quadcopter is probably a cause of instability.
Figuring out some way to simulate the planes or another way to decrease iteration time would make this project easier.
Nice idea. Well done
so instead of gluing it together, consider "pinning" it with carbon rods. on each end, use a small spring, washer, and 'hair pin'. the springs provide the clamping force and when one part breaks, you may be able to reuse other parts. OFC, you could just print the pins in, but I have zero experience with 3D printing, so I don't know how well this would work.
As these are actively controlled putting the weight very nose heavy should be possible and still get it to 'fly'. That would then help it accelerate nose down more cleanly as you have put the drag and mass far enough apart... Of course if you or the code don't pull up at the right time it will turn into a lawn dart, or stall and then turn into lawn dart, as you will really need good airspeed to have enough control to lift the heavy nose...
you could try to shoot it up with a model rocket on a launch craft and disconnect it on the upper arch, so you have airspeed and altitude. nice video daniel!
I have a shuttle design I want to build and launch as a rocket and then have it return to base by gliding using ardupilot. The thing is, it would be starting at high speed, reaching its peak altitude before switching to auto pilot. Level flight then circle the home gps until it lands.
the space shuttle if it had gear would be so good
Hey Daniel I think your vertical stabilizer is in the wake of the delta wing during spinning and cant stabilize it. Try a downward facing one or winglets (up and down). That should help.
You have to imagine that these aircraft were built to carry a pilot back then, completely without an Ardupilot and computer simulations. What a hero.
You need something like the 747 used to carry the Shuttle for your approach and landing tests.
Have you watched when James may flew a model glider 21 miles autonomously. The glider was dropped from a helicopter but to protect it from the downdraft it was in a box about 50 feet below.
Thumbs up for flying at 60 Acres Park!
You might want to build a small wind tunnel to get the basic aerodynamic controls and tuning right before destroying the models with 400' drops. Wright brothers this thing!
Hi. Would drpping from a plane yield a better result? Seemed like downdraft from the quad was affecting it on release. Just wondering. I'm no engineer.
add an AoA vane and set a target AoA for each altitude as well as a pitch
Many full size aircraft use barometric altimeters ABOVE a certain height. Radar altimeters at lower altitudes, as at a certain altitude, they lose effectiveness. Baro is not stable enough close to the ground. If you have the means, fly over a pond/body of water to a grass field, then over a road, measure the barometric pressures at various altitudes.