Is It Time For Gay Pride To Go Away? - Josh Szeps
Josh Szeps is a broadcaster, podcast host, and a journalist.
What are the things you can't criticise? What about Gay Pride in Australia? What if you're a gay man? What about criticising the cringe of the anti-woke Right? Everyone is getting the heat today, including Josh's ex-employer the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

Expect to learn what the difference is between getting cancelled by the left and right, why we feel the need to forensically pick through public figures' lives, why so many people believe the world is ruined, the problem with the anti-anti woke, what JK Rowling has been up to, what happened to the indigenous Australian people apology trend and much more…
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00:00 We Need to Move on From the Culture War
04:58 Why the Trans Debate is So Captivating
11:47 Josh’s Journey Through Mainstream Media
19:30 The Landscape of Social Justice in Australia
25:23 What Do Gay People Think About Pride?
30:59 Why Josh Had to Leave Broadcasting
34:37 Is the Media Trying to Make Everyone Trans?
37:58 The Culture Wars in Australia
41:17 Why the UK & Australia Love Order
46:58 Well-Meaning Disagreements on the Internet
56:43 Why the Equality Movement is Patronising
1:00:45 The Problem With the Anti-Woke Right
1:07:47 Getting Live Shows Cancelled
1:13:10 Why Taboo Opinions Are Labelled as Hate
1:17:43 The Difficulty of Unreliable Allies
1:28:19 Should People Pick Their Battles?
1:35:08 Is There Hope for the Next 5 Years?
1:40:12 The Untold Danger of Your Phone
1:47:41 Are We Paying the Costs for Future Generations?
1:55:21 Where to Find Josh
Josh Szeps is a journalist and the host of "Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps". Find it on Substack and KZhead
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Hello you savages. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - chriswillx.com/books/ Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 We Need to Move on From the Culture War 04:58 Why the Trans Debate is So Captivating 11:47 Josh’s Journey Through Mainstream Media 19:30 The Landscape of Social Justice in Australia 25:23 What Do Gay People Think About Pride? 30:59 Why Josh Had to Leave Broadcasting 34:37 Is the Media Trying to Make Everyone Trans? 37:58 The Culture Wars in Australia 41:17 Why the UK & Australia Love Order 46:58 Well-Meaning Disagreements on the Internet 56:43 Why the Equality Movement is Patronising 1:00:45 The Problem With the Anti-Woke Right 1:07:47 Getting Live Shows Cancelled 1:13:10 Why Taboo Opinions Are Labelled as Hate 1:17:43 The Difficulty of Unreliable Allies 1:28:19 Should People Pick Their Battles? 1:35:08 Is There Hope for the Next 5 Years? 1:40:12 The Untold Danger of Your Phone 1:47:41 Are We Paying the Costs for Future Generations? 1:55:21 Where to Find Josh
I am a medical provider. in 25 years of practice I have had two transgender patients. one of them, extremely rare , was a female with gender dysphoria. This completely jibes with the reported numbers in scientific studies over the last 100 yrs. of course, I have had thousands of bisexual and gay patients. The current number of reported transgender do not biologically or mathematically make sense outside of social contagion.
I've been active in the LGBT community since 1980. There were always very few trans people among us, I don't know when the number skyrocketed, the last ten or 15 years maybe. The 1 in 10,000 number rings true to me. I've heard 1 in 3,000 from Jordan Peterson recently. That may be true, he's a big critic of gender ideology. There were always more drag queens in our community but they were not the same as trans, they were female impersonators who lived as gay men when not performing. There were also a few men with autogynophelia hanging out with us back in the day, and they didn't pretend to be otherwise. Generally straight men with a fetish for wearing women's clothing, only gay bars welcomed them. We called them 'transvestites' to distinguish them from 'transsexuals', the PC term for transgender in the 80s and 90s. We knew and respected the differences between these 3 groups. The people with gender dysphoria, transgender people, people who wanted to live as women full time, were an extremely small minority. I had one friend in the 80s who got surgery, MTF, she had to attend counseling sessions for two years to determine if it was the right choice. That seemed logical, considering how extreme this intervention is. What's going on today is bonkers, as you say, it's a social contagion.
That's because we we trust prepubesant children to have deep philosophically introspective understandings about their sexual identities before ever knowing what romantic love even feels like, or adulthood, or an adult body... Probably not the most sound basis, that.
@@marcusaxel3425 I first began noticing it with the occasional butch lesbian that would transition in the late 00s/early 2010s. Then the bathroom conversation came up in 2012-2014. Then it exploded after that. And COVID brought with it non-binary, and all the gender queer, etc. nonsense.
My father's a counsellor, and in the last five years he's counselled 3 young girls who thought they were trans, and with no convincing from my dad, they all eventually changed their minds.
spelling checks out
I'm a gay dude and I've always believed "pride" is the wrong emotion. Pride is something someone feels when they do a good job. I had nothing to do with being gay (or white for that matter), so why be proud of it? In my estimation the correct emotion is absence of shame.
I'm not religious but it doesn't get past me that "pride" is a one of the deadly sins. I agree with you that "the correct emotion is absence of shame", well said! ❤
Pride events should be banned anyway. Same as that rainbow flag everywhere. It's so annoying.
'Courage' would've been a more accurate emotion for coming out, especially in times when it used to be a criminal offense.
Pride is also one of the 7 deadly sins.
Pride is the absence of shame, or it's the antidote perhaps. That's exactly why this term was adopted 50 years ago. I'm not attached to it and would support moving on, but I'm old enough to understand the original meaning. Just try to imagine living in a world where your relationship with another adult was categorized as a sex crime and much of the population viewed it as no better than pedophilia. The closet was enforced with the rule of law and risk of job loss and social ostracism. 'Shame' doesn't begin to describe it and it was literally an act of bravery to show up to a Pride march in the 1970s.
Personally all “pride” “heritage” and “history” months need to go. History is history. Saying that as a gay guy!
The straights will never pick you.
Agreed. It is always used as a means to divide and conquer.
Pride month is not really necessary. Each city/region can have its own long weekend to party.
Well let’s get rid of st Patrick’s day and Fourth of July too
@@user-gp5rt9ol5o False equivalency.
Love based gay dudes! Makes me feel less alone 👊🏻 So done with the Rainbow mafia!
He isnt gay; he has spent years telling gay men he is actually bisexual
Since when does BBC and NPR not alienate people? They constantly take on politically extreme positions.
That was his point. They don't see their positions as political, much less extreme. They see it as common sense reality. It can't be questioned even it is realized. It is the water they swim in. That's why from their location on the grid, any deviations is "extreme". It is a polar position, so all directions from the pole are the wrong direction. Think of being at the geographic north pole. All directions are south.
@@christopherjagge You need to read the new piece on NPR in Bari Weiss' publication.
I was just going to mention that Bari Weiss did an amazing interview with a 25 year NPR staffer where he explains how it has changed over time to no longer represent the mainstream.
@@northernfpv9562 It's crazy. All the liberals I know talk about how they can't listen to NPR. It's not just the Right that hates it.
That Antiques Roadshow is so political & a turn off.
I attended the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Pride Parade for years in the early 90's - at that time it was a hugely influential part of making LGB people accepted and equal. But as time went on and it become a nationally televised event (the ONLY LGB event on television) I think it actually PERPETUATED gay stereotypes much more than it helped. Watching half naked men in gold lycra shorts dancing up Oxford St to "we are family" is exactly what the homophobic community thinks gay people are like everyday, not once a year. Let it go.
as someone who participated in Calf in 1974, I agree
I agree, they're always interviewed and say 'gay people are just ordinary people like you...." - then why are you dancing up the street with your arse on display?
I lived in Sydney for 18 years and always went to the Gay & Lesbian (remember them?) Mardi Gras, it was a wonderful event. Since I've been gone for 8 years I've watched it on T.V. and the last two ones it was basically a pronoun fest on the screen and all about identity and LGBTQI+ gender crap.
So what do they have to be proud of?
Who cares what the ''homophobic community'' thinks of us? Please. It is not our responsibility to make ourselves more palatable to the people who already hate us.
Most Australians hate the announcing of the traditional land and think it is stupid and pointless. They are just mostly silent about it in public.
I’m an Aussie and hate is probably not the right term but i do agree that it is not received the way it is likely intended.
LoL, I watch the eyes roll.
Yeah I think Josh has this one wrong. Land acknowledgements are definitionally political in that they tie rightful land ownership to specific points in history chosen very intentionally by partisans. There is no neutrality to be had in going along with them. Moreso I'd argue they're harmful in their promotion of racial/ethnic collectivism--which hasn't historically been an awesome thing.
@@johnyoung3397 I agree and our recent referendum showed that the majority, including Aboriginals, do not want to go down this path. At the end of the day he represents the inner city elites, nobody else.
I'm not against it but I think it's lame AF when there's no indigenous person in the room to hear it. If you can't get it together to gather one or more black fellas to attend your event, you shouldn't be thanking them in front of white people.
One disappointing thing from Josh was that he subscribed to this flawed, toxic logic of "your tribe/political side did something wrong 20/30/40 years ago, therefore you have no moral standing to take a stance about this" when it came to cancel culture.
I’m a middle aged Aussie woman. I think Josh has it wrong on a couple of counts. The ABC is woke AF and absolutely biased in its coverage of trans issues. And there is a huge culture war going on - the general population are generally fed up with all the nonsense perpetuated by most organisations who are completely captured by the current ideology.
Someone should schedule gay pride 🏳️🌈 parade during Ramadan in Ilhan Omar’s district! In MN,, Ask her to ask for support for LGBT COMMUNITY from Islam ! And video tape
You do realise that there are many proud gay Muslims in the west right who participate in Pride? Whatever version of Islam the media and the small c conservatives are peddling is bullshit.
The very thing I'm against: Shoving my sexuality in the face of whom I disagree. Have we not had enough of that as of late?
@@scratchinjack608I see where he gets it, the same group that uses gay sexuality as a club against Christianity then champions Islam and Islamic groups.
Hamtramck, Michigan is in her district, and after electing a 100% Muslim city council they banned the flying of "gay pride" (and all other non-state/non-US) flags on city buildings. Frankly, I'll take it.
When I was an adolescent and young teen girl in the 80s/90s, I had an incredibly difficult time fitting in with other girls. All of my friends were male, and as a result most of the activities I participated in socially were “guy” activities-playing pickup games of football or basketball, playing video games, etc. It was only later in my late teens and early 20s that I made more female friends and did more stereotypical female things. At the time, no one judged me for this, but today I most certainly would have been labeled as gender confused or trans. That thought is so depressing. How many kids are we putting through unnecessary questioning of their identity with this constant fixation with labels?
We used to call that a tomboy and there was nothing wrong with it we had effeminite guys as well, the majority of people mature out of this, doesn't;t mean you have to be a gender stereotype orthat if you arent; you are one of the other 100+ special ones -because everyone has to be special now.
That's the thing that disturbs me the most about this fad. I feel like in the '90s and sort of early 2000s, a lot of us young people (boy, that was a long time ago) were concerned about letting people express themselves as individuals without constraints based on gender, so a girl like you being more "masculine" or a boy not having to be the stereotypical jock, tough guy, whether gay or not, just realizing we all have moments where we're or gender but may not act in conformity with some kind of 1950s vision of what a man or woman acts like. In that way, this movement (fad, trend?) seems very regressive and pushing people back into categories that we thought we were breaking, where you could act how you felt and still be a proper "man" or a "woman."
Interesting and nuanced discussion -- definitely a heterodox guest. I can't speak to the Australian experience, but here in Canada there is a silencing of pretty much anyone not going along with with fairly radical critical social justice ideologies. So, I think the characterization of the "anti-woke" as a bunch of degenerates is wrongheaded and should probably be thought-out a bit more. The silent centrist majority is being gaslit, over here. Unfortunately, we need the anti-wokesters until such time as ideological capture is not the norm in media, education, and policy. Again, at least in the Canadian context.
As an American it seems like y’all have rationalized yourselves into a corner. By that I mean every Canadian has so much common sense, that those people end up getting away with manipulating the state because everyone else is trying to live and let live. What do you think? Is it as dystopian as the attempts in America? Is there Canadian outrage, or a feeling it’s just a normal political shift? In America the situation is becoming increasingly dire- and many people are becoming more agitated and are intentionally reinforcing their (maybe often more traditional) values.
@@rykertrombly In addition to the live-and-let-live attitude that you mention, there is an important missing piece: That many of these policies and ideologies were brought in while Canadians were looking elsewhere. We just didn't know it was happening. Much of the language of Critical Theory is technical and uses words in ways that don't match up with what the average Canadian thinks those words mean. I think most Canadians, if they had the time to parse the arcane language and aims of Critical Theory, would be opposed to much of it. Transparency would be great, and open debate about these ideas would help a lot. But, cancel culture and self-censorship are quite powerful up here. So, that debate really isn't happening (yet).... I am hopeful that Canada will catch on, though....
Canada is about to have conservative federal leadership and Ontario where you’d think would be the most progressive has two terms of conservative government now. I think you’re heavily overplaying all this. Federal media newspapers and such have openly right wing writers as it should be because diversity of opinions and perspective is important, r/Canada is the most right wing “national politics” subreddit I’ve ever seen. You go and talk to people in city cores, fairly progressive, go in the suburbs and see fairly conservative ideas regardless of their national background. Blue collar work still has plenty of uhh let’s just say the usual locker room talk going on if not on uptick? HR and all that in white collar is a case-by-case basics because the reality of how private institutions operate can vary tremendously. As far as universities, all I’ll say is that things were much more socialist 100 years ago, and pretty often there’s stuff like anti-abortion various religions etc promoting themselves on campus grounds. Genuinely I don’t see silencing going on here, what I see is more left wing social identity ideas being allowed to more openly broadcasted. Trucker anti-vax mandate protests were bigger than anything else in Canada the past 15+ years with many business owners openly supporting them and no serious consequence
@@Audreythescrub Thanks for responding. I hope you are right and that it is overplayed. But, it is a phenomenon that has been building for a couple of decades and it has real momentum. But, hope you are right and things will cool off with activist educators and journalists... We'll see!
IUt's litereally legally required for doctors to validate gender dysforia in Ontario at least, and speaking against the other letters than LGB is being made hatespeach with a jail term if the latest bill by the so called Liberals goes through
The problem with the trans movement is the way that they pushed their ideology toward kids and that they want to equate a women to a trans women.
the problem with the movement... is the movement
It's eugenics in a new coat. But now they're convincing the 'undesirables' to sterilize themselves.
@@TheMightyWalkWhich means what?
The problem is that a topic that was relevant to the lives of a very small group of people was used by extreme leftism as a tool to continue the Marxist strategy of promoting the victims and victimizers narrative. It's been going on for more than a century. Black Panthers and third wave feminists in the 60's are one example of groups that were inspired/radicalized by Marxism. Now you have BLM with leaders that admit publicly that they are Marxists. The LGBTQ+ community is just the latest to be hijacked and used as a political weapon against western civilization. Schools and mass media, as well as social media, amplified the issue to the point of hysteria, where all these people are claiming to be trans are coming from out of nowhere. Kids don't have a clue what this is all about unless their teachers push it on them and introduce this concept in school. Then you have people that are identifying as one of dozens of different genders because their sense of self-worth comes from likes and retweets, and they'll morph into whatever identity is necessary to get the most "positive" reinforcement and validation from other people online.
@@januarysson5633 it shouldnt exist at all .... its psycho
A lot of this is another way of saying "Unilaterally rejecting everything someone says simply for what team they play on is just as blind and unilaterally endorsing it because they happen to be on your team." I wish it weren't necessary and important and to re-hear the same argument of "think for your own self" and "use rationality and not allegiance to determine your views". Unfortunately, in current era, this bears repeating a thousand times over. Thanks for great interview 👍
Acceptance is a good thing. Ramming it down your throat 24/7 is too much. You have acceptance, you don't need our approval for everything.
Victimhood is the new epidemic. You can barely find a book, a movie, a story, a character, or a movement without it.
It's the new privilege and white middle-class women love it.
Yes, especially the victimhood of many people who claim to be terrorized by minorities and everything being „woke“. Biggest victims of all…
Aren't we all victims of those claiming victimhood? Regardless of our view, we have to deal with folks asking for, at a minimum recognition, and in many cases changes to laws. Obviously, I'm being facetious, but you see a grain of truth at the core of my point.
And people will try and say that marxisim hasn't weaved itself into almost every part of our lives.
People mistake excuses for explanations. We all have challenges, but using excuses to fill our sails is toxic for society and brews a dramatic culture.
I first started going to Pride about 15yrs ago, and it was just such a fun vibe and place where it felt like people could belong. I still think it has elements of that, but over the years the exhibitionism, tribalism, push of gender ideology and political radicalism has just run rampant.
When he talked about a 15 year old looking at a stereotypical gay man, and going through the process of trying to figure out your sexuality while realizing that the stereotype isn't you, he pretty much described me. It's always about letting the freak flag fly, and having your sexuality be everything about you. 20 years later I still feel a bit at odds with the gay community. I'm not saying I'm better than them, or above them in anyway, but I don't align with everything they represent nowadays. Which can feel rather isolating, but you learn to deal with it.
there isn't a gay community, and there isn't a 'them'
What is a "stereotypical" gay man? What does that even mean? I thought everyone was different and unique no??
He is clearly referring to the stereotypical presentation of gay men we often see in media. The very effeminate, flamboyant gay guy. Obviously, he knows that not all gay men are the same based on his comment. One can acknowledge that stereotypes exist without believing that they are truly representative of the group.
@@gwenjackson8583 Don't buy it. I'm a gay dude. Masculine as can be. Most gay men I encounter are normal, masculine, men. That idea of the really effeminate gay man is dumb and overplayed.
@@nickbarcheck1019 Hence the concept of stereotype...
Are we not going to talk about his point on porn? "Well this highly successful actress is rich and having fun, so where's the problem with porn?" Yikes.
Yes. It’s time we put a stop to this nonsense. I work for a large corporation and the self proclaimed virtue is nauseating. Rainbow propaganda everywhere.
But if you want to display the American flag, you get labelled a racist bigot
2.5 years ago it was josh virtue signaling, then the enemy was anyone who questioned lockdowns and covid shots for toddlers
I agree. That mess has heavily damaged society. Should never have happened.
Gay dude here and we. do not. NEED Pride month when everyday, there seems to be a circuit party. It had a purpose now that we're mainstream, why? Love from Texas guys. Love the Channel.
I find it interesting that the criticisms of the American right are about something that happened 70 years ago by people who aren't even alive anymore. I agree with everything he said, and there are things to criticize the right for, but it's clear from this type of criticism that they are not the bull in the china shop at the moment.
Very well put. The modern right attempt cancellation and fail at every corner (bud light being the exception and they’re already on the bounce back so also ineffective). The modern right are not today’s issue when it comes to cancel culture.
I get the impression that his base of deep knowledge extends only from 1940 to now. I dunno, something about the way he talks about some things makes it feel like he's lacking in knowledge.
Joseph McCarthy was right about one thing. There were communists in the State Department.
"The Right perfected cancel culture" is a bit of an extraordinary claim to just toss out there as a fact, especially considering everything else discussed in this podcast episode.
Chris has had professors with data showing that the impact now is far larger than under Mcathrthy. I really would his whole "I don't have a team stance" and " all people should discuss issues l" stance
As a Tomboy growing up, I guarantee you, my mother would have wanted me to transition. I thank the lord every day I grew up before all this horrific child abuse and mutilation became a thing.
Agreed with this guy on a fair few things here. One thing that seemed off was when he was talking about cancel culture. His pointing to McCarthyism was whataboutism. He’s not wrong that McCarthyism was carried out by the right and some of the right loved it. However, the right is not the issue of present times. They still try to cancel, but with extremely limited success because almost nobody with any power is openly right leaning or sympathetic to the right. Not the governments (even when they claim to be a right wing party), courts, HR teams, police, big media, financial institutions, educational institutions, etc. The present day issue is cancellation by the left, which is equally (if not more) vicious in nature, devastating in effect, triggered without warning and for the slightest misalignment of points of view. I’m not sure either that ‘The right perfected cancel culture’. There were plenty of examples of effective cancel culture prior to McCarthy, carried out by the left. To be honest, it’s not really important who invented it or perfected it. It doesn’t help us overcome the issue today and is nothing but petty finger pointing. It doesn’t add anything to the conversation to say it in my opinion.
Communists were indeed entrenched in our nation, especially in Hollywood, back when McCarthy was being attacked for going after them. Also, McCarthy wasn't insisting that your run of the mill citizen in the country should have their door kicked in by law enforcement for having an opinion that was sympathetic to communism. He was focusing on people in power, or those who had actual influence in society. Suggesting this was a form of cancel culture is ridiculous. It's like saying that trying to get rid of the uni-party globalists in our federal government is cancel culture.
As an older gay man myself, Pride is no longer relevant, as compared to my teens in the 80’s, it’s no longer a community event and has now been infiltrated and hijacked into becoming a commercial event
6:15 “everyone will concede, who is not a bigot” Yeah, already framing the argument the way you want. You’ve just labeled every sincerely faithful practicing member of most world religions a bigot.
Well he’s framing the argument that if you don’t believe trans people exist, or that you believe their experience/emotions are not legitimate, then yes. That would make you the exact definition of a the word bigot to that group of people.
@@burdman707 of course, than people do not exist as such. The claim about oneself is on par with patients of mine who have reported telephone poles talking to them
@@johnl5316 Your patients can differentiate more between a pole and a person than you can between the words then and than.
@@burdman707people with gender disphoria exist but its rare .
@@burdman707 ...at least they weren't talking to telephone polls.
I don't really understand the stance Josh had on McCarthyism vs reactionists from cancel culture today. The people peddling McCarthyism are dead, it's not particularly relevant. Other than that the persecution now comes from the other side. It's the same energy as attributing any random white person today to slavery, or any other past discretion any particular people had to a generation removed... Great interview, I don't particularly agree with the usefulness of that opinion.
This is a great conversation. I’d say that in regards to cancel culture, I do understand that the right used to be the chief perpetrators, but that doesn’t address the issues we’re facing at the moment. Personally, I was liberal up until last year. I started to catch on when I got banned from a major subreddit just for saying children shouldn’t be given puberty blockers. I got banned for another just for offering a perspective on the border crisis as someone who lives in Mexico. I was banned in the basis that there was no border crisis and it was misinformation. Most of Reddit is completely controlled by left-wing ideology and it’s impossible to use as a conservative if you want to discuss anything remotely political outside of a few niche subreddits. It’s what ultimately put me down the path of researching conservatism, as I couldn’t speak with my own party with any level of nuance. The conservatives, to my shock, are way more open to constructive dialogues on social issues and there’s a lot less uniformity of opinion. My guess is a lot of liberals like myself have moved across the aisle and toned down the rhetoric in the past few years.
I was also on reddit but it definitely got capture by the radicals, mostly due to mods, there are really good vids breaking it down
Pretty cool that Aussies are some of the biggest consumers of Chris Williamson's podcasts. I like this show for it's critical thinking and fresh perspectives offered, even if I don't agree with 100% of what is said. I'm glad to know there are many other critical thinkers here in Australia.
Pride is one of the tradional Seven Deadly Sins
Yes, to be prideful is to be arrogant. It's the opposite of being humble and virtuous.
I always thought “proud to be an American” wasn’t healthy. Grateful to be an American was more healthy.
It is the most deadly.
The 'pride' in the seven deadly sins is more about excessive pride. For example, say you did incredibly well in a test and felt proud of your hard work, that's clearly not a sin. Whereas if you are excessively proud of a minor test result it becomes more about arrogance and vanity.
I think in the gay context pride means absence of shame about being gay. It’s not like being homosexual is an achievement whereby one deserves a medal or something.
Historically, "Pride" was meant to mean something less like "hubris" and more like "lack of shame" or "self-acceptance". In the era of kids being kidnapped for conversion therapy camps or ostracized by family or physically assaulted by total strangers, this movement-level push for self-acceptance was important. Now it's just... using cola instead of milk on your cereal. It's far, far too much of a thing that's good in moderation but obnoxious when there's too much of it. Pride, as a movement, can only be "saved" if we scrap it for 15-30 years - basically skip a generation - then _maybe_ bring back a more moderated version. One that isn't funded by corporate interests.
Its still is the same thing as it’s historical meaning , if you roll it back it will go back to where it is. It’s a slippery slope . It doesn’t belong here
Then scrap the term pride and go with the term self acceptance. "Pride" is sticking the middle finger up to the rest of society.
I like this idea…A LOT!
I used to love seeing the pride flag in my early 20s because it was like our secret, we knew that the business flying it was most likely a gay bar or at least gay friendly. Since its been co-opted by leftists and redesigned to cause divisions in our own community I feel nothing when I see it but aggravation.
When your movement is based around pride, you're already headed in a wrong direction. Last time I checked, it goeth before a fall. Edit: Angela White is invoking tu quoque.
People shouldn’t be proud of who they are? Help me understand why you feel that way. The “pride” in that saying means a completely different thing, just so you know.
@@dancoyle6911 Because pride and ego are intertwined, and any movement based around ego is going to end badly
Is having pride in your country, ancestry, and home also a bad thing?
@@Hans_Petersondeadly sin
It has simply meant not feeling shame. That's all, and it seems obvious.
I’m loving this conversation and its sentiments I’ve had for a long time and could never articulate as beautifully. In reference to BLM protests I just want to say that it has been observed that those engaging in window smashing, car fires and theft were not protestors, but self serving individuals who saw an opportunity to exploit a moment and there were members on “the right” involved as well who had an interest in defaming the movement. Many of the destroyers were black so it was assumed they were connected to BLM. I do believe 99% of BLM was peaceful and legitimate and justified in their anger. As for Packman, I do watch him, but yes he can seek self-righteousness over solutions. Chris, I say this as a “lefty”, I love you! Thank you and Josh, I’m your newest fan. Just subscribed! Brilliant conversation
That was a fantastic conversation. Two bright men moving mostly seamlessly through areas where angels fear to tread. With generosity of spirit and humour and a deep sense of caring about where we are now and where we might be going. Thank you.
Bless him. He thinks he doesn’t sound gay. My god, he’s not that far off of sounding like Tom Allen, a very camp and gay British comedian. It’s not a bad thing, just don’t kid yourself! 😂
Gay is a social construct
I mean, he was a male model
@@QueerdoLoc🤣
He basically sounds Australian. And he sounds intelligent and insightful and courageous. Much like Douglas Murray. If that's what gay sounds like....well...so what! I just don't think what he sounds like is relevant. What he says IS.
Can't dance tho
‘But you are an ally to people who have integrity’ This is a thought I’ve had for the past few months. If people focused on connecting over the values they share, rather than the identity categories they fall into, we’d be in a whole different world. Thank you for this conversation exploring the shades of grey that society seems to have forgotten about. 🙏🏻🙏🏻 Love your work CW 💫 1:22:24
The Australian national broadcaster, the ABC leans so far left they are about to fall over. It is not the place of ' telling the story as it is' like Josh eludes to.
I get the impression he's not actually as opposed to a lot of the things on the left as he claims, he's just gotten burned by it because of the ever tightening purity spiral.
I wish we didn't have to pay for it
ABC needs to allow for discourse and conversation. Even if it caters to the smallest of the issues. It builds credibility for the bigger issues. Right now ABC is going in the wrong direction and will lose its intellectual and educated audience. People who can critically think.
@@da-voodoo-shuffle I have not watched them since 2019 when a feminist panel called for Australia to burn and men to die. And shortly after the bushfires began.
Could not agree more! The ABC is so captured by the current woke ideology that I don’t even bother any more.
America was a horizontal trust. We seem to be fighting against the vertical trust movement. ❤️🇺🇲
I think it's easy to see little value in Pride when you're an out happily married gay man with lots of friends, living in a progressive city in a progressive country. But unfortunately many gay people still aren't in that position. And it's those people who Pride still has some value for. There are still teens out there who are struggling with their sexuality who will get something out of Pride - even something as small as realising they're not alone and that things will improve for them. I'm fortunate enough to be accepted and I don't go to Pride events, so it'd be easy for me to trash them, but I do think they have value outside my own experience.
Who is gonna fix the problems if we aren't suppose to worry about the universities?
Hate to tell you this other people fix problems than university students
@@TheMightyWalk Phew, I am glad the plumbers will solve AI problems, I was worried for a second
@@TheBloch007 Are the plumbers creating any AI problems?
@@random_Person347 No, but there will be a lot of AI problems, that somebody has to deal with
„Is it time for gay pride to go away?“ The short answer is YES! As a gay Man, I‘ve always been sceptical of that „Pride“ thing. You can only be „proud“ of something that you achieved. You can‘t be „proud“ of what you are. If I had to be „proud“ of what I am, I would choose to be „proud“ of being a White Christian Man.
I grew up with GenX Gays who were open about their homosexuality while keeping their Masculinity, Confidence and Faith. Today, my bestie gay friend says that the gay community struggles with finding loving-life partners because the modern gays are bottoms lacking conservative values, confidence and masculinity by which most gays want.
Oxymoron
"Parasitic urban mono-culture" at work it seems.
I’ve always thought gay pride was really important back in the day, in the 90s .. being a kid affected by section 28 etc. but these days equality has been achieved. Now it’s about inclusion and integration, and I find gay pride these days more about commercial company’s advertising, and people behaving in a exclusionary way, sexualisation and kinks in streets and I don’t think it has any place in a modern society. Also, stop all “months” - it’s all so tribal.
I am not gay, but I love this man. So down to earth and wise!
“She’ll be ‘right” is more about being relaxed and not stressing over shit out of your control. Not about following rules or cucking yourself
He might know a lot about drinking coffee with inner city elites but he knows nothing about rural Australians. Where Sky is free to air and the preferred news site.
I am so over the rainbow
They stole the rainbow from everyone
Especially after they added 2 racial colors to it 😒
😂
So you're somewhere?
Ok, Dorothy, calm down 😂
I’m gay and i loathe gay pride. It makes me feel like i stick out like a sore thumb when in reality, all i want is what everyone wants…to live a good life, have enough money so i can live comfortably and spend time with my Partner and family. People who use something about them that they can’t control (race, sexual orientation, sex etc) as a substitute for a personality are pretty hollow people.
💯 Likewise
I'm just going to say this before watching the video. I'm in Spain right now, taking a little hiatus from America, and can say that all the American LBGTQ flamboyant pride bs is a manifestation of a lack of cultural and historical pride. Spanish people love their history, their language, and have a firm appreciation for their culture, noticed by all the Spanish flags hanging up everywhere. Few people walk around trying to cultivate a unique identity - although the city of Madrid slightly suffers from this due to the amount of tourism which dilutes the culture. But try walking through NYC, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles and see how long it takes to find an American flag. People want to live in America, but they don't respect the country. The fact we aren't unified under any set of principles or national language exacerbates the problems, and creates atomized cohorts of individuals looking for an identity their country doesn't provide for them.
I'm surprised on your take on Spain, given the various separatist/linguistic issues there...
Have you been to Catalonia yet - the Spanish flag is essentially banned there and the national anthem booed when played in the region.
@@andrewjacobs4832 in all fairness I have not, I’ve been to Madrid, Toledo, and Segovia. I’m going to Barcelona tomorrow where they speak Catalan. I’ll probably be able to provide a better take overall from that experience.
That's not my take on Spain at all, and I've lived here for 16 years. The left has a huge complex about the country and its image because of the historical role of the Catholic Church, the colonisation of the New World by Cortez and Pizarro, the civil war and the 40-year Franco dictatorship, the role of the royal family etc. There is a very substantial proportion of the population -- almost entirely on the political left -- that is very disdainful of Spain and its history and culture. And that's BEFORE we get to the question of Cataluña and Euskadi.
14:25 I’ve never heard of this bloke. But ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) unbiased? To anyone who is Australian that has watched abc programming like ABC QandA you know it’s absolutely heavily biased towards left leaning ideals
I'm also Australian. I haven't listened, watched or read the ABC for years, so no wonder I don't know him.
He's still got the ABC in his blood when he criticized Sky News. Maybe his laite drinking inner city crowd don't watch, but it's free to air and popular in the regions. And the way our electoral system works country people get as many MPs as city people.
Almost everyone thinks every news outlet or TV channel is biased, though they often disagree on the direction in which it's biased. Which might tell you something. :)
I'm Australian, living in Sydney/Gadigal Land (that looks Woke, yes) and as long as I remember I have been repelled by the 'She'll be right, mate,' ethos. I loathe the idea of mediocrity being the acceptable norm, and it belies the fact, the truth, that there is as great a percentage of people with as high a work ethic, and personal ethic, as any intellectually esteemed nation.
Sometimes it’s important to listen to ppl you don’t agree with. Getting outside a sphere of influence can be valuable.
The title gave me a good laugh, I clicked pretty fast lol Can’t wait to listen 🤝
Chris is able to interview guests that provide an accurate picture of what is going on and when taken with the other guest is the best source of information at the moment.
Don't be fooled by Josh Szeps. He's as woke as they come.
He says a lot of things in this video that told me as much.
Good evening Chris and Josh Integrity, for sure. Fabulous discussion. Sanity brain gym. Super grateful. 💜
I will listen to this, but my first thought upon reading the title of this video is that gay pride already went away years ago. It's been rebranded as "queer" pride, which is by definition anti-gay.
Actually everything is an existential fight. Maybe not in the Australian colony, but we’re fighting for our very way of life against state propaganda in America.
Great podcast! Not sure why I decided to play this one as I wasn't familiar with the guest, but as a fellow Aussie, I'm glad I discovered Josh today! Definitely a level headed thinker, I hope to hear more from him in the future now that he's gone independent!
He is one of the better ones more of a centrist, but he is definitely left leaning. The fact that he couldn't see the Ideological capture at Aunty until it slapped him in the face with a Tuna, demonstrates that.
@@marcfogarty4108 nothing wrong with being a left leaning centrist. We need more left and right leaning people who are not extreme on their side.
@@saskiafinnan4216 I certainly agree I myself used to generally (not religiously)vote green until they went completely woke and obsessed with identity politics. I certainly would identify as anti-woke which the far left and my old greens voting associates makes me far right LOL. But back to Josh, he has gaps we he does appear to be ideologically captured to the far left, to the point of blindness and can be a bit namby pamby on the woke stuff as well. Will call out certain things and lets other things slide by almost like he is trying to play all sides rather than actually have an opinion.
A gun license issued by the Gov't is the equivalent of a Student License issued by a private institution? C'mon Josh.
Josh, supposedly an Australian, can't even properly communicate what "She'll be right, mate" means. Low-brow intellect. It's no wonder to me that he felt at home in mainstream news.
It's long past time for it to go away
It should never have been there in the first place
What you resist ,persists.
Sounds like what happened to him was quite similar to what happened to Maajid Nawaz on LBC, I'm surprised Chris hasn't interviewed Maajid Nawaz yet, he's got such an interesting story.
This episode truly addressed the idea of how tempting it is to present content just to feed the algorithm. Thank you for taking on that issue.
What a great conversation. Your guest wasn't on my radar before but he is bright, reasonable, raised a lot of interesting points and kept up with you. I wasn't initially excited about this episode but it turned out to be excellent.
This is absolutely an amazing interview and I certainly wish I had listened to Josh sooner / after all there is hope in Australia!! I do agree though, Aussies tend to obey the rule rather than question or challenge an inappropriate requirement. We are not allowed to have our voice / I’d hope more people stand up and express opinions.
Looking at the current state of US higher education, government, and institutional power centers, I would argue McCarthyism didn’t go far enough.
Proud to be one those Aussies listening and watching 😊
1:04:14 Josh should talk to Greg Lukianoff to learn about how many more people have been fired recently vs. during McCarthyism.
Aye, an idea I was considering recently. It definitely felt like an idea I should keep to myself 😂
When I read this I thought "lesbian wrath", "transexual envy", "bisexual sloth" and a whole host of LGBT and seven deadly sin combination.
When was it not? There's a reason that pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.
Absolutely. I don't think it's an accident it has that name.
The cost of being in the msm is toeing the line. Never saying or doing anything that hasn’t been approved of by some screaming insane Karen. The cost is honesty and you’re integrity, and if you are not willing to give that up the cost is facing untold numbers of sad people who, due to a lack of anything interesting or meaningful in their own empty lives, have decided to take up someone else’s “story” as their own and they will die on the hill of ignorant rhetoric for it.
A lot to think about in this episode, and good to hear from someone I whom I likely disagree with on most issues who was able to express his ideas without just denegrating into an argument.
Sorry Josh the culture wars are underground, a lot of anger about to boil over.
Tough to listen to anything this guy says after how dangerously wrong he was about all things covid. Hopefully he admits how wrong he was
He was pro Trumpxxine?
Aussie got that wrong from start to finish
@@QueerdoLocwhat does that nonsense even mean?
@@QueerdoLoc GET OFF
@@bott3849That Trump was behind the vaccine that everyone hates.
Josh has countless ridiculously biased hot takes (which he tries to pass off an neutral or indisputable facts) e.g: at 6:18 "Everyone will concede (who is not a *bigot* ) I believe, that there is some tiny minority of people who are born who, from an early age, have a persistent sense that they are in the wrong sex (sic), and the *ONLY WAY* to deal with that is through transition..." He completely ignores the fact that the vast majority of people with gender dysphoria grow out of it. Also his assertion that surgery and hormones (and the resulting infertility) is the _only_ solution is clearly nonsense. You only have to look at the many detransitioners to understand that transition is not the only answer, and that counselling / therapy could help many. Also his utterly ignorant take on McCarthyism is beyond asinine. What's even more hilarious is that he tries to vilify McCarthyism by calling it "Soviet Style". He is like so many leftists who claim to be moderate (while claiming the left was nothing but a force for good e.g. uplifting the poor) and blaming the right (even for things that the left do) such as being the creators of cancel culture. I am so sick and tired of people like this being given a pass with no pushback. It's the same thing in my country whenever there's a muslim terrorist attack, or yet another mass-scale "grooming" gang scandal, the response is always "Yeah whatever, but the REAL danger is what happens if the right-wing start to retaliate".
He clearly put emphasis on the "consistent" self perception from an early age (i.e. before and past the age when social contagion happens), he didnt say that the only way to help all trans people with gender dysphoria is are largely irreversible proceduces, but that a very small set of those people DO exist and that in these rare cases they deserve the required support. There are only so many caveats you can include in a spoken sentence without turning it into gibberish. In pretty much the next breath he went on to say that the present medical and educational institutions facilitate social contagion and do a very poor job of upholding their original ethical responsibilities. I think you are being unduely harsh with him.
Szeps should be forced to watch the Triggernometry discussion on McCarthyism called "Communist Spies in Hollywood" between Konstantin Kisin (who grew up in the Soviet Union) and Michael Malice (born in Ukraine when it was under Soviet communist control). He might actually learn something about what was really going on during the McCarthy era. I doubt it though. Szeps is far too sanctimonious to give consideration to any opinion that would challenge his own entrenched leftist dogma.
Sorry, did you just wrote that he said there's a tiny minority of people who have X and need Y, and then rejected the statement by saying that vast majority of people who have X don't need Y? If a vast majority of X people don't need Y, that leave a tiny minority of X people who does need Y. You just agreed with what he said, but claimed he was wrong...
@@mrmouse4121 trans people are a rather small minority even if you broaden the term to include. Within this group only a small subset has body dysphoria. So yes, not all trans people have gender dysphoria. Within the group that is trans and body dysphoria, there exists a group for whom, as far as medical science can tell us, a sex reassingment surgery is the option promissing the best outcome. So no, gender reassingment surgery and hormone therapy arent universally the best or only help available to trans people with gender dysphoria. His statement about denying the existence of trans people being biggotry is about this small group of individuals, not about whoever is trying to change and extend the meaning of the term trans to include whatever brand of genderqueer activism they support that day. Ofc you could get the impression that whatever they are, a lot of self proclaimed trans people arent really "trans", or, if youve never met an actual trans person and, given the huge amount of politicized bullshit, shoddy activist science and manipulative language, you arent big on accepting things beyond the scope of what you can verify by your own personal experience. That is perfectly reasonable. But perfectly reasonable doesnt mean every possible conclusion drawn from thereon out it is correct.
He brought up a good point. When CAN you have a say on an issue? When is it appropriate to share your concerns and judgments on topics?
An enlightening and fun convo, as was to be expected from these two class act intellectuals. Is Chris trying to throw Josh off a little tho, wearing these tight short shorts? 😀
And doing all that posing in front of him…🤔
@@Madame_Bubusik Hahaha, exactly
Oh yes. We’ve been waiting for awhile. Alas, Huberman is married.
I was shocked to see that this interview was only 3 weeks ago. Having 2 gay men talk about trans right being bigoted in 2024 well totally ignoring the EROSION of women's rights is insanity. Didn't hear them mention it once but I just simply couldn't watch It anymore than 40 minutes. Ugh.
I think he misses the point when he says that there is a "minority" of gay people that may be "susceptible" to the idea of transitioning. Its probably a larger minority than he thinks. But also the main issue is that its not so much the individual gay people that are susceptible, but the fact that that their parents and many others would prefer them to cosmetically change themselves (and take hormones, etc) to appear as a the opposite sex, than to be gay. This also seems to be primarily an issue when it comes to gay boys, rather than lesbians.
As an Australian I need to say you are completely mistaken. Parents go to great lengths to protect their kids from this, private Christian schools, whatever they can do. Gay or lesbian doesn't faze them, but this does.
Yes 100% pride needs to stop. they have gone way too far. Plus the fact it is discriminatory. IN several ways.
Or you could just ignore it. Who is making you participate in any of it?
@nickbarcheck1019 You could've ignored his comment. Who made you participate?
@@ag3nt_green Huh??
@@nickbarcheck1019 When you have to deal with rainbow flags at work, rainbow flags on government buildings, rainbow crosswalks, pride flags in schools and an entire month of Pride, its getting harder to "ignore". Tell why - why is a Pride festival in any Western country in 2024 necessary when that war has been won, and in general people care about what you are about as much as what you had for breakfast that morning? If you think that IT IS still necessary, surely then you would agree that perhaps some day (quite soon) there WILL be a day went its outlived its usefulness, and no longer is necessary? Its either one or the other. Which one is it? Remember - Pride was set up because gay people couldn't be open about who they were, this was an outlet for them to be "proud" of who they were, it absolutely was necessary once upon a time. But that time has passed in my opinion. It no longer serves any purpose as far as I can see.
@@ag3nt_green Umm. He chose to participate in the conversation. He didn't say it "needs to stop".
"Hang on - I didn't give up my right to have a rational point of view just because I was born with balls" - that's a keeper. Another thing I just thought of that could work if you're being accused of disagreeing because your male "Wait.... you think I'm pretending to disagree with you to be catty?... I'm not sure you've got a great understanding of men."
He totally lost me on McCarthyism because it was not embraced by most conservatives at the time. McCarthy was more or less of a lone wolf and spoke for a small percenty of the population.
Agreed. I've felt way this about Pride for the past decade. It's just about debauchery at this point. I love that the stigma that existed when I grew up in the 90s has gone away mostly. At this point, most people know someone gay or bi. We won! I thought we wanted to just be accepted and exist in peace? This orgy is concerning since alcohol and drug abuse is very rampant in the lgbt community. This is something Gladd and these organizations need to focus on.
"Everyone who is not a bigot can acknowledge that there are [paraphrased] some real trans people" As someone who transitioned and detransitioned, is married to someone who transitioned and detransitioned, and met many people both transitioned and detransitioned... no. There are no people who have 'persistently had a sense they were a different sex', it's all retrofitted and cherry-picked. People who choose to transition all have some other mental health issue that's the cause, being trans is not an in-born identity, nor is it unchanging, or definitive, or in any way measurable. The people who have the *best* outcome with regards to transition are those who simply do it because they have a fetish. Those who do it because of mental anguish have no improvement whatsoever, and 7-10 years after transition is the highest rate of suicide. I care deeply for those who transition. I was one of them. They are NOT helped by transition. It's all placebo.
Now that’s a title that will turn heads. I can’t wait to see all the comments😂
Love your legs Chris. As a gay man, I would've found them distracting. LOL
I’m based AF, watch a majority of centre-right KZhead channels, and he’s right about the unnecessary outrage factory that’s been created around unimportant issues.
All outrage is necessary. Action is the missing element
@@TheMightyWalk Outrage is necessary for things like global warming, collapsing healthcare and social security systems, the impact of AI on middle class jobs etc. Things that will directly affect billions of people. We do not need outrage for matters that affect tiny percentages of the population -- eg trans.
Given the rise of the far right as a credible power bloc across the west and the resulting new movements we see focused on scapegoating trans (in particular) and otherwise LGB people through the imposition of laws that equate LGBT people as predators, the answer to the question of whether “Pride” as a sentiment among LGBT people and the festivals that happen based on that theme should go away is a resounding no. There is an undeniable rise of a sentiment that would silence the LGBT community and ask us to step aside and accept a level of socially acceptable marginalization that is inherent in the position that “Pride” should go away. No. Given the rise of disdain and hate across the world towards sexual minorities, Pride is more important than it has been in decades. We have not reached the level of social acceptance necessary to begin to have this conversation. As long as there are movements to ban queer literature in schools, as long as openly LGBT people are being treated like predators, as long as hateful movements like American evangelism serve as primary animators of far right ideology, Pride will continue to be necessary. Anyone who thinks we’re going away is woefully mistaken. We’ve always existed. We continue to exist. We will never stop existing in every community/population around the globe. We won’t be silent and we won’t allow ourselves to be socially, politically, morally or legally marginalized again. I ask all liberals and conservatives with an open mind to remember how easily the tide of social progress is turned and how dark were the days during which being hateful or dismissive of LGBT people was widely acceptable. We continue to need straight, CIS people’s support and we need to remain unified as an LGBT community to help each other in the midst of a rise of hurtful rhetoric, behavior and lawmaking.
Brilliant discussion, thanks guys
On covid, i did what they originally told us we needed to do: i got my first dose and i got my booster. Because that's what the makers said we had to do. When they started going on about second boosters and even before that rolled out they started saying about needing third and fourth boosters i decided that was a step too far. Plus i actually got covid after getting the first vaccine and before getting the booster. And i wasn't allowed to get the booster for 12 weeks after having caught it, so where most were getting their first booster in july/august i didn't get mine until september/october. So when they started going on about boosters i thought i was already a dose ahead of most people having had the actual thing.
I worked the entire p@ndemic as a Fire-EMS worker in the United States. After waiting a bit to see if the rushed jab started to have any widespread reported b@d side effects, I had the initial two jab series. As time went on I started noticing that what I was seeing “on the street” as a Fire-EMS worker wasn’t quite jiving with the the political/media talking heads on tv….and that the jab wasn’t really “stopping the spread” nor was it “keeping you from getting” it, nor “keeping you out of the hospital”…..I haven’t had any more jabs. During our patient care interviews and transports to the hospital we asked every patient their jabstatus….and people were still getting it, after being told by the government/media/pharma that it would keep you from getting it. I’m definitely not a “antiV@x” person, I’m prior military and have had far more than the average person, but the lies about efficacy, and safety have definitely shaken my faith in the powers that be
I'm Australian and I conscientiously objected to it due to what I believed about the roll out and the Geneva Convention. I am not young and I have two comorbidities. I have had covid twice and both times all I experienced was a headache. And yet compliant people, much healthier than I am got very sick. I have two nieces with myocarditis and I know a 12 yo boy with it as well. He took it because he was afraid he wouldn't be allowed to play sport, and now he can't. I know three women who have had stillborn babies, despite in the whole of my prior life only knowing one woman who suffered this.
Huge numbers of people have no sexual partners. No-one waves flags for them. Or campaigns for their rights.
That end speech from Josh is amazing. Had to listen to it twice.
I loved discovering Josh. Will definitely be binging his content. I disagree however on the JP point about the acknowledgement of the land tribe. Here in Canada, we have to self flagellate all the time with this and we became blazé with it I think.
I think that true flattening of the queer issue is to get more men to admit to their bisexuality. Traffic on porn sites point to well over 50%
Yes Chris. In fact it’s long overdue.
The Pride Parades aren't what they used to be. Not a place now for kids or people actually serious about human rights.