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0:00 intro
0:35 The feminist movement is racist
6:31 You can support women and not identify with the feminist movement
12:54 White women benefit the most from the feminist movement
18:57 Anti-abortion laws have affected women of color more than white woman
19:05 The patriarchy has been beneficial to society
31:31 Anti-feminism hinders progress towards achieving gender equality
44:52 I feel targeted by some feminists
An unreleased prompt + an extended cut of Middle Ground: White Feminists vs POC Anti-Feminists is up on our Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/jubileemedia
Why didn't you ask the "anti-feminists" how they identify? It seems like a really bad choice of word framing. No?
Just FYI- this comment has feminists spelled correctly (s at the end for plural), but the title of the video makes it seem like it’s one singular feminist on each side. Add the “s” to make it plural, please! :)
why are only asians working for your company do you hate white people?
Communism and Mahometanism are both destructive.
Yall will come up with any category to exclude RADICAL FEMINISTS
i feel like you guys could’ve worded the “anti feminist” part better because they’re clearly not opposed to feminism they just don’t identify with it 😭😭
these vids are clickbaity and shady. in a socialist Vs capitalist debate they censored a socialist dudes cross for no reason whatsoever
@@caiusNSXstill true but clicks are important
Also they were talking about the movement not feminism in general.
The guy stated that already
@@caiusNSXthey did what? 😭
Jubilee needs to let these videos come out unfiltered and unedited. We don’t mind sitting here for 4 hours
I wanna see them too but that would involve A LOT of scheduling.
Why they cut the video?
@@jasmineward7897 for views and the participants that don't fit into jubilees narrative will get less screen time.
@@Jaykmane that's wicked
Sitting? I listen to these at work
"He ran a sex trafficking ring" The faces 😂
timestamp?
He is ACCUSED of it, not as a matter of fact.
nah, he did it @@khazms
@@khazmshe ADMITTED to it
@@RmonK2000 then why isnt he convicted if he did it?
now we need woc feminists vs woc anti-feminist !!
Would love to see this! Definitely feel the middle ground that they mention can be unpacked a lot with the inclusion of WOC feminists
Or the far more common woc feminist and yt anti-feminist.
Remember Black men were the most common demographic to vote for abortion rights in Ohio while most white men voted against it.
Yt ppl are the problem, not PoC
@@jasonhaven7170 yeah that would also be an interesting video in addition thanks for the ohio fact, i didn’t know that (i’m british)
Saying Andrew Tate probably respects women more because he converted to Islam is a breathtaking level of short sightedness. I just stared at the video speechless on that claim.
Trust me I’m a Muslim women and many of us do not forgive him at all
@c9kw1er8f The biggest names in the Muslim youtube community respects Tate, try again loser.
Chickens for kFC at this point 💀
Beta!
@@Random-sk6hm Whenever someone doesn't agree with feminism :
So because andrew tate converted to islam he now respects women? What a joke.
He converted to the religioun famous for child brides, denying women education, and basic rights lmao, perfect for him
Exactly, he converted because Islam uses its religion as an excuse and tool for women's oppression. Very easy.
😭😂
Exactly !!! It’s the opposite actually.
😂😂 Now he’s gonna disrespect them more since he got an excuse
I think if the moderator was female it was easier for her to break the interruptions. I feel like he was scared to break it up.
Maybe, buy given half the debaters dislike men, having hik there made him clearly nervous
@@Sims4T thats not true. Feeling itimidated by men happens that does not mean feminsts dislike men. Feminsts dislike toxic men or men that abuse their power. I think we can All agree on that.
@@faysmit4799 And we also hate toxic women
too "feminine" bashed to much male😝😝😝😜😜
Would they able to have someone impartial tough? I don't remember which episode it was but they had someone that was supposed to be neutral but it wasn't at all.
This wasn’t a productive discussion 🤝
69 likes 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I agree it was all fluff. Opinions with no valid points. & when white girl red top said “anyone who identifies as a woman” pretty sure she’s a male. 😅
@@rachaelginders369 You mean brown top?
yeah there is pretty much no middle ground 😭😭people are just sticking their shoes in the dirt and not budging
@@rachaelginders369 She's not a male.
not her bringing up and defending Andrew Tate JUST because he's muslim now and willfully ignoring the rest of what he has said/done bc she felt being muslim would make him more pro women 💀💀😭😭
I don't like Tate but he has taken back and regrets alot of the things he said and done. So I do belive he deserves some credit for that.
@@altaccount9716Why do his fans always feel the need to lie about being fans? Everyone takes back stuff when they’re facing imprisonment.
She's a muslim woman... not known for their 🧠
and in the same breath say that she didn't watch his videos like huh????
@@altaccount9716He can have credit for that. It will never cancel out the fact that hesy said other things, and only taken them back bc of his views though
Blaming feminism for misogyny is a crazy take
Feminism=misogyny
I mean those red pill ppl do it for that reason
It is and its is confusing😅
Crazy considering misogyny for centuries is the reason for feminism. Of course they don't want to hold men accountable and would rather gaslight women for the way they rightfully feel.
@@ifrahsuge7661 Misogyny is the reason for feminism. Feminism will always be needed.
saying women are getting harrassed at night because its in their biology is such a crazy take.😃
I mean to an extent yea bc I mean male bodies are stronger than female bodies, so there could be like a power dynamic. But also it’s not completely bc of that. It’s more of a pyscho-social thing I feel.
@@tarathoughts13 yeah but the girl was trying to defend the fact that women get harassed at night like girl bffr 💀
I was just going off about this because wth..... Like, how could she say that
why don't you send your children at night? You think biology does not play a role?
I mean yeah that’s true
The muslim girl saying "you cannot judge people for what they have done in the past" is so funny. Make this a defense in court of law lmao
On a Islamic standpoint when you revert to Islam all of your sins from the past are forgiven but I understand your reasoning in the legal perspective
That’s coming from a theological standpoint. Legally someone would still be on the hook if they’ve committed crimes.
They did and they could not which is why he's not in jail and now they switched to going after him for another unrelated reason now
She's talking about theology. :/
@@mahdijafri4079 so idf soldiers cannot be judged for their actions? Noted...
i hate how some muslims put andrew tate on this pedestal and but him as a role model. as muslims we shouldnt be looking at him for anything hes not a role model to us
QUEEN SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PPL AT THE BACK
A thousand percentttt
Yeah . Its so weird that they support him. As a muslim woman im disgusted
She was not supporting him@@nawal6842
@@nawal6842 where do they support him
homegirl saying she forgives andrew tate just because he converted to islam took me outttt lmao
You have to admit Andrew Tate changed a LOT! Before he used to be a brat and always degrading women and nowadays, he doesn't do that anymore, he praises women and he has a daughter that he loves so much, almost like he completely transformed after coming out of prison!
@@nami20622my guy he no just no a pedophile turn Christian is still a pedophile not calling Andrew that just giving an example.
Clearly you either haven't watched the video or you're a moron.
@@nami20622he want just involved in talking bad about women but also TRAFFICKING WOMEN. Some things can't be forgived and forgotten. Should we all let him go free and stop going after him now that he's a Muslim?
@@ellasabras1699 Why was he released from prison after false allegations if he really trafficked women! Have you not heard of false convictions before?
You can’t be pro-woman and try to push YOUR idea of how a woman should live. It’s doing the same thing you are critiquing.
As a woman of color, I am surprised how often women of color do not hold men accountable.
they dont wanna bring their men down or some shiiiid.
Because they're solid women, it's not about people of color it's about western vs nonwestern women
@@BigSplenda1885 no they're straight up cowards for that lmao
What does your color have to do with anything
@@BigSplenda1885”solid” women💀🤡
So glad they added the moderator. Long overdue.
absolutely!
He didn't do a great job. They kept talking over each other. That's a wack debate if I can't hear the other side
Thank you so much 🤝
This guy makes rage bait content online so we really need someone better for this. And it really should've been a woman.
I really wonder how many times people are going to keep pointing this out... (no hate to the commenter, I'm just speaking in general)
The muslim girl doesn't want to "assume stuff" about Andrew Tate being arrested for sex trafficking, but has no problem making assumptions about Trans women being dangerous.
true lol
Exactly lol
assume? They are litrealy cases of them being dangerous. they don't belong there.
@@johannesg8959 There's a gajillion more cases of men than any trans person world wide. It's contradictory to not want men to be called out in society for the things they regularly do but pin danger all on T people that are a minority in the world.
@@johannesg8959where? Trans people are not a monolith but Andrew rate is a person
Im tired of people relating being feminine as being submissive
femininity is inherently submissive
So realllll
Saying black women benefited from the patriarchy is Crazyyyy
In some way they did. Men created and led countries, it was men who fought in the Civil War.
@@JXekil_Iyes and the same patriarchal system made them The Help to YT families for decades antebellum…patriarchy within the Black community also negatively affected BW especially those is the Black Panther party.
@@sianilee4313 black men don't have much power in this country so idk what you are talking about america does not work in favor of black men only 23 percent of the black population is married so most of our community is single or non married people our story is not the same for white women at all !
All women benefited from the patriarchy up until only like 100 years ago.
@@luismelchor3817cool story,incel😂
We need a debate between Scientologists and Former Scientologists.
yes
yes please
If Xenu even lets them out 😭😭😭
That was be scary lmao
Impossible
Blaming feminism for misogyny is the same as "I hit her because she makes me angry with her behavior and how she speaks." What a ride this debate was.
Exactly!!!!
SPOT ON
its circular reasoning 101 lmao
Literally no one said that. But to a feminist I bet this is how this debated sounds 🤣
No one said that.
Every feminist issue literally affects that. The bathroom issue. It's not a Trans debate, it's a "women aren't safe in society" debate.
who in society is more safe than women ? And why should the issue of safety be gendered?
@emilianosintarias7337 sir. You should have took the hint, when you saw no replies and almost 300 likes.
@@user-cx2kr1xm4g well then Sir, i am sure everyone at a 1907 Alabama phrenology conference stood and clapped too - that's the crowd it attracts and that was its era. I would heckle such as well. Got an answer to my question?
@@emilianosintarias7337 it’s astounding how people lack basic intelligence these days, wow. If you need your hand held that much, I’ll give you a little hint - the physicality of women in comparison to the physicality of men might have something to do with it, genius.
@@Natttttttttt All you have to do is say what "it" is genius. The statistical majority of victims of violence are men. The majority of men, over 99 percent, are not violent. (about .02% in the US are violent, going by arrest records). Bystanders are more likely to intervene in emergencies or attacks to protect women, and criminal cases with female victims get more follow up and media coverage and are more often solved, with harsher punishments. Violent criminals target men more, and this is one of the reasons. Society exists. It is not just a bunch of mammals of varying physical size. Many violent criminals are not big. Women beat and delete children at a higher rate, despite on average being smaller than men. Of course, by your standard, men of east Asian descent deserve the same consideration as women of west African descent, or, maybe public safety should just go by weight classes?
that lady in the blue saying “the ONLY thing we can do is teach children how to tell you when it happens” in response for how to protect children from molesters and rapists is wild… 43:39
I understand why she said that it’s the only thing. But she has to also understand there are ways to protect children rather than just teach them like they’re in another class just for that we just need to come up with a system better than that.
That's exactly what I was thinking because when a child has to "tell you when it happens" it means the damage has already been done, the child has already been scarred, so it's not a way of prevention but just a way to resolve it. But it's always better to prevent than try to cure / resolve.
Basically saying "yeah, it's gonna happen eventually and we will have to pick up the pisses to clean the mess."
@@kahp1072 i think you might actually have meant, ¨pick up the *pieces¨....*
She’s a councillor for rape victims so her job is literally to respond to victims after they’ve been assaulted. I guess she thinks that way because it’s her job.
it felt like the feminists were walking on egg shells around the poc anti feminists trying to please them and not offend them lol
I agree, they could’ve been more firm without offending them
They created the culture of egg shells
Typical.
So true, they made me feel like that too. Like it's so disgusting!!!
They were holding their tongue so much, they would not be this civil if it was a white christian stay at home mum from tennessee
having a male moderator is so ironic 😂😂😂
😂😂
EXAAAAAACTLY.
His bias showed.
Why?
Reminds me of that Beavis and Butthead episode on "male privilege". Where a dude acts so progressive, yet interrupts the women when trying to explain this to the two leads....
I noticed how most definition of the patriarchy was "my definition is" not the actual definition.
what is the actual definition. there are 2 that i know, 1 anthroplogical and one feminist
patriarchy is necessary in society
Parents are actually harder on their daughters. If you think about how women are literally trained into being the perfect wives and mothers while the sons are cut so much slack just because they’re males…
It varies really.
That's your life many people especially the Asian and middle east both had their own role and they're quite harsh especially for men not only mentally, physically the same goes for women even tho the issue is different yet the concept is there
Yes because women are more emotional and get carried away more than men, they are also more vulnerable to the outside world so they need to be disciplined more. Men can be like that too due to bad parenting/childhood trauma, but naturally men are more rational
@@soulofexistenceWere talking about boys here, not MEN. Boys can be as emotional as girls, do you know how many times i’ve seen a boy get angry over a game? That excuse just justifies the unfair treatment of a daughter and a son
@@soulofexistence those are stereotypes. It's what was forced upon women and men for many generations. There is no evidence biologically to back that women are more emotional. Just say men suck at taking care of their mental health
The white women were being too nice to these anti feminists... cause this hurt to watch.
I'd have to agree. While I appreciate their respective approach, I think they could have pushed back a little harder.
@@kaylabarrett6736 lol yes, they definitely should have pushed back.
they were probably afraid to get called racist or islamaphobic
@Nadia-bt5ls yeah, they were playing too safe, I fear
Nah I agree with the „anti-feminists“ yall Are crazyyyyy
The incel to Islam pipeline really needs to be talked about more honestly
THANK YOU!!!!!!! She started wearing a hijab two years ago…… that tells you all!
They not ready for the smoke!
Ehmm.. If u mean tate I think you're a million miles closer to being involuntarily celibate than him 😂
@@Nithinithinithcan you expand in this point more I’m genuinely intrigued
@@Nicolelove90because her and tate are similar in that they're using conservative Islam as an argument to be sexist and get away with crap
The feminist I know as well as myself NEVER STOPED speaking about the women and Iran and Gaza.
Rihan does not realize that the happy Saudi and UAE anti- feminist women she mentioned actually have nannies aka “someone else raising your own children” lmao
As someone from the gulf countries I can conform
This is a modern phenomena - that stemmed due to woman's introduction into the workforce which of course partly was influenced by The Feminist Movement and adjusting to the new norm of our modern economy.
Briefly, this is a surviving problem more than it is an ideology problem. Since, both culture and religion have an established view on the dynamics between genders that align well with tradition and the predisposition of both genders.
@@narutachi_ plus men refusal to participate in looking after their own kids. Some would say “but supporting them financially is more than enough support from fathers” yet we seem to forgot that so many mothers are also doing the financial support on top of the emotional support/education/feeding and housework
@@fatmaahmed832 Firstly, the conflation between what people do vs what people believe they should do is not appreciated. From my understanding of the primary source material of islam, there is a distinction between the duties of both men and woman - however, in the issue of raising the kids there is no doubt that both the mother and father have a responsibility of raising the children. Secondly, adding to your point there is a problem in the whole world were the duties and responsibilities may not be fairly distributed between the couples - however your argument fails to present the evidence that it is a strictly muslim problem (Where is your primary source material or statistics to support the claim that this is a specifically muslim problem?)
It's disappointing how un-nuanced this conversation was, from both sides. Some of these arguments can be shattered by a teenager!
Mostly the pro femenists side though. Especially the red head (Literally). She kept yaping making uneducated arguments that can be disproven by simple statistics. Like women being attacked? Men are statistically more likely to be assaulted lmao
agreed.
seriously. I couldn't finish the video it was so bad
The anti feminist side didn't make sense at all.
@@orangeslice43seriously felt like I lost braincells just listening to them 😒
Yall should do "online feminists" and content creators vs feminists actually involved in running things like women shelters or hold a significant position in a feminist organization.
I love messy topics like that
YES!!!!!!
That’ll be too difficult to define. Many of the former also do the latter, and vice versa.
Feminists actually in the field work online as well. That wouldn't be easy.
That would be very hard to differentiate.. most cross over, and the ones who don’t probably wouldn’t come on here knowing that they’re performative.
These discussions never lead to a "middle ground" Jubilee seems to find a hot button topic, bring on the most awkward and unhinged people and let the cameras roll. All for clicks and views.
Especially political topics.
What happened in Iran was not what she described. This woman is the worst representation
Pro lifers never seem to understand what pro CHOICE means… it’s not pro abortion it’s pro CHOICE meaning allowing ALL WOMEN to make the choice that works for them whether that means keeping a pregnancy or not and anything in between.
Exactly! That part drove me wild
No it doesn't. most feminists want no regulation regards to abortion. it needs regulation like everything does in society.
@@zerotoanime3953???
I think they do understand that, they are still saying that it shouldn’t be a choice and a life is a life that shouldn’t be taken no matter what.
Many Pro abortioners are legitimately pro abortion, some of them have literally purposefully gotten pregnant just to abort it
22:47 They lost me here. There are almost 8 billion people here. You can not expect all females to be housewives and all men be the breadwinner and masculine. Go find you YOUR person. Stop tryna change everyone. Go find that 1 in 8 billion and leave people alone!!!!! Omg Im so bothered😭please...can we please stop perpetuating this idea that everything is black and white.
ikr i hate when they say these gender roles are inherently in us
You're such a surface level thinker which is why the entire western world is suffering the same problems. Technology has allowed you to believe you don't need men, and men don't need women which causes this masse psychosis where women want to become independent of men. Women's worldview has changed thanks to technology while men's worldview remains similar to men of generations past.
This is unfortunately the age of lost nuance. It's a weird paradox of our time where everything is possible and also not at the same time ? I support you in your statement. My wife and I have complete 'gender role' reversal. I have been taking care of the kids and been cooking her meals for over 13 years straight now. She has a career and brings in the money. Why would that be a problem? The only problem I see is that society doesn't value me and my work on the same level as someone who works. And you can have the proof in the fact that my pension is gonna be lower to non existant even though I took care of all these humans and provided for them in other ways than monetary.
Honestly!! Like there are so many “traditional/masculine” out there. Why are we complaining about the few who choose not to define themselves in that way. Clearly they aren’t for you and thats ok. The fact they were trying to frame the departure of gender roles as what is throwing our society in choas… its just laughable. We’re in chaos specifically bc people don’t know how to mind their business and let others be. This is a prime example. While some of these women are sitting here trying to rigidly police how men and women should interact with one another, others are fighting a bigger battle to let all women (and men) be who they choose. Whether that fits the societal norm or not. The anti feminist side just came across as really self serving and not mindful of how these gender norms have contributed to sterotypes that are commonly used to label and dismiss people who don’t fit them.
Yesss! So many of the “anti-feminist” arguments were binary like two truths can’t exist at once
I always find these debates interesting when they bring up historic gender roles. Modern gender roles are just that - modern. The excuse of “it’s been like this forever” signals such a lack of understanding of gender history.
It has a reason why it was like this forever. They don’t mean like women have to stay at home and has to make the husband happy no. She can work be a CEO whatever she wants. It’s about the behavior and the respect between male and female and it’s not there anymore.
@@jungedeinernst.3079 What "behaviour" and "respect between male and female" needs to be shown if men and women are free to pursue what they want as you said? Your side is the one insisting one limit themselves due to their gender...
@@Ammar-pv8wrwith respect and behavior i mean that they have to talk it out both of them in a respectful way its not limiting at all. If u dont think this is important thats crazy.
@@jungedeinernst.3079 I think it's important for sure. But with strict gender roles, the problem was that there was no real discussion about who should do what because it was just assumed what men and women should do. So there was no respect back then. Women struggled to be CEOs in the past because of this reason...
@@Ammar-pv8wr Gender roles are a result of biology and evolution and they are necessary. Society isn’t working with men and women competing against each other instead of them complimenting each other. It’s clear to see in relationship and child birth statistics
As a muslim woman, the Muslim girl was sooo disappointing. Holding up Saudi and Andrew Tate? Girl bye
I’m a Muslim women too and bro she didn’t say anything wrong
As a Muslim woman I didn't find her wrong
She wasn't disappointing, she said something YOU did not agree with😭...
You just don't know anything about Andrew tate ... And you assume you know that it is your problem not her
@@user-ek9lw7nm5wexactlyyyyy
I'd like to see a debate between liberal and radical feminists.
Yess
!!!
Yes but not “radical feminists” as in transphobic conservative women… actual radfems that align with radfem theory
Yes! No platforms for TERFS@ashley-wk9ry
@@ashley-wk9ry who often are not ”transphobic” but anti-misogyny
patriarchy isn't just a western problem, what? this conversation was mind numbing
😂😂it was indeed
It’s true that it isn’t but it also depends on culture
agreed. from both sides tbh. so american-minded even when talking about the middle east
Actually it kind of is. Women in other countries aren’t shouting patriarchy as much as western women. It’s become a buzzword for white feminist yet can’t explain where they feel oppressed in society. The definition of patriarchy from the dictionary is “a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.” Where are women excluded from holding power? We have a vice president who is a woman….
I had to let out a small scream when she said men don't have to fear being attacked in public and women are way more likely to deal with being attacked. Both are pure misandry and untrue, men are far more likely to be victims of violent attacks and we definitely have to fear that and we do. There's a reason a lot of guys want to take martial arts, own a gun, knife etc. It's very obvious a lot of feminists never have their ideas challenged and have zero men in their life.
The lady saying patriarchy came in with colonialism is incorrect. Most societies were and are patriarchial predating colonialism.
She just wanted some woke points
Colonialism definitely cemented patriarchy in the US. And also other places of the world
@aminakhan4723 patriarchy was cemented in others places long before colonialism got there.
@@aminakhan4723 What matriarchal society was imposed upon by colonials?
@@aminakhan4723 What?!? Which countries did colonialism cause patriarchy?
as someone who spent her life with people labeling me when I didn't want it . society needs to quit obsessing over labels and just live
Labels are so nasty. Just a straight vibe killer
agreed
in what context?
Young people are obsessed with it. This is why identitarianism is so close to white supremecy as they are obsessed with categorizing people.
I hope you have that same energy towards all the new gender labels that people are making up today. Otherwise, you're a giant hypocrite.
as a Muslim myself, the Muslim girl really gave me secondhand embarrassment with the Tate comment 🤦🏼♀
Or how about all the happy women in Saudia Arabia?
The secondhand embarrassment started with her forced model face expression, and went up exponentially with the”middle eastern women know their place, everyone is happy”
She was my least favorite of the cast. I respect any one of any religion but a lot of her talking points came across as very self centered and complicit. Clearly she had her own ideas of what a women should be which is fine, but she wasn’t really open to people who don’t want to live in those gender roles and how current anti-feminist vernacular effects that individual freedom.
@@shaktra1563this is what majority of Muslims believe btw. (Take it from me, I'm from the Middle East and speak Arabic and know what they say) A lot of traditional conservative beliefs that are anti-pc currently. Which is fine but what's annoying is that leftists will side with them but hate Christians for believing the same thing...
@@wekurtz72women in saudi are happy, at least a lot happier than feminists in the west.
33:35 "Andrew Tate learned respect for women when he converted to islam" Im pretty sure he converted to Islam for the exact opposite reason lol
I don't understand how women can follow a religion that spits in their face😂... Willingly😅
Prolly because of terrible interpretation
Exactly, he converted because Islam uses its religion as an excuse for women's oppression. Very easy.
Exactly, he converted because Islam uses its religion as an excuse and tool for women's oppression. Very easy.
Not really if you go back and watch how he talked about women before conversion and after you would notice a positive difference
“I’m here in this country because of men” if your talking about slavery babe then yes 100% 😂
So much to unpack there!
Yoooo 😂
Well, not all of us hate being American and white colonialism is literally why FBA are here and FBA persistence is why every other non white nationality was able to benefit from this country.
cringe, seeing a black person and thinking of slavery, shes from west africa
exactly 27:00 the anti-feminist said they feel excluded because the feminist movement doesn't encourage them to do what they want which is the conserative role but when she says she wants to go work the anti feminist are not letting her be what she wants to do as awoman
@@UncleTom854-bm5lv i time marked it
Imagine jumping to defend Andrew tate then saying you haven't really watched his videos 🤦🏽♂️
In all fairness, a lot of people who hate him also have not watched his videos. Some people need to realize that a TikTok clip isn't research.
a simple clip of him saying disgusting baffling stuff about women is enough. what type of "research" do you need? lmfaoo@@natethestrange_yt6094
@@natethestrange_yt6094 pretty sure they did or else he wouldn't be hated🤦♀️
@@RmonK2000 Nope. Leftists hate whoever they're told to hate.
In her defence she did say she only started watching him after his conversion to Islam, as a Muslim I agree that some of his videos before were vile but you can tell she hasn't seen those or watch him THAT much and she's just going off the newer vidoes where he takes back a majority of the women hating things he said in the past - she didnt know so she shouldnt have even entertained the topic but idk why tf u lot are coming at her in the comments... its not that deep, in the end u could tell she regretted it
This conversation became so scuffed - the fact they had their own individual definitions of patriarchy/feminism etc etc means they are not on the same page at all.
Which is why people need to just stop mentioning it. It barely serves a purpose in any conversation these days.
Yeah I think they should have maybe had a different moderator and laid out some basic ground rules beforehand.
@@ajh.4131 no no no but what will they talk about if they can't mention "mUH PAtRIarcHy"
That’s why it is SO important to lay out the information and definition of words before a discussion
100% agree with all the other chats in here. There needs to be a training on dialogue and how to engage and have some sort of ground rules on basic definitions.
As a Muslim, I am ashamed of the way Rihan or whatever her name is talk in about Tate
I’ve heard a white feminist say “educated women don’t want big families” about African women having big families. Isn’t having a big family a personal choice? I feel like white feminist see things from their country’s point of view instead of a culturally relative point of view
100% agree
Educated women don't want big families typically because they have a career and they can't have 7 babies without their career being effected. No, it's not just a personal choice. There are many factors like the state of the economy, environment, upbringing, religion etc.
@@Night-Shade. why not? They sure can have a career with 7 babies
@@larozyo1 That's unrealistic unless you're rich af and have baby sitters raising your kids
@@Night-Shade. how is that unrealistic?
Not her saying that the patriarchy gave black women citizenship. Under the patriarchy black women weren’t even considered women they were barely considered female until black people got rights.
What we're they considered? Aliens?
@@censaimwhat patriarchal values and systems specifically allowed for the citizenship of black women
@@Bossmybadprobable masculine because why not.
Yeah, if our ancestors didn’t fight for our rights, we wouldn’t have been “given” anything
Black women got voting rights when white women did
Y'all gotta do Furries vs Anti-Furries that would be hilarious.
Fr
Y mean weir people vs normal people 😂😂😂
Full costumes and gear mandatory.
Are there like….actual anti furries!? That’s insane if so. Honestly I don’t “get” furries but I have a ton of weird hobbies that other people don’t “get” so who am I to judge!? Also every furry I’ve ever met irl has been super cool and chill.
sign me up for being Anti Furries.
Rahan touting the Persian Gulf countries as a place where women are universally happier is laughable. Until very recently, women in Saudi Arabia weren't even allowed to drive (a bunch were even imprisoned and subjected to inhumane conditions for daring to do so), they weren't even allowed to travel even within the country without a male guardian or without a male guardian's consent. Freedom of speech and the press are heavily censored in those countries and dissent against the rulers is brutally suppressed. And the state of welfare and protections there for the migrant workers from overseas, especially female workers, the workers whose labour basically make their societies run, is abysmal. That side talks a big game about focusing more on so-called larger issues faced by other people around the world that they deem to be more oppressed, but then fails to acknowledge huge groups of said oppressed people that they think we're all supposed to care about and also fails to even do a basic examination of how that rosy, apparently happy lifestyle that Gulf women supposedly live is built upon exploitation of both natural resources and of poor people.
Studies show women are happier in Middle Eastern countries as well as other countries in Asia and Africa than western countries. But ofc it depends on which country e.g. United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc are proven to have more happier women. Facts dont lie
As a gulf woman yes we are happier, and the more I travel the more I love my country more, so happy that I am no western or born in some “ free “ country, next time don’t speak in behalf of us and based on your mess up social media
@@AsJa-qy7wd Facts. People are depressed in western countries so they just wanna project their depression on other countries
Oh girl i live in the middle east and giirl i a more happier than i was living in the west !
i think it's so important to note that there are several types of feminism.
Yeah exactly! All of these women look liberal feminists Not a single one was a radical feminist Radical feminists aren't braindead enough to say that men can be women and thus are allowed to step on women's rights
The slavery was bad but at least I'm a US citizen take was... wow. What is wrong with her?
Smh I had the same reaction
Yeah... she wylin
I was looking for this comment because that remark was soooo absurd 😳😱🗑️
I know omg
I don’t identify as a feminist but I agreed with the feminists more in this debate. The girl who defended Andrew Tate completely LOST me
If you want human rights ur a feminist.
And the girl who literally said that she’s thankful for colonizers for bringing her ancestors to the Americas that’s she’s a citizen
The feminists pointing out how men having to play the role of provider is unfair, especially in today's society and economy was refreshing to me.
@@colehughes2679 it's not unfair tho.
@@kindallnight1615tbh if i was black woman i'd rather live as us citizen than in some poor country in africa
But what really bothered me was that the Muslim girl didn't bring up "feminism" in regards to islamophobia. But it holds a huge presence especially when people start criticizing Islam and showing outright hatred because they think it's anti-feminist. When it's not.
It is girl. Have u read the Quran?
@@roselynnwood4657 babes I’m Muslim Ofc I’ve read the Quran
@@aishabjorndalenand Hadiths probably not
@@Badjuda I can assure you I’ve read both the hadiths and the Quran. And I would like to add that perhaps you should listen to the proper explanation and interpretation of the Hadiths and Quran rather than make your own assumption on statements you probably misinterpreted and misunderstood
@@aishabjorndalen I know and I did
the discussion around patriarchy had my jaw on the floor.. like how in the world did you come to that conclusion?
I have never wanted to participate in a discussion so bad, literally screaming at my screen rn bc some of the claims made in this video were INSANE
Wanted to debunk the Muslim girl so BADD. They were tiptoeing around her😭😭😭
i feel like they always bring people with the most random claims and wildest points
Just INSANE! And some of the feminists politely nodding to not seem closer minded… girl this woman just said women in the gulf are perfectly happy and have total equity! Don’t nod your head! That’s WILD
Yeah those feminist certainly made a lot of false claims
@@zandikhetwayo7444The feminist movement is hateful, loud, racist. Look at them they’re all white and the conservatives are multi ethnic. It’s obvious to the objective eye
What a braindead conversation..
I was in physical pain
America will fall because of these conversations. The liberalisation on the world stage in the last 30 years is gonna cause wars.
Yeah for the most part I just felt like everyone was arguing their personal opinions instead of what the prompt asked… or arguing how the other side is wrong by their opinions. Crazy how no one knows the definition of patriarchy…
i like reading the subtitles and seeing (speaking over each other) LET THE CHAOS BEGUN!!!
I feel like the anti feminist side is debating based off feelings and the feminist side is debating based on stats
What stats? Just throwing out studies and figures doesn’t mean anything unless they provide the information about a specific study so that it can be verified. Also, data can be manipulated so it’s hard to find trustworthy sources.
It’s the opposite.
I think you have that backwards, or at the very least they both went off feelings. No stats were ever given on the feminist side
Neither side were using stats…
What's statistics
Just wanna make the point, not all feminist think you HAVE to remove it. its about choice. Hijab in iran is oppressive because lack of choice. You should be free to wear what you want, no shame. You should also be able to wear bikinis, legally. Weird, but none of our business
In that case, do you think people should be allowed to walk around naked? Because not allowing it is technically telling someone what to wear. Just trying to play the devils advocate.
In the same way its oppressive that France does not allow the choice to wear a hijab.
@@shaharyar4093 yes. I never claimed otherwise
@@altaccount9716 yeah, but it is to everyone no matter what the gender is. Telling a woman what to wear in public places is a bit strange if it doesn’t apply to men as well. Why would you force a woman to wear (or not to wear) certain piece of cloth whereas for men, you wouldn’t. That’s where you need to draw the line.
@@shaharyar4093Research the law. It doesn't allow a hijab at work or school, but it allows them outside. It's a secular law. Made in 1907.
The fact that they defend literally a drug lord and human trafficker…
And blame Trans People for all the world's problems.
Is there proof of that
He did that before he became a Muslim and he was a Christian I'm assuming
Doesn't erase the crimes. If he's true Muslim, let him pay for his crimes. @@khadijahbegum3546
@@khadijahbegum3546still doesn’t change that fact he was doing some shitty things
I think this video is an example of what happens when we attribute too much value to race.
These debates need clear definitions that everyone agree on before posing questions. Language and phrasing really make a huge difference in how people answer the prompt.
It would've been more appropriate to bring out POC living in said oppressive countries and not ones who see glimpses of that "glamorous and comfortable" lifestyle on social media or when visiting.
Would you pay for those women to go to this platform?
What kind of question is that? My comment isn't a dig on this video, it's just a suggestion if Jubilee has the means to fund their travels@@ginihall1234
@@ginihall1234What kind of question is that? My comment isn’t a dig on this video, it’s just a suggestion if Jubilee has the means to fund these travels
these episodes are filmed in LA (i think) where are they going to find people from oppressive countries?
Maybe some who formerly did? I just didn't like the glamorized lifestyles depicted by the Anti-Feminist side @@ieevux
21:30 Did Tia, a Black woman, essentially just say Black people should thank white colonizers for their American citizenship, even if by way of slavery? Please tell me I'm wrong. (ETA: I guess I have to state the obvious: No one's oblivious to how we got here; it's the whiff of appreciation in her statement that alarmed me…)
Seee, I know I wasn’t the only one that was like…huh?
Yes disturbing AF!
Also this country was built off the backs of many black ppl after that part, poc in general but it was primarily black ppl of the poc. When did we get child labor laws again?
....where is the lie???? Most African Americans wouldn't be here if their ancestors weren't enslaved and brought here. So technically she is correct.
@@buttcheekclapper technically true in a roundabout way. It was just a HUGE chunk of very uncalled for abuse in between that made her saying that seem a little too grateful.
Some of the antifeminist are VERY hypocritical. In one argument they say that having the fear of not being to walk out at night alone doesn’t impede rights but trans women competing in sports does?! Men being outside as a threatening presence at night is hate against me, but trans women are dangerous when just competing in sports? It’s giving an misogynoir energy I don’t
Women have always worked, it's so weird to act like men did everything while women sat back.
I'm deeply "traditional in my femininity" feminism allows me to make that choice. The anti-feminists just seem confused about what feminism's goal actually is.
But in the being they already agreed the the feminism move ment was broken up and could be unclear
What is the goal??
I am also confuse, please teach me, what is their goal?
We're waiting.
You seem confused ab what they said. They know they're in agreement with feminism, they don't agree with a lot of modern feminist rhetoric.
The problem with these 'stick to ur roles' is that they want everyone to follow those roles only.. Why is it a problem for u or anybody if someone doesn't want to follow that societal assigned role?
Yessss that’s what annoys me so much.
Have you thought for a moment that your current societal worldview was carefully crafted for you to become dysfunctional? Have you ever considered that WWIII was going to be fought with technology and not with guns? There is a reason why many folks dunk on Gen Z you only think surface level.
They're not saying that but they are saying that society today doesn't want anyone in those roles
@@authorjoannawhite The politicians don't want us in these roles, dysfunction is how politicians make money. Why do you think Democrats have been campaigning for student debt relief for over 30 years and STILL haven't done it?
Exactly that’s what I got from their take. They don’t like feminism because they believe we should stick to our roles. I’m a feminist because I believe we get to choose ourselves
So we’re all about hearing from POC women, until they’re not feminist? Yikes.
Basically. Thats all its ever like, as soon as your viewpoints dont align
Bingo
Lol that's how it's always been. That's why 'liberal hypocrisy' is a thing.
Same with prolife women. Listen to women until they disagree with popular opinions
I feel like a lot of the points the feminists brought up for valid if you look at it from a European perspective, but that doesn't work in the lense of a many other cultures. It's a very base fundamental thing that I feel wasn't brought up enough in the video.
this video is so unbalanced 💀 it should’ve at least been white feminists vs poc feminists
What would be the point of a debate then if they’re all feminists? Debates are supposed to be between people who don’t agree.
whats there to debate then?
@@cedricdavis513 you have no idea, white feminism is the downfall of feminism
Love the longer episodes. I would love to see an episode where anti-feminist POC go against POC feminist
I would love to see that because I know a couple of black feminists who would bring the heat
Imagine someone acting on every inhumane thing u can think of then converting to another religion and being forgiven💀
Grew up Muslim. That whole moment was cringe af.
@@amiraking6688Same. Not a Muslim anymore though
It's not the conversion that gets them forgiven...it's the remorse. If someone converts just to aim to have their sins removed, obviously that conversion is not genuine and they won't be forgiven just like that. People who truly convert are never confident that they'll be forgiven.
😂ikr
True remorse and full repentance is what is needed. You can’t just claim it and be forgiven. You are ignorant lol
Bravo! for making this happen. A true well-moderated debate between equals (v "experts"). (And, yes, of course not all voices were represented here.) Not always easy listening, but so much more redeeming then the usual echo-chamber social media forums. Keep working on those moderating skills. I know it's not easy.
‘Men have the ability to go outside without fear’ even though statistically in every western country men suffer the most from violent crime… no one pointed that out.
who are those crimes comitted by again? 🤔😂
@@toxic_clownz Don't be racist
@@SKuLLxKruSHeR how am i racist?
@@toxic_clownzthat’s not the point. The point is that men are more at risk. Criminals dont do crime Bcuz society coddles them and doesn’t punish them, the reason ppl do crime is choice. It’s not Bcuz society tells men to do crime
@christophervibe7430 It absolutely is the point. You can't cry victimhood while simultaneously being the perpetrators. Women are endangered by men. Men are endangered men. The common denominator her is.... MEN. Men are the problem here.
They need to have an educated feminist and anti feminist discussion.
Educated is a better suggestion. We need far less ums and spouting arguments on the fly.
I doubt you'd find many educated people that do not consider themselves feminists tbh
@@danceforjb Indoctrination centers.
@@danceforjbI beg to differ. A black woman with a decent knowledge of history will want equality. But not be a feminist
@@danceforjbsay that again!
I love that they put a moderator but I wish he did better with the interuptions.
For Jubilee this is miles better than in the past lmao
He's been better in other ones. You can tell he was hesitant to try to "take control" given the environment and the subject matter.
i find him very annoying
So annoying. He should stop interruptions not add his own bits
I think they should not have him to be honest, not being rude is just like it unfiltered
a lot of statements of the anti feminists side were just so problematic ..
Oh no not "problematic"😢😢
Nobody wants a trans in women locker or bathrooms, how's that problematic.
saying patriarchy is a Western thing is wild considering the West is by a long shot the least patriarchal civilisation ever
It's pretty ironic that the west is always the target of feminists when it's the most female-progressive culture in history
Regardless of whether she truly believes Andrew Tate has changed, her saying "we shouldn't judge people based on their past"? We absolutely can judge people on prior acts behavior and statements, especially as egregious as his. If you've hurt people, you are not owed forgiveness. If you truly change, you should do so because you want to be better, and also recognize that it will be a hard, long road, to regain trust, and potentially be forgiven, but again, forgiveness is not something you are owed for no longer doing harm. The harm done is still there.
Also, I'm not so sure she would give him the same benefit of the doubt if he'd been openly gay or anything like that
Everyone has done bad things in the past, including you. You aren't some all-righteous being who's worthy of judging who deserves forgiveness and who doesn't.
I am a muslim womem myself and In islam we believe that if someone converts hes past sins get removed (unless its sins that involve people) so what this sister said here is true. And the allegations that Andrew hurt women, were proving to have been false but the western media and elite pushed only this narrative because Andrew was going and speaking up against their agenda
This comment rubs me so wrong. People make mistakes. You probably have made so many mistakes in your life, wouldn’t YOU want them to forgive you ? No ones a saint. Forgiveness is usually more so for your inner peace, rather than the said person. You can never be at peace if you judge others so harsh expecting them to treat you nice. This is what makes us human and keeps the society thriving or else the world would’ve ended long ago.
@@takemetomarz I mean, would you say that same thing if he'd been openly gay? Also, he hasn't technically admitted to any wrongdoing and has given no indication that he's remorseful.
19:22 “patriarchy was created in the west” ok, what about literally every other region on earth.
Pretty sure she meant to add a comma in there. Despite still not agreeing with her, I don’t think she meant patriarchy only originated in the west. “…especially in the west, through colonialism” There’s lots of miscommunication even in the comments. Some are meaning the word/concept of patriarchy, others mean a permeating global culture.
Personally I blame Queen Victoria Mao Zedong was always known for his feminist activism
They are delusional 😂
I think it came from Ancient Egypt and Babylon...
Even if Andrew Tate becomes a Muslim, this does not erase his crimes. I am sad to know that there are some Muslims who defend him just because he became a Muslim. As Muslims, we believe that your past as a non-Muslim does not matter as long as your sins are forgiven, and what is more important is your present as a Muslim.
When you become Muslim your past sins are forgiven.
I think it would be wonderful if u post the edited and unedited (uncut) versions so that we get to watch both,the shorter if one wants to save time and the other if one was interested in more
17:59 “saudi women used to be happier” ah yes the time where saudi women weren’t even considered worthy of having their own drivers license
انا امره سعودية وسعيده جدا وافتخر ببلدي
because owning a drivers license has been the pillar of human happiness.
Being happy and being free don't necessarily have to be true at the same time. Being limited, structured, and straightforward is appealing to some people.
It’s always westerners who dictate how other people in different parts of the world feel when in reality they have no clue at all
and yet she's in the US talking about feminsim, she can gladly go back and preach that there
Disappointed in the sister making excuses for Tate when there’s a mountain of evidence against him! Yes, he’s Muslim (at least that’s what he claims) but that doesn’t erase his wrongdoings (crimes) against women.
It's cuz she wishes to be trafficked by him . There are a lot of Muslim women pick me online that worship Muslim men . Sad to see
what evidence?
What crimes? Didn´t your censored master commit worse crimes? The numbers 6 and 9 come to my mind.
If that were true, then he would already be in prison. But, he isn't. So, just be honest. You want him in prison just because you don't like him.
@@AJ-lm5dl I'm not saying anything specific about Tate, but a lot of people commit crimes and don't end up in prison or held guilty in the court of law due to lack of evidence. I'm not saying Tate is guilty of X crimes or not but not everyone who should be in jail or held responsible for a crime will be. That's an unfortunate reality.
This was very entertaining, excellent show, we need a part 2. I always thought all women were feminist, great to see this women speaking in balance
I HAVE BEEN SAYING EQUITY OVER EQUALITY FOR YEARS AND I AM SO HAPPY TO HEAR SOMEONE ELSE BRING IT UP!
The muslim girl defending andrew tate 😂😂😂
worms for brains
Chicken defending KFC😂😂
What's wrong with that?
Any women who defend Islam is like a cow who defend McDonald's
@@tgr5312 seriously
I love the irony of the anti feminists speaking on their femininity and “softness” whilst also aggressively arguing and yelling at the feminists.
😂
That aggression is also only saved for women btw. remember, In their eyes, men can do no wrong lol
@@wumbo1536 women are of less threat to do physical lasting harm, it's no accident lesbian relationships have the highest domestic abuse rate
@CURTSNIPER dude this isn't true. Men are the primary abusers for all ppl, including women, men, children, trans ppl, and anyone in between. At no point in history have women been the biggest threat to anyone
@@CURTSNIPERThat's because women are constantly treated like fragile children by society.
what about women sexually assaulting men & that being normalized??? when it shouldn’t. no one talks about that.
I want a safe space as a female in female spaces. I went into a swimming change room for females and I looked around to make sure everyone was female. never had to before, it has me feel threatened am I safe. That shouldn’t be a concern for me, it’s so something I didn’t have to think about till it all went nuts…
oh boohoo
As a mother, hearing another woman say there’s nothing we can do to try and prevent children being assaulted or taken advantage of other than “tell me about it after it happens” is just beyond disgusting and so disheartening. So you’ll advocate and for things like bodily autonomy for women, but just shrug your shoulders at protecting kids?
This! And coming from the woman who works with rape victims... imagine looking them in the face and telling them there's nothing we can do to protect you
Exactly.
That’s not at all what she was saying it might have concluded that way but to respond to the trans conversation she just said a predator doesn’t walk around with a label. And if you have ever experienced assault before you would understand that it can be the very closest people that hurt you. So yes there’s no way to tell but also there can be measures taken at hiring level to weed out potential predators. But the anti feminists were only making it a trans issue which is insanely disrespectful to say the least
And I say this as a mom of 2 girls
@@StriveforJannah2no she literally did say you can’t prevent it which is a LIE. Interviewing someone for a job where you could see their criminal record and do extensive background checks thoroughly and go through their social media is more thorough than just letting anyone into women’s spaces. They just don’t want to admit there is a difference in the 2.
I love how the muslim girl completely ignored what the Iranian women were fighting for. She is a clown. Who invited her?!
Thank you for stating this
she was so disingenuous.
she's rnuslirn lmao. What did you expect. Those people can't think
And? Just beacuse she is iran, dosen't mean she have to listen more to the iran girl, like wtf. The muslim have all my respect
@@loverdj9091 she's from a western family who chose to wear hijb JFL. She's nothing like the muslims from the actual west asia. Some opinions are less credible and less important than others
It is Sad that several questions were not answered properly by both sides, but it was still the most fun episode.