Antique Italian Coffee Grinder - Restoration
In this video I'm restoring a very unique looking antique italian coffee grinder. I recieved this coffee grinder a few weeks ago as a gift from a subscriber from Italy. He sent me a picture of it, asking me if I want it on Instagram and I said yes immediately. I really liked the unique look of it and its design.
At first I thought this would be a very simple straight forward project. It would soon turn out how wrong I was. The two big wooden parts became a real challenge to restore. It would be rather easy to make new ones, but I really wanted to keep the original ones and restore them. As the bottom piece was warped a lot and was also 3mm oval I couldn't just machine it all clean right away, otherwise I would need to take off way to much material. I decided to try to bend it back flat by soaking in water for a day and than clamp it flat and let it dry. Fortunately my plan worked out and the pice got almost flat again, to my surprise it also became round again within 0.5mm. The reliefed stress made a few cracks appear. I filled them all with a mix of epoxy glue and sawdust. After that I was able to machine it nicely and didn't loose to much on its original size.
The wooden top was rather easy to restore compared to the bottom. Because it had a very loose fit in the body, I decided to machine that diameter clean and glue on a sleeve. That worked very well and then I just had to remake the slots in the sleeve with my rotary tool by following the existing ones.
The color choice was also quite a difficult task on this project. I changed my mind a few times and even repainted the body. First I painted the outside in corn yellow, but that looked very bad with the dark wood. After alot of thinking I decided to püaint it in light ivory, which in my opinion was the absolute correct decission. It matches the dark wood very nice and also works nicely together with the gold.
Overall I'm very happy how this coffee grinder turned out.
I hope you like my work and the video.
Huge thank you to all of my Patreon supporters and specially to:
Tonya M Broerman
Zack Thompson
Adel AlSaffar
afreeflyingsoul
Carsten Bauer
Yale Baker
Gregory
Alex McGeorge
Alistair Moor
Amar.k
Anthony Eufemio
Bendurion
Br. Michael-Francis Smith, OSB
Chris walter
David Barker
Greenstitute
Haitham Al Zir
HouziMoto
Josh Ledford
Josh Wasserman
Joshua Bentley
Lambda GPU Workstations
Louie Carboni
Marius Costan
Matt Boothman
Mellissa Marcus
Monte Gibbs
Nick Houston
NoLoneSurvivor
Paul Mampilly
Pong Lenis
potokslow
StevenVR
Tyler Autry
Tyler Carruth
Vickie Bligh
Vince Valenti
Xavier Carbel
Yuri Zapuchlak
Ajna
Alex Breton
Allen Frank
Amanda Taylor, Esq
Andreas Mimra
Andrew Egerton
Andrew Phillips
Anthony Adams
Arni Bjorgvinsson
audi4444player
Blake T
Brian Hoerl
c km
Chad Bryant
chris roberts
Chris Simondet
Daniel Varga
Dave Hardware
Embiss
flowercrownbouncer
Frankie DeSantis
Geoffroy
Grant Daniel
Grok Senften
Haley McFadden
Hunter R.
Ivan
Jack Curry
Jason Koi
Jeremy Cole
justin f.
Karl R
Kelly Imgrund
Ken Rosso
Kurt Gazow
Marc Cerisier
Mellissa McConnell
Mike Donaldson
Omar Domínguez
Pasacal Schmikal
Ray Yeager
Regis Vincent
Rev. Gina Pond
Robert Todd
Scott Marshall
Sergei Shvartsman
Subramaniam Venkitaraman
Suiros
Svenja Kuckla
Tim Holt
Trevor Kam
Tucker Ifft
웅록 윤
My camera:
Panasonic HC-VX11
I payed a lot of attention on the lighting when filming this video and also the quality of the sound to create an ASMR style video.
If you have any questions about the process, machines i'm using or other stuff, just ask me in the comments. I read them all and i try to reply as soon as possible.
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my language. I try my best to improve my technical english.
Subscribe for more of my content. I'm uploading videos about mechanical stuff, as new creations and buildings and also restorations.
Thank you for watching :-)
„I make a new one“ T-Shirts:
teespring.com/stores/my-mecha...
My Main Channel:
/ mymechanics
My Second Channel:
/ mymechanicsinsights
My Patreon Page:
/ mymechanics
He said he bought new ones and I literally could not comprehend it.
Dude is getting lazy buying screws and nails.
thats never gonna happen lol
@@DyslexicMitochondria Hey bro I watch ur videos. Love your channeI
It means he exchanged money for some that were made by someone else. [Well you did write 'literally'.]
>not making his own tools to make tools that make new screws
He gives more love and attention to the coffee grinder than some parents give to their children.
Said random Russian guy
Thank you very much, I really do appreciate it :-)
@@PushTheLimitsHCR3 lol
@@fuffy468 lol
@@PushTheLimitsHCR3 Igor Turin
Buying new screws instead of making them from scratch? Honestly I'm proud of you. This is growth.
Mn2 of the
i thought exactly this loll
Shhhh don't draw attention to it or else he'll just make a crap ton more to make up for the fact 🙄😆
he just know the easiest way how to restore
I love seeing unusable antiques brought back to life. The restoration is great
Glad to hear that, thank you very much
Yes.. This MAN bringing back to life, something what is left behind, destroyed, not used by anyone.. Dont you think that is a great example of our existence too? If you left behind something, its not gonna transform something bigger and better and greater, but get dust, rust, and it'll totally destroy one day. So, that theory, what is teach us to believe millions of years ago the NOTHING explodes and here we are.. I say, ohh, come on... How can we be so stupid??...
Everyone should stop freaking out over the “I won’t make a new one” moment and admire that sexy sandblaster switch.
NGL I thought the top comment would be about the new switch, but I guess I was wrong.
He’s had the new switch for a while, hactually…
Really? I’ve never noticed before this video.
@@Acheiropoietos I know, but I just can’t get past it
I thought it looked new!
"I won't make a new one", that got me
Made me a bit sad
*Ｔｏｐ 10 Ａｎｉｍｅ Ｂｅｔｒａｙａｌｓ*
same! lol
Me too🤣
I Like "I Make New Once" Also
I have the exact same coffee grinder on a shelf in my livingroom. It originally belonged to my great great grandmother and has been in the family ever since she got it some time in the late 1890's!
Damn that’s cool.
Same
Wow!
damn that's like 130 years old
Could you upload pictures of your coffee grinder and share them so we can compare his result with the way it's actually supposed to look? Thanks!
The restoration is great and all, but the filming and editing here is masterclass! The amount of time it must take to make sure that every piece is captured, in focus, and lit beautifully is mind blowing. Truly great content!
Br
I like how he blued most of the metal to give it a ‘coffee’ colour and drive home the point that this device was designed for coffee! ☕️
For sure, I looked at a couple other channels that just didn't capture same satisfaction because these videos really give you a good feel for each individual piece and mechanism
That is a confident skilled man, swinging a hammer near that lovely paint work.
Yeah! I gasped!
I'm pretty sure he hit the gold dome piece with it. Notice he covers it with his finger, then never shows that area again in the rest of the video.....it is always hidden.
I had the same thought. "what? Are you nuts!"
Curious how he got the nails all the way into the base without marring the paint work. He cut away when they were barely halfway.
@@python3574 19:30 so where's the mark?
Can we take a moment to appreciate the no music or special background just all normal and satisfying
Yes! Totally agree. It's not common, but I enjoy this very much! Just the sound of hard work, passion and effort
I don't know, I wish there was something else, like explanations on what he's doing and why. I'm not really interested on the noises that are made, but rather the end product.
@@mattblomquist6991 he gives pretty good explanations in text format :)
Oddly relaxing.
Silence is the best music I've heard. Rare too
It nice to see you’re eye for detail. Normally I would say it lost it’s originally because of the removal of the patina. On this one it was great by the way.
Thanks a lot
Really nice restoration. I particularly appreciated not going the easy way and making a new wooden base, even after it broke! Using the original parts as much as possible is wonderful.
Thank you very much!
This man is an artist. Every single detail in his videos just oozes with quality. I think this may be THE best restoration channel un KZhead.
Thank you very much, I really do appreciate it :-)
I have 100% confidence that it is the best restoration channel on KZhead or any other platform. He just does amazing work. And his eye for detail is second to none. His craftsmanship is nothing short of amazing.
There are a lot of brilliant restorers on KZhead, and 'my mechanics' makes them all look like dogsh*t.
My though exactly
Rescue and restore also has very high quality restoration videos. Can't recommend them enough
I’m convinced that bluing liquid is actual magic
Its chemistry
@@DeezNuts- and what is chemistry? Magic
It's alchemy
U in
Here's a video I made about bluing: kzhead.info/sun/aLetqZmtp6WXl5E/bejne.html
Told myself I would only watch a little bit, but ended up watching the whole video.I appreciate your time and effort you put into properly restoring items to their original splendor and beyond! Thanks great video
I was thinking it was a pretty doable restoration project... Until I saw you making the new shaft. Hats off sir!
Interviewer: what are your specific skills in craftmanship? my mechanics: all of them
I already press “like” button before the video started because this guy is THAT good.
We all do!
Yeah
@@syahfitriatan8726 ю9
You have my utmost respect! You outdid my expectations with every single part. You were born for this. It's beyond well done!
Many thanks :-)
Respect for using all the original pieces
I'm the only one that are so impressive with how clean he has the workroom?
I think you must be new here.
me too
He's from Switzerland! They have a reputation for being neat, orderly and tidy.
Luckily you can't see what's around the clean spot on the bench you see in the video ;-)
yes, you are the only person in existence to notice this. congratulations.
Did anyone else get really scared when he started hammering the nails into the base next to all the pristine metalwork? He knows what he's doing!
My anxiety acted up with how close his fingers were to the sand belter O_O
yes
I definitely would have brought the nail punch out, a wise man knows he's a fool
By the way, it's very uncommon for me the fabric's choice in adding nails to this beautiful design and mechanism.
Notice he didn't show the nails going all the way in. I was wondering if he had to redo the paint job...that's what I would have been doing.
Switzerland, Austria and Germany - the three countries where you can find the highest quality and attention to detail with craftsmanship!
A craftsman..artist and antiques enthusiast all rolled up in one...
I was terrified that I wouldn’t see him grind some beans. As ALWAYS he used the item he presented to us. What a great human being.
Not always. He didn't use the old soldering iron he restored.
A real human bean
There are lots of channels like this but for some reason, this one is by far my favorite
I know! Tysytube is good but his sense of “humour” is so damn cringe
It's your favorite because his skill is beyond compare. My fave too.
If you don't have a parts washer, sand blaster, or lathe .. Just don't try to make one of these videos. and knowing how to use these . a big plus ..
There is just something so beautiful about repairing old things instead of replacing them. And when that old thing involves coffee, even better ❤️
I'm glad you like it :-)
I love good coffee and also this kind of care and passion restoring old houseware. But honestly, I would make another piece of wood from scratch, not glueing it
I appreciate your oppinion, thanks for watching :-)
I think there is no yoga routine that could calm me down more than this video. Perfect cure for the daily ocd attacks. Thank you for another perfect restoration
Well, than and having a beer too! 👍
"I need to replace these two screws..." YES "I bought new ones" Wait, that's illegal.
Exactly, I really thought he was going to make new ones!
Illegal move in this game 😂
Hey look hey made a new symbol and kept the original base wood. I would of threw it away after it broke into.
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed lol. I live for “I make new one”
To be fair, they were wood screws. It's pretty impractical to machine those.
These items, when finished, are more detailed, more beautiful, more everything than even when they were brand new. Amazing. I could watch these all day.
Glad you like them!
Being in love with coffee so much, adds to the piece of art that I've been watching...
Thanks a lot for being here :-)
"nice try piece of wood, I won't make a new one" *flips table* BLASPHEMY
That was the best line.
Heresy of the highest order!
The attention to detail and the aesthetics are what makes me come back to this channel since the last 3 years that I've known about it.
the commitment not only to restoration but improvement, making each item not only better than you found it but better than it was originally made, proves that this is truly an artisanal craft
Я всякий раз смотрю твои видео как ты рестаарируешь старинные предметы и удивляюсь как маленький ребёнок ты просто волшебник.
I was shocked when you made a new sticker. That's genius and it looks so good. Great work!
Thank you very much!
Details are everything
"Nice try you piece of wood, but I won't make a new one" - best part of the movie 😂
PLOT TWIST
It sure was
That piece of wood really thought it was gonna pull a fast one there and get a whole new body but MM wasn't havin' it. You could feel the tension 😂😂😂
You should sell these and price them like art pieces with your signature or stamp on them somewhere. It'd be SO cool to have this in your house, like a usable, functional piece of art.
I find watching you de-burr sharp edges very soothing.
Thanks, glad you like it
Me: "ah they're already good!" Him: "they don't quite fit" M: "yes of course, they don't quite fit. "
Haha ;-)
@@mymechanicssmall workshop and you are cool
Gun restoration a very old found in the junkyard | Rusty Vintage Pepperbox
The Masterchef Effect
Next episode hes going to restore those grinded coffee beans
Would love to see him pair the pieces of each bean, like a jigsaw puzzle, glue them together, bring it to the exact shape of a bean, polish it to the right surface texture of a coffee bean, blue it, rather brown it to the right shade and a final shot saying "Et Voila"! Oh, and the final test like every item, put it through the grinder and see it has ground well.
@@SubramaniamLakshminarayanan What!
"I bought new ones."
"I make new ones" *moves to Colombia*
Ground*
This is the best restoration of a coffee grinder that I have seen.
That final test brought it all together and made me scream out loud, "I LOVE IT!!!"
Nice to hear that, thank you very much :-)
HE'S BACK! OMG THE KING OF RESTORATION IS BACK
He’s always with us!
Good idea to recess the base, so future warping doesn't cause it to wobble.
Even then there's no telling what old wood will do, but it's sealed and dry now lol
Was für eine Perfektion. Wo jede Lösung klug durchdacht ist und man immer wieder nach diesem kurzen Spannungsbogen (schafft er es oder nicht?) nur mit einer großen Zufriedenheit des Ergebnisses wieder in Entspannung versetzt wird. Großartige Arbeit. Unbezahlbar.
The level of production/fabrication. Just awesome.
For most of the work, I thought ... ok, I could learn that. Then you hammered the nails in without touching the case ... forget it. Wonderful work!
Best restoration I've seen all year. You've taken something old and almost broken and turned it into something better than it was when it was new. Nice work.
Thank you very much, I really do appreciate it :-)
In the car trade we call this "over-restored" :-D
@@TitoRigatoni in the productive world, we call it pride in workmanship, striving for excellence, always doing your best......🤷♀️☝
@@grammiesgottabbgun2906 yeah no doubt. Over-restoring a car requires pride in workmanship, striving for excellence, always doing your best. I didn't mean to imply it was a negative thing - over-restored cars are literally better than showroom new, and it takes a lot of skill and effort to bring an old used car to that level..
@@TitoRigatoni thanks! Just didn't want to see your comment go to the used car lot! Lol✌ By the way, I have always preferred the classics and got my hands on an 81 chevy g20 van w/55k original miles and I'm the 2nd owner! (It's the newest ride yet! Prefer 1970 & older) Having the paint job redone due to my other half trusting to quickly and the paint is peeling. I so want a sand blaster! Lol, hoping to hybrid too! Oh. Most importantly! I always make a profit on my rides whether I do any upgrades or not! 👍
Watching you restore old items puts me in a meditative state.
Watching these videos has led me to believe I would find a career as a professional sandblaster very satisfying.
haha go for it ;-)
See you would think, but silicosis is no joke. I was still coughing WEEKS after i left my sandblasting job, and we were double masked + there was a vacuum carrying most of the particulate away.
@@TheMenasaur yeah this sand is so fine you'll have it everywhere after blasting.
P.B. = Piazza Battista, an old italian firm that was settled in the little town of Pettenasco, Orta lake (Piedmont)
E ha sbagliato il logo, poteva cercarlo su internet
Thank you. I was wondering what "P B" meant with no country of origin to start with.
It means Panzerknacker-Bande. 😉. Maybe they used it for their breakfast coffee, before Mickey brought them into jail.
not peanut butter? just kidding. hehe
@@gundummies both hypotheses can be correct :-)
This is not a restoration, this is a perfection of its own level. True mastership and dedication!
the second half of a video waited for the test, and he did it!!! Instant relief.
Not just for the restoration... but the way you show the details in each piece is amazing 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
Nice to hear that, thank you very much :-)
I was getting nervous when you were tapping the nails in during reassembly of the base! Your skills are so excellent you never slip once. Another beautiful restoration!
I think he did slip. check 18:52, there's a scratch next to his finger ;)
Please
R2
42rr4
W
lol at the "nice try wood" joke.
Don't know if anyone else mentioned it , but TPI is Threads Per Inch not Turns Per Inch. Beautiful! Your attention to detail is impeccable. Bravo.
You are the Fountain Of Youth+ for old and tired stuff.
You did not only restore that coffee grinder, you improved the design thanks to superior skills and more advanced machinery
If he started this project with the intention of improving it he probably would have made a new stand for it instead of soaking it and compressing it for several days, and most likely not even out of wood, wood doesn't last as well as stainless steel, also he would have made an entirely new grinding mechanism that grinds much finer coffee.
@@Csaszarcsaba1 finer grind isn't necessarily an improvement, not all methods of brewing coffee require an extremely fine grind like you would have with espresso.
Pretty sure he wanted to use the original materials as much as possible
@@arch-zero That is always his goal. Making a new part is always the last resort.
@@akyde1552 If you want the most flavor and caffeine possible out of the coffee bean, then you do need a super fine grind.
Last time I was this early, everything still had sharp edges.
Yep I remember
This guy is the Roger Federer of his craft. Unmatched dedication in camerawork + editing, plus all the incredible attention to detail. The only restoration channel that actually makes me smile in the process, because he shows such a great deal of respect for these antiques! You sir, deserve many, many more million subs!
I AM SORRY, but I know all of these steps, and you are a MASTER !!! Extremely good at your work, and the detail is phenomenal !!
This guy's attention to detail is insane, that's why he's the best
Yeahh
The amount of skill, planning, knowledge, and equipment needed for this is insane!!!! Like just knowing how to shave or fix a part so that it will attach properly to the next piece is amazing to me!
I had this exact same thought, I could no longer resist the urge to comment this obvious fact when he just sawed the shaft off the grinder and made a new one from scratch... the amount of skill and knowledge in this person is absolutely insane. I also wonder what profession he actually trained for in school to be able to do all this!? Edit: and what an eye for detail omg
The meticulous details and intricate camera angles make this an exceptionally therapeutic watch. Thank you.
Я не смотрю ваши ролики,я любуюсь вашей работой. Отдельный восторг заслуживает чистота вашей мастерской. Такая же чистая получается у вас и работа👏👏👏👏
Лучший мастер! Одно удовольствие смотреть на его работу.
I don’t know if anyone truly understands the time and effort put into these projects. If anyone is under the impression that these restorations take a couple days or a few hours you are sadly mistaken. These quality restorations take weeks if not months to get perfect, and not everything works on the first try. The quality and attention to detail this man puts into his restorations is second to none. Let’s all take a moment and appreciate the time and effort these videos take to create and upload for our entertainment and information.
I realised that from the start. So I suspect that there is in some way a business model behind it. Like he's a restaurator in a museum for industrial design or he has a good running shop or even a selling house for old(er) industrial design.
I highly doubt any of these take more than a week, that doesn't make it not hugely impressive though
Well I'm also into restoration projects and I can hereby certify that mine don't last for weeks or months, as I'm usually done within 10 to 20 hours, with a quality level that perfectly goes beyond what you can find on this channel.
@@jermainewashington7447 second that! 😄
@@jermainewashington7447 why exactly would I owe you anything? who do you think you are to ask for a proof whatsoever? this is some special kind of simping right there...
Blows me away. What an absolute work of ART! I don't even drink coffee and I want this.
Thanks, I'm glad you like it :-)🤗
my heart dropped a little when the wood broke, i'm so glad it could be fixed
It's always fun seeing tools from previous restorations show up in these videos. It's like when you're playing a game and you save a side character and you see them reappear to fight alongside you in later levels.
This one was a roller coaster of twists and turns. Buying new screws, saving old wood, plugging holes... I had a great time as always!
So beautiful 🤩 When you grind the grain, we can smell the coffee ☕️🤣👌🏼
I feel peace in mind when I watch your video. Thank you so much.
I actually like it when he doesn’t “make a new one” it avoids the whole Ship of Theseus problem.
Should've hit that bottom part with wooden hammer instead of metal one...
It's mostly why I watch his videos
@@UlyssesDrax No. on a philosophical level I like restorations more when they keep the original parts. other wise its just making a copy of the original.
Grinding the coffee at the end was the true final touch. Lovely and still grinds a nice medium/coarse grind perfect for a press.
Thanks for watching, much appreciated
Time has got nothing on this man's repair skills
What you've made with second thread! Pure magic, dude!
Thank you very much :-)
What my mechanics thinks we want: Restoring antiques. What we actually want: How you restored the sandblaster button
🤣🤣🤣
Made a new one, surely?
I miss when it was censored. xD
Did they get a new left glove yet?!
I can't believe I only just noticed it was fixed. I went back and checked his last 4 videos to work out when he finally fixed it.
The label is the part where most would have failed. I’ve seen model restorers do everything perfectly and then distort Times New Roman for the label. - Of course the label was perfect here too. 😃
The label was replicated from a 2d photo of a curved 3d surface, and suffered some horizontal squash in the process.
Any idea what program he used to create that? And what did he print it on? Sticker paper? Never seen anything like that.
Utterly brilliant. More skills than I can count!
Это удивительно, когда ,казалось бы, бросовая вещь обретает вторую жизнь. Успехов в творчестве и жизни!
I was kind of happy to see his determination to stick with the original material as much as possible.
Wooden part: *gives up and flatlines* MM: "You will live, goddammed!" *resuscitates*
"Don't dry on me you son of a bitch!"
@@irishwristwatch2487 , very creative response. 😂
@@irishwristwatch2487 Ok, THAT was a good one!
What a beautiful job, that been done to restore a fabulous antique. Well done 👏 ✔. Julia Cassidy from Nottingham England 🇬🇧.
What I've learned is that there is a way to fix anything. This was awesome to watch.
"Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, but today is A NEW MY MECHANICS VIDEO WOO!"
Yeh😉
Coffee, don't coffee...
I love seeing old projects getting used while restoring new ones. It's like a weird continuity Easter egg for repeat viewers.
OOOH that's a nice one. Italian? You have a lot of great tools and tips. This was very interesting, and VERY well done. That metal lathing and building an entire new shaft was CRAZY. _AND_ that paint job! So fun to watch a master at his craft! Now the upgrade looks--and probably functions--better than new might have been!
You are a true reviver of the old and give it a new life very impressed. from Australia.
"I won't make a new one." "I bought new ones." Me: checks to make sure it's not April 1st
Probably doesn't have the means to cut such coarse threads but yeah what a shock
Glad he didnt have to put a bunch of labor and time into some screws he could easily purchase.
I was slightly disappointed as well. But for something as petty as standard screws and nails, I understand. The time saved is better spent making more videos and machining more complicated pieces.
Surprised me either!
I really like seeing the small finishing steps that didn't exist in the original manufacturing process. It makes me wonder if the company didn't think to add finishing touches or that manufacturing has just gotten better as a whole.
My grandfather hand made coffee grinders in Ukraine before WW11. They were only able to be commissioned if you were wealthy. Hand making any item is expensive.
@@shedmanx3640 you had 11 world wars?
Manufacturing HAS gotten better, but like YellerFurd said most things don't need careful finishing or that finishing is automated. I used to machine a lot of copper vacuum parts that couldn't have any scratches or sandpaper. Jewelers files only for deburring haha
@@shedmanx3640 Your grandfather survived 11 wars! Respect +++
I just watched your video again.... my, you do beautiful work. Seriously, it is a joy to watch.
I just love the way you always improve on the original casting or machining - things look WAY better afterwards!
Thank you for always showing the item functioning again! It's just so satisfying.
Thanks a lot for watching :-)
I’m Italian, and my grandma always had one of these in her kitchen, now I’m kinda nostalgic :)
Same :)
Me: Frantically searching Italian a n Facebook marketplace for one of these cool things
Same!! :D
You are helping break me out of this soul killing frame of mind that the dilapidated condition something is found in is somehow permanent. Thank you
Its fascinating to see how the old techniques vs the new, how crude and unrefined they were back in the day to now when everything has smooth edges and lines up, that's progress and care! Beautiful restoration.
Many thanks :-)
So why the old things lasted an entire life, while modern things broke after a few years? 😂 I don't see that progress, we live in the consumerism age Everything you buy it will going to break soon, so you will have to buy it again in order to favor the economy
@@donnie_darkoo very sad, but true.