When table saw safety goes TOO FAR!
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★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★ ISOtunes is a small, family company in Indiana that makes Bluetooth hearing protection for the shop, yard and everywhere else. (Support a small business and save 10% when you use this link, or the discount code: STUMPY) shop.isotunes.com/stumpy #ISOtunes #ISOtunesSport @isotunes @isotunessport *My Table Saw and Bandsaw are AWSOME! Check them out at Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/ *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Some other useful links:* -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE INEXPENSIVE TOOLS★ - #ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save 10%): shop.isotunes.com/stumpy -BOW Featherboards: amzn.to/430ldhv -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3 -Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6 -Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13 (If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
They have a Canadian site also (ISOTunes, that is)! They also sell refurbished for the frugal at heart (like me).
We need videos like this because common sense is only common to those who have it.
If you don't know you don't know. Sometimes it's obvious once you know. Sometimes people forget all the relevant experiences they have that others may not. Edit: I agree is what I meant to say.
Common sense is the greatest oxymoron in the English language. Look around. Not here of course. Because anyone who watches Stumpy are good peeps
Common sense is only common to those who have it, so you need more videos like this! 😅
@@samsonacc8081 That's not how common sense works. I can point to many common sense things on computer and many people will not consider that common sense. If you don't have the foundational knowledge you're not going to consider something common sense.
Perfect video. I've seen people constantly bang on about how safety tips on KZhead are fake and I hate it, you've shown why some practices are dangerous but why others are good. Love your work
This video is a clear demonstration of the difference between knowing the rules and understanding them. A common example is "don't plug a power strip into another power strip". It's easy to remember and that in turn will prevent you from making a specific mistake. But if you understand the rule, you know that the reason for it is that you don't want to overload any individual outlet or cable. This can technically cause a fire due to high heat buildup melting the insulation and allowing for a short circuit. But if all of the connected devices don't draw anything near a combined 15-ish amps, you're perfectly fine chaining a dozen power strips. The lower the combined power draw, the less of an issue this becomes. And this principle applies equally to this video. You're not doing anything wrong by following the initially stated rule. But you might just miss out on a few really practical types of cuts. Great explanation as always.
That's a great example. In fact, if all we are doing is using power strips as an extension cord, then connecting them makes the whole circuit safer, because it adds resistance to the circuit, which lowers the current...if I understand correctly. I think that a lot of government policy and rules should be like this, where we have a basic set of rules for people, who don't like to think, and then an advanced set of rules for those, who do. The advanced rules would be for people who study the rules intently to do a good job.
People should note that the maximum of 15 amps is the case in the United States. Other places may be different. For example, in Australia which uses 240 volts, the maximum is 10 amps. And of course the problem is if all the connected devices draw more than the maximum _at the same time._ You might have six 8-amp machines all connected, but if you only have one of them being used at a time, then the maximum power being drawn is still only eight amps.
@eugenetswong Respectfully, your example is very wrong, but I think I understand the train of thought that makes that seem logical. But when you add resistance to a circuit, you are adding heat, which is exactly what causes the fire. The wiring in the wall, as well as the outlets, bus bars, and all other wiring components, have an amount of resistance already, and their amperage rating is a direct reflection of that. If you draw more amps than the rating, the resistance in the wiring etc... will get hot and ultimately risk a fire. So by plugging in power strips in series and increasing resistance in the circuit even further, you would be increasing the risk of a fire. However, if you plug in ten 10-outlet power strips (with 15 amp rating) in series and fill the 91 free outlets with 0.1 amp cell phone chargers, you will be well within the threshold of your circuit and you will be waiting a very long time for your 91 cell phones to charge. Again, no disrespect. If it wasn't for resistance leading to heat, your example would have made alot of sense, in that the decreased maximum amperage would have been electrically safer
@@christophermeiners8305 Yeah, i don't sense disrespect from you. Thank you for the detailed correction. I'm really confused, though. With 1 power strip, with nothing plug into it, the electricity can slowly leak through the air. Why isn't that strong resistance causing lots of heat build up?
@@PJRayment And here I was thinking that just using amps makes it more internationally applicable. Here in Europe I can pull over 3000W from an outlet so I went with amps. And I mostly agree with the second part. The only caveat is that you really do need to make sure to only ever have an appropriate number of devices running in that scenario. If on the other hand the combined maximum power draw is less than an individual outlet is rated for, that is still safer than a situation where just two devices together will exceed it. I couldn't be a dum dum and overload the circuit by accident that way.
I like the fact that you understand fully what you are teaching. That's really a rare occurence on youtube. And I appreciate you sharing your UNDERSTANDING and not only the rules and exception.
Years ago, I worked at a cabinet shop, and used the miter gauge and fence all the time for through cuts with no kickback. I put the gauge to the right of the blade on the same side as the fence, and used the fence as a stop. The board that rode against the fence was supported and pushed through the fence by the gauge.
Came for Stumpy, stayed for Stubby.
To me this is more of a clarification than an exception.
That is exactly how I was taught in woodshop class in the early 70's. Use these setups to this day, never had a problem.
Great video. This is exactly what my carpentry teacher taught over 40 years ago. Also a wide miter gauge is also a factor. It's a good idea to extend that 6" wide gauge that comes with many saws or get a very good one like Stumpy is using in this video.
Great advice with a clear explanation. Thank you for sharing.
Safety, yes. Common sense, yes. Hard and fast rules, well, not always. I had to deal with this many time when writing SOP's (safe operating procedures) for a wide assortment of 500kV electrical equipment. Whether a person is skydiving, using power tools or walking across the street, as long as you respect the dangers you are on the correct path of staying out of harms way. Thanks for sharing.
As I started to read this, I thought you were going to say something about skydiving while using power tools and thought "This should get interesting!" So today's project will to be to do a HALO jump and build a complete coffee table before pulling the chute. Good thing we've battery operated tools nowadays.
@@JCWren Now that would be a great TicToc challenge
Stumpy Nubs: making sense when the rest of us don't
"That will cut your face off!" We need this thumbnail (whatever you call the yt thangs) as a poster for the shop. Maybe a t-shirt.
My dad used to say that when I was a kid.
@@StumpyNubs It happened but usually only in samurai movies. "Lone Wolf...and Cub...".
Really expected this to be about gloves at first! 😂 Everything you said here is especially important for European sliding table saws! The sliding part is basically a built in router sled, and well, you’ve talked about what can happen. Thankfully many sliding table saws do let you pull the secondary fence forwards, so it ends before the blade starts, perfect for a depth stop
Quite common in late twentieth century on Delta saws was the Unifence which had an extruded aluminum fence that could be slid back in the fashion described above. My understanding is that Delta ( or whoever the parent company that week was ) also offered what I think of as a "stub" fence in the area of twelve inches in length for this very purpose. Sadly, the Unifence went the way of the dodo when Delta purchased Biesmeier (sp?) in the late '90's.
You look great! Also 10/10 common sense practice. Great explanation. Appreciated the blade guard whenever feasible. Chef's kiss.
The lack of grey in @StumpyNubs's new scruff is misleadingly disproportionate to old-time safety smarts
You always have good and useful advice. Thank you.
I do this stuff all the time. No problems.
I truly appreciate your safety videos. They are short and have lots of good info in them. Even though I do use most of these in my projects but listening to them from a pro is another reinforcement
I appreciate hearing the whys of rules. good stuff. Ive been wondering why I almost never see YT woodworkers using a blade guard, riving knife, or kickback guard. It makes me very nervous to use my table saw without the guard.
Terrific advice and nicely demonstrated James! 👍👍
Great tips as always mate. Cheers! Scott from Japan
Excellent presentation. Well said….. I got my Harvey Bandsaw and a Saw Stop plus the Pro Miter fence. I broke a rule. You would hit me. I got a loose sleeve cought in my Bosh belt sander that I had on my bench upside down. It tried to eat my arm. I had to pull the plug I was so tangled up. I actually pulled the duplex receptacle and the box out of the wall. No kidding. So fast, so stupid. So lucky….
Excellent advice as always, James. Thank you for taking the time to explain 🌞
Oh! Wouldn't it be nice if Health & Safety inspectors had this level of understanding.
I’ve always taken the rule to be “don’t use the two together for through cuts” so I don’t see these as exceptions. I’ve done every technique you demonstrated and they’re perfectly safe, or at least as safe as any table saw operation can be.
Lots of great information as always.
Thanks!
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO
Thank you for the video and handy hints. Have a good one 👍🇦🇺
Great video as always James thanks again for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Great information and explanations and visual cuttings made. Thanks James. Fred
Thanks. Like your poster on the wall.
Thanks
great video
Stumpy I have been doing exactly what you are talking about for long time !
I think this highlights the importance of knowing WHY a safety rule exists. Here, the base rule is to prevent kickback, but if there's nothing being kicked back the rule is moot.
I use a 123 block. The numbers are easy to remember and it clamps nice to the fence.
Thanks, James. I thought everyone knew that rule, but I guess not. 😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
I've never heard of such rule. I've learned to pull back the parallel stop if I cut something off where I need to use the parallel stop. Every professional table saw I ever saw was able to do so and the cheap hardware store ones have an attachment for this usecase.
Thank you. You're Underrated.
I like the beard! Looks nice!
Hah! Well done dear SN, well done. It but indeed is likely that the bridge to far is the concern. In truth on a laterally related topic we had a person push a 3/4 wide cut (from a 6 inch board) and said person elected not to use a push stick but rather an index finger. Yeah perhaps the 840 needs to be released into the wild!
Lovin the beard Stumpy!
This is a good example of why it's important to explain to people the WHY of every rule. It helps keep people safe to know the possible consequences, and it also shows people when a rule truly applies and doesn't apply.
I do it every day. waxing the saw and fence also helps. I use Zeplon spray if there seems to be a little more moisture in the wood, usually when breaking down raw tree pieces right out of the woodpile that i have just ripped on the bandsaw.
I use a 3 inch wide block with a lip on the back /bottom side that catches the back of your table edge, all are square, simple jig that allows repeatable cross cuts, just don't forget to set your table saw fence the 3 inches 😅
Great info, it's why your my boy blue!!!
I agree and have used miter and rip many times to make a more accurate and cleaner cut
Simply use a clearance block if you are cutting pieces off! Also newer equipment is sliding table saw with the miter gauge and stops. That way no fence is used or many slide the fence so there is clearance and no binding possible for kickback.
Looking good with the beard man
Excellent tips, James! Thanks a bunch!!! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Just had this same conversation in re chainsaws. When training people to cut naturally fallen timber on hiking trails, we give some "must do" rules. Well, those are for the novice to moderately experienced sawyers cutting middle of the bell curve situations. When you are very experienced and at the extremes of what you may need to cut, then there are the exceptions. Skill and experience and a thorough understanding of the situation, physics of the log, etc will tell you when an exception is sensible & necessary to clear the tree from the trail. Things have to be simplified to explain to the less experienced. Just don't take those simplifications as "truly" absolute.
Great video. Thanks.
I made a small (12 in. deep) sled just for cutting joinery. Accurate fence for square mitre, zero-clearance saw kerf, sliding base carries offcuts. Can attach other jigs, or just dbl-face tape a stop block to the base for repeatable small cuts.
That should clear things up.🙂🙂
Excellent - good common sense advice.
Knowledge and attention to the machine are the key safety measures
Stumpy makes sense 👍
I use a 1-2-3 block as a reference block to offset from the fence.
Good tips, makes perfect sense.
Looks like I broke the rules today. Used the fence and miter gauge cutting dados. 🤪🤣No issues what so ever.
Buenos tips, saludos al algoritmo
You should remove the fence and use the back of a magnetic feather board. By placing the feather board behind the blade, you can get the same accuracy without having a fence in your way.😊
Keep the beard muchacho! 👍
A surprising number of people hit thumbs down on this video that should have been a thumbs up. How this could get a thumbs down I don't understand. It was very clear and concise.
I almost downvoted it solely for the click-baity angry/rage pic of himself he put up at that time. It's since been removed.
I used this technique when I was making a tabletop with breadboard ends. It made my tenon much more accurate than using a router (due to my lack of skills).
awesome
To be able to break the rules safely you must understand the reasons for them. A famous Finnish general once said when asked if he demanded strict adherence to orders in every situation from his staff: "those who have a brain may use it, the others must go by the book".
This is why auxiliary fences slide. Slide it back past the arbor, or the spot where the blade dives into the table, to be real safe, and have at it. This also makes it safer to saw boards that would potentially pinch the blade, as the fence is not pushing the workpiece into the blade. You're welcome.
Common sense advice as always. Thank you.
yep,, I learned about the reference block as a youth. the other risk of cross cutting with the fence is if you don't have a good quality miter gauge, it's possible to let the piece torque from the friction with the fence
Well that's just called the loose offcut rule, something I was taught in college back in the 70s. Table saw 101
a utility knife and a 4 foot step ladder are the most dangerous tools we’ll ever use.
Excellent! Common sense prevails! BTW, the beard looks great and is it my imagination or have you dropped a couple lbs? Keep up the GREAT educational videos. Larry
I'll continue my unsafe practices but it's good to know others will know better. The beard looks good, Stumpy. Take care!
I totally agree with you. But I want folks to be very careful the very first time you do this. You should be extra careful because you will find out very quickly if your fence is not parallel to the blade or your miter gauge. And if is not just stop, turn off the saw and adjust it.
I was taught it is also OK when both the miter gauge and fence are on the SAME SIDE of the blade, this allows for passive control of the piece when its between the blade and the fence.
This seems more like people misunderstanding the rule rather than an exception to it. Like a game of telephone, when a rule gets repeated without being understood, small changes add up to the point where the original meaning is lost.
Please use and review LIGNOLOCK nails/pneumatic tools!
Every rule seems to have exceptions. Or if you teach rules then you don’t need exceptions. Teaching can be complicated and this video has good teaching points.
When doing a rip cut, is it safer to cut half way through, flip the board and cut it again?
I have an off topic question. What glue or epoxy would you use to repair a teak swim deck on a ski boat? Obviously under water a lot.
Where do you buy your 'sacrificial wood' at Jim? Good video, except that magic blade at 4.44 ... That brought on a case of pre-senility. I had to slow it down to 1/16th speed to match the blade speed to the kerf speed
Just use a mitre box for cut offs.
👍
I am not a fan of trapping the offcut between the fence and blade when making a 2-cut rabbit for a rabbit or tenon. I make the cheek cuts first, and then set up for the should cut. I make a preliminary shoulder running the edge of the work about half way between the fence and the blade. This removes half of the waste without trapping it against the fence. Then I make the final shoulder cut, removing the final half of the waste, also without trapping it against the fence. Not sure it is essential to safety, but it reduces the chance of something going BANG! during a cut.
Whew! I thought you were going to say we could'nt make cuts drunk or blindfolded, been there - done that. My name is Stumpy too.
What about using the miter Guage on the same side of the blade as the rip fence, as when cutting wide pieces?
My carpentry/machine teacher was teaching safety procedures for the milling machine (making the windowframes' rabbets). Lost his thumb and has pins in his index and middle finger. You can NEVER apply too much safety. Specially with machines. FWIW I was next in line, to pass my windoframe through the mill, when it happened.... Now I have PTSS and had to chose a different profession altogether. ¯\_(ツ)_/ Fun fact. I can't stand blood (specially my own). But I was the only one capable of using the emergency hotline to the EMS...
In a way, the point here is more about language: how the rule is phrased, than it is about practice. Poorly phrased rules will lead to frustration, and ignoring the intended meaning of the rule entirely. And more importantly avoid being literal minded and think.
The beard is a good look, man.
Good advice and just as good, you place your commercial at the end of your video. I pay for premium you tube to avoid comercials so I'm growing tired of channels embedding ads in the middle of their vids.
Is there a recommendation on a beginners guild to table saws? I’m just starting out and going back and forth from saw to KZhead is not very good
I think that some just can’t think of anything else to say so they have to criticize you. Or they weren’t paying attention when this was explained. And it’s been explained time and time again, so let’s all pay attention so this can be the last time and we can move on.
Well said.
YEAH. BUT….. Ok, I’ve got nothing. 😂
OMG, he's using uncommon sense on those cuts
How about pulling the fence back i front of the blade to about the “pinch”. I do this with mitre gauge cuts.
Do you have a SawStop Vs Harvey comparison? If not that would be an interesting video.