Andrew Bustamante: CIA Spy | Lex Fridman Podcast
Andrew Bustamante is a former CIA covert intelligence officer. Check out his work and podcast at everydayspy.com Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Everyday Spy: everydayspy.com/quiz
Everyday Spy Podcast: everydayspy.com/podcast
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PODCAST INFO:
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Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
0:56 - CIA and the President
12:34 - War in Ukraine
53:30 - Most powerful intelligence agencies
1:00:40 - David Petraeus
1:10:17 - Undercover disguises
1:23:16 - Human nature
1:32:36 - CIA recruitment process
1:49:19 - CIA and secrecy
1:55:52 - Cyber security
2:06:34 - Sexpionage
2:13:08 - Private intelligence
2:26:35 - NSA and Snowden
2:54:34 - Conspiracy theories
3:15:42 - CIA and UFOs
3:30:27 - Spy tricks
3:47:10 - Advice for young people
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Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Wealthfront: wealthfront.com/LEX to get $50 sign-up bonus - LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack - BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com/lexpod to get 3 months free - MasterClass: masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off 0:56 - CIA and the President 12:34 - War in Ukraine 53:30 - Most powerful intelligence agencies 1:00:40 - David Petraeus 1:10:17 - Undercover disguises 1:23:16 - Human nature 1:32:36 - CIA recruitment process 1:49:19 - CIA and secrecy 1:55:52 - Cyber security 2:06:34 - Sexpionage 2:13:08 - Private intelligence 2:26:35 - NSA and Snowden 2:54:34 - Conspiracy theories 3:15:42 - CIA and UFOs 3:30:27 - Spy tricks 3:47:10 - Advice for young people
Thanks, Lex! Any updates on interview with Putin?
I'm only 3:00 minutes in and he already misspoke about the source of the authorities. It is not divvied up by the executive. The authorities are legislative in nature, stemming directly from federal statute, codified in the US Code following drafting and ratification by the US Congress. He's also wrong about how money is appropriated/spent 6:20 but he is accurate that 6:25 the directors "serve at the pleasure of the President." Ntl, he's wrong about this appointment structure being reducible to cronyism because the agency could effectively mount a coup against the president and the country if Presidents can't choose leaders to those organizations that they trust. The body of the organization in the form of nonpolitical staff -- each of which is empowered to disregard any illegal order -- is the check against the corruption he purportedly decries.
Every now and again his voice & intonations sounds just like Joe Rogan
29:30 He claims that UK paid off the lend-lease aid in 2020. That is absolutely false. Lend-lease of WW2 didnt have to be paid back. "The Lend-Lease agreements with 30 countries provided for repayment not in terms of money or returned goods, but in "joint action directed towards the creation of a liberalized international economic order in the postwar world." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease He may be mixing it with the anglo-american loan which was given after war and UK paid back in 2006. It helped UK economy to stay running. Also US gave enormous amounts of aid to europe to rebuild, known as marshall aid. This guy frames american aid to europe as malicious, wanting to debt countries. He spreads downright lies and Lex does nothing about it. That's the quality of this podcast.
Just listened to the Ukraine part. I am glad to hear Lex doing more pushback, and it seems the visit to Ukraine maybe revealed to him something that Bustamante does not understand, that Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom. Bustamante is wrong, by the way, that revolutions and wars of independence have only been one with support of great powers. Look at India or Israel for some examples, or say Algeria. Bustamante also seems to miss the bigger geopolitical picture and why it’s important for the West that Ukraine wins: if Russia wins, it will keep invading it’s neighbors, as will other countries that calculate that they can get away with it. That will weaken the western order of the world we live in, including democracy, freedom and other human rights. So his assessment on Ukraine I believe is as wrong as it was on how quickly Russia will take Ukraine (as he admits), and for the same reason. Even if Ukraine falls to Russia, they will resist the puppet government, just like the Finns did in 1930’s. Russia lost already, even if it conquers Ukraine. To Lex, if you read this: I had been banned by you or one of you admins on your telegram. Most likely because I speculated that you might still be looking up to Putin as you seemed to before. I can’t know what your true opinion is, but I am hopeful that if you ever did admire Putin, that visiting Ukraine changed your mind. It takes strong character to change your own mind. Hopefully you can then understand why I was upset with you before, if that showed through my comments. As you, this conflict is personal to me. I am still not sure what your stance is now, but I’ll be looking forward to your video on the trip to Ukraine with some hope now.
I’m a retired FBI Special Agent, and I can say that Andrew’s thoughts on our government not using surveillance against us, but only for terrorism is incredibly naive.
One doesnt need to be a retired FIB speshul agent to get that.
It’s also a lie. Though he may actually believe that, deceive until one believes can apply to themselves as well.
Security over freedom leads to neither-he’s had a cup of kool-aid too many despite his high IQ.
That's not Andrew's thoughts... it's legend
Well then, as the daughter of predatory pedophiles, I'd say my naivete went back in 1963. I trust no one .
"When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are being ruled by criminals" - Edward Snowden.
Yep.
Damn, that hits hard.
Wonder how the free Snowden movement is doing, haven't heard anything a while?
correction my friend, Not where that sublime Detective Sherlock Holmes enters an apperance
Great, and accurate statement.👍🏼❤
His statements about the war between Russia and Ukraine has aged like fine milk 🥛
True
How
@@nothanks9503 ?
Why am I waking up in the middle of the night with this playing on my phone? This interview is one year old
This literally just happened to me. lol
Me too!
You too??! I thought I was the only one who fell asleep to yt 😅
Same
@@leslielearnorth Cannot fall asleep unless I have a story or conversation going to occupy my mind so I will lay still long enough to zonk out. Also it runs interference with tinnitus. You?
That guy made a living out of lying, but he would never lie to us.
. . ever . . His eyes can see thru a concrete wall, as easily as a bank vault door, and read your mind like an open book, already closed. Thank You Andy and Lex! Have some more Kool aid . . and relax . .
1:46:00 1:46:00 1:46:00 Z-row One of You are one too . . oroZ.;¿
Once CIA always CIA. No one ever leaves. The role may change, but I think it’s obvious to most that ole Andy is tasked with repairing the image of the spooks.
😂😂😂 oh no he would NEVER lie to "who"???
CIA needs to be dismanled! They are out of control for the gouverment!!
One thing I heard a CIA operative say is, there is "No such thing as former CIA."
its sounds catchy so it must be true.
@@minibobber ask a Marine if they were "formerly" a Marine.
@@renaissanceredneck3695my friend says former Marine but he felt duped for fighting in Iraq..the propaganda was strong back then
thats simply not true theres a former CIA agent that lives in my town his whole identity is being a former CIA member lol
@@vibes24osrs you apparently missed the point. Yes, there are people that are former employees of the CIA, and yet most still maintain their contacts with the agency, and will do favors for their former employer, just search for "Anderson+Cooper+CIA". But yes, technically you're correct.
Lex did just an amazing job interviewing Mr. Bustamonte, I’ve heard probably eight or nine interviews with him and Lex asked the most probing and interesting questions which Andrew seem to have trouble answering some but I’m very proud of Lex doing such a great job asking probing questions I’ve been a listener and love this podcast almost since it’s inception and the growth in his ability to interview is clearly apparent in my estimation. Keep doing what you do Lex I believe you have one of the most important platforms out there for conversation, and from what I’ve seen, always acting in good faith, love for his fellow man and optimism.
ever wondered why this cia guy is wandering around every second channel just at this moment, with the talking points he brings up?
Too obvious he has had no idea what to ask. He missed almost every junction. But first of all you need to know the infinite numbers of rooms and boxes that are. Or could be out of the blue. America can't win. They don't know the game.
@@JamesBrown-ux9ds Ok Mr Wizard 😂😂👎
This video pops up on my auto play at least 3x a week and I close it immediately
As a citizen of 78 years old, I haven't trusted government since November 1963. Lots of people in my generation think this more and more . Corruption has grown in this country as it has in every government throughout time.
but was there a good time at all?
Before the criminals showed us who they were.
But it's your generation making the rules right now. And have been for a while.
: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin.
78?😮
I like that Lex always has prepared questions but also goes off script when he's interested. He's the perfect AI.
lol
@Melvin Deeply He told Zuckerberg, “a lot of people dislike you, some may even say hate you”.
"Off script" Lex is the best. We want to see him engaged in the conversation enough to forget he has an audience. I believe the best has yet to come here. He is a butterfly. ♥️
🤣🤣
🤣
Ive woken up to this video for the past 200 days. I can almost recite it.
Really enjoy these conversations, thanks Lex and Co. Always fascinating and interesting 😎 Equally grateful for all professionals who give their time for everyone to appreciate 🙏🏻 Keep pushing !
He has an amazing ability to sound so certain and so knowledgeable about things he was entirely (and predictably) wrong about.
Like the US trying to seek diplomatic solutions to abducted citizens. I lol’d at that one
@brentm9848 do you have any sources that can validate this? (Serious question)
That is how people like him earn a living. There are many of his kind out there.
This guy is a salesman for US interests and stated intentions. He's a clever and highly intelligent mind manipulator and I would not trust him with a toothpick. The US is going through a remarkable moral conflict within itself. It says "democracy and freedom" while it parlays with the worst examples of non-democratic regimes worldwide. The mantra is that the ends must justify the means at any cost. They are embedded in a truly immense moral vacuum where principles are exchanged for expedient so blithely and often; so conflicted and removed from truth, that it's hard to comprehend what they stand for anymore. If only they did what they said. The real reason they don't is because their moral compass has been so overrun by the military imperative that it's impossible anymore to know what is real and what they truly value. This is 'Orwell' written in the language of cubic dollars, the lies of the US government, while at the cost of the lives of the propagandized and indentured governments. War is a terrible thing, but we don't mind, if we get the result we want - this is what they are saying. Ukraine is the plaything of the hegemonic interests of the US as it faces down Russia while it invokes its worn-out platitudes for an expedient.
like any sociopath liar ... he is just another Wayne Simmons, not even a good one ... I have no idea how he tricked Lex to get on his podcast
The last thing I'm going to do is trust anything CIA agent says
When the cia agent is telling you the opposite is true of what the official media is telling you then you listen.
All information is good information. It is good to distrust and question everything. It's foolish to completely turn away someone's voice because of their past.
@@drewhuckabay3425 You probably read through all your spam emails dont you?
@@CockSmasher-xw4px lol
@@CockSmasher-xw4px😂😂😂
We've seen dozens of Lex interviews ~ all of them good, this one the best ~ 4 hours well spent ~ thanks for a challenging world view... even when we weren't so sure it was right.
the way that he neither confirmed nor denied remote viewing and then gave that "hey, according to einstein's theory, anything's possible" felt quite revealing actually
Now you understand
I know an ex intelligence operative, it’s not a question of if they can access your electronic information and devices, it’s how fast and how easy. For example iPhones are all a 3 digit number/ prompt in the emergency call screen from accessing everything you’ve ever had on your phone, he had my phones entire history pulled up in less than 5 seconds
@@DeadStreamOrganicsLmao this guy supposedly trusted you with top secret information, that if publicly shared could lead him to charges of treason, and here you are blabbing in a YT comment. that poor bastard needs to pick better friends, if he’s not just something you made up in your head to sound interesting in the absence of intellect
@@DeadStreamOrganics1. The guy was probably lying about being an “ex intelligence operative”. 2. The “3-digit code on the emergency call screen” trick was patched after iOS 6.1. 3. “Accessing everything you’ve ever had on your phone” is a broad statement that doesn’t provide any detail. Access what? Your app history, call logs, messages? Or do you literally mean “everything”? Because if you’re implying “everything”, then you’re also implying your iPhone keeps a local data log of every action that’s ever happened on your iPhone… The immense amount of data that would amount to, either wouldn’t fit on your iPhone storage, or at least would be extremely noticeable. 4. If such an exploit were to exist, hackers would have found it. It would be public, and Apple would have patched it. There’s no way around that. 5. The US government wouldn’t need to access your phone inperson to view or review any data that might be relevant to them. Your internet traffic is monitored, your calls are monitored, your messages are monitored. They don’t need a “secret code” to bypass a lock screen. The issue of time is only relevant to encrypted information & communications. But even still, such a thing as a “secret code” would be impossible to keep secret.
One year later, it has luckily not played out as Andrew predicted. Germany survived winter, the Ukrainian South has not fallen, Odessa is still free and the war has not come to Moldova.
But RUS is keep shelling at Odessa harbor.
He might give you some true informations, but i think this is false programming. Still an agent as you say, so who knows what they are about here.
Well, it's been a bit since your comment and Ukraine isn't doing well. They are begging for more money. No money? Then credit? There is talk of putting troops on the ground. People are worried about a draft because it's going "so well" for Ukraine. Nah. We are being fed lies about how that war is going. Fortunately for the North American governments, Gaza is getting scary spicy. A great distraction from Ukraine and the taxpayers' money being laundered through these wars for our political elites and their oligarchies and whatever foreign power has money to grease our government or wants grease money from America. Have we all forgotten how many of these nations hate us. Hate our freedom from religion and our freedom to be whatever religion we want. North America isn't a cou try any more it's a corporation, and it's run like a slum lord runs his rental units. Ukraine can't win this war the way zelensky is demanding. The fact that a cease fire, truce, and negotiations are not a priority. Why? All we get is propaganda. Gaza? That war has been raging for thousands of years. Both sides are willing to be rabid, out of control monsters to each other. There is noway that your everyday moron knows enough true information to be cheering for a Jewish genocide or a Palestinian genocide. Hamasaki is using the ppl as a shield while the kill members on the other side. So should Isreal just lay down and let Hamasaki kill them in events like oct 7th? Of course not. At this point, both sides have done horrifying crimes against humanity to each other. For ppl in month America to act so sure, so cavalier about that conflict like Amy of us have a real clue about it or even have a right to tell other countries what to do. Meanwhile North American citizens are going to freeze this winter, starve, lose their homes, etc, and our governments are more worried about their bank accounts than the fact that how they are governing is destroying our nation's. It's slimy and disgusting, and as long as we keep buying the woke narrative the way the politicians want us to things will only get worse. Humans thrive under boundaries, borders, structure, routine, certainties in our life but woke is robbing us of all of that while fixing nothing.
True that tbh, but I won't fault his train of thought at the time. Plus Russia has the upper hand rn and Odessa is still in their sights
He was right about Israel
Andrew: I am trained by the most competent spy agency in the world to lie to people and pretend that I am their friend and giving them something they want, but I actually have ulterior motives and am willing to do or say practically anything to achieve those motives. And even though I am not longer employed by the CIA, I still enjoy doing that in my personal life. Everyone: But he's not doing that with us!!!
nice. He's a fucking sociopath.
For fucking real dude, can't trust this lifer one bit.
😆
100%
facts
I felt you a bit overwhelmed, Fridman. I loved the interview. Thx for your hard work.
Who else doesn't believe this guy?
😂
I don’t believe him but I suspect that he wants me to not believe him so therefore I believe him. Or maybe not.
This kid knows nothing
He’s delusional
Say he speaks 6% truth. Just 6% Imagine that
I was thinking “wow what a likable guy” until he started talking about the NSA. Then I remembered- Oh yeah, this guy is a fed 😂
A rule of thumb is that there is no such thing as "ex CIA"
Yes exactly - we are ignorant, and he is on the side of the law 😂 Jesus was a criminal in the eyes of law
I'd be real careful about lumping everyone onto an either/or paradigm. There are always exceptions and gradients. It's hard to tell who's who these days.
@@susanlorraineknox5780 ok Karen
2:33 yes a private court, along with with having the knowledge of what some politician is said privately to use against them. Sometimes it's not about prosecution it's about leverage and you can bet this guy knows I agree with the original poster the sky is likeable but he is definitely drank the Kool-Aid that we should trust these agencies as if they haven't had an agenda to be able to drag in billions and billions of dollars for their operations. And they need Congress to approve a lot of that dark money what a better way to do it than to read into their metadata which is already been proven that the organizations have done this. One last thing they don't need to take it to the courts and have the courts arrest people they just need to say we don't like this person's view take them off Twitter or X right like we have already seen proven again that if they don't like your views they will remove you from social media while the government just hints at the fact that this person is a bad person.
Loving Mike Baker’s new disguise, almost couldn’t tell it was him
🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Hahahah I love you man. I was losing hope. Thanks man I really mean it
🤣
Mike baker leaves his phone at home and takes an old dumb car woody wagon to disappear in the woods. This dudes full on let the government spy on you we would never turn it against you….
I absolutely love your work! Thank you for listening to all sides!
This is an amazing conversation. Thank you for this!
His "moral flexibility" really showed when he talked about Snowden and mass surveillance.
Indeed, I also think that for the majority of the people 'Snowden' was a wake up call instead of a bleep on their radar.
Victor Jans….you’ve just been put on 17 additional Fed lists.
@@sb75ification trust me, I'm on all of them
His "bass-line" was squirming.
"Its much more sensible to be a silent servant humbly carrying the burden of public service". Sounds legit. I wish some of our tax money would silently and humbly give us some health care and public education.
He finally found his dream job. Working for CIA as an ex-CIA.
Lol🤷🏻♀️
ex cia is code for CIA agent for life
haha
The interviewee is giving his thoughts on the possibility of the outcome of the war bad or not.
There's a word for such a guy... can't quite remember, plz help me. TRAITOR!!!
Thank you Lex, definitely using 'pragmatic pessimism' I love how the dynamic of the conversation changed with your ease.
I was asked to take the MBTI and WPI when applying for a job requiring close partnership with a colleague. They wanted to make sure we would work well together to reduce chance of turnover. We are going on 7 years and married - The interviewer was invited to our wedding :) I certainly think there is validity to using the MBTI as a data point for compatibility. The WPI (workplace inventory) that we took in addition to the MBTI determines your workplace style and mentality. Compatibility in working together, whether in careers or in personal lives, is just as valuable and important. I think using the two tests together would offer a far better insight.
Never thought I'd see two spies from opposing countries talking to each other on a podcast. The world we live in!
😂😂😂 .. best comment here!!
LOL
There is a story where you had to be the survivor and it was a contest so only soldiers entered this contest This contest was on a really really rugged wild mountain track with wild weather and snow and one had to hunt to catch their tucker their food and hike and miss landmines and then get back to the base and be the 1st first back and be the winner and than you would get to become an elite soldier a spy or whatever or the equivalent of the green Berrets. Anyway the contestant the brave soldier would be dropped off in the wild at the beginning of this extremely crazy and unpredictable corse with just a compass and weapon and moderately warm clothing and a tarp that could be easily carried also a very sketchy map and then get driven to the drop off point where the soldier the contestant would have to hike back to base the best way he could. The track was made so that the soldiers the contestant would enivatably have to go over the mountain and along a ridge to get back to base and they were given the bare essentials in order to survive or sometimes die as it was a harrowing journey. They sent the soldiers out one by one so when one got back usually after a month then they would send out the next contestant the next soldier. Anyway this one soldier came back only after one day and one night and the judges looked really surprised as absolutely no one had finished their quest the corse so quickly or usually did not return within a month so the judges the commanders were like um "CONGRADULATIONS augh um we think... but we can't work out why you finished the hike the corse augh that by the way usually takes a month and mostly more than a month to return and you soldier are back the next day...how " the judges asked and the soldier "how did you manage to do this "? the judges were confused as they asked hesitantly. A sly smile came over the soldiers the winners face. If your reading this story have you worked out how the soldier the winner how he managed and how he returned back to base only after a day and night and so efficiently or and quickly ?? "Like I stated" the dude soldier said and then ...a sly smile returned and came over his face as the judges shuffled their feet and he said " well i didn't really want to get frozen out there where its minus ten degrees and I heard that most soldiers died trying to make it back to the finish line first so he said I will tell you so he went on to say "well on the way to the drop off point I started thinking about my chance of winning and at this point may I remind you gentlemen um officers that you said " first back" so I thought about that and my survival chances and spoke to my driver about it and he told me he had dreamed of doing the corse and becoming a top gun and a hero but he said he knew from past exercises and training drills that his chances of even finishing the corse were slim and he said he was" pretty much a failure and then the driver went on to tell me how he didn't know if he would ever even get up the nerve to speak and it was at this stage of the conversation I offered him a smoke as he the driver finished his sentence..." to any gir.... " "So in my mind at this moment I assessed his life and thought yeah mate your not really soldier material and your life sounds so depressing and it was at that piont that I knew how I was going to win and get back to the finish line first and how I would be certain to win" said the soldier and he stated and it was at that moment that I pulled out my knife and as swiftly as I could i mustered all my strength and all my inner gall and put aside my guilt and then without another thought to my fellow driver I plunged the knife deeply into the drivers body and I managed to kill him quickly and cleanly thus I won " he looked satisfied and said ". I am the winner ....correct. ????!! I hope you enjoyed this story. I wonder how many readers guessed the ending before the end ?? The END.
Lmao
@@AB-wf8ek I never claimed to be a good story writer but it does make one wonder about the stakes and the outcome and the justification. The dude was made for killing I guess. I just got fascinated by the tale.
This guy is like a cool youth pastor for the cia
He taught Bobby Hill how to skateboard 🤣
Lol
did you listen to what he was saying
@@julius333333 yeah he sounds more like a Pro Putin realist
Yeah except not cool. Spouting bs
That interview was so Great! Thank you to both of you!! Now I'm going to find the Joe Rogan interview you did. 😃
Great interview thank you!
Great to see an ex and a current Cia ops chatting together... the psy ops is next level.
Yep
This guy is a total liar
@A D guess
Both POS's!
why do you think lex has affiliations with intelligence?
As soon as he started talking about the NSA and trading all freedom for a false sense of security, he showed his cards.
Truth
100%
Speaks Chinese, and, can dance like Astaire, overseas
Sounds like a Cia commercial rather then an interview huh
Once a spook, always a spook
People in this comment section are sooo smart. Like, I can't take it guys. You're so intelligent. I saw your 100th comment about "former CIA agent is still CIA" and all the other clever things you spotted to see through the facade. Congratulations! I've prepared a golden star.
This is one of my favorite ones. He actually broke into your heart here, and that's not why I liked it so much... I just liked the truth from it. You do SO well dude by staying as un-biased as possible... In some VERY passionate conversations. Kudos to you both!
"Our disinformation campaign will be complete when everything the American citizen thinks they know, is untrue". William Casey CIA director ( way back when)
Yeah and Mike Pompeo’s more recent comment “we lie, we cheat, we steal….” When referring to his stint heading the CIA. Their resume reads like the right hand guy of Satan himself.
They're campaign must be close to complete then. Pretty much everyone thinks. Race mixing, pedophilia, the moon landing, and germ theory are true and moral. So job done.
What a creepy quote huh?
There’s no proof this quote is even real. A staffer claimed she heard it in a meeting with Him And President Reagan.
A year later... this guy was pretty wrong on Ukraine and Europe.
man was just thinking that. intelligence is only worth so much
imagine an ex cia LOL
His assessment is completely baseless and ungrounded, yet he spewed that out with full confidence 😂
Yep I was just about to comment that this didn't age so well lol
@@Vinemaple41 the "europe will freeze" part is especially hilarious
Lex you have told me a lot I never click on your videos but fall asleep listening to something else and end up listening to you great work on hacking KZhead. I do enjoy your content though thank you
Lex you do a great show. Thankyou Sir.
Man this video and this guy’s predictions didn’t pan out…
Yeah this pod just auto played to me after a Joe Rogan video and his confidence on south Ukraine by fall was odd. I think with my personal bias I thought, at the time, that Ukraine would hold onto the south.
"western propaganda is basically the same as Russian propaganda" was just as laughable... What a bs 'expert', lex should have him back on and just replay parts of this...
They are now!
Guys an idiot and doesn't know anything he keeps talking about the lend lease act since the invasion not a dollar or military equipment has been sent through the lend lease they owe us nothing this guy is a clown.
@@MelbourneMeMewell, all governments lie. We the people, are a means to an end. Politicians are strangers who enjoy the trappings of power
It’s amazing how long this man can talk and how open he seems but still… didn’t really tell us anything we couldn’t already find out with a google search. These CIA guys are CIA for life
And his whole speech about the US liking to talk pro democracy, but are not willing to put real boots on the ground when democratic nations are attacked is insane. He used the example of Afghanistan, Ukraine and Hong Kong: Afghanistan was a debacle invasion and occupation that was mismanaged and doomed to fail and should never have happened in the first place. Was a massive black budget outlet to pay god knows what interests. Hong Kong was China's sphere of influence and part of China. I hate seeing them go down and support their freedom, but it is not for us to dictate. Ukraine was something we forced the hands of Russia on as everyone in US State knows that a neutral Ukraine was the only feasible position. When the CIA got involved in the coup that threw out the government in 2014, Russia was going to react militarily. When Ukraine broke the Minsk 2 accords and continued to shell The Donabas and Lugansk People’s Republics and when Ukraine was gearing up to join NATO, then Russia was going to act. Ukraine gives too good a staging position to invade Russia and severl other reasons, it would be like China overthrowing Canada by subterfuge and allying with them bringing in weapons, equipment and soldiers in a military alliance. The US wouldn't stand for it either. I love Lex but he talks like the Russians are propagandized when what he described them believing is considerbly more true amd real thn what Westerners know and think about this war.
This was most likely PR stuff or psyops. You give people just enough to keep their interest and to distinguish doubts.
To EMS: exactly: the Che Guevara looking like guy talks a lot but nothing real interesting.... Except maybe his theory of Putin winning the war in Ucraine! Is there a scientifical definition of winning???? The common sense can evaluate the winning of the war in terms of human life losses, territorial gains, economical costs,short/ long term benefits...... Assessing that Putin is winning is a bold affirmation not very well supported by empirical data... Of course Putin can grab some territory and declare victory. But how about the economical consequences and the tens of thousands Russian soldiers who died and tens of thousands soldiers wounded and crippled for life..... How about the NATO being much more powerful and united against Putin ???? Putin will claim victory but who will be fooled by one more lie coming out of the mouth of a criminal???????
“Former” 😂😂
@@georgiypotulov23 Felt exactly the opposite about him. Put perceptions ate based on our unexposed reality, not truth.
Learning everyday day. I appreciate all you do never stop. Love you always truly…
this is a difficult discussion and thanks for doing this podcast!
Snowden is literally the definition of doing the right thing in the face of incredible adversity. 👏
Yeah bull shit Snowden is in Russia rn with US secrets Snowden did the right thing the wrong way he tried to leverage info to get sanctuary and although it worked he's fucked later if we ever captured a Russian with info we would just trade lmao
What Snowden did was brave and people needed to know but the execution of getting the info out was sloppy. The news "blacked" out information but you could still see the info. Snowden should be in America living free but the way the release was handled put "American assets" at risk.
@@jennifermommy9373o
Snowden is controlled opposition. 100%. Do you really think we would have had such mainstream coverage on him. Although they portrayed it as negative. He was getting paid for an acting gig.. what does he care. Snowden is a made for TV character. Period. If they didn't want us to hear Snowden, WE'D NEVER KNOW . We only see and hear what They want us to see & hear. I can't believe grown men and women haven't ALL figured this out. It's so ridiculous, the amount of SHIT people believe if heard on the news. Like the moon landing 6
@@moodybugg-2098 I Definately believe that. There is No Snowden altho there Was an entity tht Was a Whistle Blower... on tht subject. The character portrayed is a job for an actor possibly living out of country but is more likely some merman embedded in a community who never is in the general public as a norm... Or whatever. The Original Snowden carries a different name and in my opinion is still working for some part of the behind the scenes "good" military & is protected by a different identity in return for his work. And I Also think he lives here in the US. While the made for TV version is exactly what you described. Lk I sd... it's my gut opinion but I honestly feel alot of ppl out there feel the same. Sending 💌 Love 💖Light ✨️ & Blessings ✝️ Take Care
This dude is nuts! His whole world view is scary, and that's why the intelligence community is so dangerous.
Finally some not worshiping this spy. As if he might not be telling the truth on.
@@rebeccab.2270people believed it like the gospel at the time. They worship Rogan and Fridman, etc. He could not have been more wrong. What a dangerous putz.
Right off the bat we learn: Mossad(Israel) will do anything. The CIA are competing for "business" with their "customer"(president) and Trump was a problem because he wasn't interested in the CIAs stock and trade of dirty tricks, so the CIA started going against the president.
@@richy2258explain your point
Often time the things we want to be true so badly are absolutely wrong. To the point of disbelieving reality. I am not sure which part you don’t like about what this guy is saying. However, “Russia is winning” is true. He is right about Americans not understanding the implications of freedom of speech. He is right about the lend lease act. He is objectively right about many things that I don’t personally like to hear.
I feel like this guy is being as truthful as he can
Absolutetly love the timestamps!
Watching this video 7 months after release and laughing,becouse all his predictions was worthless
Same here. Eight months later 😂
Predictions can be wrong no one knows the future. Apart from those prediction he was spot on
I know right?! 😂
Even Edgar Cayce didn't predict this right...!
He was a spy, not a war expert, what did you expect
This dude is still an active operator. His defense of the NSA is ludicrous.
I skipped most interview but glad the bs is getting calles out
@@veprk8662 it's a great interview and he is obviously a very talented intelligent human but he just is so un trust worthy. He basically tells the listener to not trust him
Came here just to say this. His take on Snowden was ridiculous. This motherfucker was planted on this show lol
Lex's handler
@@jamiewoodstock1006 they absolutely would.
This has been a wonderful Communion !
Brilliant Interview. People are lucky to listen to this.
Don’t trust a guy that defends national surveillance. Especially when he says those that care about privacy are a threat & shouldn’t have a say in the topic. “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety”~ Ben Franklin
people always say this, but how realistic is it when your peer competitors don't do that? when they don't have to be restrained? especially since the actual real damage to the populace from these surveillance programs is actually close to 0. can I ask you when the last time government surveillance negatively affected your life? meta data collected was used against you?
Just because Mr Franklin said it, doesn't make it true or at least true all the time. That quote is parroted out ad nauseam without much thought. Second, just because someone disagrees with the refrain, doesn't necessarily make them untrustworthy.
he also said the president is the number one customer. that was just weird.
@@trinydex I’m pro life & have had multiple friends of mine approached by FBI due to their political beliefs One because he was pro life and another because he posted a meme about Jan 6th. It does have real world effects
your friend got a visit for posting a meme, on the internet I presume. that has nothing to do with these clandestine programs. that's called open source intelligence. your other friend who is pro life didn't get a visit just because they were pro life.
Found Lex when he was on Rogan's podcast and can say this is now my #1 watched/listen too thing on the internet. Amazing questions and calmness can have me listening for hours
Welcome to the 🤓 group. Haha
Same. Lex is the best for knowledgeable pods.
He's good!!!
I watch this more now too
Wow!! Self respect man What a great person
Man Andrew is a smart dude. . He makes a lot of sense, he doesnt just speak clearly & logically, he speaks so you really understand his point of view.
This guy is a perfect representative of the u.s "government".. 20% true 80% I'm looking you in the eye and just believe what I say.
Show me on the doll where Andrew hurt you
Every good lie has to include some measure of truth.
@@DBFIU HA!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing this...
Don't be shocked to find out that the CIA PR agent has the CIA bots in the comments designed by AI to present a group of people who actually believe his BS.
Well played Lex, we finally got to the ultimate Turing test, can a covert CIA agent spot a covert AI. You won't fool me, R2D2
This exactly. This "agent" is an obvious disinfo. Plant. He's full of it. And when he find out how corrupt the see. I. A. really is. He'll just say well my upper ups.misled me. What a waste of podcast.
Who is who though, really? Results may be shocking.
all answers can be found if you watch "this is my conversation with a goose. or is it a duck?" podcast best 2 minutes i ever watched, felt like 2h, fascinating
CIA agents motivated to make trouble around world in order to keep their jobs. Now I understand. No difference from military industrial complexes. These people shape our international politics, which is quite dangerous.
Don't be shocked to find out that the CIA PR agent has the CIA bots in the comments designed by AI to present a group of people who actually believe his BS.
To me, one of the most absolutely essential terms in describing and recounting analytical thinking is 'empirical'. There has been an acceptance of parroting and personal, emotionally based, AND biased opinion being taken as truthful and factual. I admire his narrative and delivery.
Great Interview.
Yes the NSA is focused only on threats to national security. Except their idea of national security is protecting their power not the security of American citizens. Any American citizen who threatens their power is considered a "national Security" threat. Even if that citizen is democratically elected representative.
What elected officials did they do that to
@@Zultzify Pay attention, clown. And have somebody change your diapers.
Yes, any American that threatens the power our goverment holds will be considered a national security because ot can fuck infrastructure up. How is that a hard thing to understand?
@@Zultzify Dont be an idiot, it is public court record that the FBI withheld evidence from the FISA could to wiretap a presidential candidate. The same FBI that raided that person this week.
@@Zultzify No idea, but I think one of them lives in Florida at Mar-a-Lago.
Crazy how autoplay when I fall asleep this video ends up playing.
So trippy. I woke up to this video today
Same. Over and over again
This one and the one with Paul Rosolie. My dream alters when Paul describes the Amazon jungle and what contains in there such as deadly animals and tribespeople etc
And this interview was almost 4 hours long and an ad never interrupted it?! Yeah. Ok.
Same
Great show one of the best four hours of my life
Red flag right away, an interview with a CIA agent lol
Love how he went complete poker face with the JFK questions and the drug questions. I'm betting Bustamante is 100% still in the CIA.
100%
Exactly, there's no way he's not still in the alphabet institution.
I’m actually liking Bustamante a bit. 🥸
Doubt he’d put his face out there on a podcast with millions of viewers if he still works as an operator
When he claimed ignorance about the drug stuff with Seale & Bush I got a strong lying vibe.
Andrew was mostly consistent except when he said he was okay with a surveillance state without the permission of Congress... "I'm okay with the NSA having all my passwords for that safety." He kept speaking of empirical evidence. There's no empirical evidence that the mass surveillance saved any lives and that the mass surveillance would have stopped previous attacks like 9/11. Snowden may be a blip, but his reasoning was far more sound than the way Andrew made it seem in this interview.
It is Andrew’s job to talk Snowden down like he was a “blip” and nothing more. This is a PR campaign for the CIA.
Agreed.
He was speaking of “empirical” evidence
Good point lad
Agreed. The more I hear him talking the more I am convinced the CIA is an evil organisation as a whole.
the reality a year after the interview is somewhat different from the predictions in the video
Sounds good... Just go with the flow... Provide what needs provided
Snowden also tried to run to US allies, but here in Norway the pressure was to great to deny asylum. The truth is that few countries were brave enough to accept him.
Right? Doing that to me seems like a quick way to get seal team 6'd
💯👍🏼
Because all these countries are beholden to the United States!
True. Its pretty simple: countries that have positive relationships with the US won’t risk those by giving asylum to an supposed „enemy of the state“, so of course he had to flee to countries which are enemies of the US.
I have lived 18 years in the UAE. His comment about Snowden was a red flag. His praise about the UAE Police State to solve a fender bender was the nail in the coffin. His credibility is ZERO. I call BS!
He couldn't be more nakedly obsessed with totalitarianism. If there's ever a war in the US, this guy will go full Hans Landa
he is an institutionalized thug all the way. these types are responsible for ALL evil in the world. his charm does not fool me one bit.
I enjoyed and felt trust until trust of the police state. How many times do we know of where they abused that power within the USA in just the last 10 years. Hell look at since trump got elected. The state Intel agencies with their msm have been sitting on the scales so obviously. We know because if you investigate any suspected false flag, lie or fabrication long enough you will either not find enough evidence it is beyond any doubt true....or 1. you will not find enough evidence to prove anything definitively or 2. You will find the evidence that shows there is a fabrication such as architects& engineers for truth of. 9/11, as well as the simultaneous collapse of building 7 in the same way which are mathematical impossible. Or JFK & rfk both.got shot from both sides yet the official conclusion of the government say for both Kennedy's that it was a lone gunman. This evidence doesn't prove anything except that we don't know what really happened. If the government agreed that.this evidence leaves the investigaton unsolved it would be more understandable than their insistence that these cases are 100% solved & we must accept their conclusions. How the help do you trust that?
Yes, because all people who defend the USA end up in Moscow. "Red Flag"? Are you serious? I worked in the NSA. Snowden's nonsense was a load of lies.
Andrew is realy smart, loved it.
He may be smart. But he’s either completely naive or he’s intentionally betraying the trust of the American people by purposefully misrepresenting what intel agencies have done and continue to do.
Please have this guy back! I want to hear what his take is now?
The way this dude played Lex in the first two hours to establish rapport was astounding. 100% still in the CIA.
I think Lex let him in..Lex is NO FOOL....
@@johnlee-kz9vo exactly, Lex wants US to make an opinion
@@johnlee-kz9vo yes. Yes, he is a fool
@@johnlee-kz9vo Lex is not a fool but on occasion he does fanboy and he does make a fool of himself. He makes a fool of himself sometimes the way he’s incredibly biased about the Ukraine and watch the interview with Rick Rubin. It was ridiculous. He fanboyed through the whole interview. There weee a ton of comments by people that were disappointed in the way he was gushing all over Rubin.
Nothing like Lex interviewing an Ex CIA agent playing in the background while I sleep. Such a weirdly comforting episode 🤣
Same
I usually fall to sleep listening to Richie Allen Show , but have a new go to for his nights off ,had the amazon guy on first , yes strangely comforting
I thought I was all alone in my "weirdness"!!! LOL
yeah maybe a little half lie here and there, while you sleep. ukraine being indebted to america, sure yeah. but the terms of that debt is so generous. 20 years until first payment and no interest accumulated??? that is more of a grant rather than a LOOMING DEBT. and obviously ukranians would prefer debt rather than war and conquest.
I did the same unknowingly. 👍🏽
Great and educational podcast, if u want an inside and discretionary view of intelligence agency, it's good.
I love that, doubling down on the things you are good at and not doing the things that you Aren’t. This might have been a fit for me if life had played out that way. You are awesome Andrew!
I have even less trust in the CIA, NSA, FBI etc.. after this. Good Interview.
When someone leaves the "Clowns in America" they dont actually leave. They will always be a clown even if not officially on paper. I dream of the day JFK's vision of dissolving them comes true. The small amount of job loss is economically negligible and the benefit to citizens worldwide enormous.
@@cupofsadge8359 The clown hairdo is in full display lol... Can you imagine having this guy as a colleague?..making meetings longer with horsesh*t arguments. His prospective on the world is just as expected. Unfortunately, Lex seems to also be a clown man.
Same. This guy was chosen by the agency to do this show as a PR campaign. They know their reputation has never been lower, and rightfully so.
spot on. andrew bustamante's is %100 a shill for the intelligence community. The fact he is ignorant to the intelligence branch of govt. being weaponized via politicians makes me doubt how smart he is or if he ever "left"..
Yeah, this guy seemed affable enough, but he's a dyed-in-the-wool fed. At least when you look at Mike Baker, you know what he is.
This guy has been trained well that's for sure. He delivered all of that like a pro. Almost no signs of deception or anything....almost.
As if you can really believe anything this guy says….he is from the govt…..or at least just an actor for the govt….saying scripted shit in a convincing way
You're referring to Fridman right?
Yep real masters of deception always hide lies within the truth ;)
yeah yeah, you're an expert at spotting spies! you must be a child prodigy too! Can you enlighten us how you figured it all out, what are the tells??
@@TheFreddieFoo The fact that he's a commie and from the CIA.
I like that wherever this guy Andrew Bustamante goes, he's able to convince no one about his organisation, no one believes him atleast in the comment section.
I so appreciate these conversations!! You both are great people!! Stay connected to nature and know you can do anything!
Looking at Assange, it seems a wise decision for Snowden to go to a "enemy state"
Sad but true 😔
this guy wouldn't be able to even breath without permission. this podcast is bs.
also, he asked for asylum in germany but was denied. that is the real sad thing.
@@robertjulesyoung9994 It may be a recruitment outreach for the CIA. Bustament is really sharp.
Snowden is not in a maximum security prison why because he’s in Russia what would you do the answer is obvious
Let me first say I found Andrew fascinating and agreed with a lot of his perspectives... except one... Andrew's argument on surveillance... His value proposition is that safety is more valuable than maintaining constitutional rights. This is where I (and many citizens) would disagree... To me... The whole point of having a military and intelligence apparatus is to protect not just the physical safety of the citizens of this country, but also to protect their rights. Most soldiers I know will talk that way... They're fighting for the rights of US citizens. We send men and women to die with that mentality. So clearly we believe as a nation that it's worth sacrificing lives to protect. Mass surveillance was itself a direct attack on the 4th amendment right of every US citizen. To me that's just as bad as physically attacking US citizens. It's for the same reason that Andrew said the US sees foreign data collection as a hostile offense. I'd argue it's worth the risk of missing another major attack on the US if it meant maintaining our basic rights as citizens... First of all, it's not like they don't have 1,000 other tools at their disposal. I'm ok with it being a little harder for them to do their jobs. Because at the end of the day... Without rights, what the hell is there to even protect?
I couldn't agree more.
I agree with you in terms of values, but I think you misunderstood his point. He wasn’t stating that he values safety more than rights; he was stating that the UAE value safety more than rights because their situation is different than that of the US. Like you said, in the US, it’s a discussion of whether to give up rights to prevent another major attack, and I agree that it’s probably not worth the cost; but from the sound of it, in the UAE, the discussion is perhaps whether to give up rights to prevent many major attacks (basing this on what he said, not my own knowledge). I just thought this was a useful distinction. It’s important to remember that the situation in the US could change, which warrants continual conversation around such topics, such as the evolving conversation around gun control. And it’s important to remember that there’s a false dichotomy to avoid here. Certain policies and technologies can be adopted or disallowed to meet specific goals. It’s not like our choice is “surveillance state” or “non-surveillance state.” But like Andrew said, hopefully the US won’t reach a point at which we’d have to consider reevaluating our priorities on this matter.
youre wrong. "values" are for regular people, in hight stakes politics and/or attacks, criminal/terrorist groups etc there are none
The ends always seem to justify the means when it comes to the gov’t controlling the people instead of being controlled by them
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."-Benjamin Franklin We are going to find that out the hard way if it continues unchecked
Enjpy the interviewsc Lex, it's nice to see more of your humerus side.
Can confirm, first few days of basic training are like shell shock, then when you leave basic training it’s like leaving a second home.
There's something I don't quite trust about Andrew. He seemed really sharp and I was loving his dispassionate analysis of situations but as the podcast went on, I began trusting him less and less. So many questions Lex asked, didn't really get answered, and his opinion on NSA mass surveillance and the need for us to feel safe are major red flags.
Clearly part of CIAs PR department
The whole Ukraine segment on his part was a total bs.
Exactly. His NSA defense was...something. We are seeing in real time what an out of control FBI, DOJ and likely NSA can do. It doesn't require a whole new "secret police, secret court", etc. This guy is either a fanboi or part of the PR effort.
@@andrewgusak123ua are you aware of your obvious bias given you have UA in name and UA flag? because if you did you would've known that your opinion on this matter is worth nothing.
I had exactly the same feeling
His point of view on secrecy is exactly what I would expect to hear from a CIA operative
Makes no sense lmao. Bias as hell. Seems like a smart guy though
Lex Fridman, one year later, is Ukraine winning ?
The way the government has gone after Jan 6, protesters makes me disbelieve what he said regarding NIA- other than that - I like this guy and will checkout his podcast- it’s the “perspective” part that got me hooked.
This dude is definitely deeply engrained with his service to this country. It has him with some heavy blinders on. Definitely makes you realize you can't trust anyone in the government
I mean... he has every eyeball in the CIA and shadow govt watching what he says. You wouldn’t talk shit either lmao
His service to the CIA, not the country.
@@highestpariah true. Just seems like a decent guy at the core but the more he talks the more I see he's been compromised and won't ever see things any other way.
@@solefood7477 Absolutely he seems like a good guy and I’m sure he would treat anyone who came into his home with the utmost hospitality and respect - none of that changes the huge bloody skid marks that the CIA has left on our country.
@@alexbrewer3675 country, actually
I remember Lex and Joe talking and asking themselves if an agent ever came on their podcast to do the propaganda.... Well, here is your answer..
Don't be shocked to find out that the CIA PR agent has the CIA bots in the comments designed by AI to present a group of people who actually believe his BS.
I was thinking that too. he was verrrry good though...
Haha propaganda 😆 Such a dismissive word from someone who wishes Russia would fall. LONG LIVE RUSSIA 🇷🇺 ✊✊✊✊
@@paulbarclay4114 80% of Russians agree with Russia and their power moves. I know first hand from speaking with people who actually lived in Russia and were born there! Whatever NATO country you're from has you super fooled.
@@paulbarclay4114 I really em talking to the wrong person. Wake tf up! Talk to real russians and not NATO based mfers
What a good little boy. I hope they gave him a treat
Oh my gosh, Ruby ridge, January 6ers. Knowing that you were in that system and denying that it is used to suppress opponents of the state leads me to believe you are still subject to them.
I love how he talks about the world letting ukraine, hong kong, and Afghanistan fall. But he fails to mention all the nations the cia intentionally destabilized in south america
this dude is basically like someone from the CIA hr department who they allow to spill generic info about them.. literally EVERYTHING he says and talks about can be learned by any civilian
His information about those three places is basically mental malware. There were no deaths in Hong Kong carried by the police, only by the protestors themselves, and luckily it is all on camera with ample context which is why I know is true. And, Ukraine is basically natzee central. Stepan Bandera is practically a deified martyr in Ukraine. 🙄
and he’s fully for NSA spying on everyone like the government wont grow even more intrusive and over-each like it inherently always does.
@Grayble's Gringus is the cia mostly white
@Grayble's Gringus exactly. Another token as a spokesperson for the agency. They arent going give a nonwhite person deep dark secrets.
Problem is some of NSA and CIA individuals view the bill of rights as a threat to national security.
Exactly
everything is a balance. freedom is very much the opposite of security. no one should say we don't need one or the other. there's a balance.
Seems you can count this fella in on that list given his thoughts on Snowden.
@@trinydex thats completely illogical. History teaches us quite the opposite in fact! Those who'd prefer security to freedom deserve neither! I find my security within my liberties because I am competent and capable just like the majority of Americans are as individuals. The more freedom I have the more security I can create for myself. The opposite is only true for the most downtrodden and unlikeable. People who can't support themselves and have no one willing to be charitable to them. A charitable person could give a homeless person 2 dollars, but if we expect the gov to support them 1- 1.75 is lost to corruption and inefficiency. Similar effects hold true outside of financial security. My firearms are far more likely to protect me than the ones carried by police in my own home! My ability to participate in whatever market I chose, communicate with who I like, ect. The opposite is only ever true for the lowest common denominator. Those LCDs make up the headlines that make the politicians look bad, and that's why the gov treats us like babies. School shooters make up a fraction of a percent of total homicides but people are gung ho as a MF to create overarching policy centered around those disastrous statistical anomalies.
@@cdiers26 you're actually historically wrong. for the majority of history, the benevolent dictator has provided more safety and more security for centuries worth of lives than unadulterated freedom. your example doesn't even pass the thought experimentals stage. there's lots of examples of modern government and even modern benevolent restrictive democracy (like Singapore and Israel), where the far majority of people enjoy great quality of life and enjoy limited liberties that enrich their lives all while maintaining great safety for their countrymen. I'm not saying America should shift to tyranny, I am saying that there are strategic concessions that have to be made by every country (that will be made regardless of how much noise you make) and the typical American response to such basic military and intelligence needs is really unhelpful and borderline silly. let's not forget these intelligence techniques were used against the British in the revolutionary war. these techniques were used against both sides in the civil war, etc etc. blindly beating a drum of liberty should be getting pretty culturally fatigued.
If I could ask Andrew one question, it would be, is he the top of the top? Or are there CIA agents that will blow him out of the water in terms of their craft and their intelligence?
He has popped lex’s bubble hard
This dudes stance on surveillance is exactly what I'd expect from a dude from the government. I could not trust him less
No wonder we have problems, is what I was thinking. These guys are way out of line.
Glad I'm not the only one yall this guy glows so bright I'm getting a tan...
@@TheSassygrasshopper he's so good at lying and blending in, yet every single person that watched this interview saw right through him. Including Lex😂
Some of his stuff is interesting but he was delivering his fair share of propaganda here. Lex wasn’t convinced.
I think he was saying that Ignorance is Strength. (The ignorance of the masses, of course.)
Bustamante is an extremely likable employee of the Cocaine Importation Agency and they should be so proud to have him.
Of course. Why wouldn’t they be? lol 😆
Capitalism's Invisible Army. Christians In Action.
@@timontide6404 Criminals In Action is good too, from the song C.I.A. by KRS One :)
Thanks Lex Fridman Very interesting