Is Population Collapse A Real Risk? - Stephen J. Shaw
Stephen J. Shaw is a data scientist and filmmaker.
Over the last 7 years, Stephen has visited 24 countries and analysed millions of piece of data to work out what is happening with global birthrates and predict the earth's future population. The answer is shocking and literally every person needs to be aware of it.
Expect to learn how 70% of countries on earth are below the population tipping point, what the cause of such rapidly changing birthrates can be attributed to, why women seem to find motherhood less attractive in 2023, whether marriage rates need to be raised, if cost of living, hormonal birth control or environmentalism is to blame and much more...
Sponsors:
Get 10% discount on all Gymshark’s products at bit.ly/sharkwisdom (use code: MW10)
Get the Whoop 4.0 for free and get your first month for free at join.whoop.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied)
Get 20% discount on Cured Nutrition’s CBD at curednutrition.com/modernwisdom (use code MW20)
Extra Stuff:
Watch Birthgap on KZhead - • Birthgap - Childless W...
Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → chriswillx.com/books/
To support me on Patreon (thank you): / modernwisdom
#population #collapse #environment
-
00:00 Intro
00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse
05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’
11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations
19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children?
36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children?
44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way?
56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children?
1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates
1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy
1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates
1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen
-
Get access to every episode 10 hours before KZhead by subscribing for free on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw
Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - chriswillx.com/books/
-
Get in touch in the comments below or head to...
Instagram: / chriswillx
Twitter: / chriswillx
Email: chriswillx.com/contact/
Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than KZhead by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse 05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’ 11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations 19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children? 36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children? 44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way? 56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children? 1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates 1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy 1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates 1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen
Chris! you need to make babies!
@@michaelmonaghan6599 hahaha
Women also make smarter decisions later age when choosing a partner that knows how to raise a family. Specialy when their educated, with a financial stability. We also now live longer and have more time. Other variables like dating apps, social media, international dating are kind of solving some of the problem. 80% modern day people found their partner online.
@@michaelmonaghan6599 our Chris needs to settle down and then make babies. I believe that is the best way forward if you have listened to his previous podcasts 😁
There is forced birth in AMERICA. How are the numbers looking on that? It wasn't a coincidence SUPREME COURT, passed a ban on abortion. The US is already working for more Boots on the ground. Unfortunately they will not be with willing or able women or men, who can create lots of single mothers.
I have a friend that I’ve known since middle school. He had his kid at 22. At the time, we all thought he was crazy. We were the same age, and while we were busy partying, he was changing diapers. I certainly thought he was missing out. But fast forward. At 41, his kid is in college. He is healthy and full of energy. I told my friend, “You’re done.” What I meant was that the daily and weekly routines of school drop off, after school activities, were all behind him. That is the freedom that society never taught us, that if you could have kids sooner, you get more years with them, that more of that time is in your youth and better health. Whatever “freedom” you have in your early 20s as a single person pales in comparison to the kind of “freedom” you have when you’re in your mid-40s, when your kids are grown and you still have good health.
Agree. I'm going to be 40 when my first child is 20 💞.
@@kc6810 According to this data, it is ending and quite soon.
@@kc6810 it all depends on your way of thinking. If you believe children are a burden then obviously you would be "saddled" with taking care of your kids and grandkids. If you view children as creations you're proud of, something to mold and raise with your values and make them good people, good brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, then it's a gift to be able to spend time with your grandchildren doing stuff they like and teaching them things as well as learning from them. I'm not praising or condemning either lifestyle, I'm just trying to explain to you that there might be another side to the equation that could seem almost foolish in your eyes and a few others.
Just knowing someone you love is present really gives a morral boost even in the lowest point of your life. Sad that a lot of people do not consider this when they decide to not have a family because they feel a spouse and children are burdonsome (especially talking to the ladies here). Okay, some family members can be unsupportive, but if you are good you will at least have someone. So many old people just kill themselves or are abused because they have no one else to fight for or stand up for them. This is something people only realize when it is too late. Single old people will be abused by the system, sadly 😥. No matter how much money you saved up for retirement.
You can maintain good health deep into life if you put in the effort.
I first became a mother at 20, postponed education and career to my 30 when I really knew what I wanted to do and my kids were in school. I’ve never regretted it.
🫡
That's the ideal way to do it. And as a result of motherhood, you were probably far more mature by the time you reached 30 than a single, childless person would be at that age and, as such, better equiped to pursue your education and career with discipline and the drive of having something bigger than yourself to work for.
May be the next step should be studying families who have had children earlier and then went on to school and a career.
Not trying to attack you, just genuinely wondering, how did you afford to do that? Did your husband cover all of the expenses?
I smell no husband aka spoken like a “single mum”
I dropped out of my masters program at age 23 when my husband and I had our first child. It was important to me that I be the one at home raising my children. 14 years later, I am still a stay at home mom to our 3 children. My husband has moved mountains to make sure he has been able to work and earn enough to support me and our children on his income alone. If our species wants to survive into the future we will need to put the priority back on the family and less on career success and “lifestyle freedom”.
Kudos to you and your husband. We did the same thing.
I read this as "women need to focus on raising a family and finding a provider and not education and independance."
That starts by telling 20 year old men to grow up and stop extending adolescence until 30 and then postponing family until they can afford it. Women are career focused because they know they have to support themselves and a family while their male counterparts are seeing how many notches they can cut into the bedpost.
@@Jirizo1 Yes Sir. Women are free to do what they choose. But when the mother is focused on her career and freedom, someone else is taking care of and raising her children. Usually the government run public school system and daycare providers. Since the big feminism push in the 60s and 70s, the family unit and especially children in our society have paid a great price for making women believe that taking care of your children and home is not worth their time and a useless job because it doesn’t make money. I believe family and children should come first for the mother. If we still have time and energy left after these things, then sure, pursue a career or other personal freedoms.
@@kimberlyjean2248 I'm 84 so I've seen this from the start ... The two greatest contributing factors were: 1.) the "Pill" which led to 2.) pie-in-the-sky women's lib. The answer is ... teen years end at 19 and work begins at becoming a responsible adult.
This episode put a tear in my eyes, next year my wife and I are planning to have our first child and you just remove all hesitation from me. Thank you ❤
@@Chris-es3wf We’re waiting 3 months actually, gynecologist appointment. So what anyway, are you a father already?
God bless
All the best❤
it si the best thing on the world, it is incredibly hard, but it is worth it. when i was younger i was saying i don't want children because i was traveling the world, having fun, now i have 2 kids and i want two more. my wife is 30 and i hope we can get at least one more. it just makes you a real men, and a grownup
My wife had all three of her kids by the time she was 28. My daughter has three children by the time she is 29. You need lots of energy with little kids. Don’t wait for the right time. There is no right time. Life is happening now. Being a fit grandpa in his 50s is a true joy…
Did your wife and daughter go to college? Because that's the biggest delaying factor imo
"her" kids? They're not yours?
@Opium Copium very interesting. Its also where they get marinated in malthusianism. Our educational institutions are corrupted and anti-human.
Going to college for a degree that’s pointless while continuing to live within a single parent home and dating countless others seems to be todays youth . You cant live at home and stay under your parent’s insurance until 25+ and expect life to be normal .
I had my youngest child at 25. As I see it you have the whole of your life to study, you only have about ten years to have healthy babies. I raised my daughters to understand this. And I agree, it's great to be a young grandparent.
One of the reasons I left teaching at 30 was because the pay was so poor for the south of England that I could see how I could afford a wife and kids. Now have a job earning 5x more and married with 2 kids. Financial security is a massive issue.
what is your job?
I struggled really hard financially for most of my life. I was basically a failure despite enormous. Then later in life I inherited a large Fortune. Life improves so much when you are financially independent and people treat you so much better it both made me happy and sad
The worrying thing, is when we see that collapsing young population means there will be fewer and fewer working age adults able to support the system. This will make it even more difficult to support a family. More women will need to be working long hours just to build a life. If women are concerned with career before family now, that can only become a larger issue as people struggle more and more to make a living. I’m not suggesting women shouldn’t be free to make choices. I simply believe the future will make the choice to become a mother even more inaccessible to women. I’m a mother. I count myself blessed to have a husband and my children. I know many other women who want the same, but the most common thing I hear is that people just can’t afford to bring a child into their life. It’s very sad.
Someone needs to tell Africans, and middle easterners. This is only a problem in the west. But the same problem around the world is getting RICH and comfortable stops people from having kids. When you're poor kids are insurance, and when you're rich they are just a nuisance. People are selfish and it's extremely hard to admit. My lady and I make a combined 95k in the USA and we're about to have our 3rd kid. We just don't live the life of luxury.
@@EveIsJustMyBlogName I think that the opposite will be the case. Population increase makes urban land enormously expensive, so housing will be more expensive. Homes with yards have disappeared. And who wants to live with a baby and a toddler in a little flat 4 storeys up?
People can’t afford to have children. Housing is unaffordable, people are weighed down by debt - college debt - child care is unaffordable. Jobs don’t pay enough. Healthcare is unaffordable.
As someone living in Germany and working in the medical field I can only confirm that the whole "old peoples' homes" branch is a rising financial milk cow, while the care truly provided is suboptimal
All those young muslims will take great care of you. Lol
I'll be 35 this year, I'm childless, and going through what I assume will be a break up with a man I was hoping to make babies with. This podcast hit really close to home. Here's hoping I get another opportunity before it's too late
Lower your material standards, and look for compatible values. Good luck
Why do you want kids?
@@austinjames2721 Your mom
Why did the relationship not work out?
You need to get busy.
We talked about this in the 90's. I remember a teacher telling me that companies want to hire new grads not older people. I was laid off from ATCO Electric after 15 years of service. I tried to get my job back when rehiring started and was just past from one person to another until I stopped. All the new hires are in their 20's and new grads. Our society has made getting a good job and school a priority in our younger child bearing years. I think we found a flaw.
Try contracting/consulting
It should be 1) basic education, 2) family and if you can fit in some more education and work while the kids grow for the first ~7 years, 3) career. This idea that you spend your 20's grinding in college and starting the foundations of your career or you'll forever be a career reject is insane.
@@wombatillo It is the reality. I did a degree after I had children. Nobody wants to employ a 40 year old beginner. Employers want experience as well as training.
Try dealing with cocaine, there’s no age limit there
@@arcabuz I would rather be dead than be a drug dealer or a drug user.
When I was a teenager in the late 60s my father made an observation to me (more than once) that made more and more sense as I got older. He said, if a man stays single into his 30s he will likely not get married (long term) because he will be so set in his ways that only the perfect woman will do - and there ain't so such thing as the perfect woman. I would guess that, perhaps in a slightly different way that similarly applies to women. You need to be young enough grow together and develop similar interests together.
Wow. Yes, I’ve seen this with my friends who are single.
Nah. I would be ok to marry a woman in her 20s because she hasn't been set in her ways, and if she doesn't have mileage and baggage. I wouldn't marry a woman my age.
We need to stop keeping young people in college then, 4 years is too long. U really can do it in just two.
@@edheldude Yeah same, relationships tend to get stressful and require constant work on both sides. It would be worth it if it was the right woman. I would prefer a woman not raised in western society and does not obsess over social media and is more family oriented. I am 33 but people think I'm in my early 20's. I avoid hook up culture. Not interested in STD's and sleeping with random women I don't care for that have been with who knows how many men. I chase health, self improvement, and living a life worth living
Chris this is a fantastic episode. Thank you for bringing Mr. Shaw on, and asking great questions.
Reasons I can think of which haven't been mentioned here: 1. Men are afraid because of the legal problems associated with being fathers. 2. People want to control their lives instead of having a belief system which involves selflessness and family values. 3. People are online rather than irl with each other. 4. Fertility in men is dropping fast. 5. Family trauma/disassociation 6. Uncertainty about the future/checking out/disassociation 7. Lack of "grown ups" among 20 somethings. 8. Very insufficient sex ed 9. College Ed valued over starting a family 10. Lack of traditional practices/events in communities, like dances, which set people up to want to engage and to be able to interact in a healthy mating game
I used to watch old shows with my mom and they were based in the 60 and back. Thry used to have "socials" and dances where people dressed their best and got together in a wholesome way and now we have nothing but clubs and bars. Now I might have gone to a social with my introverted self but you'll never see me in a bar or club.....and never on a dating app which means I don't meet anyone...except co-workers
Most prominent is rotten values. It used to be number kids that counted as status. Nowadays it is posts social media featuring exotic counties and looking rich.
For the first reason, I suggest people have marriage contracts overpowering no fault divorce, and placing the relationship out of family court and into contract law.
@@Opal5674 Even in the 80s when I was young these were common.
@@coreywilder1564 If our ancestors thought like that, we wouldn't be here.
As a girl child of the 60’s I made a personal decision to not contribute to the population “problem” (by abstaining). It seemed innocuous enough, just not being one of the parents. I spent my life caring for my elders and serving severely disabled folk. Now at 64, I realize I listened to propaganda. I probably would be a better person if I’d experienced parenting, even though I’m really not psychologically suited to the task. Sorry, everyone.
No need to be sorry in my opinion.
Shes not saying that. Hers was a noble life of service, but because of the negative messaging she received when she was young she didn't want kids. She could have done all of those things and still had children.
Sorry to hear that.
@@kc6810 you're devalueing both motherhood and the helping professions with your thoughtless comment
No one is suited until they have them.
Fascinating conversation. Demographers have been speaking to the dangers of global population decline for years, but got no press whatsoever, so I'm glad to see this here. One point I take issue with is the equating of "poor" people having large families many years ago to the idea that they still can now. The idea that families aren't willing to do without creature comforts in order to have children may be valid in some respects, but strikes me as short-sighted. Many years ago, when families were largely self-sustaining, many children were encouraged because they became much needed free labor on family farms. During industrialization, children were sent to work in factories at early ages in orderto help support the family financially. It served a purpose. We live in a time now where children are in school full-time until the age 18...and then many go on to additional schooling to gain opportunities at better paying careers, while still depending predominantly on their parents for financial support. For roughly two decades, parents support their children completely in a world where wages have been mostly stagnant since the late '70's while the cost of living has risen exponentially. Today's poor families struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, period. There are few creature comforts to give up, even if they want to. Every child brought into that equation stresses the family unit even more. And we now know there is a direct relation between financial stress in a family and the occurrence of different types of abuse. In the US, a father of two or more can work full-time at a skilled job and still qualify for food assistance because his income is under the poverty threshhold. Something about that just isn't right. There are plenty of married couples who don't mind living a simple life, driving beaters for cars, rarely eating out, buying new clothes or taking vacations. But even these couples struggle to justify bringing children into the world, knowing that they won't be able to provide for them in a way that can give them a hand up in the world. They aren't wrong for that choice. It's a complex issue with no easy answers. 😕
When my niece married in her early 20’s, she wondered about waiting to have children. I told her 1) there is never a “convenient” time to have children, 2) the older you are, the harder it gets. I told her she would be better off having them early, regardless of circumstance. They have two beautiful girls now and is not yet 30. :)
I'm 43 and my partner is 33. We had our first child on December 22. I purposely waited as I wanted to be financially stable and able to be at home more once I had children. Now we've had one I wish I had had a child much earlier. Logically, waiting made sense and I am more stable than in my late 20s or early 30s but I now feel like I've missed out by holding off for so long and perhaps what's worst is that I'll be 53 when my daughter is 10, 63 when she is 20 and so on. I already feel myself slowing down and will only slow down more over the years... In simple terms, if I had had my Daughter 10 years earlier she will have gotten to be a part of my life and me hers for 10 more years than she will now. It's an opportunity cost I didn't consider and didn't appreciate. From an evolutionary perspective, we are biologically designed to have children earlier in our lives than I have. It's not just to do with things like menopause but also our hormones, brain chemistry and a million other things. This is also a social, and cultural issue. Less women have children and those that are, do so later than in the past. Talking about the reasons for that and whether it's a good or bad thing is a minefield but from a Male perspective, the fewer fathers we have the worse off the whole world is. Nothing will teach a young man about responsibility quicker or more effectively than having a child. It provides purpose and meaning to your life something which many men don't seem to have in today's society, leading to higher rates of depression in men, higher suicide rates and many other issues.
In the past, men were not regarded as full adults until they father a child. Look at the sort of people running the world today. Most of them are childless. Having kids often changes people's mindset for the better.
@@taras3702 I have to agree. I was 30 when we had my son. Looking back on my mentality, I was technically an adult, but I was not a man until a few years after my son was born.
"Partner"...that kind of vocabulary is half the problem....what are you, oil men in west Texas??
@@mrfarenheit9159 me and my "Partner" are not married so the term "Wife" doesn't apply and "Girl Friend" also doesn't really fit the bill, having been with my other half for 6 years and having a child together it doesn't really convay the depth of our relationship. I'm completely open to some other term if you can think of one that fits the bill better?
Congratulations to you and yours!!!💞👍🌻
It's great discovering that almost everything 'society has preached to us has been wrong.
Not everything. It's only a matter of perspective
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Enough to where it puts into question everything else.
@@maniswil2 very good point
Especially feminisms lies
I live in Ireland. Global warming does not scare me.
Stephen does a great job explaining problems in a polite way. It's difficult to be blunt and explain how people sabotage their own reproduction.
Great content
I adopted my first at 32, had biological twins at 36, and one more at 44. Praise God! I definitely tell my children to have theirs early! It was an uphill battle for me.
I had - due to health reasons - my first child at 42 and twins with 45. I wouldn't have done so by choice, but I see many advantages as well. I know much more and I need less in this period of my life. I would have been a worse mother earlier.
Wow 🎉
@@heikejohannajahns3257 did your children come out okay with no birth defects? Sorry I don’t know any other way to ask that.
@@kc6810 I don't mind, don't worry. Yes, they are alle healthy and fine. Now 17 and 14.
It should be a crime to have children at that age.
I was 38 years old when I had my first child. My husband was 40 years old and we have been talking about this between us wishing we would’ve met earlier and started this family project earlier. We both have professional careers, my husband is still doing his PhD. This podcast really put into words and data what I have been feeling about my own situation. I keep telling ALL young people I meet to start earlier. Looking back , I would’ve done things differently but hey… at least now I know I am not the only one thinking the education, the culture , the dating , the men and women relationship narratives need to shift for the next generation. I loved the podcast, thank you so so much for your work and I will be looking forward to help others avoid the challenges we’ve had to face having children later. 👍🏼👏❤️
Thank you for speaking up!
Hats off for being honest, more people need to hear this.
I always wanted the family thing as a man, but chances are becoming less like now as I'm 43, and the state of modern dating/courting as well as my individual goals. To your point though I remember being late 20's talking with another co-worker who married his wife young and had 3 or four kids by the time he and his wife were 23 or so; good Catholic Mexicans. At the time he was mid 40's and was advocating the same thing. Have em young and be able to enjoy your middle years with freedom. His only regret at the time is that his two boys, mid 20's were both still at home and the Wife wouldn't let him kick the baby-birds from the nest.
Very well said, wow so simple yet poignant.
@@derekhamel2991 hey , tell me about it. The dating scene can be brutal especially the online dating experience. All I can say is use online dating like a tool, put yourself at places with people who probably share one common interest. Take classes, be a bit bolder to approach anyone you feel good energy from. Don’t give up. I started the online dating in my 30s and I was a late bloomer, not the feminine sexy type and I didn’t care much of what people thought of me… but then I wanted family and a marriage based on love and for that I had to « optimize » my strategy. I lost ton lf weight to be more appealing to men (being a fat woman decreases your mating range!) I read Harville Hendrix books , found out how I was « f**up », dated around, recognize my patterns… try to improve them, met some men , all of them were really nice people. Even when things don’t work out, we always wished each other better luck. We are all in this game together trying to reach our goals so why not encourage ourselves and help one another. You should keep going, as a man you can have a kid at 60! Look at Clint Eastwood! Hehe There is a woman/man/it for everyone. It is never too late for love. I met my husband on Happn. He was the only one I talked to on my 1 week trial of the app. I’m sure you’re a great guy. Don’t give up. Look up to women in the streets and smile to them, open doors for them. Not all women think that is toxic masculinity . 😉
Thank you so much for this amazing conversation!
A Japanese widower was being interviewed about the living conditions in their society said that loneliness and isolation were bad because in their society they are not allowed to socialize or speak to those not on the same level of the hierarchy they have achieved. So this man will die alone and someone will eventually find his body due to the stink. How sad is this?
It seems to be how society has aligned incentives everywhere.
The dissolution of extended family members living and working together has made life lonelier and more difficult. Independence and nuclear families has a cost. @@jmanakajosh9354
I laughed (bleakly) at how "this is the best time in history to live on Earth!" turned so swiftly into "of all the nightmares we could live in, this is the most luxurious"!
my life was fabulous up through age 65 years …… i have the best partner i could dream of …….. from year 49 and beyond i have been useless except for party-time ……. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain
It really feel like the end of the world roof top party right now. Nothing makes sense, economy, government, foreign policy, national debt, feminism, LGBTUKHFBUFVEQ, Wokism.... On the other hand market meltup, hosuing FOMO, packed mall and bars. However this ends, it wouldn't be pretty, but at least right now the drinks are still flowing
@@sunso1991 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ cheers to you …..lets all go to sugar rock candy mountain
So you prefer living in the 1940s? Or maybe earlier where the mortality rate everywhere around the world was like the Congo or worse? It is still the best time to be alive for 99.7% of people on earth. It is easy to make the mistake of assuming doom and gloom from these podcasts. They’re important but putting too much weight on them is insane.
@@LogicSpeaks The 1940s were the most catastrophic decade in human history, so not a good comparator. In general, though, anything before the internet would be an improvement; anything before the nuclear bomb has an obvious advantage; anything before 1914, when the intellectual and artistic culture of my civilization was still at its peak, would be excellent, and anything before the despoilation of the land and systematic degradation of the poor by industrialization would probably be best. I know war, disease and poverty were great evils then, as now, and if magically transported back in time I would not cope; but if I were born into it I would have the same chance as anyone. Besides, the Victorians could claim with just as much justice as we can to have mitigated those problems - as could the Georgians and the Stuarts, for that matter. They were making progress almost throughout. The twentieth century, on the other hand, was a devastating backwards step for humanity. Renaissance intellectuals were constantly going on about how the times they lived in were the best ever; if you don't find them wholly convincing, I don't have to find you wholly convincing! Mortality is an especially bad metric because most of that is infant mortality - sad, but well within the normal range of human experience.
I am a 38 year old American male with four children. My wife wanted five. We are planning on eventually taking care of her mother who is just turning 60. We will never have a empty home. You sacrifice for those you love.
That's very nice of you to take care of your wife's mother
Good for you! But is not a general trend in N.America, Europe or East Asia
Hope you can afford to support all those people.
Good for you! That’s Wonderful!❤
Tragic. My sons are 20 and 24 and i am looking forward to empty house. Btw my ex-husband's grandma lived alone till her death at 97 and firmly refused to live with her daughter or son. It was her space and she intended on keeping it this way. Even when she broke her leg and died soon - she didn't allowed her daughter to stay overnight. She was allowed to come in in the morning, prepare breakfast, then a nurse in midday and her son in the evening.
I had kids in my 30s, and I couldn't be happier. Some of my mates waited really long to have kids, but once they did, they realized why I had more than 1. I think growing up when we did in high school there was a lot of propaganda about how hard it is to have children, and what a sacrifice it is for young women and that young people should wait to have kids. In my mind I waited for the right time and circumstances, so it's hard for me to say whether I should have had them younger. And I know some couples that got married young and had kids young that are getting divorced. So it's really hard to say one way or another. The only thing I can offer to this conversation is that being a dad is the best thing ever. Everything else is just so meaningless in comparison. So if you're worried about a career, I think you should know that your career won't fill your life with a similar amount of meaning. It's a hard thing to explain, and only another parent will understand because we all know what life was like before children. Finding the perfect partner can be tough, but if you keep looking and not settling down time tends to pass by really quick.
Just had my first kid in March, my wife and I are 33, we want 3 and if there are any complications on the second that won't end up being possible. You are truly short changing yourself from the greatest experience in life, the best thing you will ever do, if you don't have a family.
I loved my life too much to turn everything upside down to have a kid that I would have to raise alone anyway. BTW, I still do love my life... at 68. No regrets whatsoever. Just remember: everybody wants a baby - and then one day they look around and have teenagers. No, thank you very much!
@@Pikrodafni sad.
@@krewsadistviewing1097 Are you sad because I'm happy? Are you crazy?!
@@Pikrodafni sad.
@@krewsadistviewing1097Are you sad because I'm happy? Are you batty?!
Something to contemplate: The next couple generations of kids who it will fall on to support the aging population might feel highly resentful of the responsibility. They'll likely be supportive of their parents and grandparents, but that is it. But because the elderly will make up the majority voting bloc they will likely vote for politicians and policies that heavily favor them at the expense of the new generations. I can see a huge rift in society because of this.
I agree. All of these childless people are going to demand that other people's kids take care of them, in the form of oppressive taxation. The people complaining that it's too expensive to have kids now, haven't seen anything yet.
I have heard this is reason #1 that the Japanese youth don't bother to be part of politics.
The rift is already happening
Great point
This is a reall accurate observation. We've seen this exact process happen in Japan in the last 20 years.
In Australia, business and government love the drop in the birth rate. It gives them the excuse to bring in cheaper migrant labour.
They’ve violated the social contract! All they care about is profit!!
For any one birth they bring in five immigrants
Lol, that’s called shooting yourself in the foot. Look at some of the heavily migrated European countries. Lots of them have been taken over by Islamics and the laws have changed to meet their needs. Eventually it’s no longer the original country, but the migrants. Lol
Australia: the continent built upon the backbone of convicts being sent there. Makes perfect sense.
@@princesspikachu3915 Australia wasn't built by convicts.
This is absolutely fascinating.
Yeah apparently childless couples are happiest when in their 20s and 30s but later on it flips, I think I saw a survey that in the end people are happiest with kids. But there are things you can do to mitigate the loneliness. Travel, exploration, dancing, drinking smoking weed, joining volunteer groups intentional communities, eating well, list goes on.
The only reason the UK’s birth rate isn’t as low as the rest of Europe is probably due to the masses of foreigners that entered the country over the last few years, who then went on to give birth here. The most popular baby names give a clue as to the demographic change.
According to the Office of National Statistics "Muhammad was the most popular boys' name in four out of nine English regions". Muslim women produce a lot of babies.
@@BiblicalBasics no, almost every first son is given this name. So it is misleading. The group that have the most children are Polish women, from what i heard.
@@BiblicalBasics Indeed, men know their rights as fathers, providers, protectors and women knows her position. Hence why you find peace and harmony in majority Muslim families.
@@thebeast09876 65% of muslims marry their first cousins. In England this equates to 1/3 pakistanis bearing children with genetic disabilities. The religion has some benefits but massive drawbacks.
@@maniswil2 65% impossible, but I do agree there are a % who marry their first cousins and have these problems mainly in boys. Ultimately Islam keeps families and communities together in peace and harmony, you will see the spirit of brotherhood when breaking fast together.
This is a significant issue that governments just refuse to acknowledge and deal with. My late wife and I knew from wider reading that having children young is so sensible, when you are older after child-rearing, you are young enough to travel and enjoy life. We married at 20 and 21, had three children,before we were 30, but wanted five (health stopped this plan) and were then grandparents in our early 50’s. Sadly she died at 51, but now I have nine beautiful grandchildren, the eldest is 15 and I am not yet 65. God is good and we are designed to reproduce young. Modern culture deceives and deludes and is slowly killing itself. This chap describes the saddest people; those who delayed family too long due to the culture of the day.
I don't see anything appealing in having nine grandchildren. One or two would be enough.
@@zumurudlilit If the breakeven TFR is 2.1 then the breakeven grandchildren rate is 4.41. Reversing the math, having 1 to 2 grandchildren is equivalent to a TFR of 1 to 1.4, i.e. the levels which are doing it for Japan, S. Korea, Italy etc.
@@zumurudlilit Bro, really. Your insecurity is showing.
I agree with you 100%! Having 9 grandchildren is outrageous, ridiculous, and totally extreme.
@@theresabromar5415It’s 3 grandchildren a child, not really groundbreaking
Great insightful interview...
Children are super expensive to have when you cannot afford a home or somewhere to live as a family. The costs of a child is said to be £100000 over the time until 18. Debt is a huge albatross around the necks of young people, especially the STUDENT DEBT of tens of thousands minimum.
This is so much B.S. We've become selfish, narcecists. My wife and I are both 80 years old now, but we were young once. We got married at 19 while we were still in the military. Our dream was simole, to stay together forever, start a family and have a bunch of beautiful, healthy, childern. We did't dream of millions of dollars or Corvettes. I guess it's ok to do so, but for most of us, our best parenting years are early on and they don't last long . We had six, two boys and 4 girls, all educated and doing well. We somehow managed it. Credit to my wife, wisest person I know. Now we're hoppeing to make a dignified exit when our time arrives, without becoming a burden to them or anyone else.
This is exactly right. I'm 38 and about to have our 3rd child. I know people making 200k a year that say it's too expensive, but can spend 500$ a night drinking. People have become incredibly selfish and society endlessly caters to it. The old Mark Twain adage is the lead here about people being convinced they've been lied to. It's truly heartbreaking. Even worse is the ones that are so miserable and selfish they sabotage relationships of others or chase them into getting abortions.
🙏🤗
Agree, I find it hard to sympathize to these hypergamic women, because I've been there, going on dates with ladies and they drop you like a rock when you don't drive a nice enough car, have a nice enough house, when you're not a CEO or movie star. You consider yourself too important to be bothered with anyone, so we'll leave you and your 7 cats to ponder how someday Mr Right will come along.
@@castirondude 80%of women are chasing top1% of men. Unfortunately those men only want to F around or settle with a hot 21 year old.
I’m a veteran myself and I’m expecting my first any day now. My wife and I both want what you seem to have. I’m the youngest of 7 and she’s the 5th of 6 so a large family is not foreign to us. God Bless thanks for your service!
I was a dad at 29, purely by accident. Now I'm 42 and not dating, a lot of this resonated with me. So glad I've got my daughter as I'm unlikely to have managed to do so otherwise.
Most eldest children that I know of were accidental. Their parents always thought that they would have children "sometime" but only because everybody else does.
In 1968, I remember being in gr. 10 and in the high school library, seeing I think it was in Life magazine, how Japan was using abortion as birth control. I hardly knew what that meant. This was in the decade where The Pill was welcomed but abortion only gearing up (Canada). I did notice that around when we married in 1973, that there was lots of talk about population explosion and couples ahead of us were having only 2 kids. We wondered if we should adopt instead. But Children's Aid would not allow us as we didn't indicate infertility. In the end, we gave birth to 4 sons, the first when I was 25; all are married and definitely doing more than replacing their number. But we think of our grandchildren and pray that they will not be afraid of following suit.
Strange you didn't mention one of the most common reasons for people not having children - money. Money is the primary motivator in South Korea followed by a competitive lifestyle that caters to society's most gifted. In South Korea money is associated with happiness and life fulfillment.
Then why does sub saharan Africa have 6 babies per woman.
@@michaelmontana251 Because I am talking about the motivating factors in South Korea. I was talking about south Korean culture specifically, not the rest of the world. In South Korea they think money equates to happiness, and their stats are clearly showing this not to be the case. If you have an insane workload to achieve that wealth, only based on the acquisition of that wealth and dreams / desires is not part of it, that person is generally not going to be happier. Their current president has actually advocated for 120 hour work weeks. They now have the lowest birth rate in the entire world. As or the rest of the world the poorest nations tend to have the most children, and actually when Korea was one of those poorest nations they had a lot more children. They are were actually a happier nation when they were poor.
The most elitist vs the least - first shall become last and the last shall become first @@michaelmontana251
I think money and resources is a false argument when you look at reality. It's all about culture and values, and society subsidizing bad behavior (e.g. single motherhood) and human interactions being institutionalized through welfare instead of people relying on each other.
@@edheldude Your description does not match South Korean culture at all. The South Korean government is super corrupt and they far from subsidize bad behavior. The fact that you think single motherhood is bad behavior makes me question your moral compass. South Korean society is a super competitive society that encourages Koreans to put work before home life. Their Conservative president was quoted as saying Koreans should be working 120 hour weeks. As a generalization they spend all their time on education and working. They have some of the highest rates of suicide and depression in the world. They have the lowest birth rate in the world. Koreans aren't having children because it is simply to expensive in their society, and the newer generation want to have a life. Me and my Korean wife said if we have a child he will not get a Korean education because we want our child to have a childhood.
Chris, this was one of the most powerful podcasts I've listened to and I regularly listen to some of the greats. Thank you for doing this interview.
At 0:19:45 Chris & Stephen completely undermine the meaning of this data. This idiotic "you live your life they way you want to" libertinism is central to this problem. I have several kids. It's bloody hard. I don't get to write & make videos like I could were I childless. I can't help but notice the KZheadrs I like - Chris, Tim Pool, malace - are childless. Again, this ideology is CENTRAL to the problem. We do need social pressure to step up & stop being narcissistic Peter pans. "this desire is innate" - what nonsense. How can you empirically investigate if a woman who says at 25 she doesn't want kids, wait till she's 50 & compare with the parallel universe where she did have kids?? You're just reinforcing the message that it's OK to avoid the responsibilities of being part of a multigenerational game where we all need to work hard.
Interesting how even in the absence or high mortality, natural selection finds a way. There's a massive evolutionary chokepoint happening right now because a lot of people aren't reproducing which means the people who ARE reproducing within their own populations will have a huge impact on the future of human traits.
Brilliant comment.👍
Yeah, Amish and Mormons will end up ruling North America.
I don't feel the human race is in danger. But throughout, I was thinking how the large number of young adults taking vows of celibacy and failing to have children, contributed to the fall of Rome.
Also on the future of culture. The values of large family parents will be the values of tomorrow's society. Unless the public schools have their way. Edit: For better or worse, the future will be VERY religious.
@@dontcallthemliberals3316 the pendulum swing?
My wife is a nurse, and as part of her education, she became very much aware of the fertility window, and the increasing risks of motherhood at later ages. She was 23 when we married, and from the beginning, was insistent that we have children before she turned 30, which we did. Thank goodness I listened to her. We are now in our 50s, in great health, with much more time and money to travel the world and enjoy life than when we were in our childless early / mid-20s.
In the post-war years in the UK, new towns were built to accommodate displaced people from heavily bombed urban areas. Prior to 1963, a tiny minority of 18 year olds went to university, and it was possible to work one's way up the career ladder within an organisation, and not have to defer entry to the workforce, acquiring qualifications and piling up student debt on the altar of trying to maintain a chance of landing that dream job which makes possible of living a 'normal' life, which was accessible to young adults in their early 20s sixty years ago which is largely not the case today.
Yes, AND…the more desirable jobs, those in certain fields, always did require advanced postsecondary credentials. But it used to be possible to get those credentials at well-subsidized public colleges and universities, and/or to attend elite schools on full scholarships. Then came the “austerity” of the 1980s to the present, as we stopped subsidizing education, and financial aid morphed from mostly grants to mostly loans. Even as postsecondary credentials have become more and more necessary to get decently-paying work.
This kind of content is what the Internet should be used for! 👌
Spot on statement
@@oneschance Yes
Yes
5 years elementary, 3 years middle, 4 years high school could be done in half that time. I still remember sitting in classrooms looking out the window wondering when my life was going to start. I'm 45 and never married and or had children.
Yes I agree u think we should finish school at 16 and go to college early.
Why did you not have kids?
I think something went wrong inside me during those high school years....
I'm in the exact same situation. Mid 40's, never married, no children. I have a high paying job, a lot of stuff, lots of investments, I want for nothing. But I question what am I doing. What's my purpose? To have all this to have a great retirement at 60? A family to share everything with is what I need.
I have 7 kids. Some tough stretches financially. No fancy house, vehicles or holidays. But every day facebook reminds me (thru pictures) i have a lot of fond memories. I just have 15 year old twin boys left and the caboose. My 10 year old girl. Went by so fast it seemed. I have no regrets.
It's crazy to think that most people watching this video will outlive a good number of countries.
Damn, with me being a teenage boy that hits crazy hard. I might witness the collapse of nations like Korea and Japan…
The "cost of living" is a real thing. The 50s-60s people maybe didn't have iphones, but they owned houses in safe neighborhoods with good schools at minimum wage. They also had a less competitive job market and job security. Before that, people had meaningful local communities. Those were destroyed.
>but they owned houses in safe neighborhoods with good schools at minimum wage lmao no they didn't. they lived in a far more dangerous and violent time. They simply lacked the ability to track it and disseminate those details across the community the way we do now. >They also had a less competitive job market and job security. This is very true and not addressed. There was substantially less competition both locally and globally. It was also much easier to stand out from your peers as more capable or educated.
"Moral imperative"? Fuck no. Perhaps we need to consider an economic system that focuses on the well-being and happiness of its citizens rather than constant growth for the benefit of our overlords. I believe, wholeheartedly, in a free market and innovation and entrepreneurship but all those things are built upon the work of society and the rewards need to support that society rather than just build the coolest billion dollar yacht. America was at its best when high tax rates supported education and home ownership. On that note, tax corporate ownership of homes within an inch of its life to make it unattractive to own multiple homes. Homes are for people and they deserve the security of stability. THAT would promote having children.
I’d be really curious about an updated study on the percentage of childless women. It’s refreshing to hear 80% WANTED kids but I feel like the last year and a half so many young girls are being fed how terrible having kids is. I feel like it’s more of a trend now vs when the data started. Such a great topic I’m so glad you’ve been hounding it.
Year and a half? They been sold this for the last 30 yrs and it has worked sadly.
Feminism has forced young women into the slave trade(work force) and by the time they wake up… it’s to late. This has been engineered by the elites . Be aware , they do not care about their slave force. Human resource means people are no different than steel to these scumbags
Thats because they continue to be girls.
Yep, I am one of those young girls (now a woman). I have never heard any positive things about pregnancy, babies, young children, or teenagers. It's all been packaged to me since I was a young girl as an absolutely terrible time. I still want children, but I have to fight off that programming every time I think about having children. My husband wants kids soon, but I asked for another year to hopefully get the house paid off first, but even still, I associate children with awful times.
PLENTY OF DATA ON YTUBE, ALSO, CHECK AROUND WITH ALL YOUR FRIENDS, HOW MANY CHILDREN DO THEY HAVE OR PLAN TO HAVE? WOMEN DO NOT WANT MORE CHILDREN ANYMORE, TO EXPENSIVE
I haven’t heard anyone discuss the correlation between birth rate and happiness. You wanna increase the birth rate of your nation? Make your people happier.
That's how it works in the video games.
Just because you have children is no guarantee they will take care of you when you're elderly. Even if parents and children had a good relationship, kids leave the nest and establish their own careers and families. Many move very far away from their parents and extended family. It's worse if a person had a bad relationship with their parents. There are so many people in nursing homes who have kids and grandkids who never visit or call them or even send a card for birthdays and holidays.
Jesus said that childeren make their own live and go out. that is the function of the parents to raise people and live their live. 10 commandant are old testament, we are christen New testament.
@@101ineke What an excuse. Do you run a care home? You going to make money off this?
@@BeachandHills-hb2pq nope, as an sensible being your end you live if you not take care of your self anymore.
@@101ineke ok so you beleave in total individual ieven at the family level. The western nuclear family was considered extreme historically. Mums and daughters still lived with 1 mile and helped each other. Your preferred living style must mean your American I saw what you want in films. The live any were and move anywhere lifestyle with no family as such.
@@BeachandHills-hb2pq I am 59 my mother is 93 and dying. I have left an older sister that's it. When your parents get childeren on a older age, you end with nothing. And even big family 's die
I feel like I’ve completely lucked into having had a wife and three kids. We had our first child at 25/23 through sheer recklessness. Just a feeling of ‘It’d be cool to have a baby’ and , man, did we suffer for that economically! There’s then a 10 year gap as we recovered financially and then another 6 from there. But at 46, I feel like one of the luckiest guys I know. There’s never going to be a ‘right’ time - just do it!!
Really? But what if one struggles to get a girlfriend and does not have a lot of money?
@@shanepatrick641 You don’t need lots of money to get a girlfriend - that’s a myth promulgated by ‘influencers’ trying to con you. Shave, keep your hair tidy, wear clean, ironed clothes that fit you properly, be friendly and polite. Learn how to pay a compliment without coming across as creepy - don’t say “you’re a total babe”, say “nice earrings”. When you get a GF, just be nice and not too heavy. Don’t be possessive or jealous. Make an effort to get on well with her family and friends. And when you’re a year in, take it up a notch - ask her to live with you, for example. That’s all probably bullshit - but it’s the best I’ve got! Good luck, Shane!!
Accidental kids are a blessing. Not a curse. Whoops! Oh, hey, you're awesome!
@@martynmcclure7121 Thank you Martyn! Ha ha 😄 I appreciate the advice 😊 My longest relationship was six months, but we lived too far apart. Broke my heart, best relationship I ever had, I'll struggle for a while but I'll take your advice on board. (Screenshotted your comment if you don't mind)
@@martynmcclure7121 and DO NOT SIMP😊
I wish I could have started having kids earlier! I got married at 25 (I'm the female). We started trying for a baby when I was 26. Didn't conceive for 11 months (I blame the IUD). Then of course, pregnancy lasts nearly a year, so when I gave birth I was 28. We've kept the kids pretty close together and have 3 now. I'm turning 33 this year, but we're hoping for another before getting off "baby island" lol
Very well done😊
Kinda hard to have kids when most of the population find each other far too ooglee to date. 90% of women want the top 10% of men
❤
Not everyone want to do same
"didn't conceive for 11 months"... In the grand scheme of things, you're really going to complain about this "delay"? Many people struggle for YEARS to conceive... Count yourself lucky.
As a 48 year old with no kids, the talk at 54:37 is what hits home the most.
You know whats very strange is that when I was young like 5 or 10, I thought having kids in your 30s was to early but having kids in your 40s was normal. I have almost no idea where that came from.
My wife and I both turn 65 this year. Never had children. Our greatest life regret. 😢
I turned 62 this year. Never had children. Never had a moment's regret. Have kids all you want, save society, whatever you're into. But some of us are damn happy childfree. Don't let anyone push you in either direction. It's the most personal and life-changing decision of your life. It needs to be YOUR decision, 100%.
Here in the year of our lord 2023, having children is nothing more than an expensive headache. Be glad you skipped that garbage and live life to its fullest extent.
There is an important point here regarding how much we need to be sensitive to the hurts and difficulties experienced by others. Life is a challenge, there are many challenges. It isn't what the challenges are, it is how we negotiate them. As a young exhausted widow, with 2 children, working in mental health, I listen to family concerns, marriage concerns, and happy family stories all day. I think it is really important that we come to appreciate others joy, rather than expecting others to be sensitive to our hurts. I am happy to be sensitive to the needs of others, however I have noticed that I feel I am not allowed to be outwardly proud or joyful about, for example, having had children without medical interventions. Apparently this is hurtful to those mothers who are obliged to take pain meds, or other procedures. Having had beautiful, natural births is a huge point of pride and joy for me. I want to be happy for people's joys, including my own. I don't want to oblige others to tend to my broken heart, that is my responsibility. We need a balance here.
Just talk to men, instead of trying to communicate with judgemental progressive females. Everything in life is easier and better if you isolate yourselves from those types.
@@kc6810being breast fed actually does matter for the immune system. So much so that here if babies are in the hospital they will ask the mother if she is able to bring in her own milk that they will then feed that through the feeding tube. They actually keep said milk in the freezer. Of course if it's impossible it is sad and fortunately we do have alternatives for those people.
@@dodopson3211 I agree. It’s very very important for the baby if at all possible.
Well said. The last thing we need more in the west is being more "sensitive".
You’re allowed to be happy; but bragging isn’t polite. It never has been.
How is it financially possible in our society for women to have children before going to school and building careers? Especially when one income from a man (who is most likely not college educated) isn’t enough to support a family? This seems to be the answer for this unplanned childlessness argument but unless the welfare system will suddenly become more generous (which it is NOT), this solution is impractical.
These Chad Williamson videos are the best!
It’s been a fair amount of time since I’ve spent so much time shouting “exactly” & “I’ve been saying this for years” at an interview/discussion/podcast. Thank you & brilliant job! Nice one.
I'll give my mom this: she told me that if I hadn't had kids by thirty to forget it. It's a do or die thing. Know what you want and know what you end up getting. Of course, it's also important to realize that having a child is not (or should not be!) a single person venture. It's not like going to the local car dealership and buying a mini van. There is someone else involved.
Yep and men are not stepping up to the plate so here we go again it’s all women’s fault damn if you do damn if you don’t. Everyone bags on Single moms especially if you have more than one child so yeah I’d like Christian’s and men to tell me again how it’s all women’s fault we get pregnant
My mom had me at 37 and had my brother at 40. My sister had her first child at 31 and second at 33. Many of my female cousins had their children after 35. One of my family friends just had her child at 39, and her mother had her at 40. It’s the same story with many women I know in my life, and all of their children are perfectly healthy. They waited until they were married. It’s not over at 30. Yes, chances to have children or have healthy children are not as favorable later on, but I know too many women having kids past 30 to believe chances are so abysmal. They ALL say that they don’t regret waiting, but most of the women I know that had kids in their 20s say they wished they’d waited. All that to say, I don’t believe it’s due or die at 30. Don’t give up just yet!
Sorry but you're perpetuating bs. I'm 31. All of my peers are having kids now. Early 30s. I'm around the corner. There is absolutely a point after 30.
I had mine at 30 and 32, after being married for ten years. We weren't ready before then.
@@pinchebruha405 Whose fault is it if women get pregnant?
I am 41 and for my generation having a child under the age of 25 was seen as too young. Mostly because, I think, of our extended education. My friends who didn't go to uni had children in their late 20s. People who went to uni had their kids in the early to mid 30s. I'm still childless because of inappropriate partners and not being healthy enough myself. Now I'm old enough to be a good parent, and choose a good partner, I have a wonderful life that would be completely changed by a baby. As a lifestyle choice it makes less and less sense as you get older. And I'd rather contribute as a teacher, which I am, or foster children when I'm older. I have lots of respect for parents because it's a bloody hard job in a tiny two parent family and maybe creating better support systems for young parents would be helpful.
I literally applauded at the end.
I am so glad to hear this is one of your pet obsessions, I’ve been learning about this for about 6 months now and I feel like we are already passed the point of no return, we just don’t realise it because the true impact hasn’t landed yet.
Blame secularism and atheism, as per La Mettrie and historical atheists: without God ppl devolve into endless short term hedonism
But who is ‘we’. Some entire continents growing exponentially.
@@nonfictionone there’s no “some” continents growing exponentially. A few countries are around a fertility rate of 5 . That’s high, but not as high as you might think, especially considering infant mortality rates in these countries are much higher than western countries. Even if a few stay above replacement of 2.1, considering we live in a global economy, these countries at 5 will still suffer.
@@nonfictionone the world works on a balance of trade network’s between countries, when certain countries can’t keep up their end of the bargain the whole system falls behind…
@@nonfictiononename 5
I left a 8 year relationship in 2020 with a person who never wanted to get married or have kids but we got a large house together. I remember feeling like it was a tomb. I didn't want to grow old and die alone with him. I was raised to believe having children young or getting married young would ruin my life. But now I kinda want a family. But it feels so weird to say. Most of the women I know who are my age (late 20's early 30's) with babies are raising them alone. I don't want that. I want my kid to have a father and grandparents and stuff! I personally don't have a family and it's dangerous and lonely. Any emergency I'm in I have to network my friends together to help me. That's not acceptable for raising a child. It's barely reasonable for an adult! Plus, I'm ridiculously poor.
I have a female friend who just had a child, alone, at 32, so she fits in with what you have noticed. As for me, I'm a guy in my 50's who was never particularly in a hurry to have kids, but figured I'd eventually 'meet the right girl' and nature would take its course, and that simply didn't happen. Now it feels ridiculous to still hold out hope that I might find someone to have kids with... does not seem likely at all.
@@impactfoto your 32 yo friend is the worst thing possible. The problem isn't declining numbers of children being born the problem is the disintegration of FAMILY FORMATION. I'll bet your friend will be the first to demand special treatment and taxpayer support because ... "I'm a single mom". Draining the life out of working MEN (& women) to support her choice. She's EXACTLY one of the primary causes of how we got into this situation. Single women shouldn't be allowed sperm donations or taxpayer support nor should "rainbow" people be allowed to adopt.
Sounds like a good start to fixing the situation is prioritizing the professional development of young men and boys.
But not at the expense of girls and women, I hope! Let’s not go back to making THAT mistake again!
@@terry9238 The bankruptcy of the Boy Scouts is a great example of how "women's empowerment" programs don't help women at all, they just destroy what it intended to strengthen men and boys. (Boy Scouts went bankrupt following the programs decision to become gender neutral allowing girls to join in 2018.)
Chris, a personal story. I met my first wife at 21 and we had a fantastic bond though temperamental. I knew from the moment we met, due to medical reasons, she couldn’t have kids. At 31 years old, I couldn’t continue despite the commitment & effort I had made to stay with her. It felt like I was climbing Everest every single day to stat together. There is something innate that drives us to reproduce & I am sure that I caused so many arguments as the innate drive kept pushing me to leave. Today. I am happy to let you know that I have 4 boys with my wife now & we have so much joy with this new parenting part of our lives.
Great stuff as always, Chris! Your channel is very underrated, but I am confident it will continue to grow in popularity because your subject matter is both interesting and important. Keep up the good work, brother! Glad to have you in Texas!
This topic is really interesting to me because my mom had me, her 1st child, at 40. Thankfully no congenital issues from me being that late haha. My parents wanted a 2nd child and tried for one, but it just didn't happen, so they adopted my sister from India. That adoption was an expensive, long process that a lot of would-be parents aren't able (or willing) to complete. There's another world where that fell through too and I remained an only child. I imagine if my parents had waited just a bit longer, my mother might've been forced join the growing amount of women who'll never have kids. Heavy stuff.
That's really profound. What a beautiful thing they did by adoption, that's not an easy process. My 3rd is adopted, we're hoping to adopt another next year :)
@@sitcomchristian6886 Hope it goes smoothly!
While she was single in the 1970s my wife went to Bolivia to visit a friend. She was offered babies by their mothers if she would simply take them to the US. At the time the Bolivian government would issue a birth certificate stating that the child was yours and born in Bolivia all for under $100. Infants weren't required to have a passport to enter the US and flew for free. But today things are simpler. Just go to the border and you can purchase a baby for less than roundtrip airfare to Bolivia.
Feedback: at my town hall meeting our aging rural community in MA gave opinions on regionalizing our aging dispatch system, a proposal endorsed by the Chief of Police. I raised two issues we expect to face in the next 5-10 years: the passing of the boomers (which will generate emergency dispatch calls resulting from abuse/neglect by caregivers of those with loss of function in daily living AND health and Coronary functions ) and an exponential increase in extreme weather events (disrupting all logistics and threatening life through flooding, wind damage and our ports/ rail and highways). What is even more challenging is that these emergencies don’t require someone with a gun/badge or a fire hose). Minimally it would be wise to reallocate our first responder resources to meet actual needs and be able to communicate and allocate those resources.
The inner-citadel thing is absolutely true!
if i can barely pay rent with 4 roomates, than how am i going to provide for a family? this whole conversation revolves around how sad it is that women don't get to have kids... completely ignores that men are a part of this, let alone that men have their own wants, desires and needs... men in my generation are entirely disposable and replaceable
Get out of the big cities. Life is very cheaper outside of those large urban centres. There's a big price to pay for all that convenience and living where it's "hip".
they always ignore the men's side, many men are not having families either. In my experience women treat men like expandable ATM's, i'd rather just stay single and enjoy life the way i want to.
@@ickster23 Sure, now if only more rural areas had great job markets, so we'd have more money left in our pockets afterward.
@@skylinefever Lots of good jobs in the rural areas. Just not the "sit around pushing papers and attending meetings" type of work.
This vid is meant as scare tactics for women. Men are single bachelors but women have to be controlled 🥴
Became a dad at 17, 2nd kid at 21. Would not recommend, but I took my responsibility seriously working hard jobs to provide for them. I’m in my 40s and just now starting the career I wanted while my kids were young. I was hardly ever home with a 70 hr week during most of their childhood. I’m not an antinatalist, just remember that no one asked to be here. (Before you attack me, I love my kids with the very depths of my being and glad they are here).
Sounds like it wasn't the best way to go about it, but you did your best with the way things went. And you should be commended for taking responsibility.
Man you are still quite young and have two adult kids by your side.. Does that feel like having super powers?
Had 4 children early hard work and yes some times felt I wasn’t “there” all the time so so busy working odd hrs etc … we are now married 45 years ( still happy ) and have eight grand children … all close…. you ve done a great job enjoy the rest of your journey with your family 🕊
Salute
I hear you I think its pretty common, me the wife married at W,21 me,22 first kid about year later. I worked a shit for job for 31 years. I had plans of starting my own business and then surprise kid #1 show's up ,so I stayed were I was, I carried the benefits ,and than you start to build longevity, pay raises, PTO , it made it harder drop everything and start something new in the middle of raising a family, and wasn't just me and wife I had to think about more. The only thing was my kids seen me coming home from work night after night dragging my ass through the door, never really complained in front of them ,but they knew. I think that reflected on them.- That said we had some good fun with kids over the years and me and the wife wouldn't change that for anything.
Thanks for this discussion. I've watched this topic for awhile. It's always presented as a statistically substantiated existential threat but appears to be driven primarily by an economically-derived argument, one presumably based on our current consumer-driven and corporately-controlled economy. I find this a myopic perspective that assumes an unchanging socio-economic and governing paradigm; one that can't seem to find solutions other than to toss the responsibility more or less at (or in the general direction of ) the feet of women. The reality is, of course, that the world as currently conceived, no longer works. We have reached the end of the paradigm and we are forced now to consider significant social and economic change; a new paradigm that, perhaps for the first time in our mottled history of economic paradigms, considers the wellbeing of people. Consider the emotional world of most people: Fear. Daily stress at home, at work, especially at school. Economic struggle and instability. Homelessness everywhere. Discrimination. Political and social instability. Cost of medical insurance and treatment. Violence: personal threats. Mass shootings, especially of innocents. Terrorist attacks. Wars and horrific violence against civilians around the world. Hundreds of millions of refugees running from violent conflicts. All, exacerbated by unrelenting internet coverage. Education: Antiquated methodology. Irrelevant and uninspired coursework resulting now in generations having been left behind. A dearth of life skill instruction. A dearth of mental health help. An epidemic of depression. And unprecedented levels of hopelessness. This fear, in and of itself is enough to reduce fertility, suppress sperm production and squelch social interaction. Eventually we will be forced to re-conceived the purpose of government to focus solely on the health and welfare of its people rather than spending trillions on our military industrial business - and other massive expenditures that subsidize massive corporations, control markets and tout that ephemeral 'GDP.' Perhaps then there would be money to mitigate these problems. And yes - I have issues with this topic - especially when we're ostensibly speaking of the end of the world as we know it. The 12-year high school and 4 to 6 year college model could be re-conceived and expanded to present wider, hands-on job experiences to young people. (No, I'm not talking about shop classes.) College shouldn't begin until the mid-twenties. Providing regulated affordable home or apartment options and compensated job training would make getting started in life a little easier. Free or low cost medical and mental healthcare would make childbirth less frightening and not be a cause for financial ruin. These sorts of changes which most of the country's leaders deem impractical and too expensive could provide a more encouraging atmosphere for young people to have families. Meanwhile, consider a woman's reality and what she's contemplating those long uncomfortable nights when she can no longer have a glass of wine. Pregnancy is not pleasant. It, combined with a full time job, is arduous. Childbirth also sucks, frightening and often fraught with difficulties. Raising children is stressful, draining and 24/7. All this, even in these 'enlightened times,' falls predominantly on the woman. And who can afford today's exorbitant childcare costs? Yes, we love our children and nobody said it would be a holiday - but there are many things our society could do make it easier. I find the mother-imperative unconvincing. Most young women I know who got pregnant early (teens and twenties) didn't plan on it. It wasn't a burning purpose. And when they found themselves pregnant, they just carried on because there weren't many other options. Pressure - especially from their churches and the women in their families prescribed what they thought about it and themselves - and they drank the kool-aid and spouted the dogma. And, that's what we're expected to do. That's why the 'Handmaiden's tale' was so chilling. It's classism. Given the statistics I've read about wealthy people having as little as 'zero to one' children - per Mr. Musk, the question this begs is are we not talking here primarily about lower class people needing to procreate more - which is most of the 99%? Amazing! That would revive that old consumer economy and...and solve that pesky national debt problem! How clever of that 1%! Obviously, the crumbling infrastructure, the stultifying financial strain on young people and their inability or unwillingness to drag their already-overwhelmed butts down the mindlessly meandering goat trail of prior generations is already here. So is this inexplicable obligation to pay off the national debt - as if they or any of us had any say in its accumulation. Solutions require good people with good minds in pivotal places of power to think about the preliminary steps to get people-saving ideas introduced. Then, the narratives that lead to making life desirable for young people again must be conceived. And, if in making our children's lives easier, we inadvertently save the world, so much the better. Then, we all get super-hero capes. Thanks for listening.
We’ve already tried communism, it failed and led to mass starvation and political murder everywhere it was tried.
Thats a good comment. Ill save it for later 👍 You listed a good amount of the massive problems we face i the modern world. Thank you
The world has always been this way.
I had babies at 21, thru 38. Its totally do-able and I love having a big family. I wish everyone was having at least 3 kids!! My husband and I were both the oldest of 4 kids, and we loved having a big family, and then having our own big family. Its everything.
Thank you so much Chris for this amazing podcast. You bring up a sensitive topic that is rarely addressed and bring the facts to the table:) Great job!!!
this interview is so good. Chris, the people you bring in and the way you put themes forward is just on top of everything else theres's in here
I met the love of my life at 20 and he was 23 🥰 we got married after four years, and I felt that we were approaching that point Chris mentioned - either we get serious now or there’s no point. Now at 28 and 30 we have 3 children 😇
Its got harder and harder to get established in life now, housing is unaffordable in most countries and you can't raise a kid in a rented flat. Its no wonder so many aren't having kids. There isn't one factor behind it all but I think in the end a lot of people just get to a stage where they just write it off. I think a lot of men are on the fence about it and will roll with a partners wishes.
Exactly, but it's getting harder partially BECAUSE of this problem and graadually will get even worse, so that's why it's better to do something about it now and take on SOME hardship.For example, Getting a relationship that isn't perfect, support each other and don't try to escape it at the 1st superficially challenging level, have 2 kids, Even though you will struggle more financially, bring them up with discipline and to value things that will make them successful in the society,, and then they will support you and society when you are older The liberal mindset has made everyone think that they should search for luxury and comfort, which then in time needs to things getting much harder and getting forced upon you due to the different breakdowns that happen due to that Head debauched mindset, Instead of accepting that life is hard and requires discipline, thoughtfulness, and conscientiousness just to keep society at a standard of living, which is hard but not brutal… In 20 years, if measures are not taken in multiple countries, life will be brutally hard and difficult measures will be forced on everyone except a small elite, like they were hundreds of years ago
I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion about the state of the economy, cost of living crisis, housing market bubble etc affecting this topic. Having children is very expensive, most young people can barely even imagine affording a house, nevermind affording a house plus children. It surely is a major driver of this.
Yet somehow people during and after hellish war times in way worse conditions with completely uncertain future were able to have more children than we do. Really sounds like we are searching for reasons not to have kids
A total collapse of the economy in the first countries to face this problem? New solutions or a totally new economic model?
Very good point.
But I swear poorer nations have a lot more kids and their position financially, relative to western nations is much worse. I think the financial crisis is just a convenient excuse.
If we really had hard conversations with our old people we could go back to multigenerational living. It sucks, but no babies ever is way, way worse.
I think a big part of the problem is expecting other people's kids to pay for your retirement. No, screw you. If you don't have kids (and I say this as someone who neither has nor wants them) you have no excuse to retire poor. I save a lot of money not having kids and I know I'll be old one day so I put money away for retirement. If you blow it all and you end up old, alone AND broke, I have limited sympathy.
Mary Harrington, has some interesting ideas about this regarding changing work practises to accommodate women and children.
For more people to have children, women need to understand that intelligence/academic success is not the only measure of value. Plumbers/electricians/construction workers are also have value. I was an engineer, no women reacted positively to that, I never had a chance to explain that I was degree qualified, it was considered (wrongly) that it was a dirty job and that I was not worthy of consideration. Most people have no idea how much plumbers, electricians etc can earn, they probably out earn many degree qualified people but can find it hard to attract a partner.
One of the things to consider is that a lot of people are priced out of owning their own home where they can start a family. There has to be a psychological challenge of starting a family without having a roof over your head that is yours.
He basically mentions something like this in his documentary "Birthgap". The decline in births in most of these countries coincided with big economic or social shocks. Essentially, more and more people said 'what's the point in bringing a child into a world/society like this?'. One of the most peculiar and interesting things about the post war era, in my opinion, is that we got told often that we'd never had it so good ('society is safer, more prosperous etc etc') and yet much of that period coincided with an increase in childlessness (an indication people are pessimistic about the future).
Yeah but everyone also has a new car and a new iPhone every year and eats out several times a week.
@@forzanerazzurri2339 The childlessness trend started in many countries before these over-consumption trends really took hold. The "stop spending on cars, iPhone, take aways" is a canned, overused response to this problem. I'd wager even that the increase in over-consumption might be at the effect rather than the cause of increasing childlessness. In that people whose societies go through those economic and social upheavals choose over-consumption because they've decided to forego childrearing. As in, 'if I'm not going to have the particular and deeper fulfillment that comes from childrearing -because who in their right mind wants to bring children into this society - then I might as well have hedonic fulfillment'.
@@argh2945 that's a really good point, over-consumption may indeed just be a symptom. Even the Philippines, a relatively poor country with a strong conservative family orientation, anti-abortion laws and 90% Catholic already has a fertility rate of 1.9 in 2022 well below the fertility rate from 2.7 in 2017. No matter how conservatives, the right or the likes of Jordan Peterson try to downplay it, the economic incentives to have smaller families is just too strong in this globalised industrial capitalist economy.
@@rodjayoma7085 Yes, the same reasons keep being used over and again (such as loss of traditional values/religion or over-consumption or lack of state support for families etc) but this childlessness trend has taken hold in both liberal and socially conservative countries, in developed and developing countries, in ones with high levels of state support for child care (Scandinavian ones for example) and ones with low levels of state support for child care (Japan for example).
I appreciate Shaw's description of the current situation. While I might disagree with Shaw's prescription for the future, his expertise is quite useful!
Im not convinced by that answer to the question at 44:20. But the quesrion also felt a bit off to what i assume was the intent. We may earn similar to or even greater amounts adjusted for inflation, but the question needs to then reflect the portion of earnings spent on necessities. Which i dont feel the answer addressed at all.
Thanks!
Amazing. It is a very interesting and difficult topic. I see many "old" women having children at 40+ and suffer the lack of energy and the frustration that comes with It. My sister, for example. I even notice It myself when I play with my niece. This is something some people, men and women, do not take into account, specially if you don't have your parent's help.
⬆ ʜɪᴛ ᴍᴇ ᴜᴘ......💬❤❤.
As a parent of four, the sad thing is I have no grandchildren and may never have any grandchildren at all. I, too, have felt this grief...
My friend is one of three sisters, none of whom have children and are all almost 40, their parents so wanted grandkids. It's worst for my friend because ever since she was little she's wanted to be a mother more than anything, but cancer put a stop to that. Such a shame.
I am firmly in the camp that there are too many people in the world and a decline in population is not going to lead to the collapse of society.
I strongly agree with you 😅
Who’s going to engineer the “stuff”, who’s going to build the “stuff”, who’s going to buy the “stuff”, who’s invent the “stuff”. Do you have any idea where your “stuff” comes from and how many people it takes to make it all happen? Yeah, may want to give this a little more thought.
@@towboattrashfewer people means fewer stuff needs to be made - now so much effort goes into making useless stuff and stuff that breaks and needs replacing
They key really is to keep it from dropping to fast. Which it seem like it may in at least a few countries.
@@towboattrash There's not going to be literally no one on the planet. A very small percentage of people actually do anything productive as far as necessary "stuff" goes anyway.
As a single woman who wanted kids all my life: after my ex-husband left me, I couldn't find any men I'd want to have father my children. I didn't choose career or education: I've actively dated for over 15 years with little luck finding someone who shares my values and wants to have a family. Many of the men I met did want my attention and affection, but when it came down to longer-term relationships; prwn* is what these men seem to prefer over responsibility and real connection. Many single men often openly say they don't want children and I didn't want to raise children without a father. Women get a lot of pressure about childbearing and are easier to measure on population things, but honesty I think there's plenty of evidence that prwnography* has a profound effect on men and that they aren't motivated to build families. Blaming feminism alone is cop-out.
Also most women would prefer to be with men who are close in age who are likely to be closer in values, but in part because it's harder than ever for men to move up in the world, just to enough to sustain a family, and due to an overall idea that men shouldn't marry or should wait for some superwoman with a bunch of exotic traits non-existent in one person, end up waiting too long to grow up.
I totally agree with you 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I don’t want to be a single mother as well and today is very hard to find a good man to be the father of my possible children 😢
😂😂😂 nobody wants a woman with 3 fucking kids and a ex husband meaning both couldn’t control themselves enough to keep the nucleus together and it’s not in the best interest of a man to father another man’s kids plus marriage is a vow you shoes to the world once you got divorced that that wasn’t how you really lived my honor of keeping a vow so exactly why do you need a man of his moral fiber when you my lady do not possess this quality yourself 🧐🖕🏽
@melindawolfUS. It's not corn* the real issue, it's divorce laws and/or child-support + children custody laws that us Men see as downright punitive these days. Financial punishment (unrealistic requirements for child-support payments, and the family courts don't seem to care if a Man can afford them or not), emotional punishment (way too many stories of fathers who are prevented from seeing their kids, and again, the family courts don't seem to care much) That is what's truly giving Men cold feet. On an individual level, many Women are starting to realize/understand that the pendulum may have swung a bit too much against Men. But at this point, Women need to start demanding that the family courts deal with Men in a more balanced/understanding/merciful way. Short of that, we'll see less and less Men willing to commit to building a family, as it's seen as an endeavor that is just too risky financially and emotionally. In other words, the complexity, the "complicated-ness" or male-female relationships has always existed, even when it seemed like the Talibans were in charge in most of the World. No matter what the traditions or Laws were, no matter where, Women didn't/don't hold back much when feeling like expressing displeasure, frustration, etc ... And for Men, that's just part and parcel of that relationship. I bet you that even amongst the Taliban leaders, some at home, in private, abide by the rule of "Happy wife, happy ..." moto. So, it's not the "difficulties of dealing with Women" that really give Men cold feet. It's the fact that the gouvernment and the Courts that for the past 2-3 decades, started "mediating" marital issues, and divorces, as if they are the father-in-law or mother-in-law who could never stand "that dude" in the first place.
@@BrisaRuivaTake another look in your friend zone.
One of the best episodes so far. Thanks Chris for doing this!
The west has below replacement level fertility for 4 decades now. Ppl aren't having kids. There are more old white ppl than children. More white ppl die then are born in most countries. About a third of the population is over 65. Marriage and family formation is at all time lows. Children out of wedlock all time highs. Now more black kids go to university then whites as a proportion. White boys from poor backgrounds do the WORST in schools. More young white ppl identifies as LGBTQ+/trans now. (It's legal in the west, so I'm comfortable with that). But they statistically have fewer children. There is huge national debts/gdp. They have been fighting wars in muslim countries iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and quiet wars in African muslim countries. (What did they achieve? Why did they truly go to all these wars? Who will truly benefit?.....ohh you, your children and grandchildren (if you had any) will pay for these wars from YOUR tax money)). So with all this going on, in 20 short years time who will look after the old in the west? Where will the young ppl be, to work and pay taxes to support the NHS, adult social care, pensions etc....there will be MORE old white pensioners then young white ppl that work and pay TAXES. Where will the new consumers, borrowers and economy stimulatetors come from............ If not from the immigrants and the children of the ethnic ppl and Muslims? Is ALL this muslim ppl fault. What do you think?
Amazing episode.
My mother was so excited to become a grandmother. It was something she always had imagined she would one day be. My brother never had children because he was never able to find a girlfriend. I got a later start at it but have successfully had 3 kids. My mom is a wonderful grandmother, and my kids have really given her a new and exciting adventure in her life... she has several friends around her age. All had children of their own (2 or more), but she is the only one with grandkids. Her friends all grieved for the grandchildren they will never have. They all expected to become grandparents, but each one had to come to terms with the reality that would not be part of their experience and all experienced depression around it. I feel so deeply for not only their children who wanted families but never made it work, and for their parents who will never get to have a sleepover baking cookies with their grandchildren.
Exhibit A in why we do not put expectations on ourselves and our loved ones like that and instead appreciate life for what we do have 🙏
The issue is, we've created a society that's not necessarily children friendly. The way we live and the way things are doesn't encourage ppl to want to have kids. There are so many issues that need to be tackled before people will again feel like having kids is worth it. It's complex. People's values have also changed overtime..due to many reasons. It's not going to be easy to shift this..just like it took years for this to come about, it will take years for things to shift again but not unless something radical happens within the society we have created.
A very interesting podcast, thanks a lot. A few comments. I think the change in the role of grandparents (especially grandmothers) in the raising of their grandchildren is also part of the declining birth rate. There is an increasing trend (e.g Italy) for grandparents to be less available to assist in raising grandchildren due to many factors; e,g. geographical factors, grandparents working and also lack of interest. What could be interesting to study is what the effect of fathers being present at the birth of their first child has on subsequent birth rates. From personal experience I can safely state that seeing my ex wife give birth (long and touch and go labor) was not the life enhancing experience it was cracked up to be. It certainly resulted in me not wanting to have additional children.
Really insightful episode. Thank you Chris and Stephen
So insightful! Thank you so much both!
Governments and companies ask young people: "What do you want??". If I had to sum it up: 1) 1 partner to get paid like 2 people so that the other can stay at home or at least have free childcare (that's how strong the purchasing power was for boomers and before that) 2) Affordable housing that you can totally pay off with 2 yearly salary (that's how the price to income ratio used to actually be in the 60s, it sounds like a fairytail nowadays) 3) Remote work in all jobs that can be done remotely for more personal freedom/family time/lower cost of living 4) Stable employment and economy (can't get laid off at every recession). Affordable healthcare, if you have a family of 4 the chances that someone gets sick is 4x compared to if you're single, and the last thing you want is someone you love to get sick and can't afford the help. 5) Opposite gender roles and dating education. Guys don't want dudes so don't turn girls into masculine creatures, and girls don't want feminine men, it's not rocket science. 6) Divorce and child custody laws reformed to stop making marriage a liability. Where do we find the money for all of that? We do have the economic output for that, it's just going into the wrong pockets and away from the middle and working class, and turning into lamborghinis, airbnbs, diamond watches, holidays, yachts, homes abroad etc.. We could afford that with a much lower GDP in the 60s, it can be done. It just involves understanding that we can't have widespread prosperity when most of the wealth gets extracted by the elite. In the US 68.2% of the total wealth is hoarded by the top 10% of individuals, and then they ask why the 90% of people left out, that have to fight for that 30% share of the pie, don't have kids.
Some of that makes sense. But not the “return to traditional sex roles” part. Neither most men nor most women really want that.