Track battle: 2020 Ford Focus ST vs Honda Civic Type R | Autocar
The Honda Civic Type R is our reigning hot hatch king for under £30,000. But now, Ford is back with an all-new Focus ST to take the fight to Honda. It picks up where the last Focus RS left off, with the 2.3-litre turbocharged engine sending 276bhp through the front wheels. Is that going to be enough to defeat the 316bhp Civic?
Join Matt Prior and Mauro Calo as they take the two hottest hatches of the moment to Llandow circuit in Wales to find out which is fastest and, crucially, which is more fun. Subscribe now: smarturl.it/autocar
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I wish this Focus would of came to the US, still love my 2017 ST it’s fun as hell to drive everyday, awesome daily
Looks clean, too. ST is a great choice.
The one thing I really love about the Focus ST is its lift-throttle-oversteer in fast corners....basically the car rotates like a rear wheel drive car and that is awesome and way better than pushing/understeer in the corner!!!! The 2013+ cars did it too and the stock rubber that came on them was decent too but I would have loved to drive one that had a fresh set of TOYO R888's on it. One thing I hated was the Recaro seat option. I'm 6' 235 and it was like being in a coffin.....the stock non-Recaro seats were great. The Recaros in the Mustang were much wider than the Focus ST which never made sense to me
its a shame for you guys in the US. ford is an american company but honestly the past 30 or so years you guys have really missed out on fast fords. in the UK we have had so many over the years. back in the day if you owned any ford with a "cosworth" badge on the back you where a king 😎😂. nowadays they are worth an absolute fortune. tge mk2 focus st and rs are my favourite. 5cyl engines engine notes 🙌. you guys missed out on those too
Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well! Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48126 Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
3:23 The fuel cover flips open upon cornering..
I know right 😂
you can see that it wasnt fastened.
It's an air brake!!
Car screams: IM HUNGRY!
I wonder if this is a common problem. I know a Type-R owner that has to constantly close the door because it just opens automatically all the time.
either way the ST put up a hell of a fight
Great review, as I'm considering both of these cars. Whoever flies your drone does a great job. Good videography all round, in fact.
This duo is really entertaining. Keep going !
Doesn’t surprise me that it’s so close, Ford have nailed it with this car, reviewed both of these on our channel and agree with all your comments about both. Great vid guys 👌😎
Very close .... type r has got rave reviews everywhere..... type r = RS not the St so st has come a long way 👍🏼
Is it? RS is four wheel drive which makes a bit of a difference compared to Type R. More power too. Still, I agree with your conclusion.
@@jannowak8951 The Type R is in the same performance bracket as cars like the Focus RS, STI, Golf R, etc. All while being FWD.
They cost the same money so ST vs Type R. Honda doesnt have a competitor to RS.
If you watch the video closely, the driver missed a shift on the type R, just before the finish line. So I would take these lap times with a huge grain of salt.
@@tommy4862 only thing I get out of this is that the ST is the better buy vs the RS.
Spot on review. You guys are getting there:)
Does not happen much for me these days, that I enjoy a car review so much that I actually tune in on a normal x1 speed and sit tight beginning to end.. well done guys and thank you!
I can't tolerate the looks of the Type-R although I admire what it can do. The ST is less than half a second slower, and probably the better road car - I'd take the Focus
The type r is a brilliant road car with the suspension settings, so it’s better then the focus everywhere, what do you expect it’s only a ford...
Amen to that @quiller95
@@Shane-zx4ps and the Honda is only a Honda!
But in my opinion, I have mixed thoughts on the Type-R. It does well, but the rear end looks like it got smushed by Godzilla.
@bapster man clearly a Honda fanboy. Did you actually watch the video? The verdict was nowhere near as clear cut as you suggest. One chose the Honda, one the Ford. And Ford Performance are on a real roll at the moment. The Fiesta ST is widely recognised as the best in its class and the Focus ST also getting v good reviews. Type R clearly a great driver's car...if you can get over the looks
Another excellent review from these two. Insight balanced with emotion, and eminent clarity. The best.
Enjoying this test format guys.
Quick question and apologies if I missed it but did you have the focus st in race mode for this comparison?
Love them both great vid guys. ..
I have an 2012 Fiesta zetec 1.4 petrol, just a basic car but I absolutely felt in love with it. never owned an Ford, and I was sceptical about purchasing it.. but I took me completely for the price/quality.. sound isolation, comfort and good speeds for a little engine as 1.4. it kicks very nice when pressed and responds in time when needed. I paid about 4000£ with 45k miles but was totally worth it. Honda is a dream car for me as well, but maybe one day who knows 👍
.44 is a lot closer than I thought it would be, but it's only a 47 second lap. I think a lap around the Nurburgring would be seconds difference.
The ST is the winner for me, its not out there to beat the typer r that's what the rs is for. Let's be honest it was down on power and still kept up. Yes tyres make a difference but they were both on good sets of tyres.
well said
Kept up? Run 20 laps of this circuit and see how well it's keeping up. Would be almost half a lap by that point. I imagine the type R wouldn't misshift going onto the straight every lap like it did this one, so it'd only get worse for the ST
The Civic Type R FK8 is £450 cheaper than the ST
@@bat33.12 yes but imagine having to drive around trying ur best to avoid meeting a ST on the road let alone the RS when ur in a Type R, even tho the "Type R" is supposed to be the top spec of the Honda Civic's it is a bit embarrassing knowing you can just keep up with a Focus ST - which is 2nd best to the RS
@@jmarston1043 i was inside a Focus RS and could not wait for the ride to finally end , my whole body was hurting , its not always about top speed but also on total car performance and the type r is a beauty to ride with .. if you sit inside one you will understand the difference ... also if i am not wrong the RS is much more expensive than the Type r ?
You have to give it to Ford chassis engineers...The Focus is about 40bhp down on the Honda yet it very nearly kept up! No way could it do that if the chassis, suspension and brakes weren't on point. The price though..... For £26/27k it would be the obvious class leader but £32k is a BIG jump over the old ST. In fact thats the same price as the old RS!!
Add in the performance pack and that takes the ST to £33,000
Actual price is lower, that's just Ford's bullshit list prices. I think everyone I've seen who's bought one has had it for around 30k with pretty much every option.
@@bat33.12 That is an interesting point.. The ST was suppose to be an affordable hot hatch.. At that price, it isn't..
1st car I had was Honda Si 4thg but my ST is life .
Mega bro, MEGA!
Love these cars and hope they will exist well into the next few decades.
.44 seconds slower for a car you can drive all day everday is impressive. Also the Sound in the ST is much better and how it should be in a hothatch 💪🏼
The engine sound in the Ford is partly synthetic though. The Type-R sounds great in real life. Also, the Type-R would be perfectly fine as a daily.
Comparing Focus to Honda. Possible only in UK and 'Murica.
@Ken Healy yea hopefully, i bought one 😅
Hopefully they used right headgasket this time.
@@jareknowak8712 You can easily drive the Type R "all day everyday." LOTS of people comfortably and happily daily drive it.
Tires could potentially play a big part in those lap times.
tyres also play a part too :)
It does, and probably downforce for the Type-R as well
2:09 fuel cap is open 😂
Is michel better than continental contact 6, I didn't understend what you speek.
ST is the first sport car/hatch that Ive not modified, its perfect.
Those lap times are closer than I thought they'd be
The Focus ST it's one of the best cars there is for the budget price...
not anymore
@@8SpeedNate who is first ?
Lost 0.5sec or more coming out the final corner with that miss-shift and banging on the limiter lol
On their video: Track battle: 2019 VW Golf GTI TCR vs Honda Civic Type R, he makes 46.60sec so there you go
Any video st vs i30n?
Half a second lost easy with the miss shift in the type r lol
The st has 30ps less and as seen more fun the nurburgring isn't just down the road ,wishing was lol
I have a 2014 Focus ST and I'm still in love with it. I'm still in shock about why Ford stopped selling the Focus STs in the US. It is a great car.
way more of a market for it in europe
@@sassythesasquatch8006 I can attest to that. I used to sell for Ford. People would come in to test drive an ST, but needed an automatic 🤦🤦
@@TravelWBrennanMegan yup wayyyy different culture out there when it comes to driving
Brennan Perry g
Charlie Cobra Me too, I have a 14 Fiesta ST and love, I was going to get the new one but Ford pulled the plug, big mistake. ST’s rule.
I'd love to see the mk2 rs vs the mk4 st
The chassis in my dc2 was awesome😁
I knew for sure the Type R would be quicker but am quite surprised how fast the new ST is comparably, And they went up to the 2.3 from the 2 liter!?
@Dr Beechas for real though, you probably don't want much more than 300HP on a FWD car. That 2.3 block in stock form is good for 400-420HP, which is more than enough.
While it's yet another entertaining video from Autocar, what does half a second matter to the vast majority of buyers? They're both relatively quick cars. Ok, great. The question I'd ask myself is this: which one is more engaging and enjoyable to drive? (Also think brand loyalty is a major decision factor here.)
Set aside even Brand loyalty, the Civic is screaming I am fast, and the ST is a nearly a sleeper for the untrained eye. So if Track days are not really your thing and you are not the only one to decide on which car to buy properly the ST will be the choice - while if you are into track days and you do not care how other people might look at you in your car, then the Civic is the one to have. But personally I like them both, but I find the new Focus design not so engaging - it is a more mature and practical design with a global DNA fitting more markets, while the Civic still is the stand out from the crowd hot hatch no matter where you will drive it. I would certainly have more considerations between the last generations where the Focus had a much more distinctive look. But perhaps all this will change with a Focus RS version.
Love my mk3 focus rs but these new st’s look quick, excited to see the rs
More like which one is more reliable.
@William Also reliability has a major part to play. One back in the day Stood for Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) apparently and the other well Ive got the EP3 civic Type R from 2005 150k miles on the clock rev to near 9k.
The track is very short with slower corners - you can bet the difference on a full length track will be amplified to a couple of seconds
That's a close time for the positions those cars hold in the market place
Ive got the new ford focus st line x wish i had this instead though
I am curious what tires they put on this car. All I could find was that they're Michelins. Other then that, I wish it came to the US as I would've waited for this with the performance pack instead of getting a Veloster N w/ performance pack. This car just looks more normal and looks like it drive more mental than the Veloster N. Plus, to beat a Type-R that comes stock with the Continental SportContact6 on a small go-kart type track, that's quite good. The N would need a much better tire than the PZ4s that comes stock with it if it wants to have a chance to beat a Type-R on a similar track.
Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!! Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48126 Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
I love both of these cars.
I'd like one of each . . .
By the sounds of it, you guys had the ST it in normal mode...I could not hear the pops and crackles you get from the ST in sport or race mode.
8:00 that tripod xD
Well I'm happy the ST lives on over seas but it looks too egg like in shape it looks really bad but looks good Performance wise, the type R and ST need to trade some body characteristics to balance them out lol
Vtec has nothing to do with turbo lag, it's tuned to maintain power top end all the way to redline
That time difference is very small, the new ST is quite impressive.
No, it is not small! Half of a second on a 47 seconds lap it is huge! Go for 10 laps and you live the Focus behind for 6 seconds. And this is a very small and narrow trak, the Honda didn't had the chance to use all the power and speed it is capable of.
@@lungulet I do get your point, however I do think the civic type R is a lot more of a track focused car than the ST, also the civic is more powerful, I guess most people who would buy these car's will never push them to these limits on track, for that reason I think hands down the Focus will be the easier Car to live with daily for year's to come. However I do love the civics track ability, just not to keen on the aggressive styling. Cheers.
@@lunguletthe brand new Focus RS will tell you a story
Lungu Gabriel it’s the ST though, the Honda should be MUCH faster, it’s not even Fords fastest hatch. That’s the RS which will clearly be faster than the Honda!
@@lungulet come on dude, what's the deal with using 10 laps to exaggerate your point? The result is the same. Half a second difference on a 47 second lap is really not bad for a car with 40 less horsepower and which isn't built to be a track car. The ST did very well.
Megane Rs trophy R please 🙏
Fun WINS
Civic type r vs Focus rs who is the winner?
Type r always rocks
That’s close 😱
Half a second in a 47 secs lap is big difference.
Negligible if you just wanna drive on the roads though
Cact I I agree and then none of these cars really make any sense
@@kpsig exactly... would rather have something with awd or rwd if i wanted fun / speed, not a fwd car made for tracks :P golf r and bmw m140i / audi rs3 if it was a hatch but then again golf r is the only one that makes sense and where im from the kia stinger gt is the same price soooooo
Half a second over such a short lap is good, but that miss shift cost time, not sure why he couldn’t just re do the lap
No kidding. It was a pretty substantial flub-up. I think it would have reflected greatly in the time.
Gumpy 49 cause he owns the ST
Artificially creating competition 😂
They probably did a few laps a piece and chose the faster of the laps between both cars.
@@rubbish6017 and didn't show the footage from that lap? Seems odd if you're going to record your hot laps.
Its like comparing the impreza to the evo you pick the impreza to drive to the tack and the evo for the track
Focus ,I like both but the Focus for a daliy :)
The Focus ST look's like a bus on wheels going round them corners , The Type R looks so much better , when you see them on the road, they look awesome , a proper mean looking sports hatch
To each their own, being in the market for a hot hatch I think the Type-R looks ridiculous at the back. This ST is too restrained in the front though, it looks just like a regular ST-Line. The back is much nicer though.
So sad we here in the U.S. will never get this car. I would trade my 2018 Focus ST in for one today. You could tune this one back up to RS power and have even more fun for a low price of $500.
Yes!! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well! Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48126 Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Wow shows that the focus st has come along way but tbh you can have as much fun if not more in a fiesta st which i do for near as £10000 less
Lol the fuel cover 🤣🤣🤣
# CrazyWithGau Can’t believe he didn’t shut it properly 😂
Type R all day, Every day. I quite like the ST but the Type R is just that bit more agile & responsive. It can carry a bit more speed through the bends too.
Good cars
Younger me definitely goes for the Civic but that ST is probably a better car to actually own and be seen in by other humans with eyes
I couldn't of put it better.
MrSlash00r Honda has good reliability but yes I agree👍🏻👍🏻
The current me knows after buying two Ford ST products that the paint on the Honda won't start peeling off after two years because it's rusting underneath, so I'd buy the Honda hahaha.
I've never had anything but positive reactions to my Type R- Its an aggressive looking thing but it generates only admiration. I'm not fussed or bothered about "selling" it to others, I'm just relating my experience.
@@dblue7711 They look quite menacing in Night hawk black 👍
The lovely TypeR rulez the world!!!
New Mountune ST will be interesting
MP330 is out and wow..
Arif Azar must check it out thanks
Type R has grown on me - it looks dramatic rather than ugly
The new Type R grips! There is fuel cover to tell you.
I'm VERY impressed by the ST here. Nice to know there is a non-horrible looking alternative.
What I did tend to notice is that the Focus ST is gaining at straight pieces. This is BTW where all Fords have been strong in the past towards their competitors. Except for the Focus RS. Since this track was mainly bends and curves I think that's also why the Focus ST has lost. The Civic Type-R is such a refined cornering device. Where as the Focus ST is rather a hot hatch fun daily driver car with a lot of potential. I think though that the Focus RS would have done better here. But this also underlines the weaknesses of both Ford cars. The Focus ST does way better with the new 280HP engine and would prefer even more such as 325Hp and I mean in the ST not the RS. Whereas the Focus RS would be way better if they'd shelled in a 2.7V6 and giving it 425HP. I know I know emissions. But then again. These cars are not for the masses. So you do not pollute that much. And take an example by Aston Martin. Simply produce a Smart under licence that nobody tends to buy and press the average emission of your lineup. But I think that with the 325HP the Focus ST would do way better against competition and would have won here. And the Focus RS would have been able to stand against the BMW M2 and the Mercedes A45 AMG with 425HP V6. And we all know from the Ford Fusion Sport that Ford is able to make this engine against a good price so money is not the problem. I think Ford also fears that the Focus RS would cannibalize the Mustang GT. But since these are totally different classed cars this won't be the problem.
Sticking a heavy V6 in a FWD hatchback really sounds like a terrible idea, even if they had space to put it in.
It is not possible that the engine size willHe takes her out of the selfieFor the category Secondly, the Focus Rs product has been cancelled
That focus is a God on the corners
please make a track battle between TypeR and A35
I wish the Focus ST was available in the USA! My 2016 ST3 is a blast but I would trade up for the new 2.3 liter ST!
Yes, I agree!! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well! Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48126 Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Did anyone else notice the fuel cap open when the Type R went round the corner at 03.22
Where was the st’s pops and bangs 💥? My st mk4 does it all the time 🎉
Surely we’ll see a no-lift-shift fitted to the next gen of these manual hot hatches
Paddy Downey Which is crazy because the Cobalt SS had a no-lift shift function like ten years ago. Not saying that made it a great car or anything, but it was ahead of its time in that respect.
Im a current ‘16 ST owner and was thinking of upgrading to the Type R, but its only .4 quicker than the ST and the ST is lesser than the RS which we can expect to come out soon. I would take the ST because its a more balanced road hatch and looks a whole lot better than the over aggressive styling of the Type R.
If you're looking to buy a car because of some slight difference in track times or what some brochure says its power figures are...you're looking at a car for the wrong reasons. I love my 2016 ST. I have FBO with only a Cobb Stage 3 (93)...it sounds, drives, and looks better than any Civic I've been in. I think the TypeR's are very capable, benchmark setting cars for FWD. But they're not that appealing, cost too much, and I think are over rated. The 2015-2018 FoSTs are pretty much one of the best looking modern hatchbacks out there. Personally, I'd keep the ST and wait until you can find a reasonably priced used RS and enjoy the even better looking, more powerful Focus platform. Thats what I plan on doing. I have a RaceRed ST, but the only RaceRed RS is the '18 limited edition and they're rare here in south Texas especially for a reasonable price. Prob stick with my ST for a while lol
Lol I was refering to the choices between these two...I would choose the ST because its more of a everday car than just a hot hatch and its more appealing in looks...and just like you said, the price. I never got a chance to ride in one so I cant say how it performs but by you being a ST owner yourself, I take your word for it because you know how well the ST drives and handles. I too was eyeing a RS for my next car and beef it up to 600 hp. I was also thinking if I dont get the RS, why not swap its drivetrain into the ST...havent seen anyone try that yet, probably because that can be quite expensive but may be worth it you thinking of a sleeper ST. Idk, but definitely a RS over a Type R....I agree.
Focus for me.
Honda for me anytime .
Shouldn’t they be comparing the civic Si vs the focus st? And the type r vs the rs?
Perfect🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Anybody get the impression that guy thinks the Type-R is a "serious bit of kit"?! Couldn't tell you why. Also... MEGA BRRRRRRUVVV!! (After viewing some more vids from this otherwise great channel the above covers 75% of his reviews about any car.)
Nice comparison witb that ford but the honda just incredible 4 doors and only a sec or so behind two door megane with race cage full track spec smh comparing apples to apples that civics on another planet
What ? Am i not understanding this or did you just say that the ST isn't a 4 door ? There are alot of other things that stand out in your comment that don't make sense to me but that is the biggest one.
I can’t wait to see a next gen Focus RS to go up against the Civic Type R!
You're going to be disappointed I'm afraid. Ford has announced that there will be no next-generation Focus RS :( And therefore, probably not another RS ever again, unfortunately
Nice to see Ray Winstone has a day job.
Where’s that bloody legend Sutcliffe
D 13 saw him at EVO recently.
bit of kit... yep... got it
Audi S3 or a mk2 5 pot for me, cheap as chips (Focus), common as muck but give you the smile factor 🙃
@Nims A What drugs are you taking? The old 5-cylinder is a much more tunable engine and any mk2 RS will easily leave any mk3 ST for dead both on the straights and in the corners.
If you aren't a speed freak but enjoyed a quick rd car the focus. I'm not that, so the CTR please
As good as this was do both cars come with cup holders ? You need to start looking at the important stuff 👍😂
Think the focus RS is more in the honda bracket in my opinion. Love both cars
We don’t get the focus in the US which is a shame. I’d kill for an ST wagon as my daily. And here in Detroit it would likely be much , MUCH less than the Type R which the dealerships here really gouge on.
I agree! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well! Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48126 Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Even if the price was similar to the Type R, I'd still choose the Focus ST based on looks, sound, and driving experience alone, not to mention the Type R's gearbox grind issues. I can't stand the styling of the Type R honestly
For somebody who is going to do a lot of tracking, or really wants a serious car, get the civic. The focus is plenty serious for a car that you want to use everyday, and it is probably the better everyday car, so if you want that then take the focus.
I'll have the Honda
If you could afford the insurance. And the crap infotainment system. Its a great car.
So quick fuel filler cap went flying!
Love the civic type R ❤️
What abouth BMW 1 series???
I just wish the Type R was a bit more understated looking.
I own a Type R and I'd take it over the ST any day but I still gotta give some respect to the ST, I wish they'd sell these in the U.S., not that I'd buy one but I'd just like to see more cool hot hatches.
Tropikal - Same with me. I’m a Ford guy so I would take a st any day but respect the fact that Honda can still make a fwd hot hatch that can keep up with awd hot hatches like the RS and golf R
I would buy a Focus ST if it was sold here in the states because I don't like the styling of the type R at all. Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well! Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48126 Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Mr "Mega" over here. lol
3:20 gas cap flys open lol. I love Honda's but that's hilarious.
Lol the gas cap doesn't just fly open. It was never closed properly to begin with and as a result, opened on its own.
@@djs18 I bet, still hilarious tho
Compare AT to MT focus st.
LOL fuel cover gone wild!!!