What If America Was FULLY Neutral During WW1?
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Despite only getting involved in the war in 1917, the United States was one of the most influential nations during the first world war thanks to their sheer economic weight. Who American supported, traded with, loaned money to and generally supported had the massive advantage of the strongest world economy on their side. In our timeline, this side was the Entente, who even before 1917 enjoyed massive trade relations with the US keeping the economies afloat, and American loans keeping their budgets tight. What if this was different though. What if, in an alternate scenario, the United States managed to enforce freedom of shipping during the first world war, and Germany had the luxury of equal trading relations with the Americans.
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What if the Russian empire survived to this day.
What if Japan took over China in 1940????
What happens to the Dervish? Are they ceded Somalia?
What if the USA and Japan became Georgist after World War Two?
What if Australia became Georgist in the Great Depression? in this scenario, Australia implements a Georgist land value tax to help deal with the effects of the great depression.
Alternative history is actually an important part of history because it tells us a lot about WHY things happened the way they did.
@andrew slater yes
Better than the average public school, lmao
As long as is it done with research and critical thinking. Some of these channels just spout what they *want* to have happened instead of what realistically *could* have happened
exactly. all historical discussion is actually about this.
@@wildfire9280 Better than school in general, I didn't even know Ancient Egypt and Rome was a thing for years because the only "historical events" I learned in school were the World Wars and the Cold War (with the dictators that goes with them). The schools where I live sucks *.
What if Serbia was fully neutral during WW1 lol
Imagine the Serbian government just… throws the black hand under the bus and tries to stay away from them
@@Alex-yy5wo "we're friends, right?" "......" "right....?" "AY AUSTRIA THIS GUY RIGHT HERE" "SHI-"
@@beanos8024 "Yooo Austria don't do anything you're gonna be sorry for, here. That guy is hanged in public, friends?"
*Roll Credits*
Lmao
While US intervention may not have been a deciding factor in Germany's defeat in WW1, I seriously doubt that Germany would unconditionally surrender to the Entene like they did IRL. Actually a lighter peace deal like this could make for an interesting alternate history scenario to explore.
No, if Germany surrendered without Europe, they would barely exist, the US is the only nation that was against "Imperialism - So Say", the Allies wanted to annex chunks of land, without care of the population their . . America was like since I helped you, I will break down Germany but not "annex" their entire country (looking at Britain and France, + Italy). . . . USA only liberated in so say . . .
@@bobbyuuu1238 yeah but they wouldn't ever unconditionally surrender if America doesn't join. They would be winning militarily
@@bobbyuuu1238 which Germany wouldn’t accept a peace deal like that
There was no unconditional *surrender* in WWI, that was WWII having learnt the lesson of WWI. The Germans in 1945 where surprised that unconditional surrender was their only option.
@@jonathanbuzzard1376 Unconditional, less conditional; the same point still stands. They couldn't take as much from Germany or impose as many terms like total demilitarization like they could IRL.
I love your channel. No moronic predictions, no outlandish claims. Subbed.
Fellow Georgian B)
Fellow Enclave B)
nah
wait I've seen u before did u comment on ballin country version
Most underrated History Channel. I love how your analyses are always realistic and based in fact, rather than what we WANt to happen
eh. If you think about it a second time you can almost always find a major flaw or two in each vid. here for example he ends the vid with saying france will pay back its loan about 20 seconds after claiming that germany will punish them so hard that they basically become economically dependant. He also ignores the fact that GB may suffer from colonies probably wanting independence waaaay earlier due to the state of the world. I feel like he is mostly an allied biased Alt history channel with little regard for the bigger picture. Better than most...but biased stays biased
@@andrefasching1332because the allies are the only faction with realistic win chances also he said that they will start to not pay in the entirety germany got economically destroyed yet they still paid their debt
@@andrefasching1332but i do agree about the colonies as they would definitely want to be more independent and the empire would overall be weaker but not too weak
Here's an interesting question: What if the Austrian army had had tanks in 1914? There was an officer who recognized after a wargame how wars in the future will play out with current technology, and so came up with a concept for what we would call a tank today, which he proposed to the Austrian army in 1910. However, they rejected the idea, as they didn't believe his prognosis. If we imagine a world, however, where the Austrians did buy this concept, how might it affect the course of the war?
Probably not much, the tanks that participated on the side of Britain and France surprised German soldiers, but that’s it; there were too primitive and too few in order to do something relevant
Without America Entente is nothing
@@jqness4461You’ve got another 4 years to perfect the design, sure you’re developing weapons in peacetime rather than by actual wartime experience, but by the time war breaks out, we could imagine tanks would be a formidable weapon on the battlefield and might actually allow AH to make good gains against Serbia. Tanks would definitely not win them the war though.
"Germany always wins a world war if America doesn't get involved" - Matt Mitrovich, the Alternate Historian
Except that's not true. They basically lost the napoleonic wars until the russians saved them. Not to mention numerous wars as the holy roman empire.
@@mappingshaman5280 but you have to understand that germany’s political structures were so much different back then that they do not equate to the German Empire’s capabilities. The HRE wasn’t centralised and there was a lot of infighting, which is why they did not have much success in the wars they fought from the 15th - 18th century, plus it was mostly Austria calling the shots (a gross oversimplification of what actually happened but still applies). Prussia itself was not enough to combat the French at that time, due to the military strategies of Napoleon and how French military tactics at that time beat the Prussians, and they did not have the economic capabilities compared to post-Napoleonic wars, where they gained the rich lands of the Rhineland. So while it is on surface level true that “Germany” hasn’t won wars without outside parties intervening, it’s important to understand that the German Empire as an entity had formed much after the periods you mentioned, upon which they on their own had the legitimate power to combat the major power of Europe had it not been for America’s support of the Entente.
@@im_b_ran except to start Britain did stop ships going to Germany and the US tried to throw its weight around, which didn't work on Britain forcing the US to choose a side so we know this scenario was probably never possible. 1) the video only looks at the US being neutral and Britain for some reason automatically just goes with it. when in fact there are many options for Britain, china was industrializing and had massive agriculture growing too at this point, and with the Suez under entente control they could blockade Germany and abandon the US with very little extension to resources movements, and possibly free some ships up. 2) when it comes to manpower the British empire alone had 4x more population than the central powers combined, double the population if the US joined the central powers, include France's empire too then if push came to shove im sure more manpower could be encouraged, plus japan was offering tens of thousands of troops for the war that could have been used. 3) even if we leave out the potential for china to help Russia with direct supplies, the video leaves out the fact Germany sent Lenin to Russia to cause the collapse, and that was because Germany wasn't doing well, if the video wants to pretend like everything would happen exactly as it did in reality, then he needs to come up with a reason to replace why Germany sent Lenin, because if they're doing better in this timeline there's no reason to suggest they would have even thought of it. if you ask me this video is about as well thought out as the USA vs the world video, where it just pretends everybody just watches and does nothing while america attacks everyone.
@@mappingshaman5280 that wasn't Germany
Na if the USA wouldn't have taking part in WW2, Germany would have lost it anyway. Instead of the occupation as we now it, in our timeline, they probably be completely occupied by Russia instead.
I swear the map with German Empire without Memel is driving me nuts
I was thinking the same thing lol
The root cause of Germany's unrestricted submarine warfare was to counter the British blockade of Germany. Also, it was an answer to the way that British merchant ships were armed and began attacked German submarines when the submarines approaches British merchant ships. Originally, German uboots would approach a British merchant ship, surface, and announce that it has been captured, and have the sailors evacuate the ship, then it would be sunk with torpedos. Later the British start to arm the merchant ships and also have destroyers disguised as merchant ships, so they can fire upon the subs when they surface. So Germany uboots started to have unannounced attacked on civilian ships, that was the origin of the unrestricted submarine warfare. The key question is if the US stays absolutely neutral, then the US should be objecting to the blockade of Germany. If not, then how would US trade with Germany? So if US insist on trading with Germany, then the UK would stop US shipping like it did in real life. And that would eventually become a causus belli like in 1812. So US cannot stay absolutely neutral without eventually having to cave either to the UK or till over against the UK. US could continue to trade with UK and Germany at the same and insist that both UK and Germany would not attack its shipping wherever they are headed, but that is not very likely.
It was the dumbest thing Germany ever did. If they had any tact. They would have traded with the US to. If the US was truly Neutral, well German Money is good to.
The Entente surrendering while they are still militarily capable is very realistic, Germany tried to do the same but too late
What? The entente wouldn’t have surrendered here, they knew how shit germanys position was.
The Central Powers had a huge moral boost with Russia's collapse, trade through Turkey and Central Asia was restored and their enemies didn't even capture any territory of the Central Powers with the exception of the defeated Russia. Entente had a huge moral hit, riots among the French soldiers and they were as broke as the Central Powers. Both sides would agree to a negotiated piece in this scenario.
I was hoping he would talk about the French mutany in 1917. I am not sure France would have been able to go on the offensive ever again without America .
@@miwi9883 lol
Technicaly, the entente held alot of ottoman lands in the Middle East. Aswell as some very small border territories, both in german Lothringen, the bulgarian border I think and the austrian-italian border.
@@sofiaormbustad7467 Apart from the Ottoman losses the occupied territories were small enough to say that they technically didn't occupy territory of the central powers
@@miwi9883no it would have just not anytime soon. The french also didn’t need offensives, they needed to wait. So bad Britain and France merely held the line by 1918 or 1919 they’d be able to cut through German lines like butter.
Usa would probably use the netherlands as a neutral port to trade with germany
That would probably mean that the Netherlands would have a massive economic boom during the war instead of suffering despite being neutral.
That is how germany traded in rl but brits got to that quiet quickly so every ship going to neutral countries trough naval blockade was checked by tonnage so they compared imports of those countries before the war and then allowing only enough of tonnage to pass trough blockade so they can survive
Nice to see that quality content is being rewarded in the form of a sponsorship.
Would love to see this scenario continued! Great job as always :)
This channel is far too underrated rn, can’t wait to see it grow from here!
Great video as always Mr.Potential! I have seen that you're channel has grown quite quickly recently and that now you also have a sponsor which means that within a year you would have tens of thousands of subscribers.I hope you can become a large youtuber and make a living out of youtube very soon
*your
@@sharkronical can you cope harder
So glad I subbed underrated channel
Plz make a part 2, This was so interesting
Really liked this video and i would love the see the continuation of this what if into the 20's and 30's
Great video! Keep up the good work
Not sure that the Entente could convince Italy to join their side in a world without US economic support of the Entente. Perhaps they would adhere to their original treaty obligation to join the Central Powers or more likely simply remain neutral. If so, Italy would not lose anything, in 1919 ne economically stronger than in our timeline, and the Central Powers would be even stronger because Austro- Hungary would not have been sidelined by Italy at Capareto.
The economic support was limited. The aid they got mostly came from Britain they also mostly wanted land gains and they were promised that.
1) even if Britain keeps the North Sea blockade, the US can still export to Central Power ports such as Trieste & Fiume, which would also alleviate the situation in AH. 2) as Germany can o longer depend on submarines, they might be pushed to use the Kiel navy, which was oretty much unused in WW1. 3) by making Germany dependent on the US, Washington can dictate who can get which Caribbean colony.
I really enjoyed the video!
Great content, keep it up
This channel should get more attention and really can compleat with the big alternative history channels.
man i love this channel so much i find the vid very intresting!
Hi! Political Science and Economics student, with a family with a deep love of history with a personal passion for the subject as well. I really like your videos especially some of the more recent ones and kinda wish you had more like this on what ifs that interest me. That said as for what I think would happen from here at least for the US as Europe would be alot harder to predict in this scenario in my opinion as it would be filled with just as much if not more political turmoil and unpredictable situations as OTL. But the US I believe would slowly begin to leave its isolationism entering into the 20s for a couple of reasons. 1. The War: Without direct involvement in the war I believe the anti war movement will slowly die off over time, especially as the political groups that supported that sentiment largely begin to focus either on other things, lessen in power, or change in sentiment due to a feeling by some of having 'missed out' a sentiment some nations that stay neutral at times seem to fall into though that's far from set in stone however nothing truly is in alternate history anyways. Resultingly I believe America will increase its interventionism in Latin America, and potentially begin to involve itself in Canadian Domestic politics depending how affected they are by the aftermath of the Great War, especially as America is prone at least in this time period to intervene one way or another in its unstable neighbors in order a continued stable beneficial status quo. Am I saying there will be any armed conflict? hell no, dont see that at all unless Canada breaks off from the UK entirely and suddenly collapses somehow. No I am talking economic, diplomatic, and political involvement with Canada. With said Involvement potentially resulting in a greater intermingleing of American and Canadian political and social movements. 2. The Economy: With the aftermath of the war alot of International trade will be rather damaged, and the ability of foreign nations to repay debts to America uncertain at least in the short term. Combine this with the drop in prices with the end of war time prices, while this will still see the largescale economic rise of America, even more then IRL potentially it will nonetheless in my opinion draw America out to become more involved in International trade. Takeing up part of the mantle the British and French 'empires' held as major importers and exporters of goods, particularly exporters with Germany, many of its puppets, and likely much of Europe as a whole becoming massive importers in the aftermath of the war both in the short and long term depending on the nation in question. Ukraine for example will have a immense demand for industrial goods of countless variety and the sheer size and population of the nation will make it difficult for Germany alone to supply its needs, especially as the German Empire recovers and keeps much of its industry oriented towards its military in order to maintain their enlarged Empire. This will hold true for many rising nations such as China, Japan, British Raj, and more. Further as profits grow as America involves itself more in global trade, the more it may be tempted to be involved further. This will in my opinion see a even stronger roaring 20s, at least in America. However it will leave America much more vulnerable to international trade disruptions especially involving conflict between major nations. Thus I believe a future economic crisis is inevitable still, however it might be delayed until Japan conducts a major invasion of China, or a new major war breaks out in Europe. Depending on how the economic crisis is handled America may once again turn isolationist however due to its great global trade ties at this point such isolationism could worsen the economic crisis even further. 3. Cultural Shift: The 20s will see a large if temporary major cultural shift in America that will make Americans much more open to the world. Full of hope, optimism, and other good feelings in a general time of good feelings. This would mostly see its effects in terms of more open global trade, and greater intervention willingness in the Americas however I doubt the America people will support any far off overseas adventures in Asia or something. 4. Late 20s Dust Bowl: While Agriculture would be doing great for most of the 20s, inevitably nature will do as nature does and theres not much that can change the Dust Bowl crisis showing up. However due to Americas position on the global stage, they can supplement any agricultural issues with its farmers by finding new markets from them. What people often don't realize is America was still sitting on a massive amount of foodstuffs during the crisis and food prices were rising from the crisis briefly and crashing in a manner that was ruining farmers from lack of demand. However this alternate America would be able to leverage its agriculture to export overseas more capably, especially among nations in Europe and Asia with good demand for agriculture, especially cheap foodstuffs.
I love your presentation of history and your narrative skills.
Great job!
This guy needs to make a channel called "Impossible History" where he only covers theory's so ridiculous that there is no timeline where it could have happened
You should definitely make a part 2 on this lol
Congrats on the sponsor. I appreciate how it fits the topic of your videos more than some boring mobile game or whatever!
You gotta make a part 2
Thank you for this edu-vid. I will post this video to my class (for debate). SPSV - Vallejo, Ca.
Bro, it’s amazing to see that you’re finally getting sponsors! Keep on the grind! Great vid as always🤘
Good vid. I think it was wise to cut the vid when you did considering how many times people have pondered already on what a post ww1 world would look like if Germany won
One thing I dont understand, why do US citizens matter if the USA goes to war or not? It's a warzone, it's contested waters, if some US citizens go to Ukraine and get killed in the cross fire then that would not impact the USA to go to war, yes, yes, nukes, modern warfare, different times I know. But its just so bizar how the USA was supplying the British and even using civilian ships to bring in weapons and then act surprised and outraged that Germany would sink those ships. Like what's going on here? Did they have a propaganda media or something working for the government or the British?
Because the US was much closer to the UK and France and had almost no relationship at all with Germany. The Entene better represented American values like Democracy and Britain was obviously more culturally similar to the US.
The Americans, including the government, didn't know the Lusitania was a active participant in the war. The British made it look like the Germans attacked a uninvolved passenger ship.
@@rafaelrijo8175 hahaha, not they knew, this is what we call ''propaganda'' it's where you ignore facts and often make up your own to fit your narrative to reach a specific goal. like how the USA and the British used the Zimmerman telegram as propaganda and a means to justify getting to ww1 which they were already funding, supplying and wanted to join (their elites in charge) since pretty much day 1.
I really love your videos, even if I often disagree with you but I think that's exactly how alt history should work. In the end we can only speculate about what would have happen. Keep up the good work 👍
Great video
AMAZING VID
Congrats on the first sponsor
Another great video
Wait you said that the US was not militarily decisive on the western front on 0:46 but then at 1:00 you said that the Americans entering the war gave the Entente the ability to just wait out the German offensive. Isn't that militarily decisive? I mean it shows you how crucial American involvement was.
Indeed, the US essentially was tactically not decisive in the slightest (yet), but strategically it was.
@@MDP1702it was neither.
@@kordellswoffer1520 US intervention forced Germany to use up their freed up troops from the east in a last desperate offensive because time only was to their disadvantage with a constantly growing US troops presence in Europe. Not to mention that it was a big morale boost for the other allied soldiers and it took the pressure of them at a time they almost were at breaking point.
@@MDP1702 no it didn’t. Germany was gonna do a major spring offensive with or without America. It was because Germany knew it was running out of time and wanted to blitz’s the entente out of the war. The Americans were largely irrelevant.
Hello everyone, love the video
damn this channel is too underated
Great video and analysis!!! One thing that I think you overlooked thought is another consequence of a scenario where the U.S strong arms both Britain and Germany into allowing its trade to flow freely. At the beginning of the war, in response to the British blockade, Germany strong armed Denmark into mining the Danish straits even though by treaty it was an international waterway. In a scenario where the U.S was truly neutral, it would require pressure from the U.S on Germany to backpedal on this strait mining issue and allow unfettered U.S trade into the Baltic. In this case, the western Entente powers, through U.S middlemen, would better be able to send supplies to Russia via the Baltic and St. Petersburg. This would go a long way to alleviating Russia’s logistical issues during the war, possibly keep it in the war longer, and perhaps butterfly the revolution. In short, I think a truly neutral U.S would require an unlocking of the Baltic to trade which would help the help the logistics and supplies of the allied war effort.
Its unlikely that trade would have helped the russian empire that much, when its problems were already logistical in nature. WW1 wasnt the time you could just ship loads and loads of trucks to help with logistics.
Thank you
My alt take: 1914, war starts, US retains neutrality and ships cargo to all nations. As hostilities escalate it slowly starts to prefer allies but not by much, it also focuses on agricultural and similar trade while trying to not ship weapons or outright military goods. Starts a strong buildup. 1917, Germany is much stronger and Russia collapses as standard, but, Turkey is essentially facing the UK alone, Austria Hungary is facing the Italians and Balkans alone, and Germany is facing France, having to maintain its territories in the east, and trying to help its allies if it can, while all the Entente countries support France as a primary while focusing to at least gain more than they lose in their territory. 1918, Germany starts to slowly push into France while Turkey starts to crumble in the face of the UK and her allies, Italy starts to feel the full might of Austria-Hungary thats easy for Germany to support and has a large territorial expansion in the east. For a while A-H dominates in the field but eventually Italy digs into good defensive ground. 1919. France is facing collapse. Ottoman Empire collapses and UK is now able to strongly reinforce the BEF, preventing outright French Collapse. A-H now has to try to pacify its territory in the east, which is getting harder, defend in the Balkans against the UK and Balkan Minors that are now land connected to the Entente, and Italy is at the very least, holding firm. UK starts to do more and more disadvantagous loans and sales of territory for cash but is in no way facing economic collapse. Germany still receives trade from the US and Neutral occasionally fly US flag to trade with Germany, but its not much trade, UK randomly inspects ships and its almost entirely made of domestic and commercial goods and not military stuff. 1920. Everyone is exhausted, Germany continues to slowly advance in France but hasnt taken Paris, there has been at least one major German push towards it that got within 1914ish distance but didn't take the city. Germany is doing economically far worse and has to quell what amounts to civil wars in most of the E-European countries like the Finnish Civil war. While its slowly getting better the population are reacting more than violently to plans like "put a German/Prussian prince as Monarch and rule as Kingdom". Italy's unified population against A-H's many divergent rebelious voices is starting to tell and Italian and Balkan fronts are pushing into A-H, Germany is having to divide between trying to knock out France and supporting its Southren Front. The east is slowly turning from a resource drain to a resource surplus but barely. American sentiment is turning against the war in general which is increasingly viewed as a German War. Populations revolt against war and peace negotiations start. Final peace is essentially allowing competition in the balkans and e-europe for economic rights as well as some african and pacific island colonies for germany as well as no war reparations and nominal blame escalation alliances in general that lead to a small regional war turning into 5 years of planet wide carnage. No country is signalled out but network of interlocking hostile alliances is seen as cause. Germany revolts against militaristic style of expansion and confrontation of the 1910's and returns to methods of 1880's or so in terms of maintaining friendly relations and growing in peace. Alsac and Ruhr are turned into demilitarized and turned over to league of nations. Various small countries pop up and are either absorbed into the winner of the Russian civil war or retain independence. One of the participants of the conflict sees more resentment and someone militant rises to power there 20 years later and everyone rerolls as history always does. Facist Britannia anyone?
Bro jus yappin
Nice vid
My Main, and only Major, contention with this scenario is that i do Not believe Austria-Hungary would survive the war. Even with a German victory, they could Not keep their Empire together, and would, at best, become an Austrian rump state, and at worst, Join Germany.
Love History!!
Please work on your thumbnails. Your work is absolutely incredible, with better quality of thumbnails you could potentially grow much faster.
Honestly in my opinion, neither side would be very stable after a war with America trading with both sides extensively, favoring neither, possibly resulting in a chaotic unstable europe after the war. somewhat resembling the Hoi4 mod, Red Flood. Japan would’ve also taken advantage of the situation the great powers of Europe were in, and seize their colonies, with the exceptions of New Zealand, Australia, and Polynesia, possibly even allowing East Timor and Southern New Guinea to stay in European hands at least. (This is just speculation don’t criticize me)
A point that was not covered in this but could make way for a future video is Japan. Japan declared war on Germany and took East Asian colonies. I see 2 outcomes to this: 1. Japan seizes American colonies but pays war reparations This could sour relations between the 2 powers and keep Japan closely tied to the British as both mistrust of a German colonial empire and fear of new American power heightens. This is turn may actually empower more liberal forces in the Japanese government as to keep on good terms with the British. No doubt Germany would take interest in the Dutch East Indies, but likely as a source of investment and Alliance with the Dutch as the 2 nations had dynastic relations. Germany would also want concessions in China and perhaps side with one or more of the Chinese Warlords, this also messes with the Japanese and their ambitions. There is a good chance Germany loses to the Japanese in Asia. 2. Japan returns the colonies in return for good relations with Germany This would imply a more imperialistic approach from from Japan and more in line with their extreme nationalism they developed. Preying on the weakened French and British Colonies. Attacking the British in the 20's is a risky ploy as without the Naval Treaties of the 20's and 30's an arms race with the British over ships is very difficult for Japan and by the end of the Great War Britain was making some very large battleships that were scrapped or converted into aircraft carriers in our timeline. Also has the effect of Australia and New Zealand either reinforcing their ties with the British in fear of Japan or seeking ties with the Americans, which is unlikely due to the great depression and American isolation.
Can we please revisit and continue this scenario?
Your map at the end of the video looks a bit like the one from Hoi4 Kaiserreich
0:30 Is that "La Victoire est à Nous" playing in the background?
What if America had joined the central powers ? What if Franz Ferdinand had live ?
Nice video
Good video.
5:55 Just a correction, international trade doesn’t work like an auction. It also doesn’t involve governments (unless it has to do with the WTO or tarrifs), it involves manufacturers and suppliers. However, during total, all-encompassing wars such as the First World War, manufacturers are often contracted by their respective governments in order to manufacture a specific amount of a certain good (e.g. Chrysler was contracted by the US government during the Second World War). Additionally, it wouldn’t necessarily automatically benefit the United States, because now manufacturers and suppliers alike would be hard pressed to keep up with demand from both blocs, instead of just one, and of course high demand with low supply inevitably leads to higher inflation. Regardless, really enjoyed the video and keep up the good work. 👍🏽
This is basically a Kaiserreich lore video, without the branding or details.
Yo, when Central Power victory scenario coming!?😄
Cool video
I would love to see a part 2 see what following the war but hay that won’t happen
10:20 “what happened here?” The marshall plan (i think) since it didn’t help Europe recover economically from ww2, a return to free markets did.
Thanks.
Where is the sequels to this video?
Good video but I think that in this scenario peace would be negociated as a compromise rather than a full-blown German victory, so it is unlikely that France for instance would accept to lose even further land. At most Germany would be able to temporarily occupy the eastern industrial regions to ensure the payment of war reparations, but there is no way they could fully annex them. In fact most probably the negociations would be led and arbitrated by the United States which would propose for Western Europe a very mild agreement quite close to a status quo ante bellum.
Honestly, I'm convinced that wanting to get paid back for the loans is the *real* reason the US intervened. Passenger ships, especially the Lusitania, were often pulling double duty as cargo ships carrying military supplies, like ammunition, which makes them a valid military target, regardless of their civilian passengers. Then there's the Zimmermann Telegram, which seems weird when you think about it. Formal diplomatic communications were intercepted, which was a violation of the rules involving diplomatic communications, but no one questioned the legitimacy of the actions or even vaguely considered the fact that the clause about "if the United States joins the war against Germany" makes it a proposal for a *defensive pact* and not a call for an unprovoked attack against the US. I suspect that if the people who made the loans just realized the true state of the German forces at the time, the US would have sat the fighting part out.
You have the US strong-arming Germany (and I assume Turkey) into allowing free trade with Britain. But wouldn't they also want to trade with all the combatants? Including France, Austria-Hungary and Russia? Russia getting trade from America might be huge. Quite apart from military impacts, it would mean that Russian export industries could sell into the American market. Which means less unemployment in those industries, and that's a big driver of the revolution taken away.
video idea: what if Romania rejected the USSR ultimatum for Bassarabia in 1940 and chose to fight
What is this map?
Let's say the following: The Americans are so upset about the Easter Uprising, that they demand Britain to give independence to Ireland. Britain refuses. This is used by the German Chancellor to shift the American opinion completely against Britain. At the beginning of 1917 the Americans start to cut Britains supplies and by July 1917 they are fully neutral: No troops, money or weapons. This changes a lot. The October Revolution still happens. But then everything changes: No Vardar-Offensive, so Bulgaria would stay in the war and the Second Battle at the Piave River would go worse for Italy. Without any supply - because all supply went to France, to stop Germany capturing Paris - Italy would most likely give up, meaning that France is in a Two Front-War now. France would either give up or redirect troops, in the latter case the CP could even bring Spain into the war. Britain wouldn't have the capabilities to support Portugal now and Spain could even conquer Gibraltar. So the Entente would give up. Peace-Treaties: Treaty of Bresk-Litowsk and Treaty of Budapest confirmed, than Treaty of Potsdam, the treaty with France: 10 billion D-Mark and the rest of the September-Program, Treaty of Rome, with Italy of course: giving Libya as puppet to the Ottomans, maybe paying reparations to the Austrians, Treaty of Sofia, with the Balcans: Split of Serbia, giving parts of Thrace to Bulgaria and Greek islands to the Ottomans, Japan has only to pay for taking the colonies, Britain maybe, but even that could be rejected without problems for Britain. Interwar-Period: America would boom less, but nevertheless. In Austria Charles I. would implement the United States of Greater Austria. In OTL, the Entente promised a lot of countries independence, so that doesn't work, but what's the worth of such a promise, if you are on the loosing side? Germany would put down the Spartacus-riots and does other things to stabilize Middle Europa and the Ottomans would save their country with the help of Atatürk. France and Britain would fall to fascism, Russia stays commie. WW2: Basically the loosers teaming up against the winners. France would fall and than Russia. It's even likely, that Japan would join the CP, because Mongolia was a Russian puppet and the Japanese wouldn't have much oil-problems, as they can get it from the Ottomans. So France and the USSR would fall, in this case the Ottomans with their reformed army can conquer the Suez and Middle Africa some British colonies. The more stable USGA would conquer Italy in no time. Peace-Treaties: No big changes here. Germany would have conquered France in no time, thanks to Belgium being a puppet. So France would likely have to change government and join Middle Europa. Finnland gains Karelia and the Kola-Island, Ireland gains complete independence and Russia maybe also joins Middle Europa. Japan would get it's Greater-East-Asian-Co-Prosperity-Sphere. Aftermath: There would be a Cold War between Middle Europa and a form of NATO. No Al-Quaida or ISIS, as this movements would be crushed by the Ottomans, before they can even rise, no Yugoslavian War, as no Yugoslavian war. No Gulf Wars, as Iraq wouldn't exist. There might be some Proxy-Wars, but this doesn't change one thing: This world would be a better world than ours.
The US joining in 1914 would probably change the course of the war very little over the first two years or so. In 1914, the US had yet to start operating in divisions, and their army was only a little bigger than Bulgaria's. Now, Bulgaria was one of the more successful armies in WW1, all things considered, but you have to consider that, at that point, the Bulgarian army had already fought in both Balkan Wars, and was thus one of the more experienced armies in the world. Had the US joined in 1914, what few troops they could have afforded to send would have been slaughtered the moment they encountered German troops.
7:42 This map is very deceiving though. Like half of the “entente” countries shown here contributed little to nothing throughout the war. And of the remaining countries that actually did contribute significantly, another like half of their empires, for all intents and purposes, was just empty space. The central powers may have had less land overall, but most of that land was densely populated and industrialized. Conveniently, this map doesn’t show the ottomans having theoretical claims to the interior of Arabia while showing the Sahara to be under French control. In reality, both regions are negligible and yet this map still favors the entente in that respect. The same argument can be made for Siberia, and to some extent, even Canada and Australia. Also, this may be perhaps veering a bit off topic but is semi-related to my point, there’s more factions that associated themselves with the central powers than are shown here, particularly in Africa. The Senussi order in Libya is probably the biggest example of this.
What happens to the Dervish?
I feel like Libya goes to the Ottomans since they only lost it to Italy less than 10 years prior. Also another concern would be the German pacific colonies that Japan occupied. I feel like Imperial Japan wouldn’t be willing to give those back even if the entente surrendered just because of their honor based marshal culture not being able to surrender when they were still in fighting shape, this likely becomes a diplomatic crisis because I doubt Germany feels like fighting a war in the far east right after this
I couldn't have been the only one betting they would've made big bank loaning not one but *two* powers.
can you add subtitle ?
You've missed one key point - the Allies may win on others fronts. For example, they could defeat the Ottomans and the Bulgarians like in our own timeline (these nation wouldn't become much stronger because of the US neutrality). And Austro-Hungary could be carved by its nationality because of the war exhaustion. In this case (quite similar with our timeline) Germany will left alone against the Allies with only inefficient Eastern puppets (that gived nothing but required a huge amount of resources).
One major thing that was forgotten about is the Zinnermin Telagram would that simply not happen in this universe?
What might be further discussed is why exactly the USA wanted to take part. What we have following this participation, is 'Wilsonian interventionism', which is to say, American involvement in Europe, which has continued ever since. President Woodrow Wilson's' 14 points' for his League of Nations is an example of the intellectual abstractions that Washington-Pentagon think tanks have tried to impose on the world. Other examples include the 'Neo-Cons' notion that they could rebuild or restructure Iraq and the Middle East following that intervention. It did no good whatsoever for the region as a whole.
Here are 2 eastereggs I found first Voralberg is owned Boy switzerland. Second the Russian Empire countinous in north Sakhalin. P.s. I love your videos
For the next do: What if USA was fully neutral in ww2 or What if Japan didn't bomb Pearl Harbor, could be interesting.
I do think that this video has some errors, mostly with France and Italy. The french mutiny in 1917 would have become a severe problem without the morale boost of the americans joining. I would even argue that France would have fallen in early 1918. Even if France would have held somehow, a similiar situation would occure for the italians. The 12th battle of the isonzo showed that even in our timeline the central powers were able to take large amounts of lands. Given that the french this time couldnt help out, I would argue that much of northern italy would have been under the control of Austria Hungary and the italian government would have had no other choice but to capitulate
That is untrue. The moral boast of America was mild at best and the mutiny was largely over before America even got involved or in any major capacity. The French wouldn’t have collapsed nor was the mutiny that serious. The video is deeply flawed especially around the blockade part.
@@kordellswoffer1520No, it is very true. Ww1 was the age of new war, Chemical warfare, Tanks, Flamethrowers, Trench warfare, etc etc. People don’t understand the degree of this war, they went in thinking they’d just be shooting each other but had to camp out underground and be pummeled by artillery, just to get burned alive, or drown on land from gas without gas masks. Idk about you, but if thousands of fresh troops and plenty of ammunition came to fight with us, that would truly mark the end of the war for me ( which it did ) and be a HUGE reason to celebrate
This alternate universe looks like a more realistic Kaiserreich/Kaiserredux scenario! 😮
Part 2: Austria vs Bulgaria over Balkan Dominance? Great Depression probably still happen
What do you think of the Kaiserreich alternate history scenario in the case of a German WW1 victory?
That's more specifically set up in order to create interesting gameplay as a HOI 4 mod than to actually be a realistic view of what could happen. Cool, but really just a fictional, unrealistic interpretation of what could or would happen.
This scenario is similar enough to KR wdym
sounds a lot better than what really happened
Is anyone else getting a Kaiserie........ EVERY MAN A KING!!
WW1 was a War between Empires. For the Entente we have the British Empire, the French (which also have an Empire), the Belgians (also have an Empire). Meanwhile the Central Powers consist of the Germans (which has an Empire), the Ottoman Empire, & the Austro Hungarian Empire, all of which have Empires too. Typical Behavior of Empires (particularly Colonialism & Imperialism): Conquer other people's land, enslave those they conquered to show off their Power Dominance & taking away Human Rights & Civil Rights in the name of showing off their Power & Dominance. American People Values "by theory": should be AGAINST any form of Imperialism & should practically focus on Human Rights & Civil Rights & Democracy. Therefore, "by theory" America SHOULD NOT be involved in WW1 at all. Because if they got involved in WW1, doesn't matter who side America choose, America's involvement in WW1 would symbolizes that there's a Paradox to the "American Value" & that America seems to favor Racism, favor Greed & Power Dominance, & Against Human Rights & Against Civil Rights & also Against Democracy too, which you can see is a huge paradox to the "American Value" of "Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness". Reality, we already see what happened: America involves in WW1. Their involvement causes WW2, which later causes Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, & now with Ukraine & future potentials with Taiwan. By theory, if America does not involved in WW1, we can speculate no such thing as Nazi Germany & WW2. Also no such thing as Vietnam War or modern day War on Terror in Afghanistan. By theory it's None of America's Business to be involved with other countries' affairs. So America should have stayed neutral. But history already shows the choices the past American Government has made. Additionally, America got involved in Vietnam & later got involved with Afghanistan in the modern day. It comes to show that the American Government does not follow the "American Values" & simply follows more towards all Empires worldwide.
Strong arming Britian for access to Germany would have been unnecessary. All the Americans had to do was trade through Austria Hungary and use their Mediterranean ports to get goods to Germany. Austria Hungary would undoubtedly accept as it would only help their war efforts thus bypassing the British blockade.
A lot of people don't realize how much America was in world war 1
My only problem with your scenario is that the UK did not want to continue fighting this war until the United States joined it so most likely, the UK would’ve came up with a piece agreement as soon as the Soviet union give up territory to Germany to the war, because the UK did not have the backing of the United States to continue the war that they were struggling with
There would have been a mod for hoi4 Kaiserreich because the Entente lost there precisely because America did not enter the war
part 2 ?
Could the ottoman empire and Austro-Hungarian empire rise again if the Central powers won
What if the US and Japan were allies in ww2?