I promise this isn't dumb. - Veeo Transparent Display
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Transparent displays -- so hot right now. But what are they actually useful for? Adam went to check out Veeo's new transparent displays at CES that post an interesting use case -- video calls that are much more personal. With a large size, low resolution, and a price tag that's nothing to sneeze at, this may seem like a questionable product, but it does make sense!
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 But why transparent displays?
0:32 The Veeo Holodeck T55
3:28 Issues that can be solved with software
4:15 Sponsor - bequiet!
4:47 Some benefits of webcam eye contact
5:34 Watching video content
6:09 Pricing, release date, and final thoughts
7:00 Outro
My thoughts "that's dumb"... The title... My second thought was "okay I'll give it a watch then" Thoughts after watching "yep, that's dumb"
All it took to lure you to a stranger’s hotel room was the promise of seeing a cool monitor…
They even dimmed the lights...
If the camera is going to be a big, black blotch in the middle of the screen, then why not just black out the entire rear of the display? It’ll definitely help with clarity…
I think the idea is that the camera is where the person’s head would be, meaning it’s obscured by the person you’re talking to.
That's what the enclosed version of the display is. I think the transparent versions are basically just to demonstrate the tech.
@@aspuzlinga tech demo at CES? Crazy
Yeah, you can really tell this company tried to "find a purpose" for this tech without..... ya know, actually thinking it through.
Aster, I thought that was _exactly_ the entire point of this video. My understanding is that what they are demonstrating is a panel that will be used in a closed back scenario when a camera is involved. Transparent panels have been demonstrated before and could have all sorts of salesy type uses, but this video is not demonstrating that. This video is demonstrating technology integration.
The main application for a transparent display would be for sales purposes. A store could feature its product through a glass display enclosure while displaying prices for the product, or specs, or any other relevant information via the display in the glass. Windows could show you the inside of the store while displaying hours of operation. A restaurant could have the menu, whatever. Obviously all of these use cases can be solved by paper but that's rigid. If you want to be able to change things with some regularity, reprinting paper can be costly over time. For home consumer reasons you could have "smart windows" which could show whatever is outside obviously but also have like a weather widget, or AI assistant functionality. Maybe it could go opaque to act as blinds, all sorts of utility to a transparent display in that context.
I agree, this is gonna be huge for stores. Just imagine an apple store with this
also it looks cool
Exactky. Not everything is about consumers. Sometimes tech is just for businesses.
@@segiraldovi Counter argument to what I said about that main application of transparent displays is a few things. First, it's still prohibitively expensive. While paper is inflexible and changing what's on it requires reprinting the paper; ink, paper, whatever time is spent on the design is all cheaper than displays that likely cost tens of thousands of dollars each. Unless it's a business that needs to change their signage constantly it'll be at least a decade before these kinds of displays are more economical than just reprinting signs. There's also the cost of electricity and repair. A normal window and paper sign doesn't continually cost money to keep working. Any kind of large retail brand with multiple brick and morter locations has a specific look they maintain for branding purposes. So a company like Apple wouldn't be able to use these kind of displays in just 1 store. They'd have to use them in hundreds of stores. Which again, is a lot of money. Maybe as a pop up concept type of store just to boost consumer interest/awareness it would be done, but outside that purpose I don't see it happening for some time. I brought up the main utility of what I imagine transparent displays would be used for (not as TVs people watch things on). Doesn't mean I think we'll actually be seeing them in use any time soon
It also creates the opportunity to create a faux holographic image around an object as seen through a window, or as a layer over a mirror.
I still don't understand why the entire display needs to be transparent. Phones have been using underscreen cameras for years at this point without the need for the entire phone screen to be transparent.
On the phones the under screen cameras take up like 1% of the whole screen. The cameras used here seem to take up close to 10% so if you're going through the trouble of making that much of the screen transparent might as well make the whole thing transparent.
It has something to do with eye contact. If you put the camera at the top and not at the center, then you'd rather have a traditional screen
@@360tomahawk_obese_gorilla87 added to that, they are working towards the "EYE CONTACT" thing, which means camera cannot be at a corner or an edge, it needs to be near the centre of the screen. Currently under display cameras work by COMPLETELY TURNING OFF the display above them when they are operating. This cannot be done if the camera is near the centre of the screen else there will be a black spot in between of your video conference.
How about you watch the video? He specially addresses the use case of this technology
i think its gonna useful with smart glasses like meta have today, VR headsets gonna become smart glasses, that’s the future I believe it
While the technology itself is interesting, I have some doubts about the displayed use case. I do video calls quite often and to me, personally, having someone not "look at me directly" because of camera placement is not as much an issue as video call latency in general (having people talk over each other or startling conversations due to this is way more annoying than people not looking directly at you). Also keep in mind that if you own a setup like that, you're only making the experience better for everyone else. So if not looking directly at you bothers you, you'd need to convice all the other people you're talking to to buy that setup rather than yourself.
It will replace promters
The eye contact use case is easily solved with AI tools that are already released. There's a even a company doing this that has almost the same name, VEED.
2:45 yeah because the entire display is a sacrifice in picture quality 😆
exactly what i thought lmao
THANK YOU!!!!
Ive never been happier workin remotely, i hate this stupid narrative of "missing personal connection" id rather have my boss behind a screen any day.
I think it depends on each person, some people go insane if they dont go out of their house for long periods of time, or dont like having their work area and relax area to be the same place
these fools trying to scam people for a problem nobody cares enough to solve
@@erickr199 you're part of the problem.
@@erickr199 there are some things called gyms, parks and other public spaces where you go out instead of wasting 2 hours daily commuting. as for the dedicated work area just make one at your house where you only works and that's it wallah.
@@colliebutt7104 Why? It does depend on each person. Some people hate staying at home every day. Some people don't have extra dedicated space to separate the "work area" from the "time off" area. I'd love to be able to work from home.. At least *some* of the time. But I can't be cooped up in my house for days on end.
Thanks for the visit. It was great having you around!
This is gonna be vaporware. I think maybe eyetracking and/or AI will solve the issue with you not looking into the eyes of someone. Or maybe just inscreen cameras
Literally is a nvidia RTX program that does that already, and its free lmao
Yup, given that both Apple and Nvidia already has eye contact built out, the monitor for the only purpose of eye contact is ridiculous. But given that this is for businesses they'll be able to sell a decent amount.
logitech already has options to fix this for years with their rally systems and the like for bussiness
@@PrimyFritzellz yeah, but the AI enhanced pupil placement is farrrrr from natural lol
@@gingaming_gg I'd rather use an uncanny AI pupil replacement thing than use a transparent monitor with a black box in the center. Give about 2 years and we'll not even know if the image was "AI Enhanced" or not
2:39: "The difference is, those had to sacrifice pixel density in a small area. Unlike those phones THERE IS NO SACRIFE TO IMAGE QUALITY [...] ON THIS MONITOR" erm.... no. Try: "Unlike those phones there is a MASSIVE sacrifice to image quality over the ENTIRE area."
Yeah, that was just a complete lie from them.. the whole monitor is a sacrifice for terrible quality
They could have also used a smaller camera like a phone and only use the transparent screen in that tiny spot
for a good camera I would think they'd use more than a tiny spot but 5-10% of the screen is a hell of a lot more reasonable than 100%
THANK YOU these screens look TERRIBLE, they are low res and are SUPER expensive, to solve a problem most don't care about and phones have already solved for cheaper and with superior results, Fully Transparent Displays still a solution looking for a problem
@@__Brandon__this is exactly what I said. Why use a massive camera with a fully transparent screen, when you could treat it like a phone and put a small camera in the middle behind a small section of transparent screen.
This will have a shorter lifespan than 3D. Also, I still have my 3D Panasonic Plasma in the spare bedroom. RIP.
Somewhere I still have the 3D screen HTC phone. It was useless.
Still have my 3D TV from 2014, hope it lasts because I don't think 3D TVs are coming back.
I can see some purposes for this (smart glasses, shop windows maybe, or even car HUDs if not too distracting or hard to see). Where it doesn't need to be are fridge doors. You have shelves and pricing there to show all you need to show.
8500? I really don't need a second mortgage right now
The box is large enough to live in. Technically, you'd be saving money.
The host specifically said this is targeted at business not at consumers. Chill
These things were shown off and promised a decade ago or longer once OLED became more prevalent. Some companies did make transparent panels for info centers but didn't take off.
I don't think this video is about transparent panels yo.
@@SixOThreeAre you watching the same video?
@@ernieoporto1111 yup and they’re not demonstrating something that already exists - transparent oled. They’re demonstrating the integration of technologies, specifically cameras and transparent oled, in a way that improves outcomes.
@@SixOThree and that's the fault of the video and the demo folks. They just need to ditch the term entirely, and use something even dumber that actually makes sense, like "smart monitor", or "AI display".
@@deano1699 I could be stupid too. But both are possible as well.
An AI filter that changes where your eyes are looking is probably a much cheaper simpler solution, that'll work on modern hardware with no image compromise.
If I'm taking a course and someone has an AI filter on that's making them always stare right at me... I'm gonna be creeped out.
@@enemyv This could be partially solved if the tech developed so that it'd only manipulate ur gaze toward the camera if you are both looking at ur computer screen and speaking
@@enemyv It would need to be smart enough to only make them look straight out when they look in the middle of the screen. Perhaps with calibration.
Imagine a transparent phone with a selfie camera under the display. It'll be so cool to see the camera.
The best idea i can think of for transparent displays, for "regular" consumers, would be replacing regular old windows. Outside of some gimmicky things like putting some extra info on them, you could just use them as TVs, monitors, etc. One layer of electrochromic glass that can act as blinds and improves the contrast of the TV, then the actual transparent display on top. Obviously there's some issues here around aspect ratios, actual windows sizes, windows actually being able to open, etc. but i don't think it needs to be perfect to see some adoption once it gets cheaper. The next big thing would be car windshields. If they are a transparent display it opens up a lot of possibilities for overlays. I can see it being a big selling point in the future with things like navigation overlayed on top of the road, highlighted pedestrians or hard to see animals at night in the middle of the road, etc. Other than that, anyone wanna guess when Nothing is going to make a phone with a transparent display so you can see it's internals from the front as well? :D
well think about people in rooms of the bottom of ship decks below the water line..
I could see these transparent displays in stores and for business use. There’s no reason for them outside of that.
Thanks for the alerts at all the spots.
8500 for a novelty item is just too much. 😂 selling points suck too.
a solution to a non-existant problem. making the display transparent for better positioning for a webcam.
Why are these tech grandpa’s so demanding about eye contact when most of us don’t even show their faces when talking to our friends online?
I don’t understand why we need webcams at all. I don’t need to see someone’s face if he talks to me I just need to hear him.
The biggest advantage to see-through displays is not for TVs. It will finally give us the ability to have real AR glasses because you will finally have a display they can show you real time information while being able to see through it on one plane of glass instead of two
The issue with making the glass part of glasses a display is that the light emitted from the screen isn't focused. That isn't insurmountable, but that's why a screen alone won't work.
i just want a cheap accessible side panel modification / attachment that can give my PC some transparent display flair, without needing to purchase an expensive and crappy snowblind case. The more mature and practical transparent displays become, the more accessible such a concept will become for DIY and consumers :)
I've wondered for a while why we don't just use the well-established teleprompter technology for video calls. Seems to solve the problem super easy and cheap.
I don't think this will be profitable
isn't there already a webcam that drops down to the center of the screen?
At this point why not just use a teleprompter. I feel like it would deliver the same "looking at the camera" effect without so many tradeoffs
A teleprompter with a 50 inch screen would be extremely huge.
didnt nvidia release and AI turner thing that adjusts your eyes on the screen so even though your looking at the camera its makes it look like your looking at the screen?
It brings me a good idea about Transparent Digital clocks that almost similar tech to this transparent TV.
Wild idea : put it in a box similar to how old CRT monitors were mounted and have at old monitor geeks ;)
What about augmented reality for car windshields?
I'm reading a lot of comments but no one mentioned THE most obvious application. Heads Up Displays (HUD) could be a major advancement on multiple ways. A hardened window like that in place of a car windshield displaying velocity, alerts of cars on your blind spot at the sides, cameras and on border computers like in a tesla warning you of pedestrians, an improved GPS map highlighting the path instead of looking to a screen in the car and sometimes missing the exit because you didn't look closely. A similar concept for motorcycle helmets might also be possible. The cabinet on a crane in a construction site assisting the operator be receiving location data from the crew down below with the payload they are working on. Smarthomes where in multiple window panes you may interface with systems from the house.
How long before this is pc case side glass?
Will this work for AR VR glasses
One of the possible use of transparent display can be MR headset. The user can have an actual see through experience.
Agreed, although it will likely take years to get this tech that small. It would still probably be best to have a real-time live feed of your surroundings to solve the low pixel density issues, as without this it would be the return of heavy screen door effect
imagine even turning on your webcam for calls at work xD
Ik this may be a dumb question but wouldn't it be better to like make a 1 way mirror type thing like where its transparent on one side to make the camera still work but the screen be clear... i could be wrong but idk the technology and i was just thinking...
Doesn't display can just reduce framerate to half and synchronize webcam to every s3cond frame? So, on 60Hz display 30Hz will be for enlightening pixels and other 30Hz will give webcam under display possibility to capture video wuthout capturing pixels' light.
seems like they're trying to invent a problem to fix.
Well, stack them in series and you can get volumetric display. Holograms next level xD
As an instructional designer and adjunct faculty, this is very interesting. There is a huge demand for Hybrid-Flexible education. The lack of personalization is definitely a barrier, but at this price range there are better ways to spend money to make HyFlex education better. Course design, LMS tools, recorded lecture quality, etc. are more pressing issues than a transparent screen. Even at the lower price point you could get 2 high quality DTENs instead. As long as the user looks at the camera instead of the monitor, you've basically solved this issue for free.
Ok but can't you use 2 cammeras to get a 3d picture and to adjust the possition people look at in software???
I just got a phone with an under screen camera and it looks about as good as the one in the 2nd display although it may be using some kind of processing to clean up the image.
who actually cares about eye contact while doing video calls? anyone with any brains is multi tasking in these situations; taking notes, working on spreadsheets, looking through data to referance. The people who care about these things are people who struggle to even get a video chat working. The real use for these types of screens should be windows, interactive glass, HUDs, AR, decrative uses and possibly full wall TVs that the size can be adjusted depending on use case.
I work remotely and in my experience, that multitasking is one of the biggest issues with remote work. People are empowered to work away during a meeting rather than be fully present. Sometimes that is more productive because if you were pulled into a meeting you didn't really need to be in you can at least get some other work done, but just as often you end up with the people you really wanted feedback from not giving it their full attention. When designing complex systems, there's really nothing like three or four fully engaged engineers working around a whiteboard. It's the thing I miss the most.
I still think Holograms are the best use for these, the Window Idea is cool but, I worry abut what the being exposed to the hot sun all day long would do to these screens, especially with how exspensive they are
This technology would be interesting for car windows and displaying AR info
I just imagined my car bluescreening and me going off a cliff....
This seems like an expensive way to do a worse solution than using mirrors like in teleprompters... other than the low space usage, it seems like it's sacrificing a lot of quality, and adding a lot of other issues. Am I wrong? Is there some other benefit?
You that be perfect for like Q and A streaming with webcam. You can read the questions well the viewers feel like your actually looking at them
I'm don't know anything about the engineering and its specifics but... Would it be easier if they just made a photo sensor that goes in between the oled diodes? Like what if they forgo the heavy post process for a more hardware approach of just getting a camera sensor that just does its job A TV is so huge that I dont think they need to worry about pixel density at that level and instead focus on the photo sensor and how they can prevent the light from the adjacent oled diodes from bleeding out to the sensors.
Can you ask the Veeo to remove the bezel to make a seamless display, at least on the left-right side?
Nothing I can ever see myself ever having a need for, but still pretty cool tech.
Yknow, some of these screens and a custom UI for windows/Linux would be sick for regular use, straight up the transparent computers of the future in shows we watched as kids/teens.
I've worked from home since 2016. I went from a low-level consultant, to technical architect, to manager, to senior manager. At no point did I ever share my webcam. It's disabled in the UEFI of my work laptop. I've worked with. probably, 200+ people who have no idea what I look like. The idea that you *have* to have a video feed for effective communication is patently absurd.
Yeah, no ... we are definitely going to adopt the idea of a mediocre expensive screen that we buy just for video conference... Don't get me wrong, I applaud the engineering feat, it is truly amazing ! And is a sense, I do recognize the cool factor in a sci-fi, "the future of the movies is now" kind of way... But, at least for now, and even after this video... This still feels like they are struggling to find the problem that this technology is supposed to fix. But hey, I might be wrong...
Best version of this imo is a teleprompter, it works super well for video calls. It's also less than 1/10th of the cost lol. Smaller though
"I promise this isn't dumb" Sure but I immediately think of that TV that LMG couldn't get rid of. Like nobody wanted to "Steal" it for free
I can see this technology used in clothing stores to "virtually" try on clothes. The camera behind the screen would track and move to adjust to the viewer's height, then overlay the clothes over them on the display, creating a "virtual mirror". If they like what they see, then they go and try on the outfit. If not, it saves them time having to try it on and the employee's time refolding the clothes afterwards.
That defeats the most important purpose of trying things on. Most people don't return things because they don't like the design. They do so cuz they don't fit / they don't like the materials. also there is no reason for a transparent display for this.
@@Stay_away_from_my_swamp_water the display only needs to be transparent where the camera is (adjustable to onlooker's eye level). As for trying things on, yes, in the end the shopper will still have to try it on if they think it looks good in the mirror, but it will at least help with those things that they thought would look good but doesn't match their skin tone/body type/etc.
Transparent displays are like flying cars, looks great, great to see in movies and games, but impractical to use. But technology that use a bit of them can be bought to life. For example, Instead of flying cars, we can have Levitating Cars, and transparent Display tech can be used to perfect UNDER DISPLAY SENSORS.
Dim light necessity was why Linus gave his away.
My chair is opening the wardrobe! HELP!
I am waiting on small oled transparent displays in AR glasses.
"No sacrifice to picture quality"😂 Except the wholedisplay is see trough. Just use those under screen phone cameras.
Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
You mentioned gaming on it, and like... for streamers, that would actually be pretty awesome!
Video thumbnail had me thinking this was a Captain D video.
Imagine painting a piece of ply wood or something behind it that was painted with one of those ultra black paints like black 2.0 or something. The contrast ratio would be wild.
As someone on the spectrum I never once was upset about the lack of Eye contact in Conference calls. I actually prefer it.
It seems almost all of this could just be done with a teleprompter set up, can get full 4K on any sized screen for a fraction of the price
It not easy but there will be pros and cons. Camera is important as feel off when they do not look at you since camera position do mind think about it.
But your hands look so cool in the stroby light!
It is diffraction, light is a wave at times and an interference pattern occurs everytime it passes an object. QDs are objects too. Hence the striping.
I can imagine this tech being used to make windows that can display things like news and weather. A "smart" window per se.
Can't wait to use it for computer case. Only option right now is to buy iBuyPower Snowblind case or DYI.
not sold on the conference video feature but transparent displays could be awesome for reading. bet it doesn't strain the eyes so much
A company making transparent display to put camera behind the screen Me *big brain time*: I bought a small tripod and set my webcam in front of my monitor, and put my Teams window behind the camera (right half of my monitor). This way I can see the image of the person I'm talking with, and seem like I'm looking at the camera the whole time. Costed me $5 and 10 mins to set-up.
I'm just waiting for this to make its way into headsets for some better ar/vr applications
Basic product designs questions. Can we do it. Do we know how to do it. How hard will it be to make. Can we make money selling it. A lot of companies skip the should we make it
Dude looks so tired, feel like this shoot was super early in the morning poor guy.
Lmg uploads are going great good job team ❤
what happens when you point two of these tvs at each other with the cameras on?
If they get the prices down enough I could see something like this in most shops replacing their normal windows displaying some wares and still allowing people to look into the shop
@@thaNorthStar if thats how you think than there should be nothing but barren walls ... if people are stupid and destroy stuff they should pay for it so at least if those idiots would be found they will have hurt themselves even more
I believe LG had also demonstrated transparent display at CES, right? what if I put a camera behind that?
I think that GIFs, websites optimizes to run on transparent displays, and in the future - videogames utilizing the alpha channel to create "spots" where you can, for example, walk around and try to not fall down and kill the character, can be a good use for transparent displays. Clever use of the alpha channel can do a lot. I hope this won't be just a fad like no-glasses 3D was.
AR is already a thing, it works and has numerous implementations. This? WHY? If you´d use a stationary display, you alway have use the same Background, most likely your wall. It doesn´t make sense, just use black or white or whatever to fill the void. This isn´t thought through in the slightest and it is a useless fad.
But why can‘t there just be a black foil on the back of the screen around the camera - that way the contrast ratio would be way better?
Like the new transparent lg oled, I think its purpose is to blend in with the environment not just as a tv but also as a piece of art, like displaying a fish tank for example, which gives new options for decor. This is also an interesting use case.
this look like something i talk to a judge on while im in jail
this is an example of a solution looking for a problem.
I think digitally altering your gaze in software to make eye contact is probably the more practical solution
This is an interesting use case for sure and if it gets improved maybe it'll be worth it but let's be honest, you could use a teleprompter type setup for exactly the same benefit right now. If you do a lot of video calls and want that extra level of 'connection', you could just get a 13" teleprompter mirror, a portable 13" display to go with it and a decent webcam and use it as a second screen for video calls. If you want something bigger, you can just make your own with an LCD with your size of choice and a 2-way mirror.
why go transparent? at those sizes, go normal panels, have 2 holes in the middle and go stereo with sensors at the bottom
How do they show black on such display? There is no black light - in ordinary monitor black is just a color of a pixel while it is not lit. But this monitor have 2 states of "Not lit": black and transparent. How? I mean, I can have different hypothesis, but I'm curious, how it actually works in this one.
First use I thought is Twitch streamers keeping direct eye contact for 6+ hours straight
Only the enclosed version is somewhat useful. Transparency adds nothing interesting but takes a lot of usability and quality back from normal displays. So having a camera behind the screen at the center of it is cool but only the camera zone should be transparent, without the user ever really noticing it. Keep the obviously transparent displays for museum or stuff like that.
I don't get it. The only utility sounds like having the camera centered behind the display. This is somehow better than underdisplay camera because an underdisplay camera sacrifices picture quality in a small region where the lense is, whereas this sacrifices picture quality across the entire display surface. That makes no sense when comparing the two options. What did I misunderstand in this video?
What happened to teleprompters with color screens? Are they that unbearably large for a video calls?
My biggest concern is that these transparent panels are going to become like 3D TVs fad of the 2010's where all the high end stuff had that gimmick, though at least that gimmick didn't really impact normal TV use, transparent TV's are going to take amazing OLED panels with their inky blacks and make them envious of even TN panel's contrast ratios.
I'd say the FaceTime approach, which just edits your eyes a bit to look like you're looking at the camera, and is doing that since years, without anybody noticing, is a far better approach than this.
You see a video conferencing made a tiny bit easier...I see companies recording people faces and reactions to ads in stores and shopping malls ;]
Yet to be convinced this makes any sense, my office uses an array camera system from cusco with 3 cameras that point at different parts of a room and can detect and focus on who is talking in the room, i feel looking a few i ches off the camera center in a big confrence room just wont be worth the money. Also... i have not seen a single oled in my office the perception of burn in is not something they want to think about
I've been looking at possibily doing paid DMing for D&D and I genually think that something like this might help the players feel like I, the DM is more engaged with them