Why is my electrician suggesting we have a surge protection device fitted?
Modern homes are packed full of electronic devices. Many of them are permanently connected to the mains electricity supply. In this video, we explore why an electrician may suggest fitting a surge protection device (SPD).
A Surge protector can help to reduce damage to electronic devices caused by an electrical transient, usually from a nearby lightning strike to the electrical system.
Everything from TV's and games consoles to washing machines and LED lighting include electronics to make them work.
== 🕐 Time Stamps - Cut to the action 🕕 ==
00:00 Why have my electrical appliances failed?
00:45 What equipment is susceptible to electrical surges?
01:47 Where do electrical surges come from?
03:11 Is my home at risk from electrical surges?
04:16 How can I protect my home from electrical transients?
04:48 How do surge protection devices work?
05:28 Is it worth fitting a surge protection device?
06:25 Talk to local your electrician for more advice.
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Surge protection devices from Electrium
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❌ This content on this channel is for electrical professionals.❌ ==================================
📹 Presented by
Gary Hayers - Editor eFIXX
Joe Robinson - Technical Editor eFIXX
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#efixx #electricalinstallation #surgeprotection
Why does Gary have a fake moustache on?! 🤣
Raising awareness for mental health issues, prostate cancer in men - as well as children with a limb difference... happy for you to support my daughters fund raising for a hero arm if you need details call me 🦾. Gaz
@@efixx omg Gary, I heard Vienna on Radio One a while back, what a wonderful brave soul she is, you must be immensely proud of her. I didn’t realise she was your daughter! Please send details of her crowdfunding.
Thanks for the support and wonderful comment. Gaz 👍💕🦾
gofund.me/3610753a
He turned up for his side-job. He was there 'to clean the pool'.
When installing a consumer unit I don’t offer surge protection as an option, I fit it as standard. For the price of an spd it is not worth omitting them. I always supply the customer with info about spd’s and what they do when quoting for a job and explain I fit them as standard but give them the option to opt out of having one fitted, saving them x amount on the quote. I’ve not had a refusal yet.
Great procedure #TopTip - opt out
Exactly the same here, I’ve had one person opt out and so just noted on the cert to cover ourselves.
Same here, never even had a conversation about it, it's just listed on the quote. For the sake of £40 it makes sense to be standard.
And that’s why professionals should give the customer firm recommendations and potential options.😀👍
Which protection do you offer as standard (1, 2, 3)?
SPD's on the Consumer side versus the DNO side is an interesting subject when it is so easy for the Supply Company to fit an REC2S isolator with an additional SPD module at the intake to the Customer's Consumer unit. Great and very deserving cause too Gaz you deserve total support on it too
This happened in a nearby village ,they managed to send 415 v to some properties, all damaged paid for electric company.
Good to know, thanks. 😊
Very interesting keep up the good work Lads.
We had a surge from a street transformer blow. Surprisingly very few items in the house blew. The timer clock on the oven blew, a blue ray player, a sub woofer, a portable radio system, the internet broadband box and the transformer on the phone. But the big items like TV, dishwasher, fridge, air conditioner were not effected. But I will certainly now fit protection to the sensitive items.
Thanks Gentlemen, your information is so useful
Thanks 👍🏻
A great video to show to my customers & students, efixx does it again, thanks guys
I have found the easiest way to sell the end user on Serge breaker (SPD UK loves an abbreviation) is to ask real questions. “Do your LED bulbs not last the 23 years advertised on the package?” “Do your compact florescence not last the seven years advertised on the package?” “How many LED or compact fluorescent lightbulbs have you pulled out that are actually burned out?” You then get to explain to them that the weakest link in the chain that is their lamps is the LED driver or the compact florescence ballast. It is also helpful if they like 2700 lamps to look around the house for the one that’s gone rose. Then you have the fun of explaining to them that micro surges caused by the compressor on their forced air system and the refrigerator are most likely responsible for the reduced life expectancy of their LEDs and compact florescence, and that you cannot protect from the damage that has already been done, but you can protect against future damage. You can also explain to them that their TV having micro block pixelation in it is most likely not a reception issue but a micro surge and/or dirty power issue. A surge breaker (SPD) is not a substitution for protection at the point. As an electrician who specializes in installation of low-voltage I still recommend power conditioners for your AV rack or entertainment center and surge suppression receptacles behind your wall mounted TVs. Belt and braces.😉
Are those serge breakers made in Russia by any chance?
@@paul756uk2 the Schneider/Square D Homeline fitted in my load center is Made in USA. The surge suppression receptacles from Legrand are made in Mexico. Power conditioners that I recommend are based off of what’s on sale from reputable brands like Panamax, Monster and APC, and very on country of origin based off of make model and year of manufacture.
Wow, great comment, thanks. 👍
The screw in LEDs die early because the design overdrives them and undercools them. I had one brand where the driver circuit overheats and shorts (probably cheaped out on the capacitors). IMHO it's cheap design and not really because of surges. That said, they do omit surge protection, so a surge could definitely kill them as well.
Why is it when watching this all I can think about in “ymca - the villiage people” 😄 good video keep up the good work
nice video, Joe best electrical teacher :D
Guys this is a great video to show my customers. Sometimes if they hear it by others in the industry it doesn’t look like a sales gimmick us sparks are trying on .
The exact purpose of the video - More in the series coming soon!
Lads this video is great for directing customers to watch it and explain to them in layman's terms. What I really really really need you to do is make a video on "why is my electrician saying I need my water and gas pipes bonded" because all I hear is why do I need this when everything has worked fine for years! Have you ever tried explaining earth potentials to dear old Dores? 🤯 We need something easy for the elderly to understand as I just get blank stares most of the time with my explanation of BS7671 extraneous conductive parts requirements. Hardly surprising when there's many an electrician doesn't seem to have grasped it. Please help!
Ps. I initially directed them to the boffin John ward AKA J to the W But he left them even more confused 😕 If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Get out of here Einstein!!
I live in a converted barn with a 3 phase supply. The property is a little remote. I have suffered with failed TV’s, alarm power supply x2 and two SONOS power supply failures. Decided to invest in transient surge protector and since install 18 months ago no issues. Hopefully it’s not just luck!!!
Is the property fed by overhead lines direct to the property.
@@efixx No
Will a powerstrip with surge/overcurrent protection work?
I had a surge event last week in my home..now 1 of my TV's won't turn on from the remote and I have to turn off at the wall and then it will work again ( a right pain as it's a wall mounted TV) Xbox also was affected and I have to do a difficult hard reset and set it all up again..luckily works now.....thinking of getting a sparky to fit a SPD to my consumer unit...Great video...was going to buy a load of masterplug surge 3 way adapters for behind wall mount TV's and surge trailing extension sockets......roughly what sort of costing ( ballpark)
I don't think you have mentioned the three types of SPD in this video. I think that the type of protection from lightening strikes that you described is provided by a type 1 SPD. I have seen a type 1+2+3 SPD and wonder if it is worth paying the extra cost for T2 & T3 protection as well as T1? is there any advice you can offer about which type(s) of SPD to get for a domestic property in a rural location with overhead incoming supply and TT earth?
Thank you very much
Question why do regular breakers cant protect our devices? Hope you will enlighten us. Thank you
In our 2020 NEC requirements in the US, SPDs are now required for all new installs: 230.67 Surge Protection. (A) Surge-Protective Device. All services supplying dwelling units shall be provided with a surge-protective device (SPD). (B) Location. The SPD shall be an integral part of the service equipment or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto. Exception: The SPD shall not be required to be located in the service equipment as required in (B) if located at each next level distribution equipment downstream toward the load. (C) Type. The SPD shall be a Type 1 or Type 2 SPD. (D) Replacement. Where service equipment is replaced, all of the requirements of this section shall apply.
Thanks for the information- do your SPD devices take the same DIN format that we see in Europe?
@@efixx No, ours are either boxes built into the load center or they are add on boxes that attach externally to the load center panel. I personally have Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA units that are mounted below each of my 200A service entrance panels. I could have gotten by with one, but ended up putting one on each of the two panels, they are cheap enough. They are then fed into the panel's bus bars with 50A 240V breaker. Most newer construction here in Texas the load centers are in the garage and are flush mounted and then the garages are then dry walled as well, so my SPD's are flush mounted in the wall. Most houses here in Texas don't have basements and are either slab on grade or crawlspaces on pier and beam. Its the best to watch your's along with others in the UK to see how different things are. We have 400A service and 80 breakers, and its amazing to see that the typical house there has 8-14 breakers with only 60-100A. Great video keep up the good work. 👍
should i upgrade earthing below 10 ohm if i want to install SPD?
Is a SPD just a 400v 100uf capacitor with a 1meg bleed resistor across it ?? I'm looking at this from an electronic engineers view 👍
if i have install spd..should i upgrade earthing resistance to below 10 ohm?
Very helpful. I do alot of work in apartments/blocks of flat are these at less of a risk to surge voltages?
As ever it depends - if the block has a lightning ⚡️ protection system fitted the risk is higher. We’ve made this CPD so you can understand the risk assessment process - www.efixx.co.uk/Know%20How/BS7671SPD
@@efixx Thanks chaps
Do you think my new build house will have an spd in the consumer unit? Due to be completed next month.
Hi Im doing my electrical engineering examination and come across a dilemma don’t know question A customer need to be installed a electrical car charger on Nissan Leaf which is 30m long from property any my concern is do I have to install 2 pcs surge protection one in inside a house and the other one is in garage? Tns 400v
Where best to place it ? Upstream of the meter, of course !
Worth noting that they're not a requirement for domestic but are now mandatory for commercial and industrial installations.
There seems to be a never ending pissing contest between sparkies in their endeavor to milk householders.
With that moustache, Gaz looks like he could do with a bit of serge to accompany this video... Gainsboroug, that is. Je t'aime.! 😄
Guys you could have cleared the draining bord before you started filming 😂. I live not to far from Watford and the last time there was a lightning strike were I live was about thirty years ago, so in my opinion it be a wast of time and money fitting an spd to any house, also most if not all electrical appliances are made as throw aways 9 times out of 10 if you TV packs up the repair shop will tell you that it's beyond economical repair in order words cheaper to buy a new one. But I have to admit that SPDs are a good idea but only were they are absolutely needed and they should be priced as a standard MCM or RCD, just my own opinion. Great video as always very interesting and informative thanks Gary and Joe for another sterling video.
It’s my house and I don’t always have time to pack away before leaving the house... 😡🤣
@@vievlogs589 I was joking, sorry.
How do you know the last time you had lightning near you was 30 years ago? I can tell you that actually Watford sees 20-22 lightning events per year (based on area of the town and the flash density for the area) so in the last 30 years there is likely to have been closer to 600+ lightning events near to you. You are also assuming that SPD's are there to protect against lightning and a domestic type 2 device (the sort of device BS7671 wants you to install now) is absolutely not there for direct lightning energy. It's there to make the LV distribution system more robust, to protect against the wear & tear from over voltage stress caused by induced energy, switching faults, large inductive loads, in rush current issues. The device is there to protect expensive terminal equipment and make it last longer, so the perceived lack of lightning energy it an entirely moot point.
@@seanpassant3174 I said a lighting strike secondly I near Watford how near I did not say, yes we get lightning but the last time we had a lightning strike was back in 1990
@@seandempsey9396 No it really wasn't in 1990, that's just the last one you are aware of. Every single time that a lightning event is measured, it is what you would describe as a 'strike' (we would describe it as an event) this is the data that is used in BSEN 62305 to create the flash density map that we then use in our risk assessments, so when I say that the Watford area (please don't split hairs on exact locations that Ng figure covers the whole north London / south Hertfordshire area in any case ) gets 20-22 events a year that is actual physical strikes to ground. You may only recall one strike to a structure near you but I am telling you that there are many, many more easily over 600 in the 30 year period you have used. The UK gets over 260,000 'strikes' every single year. As an example in 2016 we had an especially busy year, that summer we had over 217,000 events in just 89 days close to 2,500 events per day, many of them were in the north London / south Hertfordshire area in fact and you can track them yourself in future if you wish by going here: www.netweather.tv/live-weather/lightning if you wish? For even more information please feel free to check out atlas.org.uk/ or www.dehn.co.uk/en-gb/dehnacademy-uk-main
Thanks guys I will tell my clients to watch your beautifully explained video. One thing what if you have 2 surges that trips the surge protection device what happens to the second surge?
SPD's are not voltage fuses, they are not designed to fail. A well made, correctly installed SPD should last many, many years and multiple events. The testing protocol laid out in BSEN 61643 requires a device to be able to withstand 20 events. Buy decent devices (IE not cheap sh*t off the internet) and you will be providing your client with years of protection.
@@seanpassant3174 Thanks for the information. Is there any literature on the longevity of SPD's. Any guidance in our on site guides or wiring regs books? I'd be interested to know more 😉. BSEN 61643 I can't seen to find the info on 20 events
@@rayc1503 In the UK SPD's should be lasting many years, we have a relatively stable grid and fairly low level of lightning activity (compared to most of the world). I would expect a correctly selected and installed SPD to last 10-15 years. There is a lost of variable so in some circumstances they may not last that long but certainly in domestic settings that would be the sort of time I would be looking for.
So what are fuses on plugs for?
Would an SPD protect against over voltage when loss of neutral conductor occurs in a three phase system and voltages become imbalanced across L1, L2, L3, or are they only designed for brief transient kV sized overvoltage? This is a common issue on holiday parks when an open neutral occurs at the TPN pitch supply pillar and many customers caravans have electronic equipment destroyed inside them.
Great question, I'm not 100% sure but my intuition would be yes depending on the rating of the SPD.
In theory yes but it's highly dependent on the voltage protection level and the imbalance across the phases. Most SPD's sold in the UK have a voltage protection level of around 1.5kV (because table 44.3 in the 17th & 18th editions set the minimum voltage withstand for sensitive equipment at this level). The voltage protection level is effectively the voltage at which the SPD will start to do its job so if the voltage imbalance exceed the voltage protection level then yes the SPD would quench the over voltage event. Anything below this voltage protection level and the SPD won't do anything as it expects that any terminal equipment can cope with a short term exposure to 1.5kV. I hope that makes sense?
@@seanpassant3174 thank you. Good info guys.
My question for this comment is, does the voltage truly become imbalanced and go up on some and down on other connection points or does the testing device just have no zero voltage reference point to measure from any more?
@@KevinCoop1 yes the voltage does increase/decrease on different phases as 240 volt rated equipment is damaged/fried as voltage can rise to over 300 volts. I have seen this with my own eyes on caravan and motorhome parks.
Probably best to say the SPD REDUCES your chance of damage, it's a sacrificial device, in case HVand LV lines clash etc, it's ideal to replace the main switch with a MCB. Also good to have local surge protection behind the TV etc second line of defense
It's really not a sacrificial device. They are not 'voltage fuses'. The testing protocol in BSEN 61643 requires them to be able to deal with 20 transient events. You really should only have to buy one SPD in a 25 year life time if you buy a good quality device and install it correctly.
@@seanpassant3174 please Sir, i do highly appreciate your answer to my questions, - Do SPDs protect against sustained overvoltage because spike and surge are sooo short in time duration ? - Do SPDs protect against brownouts ( Undervoltage ) I highly appreciate your answer
@@kevin00861 SPD's do not provide any protection against undervoltages nor will they protect against a long term small overvoltage, they are quite specific in being designed to deal with very high energy, high frequency short term overvoltages.
But what device van I buy to protect my appliance
🤯⚡Crazy situation / question: I've got a SPD 'installed' in my consumer unit but it's not hooked up to anything! No (L/N) live/neutral incomer at the top and no (PE )protective earth at the bottom... This is a new-build rental property; what would you do about it, not sure how it's happened or who's ultimately responsible? 😅
does a spd defeat the point of the previously owned surge protected extension lead which is alot cheaper and has done a job for years e.g. masterplug surge protected extension lead withy a £10.000 connected equipment warranty
A few Questions Lads, 1,Does it get destroyed with a surge? 2, how can you tell if it has been activated? 3, how can you test it? 4,can it cause loss of power to the CU? thanks
Hi Peter, 1. It's more like it wears out a bit like the brake pads on your car, how long it lasts depends on how many surge events it experiences and how intense they are. 2. Most have a little window with an indicator that changes colour. 3. A bit tricky this one, some specialist equipment required. 4. It won't disconnect the consumer unit from the supply. Hope this helps. 😊
kzhead.info/sun/gZGok9uHeqGGmX0/bejne.html
Don't wait until it's too late. A surge happened when I plugged my PC in and thankfully I was saved due to my surge protector
Wise words
The claping voltage of most spds is to high to offer protection to sensitive electrical devices
At 56 y/o, I've not had one item fail attributable to voltage spikes - to use their proper name. Does everything have to be dumbed down for sparkies ? I may probably had failures due to over-voltage - 259V - light bulbs - the obvious one. The odd boiler transformer on a 6 month old boiler.
This is a video aimed at the consumer - hence a bit of simplification.
@@efixx Tricky !
It is just OTT and over kill for a domestic house. Something nearly all houses will never happen to. If it does happen. It is the fault of the supply company who have built in voltage stabilisers on their side and your home insurance does cover till possibly the regs change.
Might be worth checking the small print, they may cover it once but not any subsequent surge events.
20 years in our house and full of electronic devices and gadgets and no surges so far to report thankfully, it will probably happen tonight after writing this 😂,🙄
@@Niall-yo1uo How do you know you never had a transient or surge? What do you think they look/sound like? Are you expecting a big bang, puff of dark smoke, all the lights go out? 'Cos that's exactly what a type 2 surge event.....does not look like. The type of event that a type 2 device is there for is the wear and tear that over voltage events cause. Ever had an electrical device just stop working after you've only had it 2-3 years or so? If you're a sparky, ever had a customer that's had this? No big drama, no real explanation, only a few years old and now doesn't work? What did you do? Replace it but change brand? Type 2 surge events cause stress on the LV distribution and terminal equipment. Installing an SPD protects against that wear and tear. It makes equipment more robust. It protects the whole installation and makes everything work as it should that little bit longer. That's got to be worth the £40-50 you'd be paying for one right?
Sean I can only speak for my own house. In 20 years nothing has stopped working except for a float switch and a door interlock on a washing machine which I’m pretty sure was not caused by a surge... This tells me the incoming supply is good and I also know from experience at the upstream feeders there are voltage stabilisers/regulators to stop issues like these happening on the downstream supply side designed and commissioned by some very fine engineers... All power system are monitored these days on DCS and SCADA systems which will signal an alarm to the control room operators who will then have the feeders changed over or it will change over automatically through automation and have their maintenance engineers rectify the power system... This is why I believe it is OTT and another money racket...
We went from star to delta whilst an antique street box was self destructing, before loosing supply as the cables melted away. The 415 feed didn’t do much harm beyond killing an old set top box. I’d fitted an MK surge protection twin socket to protect our main computers and an old 750 watt surge protection device looked after our AV gear. Neither of these, nor two surge protection leads in other rooms operated. I’m not sure what this means! I’ll have an SPD fitted if the modern (8 individual RCBO) CU is ever worked on but can’t see any reason to rush?
If we get Surge Protection on fuse board, do we still need to buy surge protected extension lead?
You shouldn’t need to.
@@efixx thanks very much for your answer 👍🏻🙋🏴
@@efixx Wrong answer. SPD in CU is Type2 and SPD in extension lead is Type 3. You need both and a Type 1 on the Service Head. The real reason to fit the SPD in a CU is to protect AFDDs from internal (to the property) surges, it won't protect much else as it is too far away. Do you really want a device that will self destruct next to the main CU switch?
If this is fitted at the consumer unit, does that mean you would no longer need to use surge protection mains power strips for your tv, computer etc?
Yes 👍
@@efixx In the meantime, before we get an SPD installed, will surge protection power strips protect my computer equipment? Cheers
@@efixx Does the answer to this question not depend uppon what type of spd is installed in the consumer unit?
Having had lightning strike the street in front of my house, more than once over the years, with over head power lines, and it caused 0 damage is not really cause for concern.
Main cause for concern which I'm surprised they didn't cover in the video are things like solar weather events such as solar flares and coronal mass ejections as well as electro magnetic pulses. The solar events in particular would require much more extensive protection then just a simple surge protection device.
Did you say anything about a lose of a phase/ neutral fault.
No
Nice tash Gaz 👌
Thanks #proud 🤣
😂😂😂
🧔
AS:3000 2024 revision will start mandating surge arresors fitted - the insurance council of Australia is getting sick of paying for it apparently..
Great video Gaz what’s your pals name...?
That’s Joe Robinson. Best online science teacher in UK ... see Joe Robinson Training 👍
great vid to show customers on why i fit SPD as standard on new and changes, even with the 70's porn tache lol
What is the difference between T1 , T2 & T3 Surge Protection?
JOE... time for a q and a 😉
On it, in the meantime, here's a whole CPD to have a look at! www.efixx.co.uk/Know%20How/BS7671SPD
The difference in devices is based on the wave shapes to which they are tested against. These wave shapes are outlined in BSEN 61643 (low voltage surge protection). A type 1 device should really be called a "lightning arrest device" it is specifically for lightning energy and is tested against the 10/350 wave shape, type 1 devices are always protecting against external surges of atmospheric origin. A type 2 device is a classic 'surge protection device' it is not designed for full lightning energy but instead is there to protect against partial induced lightning energy, transients, over voltages in the supply, switching surges, in rush current issues, surges from large indictive loads etc. They are tested against the 8/20 wave shape and are protecting from non-atmospheric external surges and surges which are caused internally. Both type 1 and type 2 are installed in parallel. A type 3 device is for protecting terminal equipment only, it is designed to protect only against internally created transients & surges. It is usually an in-line, series installation, as a result they have quite limited current capacity (often not more than 16A but there are some 24-32A devices around if you look hard enough). A type 3 is tested against the 8/20 wave shape as well as the 1.5/50 wave shape but at much lower current. I hope this helps?
I didn't feel this video was quite up to the usual high standard - No mention of the different surge protector types, in spite of showing overhead lines, which I understand requires a type1 RCD fitted at the origin of the installation, unlike the type 2s typically shown & supplied with some consumer units. I felt this video was a bit misleading for that scenario. Would love to see a video on fitting a type 1.
This video is aimed at consumers to help explain why an electrician is suggesting surge protection is fitted.
@@efixx I do suspect a lot of electricians wouldn't realise a type 1 SPD is required where there are overhead lines & may I suggest, that although the video is aimed at consumers, it will be viewed by a lot of (possibly more) electricians who may be advising the consumer... I would suggest there isn't much visibility of type 1 devices out there, unless you go looking, or perhaps attend an Elex show. I have never seen one. I am not sure if even David Savery has fitted one... Yet we are telling people that they are a pretty much a no brainer when they have lots of electronics in the house.
Cost vs value is important, but cost alone is very important unless you are swimming in money. Maybe "I've lived without for this long" or "what are the odds" are balanced against the up front cost of protection.
A single phase type 2 SPD for a domestic application should be no more than £50 at the very most, many are considerably less than that. If you do a cost v value of installation comparison you would ALWAYS end up installing the SPD. It's also important to realise that insurance companies may pay for some damage but they will not pay out twice and they will not cover consequential losses (unless you have a dedicated CL policy). They aren't daft they know SPD's exist, they know they work and they know that installing one would mean you wouldn't need to make a claim. In addition with this now being in 18th edition you can expect terminal equipment manufacturers white goods, TV & Audio equipment etc to start changing their T&C's to say that if you do not have SPD's installed they will not cover warranty. This is already the law in Germany so expect the likes of Krupp, Miele, B&O, Bosch, NEFF etc to start doing the same here in the UK.
Not convinced it's worth it for houses fed by underground cables. Overhead lines, much more likely to be useful.
Where do you think most of the surges that effect domestic houses come from? I'll give you a clue, it isn't external, it isn't from overhead lines and it isn't anything to do with lightning. In the UK, for overhead lines you need a type 1 SPD, this is not about those, this is about the type 2 devices that BS7671 wants you to install and for the £40-50 the single phase type 2 SPD would cost that are definitely worth it.
A lightning strike to the ground will induce a surge into your underground cables. Also surges come in thru telephone lines or satellite and cable lines.
Lightning strikes are not the only cause surges, they can also be caused by enormous electric appliances like microwaves, fridges, and air conditioners. And appliances like that are used way more often than how often a lightning bolt smacks your home.
Not saying it doesn't happen, but how many surge events have you seen? Anyone got any stats on type 1 & 2 events nation wide? Me personally I've been in the industry for over 25 years & I've not even heard of one happening, let alone witnessed one. Nice revenue stream for the manufactures & whole salers! Call me cynical but I think the IET is on the take here. Another point worth mentioning...House insurance? maybe some people wont mind all there old crap getting blown, then they'll have a good spend up on the insurers?
Never had experience with surge damage in the UK. It was fairly common back in my home country to the point you can see elmo fire around sockets but in UK not sure if someone ever had problem with surge
"the ipad wont boot up ............what could have caused this Joe ??" "your porn mustache ???"
And this is from the guys that promote Ring Circuits that have circuit protection rated above the cable size.
Say what? 🤔
Never had or never ever would I fit an SPD. Unless everyone in the local area also has an SPD. Does that say something in that if there ever was a fault it would track me first, seeking a low resistant pathway via the SPD.
Not even if BS 7671 requires it?
And what was the thing about ring circuits, you lost me there bud.
@@bigwoodrz I don't think you understand how an SPD works. It is not resistance driven. It creates a temporary short circuit to earth. Over voltage events do not go out "tracking down" SPD's. You do raise a good point though, part of the point in BS7671 wanting more SPD's installed is so that there is greater robustness against over voltage events in the LV distribution system so it would be more beneficial if everyone installed them.
Just out of curiosity, how many people have actually come across jobs where a surge event has taken place? Been an electrician since 1997 and to be fair have never attended a job where a surge event has caused problems.
In rural west Aus, seen it a few times, lightning can be a bugger, destroyed sensitive electronics, ac, tv, 2way radios and repeater and a 4G booster system. Seen it shit aircon circuit boards, a direct strike to a 500m2 shed caised an arc on a socket that had a plug in it. Lightning is interesting, a house can get hit and have no probs, another loses half the house.
With so many more customers now having a £30k+ EV plugged in at night, what's £100 to save that, the TVs, computers, gaming consoles, microwaves, fridges, dishwashers, cookers, etc in the house? Bu99er all, that's what. Good advice boys.
Why am I thinking "Metal Oxide Varistors" ?
Well I’m not disagreeing they shouldn’t be fitted. I think they have limited protection.When I was an apprentice a church got struck by lightening . The whole rank of cottages some distance away , literally had meters and fuseboards blown to bits and internal damage in fact i still have one of the old blown up boxes . A surge protector is not going to stop that. Also in the past on one job we had a surge that done lots of damage and the electric board paid for repair. When I was a kid most people would pull the aerial lead out the back of the Tv so lightning or static wouldn’t damage the Tv if a storm was on the way.. who does that in this day and age
The correct surge protector in conjunction with a lightning protection system on the church probably would have prevented it actually.
@@efixx the church did have a lightning conductor. . When it was struck the lightning jumped from the ground conductor. About 20ft off the ground blowing A 2ft hole in the church wall and we know how thick church walls are. Then jumped to the main switch gear. . I do take your point that the lightning conductor may of not been up to it.
@@andysims4906 Very few churches in the UK have compliant lightning protection systems. They simply do not have the budget and herein is part of the problem, poorly installed and maintained lightning protection can be worse than none at all. Many churches have a single down conductor on their steeple or tower, this means just one route to dissipate up to 200kA of lightning energy. They are old, poorly maintained and rarely inspected (usually just once every 5 years when the church has its quinquennial inspection) lightning is unique because it's the only fault current that cannot return to source so it behaves differently from normal LV/HV faults. Please do not judge lightning protection or surge protection performance on what you may have once seen at a church.
To be honest I don't give my customers the option, I just fit them, they are cheap enough now, and if I don't get the job for the sake of £30, then I won't be loosing any sleep over it
Wise words 👍
Why is everyone saying they offer surge protection when a requirement for surge protection on new fuseboard a has been part of the wiring regs for over a year now?
It's a good question. Unfortunately, change seems to take time.
Jesus......I fitted a smoothing capacitor, no more problems......the PME earth is terribly noisey where I live, two massive quarrys and a Dock yard that all use dc
Don’t know why everyone is so against fitting them, I fit surge protected boards as standard now as the regs and NICEIC suggest. Bigger profit margin too.
And that is why you need to be challenged about the justification for fitting one.
@@JimWhitaker The justification is that unless you carry out the CRL assessment in BS7671 to prove that you do not need the SPD then you should be installing one. Even for small domestic properties you should do the very minimum of a cost against risk assessment and a £50 SPD is always going to be more cost effective than a £1,000 rewire and a new £500 HD TV. The challenge should be to those sparkies that still insist they don't have to install them and believe that a simple bit of paper from the home owner to say "no thanks I didn't fancy one" meets their requirements under BS7671 18th edition.
So £100 plus labour. You can buy at least 10 wall-mounted surge protectors for that! How many years before the SPD has to be replaced with a new one for another £100 plus labour? How many people will think that they have surge protection but the device on the board has expired? Also "Call your electrician." Sure! How many people will now be pressured by electricians to replace the whole consumer unit in order to accommodate a SPD? Some facts, but mainly about taking money off of of the beleaguered consumer - nice one!
Most surge devices in the consumer unit can be replaced by changing pluggable cartridge. With many homes having £1000's worth of electronic devices - £100 isn't a huge investment. You can fit the device in the main tails to the property so you don't need a consumer unit change.
Not sure what you mean by "wall mounted", if you are referring to the plug in tailing leads with so called 'built in' surge protection then please do some research. They contain a small cheap gas discharge tube that will not be tested against the correct wave shapes or to the correct voltage / current levels required by BSEN 61643-11 so they do not compare in any way shape or form with the type of devices that BS7671 is asking to be installed. You can get a decent single phase type 2 & 3 combined SPD for a domestic application for about £30 and they can be installed without any need for a new consumer unit in under an hour. BUT the 18th edition is NOT retrospective so you'd only be having this discussion if you were having significant new electrical work carried out and the cost is more than justified.
You can argue it any way you want. The truth is that "The Regs" have reached the point where the benefit of many "improvements" are often marginal and end up costing the consumer more.
@@simongreenidge6454 But this shows a total lack of understanding of the subject. SPD's were invented in 1952, they are not new. They were invented because the old mechanical and electromechanical devices were being replaced by electrical devices, these were subject to transients and could be damaged, the older equipment could not. Since then we have moved from electrical to electronic and with each step forward we actually make our equipment, devices and systems more susceptible to the effects of surges so it follows that we need something to protect them. We also include more technology in our lives and are more reliant on that technology so it becomes increasingly important to protect it. The push towards green technology drives this too, it's just a simple fact that LED's are far more susceptible to transients than tungsten filament lamps are. For years the focus in standards has been looking at over current protection, now because our devices have less naturally occurring withstand built in, they need over voltage protection and it is only right that this imbalance is now being addressed. So this is nothing other than introducing a protective device to build in a robustness and a level of withstand into our homes, offices, factories etc that will, in the long term save money because distribution systems will be more robust, less likely to fail and need less maintenance or replacement. Now you can choose to ignore these facts if you wish but please don't try to tell me that you are talking the 'truth'.
@@seanpassant3174 I never stated that SPDs do not have technical merit. My decades of experience with sensitive electronic devices, powered directly off of the UK mains, is that the usefulness of SPDs to the average household is probably overrated (particularly by those selling such devices and their installation to consumers).
In all my years, I've never heard of any equipment being damaged.
It happens.
Do you know what surge or transient damage looks like Craig? Genuine question because I hear this a lot from electricians but absolutely none of them do know what surge damage looks like. It absolutely is not the big bang, flash, black smoke little pieces all over the place catastrophic event immediately following some lightning activity that 99.9% of them imagine it will be. The devices the wiring regs wants you to install are very specifically not lightning rated and the 18th edition actually states that it is not for surges from atmospheric conditions. So these are surges that are often created internally within the LV distribution system and often they are such small events that you wouldn't know they'd happened and you know what, the equipment doesn't even fail but then there is a 2nd event and then a 3rd and eventually it does fail but not in a spectacular way, it just stops working. The client replaces it and they think "it wasn't worth spending that extra £150 on a fancy Miele dishwasher I might as well buy a cheap one" because instead of it lasting 15-20 years its stopped after 5 or 6. Type 2 SPD's are there to deal with the stress caused to equipment & LV distribution systems by overvoltage events. They make everything more robust, everything lasts a bit longer. Those LED lamps that said on the box they'd last 20 years, well now they will.
@@seanpassant3174 no, that's what I'm saying. I've never been to any persons house and they've said something has blew up, stopped working etc. As you say there, its probably something so small and they just buy a new one and not consulted an electrician.
Preferirei che distribuite voi li...io posso fare sempre pubblicità con videos.. dobbiamo entrare in un accordo ok!? La mia idea è di fare così.. Grazie!
If the surge protection devices doesn't disconnect the power from the electronic equipment your trying to save from a surge / when your green indicator turns red there's no point in having a surge protection devices
There very much is, the surge protection device absorbs the damage a spike in the voltage can cause and protects equipment that way.
@@efixx yes I understand, but when the surge protection device stops protecting you i.e. the window goes red, you don't know and the next surge damages your electronic equipment. Unless the surge protection unit disconnects the power from the electronic equipment your trying to save from a surge its pointless surely
You have to do an assessment first . If not correct then you have to fit one ... I fit them always now . 👍.. then we may have ark fault detection to deal with 😂😂
Exciting times ahead! Watch this space. 👍
I bet he isn't recommending AFDDs 🤣
I’m i’m only watching it because moustache🤣
🤦🏻♂️... 🤣🦾👍
Lol. Regs are so out dated. Surge protector, aka inductor. Cheap electronic devices don't have the tiny penny parts to avoid this problem. My important electronic devices are isolated from main power. Wouldn't have it any other way
how are you doing the isolation to use them still? - UPS?
@@efixx you can find them in more expensive hardware. If KZhead allowed picture replies as it did then I could show. Normally there are two inductors. One for current and one for isolation and three filters.
Don't see why we should take advice from someone whose first name is hulk!?!
there is no such thing that can protect your home from a direct lightning hit
But if you do get hit by lightning, your surge protector will be destroyed, not your thousands of dollars worth of devices
Safety inflation
That moustache looks so stupid I’m sorry to say Gary is this a midlife crises sort of moment now lol
It was for Movember
OMG shave it off!!!