Drawabox Lesson 0, Part 5: The Tools We Recommend
Throughout this course, we try and focus only on having students go out and get tools that will meaningfully impact their learning experience. In this video, we explore exactly why we focus so much on using ink throughout the lessons, why digital tools - while excellent for production - are not the best for learning, as well as some useful tips about your desk setup.
The reading for this video is available at drawabox.com/lesson/0/4. You can find all the free lessons at drawabox.com
00:00 Intro
00:33 Why we use ink
01:08 Why we don't use digital tools for this course
01:40 Digital tools are all about speed and efficiency
03:31 Learning is not about being fast
04:37 Ink forces you to take your time
05:05 Why not pencil/ballpoint/gel pens/etc.
08:03 New Masters Academy Discount
08:47 Different brands of fineliners
11:40 Cheaper fineliners from Drawabox
13:36 Different coloured pens for analyzing our work
14:13 Brush pens
15:45 Paper and sketchbooks
17:27 Rulers and straight edges
18:00 More advanced tools we use later in the course
18:47 Ellipse guides
20:21 Your desk and chair setup
Links from the video:
Introduction to Materials with Sheldon Borenstein: drawabox.com/nma/introtomater...
Introduction to Inking with Miles Yoshida: drawabox.com/nma/introtoinking
Introduction to Photoshop with Chris Legaspi: drawabox.com/nma/introtophoto...
Drawabox's Fineliners: drawabox.com/shop/pens?yt
ScyllaStew's KZhead Channel (where you'll find reviews of many different fineliner brands): / scyllastew
New Masters Academy: drawabox.com/nma
Use the code DRAWABOX22 to get a substantial discount off your first billing cycle on New Masters Academy. On release of this video, the discount was 35%, however this may change. Check the banner at the top of drawabox.com for the most accurate information.
You'll also find a list of fineliner brands here: drawabox.com/lesson/0/4/pens
Most of the pudgy-student illustrations were done by sluggydragon. Check out her work over on instagram: / sluggydragon
Other Links:
Drawabox Discord Server: / discord
Patreon: / uncomfortable
The typos on the fineliners just make them limited edition.
Imagine them being sold for $900,000,000 dollars because of its rarity.
@@Elec.Balloon calm down sir
@@Elec.Balloon i got mine in a mall for about 1.5 dollars, but since it's the only thing of it's kind and also a 0.8 I may need to find another, damn might also do some online shopping
That chair height tip was GOLD. I have never been this comfortable on chair & table in my whole life.
I'm glad to hear it helped!
If anyone reading this is actually worried about cost and whatnot, just use pencil or ballpoint. It doesn't matter your medium so much as that you draw and practice and do so deliberately. Don't worry about the medium. Practice what you want to learn with and don't get so hung up on what you use because then you'll never draw.
And because by picking a medium you are going to pick up on fundamentals that can be transferred to other mediums as you grow and warp.
And if you are bent on learning to draw you can use pens in digitial program that mimic identical feel, texture and flow and apply that through graphical tablet/drawing tablet on a screen. You can ignore all the fancy brushes guide liners and etc and follow this course 100% without worrying about expenses that come with "tradional" medium The only caveat is getting a bit used to drawing "traditionally" in this medium through stylos and a bit different perspective, but you do that more or less with traditional drawing as well. Then later on, you can move to fancy stuff tools provide but overall, you can learn all about shading, texturing, perspective, and etc through just drawing with a simulated pen and empty canvas
I don't agree that learning on devices is inherently bad, but I do agree that wanting to improve fast is an obstacle. People come to me for art advice and one of the first things I'd recommend is Drawabox, but over time I've changed my mind about the insistence on using fine-liners or other traditional mediums. While yes, there is a problem with people being impatient or lacking fulfilment from taking too long to learn something, the lack of committal to mistakes and accepting them, from my experience there is a significant mental health component to this where if you're struggling to accept mistakes within art, or you're frustrated with lack of progress, this is very likely going to be the case for not only any sort of creative pursuit, but any hobby at all worth investing time into as an adult. I'm not going to go too deep into the reasons for this, but some of them being a childhood that expects/spoils someone with compliments, a lifetime of media consumption from creatives who already have a head start in whatever sort of medium, a society or social media that encourages behavior in which would-be creatives constantly compare themselves to professionals who have been doing this for years, etc. These are just a few, but definitely not all of some of the obstacles that can slow people down in learning just about anything in adulthood, not just illustration. In this sense then, having someone use a fine-liner for all exercises at the very start seems like a good suggestion. It's not a bad idea, it's a suggestion made with good intentions, but it's a forceful approach where it's efficacy is reinforced by those who would've been happy to do the exercises in this way in the first place. In other words, the people who do the fine-liner exercises exactly as prescribed will probably say it works. Those who fall off the exercise or decide it's not worth their time, despite saying they want to draw, will not say anything at all, or ask "do I have to do this with a fine-liner?", and this point of the material might actually stop people from drawing, and I will explain why I believe that is a problem. The issue with this suggestion ( and again, I understand is made with good intentions ), is that I think it is somewhat unaware of the larger context surrounding things such as performance anxiety, motivation, acceptance of mistakes, when it comes to not only drawing, but learning anything at all. If someone is struggling with any of these issues for art, like I said earlier, it is likely a problem that affects their life more thoroughly than just their inability to overcome these things in the context of learning art. I'm not sure if this piece of advice was picked up from a tutor or mentor or perhaps in the context of a classroom where everybody in the classroom was already there because they were all ready and prepared to learn, but even so, this misses the angle that these issues may be coming from a mental health perspective, and I wouldn't necessarily expect an art teacher to understand how to handle mental health issues ( not in as an insult ). While I wouldn't be able to say whether or not this specifically has helped alleviate these issues for people who face them, I would say these problems typically extend far beyond learning how to draw, and that making someone use a fine-liner in an attempt to get them to accept mistakes is a bit of a hard sell, considering how difficult these issues are to resolve with professional help from mental health experts. And yes, while people do face problems with accepting mistakes and exposure therapy is a thing, I just don't believe this specifically is a good way to tackle that problem. These are issues that are behaviors likely to have been learnt throughout a lifetime, and aren't something that can be unlearnt overnight for the sake of pursuing a hobby. I will point out there are many forms of therapy out there that include art, play and hobbies with evidence to suggest they work, but I don't think Drawabox needs a self-help component like this. If someone is facing these issues, my suggestion would be to seek a councilor or therapist, or to find ways to alleviate or work through it within the context of their personal mental health. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, once again, these problems affect so much more than drawing. These obstacles that are attributed to progress are, again, obstacles that probably also affect other aspects of someone's life. Despite all this, I will still recommend Drawabox as what I believe to be one of the most important resources for learning how to draw from scratch available on the internet, and for free. I think the material is well written, and explains the technical and motor aspects of illustration very well and in plain English. It is one of the most popular resources for learning how to draw on the internet for a good reason, and is often brought up during conversations involving beginners learning how to draw. If you ask me, I think asking people to use specific tools is something that might stop people from drawing. I will agree that tools don't make the artist and that you shouldn't need to buy a piece of software or a tablet before beginning an art journey, I will agree that learning art, or anything for that matter, is not a race and that the hobby is more important than the career, and I will agree that it is not about where somebody else is, but where you are right now and whether you can be better than yourself. A lot of the time, people asking me for help will have some form of performance anxiety or fear of mistakes that prevent them from trying in the first place. To me, that means the biggest obstacle would then be getting started at all. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is drawing with pen and paper, or a cintiq, or an iPad, it matters that they are drawing at all with the medium that personally makes it the most easy for them to access and express their desire to create. The tools in my experience aren't that important, the motivation being in place is. Speaking in a broader sense, people only need to learn as much as they need to create something they are personally satisfied with. Anyone who is healthy in this regard to their own attitude towards learning is going to make the effort to learn more and take on more complex techniques to be able to make what they want to make. If you find your students facing problems with committal and failure, I don't think it's because they aren't drawing with a fine-liner. Drawabox is a fantastic resource for learning technical skills, but I don't think is a remedy to these problems. Apologies if any of this is weird to read, a youtube comment section isn't exactly an ideal environment for long posts
For the most part, we are not really in disagreement - except that many of the things you mention here are things I actually address myself in a video/section that comes up prior to this one in the course - that is, the one discussing the 50% rule, here: drawabox.com/lesson/0/2 . There I talk about the critical importance of spending half one's time drawing just for the sake of drawing, without the expectation of having something turn out nicely in the end, or having to benefit from it in some way. Just to draw, to recapture the feeling of playing rather than worrying about learning and growing at every turn. There I also discuss the importance of *not* pursuing this course as therapy, and to actually seek professional, trained help in addressing any of the many mental health concerns one might have, which are very common when it comes to people looking to learn how to draw online. I also stress the importance of not doing art as therapy *without the guidance of a professional* - that it's not something to self-medicate with, because it can serve to exacerbate those problems and more severely impact one's self-esteem. The recommendations made here are presented through that lens, with the assumption that a student is going through the material in order. I also explain that at the end of the day the student can decide what's best for them. These are recommendations I make for what I have both found helps students learn the most effectively (based on both my own experience with, as you said, professional instruction in a classroom environment where everyone was ready to accept its requirements, albeit after 10 solid years of digital self-teaching), as well as in the experiences of my students - which include both people who were willing to work with ink from the get-go, as well as those who struggled with the decision and either on their own or through conversation with me or other community members, decided to trust in the recommendation. You will find many people in our community in that second group, and among them many will attest to that switch having made a significant impact. None of these are without survivorship bias - that is, what you were describing in that those who stick around are those for whom the recommendations were beneficial, and those for whom the recommendations may have done nothing or been harmful would remove themselves from the equation before ever having been able to be part of the sample. That said, when setting up a course like this, we have to decide what it is we're looking to achieve. We'd all love to be able to help every individual's circumstance and need, but unfortunately with our limited resources, we have to pick our battles. The course has been designed first and foremost on the premise of providing free resources that each student can choose how they wish to employ - even at the end of this video, I mention that ultimately you make the decision for yourself. Secondly, the course is focused on providing cheap, reliable feedback in the form of official critique, but in order to do so, we must eliminate everything that can potentially increase the likelihood any individual student may pull excessively from those resources. Very early on, I did actually accept digital submissions, but it became very clear at the time that they had a greater tendency to be rushed and haphazard, whereas those done in ink tended to show a far greater investment of time both in reading/following the instructions, and in taking their time with each action performed as part of their homework. This is where the recommendation becomes a requirement - if students wish to participate in official critique, where in order to function, not all students' circumstances can be addressed. And as such, anything that pertains to my own whims, philosophies, or hypotheses are presented with the final say falling to the student themselves. While many people individually will struggle when given a choice (ie: a person may ultimately benefit more from working in ink, and may be capable of benefitting from it, but may ultimately find that first step to be very difficult to take without external pressure), I do believe that only the individual can understand the full breadth of their own limitations, and that it is not my place to make those choices for them. When however it impacts our ability to provide the service, while holding to our goals of maintaining low prices (which themselves are lower than what we pay our teaching assistants for the corresponding critiques), it does become necessary to create more solid restrictions. But of course, we have free community feedback without such firm restrictions as an alternative.
@@Uncomfortablethis comment and reply are obviously pretty serious but I can't help but laugh how you replied a long post with another long post lmao
If someone wants to learn digital art, he can make the course, as required, by using ink and take some additional time for some learning and fun time with digital painting. I can recommend this very much, since thus you can learn short-cuts, get a feeling for the pen etc. so you don’t have such a tough change after you finished the draw a box course.
I very much agree with this statement. The 50% rule is an excellent opportunity to dive into getting accustomed to the use of digital tools. Drawing and painting digitally can be a hell of a lot of fun, and can also be an excellent opportunity to lay some basic foundation/familiarity for working professionally with them in the future.
It definitely depends on the person... I improved drastically when I picked up digital drawing, and that progress went over to paper quite easily as well. I think the main reason is that I'm getting way more muscle memory from all the lines that I can make and correct more easily than on paper. Also, thanks to the tools and flipping the canvas, I can notice and correct my mistakes which makes me learn waaay more efficiently! I can't do this as well on paper, it's a hassle and gets messy very quickly. I'm not going to lie, drawabox on paper isn't for me, but it is digitally. I think there's also a psychological factor that plays into this, as I feel less pressure and performance anxiety doing things digitally. Makes me less afraid to commit to my lines and make mistakes, and learn from them. I tried to learn on paper for years but couldn't get it to work (including drawabox 2 times, a year apart). And then made the same amount of efforts on digital- life changer. Of course that's personal, people are different. I think everyone should find their own- and best- way to learn, because not everything will work for you and sometimes it's better to adapt things than to adapt to things. Sometimes it just won't work and you need to try another way.
I love this whole comment to the core. This video is also having me contemplate changing my learning plan a bit, maybe implementing a mix of these exercises and using digital media. Like, say, perhaps I do these exercises on paper with pen like they say, but also practice the same thing using digital art. Another potential thing I could do is maybe draw something, do the exercises, then draw another thing and compare them to see how I improved. . . That is what I am going to try anyways, I still think that personally a portion of my practice will still be digital (Such as anatomy or something)
digital feels really weird to me and i have restarted drawabox twice already on paper, im considering doing a third run digitally just to get that mileage and feel comfortable with a tablet. how has it served you so far?
Thank you for this comment. I was excited when I found this KZhead channel earlier today then immediately stressed out when I saw this video and jumped right to the comments. Digital has been a game changer for me with my art progress. Especially with a toddler around. It's just a lot easier and convenient to sneak in some drawing breaks between hours of parenting without my son destroying hours of work on physical medium. Lol now I can just quickly undo whatevee he did on my drawings or often create a new blank layer on top of my current work when he gets close and not worry. 😅
For what it's worth I've been following the lessons using a fineliner brush in procreate and apple pencil and feel like I'm getting the exact same experience as when I tried using fineliners on paper, except I'm using way less paper and save myself having to buy physical fineliners. It's just way more convenient for me to do it on procreate too because I can practice anywhere, and it helps me familiarize with markmaking on the ipad since 100% of my drawing is on ipad anyways. Just throwing my thoughts out there to anyone hesitant to do the lessons digitally on ipad, I want to reassure you it's totally fine.
Fair, I would recommend people to try for themselves. I started digitally but fineliner is a thing on its own level. In my experience it has been easier to bring what I learn from paper to screen easier than the other way around. 🙃🙃🙃
Can you recommend a procreate brush to use for the course?
I needed this course so badly. It's changing my entire mindset and how I approach and think about my art. Thank you for this course!
30 years of aimless doodling I can confirm: Staedler pigment liner is the Roll's Royce for ink drawing. 0.5 and lower are a treat to work with.
What a fine time to be diving into this course
Please, don't bring *that* Neoreactionary movement into this.
That last section was super wholesome, a lot of times it can be easy to forget one's own health with learning, thank you kindly for highlighting that!
Having a drawing board is a low cost alternative to an expensive drafting table while still allowing for a 45 degree drawing surface. I love mine. I set it on my knees and lean its back against my desk. At that point I adjust move my chair back and forth to get to the desired angle.
Nice update, thank you for all your hard work
I feel like iteration (repetition with small adjustments) is the quickest way to improve at almost any skill, so in that sense the Ctrl + Z option is priceless. You can re-draw the same mark until it matches the image in your head, and by getting it wrong a bunch of times first you also understand why *not* to draw it like that. That negative feedback and frustration build up helps cement the information in your mind. As someone who enjoys drawing with ink I wish we had a Ctrl + Z option for the real world. (FYI I don't do digital art but what I said above is why I always found it appealing. What is stopping me is the interface between the pen and the screen that most entry level tablets have, which feels separated somehow, and I'm not ready to drop $2k on a proper tablet).
Thank you so much for your lessons! I've been trying to learn art for a few months now, and only now have I realised how I can really start to work. I'm a very busy person, so I'm sure it will be hard to keep up with the course while working towards other goals I have set for myself, but I haven't felt this motivated to do art in a while. Again, thanks a lot for your lessons.😊😊
Thank you for the kind words - and best of luck keeping up with the course! Above all else, remember that we determine the pace that works for us - so don't worry about comparing how you move through it with others, as we all have different things going on in our lives that we must work around.
@@Uncomfortable I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
Very excited for this
I just recently started using fineliners and holy shit do they feel so good to draw with I feel like I have alot more control over my lines and curves
I'm glad to hear it!
I cant thank you enough for this! I am looking forward to support you all in the future, your lessons really help me alot! God bless
I'm glad to hear that you're finding the lessons helpful!
I'd say one thing that goes for digital art though is long term money, because long term, even more when learning, we're gonna use quite a bit of paper, and quite a bit of ink, while individually they are way cheaper than a drawing tablet, over time the cost can really increase and become like 10x the amount we would have paid for a drawing tablet so I'd say when we don't have a big art budget and all we have is a drawing tablet, it kind of ends up being the only real accessible way to practice a lot without wasting paper and ink, thus avoiding the requirement to spend even more money to get more
Answers SO many questions people have! Excellent work guys!!!
I’m 2 days in and watching videos and reading take a lot of the time. I allow my self 2 hours (1 for study and one for 50% time). I can tell I’m in for a long one hahahahaha.
Uncomfy! just a quick question, I followed Drawabox to the lessons of drawing animals, including reviewing previous lessons to hone my draftsmanship and confidence. The issue is: I became good at fine liners and confidence in traditional art > but I degraded exponentially in digital art. I find it easy to draw a plane and a circle with better than average accuracy or create a simple solid insect drawing that's not too messy, but drawing digitally looks like some 5 yr old scribbles. Can I mix both traditional and digital media for the lessons and warmups?
I still wouldn't recommend it, because that's not how the course works - it doesn't teach you to draw with fineliners. What you need is mileage with digital tools to get used to them again (you probably got rusty because you weren't using them as much) - so make sure you're still using those digital tools. Whether it's while following the 50% rule (which is what we recommend, using digital tools there if that's what you ultimately want to be using), or by cutting down on the time spent on drawabox to include courses that actually are designed to be done digitally. Using them for your drawabox work however is just going to undermine how effectively you absorb this lesson material, by trying to use it for something it wasn't intended for.
Thanks so much
Ill do anything im this course but im drawing digital thats what im gonna be doing for work when I get good at it so I might as well start there
I didn’t watch this video, I’ve already went through all the old ones. I’m currently working on perspective for architectural skill and to draw landscapes, and I’m taking notes on my iPad because it’s more efficient. I try to go traditional but as for planning scenes and taking notes about perspective, it’s way more efficient and time saving digitally. For Drawabox I already follow the rules of everything being traditional and I know this is an outside issue, but I just wanted input if it’s the correct choice for efficiency in learning.
I think it's less a black and white matter, and more a spectrum. There's definitely room to make the argument that *touching* a PC even to watch Drawabox videos and stuff is involving digital tools, and that'll have an effect... but obviously that's taking it to such an extreme. When it comes to taking notes, I think I'd still probably do it traditionally, but I think that's a choice everyone needs to come to for themselves.
@@Uncomfortable Studies have shown the act of physically writing notes aids in information retention. I do wonder how this translates to digital notetaking since I've always found it kind of cumbersome and you often only need to write as legibly as the software can pick up.
So... the video never really explained WHY ink makes you work any more slowly or deliberately than digital tools... Just because computers are intended for doing things fast, that doesn't mean they PREVENT you from doing things slowly. Like, is there or is there not any real difference in the physical motions my hand will make when I draw on a tablet vs drawing on paper, if my intention to be slow and deliberate is the same in both cases? That's the real question that I wanted an answer to.
This is a very interesting video. Different from most videos but in a good way. Please continue on making more videos so we have more content to watch.
I think the most interesting videos are always going to be in the context of things like Lesson 0, where it's more about discussing what to expect (and what expectations one might have for one's self may be unreasonable), how things impact the way in which one might learn, and so on. Our main priority is to steadily work through the course material and update/overhaul all of the videos and demos in order to incorporate adjustments and changes to how it's all delivered, but for a good while as we move through the other lessons, it'll end up having a greater focus on the technical. Once all that's finished - which probably won't be for a good while - or perhaps once we've gotten past Lesson 2, I hope to put out more videos that don't fit directly into any given lesson, but rather addresses more general issues and misconceptions, more of the sort that you'd see here in Lesson 0. I look forward to getting to it, but first it's important that we get through the slog of the remaining overhaul.
Bro please, can u give us basics shape manipulation for drawing like box
Have you guys ever considered adding a applying construction to buildings/archetecture lesson?
No, it isn't something that would really fit in the course. Reason being, the lessons aren't about plants, or insects, or animals, or vehicles - they're about exploring constructional drawing as an exercise, with the limited focus on developing one's spatial reasoning skills. So in that sense, introducing other topics would only make sense if it contributed in some way to developing those spatial reasoning skills in ways the existing topics do not.
im using drawabox to learn how to use my new graphic tablet and also learn how to actually draw cuz im a cs student interested in game design but i dont draw on paper tho i tried a little but still im using this to learn with my graphic tablet so is it ok if i just use it im not into paper rly and i rly spent a lot to get this tablet to work on ...
Who is learning drawing and English at same time? 😄 That's really much effort
I agree with your thoughts on digital tools! After over a decade of using tablets starting at an early age, I have come to realize that heavy emphasis on practice on these devices has definitely held me back. My mark making skills and quality are not very good, and that's probably due to the forgiving nature of tablets with undo and endless erasing. I still will use my tablet of course but I'm getting back into ink and gouache now to fill the gaps I've been missing for so long!
Exactly, treat it just like paper and wallah! You won't make the same mistake the idiot above me did. This video is made by and for idiots. Period.
@@IISeverusll perhaps you're right, I was foolish for relying on those tools too much. that being said, I liked the art I made and graduated art school with good marks. i would just correct until i got it right, I always worked in forgiving mediums like charcoal and oil painting for school. so it's not just a tablet issue. it's just something that I noticed I was a weakness from my time on tablets, and ink would be a good tool for that purpose to master it. i'd rather have the poor line quality, however, than your know-it-all asshole attitude.
@@sunset_opal he’s trolling on almost every comment, don’t listen to him
I understand the reasoning in the video that drawing ink maybe better, but i will stick to drawing digitally cuz if i do it this way I can dedicate myself to draw almost every day, while I would not start drawing at all with ink. I would probably find excuses to not do it and do something else.
Sounds like you've told yourself that story and sold it as your only truth. You can learn to do both.
@@jonathanthompson592 You maybe right, but before digital drawing i tried doing it on paper for a few months and I did not enjoy it as much as digital drawing after that. Still, I am not saying you are wrong, but i am comfortable in this way.
@@mihalysebok2840 in fairness as long as you do the course to the best of your abilities you should be fine however I would agrue that being Uncomfortable (bum bum tiss) is a necessary step for learning and prevailing over challenges in life however it is up to you ultimately
You can either be comfortable or improve. You can't have both. Wrong choice
Hi. I am a bit confused about the necessity of using fine liner pens. Maybe someone could help me. Given that the purpose of doing the Drawbox course is to learn spatial reasoning, mark making, and observation why will my results be substandard if I don’t use fine liner pens. Searching the web, I discovered that fine liner pens were invented by Yukio Horie of the Tokyo Stationery Company, Japan in 1962. Consider Brunelleschi (i.e., the father of perspective), Michelangelo, Albrecht Durer, Hans Holbein the Younger, Ingres, and Andrew Loomis. For a more complete list please reference any art history textbook. All of these artists learned and mastered spatial reasoning, superior mark making, and observation without using a fine liner pen. After all, fine liner pens were created after and in most case centuries after these artists mastered these skills. Why is it that I as a student cannot master spatial reasoning, mark making, and observation in this course without using fine liner pens? Thank you for any help in clarifying my confusion.
The use of fineliners go hand in hand with the way in which *this* course was designed. I personally don't know the approaches that old masters used to learn, but I know that the manner in which I was taught, the specific qualities of fineliners helped a lot as well. There are *plenty* of courses out there, which take entirely different routes to focus on the concepts they believe to be most important. Most of the teaching methods I've seen (which are quite different from the way I was taught, and the way I teach here) don't actually prioritize spatial reasoning, and so they pick tools that reinforce the things they emphasize. Your question suggests that I stated that fineliners are the *only* way to go. As stated at the end of the video, students are welcome to use these resources in whatever way they choose - they're freely available. These are merely recommendations on how one can ostensibly get the most out of the material I provide. They only become requirements when it comes to those submitting for official, paid critique, wherein it becomes such a firm rule because in our experience as a likely result of them aligning better with the concepts from the lessons, it generally results in students who understand and apply those concepts more effectively, making it easier for us to offer feedback as cheaply as we do. We only make things firm requirements when they impact our ability to provide the services we do, and how much we need to charge for them to be feasible. While that suggests that it is in your better interest to follow those recommendations should you plan on using the free community feedback route, we leave those decisions up to you. Nothing said here is absolute, nor is it framed that way. Even the slightly incendiary phrasing in the thumbnail uses relative phrasing - not that digital tools are wrong or bad, but that they are (for the reasons I explain in the video) *less* effective for the purposes of learning.
@@Uncomfortable Hi. Thank you for clarifying that this is the way you were taught and it is the way you teach and in no way imply that the objectives of learning spatial reasoning, mark making, and observation art limited to specific media, tool, or course. Just that if a student wishes to participate fully in the Drawabox course (i.e., getting formal feedback) they need to follow these requirements.
@@fredkeebler7820 really nicely handled. If only the internet was as well mannered as you when not meeting agreement.
Starting now
I just want to say thank u you made my learning way easy 🌹
My pleasure! Though.. it does get hard. Very hard
@@Uncomfortable i think if u love some thing u do it becomes easier
Well...unfortunately for me I'll have to use a pencil and or a ballpark pen because I cannot afford to purchase a fineliner at this current time. I'm a bus driver and currently out of work until the school year starts, so I'll have to do what I can with what I have until I'm able to get one.
2:47 I remember Jung once said "Beware of unearned wisdom."
Hmmm. I'm going to try this on digital anyway. I promise I'll come back later and do it for real on pen. >.
Would the Steadler double-ended fibre-tip pen work? (thin end is "0.5 - 0.8mm") I also have a Paper Mate Ultra-Fine felt tip pen (0.4mm), and a Studio Fineline marker (0.4mm). Those are just what I currently own. I can go out and buy others but as you say fine liners can get expensive.
Out of the ones you listed, the Paper Mate and Studio Fineline are both fineliners, and sit within the 0.4mm-0.6mm range that is appropriate for the course, so you should be okay to use those when getting started.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you.
I am planning on going through this course again as I have failed in the past and recently been wanting to get back on track. I was thinking this time I would practice with both digital and ink side by side since I want to primarily use digital for my own projects. I am still planning on doing all of these lessons with ink, but would I get something out of doing the lessons in digital as well or do you think that i would be better of trying to find a course for specifically digital especially considering I wont get feedback on my digital stuff (if you know a good one please tell me). Would it even be productive to practice both side by side or should i put my focus on the ink for now since I do have a limited time to draw in a week and the time spent doing digital would cut into time with ink. Also since I am asking so many questions I might as well ask how I should go about learning animation. My reason for why I want to learn art is primarily to learn animation. When am I "ready" to begin learning animation and how much time should I spend again considering I only have so much time in a week to draw.
The thing to keep in mind is that Drawabox isn't here to teach you the use of any tools - it's to teach you the concepts that underly drawing itself. Confident markmaking, developing your 3D spatial reasoning skills, etc. Doing the course *once* in ink is going to work towards that goal efficiently. Doing it twice simultaneously with two different toolsets will have some benefit in terms of developing your comfort with digital tools, but it's going to result in a *lot* of effort and time being wasted on things that simply reiterate that core focus of the course, but in a less optimal fashion. As I mention in the 50% rule video, I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in working digitally to bust straight into digital tools for their play-time. Meaning, just using it and getting accustomed to it that way. If you have time to sneak in some sort of a digital-focused course, then that's great too in order to familiarize yourself with the tools(although remember that it goes into the same "study" 50% as your drawabox lessons, and needs to be matched with an equal measure of play). But for most students, just getting used to using the tools to play helps a great deal.
@@Uncomfortable thank you for answering so quickly :) that seems reasonable
About the pen, is it really that bad if I do the exercices with a 1mm or more ? I'm from France and I don't have budget now to buy a bunch of 0.4-0.5mm so I was wondering about that. Is it okay if I use a ballpoint pen instead of a felt pen for all the lessons ?
At the end of the day, there are two things I will never tell a student - A. that they must adhere to these restrictions regardless of any external factors, and B. that deviating from these recommendations will have no cost of its own, in terms of the effectiveness of the exercise/course. It's not so black and white. At the end of the day, the information I have provided in this video explains the why behind the recommendations, so that you can ultimately make the choice for yourself, based on your own considerations - budget, availability around you, etc. The only case where they are firm restrictions is when students opt to use the official critiques, because then it does indeed become important to have students doing what they can to avoid pitfalls that will ultimately increase our workload. So, I have no clear answer for you. Only you know your circumstance, only you know what are hard limits and what you might be able to do that might be unpleasant, but still doable, in order to get as much as you can out of this resource.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you for your answer and sorry to make you repeat yourself.
Was just gonna ask, is a Stabilo fin 0,4 okay to use for paid review? All other options are so expensive in my country.
As mentioned in the video, anything between the 0.4-0.6mm range is acceptable, so you'd be at the edge of that range but it is still fine to use.
What would you say is the painting equivallent of ink? Like, what is the best medium of painting when it comes to learn? Maybe is oil Paint?
Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the range of painting media out there to answer this question.
Once we finish the drawabox course, when do you reccommend getting started with painting ? like with acrylic colours ? for begginers
As soon as you decide you're interested. The 50% rule is an excellent opportunity to start messing around with other media.
@@Uncomfortable Wow ! I never expected a reply ! Thanks a lot for your advice.
Digital is not always about speed, it depends on the workflow you choose. Simple.
Glad I watched this and read the comments first. Thanks but no thanks. Unsubscribing and removing myself from the equation. I know myself better than you or others do.
I was super into this, but as with most art things, my aphasia (the inability to make pictures in your mind) is giving me second thoughts. When I do art, the eraser is my best friend. Is the course still applicable to me?
I believe what you're referring to is aphantasia, rather than aphasia. Aphasia has more to do with verbal and language skills. As to aphantasia, you really have nothing to worry about, because I too have it - I actually made a video about it for Proko's channel, which you can find here: kzhead.info/sun/f7ugiLewr3egmqs/bejne.html
@@Uncomfortable yeah, autocorrect is not the kindest to me, thanks for the resources though. have a nice day
So when I go about studying anatomy, I should also do in paper and ink instead of digital?
Not at all. As explained in this video, we recommend the use of specific tools because they align with what this specific course is teaching, and reinforce those concepts very effectively. That does not mean that they're the best tools for learning - just that we believe they're the best tools for learning what we're teaching here. Personally, I do not feel that ink is particularly beneficial for learning things related to the figure - I'd sooner use pencil for that.
How often will you update these videos?
Hard to say - there's no specific schedule, and there are a lot of variables that impact production time, not least of which the critiques that take up most of my week. We are updating the videos as quickly as we reasonably can though. The next ones to be updated will be the Lesson 1 boxes section.
Have you taken any psychology courses in the past that influenced the construction of your course? I've been seeing some really nice insights within the structure of this course, like work & play (which is something to which I think the 50% rule as a term could be renamed), taking breaks as a means of learning, using multiple formats of learning (text, video), etc.
While I haven't studied psychology, iterating on this course has involved a lot of observation of my students and how they engage with both the Drawabox material and learning in general - with every one of the thousands of homework submissions I've critiqued over the last eight years. I think a lot of these concepts arise somewhat naturally when you look at what quagmires students tend to find themselves in, whether it's grinding mindlessly, convincing themselves that they are innately unsuited, or attempting to rely too much on memory rather than going back and revisiting material.
gawdam everytime i watch this video ,it makes me wanna cry.this stuff is way too expensive. I am gonna stick with my ballpoint pens😭😭
Is the Pilot Hi-Tecpoint V5, a rollerball pen, fine for usage?
That would not be the same as the fineliners we recommend. You can use those for Lesson 1 and the box challenge (and of course if you're not submitting for paid official critique, everything is just a recommendation and not a requirement), but I would still recommend working on getting fineliners and swapping to them as soon as you are able.
@@Uncomfortable Okay, thank you!
"learning is not about being fast" I'm watching this video in double speed
im doing this super casual on a whim probably wont last long so ig it doesnt matter
I know this is not the video to ask, but I still do it because it is the most recent one, when you say that the 50/50 rule will allow you to develop skills that sooner or later you will have to develop, which skills are you referring to exactly?
I actually do answer questions on all my videos, even ones that are years old. As to your question, it's the more general skills involved in taking the technical skills you've developed and applying them towards a purpose. It's one thing to simply construct a specific object from reference, but to actually leverage those capabilities towards creating something new of your own - that's its own separate skill, and requires its own experience and time to develop. It's very easy for students to simply ignore this, to focus entirely on the hand-holding a course offers, and then when they come out the other side, to struggle in applying what they've learned outside of the bubble in which it was originally presented.
@@Uncomfortable so would you say that's it's okay to use the techniques introduced in drawabox they occasionally slip into my drawing process albeit with some anomalies present
@@yygamma3905 You don't need to (and shouldn't be) actively *avoiding* applying the things you've learned in this course. Rather, you simply needn't purposely and consciously try to apply them directly. The expectation is that as you get further through the course, more and more of these things will naturally show up in how you draw your own stuff without having to think about it.
The STABILO Point 88 it's a good option? In my country it's a cheap and accessible pen, but I don't know if his nib will last enough or had a good flow
It'll work, and a lot of students certainly use it because it's available across a fairly wide swipe of the world and tends to be quite cheap as you noted, but it is definitely a more fragile pen. Now that's actually not as much of a problem earlier on, because you're likely to ruin a few regardless of how resilient the pen nib (beginners tend to press pretty hard and improve their pressure control with practice and mileage, as with anything else), so if those pens happen to be quite cheap it means you're spending less overall. But once your pressure control becomes decent, you'll be able to get far more longevity out of something like a Staedtler Pigment Liner. So that's another way of thinking about it - right now you're not necessarily in a position to take advantage of what makes some of those other pen brands better, so it doesn't hurt to get started with these cheaper options.
@@Uncomfortable Tks! ❤️❤️❤️🇧🇷
Is it fine to do digital for accessibility reasons ?? 😭 I’m dyspraxic so I can’t control the pressure on my pen , so I produce hard lines on paper , which I can’t erase (because I also have difficulty controlling the erased ) ( which is why I do digital , because opacity and undo is an absolute lifesaver )
Ultimately we frame everything we suggest as recommendations, because all we can reasonably do is explain the reasoning as to why we recommend certain things, and allow students to decide how closely they can hold to those recommendations in their own given situations. The only cases where they become hard requirements is in regards to the paid official critiques we offer, where ensuring students adhere to specific approaches helps cut down on our workload and allows us to provide that service as cheaply as possible. When it comes to the free community feedback from other students, they remain recommendations. And of course, as the course material is freely available without barriers, students can of course use the information in whatever way they choose. That said, if you find yourself in a position where you're having to set aside a number of our recommendations, eventually you'll come to a point where it may make more sense to find a course that is designed to be taken in a manner more in line with what you are able to do - but that too ultimately falls to your own discretion.
What about fountain pen? Trying to reduce disposable stuff.
That is covered here in the written material: drawabox.com/lesson/0/4/whatabout - be sure to go through both the videos and the written content when going through this course.
Thank you, I’ve just discovered Drawabox so still finding my way around. I think I’ll be ok with fountain pen after reading that because I already use it a lot.
What is the philosophy behind avoiding a loose under drawing with a clean-up pass?
Same principle as why tracing isn't terribly effective practice for learning to think in 3D space (as this course specifically seeks to address). When you try and draw over your sketch to clean it up, you focus on how that line sits on the flat page, *not* as an edge existing in three dimensions. It keeps us locked in the prison of thinking of what we draw as simply lines on a flat page. Someone who has developed their spatial reasoning skills a good deal will be able to understand how to approach that clean-up pass in a manner that is not akin to tracing, but that is precisely the skill we aim to develop in the course. There are some challenges you face head on and punch through by simply attacking it over and over. There are other challenges you circumvent by learning another skill adjacent to it, because attacking it head-on is less effective. In my - admittedly anecdotal, but considerable experience - this is the latter. Not doing it now will help you develop the skills to be able to do it better, more quickly.
What’s next in line to the fine liners? I really do not have them
Fountain pens (though they are harder to use) and ballpoint pens as explained on the video
Finally which pen did you use ? I d'ont have a bunch of fine liners too and I found them quite expensive.
@@Lingatsu i found really cheap fineliners online, it hasn’t arrived yet
@@ShaneRoseARamos Is it possible to know which one and from which website please ?
That was my issue... I didn't follow the rules just like the KZheadr where I recently commented... Thank you for the I call it "reality check" ^^
I have a fineliner pen, lucky me! Whether it's still good or not remains to be seen...
I ordered pens but I think there is something wrong with the shipment as there is no progress on the tracking number.
KZhead definitely isn't a good support platform - I recommend in the future either responding to the confirmation email you would have received from us initially, or sending an email to pens@drawabox.com as noted on the pen store page for any future concerns. That said, I believe the issue is delays coming off the Christmas season. Jordan, the one who handles the pen purchases and distribution, has been finding the post office drop off box full several days in a row, so he hasn't been able to drop off the most recent orders. We apologize for the inconvenience, but it will be resolved as soon as USPS gets back to normal.
Can I send for official critique using ballpoint pen in lesson 1?
Yup, I believe I mention it in this video, and in the homework sections of Lesson 1 - ballpoint is okay for Lesson 1 and the box challenge, with the assumption that you're working on getting your hands on fineliners instead.
Considering how different it feels to draw digitally and physically, doesn't it make sense to start digitally right away? So you don't have to relearn drawing ellipses and lines, because of how different it feels on a screen
Every medium we use is going to have its own particular considerations - from the texture of the surface upon which we're drawing and how the tool itself moves across it, to particular hangups and considerations of the medium itself (like how we need to dab a ballpoint pen on a wad of tissue periodically to avoid globs of ink on our drawings, or dealing with the particular driver issues or software hiccups with digital tools). Those issues exist, but they are not the issue we're tackling here. Regardless of what medium you're using, you're still working with the same arm in terms of the motions we create to draw a given stroke, you're still working with the same brain and how it perceives and understands the things we draw, either as flat marks on a page or canvas, or edges existing in three dimensions. That's what this course focuses on - the tools you have no choice but to use, regardless of whether you're drawing digitally, in ink, with graphite, or whatever else. The tools we recommend for this purpose are the ones that specifically reflect and reinforce the habits and mindset that help students develop in these areas most effectively. And as explained in the video, we've generally found that digital tools are not as effective in developing one's habits and mindsets in a way that is most useful in the long run. That's not to say digital tools aren't useful and incredibly valuable - I'm still almost excusively a digital artist when it comes to my professional work. But it is not something I would recommend for this specific purpose.
Ironically, I set the speed of this video to 1.5 and then felt guilty when he started talking about instant gratification. XD
What do you think about easels?
A little later in Lesson 1 (specifically on its second page), we talk about how we hold our pens, and the reason why different tools employ different grips. Easels are similar - they're very useful in certain contexts, when working with certain tools, but for the purposes of this course an easel would not be beneficial, since we're using pens whose primary variance comes from pressure control. Graphite, charcoal, and paint to name a few examples tend to benefit more from an overhand grip, which allows for more active use of their different surfaces to make different kinds of marks, and an easel goes hand-in-hand with that. For what we're doing here, drafting tables (which can be inclined to a much more modest degree) would be more suitable, although most students will still be working with regular flat desks, and that's fine too, as noted towards the end of the video.
@@Uncomfortable I'm looking for justification for learning sketching the traditional way (on an easel)? That was how I learned when I was a teenager (only for a few years then I abandoned drawing, which is one of my biggest regrets). Now I want to teach my kid drawing/sketching (your lessons are great) and also pick up drawing myself. I wonder if we need easels. I even bought wood trying to make easels for me and my son. I love your lessons. The ability to see everything in basic geometric shapes and understand spatial reasoning is key.
@@brendonzhang151 I'm not sure if you were just explaining the reasoning behind your question, or asking again (since you said "I wonder if we need easels"). Just in case my first answer wasn't clear, no you wouldn't be using an easel for this course. There's a helpful beginner's shopping list available in the written material here which may help: drawabox.com/lesson/0/4/shoppinglist
Can we use marker of 0.5 mm also
As I've never seen a 0.5mm marker (they're usually considerably thicker), I can't really make that call without seeing a picture of the kind of tool you're describing.
You do what works for you. I just can't stand the feeling of paper.
I don't really get why we need to use a fineliner considering it's the approach that you are concerned about. If my mindset is right from the get go and I adhere to your rules, wouldn't that make it alright to use a ballpoint pen?
I’m allergic to most paper products. What should I do?
Lots of people have their own circumstances - medical conditions, disabilities, or allergies in your case - that may put certain recommendations of this course out of your reach. For those, it's up to the student (who would have a far better understanding of their limitations and hurdles) to take these recommendations and filter them through what they know of their own conditions. Some things to think about would be whether a glove might be enough to avoid allergic reactions (there are "artist gloves" which basically have the thumb, index, middle fingers uncovered, and instead cover the ring/pinky fingers and the side of the hand). If that's not a workable solution however, you might end up having to do the exercises digitally. While this would preclude you from submitting for paid official critique, as it becomes logistically unfeasible for us to accept those homework submissions, you would still be able to submit for community feedback. That said, I would recommend mentioning that you can't do it on paper for medical reasons, as some members of the community are less inclined to critique work that doesn't adhere to the recommendations without a reason for it.
Is it normal that I can't order the drawabox pens ? Paypal give me an error. I'm from France.
What error is it giving you?
@@Uncomfortable When I click on the link it redirect me on PayPal, it's loading then i have the message ''an error as occured. try again.'' and it redirect me on drawabox. Maybe it's because I have a french PayPal ?
@@Lingatsu People have been able to purchase the pens from a variety of different countries around the world, so I don't suspect that's the issue. Given such a vague error, my first course of action would usually be to clear my browser cache, and even try using a different browser or incognito mode.
@@Uncomfortable I tried with my phone and in incognito mode as suggested but it's the same. Maybe something with my paypal account. It's fine, it was more for supporting the lesson than the fineliners. I see you have a patreon so I'll try that when I want to support the course !
Wait what do you mean by digital is focused on being faster? I dont think I understand.
Sorry if this is being asked alot, but what happened to the proccess of updating the videos?
It's still progressing, though very slowly. Ultimately I can only squeeze the work in between critiques, which take the bulk of my time. It's a bit of a catch-22, because as I progress through more of the overhaul, I'll be able to pass more of the critiques onto teaching assistants. For now however, I do have to handle the bulk of them myself, and they are very time consuming. On top of that, for my own health I've forced myself to take more regular days off (whereas previously I'd just work continuously, not taking weekends, etc. and balancing a full time job along with it all). I have been working on Drawabox full time for a while now, which allowed me to move forward with the overhaul, but ultimately things keep getting in the way (apartment flooding, family commitments that required me to leave town for months at a time, etc.) Unfortunately that trend is going to continue - I recently mentioned on twitter that some changes to Patreon are going to result in a significant drop in revenue - we'll have a better idea of the extent to that drop in November, but I've already planned to take a salary cut and supplement by taking a part-time contract from my old job... which as you can imagine, will just hurt the overhaul progress further. To try and ease on that front, I'm going to be halting my web comic upon the completion of the current chapter as well. We'll keep moving forwards (just finished recording the audio for the next 3 videos), but I have no guarantees and no consistent schedule we can hold to.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you for the answer. Im glad to hear work is still being put into it, and glad to hear youre taking regular time off. I am super grateful for this course, so im sad to hear about the cut in revenue, ill likely pledge alittle more than necessary when i finish lesson 2. thank you for doing what you can on this course.
I think an important point is missed with what limits digital drawing: Analog is faster and more accurate in terms of the actual mark-making. It has to be! Digital tools use lot of layers of emulation to accomplish what ink and paper has had 1000+ years to refine. There's a limited refresh rate, limited resolution, input buffers, aliased input, stabilization, screen parallax, and any number of things you just don't know about getting in the way of making the output match what you drew - and you have no control over most of them. As a *drawing* experience, digital is barely acceptable, even with the very best hardware and software available. The things that are good about digital are almost all independent of drawing, and all about production and composition: undo, selection-based edits, layers, vector lines, etc. They allow you to play with the design of the image, and even to automate the technical foundations of constructive drawing by letting you work with 3D models, for example. The point of learning all of this stuff when the computer can automate it is because it lets you manipulate more on the page, directly, without hours of configuration to get a perfect result. The phrase "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" applies here. A well-executed ink drawing is smooth start to finish, because nothing gets in the way.
Pretty quickly your assessment there goes from evaluating digital media in the context of learning, although you definitely go much farther than I would. I think your critique in regards to it being barely acceptable is very much a matter of personal experience and preference. My choice to focus on its role in learning is a specific one. I am myself a digital artist, and in the decades I've spent drawing digitally, I can say I genuinely enjoy it. There is a lot I enjoy about drawing traditionally as well, but I do find engaging with digital tools, even in the absence of all of the great features you listed (when painting digitally for the fun of it I'll often just work on a single layer, with a simple brush, and explore what falls there). So I'm definitely not here to critique it as a whole. While I'm eager to make more time to play with graphite and charcoal, as well as oil paints and gouache, it is by no means because I feel that anything is lacking when I work digitally. But then, that's just me - and even amongst those who do work digitally, many will critique Photoshop as a drawing tool in comparison to other software, preferring the alternatives, but even there I find myself deeply attached to Photoshop.
@@Uncomfortable My critique is grounded simply on the fact that if we are talking about freehand line quality - and for many people, the *experience* of freehand is an intrinsically appealing part of drawing, vs bringing out rulers and guides to attain technical accuracy - what matters to that experience and is most enabling to expression is moment-to-moment control and feedback. My background is primarily in video game development, from a software/programming perspective. And this is something well-understood among developers as well as proficient gamers: if we're engaging with those skills of hand-eye coordination, latency matters, resolution matters. It affects measured satisfaction in surveys, and it affects performance in tests of skills. For getting a satisfying *result*, it doesn't matter how it was made. And you can get the result using digital tools - I do that too, I go wild with the stuff, given the opportunity. But a result is not an experience! That is what is barely acceptable about it: drawing digitally necessitates some disengagement from drawing's primary concepts, in order to get all the good that comes with it. If you change your brush or paper digitally, your stylus does not change weight or friction. It remains exactly the same, yet the marks become different. And you can zoom in and out and scroll to have a huge or even infinite canvas in some programs, but then you lose track of the scale of everything. This is all pretty magical but it changes the experience and moves it away from direct 1:1 connection - and again, we're really looking at freehand drawing vs just about everything else one could do to make an image. There are plenty of examples of art that doesn't require that particular skill, but every one of them is also slightly more indirect. Given that DAB focuses on freehand skills throughout most of the lessons, it would make sense to review equipment choice with an eye not just to "this way is better for learning" but to define an ideal-conditions freehand experience - on principle. And then to explain everything else in terms of compromises and trade-offs. Everyone can see that digital's results are good. But the results are good not because the tool is universally better, but because it's automatically cleaning up things, in all the ways I've listed. Maybe I'm more philosophical than necessary about this. But I think it's important to highlight principles. In the back of my mind I have a thought of "what's the digital contrary to everything DAB teaches" - a course that maximally exploits software tools to get illustrative results. Part of that course would involve explaining this trade-off: that the more deeply you engage with digital and use it to automate your work, the more you turn into a programmer. And being a programmer oftentimes isn't the fast path to the result, that in industry it's more common to automate towards increased quality first, because the alternative is "wrong results infinitely fast".
@@JH-pe3ro It appears we come from the same field (I worked in game development, as a game programmer, for many years prior to finally shifting to running Drawabox full-time in 2020). Much of what you said there at the beginning, I agree with. My only point was that the *experience* of a medium is, despite being built upon many objective facts (like response times and latency, the distance between the point of the stylus to the actual stroke itself, etc) is still subjective in that how much those elements may bother us can vary drastically from person to person. And that my use of digital tools for many years has made many of the usual complaints people have entirely unnoticeable to me. When I draw digitally, the experience feels natural to me. That said, I still don't think it's really Drawabox's place to sway students one way or the other when it comes to what they choose to use to draw outside of the course. We may teach a great deal about freehanding linework, but as discussed earlier in Lesson 0, our goals are very clear. To help students develop the control of their arm to make the marks they desire (and even that is towards the interest of specifically helping them develop their spatial reasoning skills through the later exercises, which is the true focus of the course). What a student chooses to draw with outside of the course has no bearing on that, and so my disagreement with the whole "digital = barely acceptable" argument is itself irrelevant in the face of the goals of this course. Going beyond the scope of the course (and forgive me for going on a bit of a wandering digression), I will say this - tools are tools. It's very easy to fall into the trap of deciding, "I want to use this tool" and fashioning what it is you wish to produce around the tool itself. It reminds me of something from a lecture one of my first year professors gave - if you choose your tools first, then whatever it is you produce will be derivative of the options that tool provides. Instead, it is better to determine what it is one wishes to create first, then find the right tools for the job. That advice applies just as well to the production of artwork as it does in the programming/game development/interactive multimedia context in which it was presented. You use the tools that suit what it is you wish to create best - even if that means relying on automation, photobashing, digital tools, and more. It is also why the current fears over AI are likely unfounded - there are plenty of places where AI would indeed fit comfortably into the toolbelt of an illustrator or concept artist to bring their visions to life. It's very common for people to draw a clear distinction between one who programs and one who creates pictures (I was going to go with programmer vs. artist but in truth I think the term 'artist' says nothing about one does, and lumps fine artists with commercial artists like illustrators, concept artists, industrial/product designers, etc. - I myself belong to the latter group, so that which I produce generally has some goal to pursue whether it's set out by me or by a client/art director). My experience, existing in both areas simultaneously, has given me a different view of the dichotomy. Both fall under problem solving. Where a programmer identifies the inputs they're getting, the outputs they must translate them to, and the tools they have at their disposal to make that translation - from basic logical structures to languages to libraries to frameworks to plugins and more - their job is to identify the right combination of what they have access to that will solve the problem as required. It's unlikely anyone will argue with that, it's not exactly a new way of framing what a programmer does. But when an illustrator, a concept artist, a graphic designer, etc. is given a brief, it is much the same kind of process. We search amongst the visual library, the motifs, the common conventions and symbolisms of the culture in which we're operating, the mediums we might work in, all to achieve a desired result. That result might be to convey information, to illicit an emotional response, to tell a story, or to flesh out an idea. This is problem solving as well. It's still super common for people to put the cart before the horse, doing exactly what my professor warned against - to pick their tools first, and shoehorn the problem into fitting that mold. One common example of this is the "classic photobashed look" where all the different photos fail to blend in and create a cohesive image. Of course, if one's goal is to convey information about a design to a 3D modeler, then that falls entirely within the requirements it was produced to meet. But if it's carried over into illustration, and the time is not taken to remedy this lack of cohesion, it's unlikely for that to be intentional, but rather the tool taking control and making the decisions instead of the human mind behind it all. This can make it very easy to regard everything such a tool might offer to be bad - to view these things in a strict black and white. But if seen through the lens of a problem solver, would it not be unwise to leave the perfect tool for a job unused? But of course - none of that pertains to this course's established goals. Drawabox is here to help introduce students to the core fundamentals of drawing. What they do with that information and where they intend to apply it is not for me to judge.
good
I can see the dislikes because of an extension. Can't believe these people, this stuff is pretty reasonable. I mean I'll admit I myself don't exactly get why digital is worse here but I also never used such tools. Idk, imo devices are all different. In both hardware and software. This course is about universality, fundamentals
i disagree at least in part. you wouldn't tell a mechanic to go learn IT to do and appreciate their job. bad example, i guess, but the point remains. You should practice with the tool that you want to use. pen and paper can compliment, but if your goal is to be a digital artist, you should spend the majority of your time with the tool you are going to use. what is really a concern is probably accessibility. pen and paper is easy to bring with you. you can pump out more practice. and drawing more often can lead to more learning.
please fixate this PSA, it'll help save people money. FYI. you can easily refill fineliners, so buy a nice one, some ink and a pipet or syringe and you can take off the tip of the fineliner to open up a reservoir to drop the ink into, theres a bunch of videos you can look up for reference.
I'll have to look into this further myself when I have a chance. I took a quick search for now, although as of right now I'm mainly seeing approaches that utilize a razor blade to pull the tip off, which I'm hesitant to blanket recommend (since it can be very dangerous, especially when working on very small elements like that). There are some tools that may be better replacements for that, though I've honestly cut myself on those kinds of things too... But either way, I'll look into it more closely when I have a chance.
Thx for the info!
@@Uncomfortable i think thats more to do with proper cutting technique, theres no harm in taking of a cap if you cut away from yourself. In fact the knife is a dumb tool since you only need to take it off and any thin tool will work, say a metal eraser or a butter knife to slowly pry it. These pens, even low cost are at least 3 euros, i personally would find it a shame and frankly hypocritical if you wouldnt recommend cutting cost on the biggest limiting factor for many people entering this course over the possibility that people might use a knife incompetently.
I dont draw digital to draw faster tho... I Just like having more options when drawing like when I draw a portrait I NEEED liquify lmao
I'm not going to go too much into this, as the video presents my reasoning fairly clearly. What I did want to point out however is that you appear to be mixing two separate things. There's two overarching mindsets we have when drawing. There's the mindset of learning, where we're actively trying to improve our skills and push the boundaries of what we can do, and there's the mindset of performing/producing, where we're actually trying to produce work for a purpose. Maybe for a portfolio piece, a client, or some other situation where that piece is meant not to improve our skills, but rather to demonstrate what we're currently capable of. When producing/performing, it helps a lot to use whatever tools you have at your disposal. Liquify, for example, as well as 3D blockouts, photo bashing, etc. - basically anything that'll help you achieve your goal result more consistently and more quickly, *especially* when it's something you're paid to do (as time is money). But these same tools can be great hindrances when *learning*, because they're crutches that do the work for us. We don't learn by *avoiding* the stuff we find difficult - we learn by facing it head on. So these tools, while extremely useful in one context, shield us from everything we *need* to face in order to improve and learn. That in turn helps inform how we use those tools when "performing", and ultimately create better results more in line with our intent, and to do so more quickly and efficiently.
@@UncomfortableIc that makes a lot of sense then, I mean the 50/50 rule lets me still draw digitaly 50% of the time so its not as if ive to go full on traditional, ty for clearifying
Are you still planning on updating these videos? It's been almost a year since this one came out.
Yes, although progress is slow. We have limited resources, and they are primarily focused on providing feedback for students' homework and managing the community.
@@Uncomfortable So youre a proffesional critiquer of art that doesnt do art. Gotcha.
@@brap97 Not really sure how you came to that conclusion, but I think you're making a few significant logical leaps there.
@@Uncomfortable name the MOST significant ones, I cant figure it out, Im pea brained.
@@brap97 Mainly the fact that I don't "do art" - which I generally assume to mean that I supposedly don't use the skills I teach. Can you explain how you drew that conclusion?
Why is making a sketch first so looked down upon isnt sketching first a good thing so you know the line art will be good
Sorry I really don't follow the underlying logic here. The argument that no matter how you use electronic devices to draw it 's just worse simply because the device your draw on (or even other devices in the same broad category) can also run some (unrelated) tasks fast doesn't make sense to me. How is having access to (unrelated) software that can give instant gratification on the device you are drawing on really different from drawing or paper but having access to those software on a device in your pocket? Isn't drawing with ballpoint pens bad compared to quill pens by this logic simply because ballpoints are designed to make things faster? Is drawing with permanent markers on computers screens still as bad just because computers? Also, computers' purpose isn't making everything fast, it's making computation fast. That can be used to make something fast (or slow), but we don't want instant gratification because we have computers, we use computers to make things fast because we want instant gratification/efficiency. If someone wants instant gratification, I don't see how just using ink and paper would really change that.
Just to clarify, it's not that there's unrelated software adjacent to whatever you use to draw. I'm definitely going whole-hog here with the point you disagree with in your second paragraph - that computers are designed to make us faster and more efficient, and thus the very software we use to draw with share that same goal. Ultimately I can really only speak from my own experience, and what I've seen in my students, which is ultimately anecdotal, and thus subject to your disagreement. But, regardless, I have seen and experienced that students who do the work in ink are less prone to rushing, to the point that we *had* to disallow digital work when it comes to official critiques early on in order to offer feedback as cheaply as we do. It greatly lessened the prevalence of people who rushed through the work. I cannot say it eliminated it, but it did have a very noticeable impact. This video is my attempt at explaining why that ostensibly would be the case.
@@Uncomfortable I disagree with the idea that the entirety of computers is to make us faster. Speaking as a software engineer, to me a computer is just a tool (and software tools made with that tool). They often make us faster because we typically use tools to make our lives more convenient, but that's the result of how we choose to design and use our tools rather than the fundamental nature of the tools. Software can be made/used slow no matter how fast the computer is, and computers can be made fast or slow, too. I don't disagree with your recommendations. And I think making them because they have produced better results for your students is valid. I just disagree with your opinion on the nature of computers in your explanation of why that is the case.
@@andyhaochizhang but in this case specifically, the computer is a tool that’s used for drawing, one that’s efficient and bloated with features. Because of that, it hinders the learning process. If you can already draw efficiently without the features it provides, then you will be able to draw exponentially better and faster with them, which is the main goal
I dont get why its hard for people to understand why digital is not allowed here. Simple, digital features hinder and can distract us from improving. The course concentrates on Making decisions when we draw, the moment we make a mark. And digital can hidner in learning that fundamental due to its forgiving nature.
Exactly, uncomfortable is kinda dumb asf. Lmfao
I can't afford ink pen in my country it's so expensive so i will use ballpoint pen
We don't talk about drawabox lesson 8.....
Why uncomfortable cartoon don't have nose?
Doesn’t like the smell of ink
and here i am using a pencil out of necessity, because where i live nothing else is sold at reasonable prices, and the only store that even sells anything else is multiple hours drive away, so not worth it
2:28
So you don't learn how to draw ellipses freehand? That is what I want to learn how to do.
We use ellipse guides after Lesson 6, and we freehand our ellipses before then. The reason we switch to ellipse guides afterwards is because ellipses are something that take a long time to master, and I find it helps students focus on the specific areas those later lessons address without unnecessary distraction.
I am more than done "taking my time". It has been more than a year since I started learning, and it is not an enjoyable experience. I learn because I want to make good stuff, not because I WANT to learn, and if no improvement is shown after more than one fucking year dedicating myself to drawing atleast 1 hour a day, then the problem is in talent, not in the tools I use.
One year really isn't that much time for getting good at something, especially drawing since that usually takes years. There's a reason so many people stress enjoying the process, because if you don't you're not gonna get through the amount of time and effort it takes.
1 hour a day for just a year is very little time tho. one year is nothing in the long run. watch marco bucci's new video on this topic. also, don't learn in a bubble. join forums, groups etc and get feedback.
Practicing has aspects that are inherently not fun, its generally unimaginative and extremely repetitive but its necessary to develop your skills. The fun part is translating your ideas into art and these skills empower you to do that. If you don't enjoy creating art for the sake of art (like this course encourages you to do alongside practice), then being better at drawing won't change that. You can always try a different course/instructor if you feel like you're not getting anything out of this one but be aware the fundamentals taught here are basically universal
An hour a day for an entire year ain't gonan cut it, though. Ah yes, blame it on something rather than yourself
I really appreciate this free content, so much. However, damn, man. You like to reword things you say over and over and over and over. lol I feel like these 20 minute vids could be 10 minutes. haha
This ain't it. I could draw just as "mindlessly" and loose with a fineliner. You see artists like Karl Kopinski use this continuous line style. If anything digital art has been why I've learnt so quickly. I'm able to check 1 to 1 the reference. Also anything I draw on paper looks more correct than on the screen, I'm p sure that is has smth to do with the perspective of paper on a table but either way, much easier to critic and notice flaws. This is wrong. Misinformation. And will mislead people into thinking that digital art equates to 2012 youtuber animator drawings. Also I see people talking about layers and effects as if the computer does this for you? Draw and paint on one layer if your studying? Literal ignorance.
I think you are somewhat proving what uncomfortable is saying that softwares do in the long run, which is hopelessly obcess with how fast you do stuff. Not that you do it better or worse, but just that people become obcessed with learning as fast as they can, making it they rush learning, something that from my personal experience you should not do, not only in drawing.
@@vascopires2653 Learning fast isn't bad. I don't know where this notion comes from. It's based on nothing but the anecdotal association that fast means rushed. If you want to get good sooner rather than later, learn efficiently. This video doesn't apply to me but it rubbed me the wrong way because it's objectively wrong. It has nothing to do with digital art and everything to do with rushing the learning process. You could do that with any medium. You could take your sweet ass time and not learn anything because the quality of your study sessions are bad. There's so much more that goes into why people don't improve at art.
@@brianjwilson281 My issue aint that learning fast is good or bad, is that being obcessed with learning fast is bad, not only for your own art journey, but for your mental health too. It makes you create unrealistic expectations most of the time, and just lead to quitting in the long run, because you "dont see results" a lot of the time, even if you improve "efficiently". Hell, you can see a comment here saying how he was still bad after 1 year of training 1 hour everyday. But is that much time at all? Of course not, its that desire to be amazing super fast that kills a lot of artists.
@@vascopires2653 I see results majority of the time. I think obsessing over speed is pointless, true. Efficient learning has nothing to do with speed, it's about about mindfulness whilst studying. Fully thinking, no autopilot. Also depends on what your goals are. That guy spending 1 hour a day isn't trying to get better because he's not spending the time to do it. He should accept that it's a fun hobby for him and not compare himself to others who do put that work in. Plus you can't draw for people, if they decide to quit then so be it. If they have unrealistic expectations then maybe the video should address that and not try and use the medium of digital art as the scapegoat. I feel nothing but inspiration looking at insanely better artists than myself. It inspires healthy competition in me. If it doesn't for other people then they need to re-adjust the way they perceive their self worth and how they interact with the world. Which goes WAY beyond the scope of art. That's psychological issues they need to address. But you're right. Focusing on just speed is pointless or being good in one day is pointless. However, that has nothing to do with digital art or in which the speed you are learning which is the topic of this video, unless I have misinterpreted the video.
Hello Im beginner manga artist. I have question. Why listen to this man when his drawing skill weak?
the alcohol is starting to wear off now
“DRWABOX22” is wrong， missing a is“A”， using the code “DRAWABOX22”
Hahahaha this video got digitoids seething :D Tradchads GMI
why not both
It's really not a competition. Each tool has its strengths and weaknesses. No need to turn this into something to get tribalistic over.
goofy comment
@@EveraertCade chill bro
Bruh wtf Uncomfy is literally a **digital** concept artist. Watch the whole damn video :/