The Greatest Cheats in Racing History
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#AutoRacing #Cheating #SmokeyYunick
Smokey wasn't a cheat, he was a creative engineer who explored the gaps in the rule book. It wasn't his fault that the rulemakers weren't as smart as he was.
That is the name of the game in all serious competition and not only motor racing!
@@stewartw.9151 In fact in life rules are not made to be broken they are made to be used
Ain't cheating till your cought!,,,great legend
😅😂I actually want to reply the exact same thing
imagine that in the online gaming world. "he wasn't a cheater just exploring the gaps in the rule book".
There’s a story about a driver who complained to the officials that another driver was cheating, an official asked “How do you know?” And he replied “Because I’m cheating every way I know how and I can’t catch him”.
It went, How do you know that they're cheating? Because were cheating and they beat us... It was Smokey Yunick....
@@WizzRacing That's why Lance Armstrong was treated with such suspicion in cycling. Over the years, many of his peers got caught doping, so how was he managing to beat them if he was clean, as he claimed to be? Was he superhuman? No, he just hadn't been caught.
@davidoffon If all of the top 10 cyclists are cheating (the are), none of them are.
@davidoffon Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his Tour de France titles after an investigation revealed that he was the key figure in a wide-ranging doping conspiracy.
@@ExternalInputs He was caught!
Smokey literally was a legend in his own lifetime, My favourite story was the car with golf ball sized dents all over the roof. NASCAR officials looked at the roof long and hard trying to decide if it was legal etc, but it was a smokescreen, the dents didn't do anything but it drew attention away from many other less than legal modifications.
@@GeorgiaRidgerunner That's not quite right, I believe after they shaved the dimples into the car they moved the clay shavings to the trunk so the weight would be equal. So the dimples did help, but not enough to equalize 800 pounds of clay
Those are the fun mods. All of a sudden a guy has a purple spoiler so he must know something, so next everyone has one 😂😂
@bangboats3557 Speaking of smokescreens... This is an adaptation of an Old Eastern World tale, told about the legendary figure Mulla Nasrudin. For a long time, Smokey was often traveling back and forth across the Canadian border. The Customs people would ask him his occupation. He'd reply, "I'm a smuggler," so they searched his car thoroughly, and found nothing. The same thing would happen every time he'd make the crossing, and it went on for decades. After he retired, he was at a bar near the border, and a retired Customs official saw him, and couldn't help asking, "Hey, Smokey, all those years you told us you were a smuggler, and yet we never found anything. What gives? What were you smuggling, if anything?" Smokey replied, "Cars."
😁
I know a building contractor that purposely baits building inspector's like that.
I think it was Richard Petty, who was being interviewed by someone before a race, where the interviewer said something like, "I understand they found fifty violation on the car you're racing today," and Petty drawled, "Yeah, well, they didn't find the other fifty."
I fully died when he goes “They had to be from a factory, they never said who’s factory.”
so did your ghost type this?
I've pulled this card myself. I race in a series where the rules are the cars must be stock+roll cage. Rules don't say stock to make and model 😂
@@joeywirt7953 if it was me id throw a toyota century v12 stock in a car if they wanted stock lol
Our family are vendors, making a living selling goods at festivals. Some festivals stipulate the goods must be "hand-made"....AHH.... but you didn't say WHOSE hands made our goods!
@Sadra Keyhany Yeah, can’t do that. Go look up homogolation rules.
That second brake booster to assist with pad changes was absolutely brilliant.
I want it in my car now
I seem to remember they had a version of that in the Camaro prior, but too lazy to confirm it.
The story is bogus. There is absolutely no way you can suck the caliper pistons back in the calipers with a vacuum booster. The back of the master cylinder is air tight. All the booster does is assist in pedal pressure. Think about it.
I think you are correct, upon consideration. What backs the pads off the rotor is run out on the disc surface, which is why changing pads always involves using force on the caliper( hammer, clamp, etc.) to create the space to remove the pads..... This could be simulated by plumbing some of suction on the hydraulic side of the brakes, but a brake booster couldn't do it. Fun story, though. And, to be blunt, if it would have worked, Roger and Mark would have done it in a heartbeat!
@@hughbarton5743 I suppose someone could build a pump strong enough to suck the pistons in, but I wouldn't recommend it, and surely no engine vacuum could ever do it. I think they would have used the 4 piston calipers back then. Just wedge a screwdriver on each side of the rotor, push against the pads to shove the pistons back, pull the pin and pads, and slide some new pads in. I do it all the time on the C3 Vettes. It doesn't take much time.
I resent them being called "cheats" or "unfair advantage". These guys were innovators! Smokey was a MASTER of innovation. He belongs in the NASCAR Hall of Fame!
If the rules don't say you can't do it, it's not cheating.
To be fair, it isn't cheating if it isn't in the rulebook. It's only cheating after it's been put in the rulebook as illegal. So really, they aren't cheating. And the unfair advantage thing well, it's also not their fault they figured out ways to optimize their vehicles.
@@snyperwulffgaming9575 Look at tennis. It took many, many years before "oversize" rackets became common. They never "updated" the rule book to eliminate them.
Rule 666 "Thinking outside the box is not permitted due to whining competitors"
@@colbytherres8189 True statement!
I knew a guy who ran an illegal engine in dirt track stock car racing. This was way back when you could "claim" either of the 1st 2 finishers engine for 750 bucks. That was a design to keep the costs down so guys ran pretty stock. He deliberately ran an exhaust leak up at the manifold and 1 tappet too loose so it sounded like crap & nobody wanted to pay for an engine they thought was on it's way out.
That is pretty common around these small dirt tracks. Lot these track owners are not in it for being honest. Back in wild days in 70’s & 80’s was a very easy way laundry drug money. 200 seats & have an attendance of 987. And 179 in the infield.
H@@Houndini
Like a teacher of mine used to say "you're allowed to cheat all you want, you're just not allowed to be caught doing it".
My boss more or less says the same thing which still shocks me. “Do whatever you want just don’t let me catch you.” In my experience, a boss never says the quite part out loud.
That's one of things that breeds corruption 20 years later, but the states are set up for corruption anyway
You're not in trouble until you get caught.
My favorite cheat happened at the corporate level. NASCAR said teams could run aluminum manifolds, but not aluminum heads. So Ford designed the FE engine to where half the head became part of the manifold. They shaved something like 75 pounds off the nose of the car. Always struck me as a bizarre design until I learned the motivation behind it.
That's awesome, I've always been an FE fan and always wondered why they designed the heads and intake that way. Another reason why Ford is the best automaker.
No shit thats why they are like that? Always thought it seemed unnecessary but thats pretty cool
Smoke was crooked
Us OEM engineers ain't as dumb as many a mechanic seems to think.
Had a 428 scj in my 69 mach one and always wondered why it was designed that way
One more aspect of that Penske Trans Am fueling rig: the middle container contained dry ice. Gasoline apparently contracts at cold temperatures, so by "freeze-drying" the gasoline in those fueling rigs, they could increase the volume and put one or two more gallons in the car at pit stops. Beside that, the rig had condensation forming on the center tank, which "psyched out" the competing teams.
I noticed frost on the barrel in one of the photos shown in the video, was wondering why that was. Thanks for answering that, interesting hack!
Why would that pysch them out? Thanks in advance.
That was also tried in F1 and it's very dangerous as small temperature changes can cause the gasoline to expand and explode.
Did Smokey magically turn a 66 Chevelle into a 68 chevelle? Wow guy you sure do know your car stuff. I'm impressed! 🤣
Why did I have to scroll this far down to find a comment on this?
I made it that far into the video before I realized the guy is a dipshit. The story takes place in 1967 for Christ sake.
REMEMBER THIS GUY LOVES LIARS, I MEAN CHEATERS.
Motorsports is one of the few sports where cheating is almost expected if not winked at. "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying "
and honestly it makes it more fun. I mean if someone cheats in a ball sport, your options are steroids, ball inflation, or pay refs to make bad calls. Its boring, and doesn't have any trickery to it. In racing though, there's a million things to do, and probably 10 million more we haven't thought of, all to make it lighter, or speed up maintenance, or make more power, all through either clever bending of the rules (looking at lancia in 1983), or disguising all the hacks to avoid getting caught (like the lead helmet at the nascar weigh in). Either way, it makes for a more entertaining race. If ya didn't cheat ya didn't win
@@runeshark22 motosports is almost pure in its design. Age, sex, race, disability make no difference. Anyone can give it a real try. Even drugs won't help a driver. Its about time and money in preparation to compete, More of both is better and not discouraged. Winners are rarely disputed and human judges aren't needed. Technology always pushes motorsports forward... its unrelenting.
@@michaelmccarthy4615 i dunno dude, drugs might help. go to lemans with an old school bull hauler's toothpick, he's run that race back to back with laser focus. But yes i agree, it all comes down to human ability, innovation, and ingenuity judged by a totally objective mediator. Nobody is lookin at the recordings to see who wins an nhra event
@@runeshark22 im not sure how drugs can help with focus, concentration, reflexes, or fine motor skills to operate controls, and pedals accurately. Drugs would seem counterintuitive to the skill sets needed to operate a machine. Unless there are newer wild drugs !! ;)
Do they test NASCAR drivers for drugs before or after a race ?? Do they really need to like other sports? Its the machine cheating, not the driver.
Smokey wasn’t a “cheater” he was a “defensive cheater” he only cheated to keep up with every one else’s cheating also everyone cheated and just bribed the inspector so the inspectors all hated him because he never paid them he was just to good at it and he was very into his fuel
"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying"
@@TheMoirLabel Or winning!
@@AZBEEMR Or even competing when you think about it.
@@TheMoirLabel well said joe biden well said 😂
I learnt it from a podcast past gas podcast it’s donut media podcast I am a huge fan heard them all and watch the channel both great
There was a rule forbidding "port grinding" of cylinder heads. So he built a pump to circulate a slurry of abrasive through the ports and valve pockets in the head, and left it running overnight. Next morning he found it was so effective it had eroded a hole in the head so he had to start over. The technique is still used to this day as a method of flowing intake tracts.
EXTRUDE HONE STILL DOES IT TO THIS DAY.
Smokey driving off in anger in the Chevelle after just having the fuel tank taken off the car is just fucking hilarious.
Half of the Nascar rulebook, was written because of Smokey Yunick, the other half was written, because of Junior Johnson..
Probably not far off
And moonshine running laws too
Also you can't forget Ray Everham's "T-rex". A car so good NASCAR changed the rules to ban it as soon as the race ended
@@tylercady3985 you know Smokey and Ray where good buddies I have a suspicion that there was a bit of Smokey in that car and if not definitely inspiration
@@mitchyman935 inspiration probably. I saw a video on it that said that car was the brainchild of all of Hendrick's engineers combined, then Ray just fine tuned it to get the speed
"Ain't no rule saying dogs can't drive!" Air Bud: NASCAR
But instead they did space ships........
"ain't nothing illegal till you get caught...."
Movie idea ?
ouch i hate, 🐶 doing x era.
Have they done that yet?
The 20ft fuel device reminds me of a report I modeled in university where I had to use Bernoulli's Equation and a model I built to verify that the exit velocity of a fluid was a function of the height itself. I only had a height difference of just over a foot but it was enough to get me an extra .5kg / s of water flowing out. I can only imagine what the flow rate of the gasoline must've been, kudos to the team for using physics to their advantage
if the numbers he said were accurate (he said 3.5 seconds and 30 gallons) then it would be about 8.57 gallons per second
I worked for a large corporation that makes large "things" shall we say, and there are tons of engineers involved. Most people see engineering as a stodgy and boring career but when you work in a place where situations are constantly having to have an engineering solution, it gets very interesting, it really does.
Many years ago when I was on a pit crew at Mesa Marin we had a crew chief that loved finding holes in the rules. One rule limited the amount of lead that could be used in the car for weight distribution. Lead. Nobody said anything about steel. The fuel cell was a 20 gallon cell with a 15 gallon bladder and a 2" thick slab of steel in the bottom of the cell, under the blader. No body ever figured out how we got our front/rear weights so good. They were looking for extra lead. We could tell them in all truth. Nope, there's no extra lead in there. A couple of roll cage "tubes" on the left side weren't tubes. Solid round bar.
"Interpreting the rules"
Just like tom brady.
Shrewding intensifies
Tomato tah-mah-toe
The WRC Ford Focus "Boost Bumper" has to be included on this list!
I knew this was going to be good! You should do a piece on Smokey Yunick's Fiero.
That acid dipped story was told by Sam Posey in relation to his Dodge.The inspector stopped for a chat with the mechanic after inspection and leaned on the roof which dented. He immediately failed the car and so they went to the local dealer and cut the roof off a new car and welded it to the racecar.
Acid dipping was a common thing for NHRA door slammer cars. That might be where they got the idea. I helped on a 69 Mustang convertible that was dipped. The convertible was chosen because in the early '70s, NHRA allowed full cages in convertibles-for safety. It was also a hidden back-half car, way before that was common. Had 16" wide slicks also. That car was evidently one of two convertibles built in '69 that had a 428 Cobra Jet/4 speed in it. It held a national record for a while. It was later converted back to stock by someone and then sold at Barrett Jackson for a LOT of money, about 10-15 years ago.Drag racing back then was a lot of fun. Too much money came into the sport and turned it into a business. That's a shame. It was fun while it lasted though!
When they diped it in acid to lose weight didn’t they regain it with a roll cage
My grandpa raced legend cars when I was a kid I remember sitting with him one afternoon as he was scrolling the new rule book getting ready for the season and he jumped off his recliner and told me to come help him in the shop, the rule book stated the radiator needed to be mounted in front of the engine but never said the car actually needed a radiator. So grandpa drilled the frame rail and welded a bung essentially turning his the chassis/roll cage into the radiator. First test he said the car was running 20 degrees cooler than normal plus the power was up with all the fresh air coming in with a hot radiator blocking it. There was rule stating how large the radiator could be the next year 😂
That’s badass
If there’s no rule it can’t be cheating
@@marksimpson2689 if there's no rule against it it's not cheating and since they can't change the rules in the middle of the race I guess they have to wait to reprint the book until next year!!!
…what. That would heat soak the chassis and roll cage and then overheat. There’s no efficient way to get rid of the heat. Sure, it would take some time, but it wouldn’t work forever. Otherwise this would be implemented a lot I bet.
@@SeptemberWhite exactly, unless it’s Production Saloons in NZ speedway as it says in the rules if something isn’t mentioned it’s not allowed
One unique thing Smokey did when he was racing the Hudson Hornet, was to change the rotation of the engine and power train. Instead of running clockwise, it ran counter clock wise. This made the Hornet run the curves better from the torque of the engine.
I'm not sure that is accurate. I know he did that with an Indy car though. It was referred to as the Reverse Torque Special. Sounds pretty radical, but is was fairly simple in nature. It was a Kurtis Kraft body, with an Offy in it. Since the Offy was originally a marine engine, you could simply order one that turned the opposite direction, since that is commonplace in boats. (Offy #210 is the one Smokey ordered) Then he used a Halibrand quick change in the rear, but he ordered a FWD model, designed to rotate the opposite way.
Don't forget his head porting tricks and cam tricks!
But it was not a success either.
@@v12tommy Offy was not a marine engine , it was Peugeot race engine from 1910s
@@V8Lenny I'm not sure where you got your information, but that is incorrect. Leo Goossen, who designed the Offy, didn't even start working for Harry Miller until 1919. I believe you are referring to the 1912 4 cylinder Peugeot built by "Les Charlatans", which was the first ever DOHC automobile engine, but that is about where the similarities end between that engine and an Offy. The birth of the Offy really occurred in 1926, when powerboat racers were looking for a cheaper option for racing, compared to the exotic engines of the era. The front 4 cylinders of a 310 cu in Miller straight 8 were used to make a 151 cu in 4 cylinder. It was 2 valves per cylinder, and has almost no common parts to a 220 or 255 Offy, but the Miller Marine 151 is considered by many to be the birth of the modern Offy. It eventually found its way from boats into a car for the first time in 1930, in order to set a new land speed record.
The best example of Penske's creative interpretation of the rules was the Mercedes-Benz Ilmor "pushrod" engine they used at the '94 Indy 500.
Smokey was a genius An absolute legend
One of my favorite stories so far!
Sup dca love ur channel
Never thought I’d see you here but this actually makes sense
I was just watching one of your event week videos
Yeah
Years ago I ran 65 Chevy in NHRA Super Stock class . I remember meeting Grumpy Genkins in judges pit and they flagged him for changing the air flow over his windshield by putting half a gasket extra on bottom of windshield to change the angle.
This guy has all the best stories! And his story-telling way is absolutely fantastic! Just a guy, on a chair, narrates a simple story and it's f-king amazing!
Needs to get rid of that beard though
@@behindthen0thing in what way does his beard interfere with the story? He is telling the story so good that I'm not even reflecting on his appearance, but instead "seeing" the scenario that he's talking about. 😍
A podcast style would be great too
Despite his annoying drop in decibels every other word
He's very gullible too. Some of these tales are impossible.
This would make a great movie about each team trying to out cheat one another.
hollywood would only screw it up!
@@marydesmond9595 - You're probably right. They'd make Smokey Yunick a trans woman of color who's struggling against the rules of the game that were intrinsically designed to oppress her/him/they. On second thought...🤔...F Hollywood.
I think they made this movie and called it ford v ferrrari.
I was in a book club that was on KZhead and we all ordered the Smokey books and would read a chapter and talk about it the next week . This guy had a great war story, great race story. He was the Forrest Gump of racing. Was always so close to being rich.
The car in the Smokey Yunick segment was a 66 Chevelle. It took two years to build and he ran it in 68.
you caught the guy calling the car a 1968 too the car was a 1967 with a 1966 nose a guy i knew who worked for smokey told me that
I thought it was a 67 in rear n a 66 nose...
Yep not 68.
I immediately headed for the comments when the "car historian" called that Chevelle a '68 after reportedly seeing it in person.
My first car was a '66 Chevelle. Indeed, the front is absolutely a '66, and the rear looks to me like a '67. There are hardly any noticeable differences between those two model years other than that.
Smokey yunick was one of the best in the world. I'm a retired machinist in building hot rod motors I read his books and learn everything about small block Chevys and everything ever invented and tested and prototyped in his shop. There's only one smokey, thank you for speaking on him not many people know that much about him
I went to the auction when his garage closed. All the special bits had gone by then but I bought a couple of stock items as a memory of the great guy who influenced so much.
Would have been intresting if he made his way over to build f1 cars. They love an initiative engineer. 😊
I lived in Daytona in the late 60's just a short distance from Smokey's shop. Next to him was Ray Fox, they shared the same building but had them set up separately. Painted in different color to appear as two different auto shops. I do remember that Smokey was the only one who could make cars that would keep up with the factory prepared race cars in the big races. All the other cars were just also rans.
Great stories! Glad you mentioned the Porsche 917 because apparently they built some of the 25 road-going versions with truck axles in order to get past the FIA’s homologation rule. Porsche didn’t have the time or the money to build those cars properly. There’s some incredible motorsport stories out there. Would be great to see some more videos on this!
They weren't road-going versions, Porsche was forced to build the 25 cars needed for homologation before they were allowed to race any. Building 25 cars in due course was usually sufficient, and Porsche felt they were being singled out by the FIA. However, smarting at the inference that they wouldn't be able to complete the task, they worked tirelessly to build the cars, drawing even secretaries in to help. Apparently some of the cars had live rear axles installed in a makeshift manner instead of transaxles and engines as time got the better of them. They just hoped that every one of the 25 cars lined up for inspection wouldn't be closely scrutinised by the FIA, and fortune ended up favouring the brave.
There's a video on that story on this channel too
One of the best parts of "cheating" was in the Monaco rally when Alpha Romeo started the rally dirt tyres and changed from dirt to road tyres when the dirt section ended. No where in the rules did it say your weren't allowed to do this but it was expected that you finish the stage on the same tyres you started on. They smashed Audi who were decimating everyone in the Quattro
I think you'll find that was Lancia ;)
@@sesamstraathooligan9587 yea, wasn't it the salt one
There was no rules to say it was illegal... and Audi got the rules changed allowing 4wd cars.... and it was Lancia. btw its Alfa Romeo
Yeah, It was Lancia, and they also bought all the road salt in town at one of the Rallys to thaw all the ice before the 037 did its run
@@99bimmer at the monte carlo rally.
Bruce Canepa told me the Javelin brake story. He said , Penske convinced Porsche to list the 917 brakes in their parts catalog. Until then they had not been available, “over the counter”, just through the Porsche racing division. Also, the front suspension arms were all custom fabricated on the Javelin. Donahue had an engineering degree from Browns University, and was brilliant. As a 13 year old, I had the opportunity to meet him in Boston shortly after his Indy win. He stayed after his lecture and talked with me for a half an hour about a new turbo 917 Can Am car they were building. He really lit up talking about. It was his baby!
I built engines and worked on a couple of stock cars. Smokey's comment that "It's not cheating, it's creative interpretation of the rules." has always stuck with me. Our cars and engines were always legal, but always on the edge of the rules or with things that they didn't think of. We had to run stock rotating assembly and no drilling to lighten the crank, so I took a 350 crank and had it cut to small journal sizes which cut friction and lightened to whole assemble; legally? Smokey once built a Granada which had to have stock brakes. He took a rearend out of a Lincoln Versailles which gave him 4 wheel discs. Tech said they were illegal because Grenadas don't have 4-wheel discs. Smokey pointed out that it says "stock", not "original" brakes. It's all in the interpretation.
Great stories told in an amusing way. Thanks! Loved it!
Attention Vinwiki: please do more stories about the old racing days ! The bigger guy who told about 24 hours of les man ( sorry don't know his name ) was great too!
Which episode?
@@aakashthaker not sure if he’s talking about this one or not, but here is John Ficarra telling the story of the 1965 Le Mans race - kzhead.info/sun/nLZxdrRplqKgoWg/bejne.html All of Ficarra’s stories are good, but that Le Mans one is one of my favorites of his.
@@brightmoor Thank you so much brother! Needed some quality content to binge on!
Same dude no get,that's the whittion 935 story and the Ferrari one.
Jay Lamm talking about the 24 Hours of Lemons?
I used to race go-karts and we all ran the same engine. It had a large combustion chamber and low compression ratio. The head and cylinder was cast as one unit. It came with short reach spark plug so I replaced it with the longest reach plug that they make thus raising the compression a lot. It worked, I went from being a back marker to the fastest overnight. It was not illegal then but 3 years later they made a rule change making it illegal. I had found a loop hole!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you John I love how you tell stories and I love the stories that you tell so I cannot thank you enough.
Smokey Yunick and Junior Johnson are some of the greatest minds of all time. They could bend the rules requiring new rules to be made while breaking other rules and getting away with it all because they knew how to achieve both.
I went from crew member to driver to tech inspector at my local track, and I can say that liberal interpretations of the rule book, and outright disdain for the rules, was not, um, uncommon.
I racer told me once, "You can cheat all you want, until you start winning. Then they'll catch you."
Same way the casinos look the other way if people under 21 play the slot machines, only to suddenly want ID if they win big.
My grandpa drives an exact replica of Mark Donohue Z/28 with the number 6 on it. He races on the East Coast at Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, and Thompson. He's been part of the HRG and VRG racing groups for a good ten years now, and i think he would get a real kick watching this video! Awesome storytelling as well!
Could you imagine what racing would be today without all the rulebook? Can you imagine just how exciting it would actually be again?
You mean, one or two people would be uncatchable. Not exciting at all.
@@wiredforstereo And then a yea later it would be three to four people, and a year after that a dozen and a year after that, they would be racing around the moon.
It would become so prohibitively expensive that no one could compete.
I think danger is a big factor too. If you let race teams build whatever they want the cars start to become insanely dangerous
@@probablyinconsistent4756 Aww come on. Group B wasn't THAT bad.
‘We’re all looking for sneaky ways to get ahead, but it’s more fun when that’s at 200mph’ love that haha
I was at a dinner some years ago, where John Coombs (Jaguar) and Frank Sytner (BMW/Alpina) were present. They were trying to outdo each other with tales of totally outrageous cheating at motor races. The one I really liked was from the 1950's, when race cars had knock off eared centre lock wheel nuts. There was a race where the rules said that at some point, each car had to come in to the pits and change their rear tyres with only the driver and co-driver working on the car. John and his chief mechanic got up in the middle of the night and went round all the other competitors with the largest copper hammer they could find, and tightened the heck out of the centre lock nuts. When John's D-type came into the pits, it was away again in less than half a minute. They had a two lap lead on the rest of the field by the time the poor struggling drivers had managed to get their wheel nuts unscrewed.
Lmfao
Wheels coulda fallen off next lap after threads stretched and killed a driver.
@@benjaminjones5029 You really cannot tighten those very large and deep threads on a Rudge Whitworth centre lock spline drive wheel with a hammer, enough to strip the threads. On my later peg drive centre lock wheels on an F2 car, using a far smaller thread, the nut was torqued with a 3/4" drive impact tool to 450 foot/lbs, far more than you could get with a hammer.
@@wilsonlaidlaw Sorry I thought I said stretched threads not stripped threads. Stripping threads normally occurs due to incorrect threading. Stretching threads occurs due to deformation from over-loading. With a two inch metal lug attached I'll beat that 610Nm nut straight off with a hammer no worries. If you'd struggle with it that's fine, no worries Mr. F2. Guess you don't really ever see the need to use a torque wrench to avoid over tightening?🤔
no you weren't lol
I am not a NASCAR fan but listening to you talk about it and the enthusiasm you have for these stories is very entertaining and enlightening.
One thing that was not mentioned about Smokey's Chevelle was he moved the body back on the chassis to get a better weight distribution. If you look at the front fender on Smokey's car, the front wheels are up against the front bumpers. The wheelbase was the same as stock, but the body was back several inches on the frame. Another thing, and it couldn't be called a "cheat" by anybody, but an "innovation." On his Indy car one year, he moved the driver to the left side of the car to bias the weight so it could go through a turn better. It worked.
I went to the Darlington museum as a teenager with my dad. The one thing that struck with me was someone had filled the roll cage with fuel to get an advantage.
I've been to that museum.
I have heard of a roll cage being sealed up and being used as a Nitrous tank
@@Samqdf I think that was the Dodge Boys back in the 90's.
@@Samqdf Oh that's awesome.
If you can find Smokey's book, I highly recommend it. During the war, he was a bomber pilot and had many crazy exploits flying all over Africa and Europe. It's nearly 1,000 pages but I could not put it down.
I found the bomber pilot section the most interesting. It contained information that never made it into other WW2 historic publications.
A co-worker that runs drag cars on the weekends is all about racing & we were offshore & had a book that had a bunch of Smokey’s stories. I enjoyed the read & I enjoyed the way you told them. Nice work!
Great stories, it was amazing listening to it. Cheers!
I laughed out loud when I heard Porsche regarding the 'Factory Parts' story. That's just brilliant!
Roger Penske does not own all kinds of dealerships just to make money, it is so that any part ever made is available to his race team 24/7/365. He does not own a truck line to make money, it is so every engine nameplate takes his call. He owns the tire testing tracks so if he needs tire testing time the schedule is his first. He made a skunk works engine program that cost in excess of what the rest of the teams spent in total just to have the hottest ride for the month of may. Not many race teams can get away with all the nameplates on speed dial at the same time and still get the best of the best from them. Sure he has a net worth of billions, he has blown that much paying engineers and manufactures for amazing chunks of race gear not everyone else has. Root for him in some divisions and root against him in others. His family is sane and will be good stewards of 16th & Georgetown.
There's a German interview series (alte Schule - oldschool) on KZhead that has an interview with Porsche 917 test and race driver Willi Kauhsen. One time he recalled how he went to Ferdinand Piech, telling him that the brakes go soft, meaning the whole brake caliper is warm and widens with the pressure of the pistons. So Piech ordered the new and improved brake calipers to be designed and made by Porsche's racing team. Before that, they had experimented with all kinds of brakes. So, yes, these were probably the best brakes at that time.
Along with a few others, I was fortunate enough to sit at a breakfast table with him at SEMA. He was almost totally deaf; so he did all the talking. He told the gas line story. Another was ride height. There is a minimum height on the front. He would place appropriate size stones between the spring coils to bring it up. Once around the track and the stones were crushed and fell out. Dropped the front down. One thing he wouldn't talk about was his zero heat loss engine.
I don't know how many of the cheats were actually used, but they make great stories. Thanks for the video.
Jill St. John did that with her elbow on one of the Scarabs. Our auto shop teacher had connections. One of the graduates worked at Traco. A couple of us would go and watch. One time he stopped us in the alley. Jill had a photo taken resting her elbow on the car and dented it. It was a finished car and people were pissed. It was interesting watching. The first time I had seen a planishing hammer, English wheel and a buck used to form panels.
One of my favourite non-mechanical cheats was the swiftie that Harry Schell pulled out late in qualifying for the 1959 United States Grand Prix at Sebring. His quickest time had been 3 minutes 11 seconds, but just before the end of the session he managed a 3 minute 5 second lap, putting him on third place on the grid behind Stirling Moss and Jack Brabham The reason for his fast lap only came out after the race. Just beyond the MG bridge and before the Esses was a sharp right turn that apparently led nowhere. Schell found, however, that it connected with the end of the Warehouse Straight, bypassing the entire straight and the Warehouse Hairpin. On his final qualifying lap he used this short cut, thus cutting 6 seconds of his previous best lap time.
I’m
@@joeryan6271 Me too
same here@@joeryan6271
Love that description of how fast the fuel would come on after they increased pressure. You could feel the car go "thunk" as it squatted down suddenly. Hilarious.
Hahahahaha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've always been more of a ship/boat guy than a car guy but I LOVE these stories.
John is the best story teller on this channel. I could listen to him for hours.
I think Smokey’s best work was his gen2 Camaro he took to California. He blew away Penskes camaros, set new track records and told his driver to never park it next to another camaro because it was three inches wider. He then loaded it up took it back to Florida and never raced it. The man also built great engines!
i was a fabricator in nascar for 30 years, the car museums are loaded with my work, including great cheats like the shoe box gas tank and nitrous tank alternator, plenty of chopped tops and narrowed cars and im the originator of gluing lug nuts to the rim. i got very little credit / it all went to the owners. in return i was friends of most of the greats doing what i loved ,racing. my hats off to 2 of the greatest of all time, freddie lorenzen and ralph moody.
Howdy Sir. Hope you had a great life.
to violettjett. ramo scott whos credited with gluing lug nuts to the rim, paid crew chief john green / for ray fox $100.00 for the concept. fox had threatened to fire green for spending 5 days on trying to make a lug nut 5 finger holder, / i was body and fender for fox at that time. i came up with the idea of just putting the lugs on the wheel first / the first attempt was i had david fox magnetize the lug nuts on a magna-hyla machine. this worked but not perfect. then between myself and green we got 3m trim glue to work . we knew we could take the rockingham pit race that was coming up. but then fox did not have a sponsor so he canceled going to rockingham. thats when green sold the idea to ramo. i would be more then happy to take a lie detector test on this, you may have invented the wheel violettjett but i invented putting the fucking lugs to the wheel.
@@williamdeans101 awesome man! I used to love NASCAR and I know it's been said a bajillion times, but when Earnhardt died, so did NASCAR. It was already getting sick, but that just killed it. It's so freaking boring now.
@@dannylowery7000 thanks. nascar died when gary nelson, a high grade cheater himself was appointed head tech for nascar, he basically made up rules which in theory allowed lap racers to run up front with the big dogs. / in my day out running the guy behind you won the checkered flag
@@williamdeans101 NASCAR got so boring, I started watching drag racing, pro mods specifically. Don't know why, but I love that class. I like the fuel cars too, don't get me wrong. Tricky Ricky has taken Earnhardt's place so far as my favorite driver, him and Stevie Fast Jackson. I got hooked on drag racing when I went to Charlotte and saw 4 wide! 40,000 horses unleashed at the same time is WICKED!
I reckon I've watched this video 10 times over the years, I reckon I could watch it another 10. The beauty of motorsport is finding that "edge" over your competitors. Motorsport brings out the creativity in these endeavor's.
When you said about the large fuel tank on a stand for refuelling, I was kind of expecting you to say that they then hooked an air line to it, to pressurise it, rather than pushing it 20ft into the air
Smokey was brilliant. The things he did to and for NASCAR can not be underestimated. He not ONLY cheated the Rule Book, he cheated the wind.
And he knew how to build a badass 396 too.
OVERestimated, bro
He only cheated the rule book if the exact rule was in there.
@@donoberloh he never cheated the rule books
Smokey was a genius and probably the smartest engine guy around. It's not cheating if it is not prohibited in the rules. It was true in the old days and still is today.
He has a spot in the automotive Hall of Fame not for racing but for how much his cheating innovations contributed to the overall Auto industry. He had over like 200 patents if I recall correctly
John tells a great story. 🙂
When I was a kid in the early 60's, a relative gave me a stack of Popular Science magazines, and one of their features was Smokey Yunick's "Say Smokey" column.
The story about Smokey and the large fuel line has gotten a little distorted over the years, part of the pit area at a racetrack is called the team's "garage", that's where they tune and adjust during the test days before the actual race, that's the "garage" that Smokey drove the car to after he started it up without a fuel tank in it after the famous "better make it 11" line of his after being disqualified from them finding 10 violations, the story has gotten distorted because when people heard he "drove back to his garage" they assumed that it was his shop in Daytona not understanding that "garage" is a term for where the team's work on their cars at the track.
That’s what I was thinking
Good Stories always end up amplified.
The story in his book that he told was that he drove the car on the street back to his shop in Ormond, while running all of the traffic lights on the way, because he was so pissed. I'm not debating your take on it, but that's what's in the book.
Ever heard of punctuation?
@@Tommy_Mac Do really think that a NASCAR race car that consumes fuel at the rate they do would have made it back there on one gallon? And how would he have gotten it out of the venue without it being on a trailer and everything? I don't think the France family is real hype on allowing a car to just drive out of that area and onto the streets of Daytona Florida with the way they've always been about NASCAR's image, I'd lay odds while that function is going on there's gates that are closed that have to be opened and other such things if for no other reason the sake of keeping some idiot from on the streets driving into the venue and to that area or onto the track itself, just can't see that happening for a whole bunch of common sense reasons including while he'd be going through Daytona the town would already be swarming with cops on duty because of everyone in town for the race that'd most likely take exception to him doing that. Sure you don't have a couple of stories of his from the book intertwined with each other?
This is absolutely fascinating! I can’t get over dipping an entire car in acid. The chemist/engineer in me is cringing so hard at the safety ramifications but, like, the chemist/engineer in me also really wants to see this happen in real life. 🤣
Mopar drag cars in 64-5 did it.
I'm surprised that he didn't mention that later Penske Camaro's had a vinyl roof. Why? Not for style (this was 1969, after all), but because they wanted to hide the acid-dipped roof visibly sucking down at speed, and the black vinyl made it harder to detect.
I was also thinking about the refueling tank one
Pretty common with aluminum airplane skins. Called Chem Milling. Can mask off areas you dont want to be etched out. Ends up looking like a terraced field.
Happened on more than one occasion also check out the drag racers who did it all the time too, check out the light weights I also remember when they used to fill the tube front axels with bird shot to keep the front ends down was really big with the rails and I heard that one axel broke during from a hard landing and spilled the contents all over the entire track and it took over an hour to clean it all up.
Regarding "unfair advantages", if anyone can do it, but you're the only one who thought of it, it's bloody fair.
That was an awesome story. Thank You for presenting it.
Interpreter of the rules. THANK YOU FOR MAKING THAT CLEAR! Smokey didnt cheat, he sought out and took advantage of the loopholes - til NASCAR closed 'em. ! Important question: How many technological advances were made by "engineers" who looked for better faster ways of doing things??
Just to add to the story of Smokey and the fuel line, he ran it through the roll cage to hide it. So I’ve been told.
I just asked the same question...ive heard about the fuel in the hollow tubes of the Roll Cage...i dont think its to of an over the top idea...sounds more likely than the basketball idea
Along with the Nitrous Oxide.
Some say that was the nitro methane tank for the final lap
he didn't mention when Smokey discovered if he sprayed the bell hsg full of spray insulation, then let the fly wheel cut itself a path through it, tapped the bell hsg, installed a pressure gauge and found 10 psi boost. He ducted it to the engine.Suddenly Smokey's NASCAR Chevelle had boost. Another time he had a bottle of NOS under the seat. Also an airplane alternator. Was behind the grille and it's own propeller turn the alt, freeing the engine from having to donate 5-10 hp to turn it.
@@fireball1322 The propeller on the alternator was real, but it doesn't give you 5-10 hp. The advantage is less than one hp.
Very interesting stories. Thank you.
Colin Chapman was the Uk's version of Roger Penske. He was the master of acid etching! I read somewhere in Motorsport magazine, that someone entered a 2 stroke engine in a 1500 cc category, it won, as it was running at twice the cycle time. a rival team complained it should be entered in the 3 litre class. This was upheld, but rule changes were made!
Innovation, new ideas. Cheating, breaking rules. Some great Innovation stories.
My favorite era in automobiles and racing. The real geniuses before the rules killed everything. Smokey Yunick, was one of my favorites. The pinnacle of that unfettered era was Can Am. No rules, no holds barred, straight genius pushing the automotive envelope, just moments in history before the greatest suppression of automotive technology in the 70s. I've said it before. Had Zora Argus Duntov been allowed to do what he wanted, fuel injection systems which came in the late 80s early 90s to "rescue" the automobiles and put them to today, would have been accomplished in the 70s thereby negating much of the smog and mpg problems which plagued American cars especially. We would've had a mid-engined C-3 Corvette powered by a version of a fuel injected ZL-1or LT-1 or probably both. An interview with Carroll Shelby where he reiterated similar beliefs, in which he said "If GM would've let Zora do what he wanted, there would've been no reason for us to ever build a Cobra".
Pretty much only American cars switched to fuel injection in the "late 80s", most of the European and Japanese marques had made the switch in the early 70's.
Fascinating! Great story telling!👍
Wish that "What wins on Sunday sells on Monday" could be more impactful now as it was then.
Smoky never cheated… He maximize his use of rules loopholes
"Superior Rules Reading". It's not what the rules say that matters, it's what they don't say.
Yes doñ
Imagine what could have happened if he had become a lawyer
@James. He would be Perry Mason!
Cheating is breaking the rules. He didn’t break any rules 🤷🏻♂️
1:00 that's a 66 chevelle
I was looking for this comment😂
Yep, and according to legend the front fenders were pie-cut at the doors to lower the nose. Also, the fuel tank vent was turned the wrong way around, actually pressurising the fuel tank and forcing the fuel towards the pump. Bottom of the control arms were smoothed to aid airflow...lots more, but I can't remember them!
i was just gonna say the same thing because i have a 66 and that aint no 68😂
He said "68 Chevelle" because in NASCAR, you could use cars (at least back in the day) that were up to 3 (I think) years old. So it was his year 1968 entry. '68 is when they changed the body shape for the Chevelles, as I am sure you all know, and looked savagely different. it seems to me the 68 body style would have increased aerodynamics on the car, but it was easier (meaning "cheaper") to use a 2-year-old car than it was to use a brand-new car.
@@krystalskye949 nah he called the car a 1968 Chevy Chevelle. He even said he got in close contact with them. He don't know what he talking about.
Thank you, love the stories.
My great uncle was Jerry Karl. He was Smokey’s last driver and boy were they meant for each other. We have some absolutely wild stories about what they and my grandfather got into.
I remember my auto shop teacher back in the 80's, he was an older man that used to drag race back 60's and tell us about how they used to cheat, cutting up a chassis and removing metal here and there and moving stuff around and adding metal where it counted, oh! the memories.
Richard Petty said it best; “If you’re getting caught, you ain’t doin’ it right”
Really enjoyed this video! Lots of fun stuff exposed here. Drive on!
These stories amazed me… thanks for this vid 🏎 💨
Great video ! I was racing while going to college to become a mechanical engineer and saw the trans am series with Mark driving. Also saw the 917 . One thing you missed was the AMC block had all Chevrolet internals as the stock AMC stuff was junk ! I had a nitrous tank inside my radiator with lines going through the upper hose to the bottom of the intake with solenoid and lines to the intake ports. Made for a few seconds of 150 hp on last lap passing. Mark Martin drove a camaro on short tracks with no spring on the right rear. We called the 3 legged dog. 70% of the car weight was shifted to the left side. Very fast. How about the NASCAR guy who put lead bird shot in the frame and released them during the race? Pretty sly.
The “no spring” story makes absolutely no sense.
The roof replacement story was actually from 1970, and it involved the Sam Posey Autodynamics Dodge Challenger. It was at the season’s first race at Laguna Seca. Their tech inspector had finished, then leaned against it as he was chatting. It caved in, and they had to obtain authority to commandeer a roof from a car that was in stock at a dealer in Monterey or Salinas. According to Posey, they overdid the “chem milling”, which lead to problems with the car’s structure. I brought that subject up with Ken Epsman when he owned it, and he said, “How did you know about that?” And proceeded to take me on a tour of the car, pointing out the exact places where the weld repairs on-the-fly took place. The SCCA tech guys did order the Penske team remove the vinyl roof early in the season, because other teams were complaining. Donohue, in The Unfair Advantage, said that they just cut the roof off and replaced it, to save time.
Dude sure knows how to tell captivating stories. Loved this!
Loved the elevated fuel tank filling. Great stuff.
I was a kid of 13 (1968) when I started helping at the shop of my neighbor who was a factory Plymouth Super Stock and later Pro Stock racer. And the most important thing I learned was creative rule book interpretation. Back then if you didn’t cheat you would be back on the trailer in very short order. It was fun because everyone could eventually figure out what you were doing but nobody would speak up for fear of also being caught in the act. It was Mopar vs Chevy vs everyone else and you either played along or you risked loosing your factory support. It was a fun time to be around and watch the legends play.
To me the so called "greatest Interpreter of the rules" was Lancia group B rally team.
yeh one of the all time best.... and that yank Porsche that had nitros in the side skirts haha
Don’t forget the Lotus 79 with its ground effects as well.
@@jameswood1935 bb
It’s funny because that lotus car was used on so many different forms of racing after that.
Also Team Toyota in the 90s with how they bypassed the restrictor plate on the turbo.
Great innovations around the rule book. Love it.
One of the few occasions the yt algorithm brings up a nice surprise. I actually liked this one! Could listen to those stories for hours...probably exactly what I'm going to do now. 😂
How did it go... it's been 3 days surely you've finished
@@Sandi_shores_lands_fish Not even close. But I'm not hasty. 😊