In the second instalment of my series exploring the flaws of modern moviemaking, I'm going to be discovering why smart, mature characters seem to be a thing of the past.
In the second instalment of my series exploring the flaws of modern moviemaking, I'm going to be discovering why smart, mature characters seem to be a thing of the past.
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@Rapunzel ♪ i didnt know that 😍
Go away now!!
They're Written By Children for childish minds so people growing up become dumber and easier to control.
PLEASE review the new 4400!
Hey Drinker, I recommend a series (or was a movie?) called Manhunt: Deadly Games. Despite the tawdry title I found it to be a very pleasant surprise, especially for something on Netflix. It took all your preconceived notions about characters and turned them around. It was adapted from a book that was supposedly based on real life (The aftermath of the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing). I knew about Jewel but did not know the rest of the story. If you’ve seen it, I’d love your opinion.
Personally think of it like this: most older movies were stories, most modern movies are spectacles.
That's actually about right.
True. Just like adaptions today aren't about telling the story. They're about changing the story.
This is the reason I can't stand when ppl on YT rate Marvel movies higher than an actually good movie with a story and character development. Just because it's a good spectacle with nice fights and VFX. ... effin tragic.
we have technology to improve spectacles, but our technology did not improve stories or dialogue. The best we had is AI writing story like a drunk children.
Nail on the head
Glad to see someone else sees this. My dad puts it this way "Imagine a group of middle schoolers coming together to rewrite all classic films and IPs. That's modern media."
My sentiments exactly
pretty spot on!
I noticed this problem, without being able to fully articulate it, when they "remade" the movie Red Dawn.
Your dad nailed it.
Your comment reminded me of that Batman take where Bruce Wayne and Jack Napier were high school students. Anyone else remember that trailer "Bruce Wayne doesn't have friends, he has followers" then it showed a social media page on (IRCC) Selina Kyle's phone?
Have you noticed the increase in “adult” language? In the old movies, swearing isn’t used unless the dialogue demands it to make the lines more impactful. Today they sound like 8 year olds on Xbox live.
Especially for female characters. I guess the writers think a foul-mouthed woman is "empowering".
I prefer the 1 swear policy, where you only have 1 swear in the entire movie to make that 1 scene more impactful.
"Well, double dumb ass to you!" Colorful metaphors were used to emphasize they were back in time in Star Trek 4 The Voyage Home. Like Kirk said, nobody back in time "would listen to you unless you swore every other word. You will find it in all the literature of the period."
Yes, I noticed the very same thing and wrote a comment about it before I saw your comment. The characters swear so much, especially the women, that swearing loses all meaning. It makes every character come across as an amateur, and unworthy of respect.
I'm guessing they must think they're rebels. Rebelling against the old way of writing and character creating. So they make use of foul language because it's silly to hear that from star trek. Have the attitude of children and just come off as "im this way and not changing for anyone" rather than be professional as an academy would most likely teach you to be like.
"Losing control is not a sign of strength. It's a sign of deep weakness and insecurity" THIS!!!!!!!
Hah. I was going to quote this exact phrase when your comment popped up. The algorithm must be getting to know me.
Just when I read this, that exact moment appeared in the video.
What's worse is when you have a serious film where the adults act like children and the children act like adults.
That sounds like a lot of lame horror movies.
Pretty much all Disney kids shows. The father is always and idiot.
At least it fits well with the men acting like women and visa verse trend.
@@SynnJynn Nickelodeon started that shit.
Even *Worse* is nowadays you have tiny women fighting like huge males & huge males with the power of tiny women 😞
"Isn't it great when characters act like actual adults?" YES! yes it is!
@Rapunzel ♪ nice one
@Rapunzel ♪ omg 😍😍
Even more so in the real world.
Politicians and news figures don't act like actual adults, why should movie actors?
First Order: wut?
I think part of this ultimately comes down to the life experiences and history of the individuals actually writing the story. Since you mentioned Star Trek, let’s look at Gene Roddenberry for example… this is a guy who flew 89 combat missions during WW2 and worked as a commercial pilot after the war. He later joined the LAPD and eventually got involved in the entertainment industry after becoming a liaison on shows like Dragnet. My point is that all of these life experiences fed into his ideas and inspirations when it came to Star Trek (as well as more traditional inspirations such as other works of fiction like John Carter of Mars and Tarzan). Now compare this to people like Alex Kurtzman and Robert Orci who co-wrote both of the JJ Abrams-directed Star Trek movies. The two of them met in high school, and after university went straight into writing for syndicated television, which eventually led to progressively bigger and more high-profile gigs. My reason for making this comparison is: what inspiration did the latter duo have to draw from when writing THEIR Star Trek? The answer is nothing except for _previous Star Trek_ (and other sci-fi movies). That’s why Star Trek into Darkness was such an inept, lacklustre rehash of Wrath of Khan, because Kurtzman and Orci remember _watching_ that movie as kids, and have fond memories of it, but have nothing new or original to actually bring to the table. And I’m not suggesting here that in order to write compelling stories you need to have literally gone to war or been a cop, I’m simply talking about LIFE experiences _outside_ of your career as a “writer”… and that can be literally anything from working in a factory to being a fisherman or even just working in a convenience store (such as Kevin Smith who went on to make Clerks which launched his career). The problem as I see it is that way too many leading names in the entertainment industry these days just seem to be individuals who came out of high school/university and straight into a career in filmmaking. Often times this can be attributed simply to nepotism but in many cases that’s not necessarily the case. Even people who gain success in the industry by starting relatively low and working their way up, (while commendable in its own right) still lack the vital life experiences _outside_ of the industry to write compelling and convincing narratives.
You give some interesting history about Gene Roddenberry, thanks! Good insight about life experiences going into entertainment. I think the same should apply to teachers.
@Thomas Hancock Books, especially biographies are a wonderful and detailed source to inspire other writers. Many authors said that if you don't read more than you write, it's impossible to write a good story and it's absolutely true.
Teachers being another example. I worked for about 14 years as a school technician and the few excellent teachers had generally had a variety of previous jobs. The most selfish, entitled and lazy fuckers had all gone from school to university, to teacher training college, and then back to school. It was an eye opener.
Gene are basically the Tolkien of Sci-fi. both guys went through war and wrote a story based on their hard experiences of went through hell and back.
I do believe that there is a way for a writer to grow and mature into a good story teller without having to have much life experience if they are also willing to listen and learn from the past generation. Many writers based their stories off of what they heard from their parents or grandparents, others took bits and pieces from other works and jammed them into a creative idea of originality, while some wrote from the deep understanding of autobiographies. But these still share something that most of these immature, bratty people don't have, respect and humility.
The other great bit of the Data/Worf scene is that neither Data nor the writer intends to "knock down Worf a peg or two". Worf gets a redemption later on in the episode with his "health and safety inspection" idea ... which Data initially rejects, then reconsiders, showing that the earlier incident has done nothing to diminish Worf in anyone's eyes. Worf shows character in owning up to his behavior, and Data shows character in not holding it against him any further than the conversation. The writer got it.
Later on, it's Worf being promoted, long overdue ... Data never made commander.
"They're Written By Children." Well your characters are only ever as smart as you can write them.
Me who’s not that smart: *fuck*
@@marlom7882 Join the club we got jackets
When you roll an 18 intelligence playing d&d. I'd appreciate if we all just pretended my character is smart.
@Rapunzel ♪ love it :D
Exactly. When dumb idiots write, you get dumb idiot characters.
The worst thing about new Star Trek is seeing Spock, a guy who holds thoughtfulness and logic to be the highest thing, running around yelling and not being able to control himself
I agree. Leonard Nimoy is spinning in his grave. Granted he is 'just' an actor, but he worked very hard to shape the Vulcan culture, to define its norms, to show how Vulcans (or even half vulcans) should approach the world, and why they act how they do. Other actors that respected that followed, such as Tim Russ and Jolene Blalock. Now we have people playing "Vulcans" that aren't anywhere near the confines laid down. The new 'Star Trek' movies would be fine generic action movies I guess, but they should never have bothered with the setting and characters of a franchise if they were just going to bastardize them.
@@SweetBearCub Nimoy had a considerable input not only on defining Spock, his backstory and consequently a huge whack of lore, but also the tone of the show. And he gets all the best lines :)
@@SweetBearCub Ever notice that actors playing "small part" Vulcans almost invariably play them as massive jerks? I think I first noticed it with the admiral on Wesley's punishment tribunal at the Academy.
@@SweetBearCub Is that Zach Quinto's fault or is that the direction he is getting? I didn't feel like he was wrong in the first JJ movie.
The new spock is woke
So on the mark! When someone is yelling at me, I raise the shields! The screaming/yelling characters are bad enough but its almost always combined with visual overload. Totally mind-numbing. With Star Trek, these the men and women are the elite of the elite of the elite and yet they behave like they haven't yet mastered puberty. Yelling can and does work-- in a Few Good Men, when Tom Cruise starts to shout at Jack Nicholson in the court room, and the latter loses his cool, it was riveting and had every bit of my attention. Both felt in control even while Jack's control slipped, and they were focus of the scene. The scene where Sauron and Galadriel are yelling at each other reminded me of a 10 year old brother and sister and both are thousands of years old.
Exactly. Controlled aggression is the mark of a mature man. Screaming and shouting about every little thing is the behaviour of a child.
thanks for the advice for why screaming and shouting is unnecessary and how to use it properly
I think a major factor in why the old star trek was so great was that many of the cast and crew had served in the military at one point(many were wwii vets if im not mistaken). Thus they understood good leadership and how to portray there characters in a believable way. It's also just a byproduct of the era they lived in.
What a dumb theory
If I remember correctly, only James Doohan served in the military.
It was the era. In the army I served in back then, if I had addressed my commanding officer as depicted in these ludicrous 'modern' ST episodes, I'd have been stood against a wall...
this makes me wanna watch star trek
@@parzivalthehero1147 William Shatner hadn't done military service but DeForest Kelley was in the USAAF during the war, Leonard Nimory was in the Army Reserve, James Doohan served as an artilleryman in the Canadian forces, seeing action at Juno Beach on D-Day and later becoming a pilot, and George Takei and his family were interned along with other Japanese-Americans during WW2 so their experiences would have brought some real-world perspective.
Funny how the modern, supposedly "non-toxic" versions of these men are the ones screaming at each other and punching each other in the face... 😂
Da-fuq, Kirk was always toxic, even in the remake.
When they say "toxic men" what they really mean is strong men, so weak men who cannot control their own emotions fall into their definition of "non-toxic men".
@@usuariosarcastico512 good point. I always said strength was more than mere muscle. I consider myself somewhat strong in that I'm resilient and confident in my beliefs without needing to break down or be coddled.
Because they have zero idea of how real men act
I wonder if wearing makeup and a dress contributes to toxic masculinity?
remember when a character going into a fit of rage was seen as the character hitting rock bottom and not just a quirky character trait?
So I guess Chef Ramsey’s TV persona still has a lot of character development left to go.
@@Litchy51 he shouts authoritatively, not in rage.
@@Litchy51 Only in the US. Because that's what americans want.
Culture is literally changing and Media reflects that but Media is also the Cause, cause it's all symbiotic. For example, Quotes from the 12. Doctor: "Oh, the Mechanized Space-Suits malfunction and attack us? That's funny cause that means we're like Anyone-else Everywhere-else: We're fighting the Suit!" 12. Doctor:"What makes you feel so superior? It it the good House? But Human-Progress isnt measured by Industry, it's measured by looking at a Life. An unimportant Life... a life without privilege. 13. Doctor: "OMG, OMG, OMG, have you heard of Space-Amazon? Amazon is so epic, everyone who disagrees with that is a literal PIG. We should all stop criticizing Amazon forever." I kid you not, they said that. Holy Penguin, wtf. And yeah, Critical Drinker's massive Success with his 'Why modern movies s-ck'-video-SERIES speaks for itself. People DO want Quality back. I dont know how to help but with ONE thing: recommend you all hour-long, much-entertaining Criticism Essays, like Madvocate did with the Flash, Jay Exci did with Doctor Who and Hbomberguys whole channel basically, but especially RWBY. If we support that, we support ourselves.
Or when awful behavior was either a villain trait, or a trait the character had to overcome and become a better person.
Modern audiences would demand that Data and Worf scream at each other until “strong female character” walks in and insults their masculinity with a series of one liners. Then Data and Worf leave with their tails between their legs while audiences scream “YASSSS QUEEN!”
Euuughh…ikr? Gross woke crap!
If this ever happened, I would ditch the series at the very moment.
I never understood why modern shows and movies have to do everything they can to emasculate meant like almost every movie now the Man, as a woman make fun of his masculinity
@@Helfirehydra It's part of the agenda these days. The most egregious example I can think of at the moment is what Disney did in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. They had 5 interesting male characters in the main ensemble, and managed to screw up all of them. They turned Luke into a broken man, killed Han at the first opportunity, made Kylo Ren into a spoilt child, belittled and emasculated Poe, and side-lined Finn (potentially the most interesting one of the group) in a pointless sub-plot - mostly in the interest of their ham-fisted attempts to create 'strong female characters' in Rey and (to a lesser-extent) Vice-Admiral Holdo, almost-completely forgetting that the franchise already had Leia, a textbook example of how to properly craft such a character.
Oscar material right there
Writing used to be the mandatory path to Directing. It was like leveling up on a video game; you learned the ropes from the ground floor. Today too many go straight to Directing without a foundation in good story telling.
The fucking ewok in Return of the Jedi who shakes his dead friend on the battlefield and briefly grieves to realize he's dead had more depth and emotional impact than the trash produced today. That's how far we have fallen from grace.
@UCEcqOtGaCeAXZmamZtfak5Q This. Is tragic.
So fucking true lol
Jesus -- you're not wrong. Drinker's totally stealing this from you, as he ought.
I hate the Ewoks but have to agree with your point
Now we have E-wokes
My god, this video was so on the mark.
@Rapunzel ♪ haha 😂😂
Jup. Not surprising it's written by 'children'; it's written by school grads that are hired for probably their cheap cost and their brain as well as their personality already died at freshman year from universities and colleges that don't offer knowledge or a skill anymore, just indoctrination that's at the level of 6 year olds; where independent thought, critical thinking, logic and common sense are the first victims to go in favor of moronic 'do you have the right skin color, gender and sexual orientation'.
And, frankly, don't blame the actors for this...it was a director of "of whom we shan't name". (I meant of the new ST films... discovery and lower cocks can...meh)
This!
QDK
They simply cannot write a logical character like Spock anymore because the writers don't know what logic is.
Well, I believe that the characterization OF Spock is also C/R protected. Developed by G Roddenberry, no one can again use the same logical tactics of Spock because they would then have to pay G R's estate for USE of this C/R character. And at $250 MILL for fair use, bahh work out another character.
Logically angry yes.
I just remember one thing... Writers can NEVER write characters that are cleverer/stronger/more mature (whatever trait it is) than themselves. Especially when they don't understand or can't relate to the characters.
The way Spock is written in NuTrek is embarrassing.
@@MollyHJohns It's easy to write characters who are smarter, stronger, and more mature than you. Hell, anyone can write a character stronger than themselves. And smarter, more mature? You have to step outside of your ego, invest time into thinking/research, and allow the characters be themselves and not you. If you can do that, it's easy.
I think it’s interesting to compare movies about WWII from today with those from the 1950s, 60s and 70s. They were written, directed and acted by people who actually remembered the war and in many cases fought in it. This is why their films are so much more sophisticated and nuanced.
THAT IS SO FUCKING FACTS. I never could put my finger on WHY these war films felt so "refined" as corny as that sounds. Even ones that portray goofier characters end up being really well made.
I love old war films. The "stiff upper lip" that people sneer at nowadays conveys deeper and more genuine emotion than the screaming hissy fits in modern films.
In my Scriptwriting class in college, my professor condemned STAR TREK as being misogynistic and racist. He spent like an hour talking about why it's bad. I knew then that my professor was a garbage person and this course was trash. He would pass anyone who used non-binary characters, and gave me a bad mark when I used a violent premise. This is what's wrong with movies these days.
That's literally shit, I'm sorry for you man. I hope you make it one day
Your professor is a snowflake
There’s likely two reasons for this: 1) Movies nowadays are written by sheep, for sheep. Nothing intellectually stimulating or challenging in movies these days, only stories that reinforce the audience’s beliefs and challenge the beliefs of anyone who goes against modern sensibilities. 2) Those who cannot do, teach. If I had to guess, the professor probably couldn’t sell anything worthwhile to a studio because he didn’t know how to write compelling characters, just mouthpieces for his own agenda. My screenwriting professor from grad school sold a couple of scripts back in his day and one of them ended up getting made, but the production was poorly handled so it’s a film he disowns. Sad to say, not much happened with his career after that, so he’s been teaching creative writing and screenwriting classes for the past 15 years.
Its almost like... the characters... are real... people 🤨
Are you sure he is really a "HE"?? This sh*t not sound like a real "HE" saying. Any chance of cross dresser rainbow stuff going on there.
Frank Herbert himself said it best: "There's an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard-earned money (energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment." Movies written by actual children would probably be at least somewhat entertaining. Current writers forget that their movies should be something you want to see because they'll be an enjoyable experience.
While I'll agree the 'new' DUNE looks great and 'seems' okay - especially by today's standards - my problem with it is the casting. It's not a movie - it's the latest release of Hollywood Squares. While I knew of a couple Lord of the Rings actors - most hadn't been crapping all over the screen in the last 30-40 movies released. Now we get wrestlers, pop divas, and every other worn out 'actor' - what was the criteria? At least a book will be 'illustrated' by the reader and not some wannabe ass kisser in Hollywood.
Well said! Sadly nowadays, the majority of Hollywood writers think that if you belong to a certain ethnicity, your money isn't hard-earned but the result of "privilege", while if you belong to another ehtnicity, then you are just another child who needs to be pat on the back for the sake of "diversity" and representation. One way or another, respect isn't part of the equation anymore.
@@b.chaline4394 Its openly disrespectful to tell anyone that without your help, they'd have nothing. And for some reason, those being talked down to and essentially being called lazy are loving the attention. It's like the situation with helping starving people by sending them food. All they do is learn to depend on the shipments and never learn to thrive on their own. They need to be taught how to farm and preserve food instead of being air-dropped pop-tarts and MRE's
If you're not aware of it you should check out a cartoon called Axe Cop. It was literally written by a 5 year old (with his older brother's help) and it's literally better than Hollywood movies.
@@terrylandess6072 I will say, I at least think only one casting choice wasn't that great because of how identifiable she is (Zendaya) and that she expressly can't pronounce Arabic words apparently. Everyone else was a pretty solid part of the movie, imo. I understand wanting to grab fresh talent that may have been better than what we got, but I think even in comparison to older movies, it's not too bad.
Amen on the Worf/Data scene. The problem with modern writers is that they themselves don't understand the fundamentals of human psychology and morality/ethics to be able to integrate the principles into their work, let alone practice them in their personal lives.
While I agree, I think the direction of causality here is a bit different. Its not that they don't understand philosophy or psychology, so they can't write, and also don't apply it to their own lives. Rather, it's that they have, at some subconscious level, intentionally avoided learning about philosophy or psychology. Instead of taking moments, even mundane ones like taking a shit, to think and reflect, they instead see that sort of questioning as internalized hatred, a lack of self confidence, or any number of other things. Because they lack this personal growth, they have no concept of the psychology or philosophy that motivates characters, and so they can't write them nearly as well. The best question you can ask while taking a shit is "Why do I have these two seemingly contradictory opinions?", sometimes you'll realize you've been a bit of a hypocrite, other times you'll identify a distinction that you already knew on some level, but hadn't consciously identified yet, and in either case you'll grow as a person, all because you took a shit.
There are plenty of modern writers who deal with psychology and ethics, they just aren't typically assigned to Abram's projects. And you seem to be reading a hell of a lot into the writers' personal lives from a few action movies/ series for someone who has professed themselves so concerned with morality and ethics.
There's no ethics in a world where opinions are as valuable as facts and rules. That's the main issue.
@kızgın tosbağa Exactly.
@@xminusone1 It's remarkable people latch on to this 2 minute scene concerning military chain of command when discussing ethics on TNG, when the series constantly presented some of the most nebulous and subjective ethical narratives, interpreted through the lens of one of the most utopian, progressive, diverse, and tolerant societies ever conceived in the realm of fiction.
That was exactly the reaction I had to the first of the Abrams' interpretations of Star Trek: the script was written by a nine-year-old boy. "Captain Kirk is so terrific, he goes from raw recruit to senior officer in six weeks!"
Actually if you watch the movie, its a few years on not weeks.
Kirk was in his third year at Starfleet Academy when he was made captain, which is really, really dumb.
A bit like how Rey turns into Mace Windu in about 3 weeks.
Point of fact, the US Army's Woke Recruitment series of TV ads were universally roasted across all the armed services.
As they should be.
You just can't handle progress.
@@frivolousarguments8578 a fitting nickname you have here.
Glad to hear that.
@@frivolousarguments8578 so turning our troops into soyboys is progress? Right
"Why Modern Movies Suck - They're Written By Children" Never a statement has been so truthful than this.
Actually I find that offensive to children with writing potential
Even shows that are made for a younger demographic are written better than modern movies. •Justice League, and J.L.U. •Batman the animated series •90’s Incredible Hulk •Spectacular Spider-Man •My life as a teenage robot •Regular Show •Spongebob You name it.
Angry petulant children blissfully unaware of their own hypocrisy
Whiny spoiled babies who were rarely told no or you failed.
LOL; I've read essays and short stories written by actual children that piss all over the efforts of many of these 'professional writers'!
This is why I love Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. Sure, it's a kids movie, but the movie can actually take risks at some points by analysing themes that can appeal to adults (death and anxiety), despite being aimed for kids, and it can portray them better than alot of adult movies we have today.
sorry for commenting on 2 months old comment but I especially love when drinker mentioned the impact silence can bring, like Kirk reaction to death of his friend or a scene where puss have panic attack and Perrito finds him. Now imagine if your typical hollywood writer made that scene. Imagine having Perito enter this extremley tense scene... and cracking a joke, or slipping on something, or commenting something else, completley oblivious to puss state
Oh please. It's crap for me
@@ohgin12345 why puss in boots is crap for you?
Kids movies used to be the best movies, when they were based on old stories such as the Disney animated films were. These stories developed over hundreds of years with the exact purpose of teaching children important morals and imposing wisdom upon them. Take The Lion King for example, it's a classic beat by beat telling of the hero's journey. The strength of a good movie isn't just about how 'deep' the concepts are, but rather how skillfully you manage to portray those difficult concepts in a way that even a kid could understand, relate to and absorb into their own fiber.
@@ohgin12345 No.
Remember back when Riker, the most rambunctious character in next generation, would ask for permission to speak freely, and then he would say a line that sounded like Dumbledore wrote it, and Picard would look almost shocked that Riker would speak so straightforwardly, and yet it was absolutely polite and respectful
My father used to say that Star Trek is for grown ups as Star Wars is for children, but not in a bad way for any of them, just that Star Trek is for nourishing your intellect while Star Wars is for numb fun. Now Star Trek tries to be Star Wars, while Star Wars is basically Teletubbies.
Indeed.
Star Wars was fun. Now its just a cash cow for the corporate whores at Disney...
Somewhat agree. There is some competent and thought inspiring themes in Star wars, although I wouldn't put it near let alone on par with Star trek although I have to be honest I haven't watched it. Still, your father seems like a smart man.
@@its_dey_mate how can you disagree with out knowing both side I've watched both starwars is for children.
@@odeball22 Did you even read what I said? Clearly not if you aks me. Lacking the ability to understand the written text tells me to not give you a deep diving reply in the themes of SW because it will be pointless in the end. Peace ✌
They think a complex character means being a minority, or being strong means belittling others.
Or a Mary sue.
And completely forget the very simple concept, that a truly interesting character is usually flawed and relatable. Their "champions" are always so detached from reality, the strong independent wahmens that can beat the shit out of 5 guys at once, are super intelligent and charismatic, that are only single because "no man is man enough to handle them". It's boring. At least give her a weird nervous tick or something, ffs.
@@markzuckergecko621 Exactly. Flaws and deficiencies are always more interesting than tacking on extra powers.
Ellie's gay, BTW.
@@jflanagan9696 I watched this piece of shit a year or so ago called "Ava", about some super spy strong wahmens. And there was a scene towards the climax where she has a showdown with the male spy that was kind of like her MK1, he was trained by the same guy as her, they were supposedly equals in nearly all ways, and they have this brutal, drawn out fight where she eventually wins. I actually laughed out loud, like what is this shit???🤣 Alright, maybe some super trained elite spy chick can beat up some random thugs that don't really know how to fight, maybe she can beat up another spy chick, but how am I supposed to believe she can beat up another spy with equal training, but twice the physical strength and stamina? Come on man, I know it's a movie, but the "because wahmens" thing just tosses any semblance to reality straight out the window. She may as well have started flying and doing Crouching Tiger shit, totally ruined the whole movie. And it wasn't great even before that.
I walked in on my dad watching Wrath of Khan right as Spock was dying. I know peanuts about Star Trek. Not only did I feel sad watching that scene even with no context, but also, years later, I can still see in my mind Spock slowly sliding down the glass as he died.
It speaks so much to the richness of the characters, quality of the writing, and Shatner's incredible acting that in the few seconds of you playing the clip of Kirk eulogy to Spock I felt a lump in my throat forming. Precisely because the characters are holding back emotion and exercising restraint, we as the audience get to experience simply more things at once. We feel simultaneously what they are feeling, how they are expressing it, why they are doing so, the difficulty of doing so, and then exactly the ways they fail to do so. It's the difference between a delicious meal made of many complimentary flavours, aged meats, and a sauce that took almost days to make, paired with the perfect red wine, versus chicken nuggets and far too much ketchup. As one matures, one learns not only the ways flavour can interact, but also exactly what those flavours took to create, and you prefer that sensory and emotional experience to the one note intensity of a single flavour, maximised. Star Trek: Beyond is the chicken nuggets to Wrath of Khan's beef wellington.
I actually CRIED watching that clip, and I've never even watched Star Trek.
You're right and now I'm hungry
I was never into geek culture, but recently decided to give Star Trek a try. So far I've seen the Motion Picture, Wrath of Khan, and a few TNG episodes. William Shatner totally blew my mind; manly yet classy, tough yet fair, stoic yet humorous. IMO much more charming and badass than Patrick Stewart.
I actually quite liked beyond. It certainly had issues but it was waaaaaaay better then the first 2 reboot movies. It's not on the level of wrath of Kahn certainly but it was still good
Hollywood wants to serve chicken nuggets and ketchup because it's much easier and cheaper.
"They're controlled, rational, and measured; arguing their points effectively and not simply shouting over each other." I don't think it's just movies that have lost this.
Good point. I guess the films are just depicting people as there are these days (at least, the kind of people writing them)
Nowadays I talk to children who are more adult than the adults. And it's only getting worse, at least in America.
I guess it shows the impact of media on society
That's what happens when Stoicism is demonized.
@@GodOfOrphans stoicism isnt being demonized toxicity is :/. also its important to note that these franchise's stay safe to retain their core audience as opposed to getting a newer younger following. most older types of shows arent as appealing to younger people in the wake of newer, more modern ones, which isnt to say old franchises dont try to appeal to a younger audience they just fail at it.
Case in point: I teach resident physicians and prepare them for a board exam. Last year, I was reviewing teaching cases with a resident, and I told her that I thought she needed to study harder, or she wouldn't be ready for her board exam. She complained to the department chair, and I was chastised for being hard on her. A few months later, she failed her board exam, and then complained that it was because her teachers failed to adequately prepare her.
Geezus! It's always someone else's fault. The level of entitlement these days is astounding. People act like they're owed something in every aspect of their lives.
I'm surprised they didn't just make the test easier. Or outright give her the answers.
@@sakhalnakhash1123 Multiple-choice questions are ALMOST as bad.
@@jasona.p.455 Along with giving out "participation trophies".
@@davidharrison7014 Especially when three out of four of the options seem to be joke answers. It's rather telling which answer is the correct one, even if you didn't study the material. "If you see a pedestrian crossing the road in front of your car do you: A: Speed up to hopefully get around them. B: Deliberately run them down. C: Stop and let them cross even though they are jaywalking. D: Carelessly veer into a nearby street lamp or telephone pole." And many people would still struggle with it.
I was raised on the original Star Trek series, I own all the movies and the STNG series. The characters were all well developed, story lines were logical an easy to follow. These were forms of entertainment that did that in spades and taught the occasional life lesson. I can't recall the last movie I bought anymore.... it's been at least 10 years I know.
" The characters were all well developed, story lines were logical an easy to follow" ......Really? .....Originally known simply as "Sulu", his first name, "Hikaru", appeared in a 1981 novel well over a decade after the original series had ended
DS9 was the only Star Trek to have character development and then they bottled one of the best friendships in trek history
Me too, with the one exception I can think of, the James Bond films are entertaining.
@@russcattell955i James Bond films haven't been consistently entertaining since the late 80s; the 90s had a good one, the 00s had a great one, and that's about it (many love "Skyfall", I don't).
@@mossiegalvin8269 Spock's surname didn't appear until a 1982 novel. Now what?
It is genuinely fascinating how old bad movies manage to be better than bad movies today.
Kirk wavering and breaking stride as he gives Spock's eulogy is more impactful and grief stricken than anyone bawling and weeping. Actors and directors have forgotten how to be subtle.
He was doing his level best to give Commander Spock the professional eulogy he had earned out of respect, friendship, and duty.
Not to mention some truly godlike acting from Shatner. That mid-sentence abrupt stop just screamed contained emotions.
@@Orangeman2345 Oh it's magnificent acting and should shut anyone up who says Shatner can't act. When he's given proper direction he's amazing.
Another great example is in the TNG episode where Spock learns how his father felt for him by mind-melding with Picard who had previously melded with Sarek. Spock's response, masterfully performed by Mr. Nemoy, is subtle yet powerful.
Think of so many similar moments. - Kat dying of radiation after saving a civilian ship in Galactica; they posthumously promoted her to CAG as their tribute to her. - Dakar in DS9 being gunned down leading the final attach to capture the Founder and saving what was left of Cardassia. They didn't cry or have an emotional out burst, they obeyed his final orders and charged the Command Centre and captured the Founder helping to finally end the war.
I agree with what Anthony Mackie said a few years ago: "we make movies for 16 year olds and China".
I've shared that video where he says that a few times. It's great. He calls them out in that video. Also, what he said, is the reason I pay little attention anymore to modern films and have embraced films of the past (mainly stuff from the '70s, '80s & '90s) Those films are just better made. Movies today feel too shallow.
@@filmfacet I've felt that way since late elementary.
And then he suddenly stopped being cast for anything outside MCU..... funny, that
I can't like this because it's on 69 and I'm mentally 12 but yes, Mackie was spot on.
@@AntarcticMagpie its a price if u speak out loud in the movie industry , u know wht they said "dont bite the hands that feed u" im sure he had a good intention but sure did the other didnt feel the same
Movies, TV, and video are the biggest examples, but I have also noticed the same trend in Anime in the last 10 years. Almost every month it seems the same story comes out with a fresh coat of paint. The MC is an ordinary person who is either overworked or bullied in our world, and just because they want to, they get whisked to another world where with little explanation they suddenly become powerful, attractive, popular, and often have no flaws. There is no hero's journey, no real obstacle to overcome, no personal sacrifice besides the initial plot-driving catastrophe. So many modern anime stories are just Mary-Sue power fantasies, where the MC is a shameless self-insert of the writer's idealized personality. In our world they are practically invisible, or unappreciated for their efforts. In this "other" world, they become something akin to an invincible God, perfect in every way by virtue of existing. Modern writing is about as deep as week-old puddle in the Sahara.
That's a genre known as isekai, and that premise is pretty common in that genre. If u want a better written story, then maybe look for a different genre.
Granted, there are very good isekais as well, you just have to look
Y know I’m starting to more and more see movies in depth and appreciate the slow paced masterpieces. The drinker is a wonderful guide.
When I was stationed aboard a ship, my skipper was always in control. He had to be because he had 180 souls under his command that he was responsible for. He always had emotional control over himself, and by extension everyone on the bridge. If someone fucked up he didn’t freak out. He would correct the mistake immediately and then teach why it was a mistake. I’d follow him any day because he was an excellent leader and man.
It's always incredible when the commanders and SNCO's are professionals.
I don't remember seeing you or your captain on any episodes of Star Trek 🤔
@@niallmackenzie99 wom wom wom wom..... lolz that's just like what I'd comment
The Horatio Hornblower leadership model (which Roddenberry deliberately used for _Star Trek_ ).
@@EricDaMAJ great movies
"Because that's how grown fucking men deal with things." Sadly, not anymore.
Its a race to the bottom for money now.
@@rogersmith7396 Sure looks like it. Screw character development and a coherent plot...even though those are what actually keep folks paying.
What roll models do young men have these days? All you see today is pansies and failures.
@@RS-ls7mm Especially considering anyone who steps slightly out of line in their opinion gets cancelled and removed from history.
@@RS-ls7mm As a millennial myself, not much at all these days I'm afraid. Young men either see fake role models, bluepilled yes-men or their favorite social media influencer. Nobody these days in general want to look up to successful men from old history.
@9:01 I am so glad you included this scene as it is an excellent example of being a good strong commander while still being able to to have a friendship with your subordinate officers. Data simply learnt this from Picard. You can almost see Picard talking instead of Data in this scene.
'...which is fine if your idea of entertainment is eating Play-Doh and farting in the bathtub.....' I laughed at that WAY TOO HARD 🤣.
There's an interview with Shatner (on the bluray I think), where he talks about how hard he worked to nail that "let them die" scene. He didn't agree with it and didnt think it was something Kirk would say. He agreed to do the scene as long as the moment the says it, he realises what he says and you see him give a physical expression to show that he regretted it. I think that little gesture is still in the scene, but Shatner was not happy with the way Nicholas Meyer edited it, to separate the "let them die" and the gesture of regret, by cutting ro Spock. He felt that you NEEDED to see the gesture in the same shot to emphasise how it was a "shit, I shouldn't have said that" moment. Can you imagine ANYONE from Discovery putting that much thought or care in to their characters' scenes?
what's really sad is that from the interviews I saw, Shatner/Patrick Stewart don't seem to "get" the character/show's phylosophy that they've been playing for many years, for example Shatner was all about adding the mention of (the christian ) god to one of the movies, and Patrick Stewart thought that the new Picard show was amazing. Seems only the scriptwiters for the original shows really "got it.'
I have seen every episode of Discovery. I cannot remember a single characters name. Says everything really.
Discovery writers: The scene needed more 'splosions and Kirk and that elf guy should have kissed.
@@yuriythebest most actors are empty vessels living inside a bubble.
I tapped out of Discovery into the middle of the season. i was done. I knew it was going to be an SJW shit show. Plz. I hope you tapped out earlier than I
That one scene where Kirk got choked up had more emotional impact than entire series' produced today. Literally made me tear up.
Does that to me too. Every time. Even got this guy at one point. kzhead.info/sun/hdKBkrJ-kaJsZIU/bejne.html
Literally never watched a single episode of Star Trek so I have 0 investment or interest in any of those characters, but even I felt his profound grief.
@@corruptangel6793 Same
I dont consider any of the new stuff as star trek. its fan fiction. jj ruined star trek and star wars for me. he did the same thing to both. hyper active morons running around saying and doing stupid stuff. picard was destroyed in his show and discovery was awful. cudnt even finish it but TNG i can watch over and over again.
@@corruptangel6793 same
Thanks so much for articulating effectively, what I have been thinking for so long. I've given up on new movies and most new TV series. Every time I give them a try, doing my best to keep an open mind, I always cringe when the characters start talking to each other, and think: "Who the fuck actually talks like this?" Every time I left the theater, I felt profoundly disappointed by what I just watched. I finally gave up--and that was years ago. There are only a few movies here and there I find are well done (we see them on DVD), and they are rarely the big money makers. I used to think it was just generational--but I'm running in to young people also, who make the same observations. And this goes for not just movies and TV, but for music as well. It's all crap.
And yet, when we watched TNG, I always thought, I wished people always talked like that. Intense curiosity, mutual respect amidst disagreement.
Fantastic series. You are hitting right on the head something my family often talks about. My mom and I are aficionados of old (golden age of Hollywood) movies and have often discussed why modern movies are just worms compared to them. We came to the conclusion that they are: 1)written by young people who sit around tables high on pot eating pizza and have no idea what life is and how it really works and what consequences are for hard-working people throughout life and what happens to them- and 2) They seem to make their movies backward - as in, instead of saying, "Let's create an important idea, plot, storyline, theme that carries through, and write a coherent story that makes sense from A to Z." THEN fleshing out with good production values and supporting cast and acting - they start with, "Let's do some great crazy CGI with ALIENS! And TREES! And ALIEN HEADS EXPLODING! "And we can get Scarlet Johanssen and Kurt Russell! Now, let's write a movie around it with THIS budget and make it RED AND GOLD this time and talk about TRANS people and evil corporations because there was a trans story last week - it's the victim story of the week... and everyone hates corporations we are all socialists, right?" And if that isn't how they do it, it certainly looks like it. And there doesn't seem to be a single adult in the room to say, "This is a juvenile pot party mess" when they deliver it.
So, do you suspect that no one could make something like Anatomy Of A Murder today?
@@billolsen4360 I suspect the will isn't there, unless the POV is a current woke fad. But you are right, people today seem to be very uneducated in foundational arts and truths of the past. Everything they write seems to not make sense.
nahh umm potheads will rigjt a better story than some old drunkies in hollywood 😂😂😂
@@johnlaken4351 Same difference. Only they don't know it. they both think they are brilliant.
Trans individual here. I feel like i should be insulted.
When Roddenberry created Kirk and the other characters was during NASA's golden age, where the real life astronauts were absolutely cool through any emergency and all the middle aged people had been through WWII and had personally dealt with high danger, high stress scenarios and how to act in a military hierarchy.
Now we have writer is filled with thier onw political agenda
Not to mention all the Americans who lived through the hardships of the Great Depression.
Huh, based on real life events and experience huh?
Yep, and Roddenberry had served in the Air Force in WW2 (flying 89 combat missions according to Wikipedia) so he knew about things such as courage under fire, rank and discipline, etc., from first-hand experience ... something the writers and creators of Star Trek Discovery cannot claim, which is probably the main reason why things like the crew behavior in STD ring so utterly false. STD also seemed to forget that even the greenest (and I mean experience not skin!) crew-members would've done *years* of study and training at Starfleet Academy before setting foot on a starship. If they'd exhibited that kind of childish, insubordinate, fighty behavior in the Academy then they would never have graduated, let alone been assigned to a flagship.
Despite all the troubles that the Apollo 13 spacecraft went through, everyone at NASA and the crew of the Apollo 13 were calm, reserved, and focused.
Not just movies, it's everything these days, maturity and thoughtfulness have pretty much disappeared from everyday life.
I hate this "modern movies" phrase, first box office/big budget movies are not the only movies, there is shyt tons of great movies that are coming out that "KZhead movie critics" don't even care to cover, and also it's so self centric, European and Asian cinema is doing fine, Hollywood is not the world.
@@hicham12ful Nigeria produces way more movies per year than both Hollywood and Bollywood combined.
Spot on there. There are certainly some KZhead critics that actually do review various types of Cinema outside of mainstream Hollywood but nearly all them of them generate a significanty low number of views and subscribers which is just sad. Like for example one of my favourite critics on the platform has less than 30k subscribers and only averages a few thousand views and has been on the platform for over a decade. Akira Kurosawa, Hong Kong Cinema, French New Wave, Italian Neorealism, German Expressionism, Old Hollywood, Silent Era, Ingmar Bergman, Andrei Tarkovsky, Federico Fellini, David Lynch, every Kubrick film aside from The Shining and Full Metal Jacket, Alfred Hitchcock, etc all only get attention through video essays and discussions on the platform. Remember Jeremy Jahns just two years ago outright refusing to watch Parasite just because it had subtitles that he would have to read. Then he finally watched it after it won Best Picture. Like wtf. What kind of cinephile isn't open to foreign cinema just because you have read the subtitles which may not always be easy and certainly becomes quite tedious admittedly but you push through it anyway because most of the time its a very rewarding experience as I personally found with films like Amelie, Seven Samurai, Andrei Rublev, The 400 Blows and Bicycle Thieves. That's why I like Chris Stuckman far more. He at least makes a conservative attempt to review movies most of his own audience wouldn't be familiar with like Angel's Egg, Paprika, Perfect Blue, 12 Angry Men, Seven Samurai, Drive, etc from time to time. Also Jahn's for some reason just outright hates art house films. Again wtf.
@@hicham12ful I agree, plenty of good movies still come out. And plenty of garbage movies came out "back in the day" but we've forgotten them because they were trash.
We've regressed. I think it's because we haven't had any serious social upheavals like we would once have to deal with. Major world wars and economic collapse. Times have been good, which make people soft and weak, where the little things that would never have bothered people before because there were much more serious issues are now all that exist.
Insightful and true. Movies should challenge the young and immature with adult ideas that make them think and grow, intellectually and emotionally - that's what art is. That's how literature and serious film enlighten us. They should not pander to children and the fringe ideological factions of any group.
Do not agree, movies are aiming to keep people stupid, to suppress their ability to think critically. No government in the world is interested in intelligent population, smart people are dangerous, especially when there are quite many of them.
The problem is social media. Holywood tries to appeal to a primarily teenage audience (hence why most movies have gone from an 18+ rating to a 16+ rating) simply because of the fact that teenagers handle social media and create hype around things so a movie that appeals to that audience will spread hype like wildfire and if you throw flashy things, fights and grunts (primarily what teenagers relate to) it means, they will make more money at the box office. Tip: Switch to European cinema. It still upholds everything we like about old movies. Europe has produced some masterpieces in the last years, specially French, German, Spanish and the ones from Nordic countries.
Thats what I noticed. Everyone here in America loves the living shit out of Christopher Nolan. Same with directors such as Denis Villaneuve whos Canadian. Its also why we consume a shit ton of anime statistically. Kids dont like having their intelligence insulted.
And then you have Lanthimos...
I am 48 now and when I was watching this old Star Trek movie - as a kid - I was much more moved by the way the characters dealt with things. Nowadays it's just screaming. Literally everywhere. Even on the Social Media... I wonder why..?
It’s a good observation, my daughter is 7 years old and she watches this KZhead channel called, “Funneh”. My god- every 3 minutes someone just screams for no reason. I don’t understand what type of reaction they want from their audience… I mean they could be making food and someone will start screaming because they dropped a carrot on the table. It really is a bizarre part of modern culture!
Yes, it's astounding how even movies for kids were so much more true back in the day.
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Was watching a horror movie made a few years ago. Christ...the amount of hysterical (rather than terrified) screaming was beyond annoying. More and more I'm watching shows from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Good writing is now a rare occurrence.
They want controllable, emotionally volatile imbeciles. You'll own nothing and you'll be happy about it.
I feel like another aspect of the infantilization of entertainment is that there seems to be an increasing demand that everybody in the audience "gets" every single aspect of the film. Old Trek was full of literary references and allusions, many of which I missed when I watched for the first time. It was rewarding to come back later and appreciate the films more the second time around. Futurama is another good example - there were some jokes that I didn't understand until after I finished a math degree, for crying out loud. Writers/directors seem increasingly worried that they'll offend their audiences by making them feel stupid. But every time I've recognized that there was something I didn't understand in a film/TV show, it became an opportunity for me to learn about something new.
I remember Futurama referencing TOS Amok Time episode in a passing shot (showing the weapons). How many people in the early 2000s remember TOS well enough to get that reference?
Exactly. I watched Red Dragon when I was 15 and English is not my mother tongue. I watched it 4 times to fully understand it. But I never did I feel any resentment for it. Rather I enjoyed my effort to understand it.
God forbid a movie or a show be thought provoking and lead to discussion. Discussion would lead to disagreements and that would be toxic, we can't have that, everyone needs to be nice and agreeable. Also RIP Star Trek (1966-2005).
I cursed my friends with this knowledge while we were watching modern Doctor Who, and it happens everywhere. You basically end up noticing that both jokes and plot points will be delivered in stages. First they give you the information you need to make the plot connection or put a punchline in your head, and everyone who's actually engaging their brain gets satisfaction from that. Then they'll say something else, something that just plainly re-states or explains the plot point or says the punchline again, for everyone who didn't get it when it was delivered the first time.
@@SeigaSeigas Right. Hollywood, like many western companies who follow Twitter, thinks that people want things spelled out. Treat the audience like they have a brain. Don't insult their intelligence.
I think it has to do with where our writers are coming from. Scifi authors back in the day, like Bradbury and Niven, were scientists first and writers second, because they dreamed of a world they hoped to one day see, and only wanted to show others their vision. But nowadays, the writers are there to be writers. They studied writing, practice writing, and ape writing, and so are basically just writing fanfics, and we all know how that goes. Larry Niven put it well; many authors want to *have written* not to *write*. When you love writing, you put your heart and soul into it. When you love having written, you put in the lowest-quality, half-assed job you can get away with, and shove it out as quickly as possible to better inflate your ego.
Essentially it’s better to love the process and not just the end product. I totally agree.
@demiserofd The authors you mention here are exactly why it's called 'hard' science fiction. Which is the only thing I'll read. It has to be plausible. I remember Robert Heinlein stating that he spent 3 days calculating Silacci empiricals for one line in a story. There's a reason he's called the Grand master. I wrote him while in college when I was about to cover the third launch of the Space Shuttle. I was hoping to meet him there, and his wife sent me back a lovely reply. Bet that's rare today as well.
I couldn't find the right words or comparison describing the problems that brought the modern movies to what we have now. You have successfully did it. Thank you
As a child, I liked the old Star Trek movies and TV shows precisely because they were about confident, competent adults. Children need positive role models they can aspire to emulate. Don't give children everything they want - give them what they need.
Very wise words - I too enjoyed the comradery and respect the functioning crew had on the old Start Trek..... watch or trying to watch Star Trek Discovery today just makes me want to vomit - where the old star trek had subtle ways of gender empowerment and diversity (Love Captain Janeway) ... star trek discovery goes out of its way to let you know that woman are the only ones fit to be leaders... gay couples and trans people are the only intelligent people on the ship.... it's not that I do not have respect for gender diversity its that the way it was presented in Discovery is just vomit-inducing.
Hey hey, let's keep it real. As a child you watched star trek for the same reason we did, laser guns , space ships, a guy with pointed ears, and if you were a teen male a chance to see hoorah sitting in that chair.... Ahem.. but yes you bring out a good point I agree
@@Teknokill-jm2ub I watched the original Star Trek reruns with my dad as a child. It was cool but kinda bored me a bit. I’m in my 40’s. Nowadays I love watching the old shows again. I never sexualized the characters as a child. But some of those outfits now as an adult definitely catch my attn.
@@Teknokill-jm2ub Fair point. I was fascinated by the tech as a young lad. But, as you know, the moral lessons were there and leave an imprint later in life even if not fully recognized at first. Its like when parents tell kids the right way... the kid wont get it at first, but we sure wouldnt want a lack of such parents. With modern trek, "the inmates are running the asylum".
@@leonardceres9061 yep😁
“They’re written by children” Now that’s just insulting all the children that can make up a better story.
ikr im fucking 15 and could write a better star wars than these mfs
Not sure i agree with the title or him completely on this particular vid.
It all starts from having faith in children, something that not all ”adults” may be capable of.
Axe Cop was written by a child and it was great.
As a writer, I'm saving this video in my special Playlist. Solid critical advice that must be remembered.
The commentary on this video is spot on. Let me subscribe (or don't, you can't stop me anyway).😂
The word I didn't hear is "earned". Good writing has characters earn their shit. For the new breed of writers it's all about rewarding their characters' personality. "You're super awesome so here's your super awesome powers and such!" Infantile is the correct word.
Ahem... participation awards.
@@matthewbowen5841 a participation award is for the lesser characters who everyone hates. these characters are popular and cool. but once they become that they get everything handed to them. thats the issue. back in the day even the cool popular characters always had to work hard for things.
Unless it is a clear power fantasy. The problem is that some writers aren't good at distinguishing between charecterization and having an audience proxy for thrills.
A sign of the times. Generation Z’s like myself are characterized by the need for instant gratification. Most teens these days won’t want to see characters earning shit because that would go against everything they see on social media all day everyday and probably by some circles in their lives.
e.g. the difference between Luke and Rey. One has a long, difficult path to greatness and yet still has flaws and struggles with their power and role...the other magically gains their powers, encounters nothing they can't easily handle, and has 0 flaws. Written by children.
The Last Jedi is one of the biggest prime examples of adults acting like children in a very dire situation.
Disney-fied
The only character that remotely interested me was the Dreadnought Captain who seemed to be the only sane man in the movie. I legitimately wish he had survived the opening battle.
I'll have to take your word for it as I only managed 15 minutes before turning it off.
@@lordfrostwind3151 Fun fact - his name is Captain Kennedy. Just to think about it...
They fly now??!!! Don’t correct me. I know that line is from The Risible Skywalker. My boys needed me to drive them to the cinema to watch that bollox
exceptionally well-put. when the content is catered towards protected kids in bubbles who have never faced hardships and adversaries in their daily traversals, its hard to imagine "money" can be made from thought-provoking, deep, composed and stoically confident characters and writing. back in the days i'd love to hit the movies with the boys for an absolute good time but its been years that ive completely stopped watching movies now. i refer nowadays more to video games and fucking alas: the trend follows in most video games today as well :D that's why i'm still stuck with witcher 3 and red dead redemption 2 when it comes to open world experiences, where everything hits just right on these matters. there are many other games doing it well too, both triple A and indie, but it all just goes to the point that u definitely said the right things about "modern movies" build for "modern audiences".. god i hate the word now
Imagine what Starfleet Academy must look like in the rotten Kelvin timeline. George Kirk‘s death must have had greater ripple effect than just the loss of one officer‘s life.
I've always liked that scene in Star Trek: The Next Generation between Data and Worf. Data, a non-emotional android, laying down the law to a rather insubordinate crew member in a very professional manner. And Worf, a normally rather temperamental guy, keeping his temper in check when being reprimanded by his superior and admitting their disagreement was his fault. Both apologize and acknowledge that they're still cool and go back to the matter at hand. They had a difficult moment in their professional lives but didn't let that end their personal friendship. A really great scene indeed made even better since it involved my two favorite characters in the series.
Ironically Riker didn't fare as well in Chain of Command two-parter when Captain Jellicoe took briefly command of the Enterprise. Riker continually undermined his commanding officer just because he didn't like Jellicoes command style, and acted like an ass. I lost all respect for the character after that.
I knew exactly the scene you were talking about. Great scene.
I like that scene too Data counseling and correcting. Same thing in a ST Voyager episode where Choktay counseled and corrected Tom Pàris
I also liked how Worf was given the chance to defend himself and for Data to explain why that defence didn't work as a First Officer, which helped give insight to how Worf was thinking. It just seemed like a case of Worf not taking to the role of First Officer too well initially, which is understandable, since he was just thrust into the role from a security officer for the first time, and if I remember the episode correctly, he does a better job towards the end. Also helps the viewers learn a bit more about the roles in a Federation Starship too. A modern take would have likely just have Data speaking over and humiliating Worf.
@@mikavirtanen7029 True. That was one of the few times when TNG writing wasn't that good as it could have been. Especially as Riker is essentially right to question Jellico, but doesn't argue his points. They are in a crisis situation that could grow into a war. The crew already has to work with an unfamiliar captain and Jellico changes the shifts and other stuff. Especially the shift change is something I question in that situation. When there is the possibility of an armed conflict, you don't change the routine without good reason. That can cost seconds, even minutes of reaction time which could become a risk for the entire ship.
In the past children at play pretended to be adults and they found their way in the world partially because of this type of play, while todays adults pretend they're children and refuse to grow up no matter what.
Underrated comment. Stay strong you'll make it of Jersey some day lol.
You have the insanity that is today's advertising to thank for a lot of that. Men have to look 35 and act like 25. Women have to look 25 and act 18, no matter whether you're younger or older. It makes everyone look like a fool. Also everyone has to be happy and dialled up to 180 at all times. It's ridiculous, and Hollywood is equally happy recipient and willing propagator of this development.
Eh, I unfortunately literally am a forever kid mentally in some ways because of my congenital brain issues. I still have met too damn many 50+ years old men and women who were far less emotionally mature than me, and most of them were considered "mature" and "adult" just because they had hard jobs and a ton of responsibility. But somehow their behavior and in some cases even bullying magically wasn't considered childish. My idols growing up were fictional characters like MacGyver, Spock, and so on. People who assessed and responded instead of giving knee-jerk threatened reactions. Someone as developmentally damaged as me still considering it the bad kind of childish when adults react like emotionally fragile angry children when their ego gets hurt or threatened, is a sign of how badly off those "mature" "adults" are doing, and they absolutely are nothing new. You just were lucky to not be around people like that, nor hear many stories from the past by people 60+ years older than you. Especially things like divorce was uncommon in the past, but that absolutely was not a good thing. That lead to many beaten wives, poisoned husbands, ptsd for their kids, and a lot more. Similarly, genuinely mature adults were not as much the norm in the past as we wish they were.
We are a generation of people raised by single mothers. What else could we expect?
@@Call-me-Al Yeah, I really think that people talking about how adults are always controlled and respectful, really haven't talked to many people
Discipline and professionalism! When I was in the real life Navy I was assigned a task. In the heart of getting it done, my Chief took me off that task to do something menial that I didn’t think mattered. I expressed my discontent right then and there in an immature manner in front of my Chief, another Chief in our same shop, and the First Class that happened to also be my mentor. Oh trust me, I received some on the spot mentoring in that moment. We were the only four in the room. So, there was no inappropriate tearing me down in front of my peers or subordinates. There was also no yelling, or immature behavior on the part of that First Class. Nor did either Chief say a thing. It was exactly as the Chain-of-Command is supposed to work in a professional environment. I was informed, in no uncertain terms, that questioning my Chief’s authority or priorities in an immature manner would not be tolerated. If I had a legitimate different idea I could express it, and then be told which one to do. And, I was not treated as a child, therefore, would never behave as one. When he was done, I apologized to the room of people, and specifically to my Chief, before leaving to do as I was told without further complaint. I still abide by that lesson as a civilian because it is how adults behave!
It's fitting you showed that Army recruiting cartoon. I had a sudden realization watching that as you were making your point... we live in a cartoon world now. Everything is a cartoon of what it used to be. Remember the commercials for "the few, the proud, the Marines!" and "Be all you can be" and "We do more before 8 am than most folks do all day"... Back then it was about encouraging young people to join the military to be all they could be, develop their talents and abilities and learn new skills and advance as far as their determination and talent would allow. Now it's just a cartoon of that... about looking good instead of being good... about talking about honor and duty while doing whatever is convenient or whatever one is ordered to do by the cartoon characters leading the military and the country. The only way you can advance beyond certain levels is to be willing to lie your @ss off and show that you have NO honor because of it, to serve the politicians and their needs and their interpretation of the role you're supposed to play. Our entire society now has devolved to this point, where it's all about LOOKING good without BEING good. And we wonder why our country is collapsing, as well as those foolish enough to follow us...
I miss the days when Star Trek dealt with Science Fiction concepts. Now it's just a soap with a futuristic setting.
I miss the days when "Star Trek" was the "smart" show, and not the "We Have a Helluva FX Budget" program. ("Lower Decks," however, is a good giggle.)
WOKE soap
@@Avindair Lower decks would be better if it was a parody of old Star Trek meant to poke a little fun at it, and not a cannon show set in the actual universe
TOS tackled controversial then-current conflicts that people were fighting over. Even then it was hated by the Right for its "moral relativism". If any show tried that now - criticising the precious myths we tell about our societies; questioning whether our values are universal, or should be; suggesting that the self-assurance of decent, ethical people is sometimes dangerous - there'd be a bloodbath. We don't see any of the sort of courageous TV we used to get anymore (Twilight Zone, All in the Family, M*A*S*H* - even many of the sketches on SNL and Carol Burnett) for that reason. They won't even go near a relevant point.
@@RobMacKendrick You are asserting that modern entertainment is constrained by the concerns of the “right”? That is a bold statement, and one I feel confident that does not stand up to reasonable examination. Even you argue that Star Trek was criticized when it was first produced, and became an extremely successful and culturally relevant franchise anyway.
Another good example is Tyrion from GoT HBO series. He was a clever and intelligent character in the books and that translated well in the series. Once the source material ended, you could see the decline and degradation of this once smart and clever character.
and Varys, and Little Finger, and Jon, and...how the best show I ever watched, became unfit for the CW network still boils my blood.
Hahaha varys you have no coqq
and to emphasize your point, the dividing line was *so* extreme. you could literally picture the writers sitting in a room all stroking each other over how "clever" they were being. absolute garbage and an unfortunate stain on George R.R. Martin's legacy.
The removal of the “Truth about Tysha” from the book, is what ruined Tyrion’s character arc.
Honestly I thought everyone was going to be prepared for that kind of let down. I was. It really started by season 4 I believe where they started to change source material here and there. Season 1 and 2 was the best book to film/series adaptation I’ve ever seen. Kept to source material and the show exploded.
They're written by narcissists that think and write like children. That's because the film producing companies have staffs that think that _"all our viewers are narcissists with brains like children, we must hire people that are experts in thinking like children."_
When you live in California, that mentality starts to make a whole lot more sense honestly.
@@honkhonk8009i don't live in California, can you please explain?
“Movies for children written by children” sums contemporary Hollywood writing up,perfectly.
As an (old) vet who was in charge of an ICBM for 5 years, I especially appreciate your breakdown of command and responsibility in the military. You are spot on about the realities and eloquent about the modern movie (mis)representation of the same. I used to love watching movies, and can no longer because of the precise reasons you present. I raise a whiskey snifter as a toast to your work
Luckily we will always have a massive treasure trove of old movies to que up when we want. I love watching the classic films more now, even if the special effects have aged terribly. It's just nice to see some serious stoic acting from the old greats and watch movies with well thought out plots. I'll take a slow, better old movie than compared to the distracting horror show of modern movies with endless action and high level special effects that have poor acting talent just screaming all the time.
@@eliasadam2345 I think current CGI will age worse and quicker than anything before
Good job at any time you could have singlehandly started the end of man.
@@eliasadam2345 Keep hard copies of great shows and films as some end up being taken down eventually on streaming services and some are even censored in parts too.
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 is this a joke? modern CGI these days if done right you cant even tell its CGI take for example a lot of marvel movies these days you would be suprised how much of it is CGI its not just the suits super powers and generic badguys its literally the entire set everything is CGI apart from the actors in many marvel movie scenes a lot of movies these days even CGI in fake extra's to the background or cgi in stuff on tables etc theres way more CGI in movies than you would think and thats mainly due to how its much easier to CGI a mug in than to reshoot the entire scene just to put a mug there
I consider myself a relatively "old school" Trekkie, and I've enjoyed most of the iterations of the genre, including the most recent movies (Chris Pine, et al.). That being said, I found this to be a wonderful contrasting piece that really highlighted the differences in, for me, a very telling way. Good stuff!
SEASON GREETINGS 🎄 CONTACT ME FOR YOUR REWARD 🏆📦...
Iv watched wrath of Kahn a hundred times since i was a kid .and those 2 scenes still make bawl like a frickken baby. It just got me again ! Incredibly moving scenes
The tiny little "no" Kirk says as he slumps to the floor after Spock's death in Wrath of Khan still gives me goose bumps. It's so quiet but says absolutely everything.
And Kirk was going to charge in to save him but had to be restrained to keep from dying too.
the whole film gives me chills. It's incredible.
I've been rewatching a lot of the old Star Trek movies lately, some of them are on KZhead movies for free. And damnit those are some rock solid movies, all of them. Well written, well acted, with a message that goes beneath the central plot. You actually care about the characters and they don't feel necessary to remind you who they are every scene, because they respect the viewer enough to know that you already know who they are. And they seamlessly blend humor in too, without having any clunky shift from serious to "this is funny now", it just flows along with the strong character development. At the risk of sounding like a boomer, "they don't make em like they used to".
The scene with his son talking about facing death. It is priceless
I saw Wrath of Khan when it first came out in theaters having not heard about Spock's death. It was heart-wrenching moment. Even on rewatching WoK today, it still puts a lump in my throat.
It's almost as if if Old Trek portrayed its characters as as actual seasoned military officers. Unlike New Trek that has characters that would have been kicked out of boot camp after a week for being unprofessional.
Believable chain of command. It's the reason I loved Stargate SG1 so much.
@@revolverswitch Hey, cool it with the anti-Semitic remarks.
@@marcusaurelius5149 That's a reach there, bud.
Are you sure they would get kicked out these days? At least in the U.S. certain army ads make me doubt it.
@@bjoernsenp.5664 They would get kicked out of a paintball-bootcamp.
With the limited amount of decent shows on TV, my wife and I finally started watching CSI and CSI:Miami. We're up to season 10 of CSI, which aired in 2010. We just went into an episode where Sara Sidle was stalked and framed by one of the reoccurring villains of the show. All the way until the end, she is keeping her team in the dark, going after the bad guy by herself and putting herself in situations that, at best, gives the bad guy _HUGE_ advantages and, at worst, will land her in jail. All because of childish emotional bullshit. These people are supposed to be a team. They have worked together for up to a decade. And yet, they don't trust their team enough to go straight to them in situations like this, which directly involves the team and the case(s) they are working. I had a REALLY hard time watching it and had a bit of an outburst a couple of times. Yes, I agree, Hollywood (both movies AND TV series) are putting out worse and worse tripe.
Very astute observation of the Dune franchise. Even though it has already had a movie adaptation *and* a TV series on the Scifi Channel, it's an excellent showcase that remakes or reboots can still be done well 😊
In that case, there was a LOT of room for improvement
I had noticed that the quality of entertainment had degraded to the point where I generally don't watch a movie unless I'm bored af. This video explained a lot, thank you.
There are some good independent films worth watching. They may not have the big budget special effects, but they have meaningful stories and decent acting.
Same. Occasionally I'll watch TV shows because they can do more character development, but I usually stick to the older ones.
Yeah, bur TV is not much better...Basically everything feels like a soap nowadays, were the protagonists live out their neuroses however they want, scream at people around them when and however they want, misbehave, disrespect everyone around them etc..especially bad in Series that are supposed to play in a work environment. I always think to myself: wtf are they doing??? I I would behave like that at work more than 3 times, I wouldn't have a job anymore. And then I realise: they behave like highschoolers, not like grown ups. I really fell for all those poor actors....having to play mentally 14 years old, when beeing 50 must be really hard.
@@endlessstudent3512 OMG! Yes! There was once dhow I was watching where the main character was supposed to be a Doctor and she had no emotional maturity or ability to cope with drama whatsoever. Even though she works in an ER. And it is literally her job.
I hear that. I have Prime Video. The 'Original Series' stuff is just about invisible to me. Is going to be predictable, politically woke and/or preachy. I could swear that they suggest content to me knowing it will piss me off. 🤣
Fun Fact - James Montgomery Doohan (aka Scotty) landed at Juno Beach during the D-Day Landings at Normandy in WW2. He was shot 6 times, but survived, although he lost the middle finger on his right hand. Throughout his acting career he was mostly able to hide the missing digit (refer 6:21) but occasionally this showed up on screen. RIP Lieutenant Doohan.
What an absolute amazing man! God bless him!
Wow never knew that. Probably where much of his character's dignity comes from
He was a great guy too. Over 30 years ago, my wife saw him at a star trek convention, and invited him to her groups' pizza party at pizza hut afterwards. He actually showed up to a kid's party and spent the evening telling stories to everyone. He had real class.
His ashes were launched into space, quite well deserved
Alot of those guys acting in, filming, producing, building, lighting etc Star Trek and so many of those classic shows had actually served in the military, often in war, and knew how life on a starship (wild west, deep sea, with spies, etc) should play out, even if played tongue in cheek.
There are so many, many, many scenes from TNG that I will never forget, as long as I live. The Data/Worf scene was phenomenal. I was excited as Discovery appeared, because I didn't like the new ST Movies, as of the things you mentioned. But obviously there are not so many writes that see this too, every other ST series fails, except for "Lower Decks". I'm very sad because of this. If you take a closer look, you will see (or hear), that in almost no scene there is no music. Every second in Discovery is accompanied with music, while in TNG and other "old" series, this is not the case. Music tends to make a scene more intense, and often this effect creates additional tension, but in the Worf/Data Scene the dialogue alone is the thing, that should create my emotions.
I really miss the good old dialogue drama movies with good screenplay that you can actually enjoy. A movie where you need to use your nookie for once. Movies like that are so rare. Most of them give you all on the plate where you are sitting on a chair like a mindless robot.
As a Hollywood professional, I just wanna say… You’re exactly spot on. I endorse this. Well done.
what is a hollywood professional?
@@Pepe-dq2ib the cam guy for brazzers it seems.
@Ninja Arts it seems a couple petulant, snarky children, like those Drinker spoke of, are trying to throw ya some shade. Your Hollywood profession is your business, not these little punks.😆😆😆
@@bungalowlogic7676 They aren't gonna fuck you, dude.
@@bungalowlogic7676 The fact that you edited your comment makes it even worse.
this video was so refreshing to watch. been waiting for someone to point out how childish things have gotten lately, or even just someone to notice it happening at all.
Right?! I just wish someone would tell Hollywood...
It's idiocracy in real time.
@@Hoffmanpack fuck yeah it is. I've often said Idiocracy was a documentary from the future
I think part of that is Hollywood trying to sell a movie to the widest age demographic, but honestly it drives me to other hobbies then watching movies. That and Hollywood bending over backwards to get into the Chinese market gets grotesque.
Please make some more videos mate.
The Data/Worf scene is so good. That's how adults deal with problems in a professional environment. It's highly idealized, but that's the point of Star Trek. It shows what people are capable of if they move past primitive emotions and personal interest.
I was born in 1982 so didn't even see the wrath of khan until maybe 1987ish. It is still my favorite star trek ever and as far as scifi is concerned it was only beaten by 5th element (fun), interstellar (sad/wonderful), and rogue one (dark and THAT scene). wrath of khan remains the undisputed king in ship on ship combat ever made and really captures the vibe that these are large SHIPS in space.
"Is it nice when characters are smart and control their emotions" -- Yes, and frankly, seeing Kylo Ren throw a fit with his light-saber in that first movie that he was in ... his character couldn't recover from that in my eyes. It was an angry child. And some people will defend that writing by saying that he was a Sith, and so given to anger. Yeah... I guess... but when Vader got pissed, he also killed people, but it didn't seem like he lost his temper, he was just angry and vicious.... but not out of control. Point in fact, at one point in the original trilogy, Luke escaped... and Vader just calmed turned on that cat-walk on the Destroyer and calmly strode off. Obviously he was pissed.... but he didn't have a tantrum.
Ironically I think the point of Kylo having temper tantrums was him meaning to be whiny.. like he thought he was big shit when he was just grasping at random info of "dark side" that obviously would of been suppressed They still could written that whole trilogy better by.. maybe keeping the same team for all of them instead of like.. 3 different people in charge...
Ha ha, yes, "I find your lack of faith disturbing," cool and controlled fury, no need for histrionics. People "got" that, even kids.
See, I thought Kylo Ren was *intended* to be a confused, angry kid who envied Vader's power, but lacked his strength. One of the only things I appreciated about those films was that they didn't present Ren as being equal to, or surpassing, his predecessor. Vader is such an iconic villain that any new Star Wars antagonist was bound to feel like an imitation, so I think they just leaned into that and portrayed Ren as an imitator.
He wasn't even pissed when he annihilated all those rebels in that hallway in Rogue One. If anything, he was making a point.
@@BaconNuke "Ironically I think the point of Kylo having temper tantrums was him meaning to be whiny" OK, fine....but why would anyone want a "whiny" villain? You can't be scared or intimidated by someone like that (at least not in the long run).....which is why he was NEVER intimidating. He failed to show that he posed a real threat, and therefore failed as an antagonist.
Thanks, Drinker, this video hit the mark - far beyond the scope of movies.
Absolutely right.
the current state of the western world
Why does the Benny Hill song always make me laugh? lmao
@@steverogers6572 because it's one of the most genius pieces of music ever written for it's purpose
Spot on!
Speaking of writing: I'd love to see a video about your experiences getting published, and part of that, a general how-to for those of us aspiring amateurs (how to secure an agent and/or publisher, editing, publication, etc.)
I think he already made that video on his second channel, titled "How To Get Your Book Published: Three Not-So-Easy Steps"
@@safechemical4463 Thanks.
Shatner is a marvellous actor ❤️👌
😂 😂
For me, hearing this taught me about a little bit more than just movies. I was always dimly aware that something about modern film protagonists was somehow totally insufferable to me, but I couldn't quite place my finger on it. Hearing you put it together so eloquently made me realize not only what was bothering about modern movies, but also part of what was bothering me about myself, and my own social environment. It never occurred to me, until now, that I haven't ever really been shown or told how mature men handle their problems, and at least in part because of that, have never bothered to go out of my way to be a mature man myself. I'm going to be 23 next week. I wish somebody had explained this to me sooner, or I had at least intuited it myself.
You've had a realization about yourself, as well the world around you. You reflected on this, thought it through and came to an insightful conclusion....you're well on your way i'd say, that first step was probably the most difficult. Good luck, being mature sucks. ;)
Watch star trek the original series. Captain Kirk and Spock are role models to a young man.
i'm closing on 30 and still deal with adversity by becoming an emotional mess, alternating between uncontrollable anger and numbing depression. I never had to face any hardships until I was over 20 and I have been convinced for years that is exactly what fucked me up but it`s terribly difficult to express adequately. I see my friends raising kids in an even more sheltered manner than I was and pity the poor children
@@CoqPwner When it comes to kids, we as a society need to learn to strike a balance between protecting the kids and exposing them to the realities of life. I used to be incredibly stressed about a lot of things, and I grewed up in a sheltered conservative life. It was only in suffering the hardships of post-college that I gained knowledge and ability to live a better life.
Maturity tends to be something gained after reflecting on past mistakes Which sadly requires making mistakes in the first place So congratulations, you figured out the first couple parts
It makes perfect sense, what kind of life experience or personal growth can the audience get from a guy with the mind set of a teenager, who never had any life struggle, mommy made his bed and washed dishes for him, or a girl who never had the slightest peril since daddy will change her tires, be her mechanic, handy man, etc. Those kind of whimps will eventually develop whimpy stories.
Thank you ! You have succinctly removed that weight off my back, I literally feel free and my my brain says anything is possible now.
It amazes me how you have managed to put words on a problem that has lurked in the shadows of my mind when watching modern movies. I have not realized it until now, but the movies the majority enjoy are the result of what a generation of people refusing to grow up find entertaining. Thus this is not limited to a comment on movies, but also encompasses the culture and expectations towards becoming an adult.
Basically what I wanted to say, but you said it better than I would have.
@@StratKruzer Well. Had to see this video in order for things to dawn on me, myself.
It's almost as if "Show. Don't tell" doesn't apply anymore. :(
So this is the millennials fault in a way
I think the audience is more mature than the content creators.
Been saying this for years now. Hiring overeducated 22 year old writers with no life experience has sunk movie scripts to new lows. Hail the Drinker for always being on the level.
Hiring overeducated, early 20's people for *anything* that requires emotional maturity or anything beyond one-dimensional thought processes has sunk my entire country to new lows lol
Ok I question the overeducated part. I don't consider Gender Studies an actual education.
@@saps1850 That's the point. That's what passes as "education" and they have way too much of it.
@Shimmy Shai You make a great point, _over_ education is not really the issue, I personally do not believe you can ever reach such a state, I think the problem stems from the indoctrination present within the educational systems that pushes against life education, if every struggle you encounter growing up is out of your control (systemic BS, for instance), where is the incentive to grow and have that growth mould you as you experience the good and the bad that stems from it?. Every aspect of what made those past writers pour their emotion, guile, wit and skill into their screenplays and dialogues, their indirect telling of their own journeys through fiction, has all been supplanted with a modern equivalent, where the biggest threat of the day is feeling offended by a narky reply to your post on Twatter about pronouns you fancy for the day. The problem is not education, the problem is the type of education, the outsourcing of personal growth to an activist posing as a teacher. Possibly... :-D
@@DrWhosmate Agreed education is not the issue. I'm reasonably well educated myself.. However I do believe that life experience is just as important or perhaps more important on the evolution of an individual, especially in regards to a writer.
Thanks for this video. I was totally confused as to what happened to the movie script writing. Makes total sense.
You hit the nail on the head regarding the pacing of new films. They're like amusement park rides.
"His was the most.. human" "Let them die" Tell me Shatner can't act
'Denny Crane'
Shatner absolutely can act, but he's not a very versatile actor and needs a good director. That is to say, he can act, but he's not the best actor of all times by any stretch. Still far and away better than most actors these days, who have only learned to (barely) memorise text.
He just forgot how to act. And has an ego the size of Montana.
"Shatner can't act." He said, like a liar.
The director of Khan explained that with Shatner, each take is better than the last, so to get a great scene you just keep shooting takes.