Mark Blyth. Angrynomics at SCOTONOMICS

Full keynote interview from our Festival of Economics in Dundee on 22nd March.
This was a prerecorded interview we aired on the first evening of our festival.
Mark was invited because of his views (especially on MMT) not despite them.
Enjoy the full interview. Here is the background to the interview and why we are very happy to share it despite his opposing views.
Two weeks ago, Kairin and I interviewed Dundee-born economist Mark Blyth for our opening night keynote presentation at our Festival of Economics. We are both avid consumers of Mark’s books, articles and podcasts.
Being so familiar with Mark, we know his views on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). Mark knew our position, too. So much so that he asked me, 'Are you ok with me shitting in your soup?'. Aye, I said. I want you to come and be our keynote.
We had a very wide-ranging conversation. You can watch the 40-minute video here. During our interview, Mark strongly opposed MMT's prescriptive elements. He said little about MMT's descriptive parts, which are its cornerstone. But nevertheless, he is clearly anti-MMT.
Mark was the ideal guest from the mainstream because he is a dissenter of some neoclassical assumptions, and his economic worldview is within reach of heterodox schools. We did not expect Mark to support our overall vision for a post-independence Scotland.
With this in mind, it is hard to see this as some kind of 'gotcha'. Mark's opposing view of how we construct a prosperous, independent Scotland was exactly what we wanted to hear. It is worth pointing out that this was a pre-recorded session. There is a cut function for those unaware of the video production process, and we could have removed every MMT critical word that Mark spoke. But then, what would have been the point?
In his wonderful book, ‘Contending Perspectives in Economics: A Guide to Contemporary Schools of Thought’, Economist John T Harvey writes, “The development of reliable explanations of economic phenomena requires a pluralistic approach to the development of theory, one in which schools of thought debate openly and vigorously in an atmosphere of mutual respect.” We created this atmosphere at our Festival.
Such is the nature of our 'science' that economists have only opinions when looking into the future. Despite his sizeable brain and vast experience, Mark does not speak God's word. As someone influenced by Hererdox economists, I disagree with much of it.
We believe an MMT lens is essential to create a wellbeing economy in Scotland. However, many people, including most economists who all share Mark’s worldview, do not agree. Our job is to construct a winning argument. You do that by listening and engaging with those who disagree with you.
It must be stressed that Mark clearly supports the same end destination as everyone in our audience and those reading this newsletter. He wants to see a fairer, more prosperous Scotland. However, he does not think that the prescriptive side of MMT applies to Scotland or any nation apart from the USA. We think he is wrong.
Mark has an orthodox understanding of the economy, while I have different assumptions guiding my worldview. But one thing is sure: I would be a fool not to engage, listen, and learn from him. Unfortunately, the toxic reaction to his statements will likely make his interest turn away from Scotland-a shameful outcome for those on this side of the pond.
For many people with an ideological view rather than one arrived at via discourse and reflection, airing an alternative view would seem like madness! This is especially true in the world of internet bubbles, where the idea of engaging with sensible people you disagree with seems like a weakness.
We wanted our audience to be entertained and challenged. Mark is exceptionally good value on both counts. We also wanted to hear his opinion. As I said in the interview, "You have given us much food for thought and will be very useful for us to consider throughout the weekend."
Certain groups and people are not interested in creating an atmosphere where “schools of thought debate openly and vigorously.” Instead, it is all ‘mic drop’, ‘completely destroy’, etc.
MMT is a solidly heterodox idea. It is based on assumptions with which Mark just does not agree.
In addition to criticising MMT, Mark made some other remarks that we would have challenged-had that been an objective for the interview. Instead, we used his words as fuel for our fire. However, owing to the coverage of his remarks, we will provide a detailed response in next week’s newsletter.
Many of the sessions, including Mark’s wonderful keynote, will be available on demand this week. You can purchase a ticket for £30 here.
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