THE ULTIMATE CHEAP, EBAY, AMAZON AMR500 BLOWER TEST. FULL RESULTS-AIRFLOW, TEMP & POWER CONSUMPTION
2023 ж. 21 Қыр.
765 341 Рет қаралды
HOW WELL DOES THE AMR500 BLOWER WORK? WHAT CAN I RUN THE CHEAP AMR500 BLOWER ON? HOW MUCH BOOST WILL THE AMR500 BLOWER MAKE? HOW MUCH POWER CAN THE AMR500 BLOWER MAKE? WHAT HOT DOES THE AMR500 BLOWER RUN? HOW HIGH ARE THE CHARGE TEMPS ON THE AMR500 BLOWER? HOW MUCH POWER DOES IT COST TO DRIVE THE AMR500 BLOWER? HOW CAN I IMPROVE THE FLOW AND POWER OF THE AMR500 BLOWER? CHECK OUT THIS TEST OF THE AMR500 BLOWER WITH A CUSTOM SUPER RICHIE BLOWER DYNO! I MEASURED CHARGE TEMPS, BOOST, AIRFLOW AND THE POWER THAT IT TAKES TO DRIVE THE BLOWER!
I ran an AMR300 supercharger on a fuel injected 420 cc single cylinder Harbor Freight engine with a 1:1 drive ratio. As I recall we got 8 PSi of boost. The 13 hp engine was also ran with the induction pipes disconnected so the blower didn't produce any boost and the little engine had no problem spinning the supercharger up to redline. We discovered a few issues with this type of supercharger, first one was the gear drive inside the supercharger develops a lot of heat and we were able to wick away some of the heat with a water cooled heat sink from a PC. The second issue is the supercharger cannot tolerate any vacuum or negative pressure... like when the engine is at idle. If there is any vacuum, the oil from the gear drive will get past the seals and be consumed by the engine and the gear drive will be sucked dry in a few hours... the solution is to use a bypass or double throttle bodies.
Very nice to see you here RC!! Love* your content and I hope you decide to twin charge the 3 cyl diesel engine 📈
@@budyeddi5814 Twin charge is an option, we first want to try the supercharger and see what happens. should be interesting.
@@robotcantina8957 I'm here for it 📈
Bypass valve works really well from what I understand. that’s the way they do it on the old 3800 sc v6. It’s just a necessary edition for idle quality and in this case blower function
Thanks for sharing. Given that info my small brain can’t comprehend how it could rob approximately 28hp according to the dyno results. The math isn’t working. Lol
Legend has it, Richard never actually goes home. He just goes on to the next test.
Try bigger inlet with stock outlet then the swapping
That's gear head dedication.
He's living the dream
Il bet he has spent many a night there.
Every sub 100hp engine needs two of these.
I was thinking of trying to install one on my 67 hp 4kc Toyota starlet motor
@@619omni itd probably work great
@@619omniat half bar you'd get 90hp with this thing
Listen to those beautiful noises! I now name it The ASMR 500
I see what you did there. 😁😁😁
It is just amazing how much you produce interesting content and how much time and effort it must need to do that. Thank you for doing all this!
thnx
THIS IS A LIE!! DO NOT BUY THIS!! Tese are limited to no more then a engine with LESS THEN 1.5L
it wasnt connected..
@@woodzyfox4735 It was said multiple times in the video that the AMR500 wasn't connected to the motor for an intake, the motor is only there to run the blower.
@@woodzyfox4735;; ;;;
Just an idea, you can pretty easily put an optical RPM meter on the blower pulley and compare the RPM ratio between it and the engine to detect slip without needing to go through the change to cog to rule it out.
What kind of power do you think that airflow would make .
Is it possible that when you run the factory plastic fittings and produce higher discharge temperatures, thus expanding the air so much that it produces more boost than with the larger Richie fittings that produce lower discharge temperatures
@@Bill-flatplanefool1/3 of a 1970' sbc 350 so about 50-60ish tire. Based on cfm carb size guess. If rich had given us a lb/min there would be no room to gess. 1lb/min =10crank and 7wheel hp. Ther was no mention of DA so no start point for math to build a lb/min equation.
just as easy to add some ferrous metal for a tooth and point a hall sensor at it and datalog it on the ecu for comparison.
@@blow0me Drawing a line with a paint pen and using an laser reader that doesn't care about distance is a little easier than adding a tooth and dealing hall sensor alignment.
It blows my mind that this channel isn't massive yet. Been following for years, your content is awesome.
I appreciate that!
Air pressure increases about 2% for every 10°f which could explain why the stock fittings produced more boost. Although the higher boost wouldn't produce more power because the mass flow is lower.
Also there could have been a ton of turbulence coming out of the stock outlet which would reduce flow and increase pressure.
This is exactly my thoughts. The factory outlet is a restriction and the increased temperature will raise boost while it depletes air density causing a negative airflow measurement overall. I'm now thinking about putting one of these on a jeep 4.0
Curious was the pressure decreasing at 5252 rpm with the big manifolds? Another variable the cam duration. 🤔
it wasnt connected.. Also there ment for 1.5L or less motors..
Wow a got a slow tercel might good to adapt that and see what hapeens
Boost was higher with the smaller inlet because it was heated more. Going to take your numbers later and generate a lb/min flow rate graph. Thank you for the great work and wonderful data!
Boost was higher with the smaller inlet because boost is a measurement of restriction.
Grams per second please.
@@Joebauers2505 inlet restriction would not affect boost. outlet restriction would.
@@Marc_Wolfehe lives in the US, find a converter calculator
@@shadowopsairman1583I think he is asking for mass per sec (lb/sec) not a unit conversation, or he would have asked for bar.
I ran one of these on my sweep the floor vw engine and boy did it wake it up! Even at 4 psi it was a huge power increase out of the 1641cc engine. The amr500 is probably the best hp for the money for a vw as long as you can make your own intake adapters like I did although there are a few companies that sell intake kits for these to bolt onto a vw. I've got a few videos of that engine on my channel if you'd like to take a look
I gotta know details on this. I'm looking into getting a vw beetle and that's something I'm interested in
@johnraitt2555 are you wanting to know more about the motor or supercharger setup
@@V8N8T To be honest I wouldn't even know where to start. I'm very new to all of this. About 2 months ago I seen this late 60s/early 70s beetle in amazing condition just sitting in this junkyard out in the woods and I'm gonna try to get it from the landlord. Since then I've been basically studying air-cooled vw beetles, it's been a bit of an obsession lately
@johnraitt2555 that's awesome hopefully you can get it. Vw's are a very basic machine and pretty easy to work on. I'd suggest after you get it go thru the brakes, get the engine running well and the rest of the car sorted out. They are a mechanical car and require maintenance like valve adjustment and brake adjustment from time to time and they are old so parts will need to be replaced here and there. If you have a local vw specialist have them look the car over before you buy it to see how much work it will need
@@V8N8T From my understanding it was restored by somebody local about 4 years ago and when the man passed away there was no surviving family members so it's been sitting ever since. The motor has been wrapped in a tarp, I haven't gotten a good look at it yet. But if it's in as good of a condition as the rest of the beetle seems to be there may not be too much to work on. I do appreciate your kind words, fam
It even sounded better with the bigger inlet and outlet, and the charge temperatures show that it's just the right way to go.
Very cool test, I remember reading about stuff like this from the 60s where they would dyno one engine running off a SC that was powered by another one. That blower is cute! Don't quite have a project small enough for something like that but it looks like it'd be great for something like a motorcycle, my Cruze 1.4L or a Sprint 3 cylinder.
Very cool data! I think the next step would be to add a MAF sensor in your inlet as well as data for the ambient air parameters such that you can account for air density and measure flow in lbs/min like superchargers and turbos typically are. That will be much more able to be correlated to a HP number. Interesting to see pressure drop after the mods, my thought is that IAT being less means the SC is more efficient, and so is pumping larger mass of air through lower pressure due to improved density. You should get one of those banks gauges, his shit is really dialed in on this whole air density situation.
He has everything for DA in and out, pressure and temperature + the bid blue measuring device should have the amibiant data . Just didn't present the nessasary numbers to pull out more practical data like lb/min.
This guy already trying to write a fuel map for it...
The reason you are measuring less pressure with the larger inlets is related to the venturi effect. Although you are pushing more air through the supercharger, you are still using the same funnel where the air intake is and the same restrictor on the exit. The venturi effect is that the pressure decreases as velocity increases. You are flowing more air through the same diameter reductions, and the air pressure at the inlet of the funnel is the same, and the measurement point is the same, so more velocity = lower pressure. If you want a better way to measure it, you should measure the pressure at the entrance to the supercharger (which should be a vacuum at that point) and measure the pressure in your discharge pipe and subtract the two. This will give you the pressure produced by the supercharger only, neglecting the pressure change from the funnel on the input causing the venturi effect.
I came here to say the same. Coming from an aviation background, it was easy to understand what was happening here.
If Gale Banks taught me anything, it's that the boost pressure is probably lower on the higher flow run as a function of air density. Maybe since the blower could breath easier, in and out, it was able to compress the air more efficiently.
Richard you are a blessing to all of us thank you
Put a predator engine on the dyno...😂
Air temp is the reason for the boost difference, the smaller adaptors restricted airflow, it created a much hotter discharge temp so the air mass expanded more and that registered a higher pressure measurement.
Mannn you're the best mate!! No one made a test like this. Have a test car with that blower and this info is MARVELOUS! thanks ! 🙏🏼
Great video. I'm looking forward to the next test.
The AMR500 blower could about perfect fitted to a 350 to 500 CC 4-stroke motorcycle engine!
Kei car too (660 cc max).
That's exactly what I plan on doing! I have a Honda gx500 twin that I'm putting in a drag lawn tractor and I plan on using this setup to feed it
I love this... like really LOVE THIS!!!!!
thank you for making this!. i havent even watched this yet but know I will learn a ton!
Like gale banks says “air density” lower temp air and a little less boost can make more power. That is why the cfm increased
People still think about this wrong all the time. Only thing that matters is mass airflow. Grams per second. Speaking about it in any other way simply muddies the conversation.
Before modifying to a toothed belt try modifying the bracket to adapt two pulleys within the belt route one just above the super charger pulley and one just below the supercharger pulley and route the belt through make sure the fit is real tight between the two pulleys, this will ensure the highest contact patch the ribbed belt has around the supercharger pulley itself this will also nearly eliminate pulley slippage at high revs due to the belt loosing grip as the slack end of the belt.
Add some stripes to your drive belt and use an optical tachometer to measure the belt speed. If you plot it vs engine RPM you'll see if the belt slips or not--the engine RPM and belt speed will be linear when not slipping.
Man, you really do a great job with your videos, they're alway interesting and fun. Keep up the great work!
Great job as usual!
they work for air cooled vws
Great work Richard. Man, I love watching you do stuff hot rod guys like me have always wanted to do.
Then do it!! Let those hot rodding dreams run wild 👍
About time!!!! Thanks!!!
Awesome Information!!!! thanks Richard.
Maybe the higher velocity through the modified in/out created some sort of venturi effect across the port going to the boost sensor giving you a false pressure reading? Also it's hard to be sure but it looks like your bigger inlet has the sides of the square maybe protruding out into the round tube... if that is the case maybe you could get a tad more airflow by either disassembling it and grinding those out or else maybe shape one end of the round tube into a square to match the actual opening a bit better like a round to square transition then weld it to a square hole in the plate. I had no idea these things existed till you posted this and man they are cheap, now I got to figure out how to build something with one.
Love to see the blower content! You should revisit the m90 blower, maybe on a smaller motor like a Honda k series or j series.
Awesome actual testing
Very interesting experiment, TYVM! Love your energy & enthusiasm.
I think some engines that run on poor mixture, I think some skyactiv engine, use the blower to reduce/regulate the air flow and keep the engine in the sweet spot for fuel economy. Cool test.
With your inlet wide open, it’s going to take much more HP to spin it, the smaller inlet will require much less hp, Steve Morris did a good test for that..
Tht was a really cool experiment. I hope you continue testing other blowers just like this.
Dude ,you’re a total stud, I love your attention to detail.
Uhh... 😅
You need to put it on the Pontiac 4 cyl. Also, did you retest the output in the first configuration to make sure to it hadn't warn which would have reduced it's efficiency?
Ecotec or iron duke ? And if ecotec what ecotec specifically?
I think the lower temp made up for the horsepower that would have been lost from the lower amount of boost lower temperature air is more dense which means more horsepower
I love how people always talk about what PSI a supercharger or turbo can output, but completely ignore CFM.
My thought on the difference between flow and boost between inlet and outlet types, making less boost with more flow is that higher flow velocity is naturally lower pressure. So the higher flow number was stacking up less boost - still better for the engine. Steve Brule explains it on Engine Masters better than I can. My estimate is that feeding that 5psi of boost through that engine would make another 132hp(ish) - more than making up for the power draw of the blower
I wonder if you had switched it back to the original smaller inlet and outlets if it would go back to making the same boost. The Amr500 is only rated at 16k rpm so spinning it to 18k might have caused some extra wear and opened up clearances giving less boost.
Looks like need 4 of those cute blowers 😄
This was amazing thank you
Very awsome video!
Awesome content! I would love to see you do this with a 6-71, with a restriction of say, 8 lbs boost by 6000rpm. So many of us street guys run these, would be amazing to see real world numbers on the horsepower draw. Thanks for all your amazing hot rod science!!
Very specific lol
it wasnt connected.. Also there ment for 1.5L or less motors..
What would you run them on? I’m thinking if it would add anything to my small block Chevy lol.
Well, I would not run that on a small block. Because it'd be very restrictive, the only way. If you must use that super charger, you'd have to get it all the way up to A 10:1 ratio on the belt or higher to before even starts to keep up with the air flow demand of the engine. Hence the reason why they ran a 671 super charger on small block engines. Now a small block, Chevrolet with a 671 at 6000 rpm. Aking APS I that's not correct either a you got a lot of bypass Or belt slippage of some kind or the incorrect belt ratio. If you look on wield superchargers chart states 350 with 6/71 at 1:1 make 31psi .
@@woodzyfox4735 2.0l
Have to remember: Your boost pump has same characteristics as wings. Similar restrictions for speed and pressure envelopes as wings. In other words, the compressor can only be spun so fast, and produce so much pressure within a fixed range, or "optimal range". Below and above that speed and pressure, you will see reduced output. OR, as someone else put it, more money = better boost (usually) ;)
good point. Propeller tips when they go supersonic do some inefficient things.
amazing content! you can tell a couple times the belt walking on the pullys. id also suggest fully welding the exit pipe and a good seal around the mounting metal could be losing boost there.
This is awesome. Love seeing the "goofy" stuff properly tested.
Now you need a 3 cyl Geo Metro engine to put it on!
good choice
@@richardholdener1727 Honda D or B series, although B series VTEC might create an issue with the extra airflow when VTEC hits. Even with an Eaton M90 on a GSR motor, the boost dropped 3 psi at VTEC crossover.
@@richardholdener1727 so this thing put out the equivalent of say a china intake port for a sbc head?
The boost was lower due to the lower temperature. At least 1/2 of your boost was the increased air temperature. Your intakes increased the efficiency of the blower. This lowered the air temperature at the same flow rate. This lowered the boost pressure even though you are moving more air.
Pretty well this. It's like going to a bigger turbo. Less boost but more flow.
Love these videos Richard when your doing it😁👍💪
Absolutely smashed that like button 😅
You should test this on various combinations. A ford 300 i6, a 4 cylinder of some sort, obviously the LS.
Im thinking we can see why he chose to measure its output instead of risking perfectly good LS .Your idea makes sense
I'm sure there was some belt slippage. Also, it may have been outside its efficiency island. That said, it made some nice noises. 😎
Amazing work on this! Some things I noticed: Early pulls show the blower belt with alignment wear as evidenced by the white threaded material showing on the edge of the belt 5:53. The blower mounting bracket is being flexed forward under load which you can clearly see at 8:40 if you watch the blower in relation to the engine, letting the blower belt walk on the crank pulley. The belt looks like it rode up onto the outer lip of the crank pulley probably causing slippage (watch the engine crank pulley where the electrical cord in the floor is) you can see the belt was still on the outer lip of the crank pulley when you shut it down. Can't wait for the next video!!
no on the belt slippage caused by deflection. The belt walk was caused by simple misalignment after installation of the new inlet and outlets. I didn't align the belt before tightening the blower in place like I did when it was first assembled
More airflow = Less restriction. you get the same result "Porting" (Open up the outlet triangle to the edges of the silencer holes) a Eaton M90 blower or even a MN112 Boost goes down, outlet air temp goes down and WHP goes up. I don't know if the inlet matters as much as the outlet.
If you open the inlet up on a PD blower-boost goes up and airflow goes up and power goes up (usually)
Still think you should stick it on a 4cyl 2.3l engine
If its work, put this on my car 😂
You used a longer, ribbed hose for the stock outlet, and a shorter, smooth, and curved hose for the super richie outlet. The longer length and more turbulent flow from the ribs might be the reason for the higher boost. While the Super Richie outlet you have a more "laminar" like flow, less restriction, more CFM, = less pressure/boost at the sensor.
Very similar to what a friend did with a Benz M63 blower on a Honda, even spinning it backwards it still made boost and needed a FMIC. It was placed where the AC compressor was, AKSC.
The smaller outlet would restrict it more I bet if you put big inlet with stock outlet boast would go up in my opinion
More flow through a bigger opening is going to give you less pressure…
The higher boost pressure on the restricted nozzle is just from heating (inefficiency). The high flow nozzles are less restrictive and result in less heating of the intake charge, thus lower indicated boost.
Great work BTW.. I'm still putting one on my v twin kohler.. 😁. Danka
I think you were getting more airflow with less boost pressure on the improved intake due to it running more efficiently. Perhaps because the stock inlet was a restriction, causing you too superheat the air, or perhaps due to shape of the inlet (curves instead of right angle edges etc).
Good answer. What about increased or decreased velocity due to the smaller/larger openings? Would it be better to run 1&1? One stock, one larger?
Exactly boost is a number relative to restriction. You can run the same setup on a stock engine and get higher boost, but once you increase the engines flow the boost will decrease, but flow will increase. Boost is a relative factor not an absolute number.
Richard thanks for and this and the icing on the cake is you sending it to Kenny Bell wow super cool A+ 10 and a gold star 🤠.Twin AFR-500`S on the Trophy 4 banger would look cool
Pressure increases with restriction. Lower the restriction and you lower the boost.
On my supercharged LS I've increased header primarily from 1 3/4 -> 1 7/8 and lost 2psi boost. Port matched some constrictive port adapters and that Increased airflow made it lose about 2psi again. Larger intake tube and TB, Saw less boost. Superchargers like the free airflow and you get less boost, less IAT, and more airflow.
When i first heard you start the ls with the blower on it, i thought you were just yelling "yaaaaaaaaaaa" for a long time 😂
I was
Was curious about these blowers. They look like the units in small sewer treatment plants. It would be nice to see what it does with a stock subaru 2.0 or 2.5.
If it possbile to put this on 2.5l, i will do this 👍
You are the man
Thanks great test
So, my question is how MANY AMR500 blowers can you fit on a single engine? /s
THose look like a portable air compressor youd plug into the cig lighter.
Great content, I was hoping to see how much power that little blower made.
We all were...but guessing he didnt want to risk a decent engine to this...contraption.
Its awesome to see these videos. Reminds me of the old guys at the track who always thicker and experiment with odd things. Thank you! But i wish you hooked it up to the ls to see the power loss , just for kicks 😂.
Air flow and air pressure are inversely related. Adding better flowing inlet/outlets reduces inherent restriction. This increases air flow (cfm) while simultaneously reducing pressure (psi) which is just a measurement of restriction.
I was on the edge of my seat until it didn’t make boost until the ls “Que the price is right loser sound” lol
Cue the "Lowered Expectations" jingle from MAD TV
That cute little thing could be cool if made to work on something like a motorcycle engine.
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Robot Cantina did a video on this blower testing different oil to lubricate it. Worth a watch too
"Do you think it was slipping?" Gee, I wonder how it wandered between crank pulley grooves.....
What if you put an optical tachometer on the blower pulley? It sounds like its slipping to me. The flow is surprising but so is the horsepower needed to spin it. I'm thinking it would take a 60hp motor to around 100hp on 8-10psi with good charge cooling.
no on the 60-100 hp drive loss
as for the curve flattening out at the top (18k rpm) my uneducated guess would be given the size of the rotors in that little guy is that the vacuum on the intake side is so strong that it is not pulling more air in anymore effectively. its just stretching air the same way a engine does on the intake side. not belt slippage
Awesome video and information! I'm guessing the drop has something to do with that restrictive tube you selected and Bernoulli's principal where increased flow gives you decreased pressure 🤔
The bigger inlet allowed more turbulence on top of the blower where it’s picked up. The bigger inlet can make more flow with the bigger inlet but when you restrict to add boost it creates the turbulence which equates to less boost. You basically reached the max boost capacity of the the case. Just my hypothesis. Edit: you may be able to fix the turbulence and keep the bigger inlet by shaping the inlet slightly to keep the over all diameter but allow for less turbulence. Maybe 😂
The bigger hole was met with a ridge.
Very good test. If the results are verified by Kenny Bell then it will be great to use this test to test other superchargers, like the Eatons.
*Kenne Bell
You think they are not tested already ?
@@V8Lenny I have found no documentation on the power requirements of them.
Just a spitball guess from my swimming pool building/hydraulic design experience, I think the reduced boost with the 'Super' setup could be from reduced air velocity at the sensor. I know the sensor does not measure air velocity, but with increased air velocity of the factory outlet at the sensor it could possibly measure as higher pressure. A potential way to eliminate the possibility of that would be to run a capped branch flow pipe or a capped T with the sensor in it.
Supercharged 3800 guys learned long ago better flow = less boost. But it lowers intake temps and allows for a pulley change to make more power without spark knock.
Lol love the mount bracket easy peasy
it was what was sitting around
@@richardholdener1727 looks like it worked just fine.
Passing the point of diminishing returns maybe with the drop In boost? I'll give it one thing, it sounds damn good. Richard, now you need to hook it up to the engine so we can see how it becomes a restriction 😆
150-hp blower on a 440-hp motor
@@richardholdener1727 On the omni?
I wonder what it would do on a slant six? @@richardholdener1727
@@dazaspcI think this might be the blower that "redbeards garage " KZhead channel put on his predator drag race engine.
Would be cool to do a similar test with a turbo and see how back pressure affects power. Or just restrict the exhaust to cause back pressure. Probably won’t be good data since it won’t have positive pressure in the intake manifold .
Put an optical tachometer on the compressor pulley to detect if slippage is occuring. Rpm curve will not be linear if slippage occurs.
Air speed. Faster air = lower pressure. Bernoulli’s principle. I also think I could hear belt slip on every run except the big inlet and outlet unrestricted. Always enjoy your videos, love to see people passionate about the science behind engines.
Yeah if you listen carefully you can hear the rpm’s on the blower kinda hang while the ls keep going up in rpm definitely a little belt slippage up at 10,000 or so blower rpm I think was also wondering about the accuracy of the pressure readings from airflow across the orifice of the pressure sensor I definitely think 250 cfm is possible with housing porting and maybe water cooling the housing along with an air to water intercooler the gear drive alone probably makes enough heat to increase air temps
You could probably fit one or two more blowers on that bracket!!
air bypassing the rotor tips, leakage, inefficiency, that's how you check pump efficiency, flow open and flow at pressure. also as the case heats up more leak.
Bernoulli's Principle states that as the speed of a moving fluid increases, the pressure within the fluid decreases. The Bernoulli's Principle explains the behavior of an ideal fluid passing through a pipe or enclosed passageway such a pump.
With the large out let probably the reason it didnt build as much boost… i bet if you mix and match, super richy inlet/stock outlet would probably pick up your boost
I agree, it is like running a intercooler with too high of a volume. Keep compressor side runs low in air volume for good snappy boost...
nope