DEFENDER 2020 REALITY. How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-roader?
Welcome to "4xoverland" channel. One of the world's first and leading global 4WD adventure motoring channels.
The title of this video is "DEFENDER 2020 REALITY. How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-roader?"
How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-road vehicle? The Land Rover Defender 2020 is one such 4WD.
#2020Defender #defender #landrover
Ronnie Dahl's video: • 2020 Land Rover Defend...
TFL The Fast Lane Car video: • You Really Won't Belie...
Caradvice Australia video: • 2020 Land Rover Defend...
My original Defender 2020 video: • DEFENDER 2020. Hype Vs...
My LR Terrain Response Lesotho expedition: • Land Rover Discovery L...
MORE DEFENDER 2020 VIDEOS:
DEFENDER 2020 REALITY. How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-roader?
• DEFENDER 2020 REALITY....
MY BEEF WITH LAND ROVER. And I think I speak for most Land Rover Defender fans.
• MY BEEF WITH LAND ROVE...
SUPPORT US:
/ andrew_stpierre_white .
INSTAGRAM: / 4xoverland_com
HUGE BACKLIST: 4xoverland.com/
PODCASTS: bit.ly/4XOPODCASTS
ANDREW’S 4X4 BOOK: bit.ly/Four_Wheel_Drive
ANDREW’S AWARD-WINNING MEMOIR: bit.ly/Torn_Trousers
ANDREW’S FILMMAKING VIDEO COURSES: beafilmmaker.com
4xOverland is the world's largest global 4WD adventure off-road motoring channel. Established in 1996, it is hosted by well known 4x4 writer, explorer and filmmaker, Andrew St Pierre White.
**Thanks For Watching This Video**
Andrew, thank you for sharing our experience. Interesting analysis as always, we are very curious to see what the new Defender legacy will be 10, 20, or 30 years down the road. Would love to collaborate some day!
TFL and ASPW are my go to channels...a collaboration would just be amazing!
Fellas, you MUST collaborate. An off-road expedition from LA to Cape Hatteras must happen with you both.
Absolutely need to collaborate. It would be amazing! Great channels!
Definitely... need to collab.
Exactly what I thought!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼. Great videos!!!
I have watched thousands of KZhead videos and never commented on a single one. This is the first time I have felt compelled to do so. Absolutely the most balanced, articulate, contextual, experienced review I have ever watched. Professionally sequenced and presented 👌 well done mate 👍
That last comment about the old defender being classless is spot on, and something that as an owner of one I find very appealing.
Very few vehicles managed to be in that classless status. The other immediate thought is the original Mini.
And this is as well. Have a look at these guys regular people enjoying the new Land Rover . (@powerfulukltd) or the US (@autoplicity @expeditionPortal @truckking @dougdemuro )or Canada @shedlock2000. No one here with a posh accent or treble barreled name like Andrew Saint Pierre White. Honesty, Andrew is the snob. He has hated the vehicle from day one and is now damming it’s class status (again have a good look at who is posting- it’s the whole cross range ) ; then saying you can’t fit a winch - not true they are everywhere on Instagram, the web, you tube etc ( one dealer makes a mistake and Andrew is on him. Surely people did the same with the original Defender when it first came out); and finally it hasn’t got enough add ons. Launched in a pandemic. Some of the lifts, add ons, new sets ups in a short period of time in these crazy times are amazing. It’s early days, he should be saluting them . But Andrew is no fool, he has worked out that hating is drives more clicks than loving it so ......I realize I am in the minority here but I am optimistic for this addition to LR now and in the future .
@@10007will They might be regular people but they're regular people with connections in order to get a hold of the Defender to drive. The entry price of the guts of £43'000 means it is not within the reach of many customers of the original Defender, farmers and the like who got them as workhorses, as they were on par with the cost of entry price pickups. Now with little additions to the spec you're talking twice the value of those same pickup options now, more expensive that a new BMW 5 Series too. These won't be seen in those environments, and therefore the recognition across all walks of life that the original Defender had is no longer there. I doubt it happened on the original Defender at any point as they didn't have wiring looms apparently running through the front bumper. If they wanted to make it easy to add winches etc there should be auxiliary switches in the cabin which each have a plug/adaptor in the engine bay that the winch can simply plug into when they're added, same for additional lights, etc. Look at some of the UTVs/side-by-side ATVs (whatever they're known as in your area). They're vehicles that are designed to go offroad and designed to have additions added after initial purchase, as any vehicles marketed for offroading should be. With the emphasis on offroading JLR did in their marketing, I think they should have equipped it with all the auxiliary switches etc ready for accepting those necessary addons. Likewise, for transit these should have tie down points on the 'chassis' which could have been left for adaption for adding bull bars, rock sliders, etc. This might be the case but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't, considering a JLR dealership cut what sounds like a major wiring harness trying to install a winch, something that had the potential to be a 'plug and play' type install if the vehicle was designed correctly to begin with. I'm a Land Rover fan, but there are flaws in their vehicle considering how it was marketed. Thinking about it now, they could have marketed it as a Defender Sport. Had they admitted it wasn't going to be the continuation of the Defender that a huge number/majority of us Defender fans were wanting/expecting going by what's covered in their marketing etc, then I think it would have been better received by everyone. That way they continue the Defender name but in a way that admits it's not the same.
@@markwright3161 Thank you Mark for the clear and thoughtful reply. I understand a lot of what you outline and agree with much of it. I guess my overall point is I find ASPW looks down his nose, in general, and has dismissed the New Defender very fast and almost on principle. I doubt his motivations i.e. is he chasing clicks and ratings. Time will tell whether.................. the vehicle makes it or not....... will it be reliable.........can it be adapted........will the no air suspension classic versions be more accessible and easy to work on............... Plus available at a more accessible price point. I am not sure what the last Defender was selling for in 2016 but I suspect not that much less than the current one. Again thank you and appreciate the constructive debate,
Not appalling?
I'll certainly be sticking with my landrover 90 from 1988. So far ive been able to do everything that its needed myself
Hi Andrew thanks for the big plug mate. Totally agree with everything you talked about here. Very in-depth love it. Well done mate. Cheers Ronny
Ronny ...I have worked out how to drive the new Defender with its aids. When you have spent another $20 or $30 k on your Hilux lets have a match off :-) I will stay bog standard :-)
This is another collaboration I would love to see.
Damn right Ronny!
Ronny, Andrew, TFL: my go-to-channels
Ronny, Andrew, TFL: my go-to-channels as well. Also honorable mention to Expedition Overland. All great creators with unique strengths. Andrew's is my favorite though.
Best thing about the new Defender is its 3500kg tow capacity, so if you do go bush you can tow a Landcruiser... When the Defender breaks down you can continue the trip and get home trouble free with the cruiser..
Yeah if :) you have a chance
Lol
hahahahhah best comment
Pfft littering the bush with your unwanted new Defenders. Shame on you! xD
Andrew, yet another fantastic review - reminding viewers to pause long enough and think through the rest of the picture instead of rushing through the usual touch points. Very well done, sir
It’s so wonderful to have someone who actually has something to say other than “buy this”!
The check engine light is pretty reliable. You should give them kudos for that.
HaHaHa ... In one of the American videos it got up to 12,000 ft on the first day ... yup EML on.
Pearler that is. Right there
😂
Ahh but is it? Trusting this vehicle is going to take time me thinks.
😂😂😂
Hi Andrew, John from the UK here. I agree whole heartedly with your review. The new Defender and other vehicles in the range are really designed for people (like me) who are in love with the idea of off road adventures but don’t actually do any. Also out of interest a UK channel called Powerfuluk are currently running a series fitting a new Defender winch. You might find it interesting.
Am glad you finally got your hands on the new defender Andrew. 4xoverland, Rohnny Dahls and TFL are my go to channels. Love the merge in youtube carverse.
It's actually the new discovery, that is how it should have been marketed
Exaacccttllyyy. This should of been exactly that. They should've just updated the interior of the old Defender and put some upgrades and maybe some tech and then make a purist model with just the off-road stuff and a diesel.
Discovery should be the name cause u keep discovering new faults and new treatment from customer service
Is that your opinion or have you just been watching to much Richard Hammond?
@@BuFuMAV4ICK alot of people felt this way immediately. The cars a let down universally because they called it a Defender. I can almost guarantee if they called it the new Discovery it would've been universally loved.
@@BuFuMAV4ICK I said that over 7 months ago on this channel. Damn, I should have copyrighted my comment!
The new Defender should be labeled as Discovery 5 and everybody would be happy
That is ecactly what I say.. 👍👍
Totally agree
That’s the only thing they did wrong - was make a discovery and write “Defender” on it.
But there is already this car Discovery 5.
Wrong. The Defender is nowhere near as practical, as spacious or as plush a Discovery. Even when compared to the Disco 3/4.
Surely this is in the running for one of the biggest disappointments in modern car reboots. After all the amazing memories I have from my old 110, I so desperately wanted to give JLR my money for a new Defender but instead of making a proper off-roader that I could 'make mine' with accessories, they produced something aimed at new Discovery / Range Rover buyers and not those wanting a true Defender. Good review Andrew. Thank you.
Chevy bringing the Blazer back as a “Camero inspired” crossover right as Ford announced a rebooted 4x4 Bronco is maybe not more disappointing, as no one expected it, but it is at least if not more of an insult to its ancestors than the New Defender
To think blocks absolutely adored the series 2 landrover from back in the late 50's early 60's, and swore by it's abilities. To watch the demise of such a brand, by having management pig-headed enough to not want to listen or learn from past mistakes is truly incredible. Didn't they go to 4x4 rallies and watch enthusiastic owners make the vehicle their own. They almost sunk the company with defender 2, being unwilling to correct their mistakes until they absolutely had to (fix them or die) out came defender 3 but then they got lazy and spiralled down hill like a passenger plane with the captain asleep at the controls. It truly is an insult to the legacy that once was a great brand.
The number of people wanting to accessorize their vehicle like you want to, is surely in the minority. Those that want accessories, can now buy most of those accessories from JLR. Wether we like it or not, the world is changing and with it, what people want from their cars. So, car manufacturers produce what will be appealing to the majority of buyers. There are enough reviews confirming the off-road abilities of the new Defender...
These are the times. New, proper off-roaders are the unicorns... If you are DESPERATE, as you say, to relive the "old" Defender as much as possible, why not have a look at the coming Ineos Grenadier? Some say it is becoming (as still under development) what the new Defender should be.
@@norsenomad already registered my interest several months ago.
Thank you Andrew for clarifying my thoughts on the Defender. In 4-5 years the depreciation may make this an affordable vehicle, but wrenching on an electronic whiz-mobile with an electric supercharger, a turbocharger, and a hybrid system seems WAY daunting for my little garage. I do love that they brought back an I-6 though.
Hitting the nail on the head again Andrew. I use the words meaningfully. I have had over the years defenders, discovery, jeep, hilux, Mitsubishi and have used them across all sorts of terrain and occupations. I now have an Isuzu Xmas as my farm pickup. It is good. A visitor came yesterday in an old defender 90 and I got a fit of nostalgic lust!! Not for practical reasons, but for heart. Watching your video and thinking about things I came to the hitting the nail on the head. I learnt to drive in a hilux in the middle of the Free State and learnt maintenance and fix it at the same time. Early 70’s. We had to be able to fix it. You still do. But more critically from then on I have always bought vehicles on a fit for purpose basis. Hence the list above and its variety. But like a hammer most of them have been bought so that I can band in the proverbial nail on a building site or a farm or a shoot or a boat launch. And know that the vehicle will come out ok. Fantastic interiors get covered in s... exteriors get bumped. Things get broken and you need to get out of the field. That is what they are for. Purpose. And that is why your review is spot on. The new defender looks a bit like it and has the name. But it is not a farmer, off roader, builder (and i used a 110 box body for construction for 7 years) etc vehicle like the others. It is just another glam suburban vehicle. This is so sad. What did they not start with a unch of users and build a platform. Then you could bolt on and up. No that would have been a defender!
Thank you Andrew for letting us know what we already knew. Complexity kills it. That is why old LR are getting more praise. I have an 27 year old Disco 200TDI. 506.000 km. On the last 100.000 I overhauled everything in the drive train (bearings, gearboxes, etc). I changed the engine head this year. It was cracked beyond repair. A 400 euro job. I spent around 5.000 euro since the 400.000 km. So. Very cheap. The car is absolutely reliable. I go to Morocco often. Overall of the 506.000 km around 70.000 were made in Morocco dirt roads. Boy they are tough. Never had a glitch. Maybe I am just a lucky bastard. I want to keep it for the next 30 years. It is a great car. Extraordinary.
Wow you maybe are lucky! Great job keeping it alive. Hope I can get as lucky with my 2001 Disco 2 haha
Sort of same here. 20 yo defender: affordable and reliable.
Andrew, you’re completely spot on about the old Defender crossing class lines. And one reason is that like the Wrangler, and Land Cruisers is that people buy one because they WANT one. When a person drives a Honda, they most likely set out to buy a reliable sedan. Could be a Toyota, or a Mazda or Nissan but they didn’t set out to buy specifically a Honda. People set out to buy the old Defender, Land Cruiser or Wrangler and not just an SUV.
Absolutely spot on review. Off roaders are always working to make their rig a little bit better, go a little bit further, have a few more needed accessories attached. If the rig is too expensive or difficult to modify, IFS is one of the worst hindrances, it just won't do.
Love your true and honest review. I passed my driving test in a series 2a. I have owned and driven landrovers for nearly 40 years. I test drove the new defender but the cost of buying and maintaining it is just crazy.
22:05 that’s why ladies and gentlemen, I take this man’s recommendations seriously. He says the word NO whenever he feels suitable .. which is a rarity in this marketing tube.
True bloody true.
There is a lesson for JLR to learn: Listen to your customers like Jeep do with the Wrangler: "Give us a Jeep Truck" - "sure, let's just free up some capacity!" "Give us a Diesel" - "you got it!" Give us a Hemi and make it a 392 while you're at it" - "Done!"
@Jimmy The idea is to avoid a crash James. But stay save in your popular Korean-made crossover, and God forbid - don't lower the roof... and whatever you do, don't remove the doors!
Our work unit already has 1,200hours of towing on it and apart from a road collision sensor or something that failed in the dealership it has been fine and all the guys love it, tows a 4 tonne mini excavator like nothing, I probably wouldnt use one for remote work though for jobs on site and trundling round the rural country side it's ideal
Great comment Andrew! You’re an authority for the off road enthusiasts. I think as we said before, this is a good vehicle to be named Discovery Pro, or Disco 5 but certainly not Defender.
Crossing the class lines is probably the most perfect representation of why this car is such a disappointment. Love your commentary as always Andrew
This is actually why people love jeeps so much in the US. You could have a rural country house or a mansion, and a Jeep Wrangler would suit either driveway.
Yeah I own a Wrangler actually. I know exactly what you mean. Imagine Jeep coming out with a new Wrangler that looked just a Cherokee.
When you say the beeping stops after a while, it's probably an electrical fault 😄
Nope. Electronic fault.
@@labourlawact7826 I'll take your word for it.
@@labourlawact7826 yes, thanks for that. Always good to learn something.
@@vic6820 ☺😊☺
@@vic6820 😕
Finally, I found a good analysis of the new Defender, just what I was looking for. Thank you!
Loved the perspective on “affordable” thank you for giving the world that reality check
'air in the cabin' my old defender has plenty of that, and rain too, really should get round to changing those door seals.
The most honest and accurate Defender 2020 review I've seen so far.
Check out TFL you wint be disappointed
Honest? With due respect, I think Andrew wrote this before he drove the car.
So much car wisdom in one single video. Excellent analysis and lots to think about for new-ish offroader like myself.
... and with 75 Electrical modules, what could go wrong?
Interesting about ARB bullbar and winch. Didnt Ronnie’s have both of those things? I have the ARB bullbar and winch on my LR4. Defender shows a winch available at time of purchase on their builder. That was what seemed to me to be like the improvement over the LR4- cause let’s face it, it’s the successor to the LR4, not the Defender- more easily modifiable, even at time of purchase. Even the 20s, although the same mistake as the LR4, I’m sure someone will make 18s that will fit which will be fine, just like Compomotive does for the LR4. Here’s the hard truth- people who actually need an offroad built specific vehicle that is also street legal are a small, minuscule number of people. If worldwide there are 10,000 people like you I would be surprised. And of course you’re not all buying new vehicles. In fact, for your set, there is absolutely no reason to even buy a new vehicle. You are much better off with, and probably will buy, something used. Why? Cause you’re gonna beat the piss out of it. Most people can’t afford to or don’t want to do that with a new vehicle. But you know what there are a shit ton of? People like me whose vehicle needs to take them to and from their 9 to 5, carry the wife and kid and groceries, maybe even have to have a little cache (for example I’m a trial lawyer- I can’t go showing up where my clients will see me in some 15 year old beater- doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence or show much success). Yet on Fri night or Sat morning needs to also hold mountain bikes, kayaks, camping gear, maybe pull a trailer or a boat, and get them to their fun spots, and be capable of hitting some of the OHV trails in their area. And let’s face it, a dedicated offroad vehicle that is street legal is the last thing people like this want. Let me give an example. I probably take my LR4 offroad way more than most Land Rover owners or even the majority of Jeep owners. I have a place in the mountains with an offroad park nearby and I like to explore too. So I do actual offroad specific trips about maybe 15 times a year- a lot by myself, some with a group. That’s maybe 60 hours a year on OHV driving a year!! That’s more than once a month- and I bet that most people like me with work, a wife, kid(s) are in the same boat. I mean we only have so much free time-Take out a weekend or two a month for working an extra day, another weekend for family, another weekend for other interests (mine is mountain biking), and there is only so much time in life for these trips- it’s why theyre so special. And these trips are usually day long, maybe an overnight once in a while type trips. And there is no need for an offroad specific vehicle for any of them. Now my time driving on road? A quick rough calculation- maybe 1,092 hours a year on road. Even on an OHV trip- takes me 2-3 hours to the trail, then 2-3 hrs back from the trail, for maybe 4 hours Offroading. That’s 4-6 hours on road just to get to and from my offroad spot for only 4 hours of actual offroad driving. So, does buying some offroad specific vehicle that sucks on road for 60 hours a year of offroad driving and over 1,000 hours of on road driving make a lot of sense? And I haven’t even taken into consideration the other fun stuff that often people like me need these vehicles to do. For example, I own a boat. So it needs to be able to tow once in a while a close to 6,000 lb trailer. That rules out a Wrangler. And I mountain bike- so it needs to be able to fit my mountain bike and gear inside. And I kayak with my kid. So it needs to be able to carry a two person kayak and my kid and dog and gear comfortably. And getting to my spots for these activities, while often might involve driving off pavement, certainly doesn’t usually require more than your standard crossover or Outback. You hit the nail on the head when you said that all vehicles are compromises and as a buyer, one should get a vehicle whose use will maximize the strengths of the vehicle while minimizing where the vehicle is compromised. I think that for most people, a good allrounder is a much better choice as a vehicle than some hardcore offroader that happens to be legally allowed to drive on the road.
Now imagine you bought a new one and you have done nothing to it. It's done 167 miles. The check engine light is on and Lrd is saying you need a new engine but they offer you another vehicle instead. Then that one is "damaged" putting a factory winch on. Now image the first stage except you dont have a youtube channel. How are you treated after spending 50k plus?
You are missing on thing. There are only a handful of vehicles that are Hardcore offenders from the factory. Even a jeep wrangler makes compromises because of comfort and safety standards. BUT it can be equipped to become to become a Offroader. The new defender can not.
Yet pickups, in particular, dual cab pickups are making record sales in Australia. It's possible to blend the needs of an off-road vehicle with an on road vehicle without making it an SVU.
@@darrenhale6320 I am curious and waiting for the solutions to come. But the Development of aftermarket offroad mods will be hindered by the monocoque design of the new defender. Not that it is impossible, but maybe it is wiser to buy a ute/pick up theses days....
@@eyeswideopen7450 Not really. The Jeep Cherokee, both in its original AMC-developed platform and in the new FCA platform, are unibody/monocoque. The Grand Cherokee from the very beginning is also unibody.
Thank you Andrew for a crisp review. I owned a Defender 110 and have amazing memories with it.
Me too!
Finally i was waiting for you to review this!
The first 2/3 of the video I was wondering where this might go. But yes, I could not agree more to your conclusion.
Didnt think I'd watch the whole thing but this was interesting ty
Man, been waiting so long for this vid!
The fact you pulled from Ronny says a lot. Ronny is absolutely at the top of my list when considering an SUV. I've been seriously looking at the 110. I'm planning to trade in my E350
Strange that you say it's a disappointment. I'm seeing loads of them on the road where I live. Must be selling very well indeed. One question though, can I fit a NATO tow hitch to the new Defender? If not it's deal breaker. Got an excellent tow bar made up for my Disco 3. Not sure how I would do that on the Defender.
im here now, been really waiting for this one.
Andrew great insights. Thank goodness you didn’t mention that suspension cost. Heaven forbids if something went wrong with that.
Being an owner of a 95 Discovery 1, I agree. Love the honest review and thank you.
Brilliant!!! if you reading this and didnt watch the whole video go back and watch the entire video couldnt get a better review of this Defender!
Andrew definitely agree with you about the reliability factor. Having grown up in discovery 3's and 4's I would add that the new defender is the perfect replacement for what should have been the discovery 5. With the new defender discovery owner smiled but defneder owners felt like a knife got stabbed through there chest. The new defender I believe is an exceptional vehicle for someone who spends most of there time driving it in city's and goes on one trip a year. The defender (discovery 5) I believe will there for be successful for the same reasom as the discovery 3 and 4 was , it suits most peoples lifestyle and still gives them the option of alternating there lifestyle temporary.
I hope you can get your hands on the new Ford Bronco with the Sasquatch package , Andrew. That would be awesome . I really like your unbiased reviews. Your Jimney review had me wishing we had them here in the states. Cheers.
He'll have to travel to the states.
Australia "Won't" get the bronco. It may get in by importing it privately if the Australian Government gives it the all clear.
There's a company doing RHD conversions on the Bronco in Australia next year apparently. They'll take 6 months per order and prices start around $90k. So similar ballpark to the Defender.
Very nice report; I also came across the TFL video just when they released it (and been following the story :-(). What a disapointment and an frustrating experience for the TFL staff. I forever will stick to my Land Cruiser, something I can really rely on. Thanks for all your nice work as always Andrew ; And yes the old Defender is and will remain Iconic ! Love TV series Vera Stanhope and her Defender :-)
The best review of New Defender so far. Thanks! 👍 Very objective, true as it is. Much appreciate. Really enjoyable to watch, not like many reviews on KZhead. Bravo 👏
The TFL guys have really made it. That's really cool seeing you use their shots. Great video as usual.
Honestly, it didn’t take TFL to confirm what we already knew. The first duty of any off road machine is reliability.
@@firebir11 no but they werent afraid to document it and tell the truth, unbiased
@@yeahman1975 It would be cool for them to have ASPW respect their work enough to use them as an example.
Don't they have like 900k subscribers! I think they made it a while back. Do enjoy seeing KZheadrs giving each other props though
JLR really came up trumps - a huge upgrade at no cost to the TFL guys after the unfortunate issues.
So as per usual it’s most comfortable 4wd you can tow. The most exciting part of this truck is the insanely hilarious videos coming out about it. This was a fair and balanced video. Thank you for posting it! Your point about total cost of ownership is spot on. Just perfect. The more fancy crap they add the less useful they become for people who care about reliability. Your review calling it unsuitable is brave and honest. Bless you mate. Speaking truth. I love my land cruiser - let me tell you about the problems I’ve had in four years of ownership: none! No jab. Just love it.
Great video as always. Thank you. Interestingly PowerfulUK did a winch install on the 2020 Defender and it wasn't easy - 4 part video. Instructions were difficult to follow and there were instructions to cut part of the wiring loom which interestingly they didn't follow!
So would you recommend the new Prado or the Defender ?...as they are quite similar in price and size
I don’t have a Landrover. I find a lot of this review and in particular the comments interesting. There is a lot of technology in this car. There are also a lot of electronics in a 200 Series, a G wagon, or a Ranger or whatever modern vehicle you might buy. It has airbags. What are the actual statistics on failure rates for airbags? (I honestly don’t know but I suspect it’s probably not that common an occurrence.) I suspect that sensors may get faults - buy an OBD reader and read and clear them, or accept that limp mode might just save you from catastrophic damage. Is it reliable - who really knows? It’s been around for less than 12 months. Do other first of models have problems? Has anyone ever had a new car that wasn’t a landrover have problems straight from the dealer? I could of course go on in this vein but it just seems to me that people are very quick to dismiss things because they just have some feeling that they don’t like it and some guy on KZhead also said it was no good. This video is better than the comments section though, in that at least Andrew has thought a bit about it, but there is still a lot of assumptions in it. And the winch thing - well can you blame the car for a bad job of installation - I’ve seen plenty of these with a working winch...... and on price, well it seems there are levels of trim and luxury to be had, but you can have one for the same price as a wrangler rubicon in Australia, and remind me how much any of the 70 series cost again.... on a final not, there is actually a comment in here were someone tries to say that it’s how it is because of left wingers and feminists, there is a sophisticated argument for you.
FINALLY someone with a realistic comment
I would love to see the factory shop manual for installing a factory winch in an OEM 2020 Land Rover defender.
Take a look at powerfuluk on here, they're doing the factory winch install on their channel.
powerfuluk is currently doing a factory winch install
watch?v=p4kBfwu6EP0
kzhead.info/sun/m9CqZsayf6ONlGw/bejne.html
@@robsmtb1875 Y thank you.
I have an old Defender (2011) with a dealer installed winch. The first MOT (UK yearly safety inspection) I took it to after buying it, it failed. Because of the winch wiring. I have since rewired much of it and it works noticeably better.
In Italy we have an independent KZheadr who said the same things when the Defender was launched. Owning himself many old Defenders understood how the project was wrong. His channel is Greg Garage, also fighting against “bought” journalists and car tests which are more advertising than something else. 👍🏻 You have a new subscriber!
TFLCar and their Defender nightmare has single handedly put me off ordering a new defender, I’m not a big off-roader but I want to occasionally take it out to the bush, however the potential headache just isn’t worth it in my opinion.
me to I was going to try the 90 4cy so I could get the steel rims and coil springs
Exact same situation with me, that was quite concerning
I will go as far to say that it has just about killed the new Defender in the US market.
This is a reasonable statement. It was on my "maybe" list but my concern was always reliability. The TFL story has confirmed our concerns.
Before driving this car, you must read the instruction manual! And, understand what is written there! Then you can go off road.
Andrew thank you for an honest review.. horses for courses. I'll stick to my 1999 Defender 110 wagon cheers 🍻
Like your channel Andrew. Thank you. Loving the RR story. Have you seen the Australian "New Defender Mods" channel? I found it interesting in light of your comments regarding the Defender not being a true off-roader and difficult to modify. Perhaps Ronny Dahl should have a look at it too.
I like your mastery of unpacking complex phenomena using simple words and apt illustrations. Do you think it is talent or your journalistic career and acquired skills? I learned my ropes on an old 109 in Kenya and I concur with your position that the new Defender is too refined.
Amazing stuff as always :)
To be honest, lots of accessories are being made, and winches can be setup if you are abit handy. There are allready lightbars, bumper add-ons etc... give it a year. A fellow youtuber “powerfuluk” is fitting a winch as we speak, and showing us how to do it.
They are showing how ridiculously difficult and complicated it is. Winches have to be serviced, regularly which requires their removal from the car, in he case of the new Defender that will involve pulling the whole front end off. JLR 'GAVE' PowerfulUK their winch (which they declared), I bet they regret having done that given how complicated it was to fit.
You captured it all. Well done. I owned 3 Land Rovers. Horrible reliability but great aesthetics. I now own my all time favorite off road vehicle which is a 2019 RAM 1500 with a V8 and off road group. Brilliant and with 40k miles not a complaint. 20mpg. Locking diff. Skid plates. AT tires - all stock. You can sleep in the cap comfortably and the bed can carry all the accessories you could desire. Comes stock with a lift and Off Road shocks - listed for $61k and bought it out the door new for $46k - I am located in a territory that is demanding of vehicles and 6 months of the year just driving to the store is off roading
Hi Dave, sorry to hear about your troubles with the car. I hope all is well now and wish you and Paula a safe and trouble-free continuation of the journey around this great continent. Here is a quick story for all the "I told you so" Monday experts. Exactly 12 months ago, we hit an emu on our way back from Karijini. The car was undrivable, so I had to get it towed to Jurien Bay to a holding yard. On the way there, I chatted with the tow truck driver and asked him which brand he collects more often. To my surprise, he said, " I'm a Toyota fan, but in the last few years, I've seen a greater and greater and greater number of Toyota braking down with issues that should not happen, especially on newer vehicles. I'm starting to reassess my loyalty". Paul and Rosie from "Jarvis Estate".
That's partly because there is one Toyota for every two other cars on the road. In a typical day, one does not even see a Land Rover. But Toyotas are not infallible. And I'm also not convinced that the build quality is what it used to be.
I loaned my new Defender to Andrew to evaluate for this video. I do agree with much of his assessment of the new Defender but not all. If you are an off-road zealot then sure, get a old live axle truck and spend your weekends adding bits to out do your mates. I am NOT that buyer. I want fuel economy, manners around town and the Hwy, comfort, performance, load carrying capacity, towing capacity and safety. This, as far as I can tell, is the best vehicle on the market for me and, I suspect, a reasonable chunk of the 4x4 market. OK its a $100k car but its not like its the only one in that price bracket. I do feel confident that it would out perform or equal most of its competitors in that price bracket on my purchasing criteria, and having just returned from a weekend in a dunes and tracks at Preston Beach you would have to spend a hell of a lot more to find its equal off-road from the show room floor. Unless of course you are willing to rough it with a Jimny or a Jeep (which can't tow). There is no way that I would buy a Landcruiser ute for my purpose, does that mean they are crap? Nah, just means they have a different target market. The new Defender is not an old Defender, it eats it for breakfast on every point except being able to work on it yourself. Which I suspect many here have no interest in doing. As for reliability, this is my third JLR product and they have been100% reliable, this is 2020 after all, not 1990 and JLR have been working very hard in this front. I am thrilled with the new Defender and I just love driving it. To me that is a measure of a good car.
Agreed on all accords. I wanted a vehicle I could take through trails/ parks on the weekend and drive to work every day. It's perfect for that. Maybe someone will turn it into a "proper offroader" 10-15 years from now when I sell it and there are dozens of aftermarket upgrades available.
I imagine you felt quite let down when you saw Andrew’s narrow minded, one sided, poorly researched aberration of a review. I know I was.
Well done Andrew, brilliantly put. I feel the new Defender is just to far removed from what the old one was all about. It isn't that uncommon too see a 20+ year old defender still being used on a daily basis, I own a 30 year old one myself. I really cant see the new version lasting half that time.
I have a 1928 Ford Model A. It has lasted that long! You just can't buy them anymore sadly.
They don't want it to last more than 10 years - they want you to come back and buy another one. That is the world we live in today. Most car manufacturers recomend scraping a vehicle after approx 7 years.
Not even a quarter... Bad value.
Love your perspective Andrew, I live just around the corner from you. Living in Perth, or visiting some of WA's remote mining operations around Newman and Nulligine it will be eye opening for you to visit some of the mining industry's facilities and observe the increasigly rapid adoption of digital mining technology to automate mine sites, their vehicles and their equipment. Caterpillar, Komatsu, Epiroc etc are providing remotely operated, automated haulage trucks, drilling rigs, boggers etc which are often remotely operated several thousands of kilometres away from their operations centres in Perth. Electronic sensors, digital data, digital diagnostic systems and predictive maintenance are all technologies designed to imporve safety, vehicle reliability and of course mine site productivity. Fascinating to observe the application of this technology into a consumer product where digital diagnostics you would hope, will increase reliability, increase passenger safety and increase performance. I wonder why technology is failing so spectacularly in this not so demanding environment.
Andrew, you're one of the few people I enjoy watching reviews from, mostly due to your analytic POV and certainly due to the fact you're not posting advertorials and on. I'm based in Greece. I've owned a SWB Series IIA and I currently own a Ninety. I'm quiet surprised you took into account: • the look (aesthetic, timelessness and ability to not say something about your income. you could be a farmer, the queen and anything in between, with slightly different trim perhaps) • the offroadability (factory spec ability, easy to upgrade according to use, including non-recreational offroad uses, such as commercial ones, tipper for instance) but you left out a major advantage no other 4x4 had: the versatility. And I'm not talking just about factory options, which were great and more than one could hope for, even with late, puma Defenders. I'm referring to the fact that with the very same car, you could have at least 4 very different body styles, using very basic tools and even w/o needing a second person to help you or a mechanic. Let's say you had a metal top Ninety with rear seats and windows. You could easily have it as: • a pick up (with either an uncovered bed, with a tonneau cover, with a canopy, or with a 1/3 soft top (a.k.a. farmer soft top)) • a van (by replacing just the side panels with the ones that have no windows and removing the rear seats, or even folding them up) • a soft top (or even a soft top warn over a truck cab!) • a cabrio (either with full doors, or with half doors) So, with the very same car, perhaps in just two years time, one could use it and cover perfectly his needs for: • Winter trips with the whole family • Short summer trips • Transporting dusty construction materials and equipment • Offroad excursions • Getting married in an island during the summer The Wrangler and Series Land Cruiser may have some of those attributes, but they are not anywhere close to ticking as many boxes as the Defender. Also, the Land Cruiser Series were never available in Greece, which is unfortunate. I wonder how could you have left out such a quality of the Defender as I am sure you have such experiences and it is indeed very sad that Land Rover chose to change direction, instead of upgrading the same great recipe, like Mercedes did with the G Wagon, like Jeep did with the Wrangler and like Suzuki did with the Jimny. They've all done a great job, perhaps not in the direction I'd personally go for, but still in a very sensible direction. Keep up the great work
Thanks for confirming what Im talking all the time. Lovely car but letst stick at that.
I think you can install the winch like Top Gear did on their review
Hi I’m not sure as new to this channel and off-roading. Surly all these new vehicles have air bags front side etc how’s this work if going over landing and off-roading??? Do you turn them off or do you remove? Seems strange to me especially as we’re talking here about the new Land Rover. ASPW your the expert any ideas thoughts please. Tia Kevin
Hi Andrew, how would you compare it to a discovery 4
Lucky8 has winch and rock rails available and installed on their defender in addition to a lift kit.
Blind Toyota fan boy is blind, for him, even Discovery 4s can’t be modified 😂😂
Had exactly the same experience with my 2007 VW Touareg. Once it hit 150,000km the repair costs started to get insane but the thing had devalued to such an extent it was worth close to nothing. Traded it in on a 2018 Toyota Prado. No where near as powerful but will hold its value and the cost of ownership is significantly less.
I’ve had two new defenders and both have faults with check engine light. Have since given the vehicle back
Love the TFL shout out! def my go to to review trucks- Loved the LR3 they had - I have had 3 :-)
The David Attenborough of the 4x4 world 🏴☠️⛏️⛏️👍💙
Well said😄
I have been absolutely hanging out for this review. So well thought out and crafted in to such a fantastic narrative. I definitely won’t be trading in my ASPW spec Prado any time soon!
Andrew, I have owned one LandRover D2 SE II for almost 20 years. It is high high maintenance. However the LandRover has never failed me off road and always got my family home safe in the worst of weather ie hurricane season in Texas. I do wish LandRover would produce a model that was bare bones all about OFF ROAD and keep all the components simple ie seats you can adjust with your hands, and so forth. Your assessment I believe is correct. But I am keeping mine! It’s at 240,762 miles on the OD; It may retire someday on the ranch where I hunt as a rooftop tent camper & hunting vehicle:)
Another great review. I like how honest your reviews are, not biased at all. I'd like to see you doing a review on the Jeep Gladiator.
Land Rover: You have always pushed the limits in Luxury and engineering with the Range Rover line up. The LR Series 1,2,3, and later Defender have been utilitarian. Why mix the two line ups. Andrew is absolutely correct. Why would you take with a luxury complicated machine off road. It’s great off road but too complicated ECUs department. Plus carrying 85 spare ECUs would take up a lot of load space.
Amazing insights. We cannot be foolish by those sort of advertisement any more.
Myth that Land Rover is off roader but according me Land Rover is family car .but Land Rover off road capabilities in muddy and desert ,ice but not good in stoney area.
Thank you, the points you put forward are the very ones I have been think since the 2020 Defender came out, the old one I see as a Swiss Army Knife, it has alot going for it to be a true 4x4, but the new one is over engineerd to meet a modern market but lost what the Defender name means.
Hello from Boston, Massachusetts Andrew... I found you via my fascination with the Ineos Grenadier. Thanks for all your pained commentary on modern 4x4. At least Jeeps are highly modifiable and not like a plastic sneaker.
The Wrangler is “affordable”. As long as you aren’t buying new in the U.K. Here they are bloody expensive!
Add in Canada.. not cheap any more.
Crazy expensive in Europe
And unsafe.
More expensive than a Defender?
I think the wrangler Rubicon is still the best new 4x4 you can buy even though I'm a Lr guy.
“Old Landrovers go for nothing, you’d pay 3 times the amount for the equivalent Japanese vehicle” Not in the UK 😂
Here in Canada, an old Land Rover model that's NOT a Defender can be cheap, but an old Defender is as much or more than a new 4x4.
@@russmiddleton2713 yes I should have said defender. The other non defenders can go for little money.
Old Defenders in good shape are not cheap, too expensive...
Here in the UK there's no such thing as a cheap defender.
I want an older defender they are the best looking utility vehicle. Japanese are boring.
The absolute best video about the new Discovery, i mean Defender, or was it a Discovery?
I was following the TFL chanel and his low spec Defender because it has the rear lock, but now, they have the normal Defender. So ... we will see but I would like to see the first Defender. If a Winch is not easy to fit, that is a big issue. What about the rest of the equipment?
It’s funny, I was just watching TFL’s video on their defender. Here’s the thing🤔, from what I’ve seen, I like the new defender. My favorite out of all the models on KZhead has got to be TFL’s first car with the off-road package, the steel rims, and 6 six seats. Living in Queens, New York with lots of potholes and just broken streets that leave much to be desired compared to Canadian and European roads, I would potentially buy a vehicle like this over a crossover or typical SUV. Also to say looking at new cars and not used 4x4’s, it’s an appealing car. Reason is, you work most of the time, you don’t have many vacation days and with vacations being mostly seasonal, you’re going to be driving at the same time as many others and further and further away from home to prevent overcrowding and disrupting natural ecosystems at the destinations. So on road is most of the life this vehicle is going to be spent and off road it is going be very capable. So to me, this is a new model with some teething issues but mpg, cabin, space inside the cabin, and road noise is what is going to be the most appealing. That and not getting stuck on a trail. Personally it would be a grocery getter and weekend hauler for fishing and other activities for the most part, so I think 30 miles is what I would be doing one way with the occasional driving in to work to pick up documents or drop off something. So I think I will hold off for now until JLR solves their problems. The other question is why I wouldn’t want to buy a jeep JL or a new Toyota and I like Jeep because it has a manual transmission but they are known to be twitchy on the highway (over 65mph) and don’t come with a diff at $56,000 as well as some other off roady bits (explained by TFL). On the other hand Toyota’s are reliable cars but a bit pricier, quite thirsty and insurance for them was higher than the other two for me when I inquired about it. The other thing is idling, comfort is important and a/c and heating consumes fuel. I find myself working hard and I would like to treat myself to something nice.
No it's not 'teething problems' Landrover is incapable of sorting its issues out. In fact in its entire history they have never build anything that could be described as reliable. Buy one new and rely on the recovery services and warranty until it expires, then dump it on a sucker if you just have to have one.
Honest and real as always. It should have been called something different. 🤷♀️ Excellent vid. 👍
This is the first video I’ve watched on your channel and I have to say, this was damn good. I am torn between the Defender, Rubicon and G wagon (when I have the money of course 😂) but the perspective you put here is invaluable. Great video.
I own a P400 Defender, only complaint I’ve had so far are the tires that came with it. It’s gone through everything I’ve pointed it at on stock tires. Sure the wheels are a little big and the tires are a little small but it took on the same roads my Powerwagon was doing on 40’s. I plan on lifting the Defender and putting 35’s and 18” rims. Should make it even better, shall see.
How many K’s did your demo have on the clock? I’m guessing with it being a demo it has more than the TFL guys? And you didn’t mention anything regards display faults on that one you drove. I’ve been following TFL too and their mate CO TRAILS, who have modded their defender and it makes the trails they go on p!ss. Given all the new defender vids out there it just seems the TFL guys have just had some tragic luck with their purchase. I believe the wiring harness that was cut was done by the dealer cos they had no idea what they were doing, it was clearly mentioned by the TFL guys. It might be because TFL is pretty high profile on this medium, but credit to JLR they have tried to rectify things. Don’t get me wrong, British cars have always had a history of faults, and more should be done to improve this! My cousin told me that he once went to a LR dealership in the uk and even a brand new (old defender/series LR) had a drip tray underneath haha. The thing is JLR are not the only guilty party in having reliability issues, I just think it’s easier for everyone to latch on and take the p!ss
Love the honesty...
I'd love to own one for driving to the supermarket (big load space) and a Jimnny for going off road.
Great review, hope you get to do a Grenadier for a comparison ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Would love to watch a collaboration with ASPW and the TFL guys in the future!
Yeah, at least Andrew can drive.
The kind of content i look forward to in youtube! Honest review.. way to go Andrew!
I had a 200tdi discovery years ago and loved it we used it for green laneing in the uk it towed our caravan I drove it daily for work and me and my son spent many hours modifying mending and welding the dam thing. It was finally broken for it parts winch snorkel and all the good bits and I made a fair bit back. If any one asked me what I thought about the car I would say it’s a bag of bolts it’s always needs something doing to it and if you don’t want that walk away but for me I spent hours and hours with my son working on it learning him how to change suspension fit parts and weld it was worth every penny it cost me because I did all them things with him. It did break but never left me stranded at times left me frustrated but it was part of the family for many years. I don’t think any of the newer version after the original defender/discover/range rover can really be trusted to work off road because they became posh instead of what they really was first thought of a vehicle that did the job they was designed for either in a field with a bit of road work not what they have become a fashion accessory.
Andrew, please do a review about the Australian defender 110 perentie landrover which come with the isuzu 4bd1 engine , I'm curious to know your take .