The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent | The 2003-04 Colorado Avalanche - Yesteryear Ep. 1
"There is only one puck, and you can have too many stars." -Scott Thornton
In 2003-04, the 100-point Colorado Avalanche boasted one of the strongest on-paper rosters in NHL history, with their top six alone boasting over 6,600 career points, and sporting half a dozen hall-of-famers up and down the lineup.
This is the story of the team that was destined for everything...and by God, everything happened to them.
PATREON: / pinholesgrahamhockey
DISCORD: discord.gg/kEveSVAwCu
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:47 The Weight is Shouldered
06:32 Headlights
11:45 Behavior That Makes You Drink
20:23 Vancouver Prelude
24:16 Dark Days
32:12 Regularly Scheduled Programming
38:29 Bad Case of the Crumbles
47:18 Into the Wilderness
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#nhlplayoffs #stanleycupplayoffs #retrosports #throwback #coloradoavalanche #2004 #nhl
Constructive criticism/thoughts on this new format and series?
Love the idea for this new series and am excited for future episodes! No notes, this is an excellent branching out for the channel. However, be wary of using premieres for your content - missing the start time can discourage people from clicking on the video until the premiere has ended. Premieres also make the video more complicated to share on other websites as a disclaimer of "starts at x:xx pm" or "begins in x hours" has to be added somewhere in the shared post to give people the heads up. With that said, if this and future premieres put up great numbers for your channel, by all means keep using them. Also best to avoid posting your vids on special occasions or events, like posting on New Years Eve for this video or the Sabres/Canes video on the day of Carolina's Winter Classic, you may miss out on potential viewers due to people being pre-occupied with festivities or celebrations.
I think this is your best video so far. I didn't know enough about it. Maybe make a mention about the Selanne difficulties, but it also wasn't absolutely necessary to the video, so it doesn't really take away from your general analysis.
It was a great video! Is there a go to source to find footage of older seasons? Anything pre 06-07 season is a b!tch to find.
Your content is fantastic. I'm editing the database for EHM 2007, for personal use, and watching videos talking about players from that era is really helping me on how to grade the teams and players
always a fan of the long form and deep dive videos. great work man
The Selanne arc vs. Colorado is fascinating. Not only would he recover from surgery during the lockout to put up 90+ point seasons in 2006 and 2007, he’d eliminate the Avs in 2006, score his 500 and 600 goals against the Avalanche, and play almost a decade more
They made a document 'movie' about Selänne around 10 years ago when he was about to retire for good in which Teemu himself said that the surgeon who made that surgery for his knee said that the repaired knee would have 2-3 of hockey left in it...But in the end it ended up having a lot more.
This video featured Karlis Skrastins, Marek Svatos, and briefly mentioned Wade Belak. Those three players share three things in common - they were all former Avs, they each played several hundred NHL games, and they all tragically passed away in their mid-30's. RIP
Marek Svatos will always hold a Place in my Memory. NHL 06 Was the one with him as a Rookie and I played the fuck out of that game. I'm an Avs Fan so Every Franchise First Year he won the Calder for me.
Svatos commited suicide. He was depressed for his carreer if I remember correctly
The first guy died in that plane crash. I honestly can't fathom something like that happening
@@matejtrnovec9144Bad combination of medications, not sure if it was intentional. He was having major CTE related complications.
@@matejtrnovec9144 Svatos died of a drug overdose. Belak took his life. Skrastins died in the KHL Lokomotiv plane crash that also took the lives of a few other former Avs (and almost everyone on the team had played in the NHL).
I've got a Dave Aebischer helmet signed by the entire 03-04 roster. It's probably my most valuable piece, a superstar roster that should've won but never got rolling.
One thing I didn't mention is that Selanne had been battling a knee injury/putting off knee surgery for a few years to this point in his career, one reason why he wasn't himself in 2004. But since he didn't suffer that injury this season, nor got treatment for it until there was news that the lockout was 100% coming, nor was mentioned by himself or the media anywhere I could find during this season, I figured it wasn't critical to the video. Fortunately, he got the surgery he needed while the league was on lockout and went on to have some of the most productive age 35+ seasons in NHL history.
The knee injury was supposed to be career ending and the surgery done to it was highly experimental and it healed way better than anyone ever imagined.
Selanne apparently had knee issues going back to his time in Winnipeg. They begrudgingly matched a frontloaded offer sheet on Keith Tkachuk in October 1995 but figured they didn't have the money to keep both. Team doctors were worried about Selanne's knees holding up so that was one of the reasons they opted to trade him in early 1996.
geez, I wanna thank you for this. This was so well done. As somebody that lived in Denver, when the Avs came to Colorado, I have one of the greatest Patrick stories. a friend of mine had season tickets which were right below where the press box was and that’s where Pierre L would sit and it was great, because I actually learned some French because I believe he was always talking or sometimes talking in French Canadian. when Roy traded to the Avs, nobody could pronounce his name and if you remembered old McNichols Arena, they had that really bad kind of Jumbotron or whatever you call it when Patrick came out they did this thing with Bruce Lee because Bruce Lee would go like Wah it sounded like roy. The story goes that after they did that Patrick was told I don’t know if it was the PR people whatever that if they ever did that again it would not be good and they never played that again. It’s just a great story. The thing that this video really reminded me is that gosh that team should have one way more than 2 cups and I know you can say that about a lot of great teams but seriously the talent they had was just ridiculous. It’s just how it goes sometimes but man that was a great team I mean it was a great team right on the verge when they came from Quebec. It was just I don’t think the fan base really understands how lucky they were and I’m not saying that it’s a good or bad fanbase. I just mean that it’s pretty amazing what they got from that team. Peter Forsberg was in town a couple weeks ago and he showed up on some of the like talk shows or whatever you wanna call it and got that guy is just still the coolest person I’ve ever seen God he was a great player. Talk about somebody that could even had a more ridiculously great career without all the injuries and part of it was he played so hard I really believe in today’s game he would be scoring like 150 points season. Thanks again for this video really brought some great memories back.
@@roguewavecreative forsberg was special indeed
I think it's pretty critical to the video considering how much time is spent focusing on Selanne's lack of production, demotion to the fourth line, being a healthy scratch, etc.
This might be your best work yet. Fucking incredible, dude.
The Bertuzzi Moore thing is probably the craziest moment I’ve seen in my hockey watching lifetime. Everyone was talking about it, it was the sucker punch heard round the sports world. Moores serverity of injuries, them going to court over it, Moore essentially having a “hit” out on him within the Canucks dressing room. Just wild man.
I actually missed the Steve Moore hit on Markus Naslund and I didn't know about this even though I was watching hockey back in 2004 after the Mighty Ducks Cinderella run in 2003. So that's were the beef started and then ended up with the Todd Bertuzzi cheap shot, and that incident was all over the news and ESPN Sportcenter and ESPN News had a field day on this coverage. So it was Steve Moore that injured Naslund, and that's where the head hunting thing came about. It was a really wild time in the NHL when that cheap shot happened, and before that, the hit on Naslund shook up the Canucks so much that Brad May wanted to have a bounty on Moore, but he didn't injure Moore and Bertuzzi went for the cheap shot instead. Knowing the events before the cheap shot was important, and this is what I completely missed since I thought it was a random encounter when the cheap shot happened, but the past events led to that. Pinholes Graham nailed this perfectly and it was a very big deal when Naslund was injured since he was the best player for the Canucks at the time along with the Sedin twins.
@@jdmrchem5 how the hell did you not know about the naslund hit...
This team is my biggest what if in sports. It’s very telling that about 15 years ago I was on Teemu’s website and he has a few paragraphs about every season he played except this one. All he said was something along the lines of how he and Paul teamed up again and it didn’t work out. He’s probably the only player who benefited from the lock out. He needed that surgery on his knee and a whole year off to heal.
If Patrick Roy didn't retire, it would have basically been the Western All-Star team vs the rest of the league, if they were healthy obviously
Fun fact, Bates Battaglia would end up winning The Amazing Race with his brother after his NHL Career was over! Just something interesting... I love the story of the 03-04 Avs because it goes to show that no matter how much talent you have on a roster, you can still be beaten. The Rangers also tried assembling a mini super team that same year when they paired Eric Lindros up with Messier, Leetch & Jaromir Jagr and that too also backfired. Great job as always! Just joined ya discord too
Forsberg was so dominant back then
Forgot to mention, I met Marek Svatos in 2008... he was a fun guy... may he rest in peace.
As an Avs fan I always love to see the History of the Franchise be well documented in video format. I was still in Elementary school during the 2004 Season so I don't remember much from the early 2000's. Getting a History lesson about the Superteam that never was is a real treat. Thank you PHG.
I was a fairly new Avs and overall hockey fan in 2003. Stoked when 8 & 9 were signed, coming right off of Foppa's Hart Trophy and Hejduk's 50 the previous season. Everything that could go wrong did. Even being new to the game, none of the Lacroix trades made sense. Only Konowalchuk really worked out. This team never really forged an identity, and it was clear after the season that the glory days were over. Imagine being so certain you were playing for a Cup in July only to realize the dynasty was over 9 months later. Brutal. ESPN also did a running documentary on this team during the season. It's only underwhelming because the team itself ended up underwhelming.
51 minutes felt like a breeze! I remember 12 yo me thought the cup was going to Colorado that year with the Kariya and Selanne signings and l was shocked when it didn’t happen. Seemed like a given, but that’s hockey and it’s why l love the sport so much; anything can happen. Happy new year 🎉🥳
Love playoffs past but the focus on single team stories is a welcomed change of pace!
Graham, this is a masterpiece. I’m so glad someone’s telling these stories for the coming generation. Terrific job dude. Your channel is ultra impressive and entertaining
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it :)
Man with all the old news articles and everything, the backround research must have taken ages. I applaud you.
Yet another incredible video. The scary part about this cautionary tale is that many teams haven’t heeded the warning and would fall into the same traps.
only thing I think could have added to this was some sort of "where are they now" for these players and coaches, giving a quick detail of highlights and lowlights of their careers and lives after this fateful season. Would have been cool to see the post lockout careers for a lot of these players mentioned
One player in this video having a pretty great post-NHL career is John-Michael Liles - he's currently hosting a Coach's Corner-esque segment on Avalanche broadcasts on Altitude, two days ago he had Ryan Miller on as a guest
I love the wine cave segments!!@@AvsJoe
This was my first childhood 'superteam' mainly because of Sakic and Forsberg. Great fucking work man!! Keep this series going!!
I read an article about this team earlier this year and I wanted to learn more about them after reading it. So excited to see what you’ve put together here
Glad to hear I could help! Hope you enjoy :)
The Flames allowing 654 goals in 32 games and being second in their division and 3 points off 1st is quite impressive
654 goals in 32 games is 20 goals per game
@@SBRS47it obviously must have happened, American Gooner says it did
@@ethanjamoore I believe him I was just breaking down the math for people like me who can't do math good
Oh man, I remember when Kariya and Selanne signed with the Aves. I thought the cup was theirs and then everything just imploded once the games were actually played.
It was evident that when they played together, Granato never put a power forward like Foppa on a line with them, meaning they got pushed around ALL the time. They had no space and Granato really pissed me off with how he managed the lines. Sakic, Kariya and Selanne as a line is a video game line, but they are ALL small, SKILL forwards, they needed someone to be down low to grind because they couldnt. This was the ultimate downfall of this year.
Wings fan there I thought the same thing. That team was a huge disappointment
@pilotamurorei Yeah I'm hesitant to lay the blame at the feet of just one thing when so many went wrong...but man, a lot of Granato's lines were just cripplingly bad.
As an Avs Fan, even it was hard to watch you did an amazing job putting this Video together. Thank you
I NEVER leave KZhead comments, but I had to give you a shoutout on this. I could watch this type of content forever and be totally happy. Crushed it!
Top tier video. What a crazy story for what could’ve easily been titled “most stacked and strongest team of all time” so sad how much injuries impact a team in hockey, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
New Pinholes Graham video is the best way to kick off the new year
Such a great video. I remember this season and the frustration of it vividly. Good job capturing this story.
Phenomenal!! Thank you for these massive undertakings and amazing insight.
Fantastic work! It scratches an itch having hockey videos with this kind of storytelling.
This may be the best video that you have made so far, not to say any of your previous works have been bad. So much time and effort and care put into this video that puts other documenteries to shame. Thank you very much for this end of year gift. I am very excited to see what you continue to do.
Recently found your channel and absolutely adore these long history vids. Great stuff
The Penguins trading Nasland really caused some butterfly effects. This was a hell of jorb, man. Great work, and glad to see you're getting the attention you've earned.
Hell of a jorb!!
Your narration style works really well for long form videos, I’d love to see more of them! Great video Graham
This was really well done. As a fellow editor, your stuff is on point. I'd love to see more of these! Small suggestion: maybe look into the NYR Dark Ages from 1997-98 to 2003-04. That could make for good content. Anyways, good stuff as always!
AS a Devs fan, I 100% support this idea for science & information of course. No other reasons whatsoever.
Fantastic analysis man. That Bertuzzi-Moore incident section gave me chills and I can’t wait to see another episode like this in the future, maybe for some teams like the 2019 Blue Jackets, the 2012 Kings, or the 2011 Canucks. But no matter who you pick, I know I’ll be right back here to watch it
Fantastic video! Love the Playoffs Past series, but Seasons Past is an amazing idea I hope we see more of
Great video! I appreciate you showcasing this crazy season. I was 8 at the time, and an avid Avs fan. I remember the disappointment of 03-04, the violent Burtuzzi incident, and then the lockout really put a damper on my hockey enthusiasm. I never stopped playing hockey and it will forever be the my favorite sport, but that was such a weird time for the Avs. It is an absolute blessing to see our return to glory. Hockey was dead in Denver for a while, and now it is thriving again.
This was awesome and so well done... A great in depth look at what could of been... great work.. go avs!
Dude, that was phenomenal. Keep up the good work. Can’t wait to see what you’ve got in store for 2024
great video(s) man, really appreciate the style, work you put in and everything! keep it up especially the voice over is not too over the top and shows personality every now and then!
As always amazing Gram love your work
Haven't even finished watching the whole video and man this editing is amazing, can't wait to see more!
Wow, what outstanding reporting for what is often overlooked time periods here in colorado. Most fans, some of the more diehard ones even, know about Foppa and Sakic coming to town with Kruppe and Roy and winning in 96, then again in 01 with borque, and then gradually retiring until we got Landeskog and MacKinnon in the early 10s. This did a great job shedding light on some of those unknown years.
The production of this video is amazing. I’m looking forward to more episodes!
Nice job I was waiting patiently and it was worth the wait 👍
Love the video man. Stellar stuff, and can't wait to see what you've got next. Keep up the great work!
Thanks a ton! Glad you enjoyed it :)
Genuinely incredible video. Had my full attention from start to finish. Can't wait to see where in Hockey history you decide to shine a light on next.
Thank you so much for watching!
Amazing work !
love The stuff man awesome work !
This is the season that solidified my love for hockey and the Avs as a kid. Really well made video, keep it up!
I'd never heard of your channel but this was OUTSTANDING!
Great to hear! Thanks so much for watching :)
Great video! Was hooked and watched it all
Fantastic video, your creative vision really stands apart from most on this platform! New sub well earned
Incredible video as always
This was great Your videos keep getting bigger and better
Amazing video dude! I'm a die hard Avs fan who has followed every season for decades now and this is one I so vividly remember. I remember seeing the breaking news about Kariya and Selanne and just was over the moon excited for the season. The lines were gonna be Tanguay-Sakic-Hejduk with Selanne-Forsberg-Kariya.. imagine that. I was so hyped I remember burning DVDs of highlights of this season and watching them on my TV lol.. I think you broke it down perfectly, I was only 14 at the time but I remember posting all over the official Avalanche message board during that time. We mostly just blamed Granato because it was easy, and yeah he was probably out of element but it obviously wasn't entirely his fault. Selanne was a shell of himself that season, injuries, etc. My only point of contention is you were probably a little gracious to Canuck fans regarding their reaction to the Bertuzzi-Moore incident. They came in droves with "free Bertuzzi" signs and deflected all blame to Moore. Blamed him for not fighting (even though he fought Brad May), blamed him for not fighting Bertuzzi, blamed him for being on the ice, blamed Avs players for piling on, etc. A lot saw it was justifiable, after all Moore wasn't really gonna have a long career anyway. To this day, Canuck fans I run into will still have this attitude. I'm really glad they lost that Cup final and the world got to see what kind of animals that fanbase is at a large. Lastly, the Avs were royally fucked over by the salary cap. Not only being one of the higher salary teams anyway, they had some kind of bonuses for Sakic and Blake count against the cap that were paid out years before the lockout and salary cap. This meant losing Forsberg and Foote like you mentioned, two of the most well liked players. After that the Avs went from cup contender to playoff bubble type of team until the eventual rebuild and dark era that blossomed our current Stanley Cup winning core. I'd like to think if the cap didn't happen, and that we didn't lose a year of cup window that core mighta pulled one more in the mid to late 00s.. who knows though.
Joe even had a 100-point season a couple of years later (when those became a real rarity), but they exited in first round of playoffs, I think.
Yeah we just didn't have any depth to make it. They tried.. but even the next season after 05 we lost Blake the next year too. Also the Avs traded Aebischer for Jose Theodore who never really panned out, was injured a ton, etc. They tried again when cap space finally cleared with Ryan Smyth and Scot Hannan but neither really performed as well as they did and then a season or two after Sakic was retired (plus a major snowblower accident ugh) and you can kind of look at the rebuild after that.
My favorite hockey NHL channel. It's giving those videos the score does about historic teams or events. Would love a late 90s/early 00s Sharks video :)
Great video man, watched the whole thing
Another great video! Would love to see more deep dives into a particular season by a team whether it be good or bad in the outcome! Avs had talent, skill and grit that season no doubt. It will forever be remembered as the "Steve Moore" season.
Dude, great video! This truly was the end of an era in hockey. The Avs then went on to fall into their darkest years, when eventually Joe Sakic was able to rebuild the team into a dynasty once again. Now the Avs are back to being one of the greatest teams in the league and a particularly interesting team to follow. Maybe 20 years from now there will be another video like this, which showcases the ups, downs and the history of this current era.
Never heard of this channel before. Really enjoying the idea for this series. I bet it requires a ton of research. I hope you do other episodes and focus on a variety of storylines: champions, underachievers, choke-artists, under-dogs, breakout stars and swan songs. As a Habs fan, I think an episode on the '93 Habs would be fun, the '09 Habs would be sad, and the '12 Habs would be dramatic.The 2020-2023 Habs would be insane as they set the record for injuries only to break it again the following season. Keep up the good work.
Great ideas for content and great execution
Amazing work, man!!
I love you're videos man, top tier stuff that should be on tv. For the playoff pasts series, i think you should cover the 1999 ecqf Between the Penguins and Devils. it was a surprisingly close series, and I think it would be a fun video. Just a suggestion
yet again another banger thanks for the vid 🙏
Another amazing video my dude
Great video, amd instant sub. I'd live to see you cover the flyers 2010 run to the finals. Was a playoff run I'll never forget, amd the fact that they made the playoffs on the final day against rival Rangers. Was a run for the ages.
Another banger series! This version of the Avs, in particular, always fascinates me. Also, who remembers Tommy Salo playing on this squad?
That was good. Real good definitely subscribing.
Awesome stuff! Would love to see a video on Forsberg. He was just insane in his prime.
46:47 I can’t see the name Hannan without hearing Rick Jeanerette yelling Dave Hannan at the top of his lungs and I’m not even a Sabres fan. Also great video. There’s a reason this style of video is a hit. Storytelling and smooth animation will always make for a pleasant viewing experience.
Great video bud!
awesome video like always
Sadly I'll be working during the premier, but I am definitely going to watch this as soon as I can.
Happy New Year Mr. Graham.
Great video!
awesome video man!!! please can you do a vid on the 07-08 stars please.
Another banger from Pinholio Grandma
I just started watching this and you (pinholes Graham) are the best sports documentarian I've ever seen. Thank you for this documentary.
Thank you for watching, Travis!
@@PinholesGraham thank you for making these documentaries because that's what they are. You have real talent.
What a video. It's perfect, really. You can't do much better than this when it comes to time-capsuling sports. The Jon Bois would be proud. His format, and the weight of his video, has unfortunately been ruined by SB nation. It fills me with so much nostalgia and joy to see you carry the torch the way you have. Please never stop!##
Thank you so much for the kind words and for watching! :)
I’ve watched 1 minute and this is one of the best looking/produced nhl videos I’ve seen , definitely has the Jon bois inspiration
Great format for telling this tragic tale. I like the time-line graphic a the core element. The news articles are an excellent supplement. Perhaps a bit more emotional narration would have been an improvement. No mention of Selane's subsequent knee surgery and rehab? He had a terrible season but was basically playing on one leg. Overall a great job. Thank you for creating this.
I will say, this editing style is basically the exact same as the fabulous Jon Bois over at SB Nation, not to take away from this work of course, im glad someone is being this thorough and attentive for hockey content :) But you'd probably love Jon Bois's videos as well, since he basically coined this style of sports documentaries. Even if you don't watch NFL or MLB, the history of the minnesota vikings and the seattle mariners are good enough to move you to tears
Another absolute heater. Maybe you could do a vid on the canes- devils series in 09?
Insanely good 💪 back then i was 23 years old, playing goalie since 14ten years. I am swiss native and for that a big david aebischer fan and patrick roy was one of my biggest rolemodels. So i was a big avs fan back than. I this vid you put together is just insane. One thing the avs theam was missing 03/04 was the insane team spirit. I mean, for ray borque, every player had played the hell out of ther minds, to get ray lifting the cup! They where on a mission for cup no2.
Cool format. Would be great to cover other seasons in this manner
Love this. great video man. What software did you use to make this video? I love this editing style.
Google Earth Pro! There's a tutorial by BobbyBroccoli here on KZhead that gives you all the tips you need to make something in this style!
Great editing on this man! Loved the newspaper use, where’s you find the old articles?
newspapers.com
My dad grew up watching the nordiques, saw the 2 cups in his college days, and a cup with me around recently. I’ve always been a huge avalanche fan, knowing most of the history of them during their 1996-2001 days, and 2014 onward. I knew about the Always Boo Bertuzzi rule including against his cousin at any avalanche home game, as well as the hit itself. This video, however, has allowed me to see, understand, and relate to what my dad and the rest of the fans were feeling throughout the season. The Bertuzzi incident was simply awful. The season itself was frustrating. In the start of the video, I heard Kariya and Teamu joining the Avalanche and was shocked, I genuinely never knew that. By the end of the video, I understood why. Thank you for your time to make this video, from a 19 year old Avalanche fan who missed a hell of a lot of history.
Thanks for all the kind words, David! I'm glad I was able to help fill you in on some Avs history :)
I would love to see this guy talk about the 2010 flyers. Anyways great vid!
i only just started the video but i already know that this vid deserves way more than 4,000 views
@49:32 those synergy sticks were fire. my older brother bought one, hated it, and gave it to me. my dad had to cut it down so I could use it since I was like 8. great times.
The 2003-2004 Colorado Avalanche with not only Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Rob Blake, Alex Tanguay, Adam Foote and then the signing of Teemu Selanne & Paul Kariya + later on trading for 2-time NHL All-Star goalie and 8-time IIHF medalist Tommy Salo! On paper this was just an incredible dream team, but I remember so well I had my serious doubt this team could win a Stanley Cup. A contender for sure but go all the way and win felt not likley. Offensive a very strong team, but the loss of ATG Patrick Roy replaced with a greenhorne goaltender would fall in heated battles. And Salo arrived late and was having his NHL career worst season both in Oilers and then the Avs so it did not help... And Teemu Selanne, a cool headed and most friendly guy was not treated well in Colorado and still to this day says that season was the worst time of his life... He felt the team never gave him support and Kariya was new like him so things was not well for the "Finnish Flash". He regrets ever having played for the Avs and that says a lot coming from him...
Anyone notice at 13:39 apparently the Flames allowed 654 goals in like 30 games 😂😂😂 loved the video!
more please. Jon Bois will never do a hockey video - you definitely have the same style/mood down as his videos. Amazing work.
Great documentary! I think this will be last super team we will see in the NHL for some time. The team just never jelled together with all the injuries.
Avs were my team as a kid and I always look back fondly on the 03-04 team. Obviously biased, but that was one of the greatest rosters that never could, I think
This was awesome. Can you do one on the 2006 Edmonton Oilers Stanley Cup final run. I have such fond memories of that one.
Great video very detailed and baller fr