The Forgotten Giant American WW2 Flying Boat - The PBM Mariner
2024 ж. 22 Мам.
70 749 Рет қаралды
Eclipsed in public memory by its smaller and less capable counterpart, the PBM Mariner was a significant step forward in the world of seaplanes. Being, at its inception, the largest twin-engined flying boat in the world, why has this classic aircraft fallen by the wayside?
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0:00 - 2:18 Intro
2:19 - 6:37 Prototype Stage
6:38 - 10:41 Variants and Early Use
10:42 - 13:40 Stories and Exports
13:41 - 15:48 Summary
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Hi, my wife’s uncle was killed during Korea while be a Radioman on a Mariner. They flew into the side of Fukushima Mountain while returning from Korea transporting personnel and materials. It was foggy out and the Navy never said it was pilots error or just an accident. RM3 Douglas Campbell was his name and I’m probably the only person now who knows of his memory. I never knew and my wife never knew him either, we were born much later. RIP Uncle Doug!!!
Sorry to hear that, unfortunately Japan is extremely mountainous so I suppose many American crews would not have been used to flying in those conditions. Well now I know Douglas Campbell too, and will endeavour not to forget him - RIP
@@aviationdeepdive Thank You 🙏
You’re not the only one who knows the story now! :)
She's a beauty, great design, the wing design is very bird like.
My late English father was lucky. He spent 4 years in Bermuda in WW2 as a Telegrapher in the Royal Navy. He said the only military he saw was a Martin Flying Boat flew over one day.
Loved seeing this PBM story. Dad flew it in late war years.
I had the good fortune of serving briefly during '65/'66 on the USS Currituck AV-7, a seaplane tender as seen at 5:00 in the video, we served the younger brother of the PBM, the P5M, of which I never tired of watching, taking off and landing, in and around the San Diego harbor. That naval aviation chapter came to a close in 1967 with the decommissioning of that really cool ship.
I remember seeing a bunch of those PBM's stored at NAS North Island in the mid 50's along with the carrier Bunker Hill .
That must have been quite a sight. What did the Bunker Hill look like? I heard she was badly damaged from combat against the Japanese, and was all burned up - quite a lot of sailors did not make it
I remember flying one out of North Island up to Camp Pendleton during the war.
@@neptunenavalmods4420Bunker Hill was fully repaired and recommissioned in September 1945 - ready for the November 1945 invasion of Japan, which fortunately for both sides, didn’t happen.
Thank you for making this video! My grandfather flew a PBM in WWII so I really enjoyed seeing this :)
That's really awesome!
You all have my applause! Thank you very much for making this video
Thankyou for the support! :)
Back in the '80s, a model builder constructed a beautiful R/C scale model of an early model PBM in New England. I saw it fly at the Brimfield, MA R/C float fly - smooth flier!
Wow, would have been nice to see that! Do you know if it's still around?
@@aviationdeepdive Sorry, I have not been to Brimfield since the late '80s. The builder must have been in his 50's then and may no longer be around today.
We have wreckage of one on Mt. Tamalpais here in Marin. I had never heard of it, but I hiked up there and there is a bunch of debris and a sign. The rangers really don't want anyone finding it. There was a B-17 that crashed on the other side of the mountain in Fairfax and two Corsairs as well. I came across a Corsair engine in a creek and it started my search for all of this, I had never heard about any of it!
That sounds totally fascinating, did you manage to get some engine parts in the end or did you leave it to the wild?
Very interesting, I wonder what went wrong. Did the crew get lost in bad weather? Like a lot of other people I first heard about the Mariner because of the Flight 19 Bermuda Triangle "disappearance" mentioned in this video - as the author says, it's too bad that the accidents overshadowed a great reputation.
The PBM Mariner just made it into WWII. The PB4Y "Privateer" based on the B-24 Liberator was the Navy's BIG land-based bomber, and the ugly maid-of-all reconnaissance and rescue work, the PBY Catalina had been in service about a dozen years, and was a fine (if slow) airplane and excellent seaplane in water. Seaplanes were the "Rodney Dangerfield's" of Naval Aviation, they got "No Respect" except from downed fliers in the water, or doing ree-cee work at the Battle of Midway. The pilots and crews that "drove" them prevented many "telegrams from the War Department" to carrier pilots and crews families-something the Japanese Naval fliers greatly respected and envied, especially since we pick-up thousands of their aircrew, including Kamikaze, and the Japanese pilots were amazed we treated them with real kindness and respect-far more than their OWN senior officers did. Sorry, didn't mean to "preach", but German, Italian and Japanese POW's lived in camps in Oklahoma and many other places, and many stayed in the US because "Americans are good-hearted people."
My late father-in-law was the bombardier/navigator on the second PBM 5 out of Banana River Naval Airstation in search of the lost Flight 19 squadron. He said they were flying time bombs because of the way fuel was carried on board. Luckily, his PBM was the one that came home. He also mentioned that the head on board was useless and they would use their dixie cup hats or paper bags to "doo" their business in and then chuck them out the windows when coming in for landings. PBMs were also known for bombing US subs also. Great video and brings back many moments of talking to my dad about his experiences.
Wow, fascinating to hear about the firsthand experience of serving on one - thanks for sharing!
My father echoed the same as yours. He wasn't very kind in his remembrance either. Flying fuel bombs replaced the luxurious living quarters. He was a Radioman/ Nav, always forgetting to reel in the trailing antenna. Dropping buoys and leaving before the sub could surface and shoot the slow flying plane down.
P.S. Dad's flight group was 215 I think.
I flewon the PBM5 from late 1955 to late 1956 at NAS Corpus Christi Texas we were an advanced flight training unit. We flew 8 hour navigation training flights over the Gulf of Mexico. I served as radio and radar operator during these flights, it was fin to fly on. Gettin us in and out of the waster was a very detailed operation , thanks for bringing attention to this old warbird
Wow, that's incredibly that you actually served on this aircraft - it must have been quite an experience. I'm really glad you enjoyed the video
There's just something about flying boats that appeals to me. I've loved them since I was a kid.
For sure!
One Mariner left at Pima, and the 3/8 model is still with the NASM (I think)
As mentioned in the video
@@Alexandros11 yep. I jumped the gun on that one There’s another Mariner in Lake Washington in Seattle, but a diver was killed in a recovery effort and now it’s going to stay where it is
Good one. A compliment to the PBY. Flying boats...so graceful. Escort fighters should have been Corsairs. Gull wing.
Kudos for the film footage of the 3/8 model. I’ve never seen that or much of the PBM still images you presented. Very well done video and not a rehashing of worn out images and data. Been an aviation buff for decades.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Honestly speaking, I am a sucker for flying boats. Usually I would agree 100% with your sentiment, but I never get tired of looking at photos and film of flying boats. Always nice to see more though. So I only agree 92% with your statement :D
Another great video! Very interesting to watch this in comparison to Rex's excellent coverage of the same plane - I enjoy both your offerings for their specific approach.
Great video!!! My father flew the PBM in the early 50s and later transitioned to the P5M working ASW operations. He loved it!
That's really awesome!
My father built (was an inspector) from 1939 into the P5M production after the war (1963). My uncle worked on the Martin Mars, another amazing aircraft. The PBM started out with .30 machine guns but they were ineffective against U-boats, so changed to.50 guns. The PBM could operate in sea and wind conditions the PBY could not. Much of the construction footage in this video were of B-26s. Martin just never seemed to catch a break on the publicity front. It made cutting edge aircraft. The B-10, pre WW2, PBM, Mars not to mention the B-26 and after the war, P5M and the P6M Seamaster. And there was the Martin Mauler that out performed the aircraft that was chosen instead the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. As well as the B-57 (a modified British design) and the B-51 which was a good aircraft but lost out on a contract. Martin then decided to concentrate on guided missiles, cruise missiles before their time. (I think Tomahawk missiles are assembled at the Dundalk MD plant today)
Very good video!
Thanks!
A well written and visualized presentation on this aircraft. Thank you
Nailed it again! Definitely one of my new favorite channels.. as long as you keep making them, (narration too :) I’ll keep watching them! 👍
A wonderful video with a great narrative and archival footage. Well done.
Glad you liked it!
well done, I was unfamiliar with this aircraft, now i am ! 😁
I fell in love with this plane and then it's relatives the Mars and the ultimate military flying boat the p6m seamaster! Daydreams about a PBM turned into a flying RV!
I love the PBM Mariner so much!
My father flew PBMs in WW11. Interestingly, they were really considered boats. The boat commander was the pilot. The plane captain on board was usually the flight engineer. I am looking at a photo of him and his crew (11) in front of a PBM3 on the ramp, Corpus Christi in ‘43. Dads2nd job was as photographer. I have reams of pictures from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Saipan, Eniwetok, and Singapore. His log book reads September 2, 1945, anchored in Tokyo Bay VJ Day. 1858hrs.Total time. Fair weather Dad.
He couldn’t stand the Wright 2600s. After adopting Pratt&Whitney R2800s, they had more power and reliability so critical.
Well done!
I always liked the PBM. When I was a kid in the late 40's and early 50's my dad was stationed at San Juan Naval Base PR. I remember PBY's taking off and landing at the airfield so they must have been the amphibians.
Nice video once again!
Thanks so much!
Great video!
Thanks!
Watched from Old Harbour Jamaica. During the war the US had a naval air station Just 3.5 miles south of my town call Little Goat Island. PBY's, Mariners use to be based their and one such was VP-206 who hale the base as the most comfortable advance base they were ever based. VP-32, who started out with PBY;s also stated that the Mariners were better. they also made one stop at Little Goat Island and sank the U-759 off the east coast of Jamaica. It is sad that only servive to this day.
Would be interesting to see a turboprop upgrade to this aircraft.
Look at the Japanese Navy aircraft. They use a four engine turboprop that has STOL ability the ShinMaywa US-2. I hear rumors the Navy may be considering seaplanes for supplying Marine forward island bases in the western Pacific for watching the Chinese PLAN. (testing the Japanese aircraft?) And special communications and power production equipment to support surveillance and long range targeting networks.) The Army special ops people have C-130s with Eldo floats for some operations.
Good video on a good flying boat.
Well done...I subscribed...I'm in Tucson so gonna go see it when it stops being 110 out.
Oh awesome, wish I was close enough to go and see it!
Thank you!
at 4:33, "fifteen tons of steel later, ... " Fifteen tons of steel? Or Aluminum? This has been an illuminating video for me. Thank you for producing and posting it. Just a quick note, while it seems strange to search from the air for ships that operate underwater, that is, submarines, at least half the subs destroyed by allied forces were either spotted by aircraft which directed surface ships to the sub or destroyed by the aircraft. This includes all types of aircraft. So it still makes sense to use aircraft to search for subs but using modern technology.
Ah yes I realised that mistake afterwards and thought if anyone noticed - so kudos for being switched on! Of course virtually no aircraft throughout history have been built with steel as it's significantly heavier, the Mariner was built with Aluminium.
Class video, have you seen that Martin Hawaii mars 2 for sale in Canada, I want it
I’m 6’ 4 and this thing made me feel how ants must feel next to a human
nice lines!
Anyone who built a Renwal kit of the US seaplane tender (lovely in her industriality) would remember the PBM, peanut butter & mayo ❤
I could see the building they were built in out my dad's backyard.
Great video well done! New subscriber
Thanks so much, really appreciate that!
My late father in law was a tail gunner in the Mariner in the Pacific. He was a small man who fit in the small space of the tail gun compartment. He, like a lot of word war II veterans were reluctant to talk about their experiences during the war but I know he lost crew mates to enemy fire. Thank you for this rare story on the Mariner. The videos of the yellow winged pair was CGI, right?
Wow, must have been quite an experience to be a tail gunner on a Mariner. Yes that's right, the videos with the vintage colouring and grainy aesthetic are CGI generated with War Thunder.
I'm still impressed this colossus was a twin.
If you think the PBM is large you should see the 4 engined PB2M. The gigantic Martin Mars flying boat.
The 'Coronado' should have replaced the 'Catalina' but the Navy wanted numbers. Later in the war, Boeing produced the 'XPBB', a high-performance twin-engined patrol bomber that used the basic wing of the Army's 'B-29' bomber: sadly, the 'B-29' program required both the wing and engines of the flying boat, so only the prototype 'X-PBB' was made.
Funny they are making a modern version of the Catalina for AFSOC.
That aircraft was the XPBB-1 Sea Ranger, and the plant that would've built the production version; if it had gone into production, was traded to the air force, and used for the B-29, and, in turn, the Navy purchased B-25s, and designated them as the PBJ.
Sorry, I, m late! Too much work, I watched the Video now. A HUGE MODERN FLYING BOAT FOR IT'S TIME IN SERVICE! I'm very impressed! I think, it was better than the British SUNDERLAND! Very supreme U. S. Technologie! Like this boat and your special video! Good Job!
Thanks, that's quite a debate starter - the Mariner vs the Sunderland. Personally I'm not sure which side I fall on, they were both excellent aircraft. Thanks for the comment Ralph, nice to hear from you!
The Mariner is a later generation than the Sunderland, the design advances between them being in that period over five years initiation.
@@uingaeoc3905 Thank You for Information! Didn't know that.
I'm old now, but growing up on a farm in the 70's I was talking to one of our neighbors, he told me he was a crewman on a mariner. I was like, "you must love to fly" or "your so lucky " He was like " f that, do you know how many hours I spent inside that fockin noisy tin can! 😅
Haha yeah I can see that these aircraft that we often look back fondly on, were probably thought of quite differently by the crews that operated them!
Dad would love seeing this, last year's of the war flying southern east coast. Burmuda, Banana River, Carolinas.
Oh wow, that's incredible. I always love hearing from people who's relatives had first hand experience, did he tell you any stories?
Not forgotten.
Honestly in public discourse it often is, you see a Catalina mentioned 50 times before you see the Mariner mentioned once
The PBM, otherwise known as the "Flying Gas-Can" after the amount of fuel it could carry. The problem was that the fuel tanks leaked and there was often a strong smell of aviation fumes inside the Mariners. The one that disappeared while searching for Flight 19 apparently exploded, quite likely due to gasoline-fume build-up and a spark of some sort. A nearby ship, the SS Gaines Mill, saw a fireball descending into the sea at around the time contact with the Mariner was lost. The ship headed to the crash site but there was nothing but an oil slick and some tiny pieces of debris left.
To me the PBY (Catalina) the best once it could land on solid ground. Not just roll up out of the water after a water landing. Gaining a military/naval contract was more BRIBE in the right place than quality of engineering. Always was, and might still be today. 12.7 mm = to .50 caliber. The U.S. White Star with the RED Meatball in the centre is Pre-1942. Later Mark loses the confusing to AAA gunner Red Ball, and eventually adds huge White Stripes. (Doin't to be confused with Japanese Aircraft).
Nice video/production for only having 1.5K subscribers….. make that 1.5K subscribers… plus one
Thanks so much! :)
I LOVE the old flying boats, My grandfather was an engineer at the Glenn L. Martin Company. The Japanese are still using and making new flying boats. If I had my way, I would buy a vintage flying boat and learn absolutely everything about one, When comfortable enough, I would kit it out for surfing. I want to live on a flying boat and use it to surf the best waves on the planet Earth.🏄🛩
Absolutely, an RV flying boat is the absolute dream! :)
Brit’s: it’s too hard to use for our tiny noodle arms. US Navy: fucking awesome, build me more.
😂
A great video. 15 tons Yes - Steel, I don't think so
nice video but there where also a lot of deadly accidents in Papua Nw Guinea in service Dutch naval aviation 1955-1962 they called it the flying dead coffin
Absolutely right. The Mariner had huge problems with internal leaking of fuel leading to a build up of fuel floating around within the fuselage, ultimately leading to fires which destroyed a number of aircraft. Martin were never able to cure this fault.
You just slid up into KZhead like you've always been here, didn't ya?
The living quarters make it like a flying recreational vehicle - sort of a “Wingabago”.
Fine video with excellent narration. You could safely and profitably ditch the New Age music track. Your voice and pacing can stand on their own.
Fair enough, I'll see how no music goes in the next video
I would think the even larger Martin Mars would better be described as the forgotten American giant. The true giant of the Martin lineup the Mars dwarfed the Mariner and only six examples of the Mars were ever built.
There is another PBM on display: The National Museum of Naval Aviation has one, as well.
No, that’s the same aircraft - it just gets loaned to different museums sometimes. There is only one fully preserved Mariner
I believe it was sometimes called"the flying gas can".
I can see why, it must have had an ungodly amount of fuel inside it!
The Tadpole Clipper was never funded by the navy, instead, Martin built it with their own money, and then the Navy ordered one example of the M-162, which they designated as the XPBM-1. Also, Martin wasn't struggling because of a lack of orders, instead, they were producing the A-29 Maryland, and the A-30 Baltimore for the British Commonwealth air forces, and Pan Am did buy the M-130 Clipper, which augmented the Boeing 314 Clipper.
The tadpole clipper was not funded by the Navy, I didn’t say it was. My sources imply that yes, Martin was not doing as well as they’d hoped and desperately wanted to secure the contract. The M-130 was to be used once it was built of course, but it lost the contracts and only 3 were built, Boeing got 4x more sales as they won the contract.
Unless I missed it, you didn't say a word about the large 'conning tower' bubble on the top of the forward fuselage. Otherwise a good video.
Not all Mariners had it, and for those that did a small plexiglass bubble is a pretty normal addition on Maritime reconnaissance aircraft
That is no bubble, instead, that's a radome for the search radar that was fitted to later variants.
@@johnosbourn4312 Oh, I didn’t realise he was referring to that. Yes, pretty standard radar addition
semper fi,,semper fortis
The other flying boat other than the PBY Catalina.
I think it was more to do with Britain having its own Short sunderland, why they didn't buy it.
Definitely could be a factor, but the official reason they gave is that they found is to tiring to control
The Sunderland was also more capable as it had a larger bomb capacity (and the ability to access the bombs in flight to set fuses). The Sunderland crew could also reload the bomb racks in flight which was useful for repeated attacks on U-boats).
@@allangibson8494 The Sunderland did not have a larger bomb capacity, the PBM Mariner could carry 8,000 lbs of bombs, the Sunderland couldd carry - the highest number I can find quoted for an internal load on the Sunderland is 4,960 lbs
@@aviationdeepdive The Mariner had a max capacity of 2000Lb of bombs with a full fuel load, it could carry heavier loads but then had a limited range with less fuel. The Sunderland also carried additional bombs/mines on the wings on top of its internal load, not surprising really as the Sunderland was the larger aircraft with the added benefit of 4 engines.
Oh dear, someone hasn't done their research upto and including the F model, the B-17 could carry 8,000lb of bombs externally plus a full internal load of 9,600lb of bombs. It's all there in the flight manuals. With 17,600lb of bombs you could fly a mission out to ,170 statute miles but 9nly at an altitude of 6,000ft or you could get up to 25,000ft but could could only carry it for 790 statute miles.
I said "more than early B-17s", B-17Fs only began to appear in mid-1942, four years after its introduction and seven years after it's first flight, so it was hardly an early version. Furthermore, I'm talking about the realistic bombloads that the aircraft could realistically carry, even the B-17G could only carry 8,000 lb on very short range missions no more than 400 miles.
@@aviationdeepdiveplease go and read my posting again as it clearly say "upto and including the F model" which means all of the early models of the B-17 had this capability. The B-17G and later models could not carry external stores. As these bomb loads are listed in the Pilot's Handbook, which is freely available on line, these bomb loads must be considered realistic bomb loads otherwise why put them in the manual? If you had said the typical or average bomb load of a B-17 then your point would have been perfectly valid and would have been ignored by me.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Well notice I didn't say 'maximum' bomb load, I just said 'bomb load' - which I assumed could be taken to mean the average. I don't have the Mariner handbook on hand, but we may discover that it too could could carry vastly more tonnage on short hops. That comparison is just the nominal standard load.
@@aviationdeepdive according the United States Naval Institute the Mariner's maximum bomb load was only 8,000lb and with no external bomb racks, that's the limit. So you were comparing a maximum bomb load against the not maximum bomb load. But if you want to compare typical bomb loads than the Mariner would have between 2,000lb and 4,00lb of bombs aboard. And just to be clear the figures quoted are for the B-17F.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 According to 'Britannica' the maximum bomb load for the B-17 is also 8,000 lbs, websites don't necessarily reflect the actual maximum capacity - as we've seen. Going so far as to include external racks isn't really relevant, comparing strictly internal bomb loads the B-17 could carry 8,000lbs, same as the Mariner, but only on missions less than 400 mi, whilst the Mariner as far as I can see had no such limitation. You are perhaps reading too much into, I was simply trying to show how large the Mariners bomb load is by showing that it could carry more bombs than B-17s virtually ever would.
I want the scale model!
I still have the one my Dad made for me when I was 7. He was a Navy pilot WWII.
One of these planes went missing in the Bermuda Triangle ✈️.. what is science explanation for this? 🤔
yeah, I covered that in the video!
So, soviets did not took an inspiration for Be-12? O.o Or is it another Li-2 or Tu-4? :|
A comparison often drawn! From what I can see its more of a case of convergent evolution as they were designed for essentially the same purpose - there could be some influence but the Be-6 was actually fundamentally built around quite a different platform than the Mariner, it was of a different generation and extremely complicated.
I'll just point out your thumbnails look exactly like Rex's Hangar's thumbnails... Otherwise great video
Hi, that really wasn't my intention - I'll try and switch it up to try and avoid confusion. Thanks for the comment
@@aviationdeepdive I know man, just thought I'd point it out! Its a good style, I can see why you use it
The Mars was even larger.
Better than a Boeing B-17 with only 2 engines.
Well, very different utilities so not really sure you can say it was better. The B-17 was far faster and better defended, with a higher ceiling - much better suited for long range bombing.
@@aviationdeepdive thank you for the video! As someone who has sailed on Middle River, I am of course biased. Also, I used to work for Boeing as a sub, and I can't stand the company.
I like ww2 planes
The guns where a 30 cal. I be awesome of these kind of channels gave both measurements. As half there people is the other then given
Hi, the guns were not .30 cals, but .50 cals (often referred to as 12.7mm). From now on I'll likely just do the measurements that's used in whatever country I'm covering
Is it just me or did George Lucas base his clone wars era clone attack dropships using the profile of this plane?
Nice video, and a nice plane. But unfortunately, I can´t stand these weird noises you put in, så bye.bye....
what weird noises
@@Alexandros11 I would´t go so far, but some might call it music...
Good video,was spoilt by the stupid music,
Nice stolen thumbnail :)