Division in the Hunting Community: Can We Unite?
We will always have different opinions, but is there a way for the hunting community to identify a few issues we agree on and build a foundation from there? Set aside differences to find a common thread and stand on common ground...Today we are tackling this challenging topic in what we believe is a very respectable conversation in attempt to unite, not divide hunters. #elkshape
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Matt Rinnella never wrote an article on Dan, someone else did and Hunt Quietly just talked about it. Which is standard outdoor media procedure.
Hey Dan, I’m not sure if you read all of these comments or will even remember me. I just stumbled onto your channel a few weeks ago and you talking about hoping you inspired people to get into hunting resonated with me. I was one of those people at your CrossFit gym in 2011 before I left for the Air Force at the end on 2012. I never hunted growing up and meeting/getting to know you at the gym really inspired me to want to get into hunting. I got my wife, a city girl from Southern California, into hunting and we have a daughter now who will grow up hunting. We’re station in Alaska and have harvested a caribou and two moose now. I just wanted to say thank you for inspiring me and the next generation of hunters in my family. If you’re even up in the Anchorage area, I’d love to see you again and grab a beer. - Collin
So much to unpack here about Rinella's comment(s). Some very true. Content = killing, killing = content. Very true statement. Influencers need only look at their interactions/likes/comments etc. Which of your content garners the most attention from your followers? A hunt, video from the shop, or maybe one from the range? Which of those 3 maybe went "viral?" Now considering that, an reasonable person who produces content *for a living* is going to consider what their followers "like." Also, manufacturers/companies want to push their product(s), and they the most bang for their buck. That most likely is going to involve an influencer who puts together multiple hunts annually, and/or includes others hunts as well on his platform(s). Not saying taking given, legal, opportunities here is wrong per say, but there's some things Influencers need to look at, recognize, and really evaluate if a truly honest conversation is to be had BY ALL. For years, people have been saying, "social media kills everything good." I guess influencers can ask themselves, if I was unable to document/produce this hunt, or than with pen & paper, would I buy these additional 3-4 tags? I think that would weed a lot of guys out.
What about film permits from USFS to make the films pushing products
As a firefighter in Atlanta, I used to be able to get all the land I wanted to hunt in the city, back in the late 90s early 2000s. Now that some KZheadrs have made that famous, it’s getting almost impossible to find a spot. Those boys were still in elementary school when I was doing this, so yeah, I’m a little bit mad at the situation. Social media has ruined that part of my hunting.
That is exactly the stuff Matt/hunt quietly speaks out against. Myself and friends have experienced the same here in Missouri because of THP…. Dan missed the mark on several points in this episode.
Back in the 90s my dad drew the gila ever 2-3 years. Now it’s 2-4%
Everybody has the right to hunt don’t be lazy and just be better than them it’s just excuses
A part of you secretly wants that advocation for it to the public, You have a KZhead account, you have a picture of yourself glassing on a ridge to give that “I get out there bro” effect. You try to use your I was doing this while you were in elementary as an argument that you should have all of the opportunity over someone else. I too have been a generational hunter over 5 generations including indigenous Cree Alberta. If my go to spot was that for 17 years. I’d be suggesting you’ve limited yourself to one area. That’s a you issue, not them.
Yep social media pretty much ruins everything when it comes to hunting.
I am a hunter and content consumer, but big picture here...... Matt is right on almost every front.
Exactly!
I’m not sure that telling Josh what your interpretation of what Matt Rinella is saying with the “hunt quietly” movement when Josh hasn’t heard it directly and then forms his own idea based on what he was told is the BEST conversation. This is effectively a game of “telephone” where you’re refuting a straw man argument that isn’t necessarily what Matt is saying. Don’t be scared… invite Matt on your podcast and do an interview. Directly refute the areas where you think he’s wrong and allow him to do the same with your positions. As far as Rogan goes… he can hunt wherever he wants and pay for whatever access he can afford. Where he went wrong (IMO) is his commenting “… Dumb f***, go to another trail head!” While it IS always an option… what if ALL of the trailheads in the unit you’ve drawn are all full of hunters and/or your unit is not highly populated with elk (& certainly not filled with elk like a big hunk of 80,000 private acres in Utah). I try not to comment in such an abrasive fashion on things that I know little to nothing about. Have the conversation with Matt & invite this whole crew.
I agree, I would like to see that conversation as well. Not just a pissing match but a legitimate discussion. Matt is literally the ONLY person openly talking about the biggest issues hunters are facing right now and the causes behind these issues. Is it just a coincidence that he is also the ONLY one who is not making any money from hunting? I don't think so. A lot of people don't want to hear it because all the hunting industry marketing dollars are spent pushing a completely different narrative that only benefits the growth of the industry. I personally believe the majority of the people involved in the hunting industry legitimately care and are probably "salt of the earth" type people but what I am really interested in is what is actually happening and real consequences. The points Matt brings up are legitimate and honestly the most pressing and important topics that should be discussed right now.
This topic goes deep and can be summarized with one word (RESPECT) the animals and the hate disappears.
I agree man. Pretty much every hunting group I am part of on social media...hunters are whining about other hunters. Cell cams are unethical, crossbows are cheating, private land hunters are deer farmers...the list goes on and on. It's wild. Just worry about your own hunt. You do you. Quit worrying what other people are doing. Just be happy that the person using a cell cam and a crossbow actually chooses to hunt, and not walk around the streets with a PETA sign. We gotta unite now or our way of life is doomed.
Yes. I was thinking the same thing. All I ever hear about is how bow hunters hurt deer. Crazy thing is rifle hunters talk amongst themselves about what caliber they don’t like because it injures deer. It’s sad and I wish every could get along. It’s like they always look for something negative to say. They never give support and condemn everyone on there. I hope it will change soon because we need to worry more about the people that are trying to stop hunting instead of fighting each other.
Are way of life is not doomed, the reason there is so much infighting now is because there are so many of us. Hunting land is becoming more and more scarce tags are harder to get because there's less animals and more hunters. Hunting is competitive it's why there's more and more problems and more hunters creates more problems, and less opportunities. But don't let ppl fool you hunting numbers are as healthy as ever
Hunters are mostly Alpha males ,same thing with the so called Patriot community but unlike the wolf pack, we work against each other instead of coming together and working together, lifting our community's up ,it might be the reason why our country can't unite and wright the ship
Why would someone hunting with a bow on public land be happy when the management areas get over run with cross bow hunters during archery season? I hunt in Florida so this isn’t an issue but it’s a very real issue in a lot of states.
Best take in this entire page of replies. I 100% agree
Love that you are addressing a long time problem amongst the hunting community. Unfortunately I don’t think the division will ever go away. Top four main problems: ego, greed, jealousy, and laziness, IMO. Keep spreading the positive message, and driving the message in the right direction.
Even if we triple the current number of 4% of the population to a 12% hunting population, we still don't have enough numbers to sway any vote. We don't have the available resources to add new hunters. IMO If we are "losing" hunters and we don't have enough current access for our current population, how are we supposed to add new hunters. Where are they going to go? These are legitimate questions that I have. I think this conversation could have been better by having guests with opposing views to discuss these topics. I respect both Dan and Cam's message on work ethic and discipline. I hope yall do more of this style of podcast.
The idea that there isn’t enough resources to sustain new hunting numbers is very regional. In NY state, we have to spent tax dollars to cull the deer population down every year, and that’s with the grow we have seen here over the last 5 years. But if we can hit 12%, think of how many people will know hunters can will vote to support people they know. Right now hunting is so out of sight of the masses it’s hard not to see why the laws are so anti-hunting.
These are points Matt Rinella brings up. We already have overcrowding, limited resources, and ever since KZhead and Instagram blew up and regions and units were shared, it's harder to draw tags. We now wait seven plus years to draw tags where just ten years ago it only took one or two. I always tell people the same thing. We're so far outnumbered. The way I try to make a difference is to talk to friends, family, coworkers who don't hunt. They have all supported me and my right to hunt and would vote with me. Discussions and changing minds is what will help us. I'd like to see Matt Rinella be invited on Elkshape for a discussion. Or the guys from Mountain Pursuit. Unfortunately for the KZhead and Instagram sensations, I tend to lean with "Hunt quietly." I don't understand why Rogan and Hanes can't public land. Don't wrap your truck with your name and brand. Don't post pics of your vehicles on social media. Don't announce your leaving for a trip. If Cam woke up and got in a truck nobody knows he had and left on a hunt to the mountains how would anyone know? Maybe a guy or two would run into him at the trailhead or back in a basin. Silly excuses to me.
So there you are talking uniting hunters then talk Sh*t about one of the greatest bow hunters around not one of you jer*s could keep up with him . Forget your uniting hunting crusade because you don’t practice what you preach . Watch Cams Show or Samoog outdoors or Brian Calls Gritty now that’s hunting oh and by the way I’m unsubscribing.
There is a massive disconnect happening here. The hunting community is so diverse, uniting it is not possible. It is a feel good conversation, but it is unrealistic. Why? People have different motivations for hunting and in many cases those are not compatible. There are always exceptions, but...... Even if a person started hunting out of family tradition or just a personal passion for it, once that person took their first $1 for hunting/gear, they are now a professional hunter and their motivation for hunting is forever changed as long as they continue to make money. If you make money to hunt or be part of the hunting industry you will approach the reasons behind why you hunt and how you hunt differently than if you are not a professional hunter. It is that simple. Once money is involved, everything changes. Professional hunting/hunters and the average hunter are always going to have compatibility issues because they are hunting for different reasons. They may also be hunting for some of the same reasons, but once money is in the equation, they are also hunting for very different reasons as well. Let's just be honest. This is a huge disconnect and many (not all) of the professional hunters have no clue how offensive they are to the non-professional hunters. Joe Rogan - his comments about the trailhead are ultra offensive to the average hunter. He has no clue how offensive those comments are - the disconnect between pro hunters and average hunters grows. There are multiple examples of pro hunters that offend average hunters and have no clue how out of touch they are - I would suggest those pro hunters don't care about the average hunters. I appreciate this podcast where we have some professional hunters talking that at least are very aware of the problem that exists.
Great discussion. Love to hear about a positive vision for the hunt community, As a Native American hunter, I've always avoided getting involved with hunt scene in dominant society because of the toxic and arrogant attitudes I see littered throughout. And for that reason I'm glad my hunting content on IG has stayed under the radar of the hunt community. I'm a meat hunter for sustainability, not trophy, and follow Native traditions passed down from Dad. A lot of non-hunters see and comment therefore I try and be a good ambassador to hunting. Over the years I've received lots of positive comments from vegans and city slickers alike and to me that's a win because they are the types who may side with us when it comes to voting for policy change. Keep inspiring Dan!
Man, loved this one! I have been trying to spread my love of hunting to my family and friends. And I hope they can spread their love down the younger generations as well.
This is one of the best podcasts I've heard, nice work fellas! Not an easy conversation but one we all need to have.
Something that I think about bringing everyone together is that everyone that I watch to better myself for hunting from traditional archery to long range rifle is that nobody does more than one I watch someone for traditional archery, someone for compound archery, someone for long range. So having one guy that posts about everything it would help to bring a lot of together.
Woulda been epic to have Tim on this “LETS UNITE PODCAST” things were a bit better when it was you & Tim . Very sad as a viewer to watch a let’s Unite podcast without Tim & Dan uniting 😢
💯 💯
Agree
It's way easier to tell other people to do something versus doing that thing yourself.
Facts
Having Tim on the channel for a few years was great! Saw him at the archery range a few weeks ago, we chat every time we see each other. Played pickle-ball with him this summer. Wanna know why? It's called mutual respect. Whatever your perception is... probably way off base. -DS
I'm 54 years old, I have always dreamed of Elk hunting out West, but had no idea how to start. I didn't have the means of just righting a check and going, but folks like ElkShape, Born and Raised and a few others get me the inspiration that with some work and attitude I can do this and 2 years ago I went on my first over the counter DIY hunt archer elk hunt, and had a blast. Last year my son was not able to go. My family would not let me go alone, so for the first time every I hired and outfitter on public land. That was fun to, in a different way but still fun! There are many ways to enjoy the passion of hunting and it is still hunting. I don't thing there is any one answer to this important topic, but I think the solutions will be found by doing what you are doing now, talking about it and inviting conversations, thank you!
Love conversation and I agree 100% we need to come together. It really hits home thinking about my dad and I hunting since i was 12. He paved the way for me and i am passing that along to my boys. I enjoy my boys shooting a deer more than me shooting one. Hope you have a great new year!
I think it would be wise for you to email Matt and get on the podcast... I'm sure he would be game
HUNTR podcast had a good interview with Matt. Check it out. Hes got some valid points. Hunting is gonna turn into a rich mans sport and eventually will be privatized everywhere. Good conversations to have though boys. Keep it up.
I think we are already starting to see that with the costs of bows, sights, rests, and everything going way up the last 5 years. The wealthy bored guys took up bowhunting and are driving the cost up with their deep pockets and disposable income. The average Joe is getting left behind and priced out of the market. Then we get to listen to guys with means that don't pay for their bows and gear tell us all we need to try harder...cool
Matt is a complete hypocrite. How many episodes of Meateater has be been on? And I’m sure he didn’t go on the show and use his lamas for free. Now he’s all holier than though and against everything he promoted by being on the show multiple years and seasons.
@rustyshackleford7285 yes, it's crazy some people can do things and then look around and see what's happening and change their mind.
@@josephr1198Changing your mind is understandable. Demonizing and attacking people for doing the same thing you did however is not.
@@rustyshackleford7285 how quickly you've changed your tune.
Great conversation guys. The division among the hunting community, gun community and archery has always boggled my mind. We are so small. We won't survive divided.
Great topic. This is why I love living in the south, everyone, men, women, children, all on social media gripping and grinning and no one says a word but congrats! I don’t know how anyone could question Dan or Cams genuine, real, intentions. I love watching both you guys. Keep doing your thing
I grew up not hunting at all. And over my lifetime (I’m now 40) have gone hunting three times ever. But I shot my first deer this year. And the same buddy who took me on my successful hunt gave me an entry level bow. I’m now hooked. I’m looking forward to next season where I’m going to go bow hunting for the first time. I didn’t know anyone in the archery community just two months ago. But I have been obsessed with learning. And have been absorbing everything from you guys as much as I can. You guys do a great deed for the community, never stop. I can say I’m going to be a product of your influence. Thank you.
You guys have been knocking it out of the park with the last few podcasts this one was amazing and i can definitely relate!!
Joe Rogan saying "Just find another trailhead" is like Marie Antoinette saying "Let them eat cake". I'm all for getting more people into hunting (and appreciate the challenge), but this really showed how little he actually knows about public land hunting.
You will never stop the internal sniping. Social media has made this disease front and center. Everyone wants to tell everyone else what and how to do something. The only way to have these disagreement discussions is in private and when you’re attacked, don’t give them the time of day. Good to have these discussions on the forum as reminders. Stay positive and don’t make public posts personally attacking those you disagree with.
Good podcast. I used to rifle hunt but switched to bow hunting for better hunting seasons. Love both and just love to hunt!
Perfect example of different sides coming together is Josh's joint interview with Ranch Fairy. Leaders of their own sides of the hunting industry having fun together and sharing their ideas while respecting the way the other side operates.
I honestly thought this was probably going to be the last time I watched and listened to you guys I was wrong. It's really about your true passion for hunting and it's not for everyone but for some it's that connection and those precious memories with nature and past Love ones. 😢
Thank you for complaining about hunters complaining about hunters and throwing fellow hunters under the bus we all feel a strong sense unity now.
For real lol
You guys brought it home, most of us grew up going hunting with our dads. I lost my dad a little over a year ago. We have a meat cooler, and family and friends bring there animals. My dad loved helping them cut up there animals. This year when our family and friends brought deer and elk it made me feel closer to him because he loved it. He called the cooler his office. Keep up the good work guys!
Dang guys, you hit the nail on the head. Unify and share your passion because it’s infectious.
This was a hard podcast to have. Sadly, the conversation isn't openly talked about. Except behind closed doors. Good on you guys for hopefully getting the ball rolling. Awesome, as always. Keep up the good work, gentlemen
Personally I'd like to see the small percentage of hunters have a serious conversation on ethical hunting & game management. We've all seen the trophy hunters who could care less about filling the freezer they just want clout & wall hangers or the guy who shoots every critter that moves even if they're low percentage shots.
I appreciate this POD cast. I'm a military veteren that spent most of my life overseas and did not get to hunt because of the price. I grew up hunting the same public land in Oklahoma. Truth be told I have only harvested 1 doe in my life. Being in Arizona now, I wish we could all get along and come together.
Loved the dad and hunting talk. I have 20 rounds of 30-06 with my dads ashes in the bullets and got my moose with 2 of those rounds and 1 nice buck, and it felt like he was a part of both those hunts He always wanted to do a moose hunt, but we never got a permit in the lottery to go. I finally got one, but dad had passed away for around 5 years by that time. So, thanks for bringing that up. It's a great way to build on a hunting community. Great talk about your dads and hunting traditions.
The last part of this podcast really hit home..my father wasn't into hunting so I didn't get into it until the age of 23(now 54) with my friend..who over time became my best friend, hunting mentor and at times a father figure..we lost him 3 months ago to pancreatic cancer..I feel LOST but never more driven to getit DONE this coming season..I'm already devastated that i will not be able to send pics to him or hunt with him..he has given me my greatest passion in life and I'll never be able to repay him 😢
Completely agree. We need to realize we can learn from each other's disciplines and apply tactics that a bow hunter would use in rifle, or driving tactics in bow hunting just as an example.
Great talk boys! We need this mindset throughout our hunting community!
This was one of the best conversations you had in a long time thank you guys
Love this conversation. Everyone should come together who is a hunter. Doesn't matter what equipment you use. Be proficient in your weapons so that your harvest is ethical. Public land or private, it does not matter. Same team!
Amount of animals and ability to hunt is always going to be the problem, hunting is getting more and more competitive because there's less and less of both of these things. Thats where all the issues lie.
This was refreshing and a extremely important conversation
I am in my mid thirties and am lucky enough to still be able to hunt with the previous generation. Every season is filled with stories talking about how they called up friends, family, and neighbors to help them pack out whatever elk they shot in an absolute black hole of a place, or how they stumbled into a stranger packing an elk out and stopped their hunt to help out... Then the conversation inevitably turns to the time some jerk ran out and put a tag on their elk before they had a chance to get there (stealing someone else's kill). As horrifying as that is, what this really demonstrates to me is how much hunting has changed from a community lifestyle to a "screw you, I'm going to get mine" mindset. My dad didn't hunt, so I went on my first big game trip with my then boyfriend, now husband. And my mentors have been friends, uncles, my Father-in-law, family friends, friends of family friends, and each one of them has freely given advice and encouragement. Every one of them has been happy to take me to their favorite spot, or help me dissect a situation where I made a mistake to help me become a better hunter. And I think we all owe it to ourselves and the others around us to perpetuate a positive community where each person holds themselves to a high standard. I want what they had, the security that another hunter they encounter is an ally rather than an enemy. And the only way to do that is to have these tough conversations and to be a better steward of this sport in the same way that they were. Strive to be like your mentor. And if your mentor sucked as a community member, strive to be better.
I’ve learned being happy for others in their success has made me a happier person. I still can’t stand the internet super hunters but I try not to pay them any kind. As far as being an influencer you all have a great platform to show conservation and habitat rehabilitation at work. Keep doing you and keep up the great work!
I have my Grandfather's knife, 22-250 and Stanley canteen. I also have his original black powder horn. These are some of my most cherished items. I say a prayer every year on opening day, Thanking GOD for him and and what he taught me. My two daughters just took their hunter education course this month and my youngest(10) will be harvesting her first deer this year with a crossbow. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL!!!
33:07 One of the best moments of this cat. Spot on. Great point Dan
This is a great conversation. I like the fact that you guys brought up the controversial topics and situations. We definitely need to unite as hunters instead of being divided. The conversation about dads really hit home for me. Thanks for the podcast. Have a happy new year!
I found elk shape 5 years ago recovering from a diverticulitis surgery. They removed 7 inches of my large intestine. Had 2 other surgeries a year after the first one. Took me 3 more years to be able to really workout without issues. It’s because of Dan and cam that I went out to hunt for my first time ever. It was fun and a learning experience I was unsuccessful but that’s okay. I learned a lot. Will definitely be doing it again. And before all that I was listing to Joe talking about archery so he’s another reason why I tried archery. But thanks Dan for all that you do.
Cam Hanes is the reason i bow hunt now. I grew up in NY never hunted. No archery experience. I thought hunters drank beer and sat in a stand with a bud light. It was HUSH and cam KZhead channel that made me see it as a sport for extreme athletes. Protect provide and inspire. Don’t put any energy into what your enemies see.
I commented over a year ago to Seek One (KZheadrs) who posted a pic on KZhead of about 10 dead does in the back of a trailer that looked really bad for us hunters. It was a bad decision to post that pic!!
Spot on and great podcast episode 🤙🏽
Honest. Transparent. Truth. Nobody else does it like you guys.
💯 % agree , I think sometimes they don't realize when the post on social media it's comes off the wrong way to some hunters ,regardless of whether they mean it or not . We need to unite as hunters no matter social status ,in the end, it's the hunt that matters. Also, not just elk all species for hunters.
Great point Dan about groups like pita and others being well organized I think we make it easier for them by not uniting. But in all fairness, most of us, appreciate the hunting fishing lifestyle are the kind of people that would rather be on our own anyway.😊
Great conversation between a couple dudes I love to watch. There is underlying component to the “hunt quietly” movement that you did touch on that needs more context. The algorithm is really is the enemy. Kill content will almost ALWAYS trump woodsmanship content or realistic “boring” content showing hours of nothing, so there is validity to MR’s points. Views create growth, which creates attention to a game species or geographic area, which creates competition for animals or tags that might not have been there before. So as a content creator making a living in that arena, it is difficult at best to not want growth through the most effective algorithm…MFJJ is unique in being the bridge between archery technique/ pro shop knowledge and applying to hunting vs hunting/ kill only content.
Great talk. I run into hunters on public land every year and feel like the last few years, more hunters are sharing your mindset on uniting and being on the same team to help other hunters out. As opposed to the typical "what are you doing here huntin' my spot?!" like I use to get every year. I think your conversations such as this are getting to the right people and the message is getting out there, so keep doing what you all are doing. And for those who get upset when you get to a trailhead and its packed, walked a mile in and you will get away from 95% of hunters, never fails.
I’ve noticed the same thing. It seems to be the younger generation that is much more willing to work with other hunters to share public space, as opposed to claiming an area. I feel the awareness that social media has brought to public land opportunities has made it much busier but hunters seem to be much more willing to share an area
I started taking my son to the woods with me since age 3. Not ideal carrying ground blind, blanket, big buddy heater, etc. But I wouldn't change anything. Fast forward, he's 17 now and is a hunting fool with bow and gun. He talks to his friends constantly about how fun hunting is. We have invited his friends over to try shooting bow with us. I've been shooting since I was 9 and worked as a bow tech for 10 years in the 90's and have a bow or two 😉. I am happy to say that we have taught 4 kids this year to shoot bows and they all hunted the 2023 season. I sold 2 of them bows and supplied another that couldn't afford it for bow season. I have put out at the schools that any kid that wants to learn to shoot, to contact me. I have 2 Genesis bows that I set up for this purpose. I can't tell you how good it feels to see a young person drop by with the deer they harvested that you trained 6 mos ago.
Good job guys! We share a lot of the same sentiments and hunting philosophy. Continue to positively promote hunting regardless of style or method (as long as it’s legal). I think it’s okay to be competitive amongst ourselves as long as it’s respectful and we keep the big picture in mind. Also, MFJJ, please keep up the tech tips, how to’s and reviews! Much appreciated! Lead on gentleman!
Luv the topic and podcast
I agree that people should have more opportunities in the hunting industry. Here’s one example: I called podium archer to see about buying a Mathews bow not realizing that they can’t be shipped but the guy I talked with asked if I had a lease in Kansas and I told him that I was a resident with some private property and really good public that doesn’t get much pressure and we talked a minute and hung up. I got to thinking about the idea of having him come out here if he wanted to so called back and told him if he wanted to come out I can get him on some good property but lodging and meals were on him. My offer stands open for him.
Great Podcast Dan and Josh. Keep God first in all you do. I was very lucky to Hunt and film with Cam H. Nate S The Eastmans Fitzgeralds Rodger R Mark & Terry Drury Lisa E Bow R. It was a blessing Love to come out and visit with you guys Gods Blessing
Great podcast. This has long been a frustration of mine that I fear one day will be our demise. Anti hunting groups are so well organized with a common goal where the hunting community unfortunately is so divided by insignificant things often driven by a narrow opinions driven by ego’s. I would love to see hunters come together around one main goal which is to protect hunting in every form for now & future generations. The problem is at times that may require us all to put aside our ego’s & selfish desires for the greater good which defies human nature.
Really good stuff❤ thank you!
One of your best podcast guys. Couldn't agree more about the topics and also the meaning of hunting to you guys. The outdoors is my sanctuary and we're I am at peace with myself. I hunt just because of my grandfather and great grandfather. It is who we are and it puts meat on the family table. Not sure out there if your schools have 4h sharpshooter. Were kids after school have trap, archery and 22 rifle shooting. If so donate and even just show up and shoot with the kids. Might help getting more into the sport. I donated and had professional archer show up to shoot and to teach the kids.
First, I love the content. Dan you do it right. I love Josh's reviews and bow builds. Second, Cam should pull a Brian Bosworth. If you remember when the Boz played for the Seahawks, the Boz came up with a t-shirt that hated on himself and had them sold at Mile High Stadium because he hated John Elway (and I really don't think the Boz hated Elway) but used it to sell thousands of t-shirts right in Elway's backyard! It was brilliant! As a die hard Bronco fan and Colorado native, this was brilliant. Cam, come up with a t-shirt or hoodie that takes a shot at yourself and turn this into a $$$ grab! 3rd, Matt Rinella, really...? Why is the cat getting any time on our airwaves! Now to the issue at hand. I've archery hunted for 30 years. I've harvested many animals... I love archery and all hunting activity. The DOW, here in CO, is mismanaging the land, wildlife and overall management of the process. Now, the STUPID voters of CO, voted to spend $3 million dollars to reintroduce wolves with no plan to manage them properly. And, spent money on a program that was NOT needed..... wolves are already here! That money could have been spent for other management needs ... like, timber clearing in areas where Beatle kill is huge and the threat a wild fires are a potential devastating threat to habit, etc. Lastly, you guys do it right... those that hate have nothing in their lives of value! Don't give them your energy!
Dan, who introduced you to hunting? At what age? And what do you value the most from that endeavor? This is a big piece of the puzzle regarding the current climate within the outdoor world
Great conversation, needs to be had more often. I remember when Jim Zumbo from outdoor life said you shouldn’t hunt with AR’s. His career ended that day because the mentality was we’re all hunters even if we don’t do it the same! Afterwards I remember him being invited on other shows to be”educated” on the efficacy of hunting with AR’s in an attempt to bring him back in the fold. Ya, the trail heads are busy but when I see it I just say to my self “ I just got too work harder, think smarter, out hunt them! If ya want it bad enough go get it, it’s out there, only thing holding you back is your own pessimism!
Excellent comment.
Sure, there is tribal division inside the hunting community but the division of most concern is INARGUABLY the division between the interests of the hunting INDUSTRY vs the interests of the hunting COMMUNITY. This is the division that is never directly addressed by hunting influencers. With the exception of Matt Rinella, every single hunting influencer or individual who currently has a "voice" is tied to the interests hunting industry in one way or another and is required to push the idea that we need more hunters and that those hunters should use the very best gear in order to save hunting... The narrative is that more hunters = more advocates, more voters, more people buying tags etc. Its not a conspiracy, the hunting industry just needs to grow every year, that is just how business works. That is why it is uncommon to see hunting influencers supporting traditional hunting equipment and methods. More hunters with more advanced gear is not a recipe for preserving our hunting heritage. In western states it is easy to see the negative affect that this agenda is having on hunting. I like the idea of finding common ground and I hope that a mainstream hunting influencers really start looking at the effects of putting the interests of growing the hunting industry over genuinely preserving our hunting heritage. As of right now hunters should really take a look at what Mat Rinella trying to explain to the hunting community because the agenda coming from the "Hunt Quietly" group is the ONLY agenda that is 100% for hunters and not tied to the hunting industry in any way.
I disagree that a lot of hunters would love to have the chance to hunt a farm raised ranch elk. That’s killing not hunting. The journey is just as if not more important than the harvesting of an animal
Great topic! Like I was taught, there are those who have and those who don't. Work your butt off so that you can have the most that you can afford. Off topic; what are those skulls on the wall?
I agree with 75% of what Matt stands for. Is he radical in some ways? Sure. But he has forces people to look at how they conduct themselves and ask tough questions. He is ultimately concerned with the future of NON PAY TO PLAY and I align completely. I’m an unashamed supporter of the Hunt Quietly movement because it must be talk about and it is critical to the future of good hunting in the United States.
Matt Rinella’s message is getting traction and that’s a good thing. If you influencers weren’t worried, you wouldn’t talk about it. RRR can take a hike.
I really enjoyed this conversation. I like you guys. 👍
Thank you
It Is a logical fallacy that more hunters helps hunters or hunting. It is also a logical fallacy that more hunters leads to more opportunity (just look at draw odds) And people like Rogan, who has never hunted, whining about people pointing these things out is laughable. I listened to his and Cams podcast (shame on Cam for sitting there and not defending his fellow hunters) and all they did was the same things he whined about others doing.
I've been a fan of Joe for years but people seem to gloss over the fact that he's only been hunting a few years after Cam and Dudley turned him on to it. He's never done public or DIY its always been hosted stuff and private with guides and premium gear. Am I jealous, hell yes I am. But...sometimes he talks out of his ass. But we all do.
I don’t think Matt did a dissertation on you. Maybe you will retract that allegation? He discussed this episode on his Hunt Quietly podcast recently. I watch hunting content but I also think Matt is onto something regarding the pressure caused by too many hunters and decreasing land access. The land situation will only get worse.
awesome video, keep them coming!
Sold all my archery equipment 5 yrs.ago when I moved because I was aging and my 13 yr old son took no interest in hunting. Fast forward 5 yrs and my son got into shooting and ask me to teach him to hunt. Which I did but he had to buy his equipment because I just didn't have the money to buy his. He invested and I showed him how to scout and we found spots on public land in south carolina, he ended up killing a buck with his rifle and now he to my joy is hooked. So much so he bought a leftover mathews bow and I am teaching him archery . He may be on his own tho,I am able so far to come up with funds to buy archery equipment. Price has just become unattainable for some of us.
Great video you should do more of this types of videos.
Dan, great topic and much appreciate the risk in discussing this issue. Maybe you need better guests. Blaming State wildlife agencies right out of the gate is the wrong approach. As you pointed out its a multi-dimensional problem. keep at it. i think you are on to something here.
Enjoyed this podcast mate. For what it is worth, here's my two cents. We all come from different socioeconomic, educational, family value, political, religious backgrounds (add whatever you want to that list). Because of this, we all have our own reasons for hunting and take different things from it. The bickering I see on the socials from the influencers that make their livelihoods from the hunting industry, are rewarded for making that noise. It generates more clicks, more followers, forming alliances, etc. It feeds straight into to core of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They get safety (emotional and financial security), belonging (friendship, even if that is fickle e-friendship), social needs and esteem (respect and admiration from other keyboard warriors). Because of this, you'll always have people trying to knock people down a rung. We call it the tall poppy syndrome in Australia. It refers to successful people being criticized. This occurs when their peers believe they are too successful, or are bragging about their success. Intense scrutiny and criticism of such a person is termed as "cutting down the tall poppy". I met a cool bunch of like minded people at a hunting camp earlier this year that were from a diverse set of backgrounds and upbringings. We got to build friendships and mutual respect for each other, along with where they are in their own hunting journeys, by sharing time and stories with each other. It wasn't about one upping each other, rather building the "collective team" and supporting what, why and where we were all at. Building those networks and growing together as hunters will in my opinion, mitigate some of the tall poppy syndrome. You'll never be able to do that across the spectrum of people who hunt, so you just got the chip away a little by little. I am a first generation hunter, who picked up a bow in his late 30's, and I can't articulate how much archery hunting lights my fire. I am also somewhat reserved in what I am willing the share with the general public. It was only a handful of years ago I felt comfortable enough to post hunting photos and videos on the socials as I was concerned for my professional career that I had built over two decades. I was concerned about the 30% that you guys talked about on the podcast, and the trend in cancel culture. I can sit here today and say that I have been welcomed into the hunting community by genuine, kind and respectful people. Yet as irrelevant as I am, I have also had a few swipes come my way with comments like "you haven't earned your stripes". Those karnts (said in a thick Aussie accent) can respectively go fornicate themselves. I didn't give them the time, nor gratification, to dignify their comments with a response. Sometimes the influencers in the industry, as Josh eluded to with Cam, need to rise above and forget about that noise, and unite the majority that collectively raise the bar.
From an Aussie military veteran who use to work in the adaptive sports industry full of egos and what we call tall poppy syndrome the only way to solve it is create a sense of belonging or tribe identity within your culture. It worked for a while here in my program then it got taken over. It’s hard work to maintain however I had to keep reminding myself it’s about others not me I wanted to create an environment where the toxicity was left aside. On a side note I visit USA twice a year and happy to provide some volunteer help as I’m just getting into this archery thingo I’ll do anything even be the water boy and I don’t have an ego 😂 Cheers mates
What people have forgotten is that its ok to disagree. We all have a common interest but some have different views on how to go about said interest. I live in western Kentucky and bow hunt white tail on public land so I can't speak on the tag issue you guys have but I do know what it's like to have public land fill up quick and yes sometimes it a pain but at the end of the day we should all be grateful for opportunities we have. Effort doesn't always mean success it's hunting not killing
Josh’s rant from 25:50-26:55 is a sound bite that all hunters need to hear
I understand Matt Rinella's point tho. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, because i do feel like a show like Meateater has done way more good than bad, even if they are selling products. Steven Rinealla has done wonders to bring a positive light back to hunting and I am grateful for that. There was a time where being a provider was looked at as being a great thing, and guys like Steve and Cam have shown a lot of young men that there is real virtue in that. I am not sure if that was your goal but you have done that too, Dan. Staying in a shape to hunt in order to provide for your family. Showcasing that is a good thing.
Social media accessibility and everyone’s ability to freely share has painted an inaccurate picture to the rest of the hunting community. All of us midwesterners want that giant bull and limited tag but few of us understand or have an appreciation for how many years those familiar have been waiting for that chance and put the work in. I have hunted an OTC tag in Utah for 2 straight years in an area where there are “no elk” and seen both elk and mule deer both times and been at full draw two years in a row. I was thrilled and lived in reality and willing to learn and put in the work. The issue is the lazy hunter wanting all the glory without the work. We were raised to hunt differently than those coming up now and some of our new hunters just want it easy. Not all, but some. Social media needs more failed hunts and less of what we see now. On a side note, love Cam but NEVER looked at him as a hunter first. I’ve been inspired by a middle aged man trying to outrun Father Time and stay in the game as long as possible, which is what all of us whether we hunt or not, should aspire to do.
I have been a big fan of both podium, archer and elk shaped, but watching this podcast kind of lets me know where y’all have your mindset. Hunting for you is a paid to play operation and the way you see it if you have the money then you can do what you want but for the average Joe look like myself, whose family for generations has lived off the land and now it is become almost impossible to feed your family the entire year, without going to the store, and living in a state, like Kansas, who continuously molds, and builds their regulations to cater to the out-of-state hunters while making it more difficult for their own residence, just just goes to show what’s wrong with the hunting community. In general I will agree. Most of it comes down to mismanagement by fishing game department, but it’s all bought and paid for by people like you who’s gonna afford to pay the prices which pushes out those who may be residence and should have first access to tag available
Congrats to Jeff! Seems like a good guy, so best of luck to him.
Appreciate you man!
Culture, not just the hunting culture, makes a celebrity out of high profile people. The unfortunate reality of that is the inconvenience it brings to the visible individuals. I enjoy the information and hunts you provide, however, and don't take this personally, you aren't a celebrity to me. You are a knowledgeable person willing to share your expertise. Having said that, I caution you to avoid the pitfalls that can befall someone recognizable in a small industry. Don't expect privilege. Additionally, know that you are appreciated for your expertise. I look forward to visiting Spokane Archery next spring when I'm turkey hunting nearby, but I'm not stopping by to see anyone. I look to perusing the archery shop and learning what might be available. Heck I might buy a bow for to ship to me in Arkansas. Keep putting on your pants one leg at a time. Best wishes and happy new year from an "old gun."
Really glad this podcast took place. I’d be interested to see what the average age of the new hunters are within the past three years of growth. I think there is a chance that the growth we’ve seen could be a fad. I think lots of new hunters are going to realize how hard it is and not have the motivation or discipline to continue after a couple seasons. Long-term this might just be a spike, and then the numbers will continue to decline.
Agreed. My husband doesn't have social media, but watches some KZhead hunting videos and the other day out of nowhere he said "hunting seems like it's turning into a fad." I would bet a ton of 25 to 40 year olds are new and that is the target audience of hunting influencers and the people who attend their camps they put on. That would increase the average age of hunters. I don't believe there are fewer hunters. Areas we used to draw every year or every other now take seven years and when you do draw it's hard to get away from people. It all started after Eastman's blew up and got substantially worse after the introduction of Instagram and KZhead. My husband and I and our Dad's have watched all the tags get harder to draw and the woods get more crowded since then. I tend to agree with a lot of what Matt Rinella has to say. The hunting experience for current and lifelong hunters is going downhill. I doubt many newbies stick it out.
Well said. Comparison is the thief of all joy.
I believe that the “10,000 ft view” of hunting is important to keep in perspective when analyzing “issues” within the hunting community and the opponents of hunting altogether. I honestly respect you and what you do but honestly Matt Rinella’s message resonates because in some way his perspective has more weight. That weight is important to developing the ethos around hunting and right now we need all the help we can get with that job. I think that you and Cam mean different things altogether to the hunting story and ethos, than Matt or Shane Mahoney from Wild Harvest initiative. It’s an apples and oranges situation. You focus on inspiring people to get after it and discover what they are capable of. Empowerment, discipline, and fun. A guy like Shane Mahoney( who you should familiarize yourself with if you are not aware of him) drives the bus on the conservation of hunting. What hunting means from a socio-economic view and tells the story of how hunting maintains, develops and protects the beautiful places and animals that we admire, respect and harvest. Thanks for being respectful and not just shitting on a guy(Matt)that means well. I hope he’d do the same. Like you said, we need to be collaborative and united to protect the traditions of hunting and public land. That being said, I’ll give you some constructive criticism that you have not agreed to recieve ;), spend more time familiarizing yourself with the conservation side of hunting and imagining how a better future for hunting and America might come to be. As a influencer, believe it or not, the information you distribute has more weight so beware of falling into a “1,000 ft view”. See the big picture and continue to become a better versed and passionate steward/ advocate for the things you believe. Thanks for all that you do. I honestly appreciate what you do for hunting.
Opportunities exist to introduce inexperienced hunters to the sport. All of us experienced hunters that have 20+ years experience take an inexperienced hunter, regardless of their age (not just our kids) and put them in the best situation to hunt and be successful. When you are at the range help inexperienced people to become more successful. Show that progress and success that in just a few hours and you can give someone the basics and then encourage them to do the work.
Idea to share with you Dan on where we can start.... where you can start as one that has larger voice then most of us. Reach out to Matt Rinela. See if you can find common ground. See if Matt can recognize you, as well has him, want to solve issues. Maybe it can evolve into a podcast on commonality and positive directions. Imagine if we can get one small common step and build from there. Just an idea.
Very good perspective,
6:45 am sitting in my office sipping coffee and listening to this. 😅
Constructive: Where did the case study comment go? Should we leave it up to understand more?
On the subject of hunter quantity shrinking or growing, it's my understanding that hunter quantity nationwide was declining until recently but the decline was fueled by eastern hunters. I think most western hunters would say that hunter quantity has been growing for at least a decade. Watching Randy Newberg on KZhead is what got me going again after 20+years between big game hunts.
Unite: Everyone thats big into hunting in each category should get together, do a team hunt of multiple guys and multiple teams. Crossbow, Compound, Recurve, etc..
10:00 Could there be an argument made on the amount of hunters having an impact numbers for animals? Maybe not an overnight impact but as the sport grows, could that have long term effects on animal population.