Is Euro Nymphing Really Fly Fishing?
2024 ж. 15 Сәу.
49 039 Рет қаралды
After Kelly received countless questions his road tour about euro nymphing and competition angling, he decided to sit down and share his thoughts.
How do you feel? Leave your thoughts in the comments below.
What euro nymphing really does, much more than indicator fishing or dry fly, or whatever, is acquaint the angler with the structure and flows of the deep runs. Even if one is not going to euro forever, the learning you get about drifts, speed of deep current, bottom structure, hydrodynamics, and so forth is absolutely invaluable to every other style of fishing. And it catches a ton of fish in situations where nobody else catches anything.
@@paigeloomis You're not in direct contact with the bottom, nor in straight contact with the fish when it takes. Most fish are tight to the bottom, and often just out of fast water, and a chubby can't fish fast water effectively at all. You're missing a lot, and you don't know it yet. If you're happy with a dry-dropper, that's fine. But if you want more, you're going to have to go full euro.
@@paigeloomis The chernobyl ant will create weight on your lifted line. That will impede your contact, and increase things like wind interference and tip drag on the rod. And because the chernobyl is fixed at a particular point, you can't fully follow the bottom contours like you need to. What you need to do is to feel the bottom directly through your rod, and see it directly through your weightless sighter on your line -- if you want to learn more about the contours below. But if you're happy, then hey, be happy. I'm just saying that there's more to learn if you're willing to find it out. You'll also find that there's no thrill like the direct contact you get when a big fish takes. Here's something else: you likely don't realize just how many fish are below your rod tip, or a very short distance out. The tendency is to want to cast out, rather than to explore what's at your feet. And there are more fish than you imagine right beneath your rod tip.
@@paigeloomis Always. Nice talking to you.
The problem for me is that indeed it DOES catch a ton of fish. And the trout are getting hammered as a result. One of the better known rivers in my region is very popular with Euronymphers and the fish are often in sad shape.
I’m curious about euro vs moss. Do you go with lighter flies and keep the drifts shorter? I’m thinking the upper fly is mostly staying out of it. Here in Colorado, we can get a lot of moss growing on rocks in late winter.
A big fan of Kelly and his straight talking views, of which in the main I agree with and one of the few I can listen too at length. This one I’m afraid is a bit wide of the mark for me and if serious shows a lack of knowledge of competitive fly fishing . “Euro” is one method that is wildly used in competition and when practiced at a high level is in some aspects more difficult than a lot of methods that utilise more fly line . Outside of maybe the top 10% of anglers in the US at least, “Euro” in the states seems to some degree to have become slinging overweight flys and even shot / indicators on all mono rigs- a long way from its roots and all prohibited under the rules in an actual FIPS event. The fact is that at world and Euro level , to succeed you need a high level of ability in all aspects of fly fishing , including being able to adapt to non game fish like Chub / Dace or common European whitefish . It’s as far from a Euro nymph world championship as you can get. The part of this post that probably pushed my buttons the most is the divisive nature of it - one group of people who stick hooks in fish for fun one way throwing bricks at a group who do it differently, a very dangerous path these days and very prevalent in the comments. If at some point the “Anti’s” come for our right to fish they won’t distinguish between a Comp angler who thinks he’s the best in the world because he can flick tungsten , a spider swinger who thinks he’s morally superior because he sticks his fish on cane or a meat chucker who occasionally makes them wear it when they didn’t eat it, they will come for us all as “sport fishers”, and in some countries that is sadly much closer than we think . On a different note I’ve called into the Slide inn about 10 times in the past hoping to meet the man himself, think he’s been fishing every single time…. Probably Euroing the S##T out the Maddison 😂
Here here!
All he said was not to get stuck fishing only one style, and you took that very personally.
@@Taylor-zq1ki Not at all , my only objection is to the misinformed comments about world level competition . Maybe for genuine reasons , maybe to be inflammatory or maybe just badly edited and a bit misleading, either way uncharacteristically inaccurate for mr G. I don’t expect everyone to “like” competition angling but in an ideal world I personally think all anglers should stick together rather than taking shots based on an opinion or a preference. Doesn’t really change my level of respect for his significant contributions to the sport but equally I’m entitled to my own much more experienced opinion when it comes down to whats required at world level and its 100% not just “Euro”. Still hoping to meet Kelly in person one day.
Gentlemen, Mr. Croston knows what he is talking about for a fact! I understand why he may have taken this a bit personally, however, he has some very valid points, and has every right to his opinion. A well rounded angler and especially an angler that just loves to fish will fish with a shoestring and a fresh cut limb in a mud puddle after a fresh rain just to keep it honest! I myself fish any and all methods I can to just enjoy my time on the water, sure I have my preferences, but that doesn’t mean the fish will always eat what I’m throwing, and being somewhat intelligent, I switch it up. I agree 100% with Mr. Croston that those that would take away the rights to fish absolutely will not differentiate between one specific type of angler over another. Mr. Croston, if you read this, I would like to thank you for your contribution to our sport as well, absolutely in love with my Hardy ultralight rods and my Hardy reels, by far some of the best I’ve ever had the pleasure of using.
Euro is widely used in competition in part due to the current rules of fly fishing competitions. With that said, there are times when getting deep, regardless of how you do it, is the best way to catch fish. I agree with Kelly that I would love to see a competition which included some of the other styles that get left off the table.
The first time I heard the term "fly fishing competition," I thought the guy was joking. He had a very dry sense of humour. For me, about 30% of fly fishing's appeal is being ALONE on the water somewhere. 😂
Same reason I love how popular the southern catskills have gotten. The northern catskills have been all but abandoned. You can fish the good steams without seeing another person all season. They're all in Roscoe and Hancock! It is insane to me how few fly fishermen you will see on the north side of the range. Literally none most years. I only feel bad for all the shops that shut down
Dad tells a story about drinking in a bar in Livingston one night in the eighties, BSing with a couple older locals. On the subject of a huge brown mounted on the wall the one local says he caught it on a royal wulff. "That's right" says the other guy, " you never fished anything else hardly. A size 6 wasn't it?" "Yep. Couldn't ever see those damn little 8s"
I took up euronymphing a couple years ago years and really enjoy it. I also love dry fly fishing. That said, I just don’t understand all the smack talk that euronymphing isn’t fly fishing, and yet a bounce rig under a bobber is.
Years ago the old guys complained that nymphing wasn't real fly fishing. It's just "get off my lawn" style cranky old guys yelling at clouds. Fish how you like to fish and ignore the peanut gallery.
Aup and greetings from across the pond 🇬🇧 Firstly I'm not a competition angler, I'm not good enough. I am a pleasure angler who follows the match scene purely to improve my own knowledge to help me catch fish. Some of the best naturalists I've had the pleasure of meeting are competion anglers who have an uncanny ability to read the water and the enviroment around them to help them catch fish. Not really sure what you guys & girls get up to your side of the water but we can fish all different disciplines many times a day folliwing the fish up and down in the water column. There's no point fishing a weighted nymph if the fish are taking drys and buzzers in the top 12 inches of water. It's the ability to read and anticipate the environment were fishing in that makes good anglers. As the purist would say there matching the hatch. Its just the hatch usually starts at the bottom of the water column. Tight lines all 😊
Fishing is fishing. Get out and fish.
Agreed. No reason to be judging people for how they get enjoyment fishing. I did comps for an awhile and met great people and learned new streamer, dry, and loch style tips so I’m not sure what he’s talking about that it’s euro only. To each their own.
If you don’t care how people do it then don’t upload the video.
Fishing is fishing but tying my own flies is what makes me happy. Fly fishing is my favorite.
Fishing is fishing. Nice words of wizdumb Confucius. Youre all walk the walk guy no talk about fishing just get out there and go fish who cares about talking? Then what the F!! Are you doing on KZhead in the comment section? Youre obviously from California huh? You’re like I don’t see why there’s never any reason to go outside and fish. In some places it’s below freezing and in some places there’s this thing called “run off” when huge amounts of snow pack melts and huge amounts of water runs off making fishing not worth the time.
What about dynamite? What about telephones? 🐠
Thank you Kelly. Great take on this way of fishing. Never been a great fan of competition in fly fishing. Have a great summer.
Damn! You really poked the bear with this one! Thanks for loads of great tying vids and for being honest about your opinion,
Spot on, love the varied comments too. Make it a multi-level thing including Euro, Stillwater, and Tenkara, watch people lose their s**t. Why does everything need to be competitive?? What floats my boat is the variety of places, fish, and the art form that fly fishing encompasses. My former father in law was British, fished cane, used silk line, tied his own flies. The effort that produced his eventual catches and the peace it gave him doing it inspired me to try the sport. I now do as much of it as I can get away with, and I realllllly enjoy floating as well (both rivers and lakes). My winters are spent joyfully tying, trying new methods and materials, reading and watching fishing videos. Might we also include multiple species fishing in a world champion competition? Say for instance saltwater, pike, bass, carp? I agree with Kelly about it being whatever suits your mood, just go do it, get out there, fish and enjoy! Good grief, get a grip folks!
Mr. Gallup. I enjoyed your comments in this vid and agree with most. But, there's always a but right..lol! As a tyer of euro flys, I do put soul into it. There are many "standard" patterns, and I honed my skills there. As you grow as a tyer, you learn where you can add or take away. You start to envision the bug, as it drifts. My stonefly imitations have become works of art to me. And the locals who want them, can't find them anywhere else. They do have soul brother. I guess it comes from just being a guy in a little place who ties. I enjoy all the disciplines of fly fishing. I also tye trolling and bass flys. Soul is all of them. Thanks for all the cool vids. I live in the Catskills of NY. Get to do it all here and love it. If you ever get out this way maybe we can hit the river together. I have a page on FB called Rock Bottom Fishing. Check it out if you get a chance. Tight lines!
I wanted to know more about fly fishing competitions so I went to see a competition that was taking place here in Canada a few years ago. It’s certainly not my type of fishing but I have a different look at those who compete. They used several techniques, several types of flies and managed to catch fish where local fishermen did not. It was in reading the river, their knowledge, the quality of the presentations, the precision of the casts that they impressed me.
They aren’t restricted to just euro nymphing in the competitions. They are expert in all aspects of fly fishing and have to be to be effective across all of the different water types and conditions. The perception that competition fly fishing is just based on euro nymphing is wrong. Innovation in our sport is awesome. Let’s not get hung up on the wrong things.
Kelly talking nonsense. Dude doesn’t know shit Comp fishing is all styles and lake fishing. You can’t euronymph lakes Kelly. Don’t know why he made a video presenting incorrect information to people.
Kelly is awesome. Tells it like it is. Hope to see you on the river someday, and I most likely will be using one of your streamers.
I couldn't agree more. Euro nymphing reminds me of nymphing before strike indicators, but the flies and leaders are different. I try to master each kind of fly fishing and have fun doing it.
Thanks, I don’t feel so old or opinionated after listening to you.
This video is what I’ve learned over I would say the last 3 years. I’ve worked on many techniques throughout fishing, and love exploring new places because it requires you to fish differently.
💯👍🙌 I totally agree and very well said Sir. Thank You.😊
Fantastic! Kelly should start the Fly Fishing Olympics! Hold all kinds of events even for us "Non purists" that use tiny streamer dropshots with Euro rods and mono tightline it through a run. Making things competitive sucks. It's just fishing folks. Have fun, learn lots, and watch out for the Terrys and Karens of the world!
I think what you’re not grasping is the fact that many people like to fish. Some love it and some are obsessed. Those of us that are “passionate” or “obsessed” are the ones that strive to be called “the best”, and there has to be a competitive angle. Not only that, but people who think that all we do is “Euro Nymphing” have no idea what competition fishing is. You can’t be “good” at one thing to win, you have to be great at all disciplines of FF to even have a chance of qualifying, which is still a long shot. After becoming great and well-versed, you still need to stars to align in your favor. You don’t get it, that’s okay, but to think that people are competing for any other reason than they love it is small-minded.
@@user-te6dk5zi6uI’m very passionate about fly fishing. I’m constantly experimenting with fly tying, rigs and everything in between. But I feel no need to compete or be called “the best”. My challenge lately is a small group of young ff’ers at my job that I’m mentoring. I get a big kick out of that. 😊👊
Awesome video! Well you certainly got everyone stirred up.🤣 Well done! Best!
The comments about the championships are kinda naive. I’ve seen guys in competitions fish all disciplines. The idea is to catch fish, and they use what is needed.
100% agree. The elite competition guys must be well rounded to be successful. Not much different than competition bass fishermen in that regard.
It’s actually ignorant of him to make that statement without knowing more about competitions. They actually do fish all styles. The Spanish are some the best dry fly fishermen in the world. Not to mention it’s not just all river fishing. They fish lakes as well.
Kelly is pissed and I'm laughing my ass off right now, 😂😂😂. I'm intrigued by the loch competitions. Looks like a ton of fun if you ask me.
@@RoryLynott Loch style comps are great fun, give it a go! Lakes are way harder to read than rivers, so many factors to consider and we succeed or fail based on our decisions on the water. It's also a really social way to fish, you get to share a boat with plenty of other anglers and learn a lot. :)
Obviously you have never seen fly fishing competition
I compete, and I will say, in competitions I use all methods of fly fishing. Not just tight lining. All the guys on team USA also implore all the methods, it just so happens that often the best method for conditions is tight lining. I got beat in a comp last year by a guy fishing dry dropper. I don’t own a shop so I’d never comment on what it’s like to be a shop owner. My guess is Kelly has never competed, I may be wrong, but there’s a hell of a lot more going on than just tight lining. Half of the comps are on lakes. So you have to understand still waters and different line set ups to get to the fish. You have to be a pretty well rounded angler to be a good competitor. My 2 cents.
100%
Well stated. Exactly what I was going to bring up. Lance Egan was winning one fly comps on drys , casting comps and ESPN outdoor games before and during his team USA years. He and all the comp guys are very accomplished Stillwater guys too.
He’s not saying that they don’t use all four rather that they should be required to use four tactics minimum.
@@northeasternflyno he’s saying competition fishing is BS. He has a right to that opinion.
@@northeasternfly You use the tactic for the right conditions. This is no different than any other angling sport. Why would I "require" someone to use a tactic that is not right for the conditions?
Well said just be a well rounded angler love your channel your always straight and to the point
I think that euro flies do t carry the same artistic and impressionistic qualities. Let’s face it, fly tying is an art form. I got a euro set up last year and went out with a friend that is renowned in the western fly fishing world like you, Kelly. He showed me how to euro nymph and I immediately caught nice fish. But it isn’t where I began my journey with fly tying and fishing so I’m back to drop shot nymphing with flies that have soul! Thanks for all your awesome content!
Hahaha love it! They have no soul! Also, you should host a competition for the 4 disciplines! I could think of no one better, and the location in SW Montana would be quintessentially perfect. Like hosting the ultimate fly fishing competition in the Mecca of fly fishing.
I have not been fishing for near as long as Kelly, but here is my take...and a story to go with. I should note, I'm not a competition angler or guide. I do Euro fish a ton (tight line nymphing that is) and have been fishing for a long time. I'm just a regular angler like so many of us out there. Hopefully this story, and perspective, will be useful and reduce some confusion and/or anger about Euro nymphing. Maybe it will...maybe it won't. But is has helped others in the past. So hear goes... To start, I agree with everything Kelly had to say and I've had the same question(s) but on the water just as much as at shows and conventions. Based off my experiences, and having had several years of being asked the same question(s), I believe I have come to what I think peoples confusion about Euro nymphing is based off of. It comes more from what I've learned on the water than at the shows. Here is why and a real experience to help illustrate. I was wade fishing and was on a river with a ton of brush. From the car to the water took me 30 minutes. Once I got to the water I ran into 2 guys who were already there. They were very nice despite I had accidentally scared the crap out of them. The brush was so thick that I wasn't able to move up or down river without having to retreat back in the brush. Turns out they were floating in a boat and said they were just wrapping up and I could fish once they were done. Very cool of them, and so I sat on the edge and waited. I sat on the side and watched as these two fished. Both were indicator nymphing. Their cast was fine...just a water load, but their drift was terrible. Both had constant drag on their lines and they would pick up about the time their line would get in front of them. This of course never gave enough time for their flies to reach any kind of depth (plus the drag). Well, they finished and both reeled in. They went over to their boat, put their gear away, and then invited me to start fishing. So I did. I hoped up and un-hooked my fly. They both immediately said the same thing. "WFT??? Not another Euro fisher!!!" They went on for a bit.... I waited and simply said, "yeah I know. It's got a bad reputation with some people." They seemed to appreciate the comment. So I started fishing. First cast, on the drop, and virtually right where one of the men had been fishing, fish on. Both men lost it! They couldn't believe I caught a fish on the first cast. I reeled it in and then they called me over to their boat and began rattling me with questions...same questions Kelly had been describing. Only difference is that I had demonstrated this techniques effectiveness right in front of them. I won't go into it so I'm not writing a novel, but I answered all their questions. Ok, so my point. Their concerns, and I find this to be with everyone, is that they had heard Euro nymphing was this ultimate style of fishing. They also heard that is was the best/only way to catch fish on a regular basis. They didn't have ambitions of becoming competitive anglers, but they were very concerned with if they were going to have to use Euro nymphing tactics in order to catch fish! This of course is non-sense. Like Kelly said, all 4 main forms of "fly fishing" can, and will, catch you fish. It is situational based (this is a deep conversation) and is dependent on the anglers abilities to fish that particular style. I have learned that angler ability (or lack of) is the cause for "fear about Euro nymphing" simply put. To wrap up my story....what did I do then? I showed them how to catch fish with their indictor rigs. I got one of the gentleman to land a fish, and the other to hook one but didn't land it. I then told them they should look into Euro nymphing, but reminded them that it was simply just another way to catch fish. I also reminded them to practice their indicator fishing. From there they got into their boat, offered me some bug spray (which I took them up on), and they headed down river. Euro nymphing is not to be feared, cussed about, or whatever. Will it be another "flash in the pan" with popularity? I don't know. I'm still going to fish the technique regardless. It is simply another way to fish. Lastly, I really value something I've heard Kelly say in his videos for years, and I find he is exactly right. "The more arrows in your quiver the better you are." Best saying I've heard about fly fishing. Just keep learning and keep fishing! You da man Kelly! Cheers!
Nice response. I use traditional fly gear, Tenkara, and ul spin gear and go back and forth between them to do it all. Euro Nymphing is similar to drop shot techniques and has been practiced for at least a 100 years that we know of.
Competition breeds innovation. You can thank competitive angling for recent innovations in fly tying, stronger tippets, better leader systems, redesigned rods to handle light tippet, etc.... You don't have to like competitive angling, but you may want to realize that you are probably benefiting more from competitive angling than you know if you've purchased anything in the last 5 yrs from a fly shop. These things may not have started in competitive angling (it's not lost on us that JH was doing something similar before most of us were even born), but learning about competitive angling helped my fishing tremendously without ever having to enter a competition in my life.
Hey Kelly, I've been trout fishing for nearly 70 years. I'm down with what you said. The best fly fisherman is a ten year old kid with garden hackle because no one is having more fun. When I was 12 I was looking at a collection of wet flies and I was sure the names gave them magic. They're still magic,
Having been on the staff of some international comps I have to disagree with Kelly on a couple of points. I have seen anglers win a session only using dry flies. Others used streamers, dry droppers and nymph setups with success. Yes, Euro is the most popular and most effective most of the time in comps but not always. Every high level competitor I have watched is much more than a Euro nympher.
I dunno about the opinion on competition. Am I not a ski racers if I only ski gates, or only ski x-country? Do I have to compete in DH, GS, XC, Jumping and Biathalon to be a complete competitor? I like that fly fishing competitions exist, just as the Kayak Bass tour exists too.
I fell in love with swinging wet flies in MT. I live in CO and was wondering if the technique is specific to certain areas or if it can work wherever it is executed properly? Had so much success in MT and haven't been able to crack the code here in CO.
It works everywhere. Especially streams and rivers where there are more bait fish in the river... just my opinion.
Sure, I am a Colorado angler and wet flies work great in Colorado. Try soft hackles, perhaps a partridge and Orange (sizes 12 & 14) or a peacock body with a dun hen hackle (sizes 14, 16, 18) A Tiemco 100 hook (and others) is fine with this. When you get good at that, try an upstream wet fly technique.
Never change Kelly!
I had a small booklet, maybe 30-40 pages I bought back in the late 60’s or early 70’s. It was about flys and tying em! In that book was a description of a weighted jig fly method which he fished with a long ultra light spinning rod not a fly rod. One of his favourite flys was the Gimp which he tied on a lead weighted # 12 or 14 jig hook typical of the period! So it did not start as Euro Nymphing but as ultra light open faced spin fishing! He claimed it was very effective and showed pictures of multiple large trout he caught as evidence! It is a matter of opinion if it is more effective with a fly rod! I think an ultra light open faced spinning rod may have advantages? Your choice!
One dimension?! Every comp fisher I know in addition to euro nymping uses drys, dry droppers, streamer fishing, jigging streamers, and fishes lakes from boats and banks in comps as well. These are some of the most well rounded anglers I know. They use different techniques based on the location, temp, time of year, water depth, hatches, etc, etc etc. Maybe go to a comp and watch what they do before forming an opinion. You might be surprised.
I really appreciated this take by Kelly. As a fly angler, my thing is to fly fish in many ways and have fun. I like drift boat indicator nymphing, dry flies, swinging using my trout spey rod and stripping streamers and tight line nymphing ala Ted Fay too. It's ALL fun when applicable to the water you are fishing. I like moving water best but really have fun on still waters too. I like FLY FISHING...You are a great role model Kelly. I choose to follow your example!
It's not real fly fishing unless you arrive by horseback and braid your own line from the horse's tail.
Learning how to Euro Nymph sometimes is the difference between a good day and a bad day. It is really a good tool for catching trout it’s the way flyfishing has evolved.
Guys with modern graphite rods and flies tied in Sri Lankan sweatshops whine about "traditional fly fishing". It's all a joke.
I use the mono rig for tight line nymphing. And streamers. And dries. You have to be versatile.
My mentor was a classic wet fly and nymph fly tyer. So that's what I learned. I'm learning euro techniques now. I feel it's important to be a well rounded fly fisherman.
Winter sticking around pretty long in MT looks like! 😂
Winter never started in Montana this year. Rivers will be closed, go to Colorado.
@@willhenslee9712 Sorry we are closed to tourists this yr, also.
Its funny because some euro guys like George Daniel say something similar about fly fishing. George said that euro nymphing can get in the way of beginers develpment because it's so effective. They won't want to do anything else.
I've read several competition reports from the World Fly Fishing Championship and the events included both river and lake sessions. On the river the competitor carries multiple rods with various set-ups including, nymphing, dry dropper and dry fly. For the lake the competitor could be on a boat or located along the shore, again carrying multiple rods with different line set-ups. I'm not familiar with local competitions, perhaps they are only river sessions. Kelly seems a bit uneducated on these World Fly Fishing Championship events and how they are conducted.
Yep he have no clue and just make competition angler looking shit 😂 good job.
Although in the competition anglers may choose to use whatever style within rules, the focus is on number of fish caught. I understood Kelly's point was to also add the dimension of technique to be used and have focused sessions for each technique. This nuance would tease out the most well-rounded angler.
@@skyleawood2649 One could also make the argument that the best well-rounded angler would be the one that selects the best technique for the conditions. While the count of the number of fish in the World Fly Fishing Championship more greatly influences the anglers score, length is also a factor adding additional points. I myself want to become a more well-rounded angler so I took Kelly's Streamer class last fall ... imagine the stories that he tells every night while you are having dinner with him.
@skyleawood2649 the thing is what defines a comp angler skill and quality isn't winning one comp but been always within the top end of every comp. If you look at top level comp anglers like French, Spanish and other constantly good nations the reason why they are always good. Is because they build up they adapting capabilities. Doesn't mater what technique, what species is targeted ( stay fresh water in the matter as never been involved in salt water I can't speak ) they will be at the top most likely. They are all good at nymphing for sure. But have a look at the last session Pierre pulled out on past year world cup ( video online) you will realise most of us comp or not have a lot to learn from thos guys that managed to master all techniques. Doing good once you need to be good in one thing. Doing good all the time you need to know it all 😅
Thank you Kelly I agree with you
ALRIGHT!!!! KG posting up in the paint & going hard to the hole. I am definitely on board with the " no soul" view......SOOOOOOO KG🙏 As usual, some very well thought out and articulated views, All from one of the leaders in his profession w MANY facets to his impressive leadership mojo. Don't go changing Dude👏👏👏👏👏👏
I agree with the comments about the fly fishing competition. Although competitors may use multi techniques/disciplines, the focus on numbers is unidimensional and forces most to choose euro nymphing technique. Fyi...you were right...i'm now geeking out on trout spey but using one-handed technique and a 3wt sage esn. It's a blast! And thanks, Kelly, as always - your euro trash hippie friend from Phoenix !
Yeah but for some reason my euro set up is not working to well in my lake sessions even though I'm chasing numbers.
Respect always being real.
Well said, hope everything is going well stay safe and enjoy life☕️☕️
I absolutely agree with him. Apart from the type of flies, whether or not using fly lines would also affect the outcome. Mono rigs offer greater advantages in nymphing, sometimes in streamer fishing as well.
Couldn't agree with this video any more. Love it Kelly.
Hi Kelly, thanks for sharing and thank you for your streamer techniques which I find very interesting. However, I wanted to point out that there are a number of assumptions that you make here which are just factually incorrect, and usually seem to be made by people who have never actually fished in a competition. Firstly, comp fishing is not all euro-nymphing, far from it. Yes euro-nymphing is definitely a core technique but it is just one arrow in the quiver, a good comp angler needs to be effective at ALL techniques. I fish comps in Australia, and if I could describe for you fishing in the most recent national championships, we had 5 x 3hr sessions, 2 of them on rivers, 2 of them lakes from a boat (loch style), and 1 small lake from the bank. Over those sessions I caught 9 fish in the lakes and 20 in the rivers. The 9 lake fish were all on either streamers or wet flies. The river fish were 11 euro nymphing, 7 on nymph under dry, 1 swinging a streamer and 1 on dry fly. It is not unusual depending on the river for an angler to catch at least half of their fish on dries. I recently did a workshop with 2 former members of the Spanish team, former world champions. Yes they are incredibly skilled euro nymphers, but I assure you that their dry fly fishing is also truly amazing, as is their technique across all the conventional fly line tactics. I don't know about your comp scene over there, but I can assure you that on the world stage successful comp anglers are very well rounded and skillful across all techniques, and will use whichever is the appropriate technique for the water they are given. Comp fishing is not for everyone that's for sure, but from my perspective it's a fantastic way to develop your angling skills, it's a humbling experience, and it's great fun. I've met some great friends and had a blast doing it, I don't understand why people feel the need to put it down when they have never actually tried it. Or perhaps they have, but got their arse handed to them and then never came back, that happens sometimes too......Cheers from Oz! :)
Your last sentence about people trying it and getting beat then going sour on it is bang on. Do one comp, get your ass kicked then it’s all “it’s just not what fly fishings about”. Wouldn’t say that if they won it. Most of us got our ass kicked when we started (and still sometimes do) but it’s a great way to keep learning.
@@OnTheFlyNZ Haha, true! 😂
Well said Peachy
Same can be said for those distance casters!! Yeah...guess it's cool you can shoot that far and make the goofy stance ....but can you cast with accuracy and catch fish?!
Just was nymphing in Bishop CA, and then was on the CA delta fly fishing with a spinning rod for bass, b/c my fly rod broke ... still had a blast. Fishing is fishing from the "purest" form the kookage it takes to keep going. Just have fun and set a hook 😂
Agree with Kelly 100% also most o of the new fly fisherman dont even learn how to fly cast at 20 /30 feet as they believe they can be just fine fishing under the tip of the rod
I’m sure lance egan, Devin Olson, or George Daniel could all give Kelly a run for his money in whatever discipline
I euro nymph a lot. I also indicator nymph, streamer fish, fish hatch matching dry fly fishing, mouse at night, swing flies for steelhead, fish poppers for smallmouth, etc. I think a good point is made that being pigeonholed into one tactic (any tactic) and using that tactic exclusively, limits you as an angler. Everyone fishes for fun and different people have fun doing different things. However, someone that is a great euro nympher but doesn’t know how to do much else is not a great angler, they are a great euro nympher. Someone who fishes exclusively with streamers is not a great angler either, they are a great streamer angler. Point is if you want to be a great angler (or maybe the term well rounded angler should be used) you not only need to know how to utilize many different techniques but also when/why to employ them. That is what has been lost today for so many and euro nymphing is merely the latest single focus craze. A decade ago it was guys that spent every single second throwing big streamers on a sink tip but didn’t know how to fish a dry or setup a nymph rig. The problem is not any one technique…..it’s the exclusivity of only knowing one technique.
Well stated, with you 100%. I also believe that when you add in the fly tying aspect of this hobby we all love so much, it follows suit. A “well rounded” fly tyer also has skill sets with Euro-style nymphs, dry flies (traditional Catskill and more modern), wets, and streamers. But again, if doing just one thing brings you joy on the water, please please have it, all the power to you. Peace and love!!
You realize that it is a slippery slope to define an impossible good angler, right? Are you a good angler if you didn't catch a lot of fish in saltwater? Not just Atlantic but Pacific too. How about alpine lakes? Or are you a good angler if you have not done Siearra Grand Slam? Are you a good angler if you cannot spey cast to 90' on both shoulder?
Where can I find that blue book? Whats the title?
Keeping it real. That's why I tune in. Thank you!
Ah man but Kelly what if I just love the mop fly on a euro rig! Haha Im pretty well rounded though too. I agree- dont ever change!
I guess this means I should stop looking for the 4 part series on the wonders of Tenkara? Buried in all the saltiness (which was awesome) is the point. Strive for expertise in all aspects of our sport/pastime/reason for living. Being the best javelin thrower is noteworthy. Winning the decathlon is pretty damn amazing.
I come to the same conclusion as Howard Croston a few comments below. Dear Kelly, I‘m a passionate fly fisher using a number of fly lines that you have designed, they’re great, you’re one of the masterminds of our sport. This video of yours unfortunately is of the mark. My comment would be deleted by KZhead exceeding the allowed word limit if I listed all the lessons that I have learned from competition anglers such as Howard Croston, Lance Egan or Devin Olsen let alone the many European Competition Anglers which do NOT pertain to nymph fishing but dry fly or streamer fishing…….
Well said!
I agree Kelly !!
I euro nymph with a 7 ft ultralight and 4lb test spinning rod ..very effective🎉
There can be competitions with any number of ways of keeping score. Any number of events. If you don’t like comp, make a new event. “I don’t care at all, but also it’s a crock of shit and I hate it” is … certainly a take.
I totally agree went fishing last week in North Yorkshire probably 15 people fishing the bung I don’t see how this can be Fly Fishing John UK
I agree with the preference for versatility. But the same critique could be levelled at bobber fishing with fly line and 9' leaders. (nevermind Euro). Consider this: A stout (e.g., 20 pound Maxima) 25 foot mono-rig can let you contact nymph, fish dry-dropper, streamers, or even just throw dries. That's actually way MORE versatile than many fly-line based traditional styles. So we shouldn't necessarily think the old ways are the best.
Great post . I clinch knot my mono rig to my floating fly line, for when the occasion rises.
Kelly was looking for the subscribe button to be hit. I think he just got a few more on his take on euro nymph fishing. I personally love that he is a no bull shit type of guy. That being said I will be on the Madison in July euro nymphing my ass off along with drys indicator and yes I will hook a brown on a streamer in July 😂
Having taken up Euronymphing, I find it almost fly fishing. It's closer to doodle-socking, dapping, Tenkara. It has nothing like the wave-action and flow of throwing fly line. It's quite different.
Can't help but chime in. But first, a disclaimer: I have nothing against competitive fly fishers, and acknowledge that competitions cultivate some exceptionally well-rounded anglers. I recently took note of the words of John Atherton regarding the nature of fly fishing, as it was, in the early post-war period of the late 40's. One detail he mentions is that fly fishing was inherently not competitive. I think that speaks to the nature of the criticism regarding the modern world of competitive fly fishing; there's something about it that is contrary to the roots of the sport. There's something about the fixation with catching as many fish as possible in a given session that challenges tradition. I own several euro rods and enjoy keeping up with the pace of innovation in that arena, but recently, while waiting for a Hendrickson hatch to come off, looking for rising targets with my dry fly rod, I watched a euro nympher work a run above me and it was an interesting vignette of the controversy. He waded quickly through water that would soon hold rising fish to hammer a swift run, quickly taking 3 fish before moving on. In one way, it's the fishing equivalent of driving around with your middle finger raised. I get it, I've been that guy, and likely will be again at some point. But as I get older, and spend more time on the water, I realize more that I'm a steward of a tradition. I'm a steward not because I choose to be, but because everyone who picks up a fly rod and attempts to fool a trout inherits the stewardship. I don't fault the euro nympher who fished above me or begrudge his chosen method and timing, but I do hope that from time to time, he picks up a dry fly rod, or swings a wet fly, or nymphs with a tastefully named, bead-less classic.
Big fan of Kelly’s videos and love the comment that perdigons don’t have soul because it’s true and hilarious. Though just straight up wrong on the idea that the top comp anglers are one dimensional. If you are really good at euro and not good at other methods you will get your ass kicked at worlds. Everyone at worlds is good at nymphing, it’s adapting and using other methods at the right time that separates the top anglers from the bottom. Could even go as far as saying that comp angling forces you to learn and get really good at every method. You can do okay at a regional level nymphing but if you want to be competitive at worlds or consistent at any level you are forced to excel at all methods. Also each championship has at least one lake session (usually more). Every comp angler has to be good at Loch Style fly fishing which is arguably one of the most traditional OG styles of fly fishing and goes back centuries. A lot of the people saying comp anglers are one dimensional probably don’t even know what loch style fly fishing is or only fish rivers. But one of the coolest things about competition fly fishing is you don’t have to like it.
Dunno what Lough Fishing you do mate but many of the Lough patterns used by the top Anglers are more modern than the Perdigon. Most popular Lough Flies in the early 90's were generic Irish and Scottish patterns. Rarely see any of those anymore.
Well said mate!
Personally, I’m not at all interested in competing when fly fishing; for me, it goes against every reason I go fishing. But, I will say the nymphs used in Euronymphing have been a revelation for me: the less crap I attach to the hook the better. What could be more simple than a Wallts Worm? But it catches more fish (for me), than anything I’ve ever used.
I have no problems with euro nymphing. I started out traditional fly fishing (and was mediocre at best) before getting big into euro nymphing. I did euro for a good bit of time, but I now mostly do traditional fly fishing now. Having done both and having gotten really damn good at euro nymphing (I'm talkin 50+ fish days consistently), I have found that I just enjoy the whole process of traditional fly fishing more. Honestly, what I have learned from euro nymphing (in particular about depth and depth management with nymphs) has actually significantly improved my success with nymphing on traditional fly fishing setups. I still enjoy euro nymphing on occassion. That being said, I find it odd that Kelly would mention bass fishing in particular yet hold his opinion about fly fishing competitions with regards to requiring the use of multiple fly fishing tactics in fly fishing comps. It's akin to saying bass competitions should require anglers to use every type of technique in bass fishing (of which there are countless methods). Some bass anglers win competitions using literally one technique the entire time, and we are talking about multi-day tournaments. Kelly claims his qualm is with calling trout fishing comps "fly fishing comps;" however, I get the impression there is more to it than that. What he said early in the video about the nymph having "no soul" is likely more in alignment with how he really feels about euro nymphing. To an extent, I can understand the opposition to euro nymphing because of how far away it is from the roots of traditional fly fishing. However, the fact of the matter is that the quiver of fly fishing techniques/methods has grown, and that's just something that will have to be accepted, much like how it is with bass fishing.
Well said Kelly!
Would be interesting to get Kelly’s view on 200 guide boats going down the Madison in the summer. Is that fly fishing or just a cluster f**** ?
Far and away the best post here.
We needed one of those 25mins videos on this…. LOL
But it's the best damn burger in the world. Maybe you should start the Slide Inn fly fishing competition. In my world I really don't like fishing competition of any kind. I my world it's about the fishing not necessarily the catching, although the catching is nice. I can get all of the fish I want at the local fish monger, but I can't get the the sunrises or sunsets and the experience of being out in nature, in the city. Keep the good stuff coming buddy but next time tell us how you really feel.🙃
Love it 👍
Nailed it!
When started into flyfishing as a teen, it wasn't at all about being in any competition to catch more fish. I found it hard. I caught less. I didn't like the crowds jocking for position to catching stringers of stockies. Fishing the hard places that had fewer opportunities with methods that fit the natural circumstances of that moment on a stream opened up a life time persut for me. It may sound foreign to some when I say I had the best day fishing. I didn't catch anything but I experienced .......
Same, great comment. I'm going through a very similar experience. Only I just passed one year fly fishing. At 49. I got tired of the numbers game. I'll take one beauty wild brown and a creek or river to myself over a year of catching my limit on stocked fish. Tying my own only makes those great days even better. I have been fishing forever. But I have trouble even talking about fishing with some folks these days. Numbers add up to nothing. I have a mega rich brother-in-law , and all the numbers he has in the bank never changed the fact that he's an a-hole. Lolol. Part timers only show up in April around here. Just ride it out. 🤘🏻
150 percent agreed. I'll take the adventure, the exploring and the overall experience any day over numbers of fish.
Well thos are somewhat valid points, but don't lose in mind that some of us get numbers on wild fish 😜. My point of view is. Number are what they are. Some days you catch over 100 fish's ( yes all wild) and that is fun because it allows you to work things out like how to work the fish, land them properly without harming them to much. And yes we will talk about thos great fun day for a long time 😅. And for me a day like that basically meant that the fish were out eating and I cracked the code. Some day well they don't eat and things are tough 4 or 5 fish's wouldn't be that bad. Was that a bad day ? I don't think so. Hoping for better for sure. But after all it's fishing. I spent the day out in my happy place anyway. Well comp fishing is for me the same. With a small variation. Yes of course number counts, but numbers aren't only related to how you fish on river. They us aswell were you fish and obviously it's fishing so a luck factor. What comp fishing is giving me is a feedback on my capacity to adapt to the fish. If I catch 2 fish's in 2 hours and every one else is catching 15 to 20... well I'm either the least lucky angler in the world but more likely, I didn't find the best way to fish that session.. it's giving you feedback on how you fish. Plus you meet people with the same passion and share knowledge and approach. It just great funn. And winning? Well it's great feeling but let's face it. You don't win thos comp because you are the best 😊, just because you are a good angler that day and got lucky with finding fish faster than others and had a good stretch of river that you exploited properly. Some day it will be on dry. Someday, it will be nymphing but whatever works for you 😅
@julienthiriet4638 I was pretty much talking about the powerbait brigade, wormers, or what I used to do with little x-raps and such. I got tired of it being easy, so I turned the page. I hope to at some point start having 20 fish days on flies. Dries, when I've gotten it right, have made magic a few times. But I'm definitely not there yet. 🤘🏻
I used to downhill ski race and people gave us sh*t too. “Ohh you and your weird spandex suits.” “Oo you make too many turns” “Oo all you can do is carve.” “Skiing is supposed to be fun and free!” Well guess what, I like to go fast, I like competitions, because I have a competitive nature, and nothing else quite gives you the same rush as competing. Nothing. I miss it, as much as I love skiing powder and backcountry now and drinking beers on the porch. You just learn to ignore it all. But I’ll tell you this. Almost all big mountain skiers, and professional skiers, that you see getting sponsorships, were former ski racers at some point, because their technique and foundation is SO strong, they can easily move to other disciplines and excel. The thousands of hours spent on snow, the years focusing on technique, getting coaching, examining video, perfecting your form, the way it forces you to learn to ski under ALL conditions, from October to May, is pretty hard for others to catch up to. Competing creates excellence where recreation does not, that’s the nature of it. You can for sure make fun of it, and know it’s not for you if you don’t have a competitive nature, but the versatility, foundation, technique and skill formed for competitors is still above most.
I am new to fly fishing. And generally confused on why/how euro nymphing is so much different than just swinging a wet fly?
I couldn’t agree more. I personally fish all aspects of fly as well. There are days one one discipline is better than the other. I do like to tight line, also like to use jig streamers as well on my “Euro” rod. As for the competition aspect, the fact there is even fly fishing competition is foolish to me. But that’s my opinion.
Love your channel…flushing this opinion on euro nymphing though. 😂
Love Kelly, it is nice when people actually have a true opinion rather than trying to kiss ass
What ever floats your boat . Me personally would rather dry fly or streamer fish.
In Missouri, what is tied on the end of your line defines what kind of fishing it is. A single hook Rooster Tail is considered a fly here, even if it’s cast with a spinning rod. A fly tied to a Tenkara rod is considered fly fishing too. Both are legal methods in fly fishing only segments of trout waters. I realize it’s not the same everywhere. Sure maybe competition needs more specific definitions, but none of us should really care one way or the other, it’s just fishing with a variety of tools and methods. Same with so many other topics on YT, if we get caught up on it too much, it will take the fun out of it.
Where I Live dry fly is like 10 percent of the time. Should I just throw for hours just to look good? Is streamer fishing "Real" fishing?? Whatever catches fish is what you do.
Kudos Kelly...
I’ve been following your site for a while now and learned a lot of fly tying basics even though I’ve been tying for many years now probably close to 40. I never really thought my flies looked that good mostly because I never had all of the right material to tie the fly right. I’ve learned now through you, Savage fly , and Mad River not to feel bad about substituting material. I found myself on a local river talking to a young guy setting up to fish a local NewHampshire trout stream. He was fairly new to fly fishing, so I was pointing out to him what I thought was a cadis hatch, and mentioned that he should try a few of my flies which I gave him my favorite which is an orange hornberg. I also gave him some deer hair caddies flies and pheasant quill nymphs. Yay I finally know what I’m tying. So I’m 70 years old , fly fishing since I was a kid, self taught in fly fishing as well as tying, though I picked up quite a few pointers along the way, I did not realize why I did not like or even try the euro nymphs( did not even know that’s what they were called until this video. Can’t get into it, I like the classic flies I like tying them, I like fishing them. Watching your videos and going step by step my flies certainly look better and when I handed the kid a few flies and I looked in my box without a magnifier I thought they looked great. So I guess that I may be an old timer now however I learned a lot of my skills off some old timers from the seventies. The first and only knot that I was taught was the Turle knot. ( I’m not a speller). I liked that knot because I thought the fly sat better on the water with the line coming up through the center of the eye. No one ties that knot any more. I’m reassured watching your videos that we fish for the most part the same way, especially when you talk the four disciplines since those are the flies I use. Except when I bass fish I just use little poppers. That kids eyes really lit up when I gave them the flies, I’ll do that more often adding the lecture that he should start tying his own. I love your videos, I use to say when your to lazy to go fishing you can always watch others. But kidding aside man my flies are looking great thanks.
Always enjoy Kelly's point of view on anything really. World fly fishing champ that may only be good at one type of fly fishing where you dont even cast fly line? Cant disagree there!.
Fair!
I agree 100%
Lmao perfect timing spent last weekend euro nymphing for the first time (IDk if its real euro, I had a euro rod but i mostly fished drop shot with unweighted nymphs on tags) it was super effective for me, and I hate bobbers
Couldn't agree with you more.
Nailed it.
In skeet competition they shoot four guages for overall champion. Why not for fishing?
Clearly you don’t know much about competitive fly fishing at the world level. They don’t just nymph. There are lake sessions on the bank or from drifting boats. You can actually see the guy who won it last year fishing one of his sessions and he was fishing dries like a total wizard. To make out that it’s just nymphing, utterly misrepresents the reality.
He doesn't know much about many things. But it doesn't stop him from talking about it like he does.
Competitive fly fishing 🤣🤣
@@coreytressler24 ?
You want to see what's not flyfishing considered flyfishing, come to Michigan during salmon season.
Hard to argue with Kelly here…and I predominantly tightline nymph. It’s something I’m aware of for my own fishing…be well-rounded, try other things. It’s gonna come down to not packing the gear to tightline…force myself to do the other things more often.
Very good
It’s semantics. Kelly would most likely be ok if they called it a tungsten bead fishing competition or just a fishing competition. To call it a fly fishing competition I’d have to assume he’d want the rules to say no weight can be added to the hook outside of wire used to create body segmentation. I’d also assume that he’d be fine with adding weight in the form of split shot to the leader to get the hook subsurface.