Trump-proof plan for NATO? Alliance looks to take over US-led efforts to arm Ukraine • FRANCE 24
Originally, it was supposed to be a NATO foreign ministers' meeting to plan a birthday party. But at 75, the same alliance that just a few years ago wondered whether it had outlived its purpose, now has to instead figure out how to quickly take on more responsibility. Up until now, the United States led efforts to arm Ukraine. But the eventuality of a return of Donald Trump has members - including the current administration in Washington - preferring that NATO HQ safeguard that remit.
#NATO #Ukraine #Trump
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Europe is waking up . !
We are too obedient in order to do that. It will take a long time to realise the mistakes we are doing now.
@@platinum2905 Unfortunately I think you're probably right. I served with a military organization which subscribed to, "Okay we know what the problem is, enough talking, let's get it done". We should have been saying that back in 2014 but we are where we are and we need to be getting it done where we find ourselves.
its about time
HAHAHAHA/// let me laugh
Of course it's not man... Macron and Stoltenberg, LET ME LAUGH....
You have to prepare for the worst the best you can.
Great - thats $100bn worth of sales to european arms manufacturers and $100bn less sales to american arms manufacturers. People tend to forget that when they hear the US is giving money to Ukraine for arms, that money is going to the american manufacturers (even though its probably old stock).
Would it not be a cheaper option for the EU to just remove spanky45 from the equation?
Europe will buy from USA, or south corea ( Poland e.g.)
Exactly why the economy in the USA is looking better over the last couple of years, same as ww2
@@babahanuman83 I would not be so sure across the board: Cesar canons, Leopard tanks, missiles, shells a lot of it has come from European countries ...?
100 billion worth of euros going to JOBS and feeding families. Dont be foolish
Europe is waking up the right way. Combined help is needed. Finally Europe and NATO stands up. Yeah!!
EURASIA is a monstar,,,as long as Europe toes the US line it is asleep...fast asleep
Actually sounds like a pragmatic move. Europe might also consider re-arming (in addition to France) with nuclear weapons as a nuclear deterrent. Hopefully France and Germany will rely on Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, The Baltics and Poland as significant partners for basing troops and assets.
12 NATO bases are going to be in Finland and they're building the biggest NATO base in Romania. Latvia is getting a German base.
Just skip NATO and go straight for a european federation with a european army. This is just the typical half measure solution that does not even solve the problem. NATOs has always had the flaw of being to reliant on america. Yet the scandinavians with eastern europe refuses to accept that weakness. France and germany does not need them since the french nuclear deterrence is more then enough to stop the russians from invading them. Conventional forces are extremely useless for a nation with nukes since no one wants to start a war with a nuclear armed state. Ukraine would be fine if they had nukes, europe would be fine if we had a federation with nuclear weapons. But those stupid nations refuses to unify and wants us to be fragmented meaning that russia will be able to conquer one european nation at a time. Eastern europe with scandinavian nations have become buffer zones for western europe while if we where a federation it would become part of this federations territory. That would change it from defending an ally to the nations territorial integrity. Nations does not give up its own territory but they can abandon an ally. This is the actual choice we have, as a swede I understand that we will most likely lose territory or get occupied if we do not federalize. Since we neither have the population nor industry to defeat russia alone. While combined we do though I think we are too stupid to understand reality. We would rather get occupied by russia then accept reality.
In Europe both the UK and France are nuclear armed.
Really? Biggest NATO base in Romania? I didnt know that, thats so cool@@Joey-ct8bm
Whatever they decide to do, they need to hurry.
Hungary should be sidelined until they confirm the side they are on.
Money, money, money!
They should go the whole 9 yards, plan to be a real NATO international nations. And don't let any nation members hijack its policies.
A NATO that Germany would be the new leader? We all know what happened the last time Germany was militarily strong 😢
@@francotheafrican7550consider something like a triumvirate
As Orban,grrrrr....
False 😂 you tried
@@francotheafrican7550this isn’t any of the world wars anymore keep that to yourself
About time Europe pony up money to protect European’s interests! Holly crap with all that wasted money, we could have solved a lot of the world’s problems.
Europe needs to switch manufacturing to war time production, not luxury cars
Fabrice YES, YES, YES many of us have been saying this for 2 years!!
Please greatly AMPLIFY the commitment, iron out the wrinkles, Trump-proof the plan, and make it happen yesterday.
Air Defense, Air Defense, Air Defense… This is what Ukraine must have. How can Ukrainians rearm themselves if their factories are destroyed?
Some very good points. There needs to be political alignment in light of the reality of war.
As usual good experts with great understanding and ability to express their views
Europe collectively taking charge of their overall security is a good thing.
That Frabrice guy, you'd think he's willing to fight on the front lines. LMAO!
I hope we’ve learned by the Czechs ammo deal getting the cash
The issue is not about how much ammo you give the Ukraine's, how they can use it, it makes no sense to put restrictions on long-range missiles, Ukrainian s should be able to hit Russian military sites inside of Russia especially the tank factories and missile factories Russia has a choice stopped bombing civilian targets are Europeans would let loose the restrictions on the weapons that they give to the ukrainians
For those European Members of NATO who contribute less than 2% of their countries' GDP, maybe they can give the difference to Ukraine instead?
I hope you realize how done we are with paying for Europe’s protection.
We need more idealism and less expediency. Grey zones lead to more Russian expansionism
Great conversation, cheers
It's amazing how some Americans have such short memories if my memory serves me well I believe Ukraine had nuclear weapons some years ago and the USA managed to get them to dispose of them or hands them over and if this is right with the agreement USA will protect them now if this is true this is not right
Fabrico I hope the world is listening to your sensible outcry. Bless all of you and may God keep you safe and strong!
I think the most effective way to "Trump proof Nato" is for each alliance member to meet thier spending commitment.
I am glad that EU is taking more power and insuring funding needed is required.
I see division in all nations governments - brexit, maga, afd, unity govt/hamas etc … pointing fingers at races, genders, religions etc - how can we all live together and thrive? It’s stressful constantly fighting for your life, liberty 🗽 freedom and basic human rights. Most governments have educated staff right? Let’s make some deals and stop destroying lives and infrastructure!
Yes. The IS has squandered it’s opportunity to provide meaningful help.
About time
Im surprised you dont include the Czech President in these joint discussions as he is the only military person who is a head of state in Europe
Peace, free trade, and strong cooperation is a way better than old colonial ideals about owning territory. However when dealing with nations like Russia you have to use force since it is the only language that Putin can understand. Regardless of how the war ends it is a tragedy primarily for Ukraine and Russia, but also for Europe as a whole.
Agree 😁
I REALLY resonate with Fabrice Pothier - strategic thinking instead of patch-work aid. We need to learn the art of escalation back, in order to bring peace and stability back. Putin until now has been taking us for a ride.
Merci ...very good discussion.
Russia is not afraid , NATO is irrelevant and weak 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Bluffing is not your strong suit comrade... less emojis next time
Great words fabrice 🇬🇧👍
It is in both Europe's and the U.S.'s best interests for there to be a more balanced NATO relationship. It has been almost 80 years since WWII ended and Europe has been rebuild for a long time. The U.S. should give Europe more control over NATO and in return Europe should be more responsible for funding and the manpower of this organization.
This also means opportunities for European and other NATO countries - we will boost our economies by producing weapons and protect ourselves at the same time. I would rather we would make money by producing boots for unicorns but it is what it is.
If you reallocate the $340billion faux climate change budget, you could actually help defend Ukraine and yourself. You're welcome.
Awesome interview 👏👏👏
As an American I'm sorry this is necessary!!!
Cost less fight directly and close match in 1 mounth
USA to step down as the leader of the free world and Europe to step up, developed and innovate its arms manufacturing and boost its own economies to ensure it own security. This is a brilliant position that should have happened years ago. It would be in the interest of Europe to build a collective combine military force and collaborate for a collective stockpile of arms.
This will mean also EU politics that reminds more of an Republic than economical alliance.
None of the 'we build something...' or the 'we ramp up production for...' will be ready in time. We need other solutions if its to help Ukraine
well you can built thousands factories and it doesnt mean it will boost the production as long as you outsource the material for it..even worse when you need youre enemy or competitor to provide the material..like million shell eu promised in one year it didnt even 30% of it they can produce
@@wirasanjaya4517 So did the US and didnt deliver. What does that help in this context again? This constant bashing each other is not a solution which we are in need of.
Very well said, “Ukraine is almost a NATO member”. It demonstrates however, the shock and horror of NATO's inaptness to provide an effective discharge of the "Article #5" obligations, should a legit NATO member invoke it ... say ... tomorrow. Are we going to see more of the "Ukrainian style" bickering ..."too much too soon", " aggravating the Russians may result in escalation", "need to get funding from the next budgeting cycle", etc, etc. Is the "assistance" extended to Ukraine a realistic example of the true meaning of "Article #5"? Shock and Horror!!!! Everyone is looking at each other … who signed, who did not approve, we can send this bullet but not that one - too longer range, may upset the Russians. And then ... Pres Macron gets up ... “ok”, He says, “you want to lead but you aren't ... I don't, but I will”. Go for it Mr Pres Macron, Sir, It's about time.
Eventuality. Sure. Whatever you say.
This fund is NATO going in a good direction, IMO. However, I still don't think Europeans have a good grasp on how much most Americans across political factions are just plain fed up with giving out billions when other rich countries contribute so little. 100 billion over five years for the riches countries on earth is not much on defense. The United States spends 700+ billion A YEAR on defense. Europe needs to step up, and this is a good start.
A 47% plurality of Americans want to see the US keep its current commitment to NATO, while 20% feel support for the alliance should increase. However, 16% think the US should decrease its NATO commitment, and 12% would prefer the US withdraw from NATO entirely. These are published figures you can access online without me citing references. I don't have any stats on how much of a grasp EU citizens have on the minority of American Citizens (assuming the other 28% who want de-investment) are just "plain fed up" but that (as you say) is your opinion.
I don't think that we Columbians are fed up. Trumpery Trump was only catering to his bailer out of his bankruptcies and exercising populism (easy solutions for complicated problems which could never solve anything but make things go kerplunk.)
In Norway we will electrify our millitary, because our petrol stations are soon obsolete, based on electrical outage in Ukraine - i don’t believe this is a good strategy before it’s a proven metod.
American president and European leaders are a day late and a dollar short in their military support. STOP HOLDING BACK
It’s not Biden. It’s the Republican Chaos Caucus.
I’m relieved to hear this as an American, but I agree I wish it was stated that this is Definitely Not all that Ukraine needs. It should have been 100, 100 billion, or simply $1 trillion, to start…
Less on short terms offers and long term pledges... yeah good luck getting past the bean counters in Berlin.
Well Iohannis dosen t have ASML IN Romania so,Rutte will be the Nato chef
Good plan. It may help.
😊👌
The key is to get Macron to go from words to action , and to do it in full cooperation and shared credits with Germany and UK
Yeah send those Frenchies to Country 404!!! Fried Frenchie frog legs on the menu!!!
too late
I can help France government with my wisdom to right approach to achieve goals for the sake of Europe and European people that I do share values of life but different lifestyle!!! Glory to God for the sake of humanity!!!
If the US is paralized for a year every 3 years because of its elections and political infighting it should be time for the EU te create an additional counterpart to NATO something like EUTO. Although the US for decades didn't want to see a strong and united EU the times seem to have changed. If only the EU can set aside there differences and come together this War between Russia and Ukraine might be a good start.
War bonds. Best idea to raise public funds and involvement worldwide.
$100 billion over 5 years when ukraine was previously getting well over $100 billion a year which wasnt enough and has already been running with minimal funding forthe last 4 months? maybe its just me but that doesnt seem very encouraging...
100B will boost the economy of Europe.
Ukraine should be helped not only to defeat Putin but also in reactivating its nuclear armaments and produce its own inventory to depend less on outside supply.After all it has got required material resources and necessary expertise.
Very unfriendly responses
Isn’t this what Trump wanted from the beginning? Pay and fight for your own protection
yes but he wanted the power, now he is one of many, actually a dumb one, because he fell out with the other members & europe will NOT buy US weapons
You’re not getting it, because you’re internalizing Trumps oversimplified view of the world. Security is not transactional. It is not a purely national concern, or one that is achieved through zero-sum financing.
I feel pity to NATO and Ukraine when i heard the reporter says Ukraine is not allowed to use long-range missile.. while Russia can use anything even nuclear..a comedy in this situation is real..i wonder if war happened in south china sea.. Philippines will be crushed..as we all know china is also nuclear and could treat everyone..nuclear..as Russian did
6:39 let's get on the offensive
No aid to EU and NATO
That boots of NATO help built backround infastructure in Ukraine that they not loose teritory.
I’m an America and I want us to Trump proof him from ever getting to the White House again!!!
Good news Europe is putting its big boy pants on.
With Macron and Stoltenberg... I guess we're safe and out of trouble. 😂👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
No Nato in the Pacific
Forever war.
Go ahead EU you can do it!
Shame on our Republican politicians. These well fed, well dressed and frankly overpaid people have absolutely no geopolitical vision.
📍14:30
War mongers😢
Wars are won by fighting back.
NATO is OLD! Poland and the former and Orbits should form their OWN ALLIANCE with a cooperating agreement with the "EU" NATO.
France24 studio engineer drunk? 😂
Now that they are discussing future wars with Russia, at least it means they know this war is lost !
Never mind just Ukraine, the future and safety of Europe depends on strong, independent, self reliant EU. Nobody should count on the Yanks!
NATO must end this war with boots against Russia. Money would not solve problem.
OMG!! Europe taking responsibility for Europe! It's a miracle!!!
@@whattheflyingfuck...trust me, you don’t want us out of Europe. Many European militaries, including the UK, France, and Germany, are not equipped to respond to attacks on Europe’s sovereignty.
Putin has pushed the world back 50years, at a time when we should be more concerned with the bloody weather. Putin forgot the cold war was over, the west had forgotten but not putin.
The United States IS NATO. The member states have a much smaller air force and Navy. The German army has 180,000 soldiers. The American national guard alone has 430,000 men and women. LOL Good luck with that Europe.
Overestimate and underestimate it don’t matter now WE HAVE NO CHOICE ☝️🫡✊🫡🫶🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦we need to do the right thing and take a stance for the rule of law and for Europe humanity
Everyone was ordering there ways for Ukraine ,meanwhile there people was dying and now they will have to put boots on the ground if they want to keep the war far from there country...There is a politic situation in this world that kill people by talking instead of acting just to gain power...
Both Biden and Scholz are De-liberators living up to their true form.
Say ciao, ciao to that free healthcare Europa!
Does it mean that NATO will be changing name Since it was created for different purposes
Turtlenecks are back!
For me this is well said and an overdue commitment. This item should have been delivered in the earlier stages, even well before Russian invasion. NATO can do without the USA. USA leadership is slowly but surely fading as she is more and more afraid of Russian military might un matching to theirs.😂😂
I can tell that you've never been exposed to domestic U.S.A. culture. There's a difference between being afraid and obeying rules. We have a mass shooting (4 or more people killed, including the killer or killers) almost every day. We aren't afraid of living our daily lives at all. I follow strict rules, though, to minimize my chances of bad outcomes. It's not fear; it's prudence.
Why is Putin such a loser?
That’s the dumbest question I’ve heard this year
I so hope Trump goes to jail .....unfortunately, NATO needed ‘a Trump’ to open their eyes!
European militaries are at their lowest since before WW1. It shows in what they are able to supply to Ukraine. US is also facing the same. US military is smaller now then at any time in the last Hundred years. The corpus amonts of $ being spent on smart weapons is staggering. 13 billion aircraft carriers. These price and the length of time to build them are not sustainable for the long term.
Sorry I don't remember when the Ukraine became a member of NATO?
It borders NATO, protecting it protects NATO. Prevention is worth more than cure.
@@timotheatae Goes both ways I guess.
Several countries have agreement and responsibilities toward defending Ukraine - it does not need NATO to do it if individual nations would commit and maybe do it under the guise of the EU with the Uk in support.
@@goodintentions5189 No one else than Russia invades its neighbors and sends the army if their candidate ain't elected(we still need to help Belarus get free because they did not vote for what they currently have and it was the Kremlin forcing the population to accept Dictator Luca). When everyone is free we can build a 100m high and 50m thick wall around Muscovia and promise that no one will ever cross that wall again so then the Kremlin never have to feel fear and NATO will protect that wall. We can even make sign along the wall that its forbidden to feed the Muscovian slavs so that no one gets more than the other one within the safety wall. Like you do you in Muscovia, just understand that no one else want's to be part of you. You are like the ugly stinking kid in the corner that no one wants to play with so all you need to do is withdraw to your old Muscovia and I promise you that we will help you build a wall around that area. I will personally guard that wall so that no one ever leaves the area or enters it, like I will keep you safe so that you don't have to liberate other people from their freedom to create imaginary buffer zones. I promise that a wall guarded by the entire NATO army will be safer than angry buffer zones that are forced to be one.
Do you remember as RuSSia became help from UK and US Lend Lease?
Yes, Europe is waking up too late, now we need to catch up at least a good 6 to 7 years to develop and build our defense systems and military draft. Europe should not be afraid on doing it alone, America has answered the question already on how they feel about aiding Europe, so its up to Europe to spend and develop and defend. Europe can obviously do this, the political side needs to agree on the spending and preparation. We all have to do our part to make Europe stronger and to protect and help Ukraine so Ukraine becomes part of Europe. Prepare for the worst of the worst scenario to to be ready regardless if it ends up worse. For all the anti EU and NATO trolls, you have nothing of significance to contribute other then to bend the knee for so called peace talks with Russia while you know exactly that these peace talks have been attempted numerous times, you are as ignorant and gullible as Viktor Orban for playing Putin´s tunes.
I still do not understand why we equate Ukrainian defeat with European defeat. Can someone explain how the two are related? Ukraine is neither part of the EU nor is it part of NATO. The only recent analogy I can think of are the annexation of Crimea in 2014 and that of part of Georgia in 2008. Neither of these two events triggered or signalled a defeat of Europe. I think it will for sure be an embarrassment for NATO if Ukraine loses the war but it is hard to imagine that this would trigger a wider conflict with Russia. It is clear from a military perspective that Russia has neither the capability nor the desire to attack a NATO country, as it would be the defeat of Russia, which in a worst possible scenario could lead to a nuclear war.
If Trump will be president ? EU snswer ! Min . 12 % customs for all us US products also made in China ( Apple) .VISA application obligatory . If EU is producing a product . Only from EU .
As an American, I say F.U. Europe.