The Mass Extinction Debates: A Science Communication Odyssey
In which the dinosaurs go extinct and 66 million years later people get angry about it.
What killed the dinosaurs? Maybe you think you know.
Many others thought they knew. They saw hundreds of years of scientific progress, shifting paradigms, and explosive arguments behind them, and decided they were at the end. The K-Pg extinction was settled. Then it exploded again. And again. And it kept exploding way more than any layperson today really appreciates, revealing more about science and its communication than you ever imagined.
This is the story of the mass extinction debates.
Join my Discord server to discuss this video and more:
/ discord
Get music to use in your videos with Epidemic Sound (use this referral link to support me):
www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
Special thanks to Alex Grab for the awesome rock arrangement of Fossils from Saint-Saens' Carnival of the Animals:
• Saint-Saens in Rock - ...
Special thanks to Dr Christopher Scotese for granting me permission to use maps from the PALEOMAP Project:
/ @cscotese
0:00 - Intro
5:17 - Part I: The End
28:40 - Part II: The Record of the Rocks
47:46 - Part III: A Sudden Violent and Unusual Event
1:18:29 - Part IV: Exterminate All Dinosaurs With This One Weird Trick!
1:46:42 - Part V: Confessions of a KZheadr
2:10:05 - Credits
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LINKS MENTIONED
Recent review about the dinosaurs' extinction:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/f...
Jefferson's mammoth cheese:
• The Strange Tale of Je...
Darren Naish on another palaeontological paradigm dust-up:
web.archive.org/web/201207051...
Michael J. Benton on the history of the dinosaurs' extinction:
bpb-eu-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.b...
The Alvarez paper on asteroids:
www.jstor.org/stable/1683699
The Vogt paper on volcanoes:
www.nature.com/articles/240338a0
My Pythagoras video:
• How Pythagoras Broke M...
Neil Halloran's video on nuclear winter:
• The Controversial Scie...
Kyle Hill's video on KZhead science spam:
• KZhead’s Science Scam...
Elisabeth S. Clemens on the debates:
www.jstor.org/stable/285026
Interview with William Glen:
• UNSCIENTIFIC LEARNING:...
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A full list of sources and credits can be found here:
oliverlugg.com/the-mass-extin...
Raw data from my survey is available here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
If you're looking for even more, I've written a blog post about the production, omissions and reception of this video:
oliverlugg.com/further-confes...
This video was reuploaded after an audio editing error that resulted in a crucial line being missed. Apologies to everyone who saw the previous version! EDIT: There have been scammers impersonating me in the comments. If someone with my avatar asks you to speak to them on Telegram or similar, DO NOT contact them. I am NOT running giveaways. EDIT: I've become quite disappointed by the number of comments that have warped this video's message to suit their own fringe scientific theories. So I feel the need to state this clearly: yes, the science and culture around it are wrapped in the same human subjectivities as those I've covered here, but human-caused climate change is a real and serious issue. If you aren't willing to reassess your own beliefs on this - the entire message of Part V - I don't want you in my comments section. CORRECTIONS: General - I cut it because it would have required yet another detour into many long-running arguments, but it should be noted that other mass extinctions have been attributed to volcanism. The consensus for the largest extinction of all time (the Permian-Triassic extinction) is flood basalt volcanism in Siberia. Note though this consensus is surprisingly recent and it took the upheaval of the K-Pg debates to make most researchers aware that a catastrophic event had even occurred at the boundary. One other mass extinction (the Triassic-Jurassic extinction) has wide support for volcanism. The others are, at least from the sources I've used, more mysterious. 14:12 - 'Marine reptiles' is the wrong term here, as turtles and co survived. I was referring to mosasaurs, plesiosaurs, etc. I've also been informed that there's some evidence that ammonites survived a short while into the Paleogene. 34:19 - Smith is more commonly called the father of *English* geology, with James Hutton (a Scot) usually referred to as the father of geology. It's likely I saw this, plus the fact Smith is also called the father of stratigraphy (a sub-field of geology) and misremembered. 45:21 - Some of these theories were intended as jokes - including, notably, AIDS - but the fact that the extinction of the dinosaurs was seen as a laughing matter by scientists still proves the point. 47:35 - It's a bit disingenuous of me to put the AIDS and cataracts cards in the 1970s as they were proposed in the 1980s. But I think it was necessary given how much I was about to fit in the 1980s... 50:40 - That phone is from 1984. 1:39:22 - I've been informed that the Dunning-Kruger effect is a bit of a misnomer and, perhaps not surprisingly, the true model of intelligence/confidence doesn't line up with popular perception. I Dunning-Kruger'd Dunning-Kruger. NON-CORRECTIONS: General - I don't know why so many people seem to think crocodilians are dinosaurs. Well-supported phylogenetic analysis tells us that crocodilians are not descendants of the last common ancestor of Triceratops and a sparrow (or any equivalent bracketing), and so aren't dinosaurs. They're archosaurs, a larger group which includes dinosaurs. So while closely related, crocodilians don't meet the scientific definition of dinosaurs, so there's no need to correct the question to, 'What killed the non-avian, non-crocodilian dinosaurs?' as some people are suggesting.
Oh man I'll ensure this is on in my earphones while i clean right now, but jesus the ending got me on the premier.
Definition of perfectionism: cares for a time error of 4 years,which takes up less than 0.01% of the total run time!
For once, it truly is 1984.
My heart goes out to all the British 🤢 people who go to Swindon and never come back. Glad to see you recovered without complications 😊.
Also what's the song in the credits?
Now that I think about it, the asteroid at the end of the Cretaceous was the highest number of birds killed with one stone in the history of the world.
"Let me just kill all of the birds with one stone here" -God, 66,000,001 years ago
@@EzaleaGraves Damn, I guess he didn't succeed in his goals though. How sad. Made a jolly good show of it though!
Love me some funny Dad jokes. 🎺📯
I stoned two birds with one rock.
Highly underrated comment.
My main takeaway from this video is that, not 40 years ago, an actual scientist proposed in an actual scientific paper that the dinosaurs were killed by AIDS
The 80s were crazy
That would be a fun timeline to see through. Dinos died bcause of Aids and mammals survived because they are immune to aids and aids becomes at best a weak flu equivalent to all mammals
AIDS was kind of a dark chapter in that specific part of recent history. To be honest, i'm not entirely surprised. _Anything to weaponize AIDS i guess... :I_
Don't be too proud of the scientific community of today's time either. 40 years from now, they might be laughing at a LOT of stuff we assume as fact in our scientific papers.
@@1994mrmysteryman haha thats assuming that in 40 years we'd care about em, I'm sure at that point most people will be in VRs ignoring the reality tbh
Can we all agree that the person who answered "Big Rock cause Big Boom" is truly the most enlightened? Whether you're a volcanist or and impactist, it is factually certain that a big rock caused a big boom.
im with calvin on the fact that terms like “cretaceous tertiary extinction” is too boring and we should refer to the extinction event as something catchier and cooler like “the disastrous dino doomsday”
@@mrrp405 I believe it was the great sage John Calvin who recommended that we rename the Big Bang the Horrendous Space Kablooie
A big boom created from a Cybermen controlled ship.
@@mrrp405the terrifying turd comet.
If all the birds on earth finally die, it would still look like a tiney poof at the end. Can someone remind me why it took so long for dinosaurs to become birds…. And was it one dinosaur that became birds or was it coveragant?
As a fairly recent STEM PhD it genuinely Wild to me how dogmatic scientists can be on their own pet theories. Maybe I just haven't found my appropriate hill to die in yet.
Bit late to response, but I think it's important to note that the clash of ideas is actually vital to the process of understanding too, and whatever the failings of such dogmaticism, authentic passion must drive that process. As much as the strength is a weakness, so the weakness is a strength.
In a way, the more you try to defend yourself, the more easily it is for everyone including yourself to figure out how wrong you are. Even if its a completely wrong idea, its still a noble cause to extensively push to disproving its reality intentionally or not. Knowing what isn’t true can often be just as useful as knowing what is.
Oh, did you get the asteroid ending? The asteroid ending was my favourite
As your friend, I find this concerning.
Still thinking about this comment. How did you manage to condense the entire video into a quote from one of my favourite games, and how did I not think to do that?
@@OliverLuggAnd now one of the composers of said game is commenting on your video.
@@OliverLuggwhat is game name?
@@mlodikkthe stanley parable if you want to play it you should get the sequel, the stanley parable: ultra deluxe edition, it has all the same content from the old game but a bunch of new content too
"for those asking what if the volcanos caused the asteroid, you are officially beyond science" gave me a real good chuckle
🤣😂👌
Big volcano went boom on some far away planet. Sent planet sized thing at us somehow. BAM!
Watch some proof show that somehow, someway, they did. How? Not a freaking clue.
volcanic activity increased planetary albedo which caused solar recursion which caused the sun to affect a forgotten smaller, nearby moon so much so that it was ripped apart creating and sending an asteroid hurtling towards earth
@@shgdslol definitely
As a normal person who grew up in the 70's 80's with a big interest in dinosaurs and science, watching this video, the first time I heard asteroids killed off all the dinosaurs it just seemed the only solution, just sounded right, I didnt realise the full impact of the actual history of this theory and that I grew up during it. Amazing well thought out and presented video!!
Hi there. I'm a recent college grad/geology major. One of my professors was a grad student under Walter Alvarez at berkely at the time the impact theory was being introduced and debated. My professor spent a few days of lectures explaining to us what happened between the physists/chemists and the paleontologists from his own first hand perspective. You did a good job presenting that story here and I figure I would let you know!
In college, my geology professor, presenting a model of the Earth's layers, stated flatly "This is not what I learned in college. I wonder what your kids will be taught about it." That broke me, forever. I feel Mr. Lugg's pain/
Yea imagine if the professor that was born before the discovery or understanding of ...let's say DNA ,electricity or computer science telling their students " it's not what I learned in college " ... I mean it's not a lie if they didn't learn it college . At least that wouldn't be as bad as "god did it "😅 cuz now that there is a non explanatory non answer if I ever heard one .😊f
@@ijaripanju3408 what are you even trying to say here?
@chase5298 that god did it, And stopping there. Is a bad answer most likely
@@rednoodle5775 yeah no I got the attempted message at the end I was more referring to the first half of his reply lol
@@chase5298 I mean I thought it was clear enough. I'm not sure how to explain it without just repeating what they and the original commenter said uuuuh....generations of professor's have probably said the same thing and it would be extra wild if you were a professor before and after the discovery and teaching of DNA and electricity
It amazes me every day that scientists don't get into conference-wide brawls more often, given how stubborn and righteous they can be at times.
they sometimes get into brawls on twitter
In Victorian times they got into duels.
That's because most of them never even thought of visiting a gym and therefore are all so physically unfit, them fighting each other would be like two birds fighting for a piece of bread :D funny to watch but with no real consequences :D
@@acmenipponairI'd like you show me up then. Why don't you go get a 1st degree black belt and show me how unfit I am. I have to hold back even when using padding so I don't hurt people while sparing. Of course, like any self respecting black belt I have very good control over my movements and thus have only seriously injured someone once (to be fair he grabbed onto my leg while I walked away so I feel like me accidentally dragging his head into a pole doesn't really count). I should add he was fine after a 15ish minute rest but, we still decided to let him rest for the rest of practice.
There have to be chemists preparing explosives to plant in the bags of the chemists that scoop them
An amazing meta-analysis of the current trend of "high quality," science channels popping up. There are some like Lemino that cite all their sources, but so many just expect their viewers to take what they say as fact, no matter how controversial. I hadn't even really realized the trend occurring until this video, thank you for reminding us that science is dictated by people with biases and that sometimes even theories that seem set in stone may not be as concrete as the media tell us. You have really conveyed this all in a way that doesn't encourage skepticism in science itself, but rather the way media presents it.
Somehow, some way, some KZheadrs have seemingly teamed up with random forum blowhards in making the term "show your sources" one of the indicators of that same person being unscientific. E.g., I say "An alien didn't make me breakfast today." "Show your sources. What evidence do you have? ... sounds like you're saying everything except giving your sources."
@@chrisd3674I hate those types of people. Not every conversation is scientific one!
This video became so much more important than an extinction event there at the end. I really appreciate the self-awareness, and I can tell you really care about the things you put out into the world.
I think what really killed the dinosaurs was the friends we met along the way.
SO time travelers killed the Dinosaurs and there will be an eventual paradox, i think.
Homer went back in time and killed a fish...
i thought AIDS was a good theory
no the friends we made along the way killed megafauna like mammoths
man, i need to get new friends if theyre the ones killing all the dinos
Hi Oliver! Speaking as a vertebrate palaeontologist, this is a well-made, thoroughly researched, and entertaining exploration of both the K-Pg extinction debate, and science communication more broadly. You dove deep where time permitted, but also pointed out when and where glossing over was needed. I should add that my own expertise is not in dinosaurs, and that my understanding of the topic has, unquestionably, been shaped by popular media and popular science. However I cannot, at a cursory viewing, see any noteworthy errors. In my own experience, I completed my undergraduate and higher degree learning in a state of perpetual terror, awaiting the moment that the penny would drop for my supervisors that I really knew nothing at all, and that I'd been clinging on by the skin of my teeth. I recall vividly my final thesis viva, wherein the people I respected for years pointed out carefully and unwavering every error they could find. I wrote them all down, every one, promising to correct them all, even when I knew it would have no effect on my grade. To my surprise, I received high marks and praise, errors and all. I admitted to my supervisor before graduating that, still, I felt like I knew nothing. They looked at me and said, "You know what? I feel the same way whenever I'm about to give a lecture." Self-doubt is not just a natural part of being an scientist. In a way, self-doubt *is* science. Congratulations on this monumental piece of work.
This is oddly inspiring
I have a lot of self doubt whenever I'm knees deep in a pool of oil, bolts, and General Motors parts praying to the angel of combustion that my shitbox will start. Truly a universal emotion.
Use holy incenses and oil to appease the machine spirit (me looking at the check engine light on (it was the O2 censor)) @@jacobrzeszewski6527
Dinosaurs aren't real
Thank you so much for sharing that! I've been in a very physical profession for a decade now. Been promoted, gotten awards, won competitions, and through it all I'm scared of people finding out I'm weak and been faking it. That they'll find out about mistakes I made, that there are days when I sleep in, eat pizza, and don't train. I've run 18 miles, and there are days when I feel like I can't run 1. It's nice to hear self doubt is common.
This is such a high quality video. I was wondering how I wasn’t already subscribed and saw you haven’t hit 100k yet and that baffles me. The length and quality makes me think you should have way more
I didn't know I wanted a 2 hour video about the nuances of mass extinction, but this is fantastic!
There's an old maxim that if you can say it in a sentence, don't write a novel. You took over 2 hours of my time to tell me mostly things I already knew - asteroid likely, let the scientists do their job, science journalism often fails us, and it really doesn't matter to daily existence. And you know what? It was a great 2 hours, man. GOOD JOB. Enjoyed the whole thing. Feel free to write a novel anytime.
You had me at the start 😂
he had me at the start ngl
As long as it's entertaining, idgaf how long it is
SAME IT WAS SUCH A GOOD RIDE
what a rollercoaster
As a scientist myself, you’ve given me a lot to reflect on in terms of how I engage the public with the science I’m doing, how I’m engaging with my colleagues and how I sometimes am not as critical as I should be when engaging in new scientific information.
Alright Willem
@@asagoldsmith3328 lol
??
@@talus9663 I'm something of a comedian myself
@@asagoldsmith3328 damnit 😅
This video is pure gold. One of the best videos I have watched on this site ... and I have been watching quite a lot since 2006. Seriously, this type of content is what I'm looking for each and every day, even though I am only able to find it every few months or so. So many great thoughts and ideas. Presentation and pacing was on point. Great stuff. Thanks man :) I appreciate you and your work
okay, guys hear me out. Birds are dinosaurs, right? in the early 1930s australians fought emus (the great emu war) and the australians used machine guns. Sooo humans killed dinosaurs using machine guns.
Amazing. I know this video is going to die to the algorithm for the crime of being long, but as for me I hope that it goes viral. I had no idea that one video could go so deep in a mere two hours of runtime. Your tackling of this topic is, in my subjective opinion, the best.
It will probably get recommended because it's so long
@@WhaleManManI got it recommended and I'm glad it did
What are you talking about? 3 hours videos documentaries are the new favourite thing for KZhead
@@prehistoricorchid3455 same. I think KZhead recognized a demographic who like long videos considering I get plenty recommended to me.
I got it recommended. Huge fan, love this guy!
It's interesting to me how many content creators are concerned they might be going insane after an extensive research project.
Makes you almost wonder if Lovecraft had a point
What doing research really feels like
That's kinda what's wonderful about it, the internet has essentially democratized information. It's why it's called the "information age" after all. Everyone has access to everything, anyone has the capability of conducting full unbiased researched that's motivated by a genuine and sincere search for the truth rather than financial gain or reputation. It's fascinating that they always come up with existential conclusions about the nature of how humans exchange information. Scientists and the public no longer exist in their own separated echo chambers, they are forced to "share the same room", so to speak. Sometimes the data doesn't make sense, the universe doesn't care about us and our instinctive need to label everything into neat boxes. Sometimes reality is more of a blurry spectrum than a defined binary. Sometimes, it's probably better to hold out on a theory until better data shows up. It surprises me that scientists never stop to consider the philosophical impact of what they do, since their ideas, and the way they communicate them, literally shape reality as we know it. A part of me really wants philosophy to get more involved in science, but the other part of me knows that if that were the case we might never arrive at useful conclusions lol. But hey, all I know is that I know nothing... ;)
The cynic in me says that’s because most of us are used to glossing over insubstantial research with flashy productions, so when we’re confronted with actual research requirements, we go crazy.
Especially when trying to do research on more obscure things
Fantastic video. 10/10. Obviously the information is well-researched and the effort put into making it is bewildering, but I also wanna mention that it made me fucking die laughing more than a couple times. The stick figure portrayals were hilarious.
This is one of my favorite video essays ive seen in a while. Also it made me question all the video essays ive seen. Well done
I didn't think to question how you portrayed the mass extinction debate even after you brought up the ideas of wacky, scare, and breakthrough. I used to believe that I had the capability to make informed decisions about science communication and not just blindly trust it, but now I realise I was wrong. Thanks for opening my eyes to that, even if it was by just a little. Not to belittle this video or anything, it is truly amazing. I just mean I still have much more room to grow.
Yes, just remember the very recent veritasium Vs electroboom debate. Except this one was way more civil
@@512TheWolf512 The veritasium Vs Electroboom debate feels quite... and frustratingly so ... common. Physicists & Physical Chemists make a low-level ab-initio (from first principles) or at least, with minimal assumptions and abstractions, explanations on how things work on a per-particle level. Engineers and other chemists then naturally make abstractions, take averages, make use of observed laws that predict things well enough at their scale and forget about the small print and end up arguing with physical chemists/physicists over the "correct answer." It's frustrating! I'm somewhere in-between ish. I am a physical chemist, I also use my quantum chemistry to try and solve real life problems (biochemistry). This means I gotta make abstractions, averaging and simplifications that "at this scale, it's OK." It'd be super easy, if one does not actually look at "how it should be", to assume these abstractions to be reality that controls things. Like, the mere existence of orbitals in themselves is a fairy tale we tell ourselves for easier maths. There are levels of theochem that eschew the notion of orbitals (open shell wacky hells) but the rest of us play with them.
As someone with a history of science background who became a scientist, this video deeply resonates with me. It never stops to amaze me how much scientific practice has taught me about living with uncertainty. So often, my scientific research has forced me to hold in mind inconclusive, contradictory and nonsensical data, for periods of months, or even years, while having to resist the temptation to force it into a mold. It's a difficult lesson I have to re-learn over and over again, and I think you've done a wonderful job of communicating it here.
Brilliant comment - I know a good scientist when I hear stuff like that. Complexity is a bitch, and that’s too bad because the entire Universe has layers of it with wonderful emergent phenomena. Only mathematics (including digital computation) is left out. They only qualify as “complicated”. They “exist” in an abstract, non-dimensional domain. They are only representational of reality. They are without values or ethics etc. The clue is that if you can ascertain the absolute state of a system and therefore comprehensively predict or reverse engineer any other state, then it is not complex. It is also necessarily devoid of semantic content. All syntax. Math etc. are just powerful tools - as is science properly conceived. People can put a simple tool like a hammer to multifarious use. Science is your great tool and you know the limitations - more power to you. Gosh, I do go on. Which brings up the issue of deep time...
I loved this video!! I went to graduate school and attained a Masters Degree in Anthropology. When I was there I learned of "'reflexive ethnography." What is that you most likely ask. I'm glad you most likely asked. We'll start with this, an ethnography is a critical inquiry into the cultural aspects of a group. You can write an ethnography on Korean Shamans or on the West Coast Punk Rock Scene of the 1980's in America. Starting in the 1960's (actually earlier, but the 1960's is when it began in earnest) anthropologists realized that ethnographies written by different people on the exact same group could come out very differently. When they looked into why, they realized that ethnographers saw a culture through their own filters. So some began to experiment with acknowledging this position they found themselves in, sometimes this lead to fascinating essays in which the writer' incorporated their own subject position. Other times essays resulted that were too much about the writer and not enough about the culture. Imagine my surprise to have seen these exact same moves in your video! Rather than a solipsistic piece of self aggrandizement you made a fun little video that draws attention to how the method of inquiry could present its own problems. And you did it by enacting it! Well you pulled it off brilliantly! What began as a little video on "what killed the dinosaurs" turned into an examination of how science is produced. So kudos on a fantastic and fun and enjoyable piece of work! If I were teaching a methodologies anthropology course I would use it as an example. Because you managed to highlight the issue of self awareness by doing it, which made it immediate and tangible.
I saw those Richard Owen photos a while back and totally made a minor villain for my D&D campaign that not only looked exactly like him, but was named similarly to him, and was an evil necromancer professor.
2:09:02 As a biologist, I've heard that one. One of my professors said that flowering plants may have played a part in the extinctions of the dinosaurs. I guess some biologists really wanted to take center stage in the discussion.
this is my favourite theory (at least it was before watching this video), not because of it's probability of correctness which is very low, but because it highlight how little we know about the overall context of the earth during these paleontological events we like talking about so much. because: 1) they're not quite as flashy and attention-grabing. 2) the evidence pointing to said context hasn't been uncovered yet. 3) all evidence of them is lost and we are unable to deduce it. also the flower theory has great comedic value which is by itself legendary.
@@malbacato91 Now that you say it, the explanation did help me realise how easy it could be for us to miss the "real" reason or not know if non-avian dinosaurs were on their way out by the time the asteroid and/or flood basalt event happened. Also, agree it would be funny.
"New study says hayfever killed the dinosaurs"
"...would be spinning in his grave! At a slow unwavering speed" has me chortling
chortling at a slow unwavering speed right!?
this is 100% the best video ive ever seen! theme is a W for starters but also the editing and the script. the amount of research you did shows, i always love to see people who are passionate about science, it makes me want to learn more too.
One of my favorite things about having watched this video is that KZhead is now offering me more 2 hour long videos. I kid, while that is a great benefit, i also really appreciate the time, effort, and dedication producing this required.
I swear the more unknown creators like you make the BEST video essays and long-form content out there. Whole video is really fun to watch and feels like only 20 minutes of watching.
Watch tirrrb.
If you wanna watch another video on mass extinctions, GutsickGibbon just posted one a bit over a week ago and I highly recommend it. It was honestly one of the best videos I've seen in a while. It was super interesting, extremely informative, and pretty funny at times
@@nerdwisdomyo9563like that channel is anywhere near comparable to OL
I’d always been pretty solidly in the Astroid impact, with the more recent caveat of: The volcanoes certainly didn’t improve the situation in the dinosaurs favor
If the asteroid was pulverized into tiny shards by another asteroid before the leftovers became meteorites, would it have been better or worse for the dinosaurs?
@@Barakon it would really depend on how small the pieces were when the asteroid broke
@@VitaeLibra then how the fuck would the kpg extinction lead to bird people? What would be a believable explanation for the setting of my webseries?
@@VitaeLibra I want to write an alternate where semi avian dinosaurs took over instead of mammals.
@@BarakonBut the semi avian dinosaurs did take over. They dominated until the Younger Dryas peroid at which point they had to hide within the hollow Earth. >:)
this is an excellent video, and an excellent layering of meta analyses and narratives. you do an excellent job leading people on the journey youve set up, and you do an astoundingly good job tying everything together. the focus at the end of "how we know what we know" instead of just "what do we know" is extremely enlightening. good video
Just browsing this your channel's subscriptions I can definitely perceive the influences in narration, production and humor. This essay is such a great compilation of those influences and added so so much more to it. I absolutely loved every single second of it.
As a trained geologist who spent the early part of my career in museums and palaeontology (before I had to get a "real, paying job") and having flirted with SciComm over the years, I loved this video, the re-telling of the history and the debate was engaging and covered the most salient points. The handbrake turn into SciComm Theory at the ~70% mark was an unexpected surprise. My god I wish I had the time and skills to produce video essays of this calibre!
I have time and skills but I don't produce because I don't have the self-confidence
they all started small. give yourself a try
What do you currently do?
@@fnansjy456 Meteorology, but it's a career I fell into after the sickening realisation that Museums and Palaeontology were out of my reach.
Congrats on releasing this mammoth video! Looks like a massive undertaking, one that will be very much up my alley. Gonna comment for the analytics and watch this one at a later date!
Heh, mammoth
The mammoth video was a few months ago. This is the dinosaur video
*Mastodon video.
@@OliverLuggIs the cheese going to be what we serve?
Having finally gotten around to finishing the video, a lot of this resonates. I am involved (in a minor way) with mental health awareness and like the end of the video mentioned, when science communication is not going so hot, especially in specific contexts like mental health... the consequences are dire. I hope people take the message of Lugg's essay to heart.
This is possible one of the best videos I´ve ever watched on KZhead, no lie. It was fun, educational and every time I thought the video was about to end... More amazing material! I love it!!
your data analysis of the survey was absolutely phenomenal! please keep this up
I'm 63, and remember volcanism being the explanation for the extinction of the dinosaurs being taught in the 1970s. I also remember the Alvarez explanation hitting the general public back in the early 80's. If memory serves, this was through the writing of Jerry Pournelle in Byte magazine of all things. Not having any skin in the game, the Alvarez explanation always resonated with me, and with the discovery of the Chicxulub impact site, I've just accepted the resulting climactic change being THE cause. Honestly, three of the best hours (yes, I rewind to read the text) I've spent on KZhead. Kudos to you as well for admitting you are an example of what to watch out for when it comes to Science communication. But, I do believe that was your point.
I feel like there's a lot of lessons to be drawn from this on LOTS of scientific debates.
Uniformitarianism stem from emotional rejection of folklore believes in floods, ie: ancient flood to explain disappearance of animal in the quote of george curvier (30:54), ie: catastrophism. Similar to the rejection of big-bang in astronomy, ie: creation of steady-state model of universe rather than a big-bang, due to emotional rejection of folklore believes in creation. The lesson here is to avoid hypothesis/theories coming from negative emotions/motives.
They can come from positive emotions too. See the scientific response to The Bell Curve. Ignoring reality to try and be nice.
@@winged777 The bell curve is not science, and its called the BS that is not because people want to be nice
@@xponen no, there is no lesson from only two examples you dont even describe accurately.
@@xponen _"emotional rejection of folklore believes in floods, ie: ancient flood to explain disappearance of animal"_ Incorrect. The rejection has always stemmed from a complete lack of evidence for such deluges. Likewise creation folklore: no evidence. The provisional dismissal of a proposition for which there is currently no evidence until such time as there is evidence is a rational response, not an emotional one.
Honestly, watching this felt like watching a favorite show. This is frikin amazing! Great job.
That "well actually" bell startled me! It sounds the EXACT same as my microwave bell! It's a Sharp Carousel II R-8010 made in 1984. They go for around $250 if you need a pricepoint. It includes a convection oven feature! The bulb burns out every 5 years, longer if you use a glove installing the bulb.
cool microwave
This was a wonderful story… loved all the tangents, the humor, and the unexpectedly touching stuff at the end. I really hope more people see this!
As a screenwriting student, that point about narratives hit-most formative piece of advice I’ve gotten is “characters are not people”
What does that mean ?
@@anilin6353 TLDR: You shouldn't assume reality / science works like a narrative and can be 'retconned'.
@@kyokyodisaster4842 how do you draw that from, "characters are not people"
Absolute Masterpiece, I enjoyed this from the first till last minute. I am a layman in every field mentioned in this video so it was really interessting to see the journey not only the science, but yourself as well, has taken. Really appreciate the end part, it puts a lot in perspecitve.
As a perspective science communicator myself (insert spiderman meme), this was a wonderful video, and you've reinvigorated my interest in the field of science communication, paleontology, astronomy, and comedy with it! I think the best way to move science communication forward is to make it easier for individuals to do research and encourage individual research and fact checking. With this, the interest of the individual can ensure they remain properly informed to the level they desire, and allow us to make mostly true statements (those things with "um, Actually" as their constant echo) in good conscious. Now all we need is to make the internet as a whole less pedantic. oh... shoot.
That "doesn't matter" answer cracked me up way more than it should have. Your delivery was so on point!
Lyle spinning in his grave at a "slow and unwavering speed" made me spit-take coffee all over my keyboard. I love this channel
This is one of my favorite videos on KZhead. I've watched it in it's entirety 3 times now.
Woke up halfway through this and got really hooked now I’ve gotta go watch the beginning… subbed hard af m8
Just now saw that you posted this RIGHT as I finished reading "The Ends of the World" by Peter Brannen. Enjoyed feeling all smug that so few people knew about the volcanism theory when I literally only learned about it for the first time yesterday. Great vid!
I’m Indian and also live on the Deccan plateau this is a great back on forth of ideas and ideologies and I’m great that Indians tv reporters haven’t grabbed this debate turn it into a political tool like what they did in history ( which is a cluster f*ck ) Amazing video 👍
The whole video was phenomenal, taken with a grain of salt, that is. But chapter V was something else. Great job!
Not gonna lie- I was very surprised with how well put together this video was. I just started listening randomly not realizing how long it was but I got hooked. I am definitely going to watch more of your videos. 🙂
Amazing video. I don’t usually comment unless a video has really captured me, but from a fellow human on the internet seeking knowledge I really enjoyed every segment in this video which really resonated with me. I can’t imagine the process you had to go through to put this together so seamlessly, but it was incredibly worth it. Thank you. I genuinely think if more people understood what you presented in your video the world would be a much better place. I hope it finds its way to the wider audience. I’m glad there are talented people like you who have the intelligence, integrity, curiosity and self-awareness and can put all that together, put themselves out there and explain complicated but important questions in a accessible and entertaining way. Just for us. We should honestly be grateful, and I think in this case the science world too. Brilliant job mate. Can’t wait for your next one. Enjoy a well deserved rest haha
This is the first video of yours that I've seen, don't think I've been so captivated by something on KZhead in so long! I'd put this up there with "Line Goes Up" by Dan Olson as one of my favourite long form videos. Hope this gets the recognition it deserves!
Dude I’m 14min in and this is already amazing the pacing is artwork and I’m so high and so excited to learn thank you
As someone who works on open science and citizen science as PUS this video is a blessing. Thank you for your work.
doug doug uploaded a 2 hour video oliver lung uploaded a 2 hour video whos next???
I am
It wasn't the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, it was high demon elgrim XD
The Black Pants Legion, hopefully.
Why is there this much of an overlap. But I'm here for LuggDoug fans.
How do the two relate?
This has "Will one day randomly get picked up by the algorithm and get 4 million views in 5 days" energy
you know you did a very good job on a docu when people listen to it more than once and not to fall asleep. thanks for your work. awesome result. watching the third time! 😅
Thank you for the credits article. It helped me find a song I was looking for. (muffled catawampus) And the video's great too.
I really never seen beyond the fact that scientists only ''''recently'''' agreed on the meteor/astroid/comet/"Texas sized space pebble". I too, assumed it was always that way! great job! You got my subscription.
Can't believe I sat through this entire video and actually paid attention to everything. Thanks for spending so much time on producing this, it definitely will affect the way that I approach "absorbing" scientific knowledge, something that I had been thinking about for a while now.
Just reading how our understanding of anatomy has changed in the last 20 years seriously freaks me out. We've been digging blades around in peoples' brains and doing open heart surgery before people who specialize in human anatomy understood that our taste buds taste things all over our tongues.
This is the best video i have ever seen on youtube. Thank you so much for how much work this must have taken you. Liked and subscribed!
You said something in this work that made me laugh out loud and I instantly subscribed. I forget what, but it was good. Thanks for making this.
Not only well-produced and well-researched, but enlightening into the varied factors involved in scientific communication and its effects on public opinion. Well done 👏
The whole 130 minutes totally worth it. It's quite cathartic witnessing someone go all out on a futile quest to resolve all possible uncertainties in a given subject and come back having kept their sanity
48:45 this is the greatest image that summarizes the whole video, I almost watched this twice just searching that I didn't have a mandela effect on me, great job!
This is an incredible video. It had me captivated and paying full attention for every moment I was watching it. I can give nothing but compliments about the quality (and humour). Especially the humour had me go back sometimes, after I missed a bit because I was laughing too much. These were two well spent hours.
This was an amazing video! I’m no paleontologist or natural historian by any means, but I am a huge fan of history, And in particular the history of historiography. This video went from being a neat examination of extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs, to a very insightful history of geology, paleontology, and competing theories made by scientists, to a full blown existential crisis where I question my own knowledge and the trustworthiness to even the most fundamental sources around me. I hope you make more amazing deep dives like this
As someone studying journalism and having had many semesters of communication theory, this was such a fun video to watch. Especially when it comes to the complexities of the debates and how information is often filtered through biases, historical context and that many times, communicators are also part of the audience. Especially when it comes to how there's always a subjectivity to information, since its relevance is tied to its interpretation. Both from the source (as it is a person or institution who shares this information and they have their own interests, biases and expectations) and the receptor (how much do they know, do they care about it, what are their reactions to this information and do they continue to share it with others. If so, how?) Hell, even having all of this into account, journalists are still people with their own biases and interests and as mediators (both setting the tone for what is talked about in the general public AND trying to cater to what the audience demands to listen), there is a tight rope we have to walk through if we want to appeal to the public and be true to the source. And i felt like you truly went into depth with this at the end of the video. Even though you focused mostly on science communication, a lot of your thoughts also apply to the complexity of reporting in general. Journalism is difficult, often thankless (both by audiences and media conglomerates) and full of people who misuse their platforms and spread misinformation or straight up fake news (why? Because it sells, of course! Well, in reality it is not as simple as that, but this comment is so long already, so I won't delve that deep into it). Being ethical on a polarized media environment is not easy if you want to have food on your plate. And good luck if you want to go into investigative journalism, because you'll end up on a list. In conclusion and as advice to others, read as many sources (with all of their biases) as you can about a topic and decide what to make of it. What do you think about it? What makes sense to you? That's the best way you can understand what reality is and what matters to you. Anyway, sorry if I made any mistakes, english is not my first language lmao
This video kept me deeply interested for a good leg of my road trip. Amazing work
Channels like yours convince me, that KZhead isn't dead. This is brilliant.
This was absolutely lovely! I adore the gradual deconstruction of assumptions, starting with nomenclatural nuances that most people will have either already known about or inferred the existence of, and finishing at the fundamentally absurd desire for self-consistency in a human worldview. I very rarely get to see this topic discussed in any kind of media, which is not at all surprising, since, as demonstrated, it's almost inherently antithetical to the format's constraints, but a shame nonetheless. Call me a wonk, but I'll take a video on nuance over a video on dinosaurs any day of the week. Maybe except Saturdays.
Call me over demanding but I have a preference for nuanced videos on dinosaurs.😅 Stuff like YDAW's examination on the changing family tree and the like are a good start but this is way better.
When I see an extremely well-researched and dialectical video essay that's two hours long, I subscribe.
Thanks for such an amazing video. Definitely one of the single best things on all of youtube!
I would like to admit, I killed the dinosaurs, I got a genie in a lamp, first wish killed the dinosaurs, second wish killed the djin, I still havent gotten that third wish, which imo is fair... idk what would be dead with that one
So you should really get a refund for your wish Because avian dinosaurs birds still exist
I know this is a joke but, like the implications of Genie Lamps being able to change something on that scale creates a paradox, if you hadn’t wished for it, we would likely have not evolved and then there would nobody to wish for it.
But why the dinosaurs?
@@veronicalagor4771 because they were assholes
your actual introspective reflection on youtube as a whole is what earned you a sub. THAT was actual science! ALSO: william smith
Bro. That was an amazing vid. First vid I ever saw of you. I love how you chalange the viewer. Have an upvote!
I love that the music you use at 1:15 is the same as the intro song for the Terrible Lizards podcast and I've been binging that for weeks now
How is it possible that in the midst of all the paleontology and biology channels I follow, this was the first video I get from this channel?! Ticks all the boxes of biology, history, humour I love!
This was absolutely an excellent watch. Science communication is an absolute gauntlet and there's no clear-cut trail between scientific research and resulting theories and the public perception thereof. (Curious if this will cross Hank Green's radar, he talks frequently about the mess that is science communication, especially with the public.) Part V was probably my favorite portion, especially talking about the entertainment value being a driving force behind a video such as yours. It brings me back to middle school (y'know, approximately ages 11-14 in the US) learning about doing adequate research and how to decide what purpose a piece of media serves: is it trying to educate? Persuade? Entertain? This is something that a lot of people seem to... forget, what with the breadth of reach social media and instantaneous communication seems to possess. Media can serve or intend to serve multiple purposes, and no purpose should be left out when considering how much value to put in intellectualizing a piece of media. I really appreciate the self awareness, as well as the conclusion that... science is flimsy and ever-changing. Personally, that's nothing I've ever feared. I choose to embrace the fleeting information, I like keeping an open mind willing to challenge what I know. It's almost more fun that way--the world is open to surprises when you take changes in science a day at a time. Excellent job, thank you for this wonderful video.
reminds me of a presentation project I did back in Gr.9.... Teacher wanted us to present to class a medical NPO their purpose, and try convince class, within 3-min, to vote on "most helpful org" in combating modern diseases and helping impoverished corners of humanity. I swear I'm not lazy (on THAT project), but I just didn't pick an NPO fast enough to make a convincing case. What did I do? _make this a marketing project instead_ Spent 3 min lauding the mediocrity and genericness of some no-name org's laser focus on air shipping pills. And it got 2nd most votes for how shamelessly brave I was. But also-also landed me bottom 10 in grading, since I missed everything technical on what org was really doing. Conclusion: people like stories; especially dramatic stories. Very very scary...
Holy shit I just noticed this ended up getting almost 4 million views. Congrats, you deserve every bit of it!
My parents often say "Well when I was growing up scientists were saying we're headed for another ice age!" as a way to dismiss any argument about global warming.
Exeptionally good. I felt like watching an actual documentary, but if it was like documentary 2.0. The pacing of jokes and narrative is amazing(ha!). It honestly feels like a symphonic orcestra of a video. And oddly when you go meta it fits right into. I could possibly make an actirle trying to explain why this video works so good but im here just to say thanks and promote the video. Currently sharing it to all my friends, bless thy the algorythms.
This is hands down one of the best informational videos I’ve ever seen! Im in my undergrad right now and hoping to one day be a researcher and your analysis of science communication is spectacular. The things you touch on here put words to trends I’ve been picking up on for a long time but didn’t know how to feel about. I love your attitude and I’m so glad I’ve found your channel! :D
Bobby Broccoli does similar long explainers, but focused on scientists who faked science, why and how, and their eventual discovery. Really well presented, though less jokes, highly recommend them
@@Noelwiz yoooo thank you so much! Looking through his channel and this is right up my alley! Super appreciated :)
This has been monumental, my applause. Just finished watching all your essays (and the "joke" vids) having started from a very persistent recommendation of the algorithm to watch the Foundation video. Huge appreciation to it all. It's funny to realize the most memorable influence that lead to my belief of complexity of things and necessity to doubt was a.. 4 minutes song on politics of a fictional world by a rapper that strives on the complexity of chosen rhyming patterns, ever-changing flow, and vocabulary, yet the concept album it serves as part of is essentially a love story of a writer below his peak, set in troubling times. Yet, having listened to that, having thinked about ever since, re-interpreting, especially in very different contexts, I have to say, "Intertwined", or, as sung in it, "Everything is intertwined" had an astonishing impact and is marvelous from lyricism-, narrative-, and sound- -focused views. And then the video I start my journey on with your channel, and the video I end with (so far) reinforce the same conclusion I didn't seek support for. P.S. The guy had lived in London for a while, being a native to a very distant to it part of the world. If you seek to take a look at, the album is Gorgorod (a play on mountain and city having the same start in their native language) from 2015, track #5. P.P.S. the initial reason to write this comment is "retcon" cracked me up. Nice one, whoever wrote that.
I guess I'm due for another relisten of both that and Carmina Burana, thanks for both.
This video had more ending scenes than the Return of the King. Great work! You 've gained a new subscriber ^_^
Super fun and interesting watch!! You really are good at making long format videos, but I really can't fathom the amount of work this must have taken you May you be blessed with a favorable algorithm on this one 🙏
I started watching the original, noticed it was unlisted, stopped after 4 minutes, read the comment, decided to go looking for the new version, and then youtube-at that moment-notified me about the new one. coincidences can't help but *feel* remarkable
This is probably one of the best videos on this platform
When a 30 minute video can't make me sit down and watch the video completely, congrats on making me watch a 2 hour video on two sessions divided only by my lunch! I really do hope that you'd get more subscribers because it really is impressive.
What a video. Perfectly paced and timed, with each segment genuinely fascinating in it's own right. Cheers.
I really enjoyed this video - thanks! I LOVE that you encourage subscribers to do some research on their own. The internet has tons of information and there's always the library! I pretty much live in the library researching topics from every perspective and drawing my own amateur wannabe paleontologist/geologist lol. Keep up the great work 👍 👏 ❤
Hey the godspeed pilot was really good. weep The standup sounds fitting. You deserve a good comedy career :D Keeping a making off is a great idea too.
45:12 I cannot stress enough, this is some of the funniest writing I’ve ever heard on KZhead