Low DPI vs. High DPI, which reduces the input lag of your mouse?
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what we all have been waiting for, amazing job!
Amazing channel!!! Subscribed! Loved the testing methodology and it helped me understanding why I do prefer higher dpi (1600) over the "standard" 400...
Does the software stop counting after the first sensor count received of after a certain number of counts received?
Wow, great information, man! Thanks for your time! Great job :D
Awesome! Hopefully you will do that accuracy analysis :)
thank you for all the work you do, mate
nice videos mate keep up love ur work
I love high DPI but I hate how most games the i game sensitivity settings aren't low enough
@@kmndra5831 even worse is some games in full screen borderless modes, high DPI can make the invisible cursor go outside the border and then when you click you click out of the game
I just experience this in New World
With raw accel you can use high dpi with a lower sens multiplier
@@a1e738 I know, that's what I do, but not every game allows you to go low enough in sensitivity if you use 12k DPI and above
@@wile123456 He's probably talking about the program "raw accel" iirc there used to be a raw accel dll injection so it's compatible with virtually everything.
Very interesting. I have for a long time used high dpi, with in game devider (0.01 - 0.99) as I belived I felt more connected to the game (1800). Then for windows desktop stuff I just used a differnt profile on the mouse.
WOW!! Thank you, didnt expect that!
truly appreciate your hardwork, i really learned something new and really valuable today
really wish you would test other sensors besides this one! would be interesting to see if this curve drawn is universal or some affect of the sensor in the death adder.
It's kind of sad that he is just testing one mouse. Would be great to see input lag results for the XM1 too.
are all sensors the same?
@@TheKillerZmile no
its the death adder. Theres other testing by other people with many more test subjects that show this. The G Pro X superlight was tested alongside the 10khz models that just came out, there was no latency difference between them. The death adder is unique in this oddity.
@@TheKillerZmile no
I've been waiting for this
Yeah this one took a while. :)
Me too, amazing content.
@@BattleNonSense I can imagine, thanks for the hard work. Ever since you announced it I was very curious about the results. Maybe you'd be able to make the movement slower by using gears? Or will that be too complicated or maybe cause too much inaccuracy?
@@BattleNonSense Thanks for the results. I would be very very very interested in the same test just with different brands. Take 2 common logitech mice, a razer, a Corsair and compare them please. And if possible with an even lower initial speed, because when tracking a target while full auto I am sure I dont move my mouse as fast as seen in your first test... Thanks! :)
@@BattleNonSense quake champions at next patch get nvidia reflex ,plz test input lag 🙂
Nice! Amazing work!
awesome video as always. keep it up and thank you for the content. :)
Curious how this would work with something like RawAccel.
If anyone is having a hard time with windows sensitivity you can go into the registry to edit in decimals. I am running 3200DPI most of the so I run it at 2.5 though it doesn't display in either of the mouse menus. Remember to backup your registry before you make any changes. The reg Key is "Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse" > "MouseSensitivity"
I want to use 6400dpi, but the problem I encounter in game is that the mouse will be too fast, even in lowest game sensivity. My question is, will a low windows mouse sensitivity solve the problem with high DPI I described above?
Ty for this video, pretty informative
Good job man. Full watch and thumbs up my brother.
Great work as always! Any plans on testing at slower speeds? maybe use a parts from 3d printer kits since they can give high 2d accuracy.
the best way to look at DPI vs Sensitivity is to think of analog signals. The high DPI is a hardware version of a high signal, while the high sensitivity is a software amplification. With a high dpi (i use 900) and a lower sensitivity, you can get the fast movements you want without sacrificing the super fine details when you are sniping long distances. You cannot just say they have the same equivalent DPI because the sensitivity x DPI is the same number. How the system amplifies each signal will cause issues.
Yeah so basically just go for highest DPI and lower in-game sens accordingly, and you get both more accuracy and less lag.
with 900 dpi you basically make your mouse in need to add an interpolation process while registering your mouse mouvement wich can create jitter and inaccuracy. Most mouse has a native dpi of 800 so you need to make a dpi number that is a multiple of 800 since 900 its not a multiple of 800 I suggest you first to check the native dpi of your mouse and use a multiple of it for native 800 dpi use 800 - 1600 - 2400 - 3200 - 4000 etc (tbh more than 2400 is useless in my opinion) Also you need to take in count your monitor this is due to the fact that DPI does not adjust with resolution, meaning lower DPI settings on higher resolution monitors can cause slight stuttering and imprecise aiming in games. Just realise its a 2 years old comment lol. You probably doesnt care anymore at all aha
I know is not much, but I always like and watch your videos to the end. Your analysis and test methodology needs more recognition
bro u amazin keep doing those videos :)
Great video as always. I wish all games handled mouse sensitivity like Overwatch does where you can manually put it in down to the decimals.
Agreed. in some games though you can do it even if the ingame settings won’t allow it. You just have to tinker with game files. In r6s, you have to open some ini file. It’s not as intuitive but that’s just how it is. It differs for every game.
Just run something that feels comfortable, you don't need every game to be exactly the same
Thanks for the great video! Main point for using 800 dpi as main is the fact that it's the highest DPI that can be played in many different games for a very high cm/360 sensitivity. A lot of the new games don't have sensitivity sliders / numbers that can go low enough when you're using 1600, unfortunately. Adjusting windows sens is a no go - it always created issues in the past.
Yo exactly I was ganna go to 1600 but most games ingame sensitivity doesn't go fucking down enough doing fucking 3 360s in one mouse swipe
@@moretoastedthanatoasterstr9773 i play on 12000 DPI and its just amazing for me with high fps to match. To each his own i suggest everyone try high dpi low sens to at least see how they like it.
@@UltraMegaFail ya no I I complete agree was playing on 400 dpi like 2 months after I got a computer and iv had it since 2014 and fuck me wish I bump the dpi a long time ago
wrong but semi right. as an FPS player who is high rank in all FPS games (radiant valorant, global csgo, FPL). we use 400 DPI and 800 DPI because it's more consistent when it comes to pixel tracking. if there is less variable for mistake on lower DPI but if you go too low it will become skippy and unplayable so people assumed 800 DPI was the best but 400DPI has been proven to be just as good.
@@Soleft i can only speak on behalf of everyone i know and everyone in the pro scene of FPS games. it's not like there is a data sheet, we just can feel the difference
Awesome video, thank you!
Love this guy's videos he's helped me so much getting into p.cs
I always use 1200 dpi. It just feels right for me. Glad to know that is in a good range concerning input lag.
same. but i do use 800 for games
I think it's more to do with you have to move your mouse further to register a change on lower dpi. This being said 1600 still feels more responsive than 400 and because it's smoother, it's easier to track targets even during a flick while at 400 I can't track the image at all.
My standard mouse DPI has been set to 2000 for many years now, with low sensitivity in games. Always been quite good yes. Awesome video btw.
Wow. This channel deserves more subs.
Polling rate = temporal resolution. DPI = spatial resolution. The higher latency from slower movement is because time = distance/velocity. The "distance between dots per 1 inch" is greater at lower DPI before the sensor registers movement, and hence faster mouse movement nullifies this.
This
so, keep using 400 dpi ?
@@kontrasergeant yes only noobs watch these videos and think they are real
Hey Chris great video I would’ve love to see the test at 500 Hz considering that polling rate is much more consistent among majority of 1000 hz mice
500hz will be much more delayed than 1000
@@ULouOW that is actually not true
@Alex.UA6 Yea, not necessarily more delayed, but just generally bad. nobody would ever deliberately decide to use 500HZ over 1000HZ. I can see people deciding to use 1000HZ over 2K of 4K because they got used to 1K, but generally most inputs from a 500HZ mouse will be more delayed than a 1000HZ one
it depend on the game tbh for example r6 is coded for 128hz mouse polling rate so if you use 1000hz there you nerf yourself. apex legends for example support max 500hz (mby that changed i talk about like a year ago i didnt play r6 and apex since) so better use 500 on apex and most game tbh counter strike does support very well high mouse polling rate so its fine to use 1000hz + there same for valorant and im not sure but i think call of duty also support it very well.
I really love ur contrnt its always full of information that i never knew
Thank you Chris!
Keep in mind, USB devices don't send updates on their own, they are "polled" at a rate by the computer. The higher DPI's diminishing results may be due to that polling rate. Some mice let you increase that rate.
USB 1.1 and 2.0 are 1kHz max, 1ms repear rate. And it's the device that decides this, not the PC.
@@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it All his graphs are showing is a delta normalized DPI, DPI / (hand distance / cursor distance moved) * delta. This is simply how mouse sensors work, the lower your DPI the longer between your mouse jumping pixels, this should be obvious and common sense considering you know that DPI means "Dots Per Inch." Waffle never claimed it's determined by the PC so we already know you're intellectually disingenuous lol
@@ForBreadAndFish I have actually read tge USB protocol specifications and have programmed USB devises. The 1kHz polling rate was the max available in hatdware for USB 1.1 and 2.0. Only USB 3.0 added the ability to clock the interrupt transfers ss multiples of 125us instead of 1ms.
The polling is done by the USB controller, not the "PC". While there are devices which alow changing the polling rate, these are pre-defined by the device. The PC may choose which one, but they are pre-determined by the device, not the PC. I'm familiar with the actual USB specification, I've done ISB development. I know how this shit operates.
@@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it Was he using USB 1 or 2? That would be another flaw in the video.
1 thing, speed of tracking and hz ramp are connected. If you move your moouse real slow the sensor won't track at 1000hz.
Why not
@@firellio070 download MarkC windows10 fixer and use the movement recorder. See for yourself. I'm no claiming to know why, but it is like that.
Man i love this KZhead Channel
Very informative video, thank you for the info
I would like to note that you can't have windows cursor speed presets like you can with DPI presets. So some games that use the cursor in game will have an uncomfortable speed if you use 2 different DPI for desktop and gaming. Just get a bigger mousepad ;)
I was also hoping to see testing for DPI changes vs in-game sensitivity as well. I think I set and forgot my mouse at around 1200 dpi and adjust sensitive per game to what feels right. I have a small space for the mouse, and use wrist movents usually, with a little bit of arm room.
The same thing applies. All ingame sensitivity setting affects is how much your camera rotates per pixel traveled. Meaning it depends on your DPI. If your DPI is 1000, your camera will make 1000 movements per inch the mouse travels. If your DPI is 10000, your camera will make 10000 movements per inch the mouse travels. Lower the sensitivity accordingly to make up for this
You must be not that good at fps games then💀
@@bigbob5103 Pretty old comment but the only FPS games I remember playing the most was the Halo series and that was on console. I dont have much interest in FPS most games in general, not the multiplayer ones anyway.
@@Vaxtin oh okay that makes sense then😭😭😭 I would get so triggered if there was a slight difference between my sens in each competitive shooter I play
Long-story short, use higher DPI and lower the in-game sensitivity to make up for it, then after that get a smooth mousepad, trust me it makes all the difference, maybe the mousepad even more.
The results may be different between different mouses. Good thing he tested exactly the mouse I use, great video
Damn this channel is a godsent, keep it up ! I would love to see more game netcode analysis and maybe update older ones. I wonder if tarkov made any improvement for example. I would also love to see csgo tested at 128ticks vs 64ticks
Hi, maybe you would be interested in checking on the High Precision Timer (HPT). When I have disabled it in the cmd I have noticed a massive reduction of my input lag. I was wondering why my mouse inputs seemed so sluggish on my Laptop comparing to PC - this was the issue and thus HPT settings are a real deal.
As other people stated you should compensate for the sensitivity adjustment by changing ingame sensitivity to match the old one.
Should have used eDPI to maintain the same overall "sensitivity" and relationship between DPI and in game sensitivity values. If he doubled the DPI, halving the in game value would maintain the same relationship. Otherwise all we're seeing is the time relation between sensor signals as the sensor tracks it's position
@@geologik7500 exactly
I said the same in my comment, he replied as well, I don't think he agrees.
@@Anderson_Roger I think you didn't formulate the question very well, the simplest way to put is as Dane did
@@geologik7500 time relation between sensor signals is delay though. It's not like he measures smoothness, he measures first detectable change.
Your analysis are great!
btw... if you get a razer 8k viper... it still sends the signal at 8k frequency no matter which actual polling rate you choose for operations.
To avoid jitter, there is nil response when going from "distance moved 0 dots -> 1 dot", the larger in size the dot, the larger the delay to go from value 0 to value 1.
you have to spam 1 3 1 3 1 3 to get out the lan jitters in freeze time
This is just a great channel. I have never seen any other tech / game channel that put so many good ideas and effort into so many great technical and yet daily occurring topics. Keep it up 👍
thank you for the vid , love it
Thankyou man,thankyou!
In my setup, frame rate would still matter far more than mouse dpi (mine is 400). My 6700k is falling behind, it seemingly can't keep up with newer games like BFV and is probably bottlenecking the system.
I've been using 800 toggle for minor sniping corrections and 6400 with windows pointer speed at 3 for about 10 years now. In-game where possible i select untainted system speed or 1.00 which usually represent system speed. So I basically figured out with my senses since 2001 what's the best way to setup a mouse hardware wise, interesting
Awesome video and good editing as usual :) Can you tell me which editing software you use?
I have your mousepad's picture as a wallpaper ! Alena Aenami, wonderful art. Thanks for the great vid as usual :)
I just read your farewell announcement Chris. I'm sad that you're no longer able to make new content due to circumstances out of your control but I'm also glad to have be here with you since the beginning of your KZhead journey since the Battlefield 4 days. Your videos have always been top notch quality and I appreciated every second of it. You are very talented and it's very rare to find someone such as yourself who consistently creates top quality KZhead content. I hope everything works out for you and your family and I wish you all the best. Good luck to you and your family and take care of yourself Chris. ♥
omg where did you read that?
Has he quit?
what happened?
@@riba2233 yeah he had to leave KZhead for family reasons. He made a community post on this channel explaining this.
@@Superdazzu2 he had to leave KZhead for family reasons
Been thinking about this, When I increase my DPI to 1000 from 800 (adjusting in game sense to account for eDPI) I feel like it is a bit to responsive with over shooting etc, so maybe I should be looking at a slight reduction in game sens rather than the standard eDPI calculation. :thinking:
no just go higher, the problem is that your aiming where your supposed to but the input lag causes like an ice skates effect caused by the delay to stop, i can feel it at 1600, it goes away at 3200
You the real MVP. Thank you!
Thank you for your work.
Can you give a reason as to why this is? Taking the dpi value literally as "dots per inch", do you have to displace the first row of dots for the mouse and system to discover the movement? This would explain why faster moving speeds show less dependence on the dpi value, because the faster you get the minor is the different between how long it takes you to cover the first inches of dots NOMATTER how far they are apart? For slower moving speeds, it takes you longer to cover the first row of dots, and for different dpi values, they are spread apart further. Hence the higher influence of the dpi value on the system latency for slow speeds? It would be great to have an explanation next to your testing :) Anyway, as always, great video!
Calling it input lag is a rather poor choice of words, it's not like a signal takes more time to reach its destination but rather there are fewer updates in a given time. He should have made it more clear that it's behaving closer to how polling rate affects input lag which is in the end the amount of information in a given time period.
BE CAREFUL NOT TO INCREASE DPI TOO HIGH ON YOUR MOUSE, some mice will start smoothing at certain DPI points and will have higher latency. All of Razer's new wireless mice have very good sensors with little to no smoothing (hard to tell) up to 20,000 DPI.
I know this is older but I would like to see where you got this info.
@@DoubsGaming I'd never be able to track it down, I actually looked for it a couple days ago. Their is/was a reputable source for that though.
@@DoubsGamingIt's been a month, bit might still be useful. Techpowerup reviews include in-depth testing of sensors, with one part being smoothing.
What does smoothing means and why is it bad?
@@rubenbaczo8497 will be less raw, will have like a "filter" between your hardware(mouse) and the cursor in the monitor, will not be 1:1 (mouse movement and cursor in monitor), and this usually add latency (less real time between the response with the mouse/system)
Been using 1600 this entire time, good to know I haven't been handicapping myself by using my preferred sensitivity
Good vid but am wondering about the Mouse Pad itself, does the patterns it has have an effect on the registration of the DPI? Does the Texture or Material itself have an effect?
Switched my dpi from 400 to 800 and halved my sensitivity in game, changed it from 10 to 7 for desktop mouse settings, a little bit different but wont be difficult to get used to. Definitely notice a slight improvement in input, thanks for the info!
you HAVE to set your windows mouse sens to 6/11 or it will have smoothing/acceleration. and uncheck the box that says "enhance pointer precision". if you dont do this you will never develop proper muscle memory
@@Timonator2 why does it have to be 6/11? Might sound dumb but if the game you're playing has raw input on, why does the windows pointer speed matter?
@@mewmore6147it doesnt
I am always set to 800DPI and it seems that it's perfectly fine for pretty much all situations, I rarely have a game that it too high on minimum value, I tried 1600DPI to get the tiny reduction in latency but some games couldn't go low enough and I can't be bothered constantly switching, but the difference in latency between 800 and 1600 is so minor anyway
I set mine to 20k DPI and turned the windows mouse settings cursor speed to 1. Feels the same as 1600 at default windows setting.
@@CABALlc1 you don’t want to fuck with windows settings. Leave it at 6
I believe you can use RawAccel to solve that. Sens multiplier. You also don't have to use the accel feature.
@@CABALlc1 windows mouse settings dont affect any game still played today
on 1080p 800 dpi should be subpixel precise to about 9.4''/360° and slower. on 1440p to about 12.8''/360° and slower, bot assuming 90° fov
Good job buddy 👍
I like to crank the DPI and lower the sensitivity in game to what feels good. Seems to get a much smoother feel. Basically same idea as a higher resolution making a smoother image all other things being equal.
Great video. I’d like to see a video about changing the in-OS Windows sensitivity and how it affects games and input lag. Historically, adjusting the in-OS Windows mouse sensitivity from its default position produces major mouse inaccuracies, which can lead to your games feeling all wrong. It is reminiscent to when you have the “Enhance pointer precision” checkbox set on ON. (Which you should also never do.) There is a lot of research out there about it that you can Google for anyone curious.
Most games nowadays use raw input from the mouse though, so that _shouldn't_ be a factor. Unless you're playing an older game of course. Completely agree that it could be a nice video to see though, just get a definitive answer once and for all.
@jparkerwillis I’d also like to know if the settings are different if you’re using the new Windows 10 sensitivity slider or the classic method inside the Control Panel.
Generally speaking the windows mouse settings do not affect games as these use raw input.
@@Plazmunky It's the new one that matters in Windows 10, not sure why everyone always talks about it like there's just 11 steps. The "classic" steps just correlate to _1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20_ on the new slider - yet all of those on the new one do affect cursor movement. If you set it to 19 for example, instead of 20 there is a difference 5% in speed.
@@BattleNonSense hi there, I'm curious about using macro software like X-Mouse button control will add some input lag, can you test it? for some reason many gamers use that software to change or create macro on their mouse like burst click or like auto reload when clicking button
Maybe mice with lower max DPI on their sensors generally have less input lag than using the same DPI on a mouse with a higher max DPI. So a Viper Mini with 8k max DPI using 1000 DPI has less latency than a Deathadder v2 with 20k max DPI using 1000 DPI because of how high/low the DPI is currently set relative to the maximum DPI possible.
🙌🙌🙌
yeah but in the end its still 1000 dpi so its gonna be the same thing
THANK YOU SO MUCH
i used to play at 800 dpi for some time but i was thinking to try 1600dpi and there was a noticable difference , now i'm staying at 1600dpi i'm using a logitech g102 , thank you for your great and informative videos as always :)
Is the double click issue fixed I want to buy that mouse?
I'd love to see if the DPI affects tracking accuracy. If you could somehow do the same movement over and over, but not a simple linear one, I'd love to see if the lower latency comes at the cost of lower accuracy in travelled distance (I'm assuming that the higher sensibility should have higher errors and while also extrapolating less data more often).
It doesn't in any good sensor implementantion nowadays. Which is truth for probably any new mouse and sensor. Still, you don't have any difference in "latency" going at higher or low DPI values. Don't worry about it. Use a value that you're confortable with.
@@daniloberserk the video and other independent test literally show a difference in latency lmao what? Also why are you putting the word latency in quotes as if it's something that doesn't exist? It seems more like since you don't understand it, you rather play make believe that it isn't real
@@RequiemOfSolo I'm honestly tired to discuss this here. This discussion isn't even new, I remember when cpate talked about that on OCN. I literally work with perypherals and I'm digging every community about this stuff since 2004. I don't care if dumb kids nowadays don't have enough critical thinking to filter stupid information. Battle non sense spreaded misinformation from amd chill and the person who actually developed that tool had to correct him about his misinformation on the topic. And battlenonsense never replied the post or updated the video. So this should tell enough about the "source" that he is. - Does an atomic clock measure a second faster then an quartz clock? Is 4k screen 4 times faster then 1080p because they show 4 times the amount of pixels? Unless some sensor has serious design flaws, every count will be reported at the same rate. The handicap here is an bigger threshold of movement for less DPI. It's that simple. Since people is trying to reduce input lag while using the same eDPI, and a flick from point A to point B will still take the same amount of distance when moving the mouse. It doesn't matter if "first on screen reaction" happens faster with more DPI, you're just moving less degrees of motion. No one flicks an subpixel motion, your input chain will not work any faster. More "reactive" motion doesn't mean you have less latency. This is why DPI /CPI is mouse RESOLUTION and not mouse "speed". And the rule with resolution is, enough is enough. Unless you're playing with an ludicrous high eDPI value, It's pointless to change DPI for any "theoretical" advantage, even for the geekest of the geeks. Like seriously. It's not that hard to understand. You can have the same effect just by moving your arm faster. As soon as the speed of motion matches a single count for any DPI you're using, both will be reported with the same latency. Of course. Since we can't have infinite speed and acceleration. Higher DPI will always report a single count faster. But unless you're raising your eDPI, you can't take advantage from that for any real application , since any usefull motion will take hundreds or even thousands of counts sometimes. He should've measure the amount of time for a motion from point A to B on the screen. Not "first on screen reaction". As I said a lot of times here already, bad methodology leading to stupid conclusions. - Believe in whatever you want. Battle non sense is just and average guy with an enormous ego, he's not willing to take a second thought about his conclusions. But I do, as I used to believe that high DPI was objectively better for the same reason. Good luck with those "faster" 0.00001 degrees of motion. It'll certainly unlock your divine powers in gaming. God bless those sacred KZheadrs dumbing down complex discussions so the average kids can "know stuff" without wasting their brain power. Maybe one day when I have enough patience I'll make an more "visual" explanation for the dumb ones. If you really need less input lag on a mouse. Which is already the smallest source of lag in your input chain. Just buy any mice that has a polling rate of 8khz. I arguee that the best thing about 8khz is better flick shot precision and not input lag. But only for games who actually can support sub frame input. As overwatch does for example.
@@daniloberserk can you point me to where I claimed the input lag difference was large enough to significantly improve my in game skill? I don't seem to ever recall that being the point I made. Weird how that happens. Please refrain from turning this into your personal blog where you dump all of your schizophrenic ramblings and pent up anger from previous interactions. My point was that the reduction simply does exist. Also you're wrong about the mouse being the smallest source of lag in the entire chain. It is one of the smallest yes, but game simulation and driver latency are both smaller on average for majority of systems/games/drivers. Display scanout can be even smaller too with 240-390hz displays.
@@RequiemOfSolo it doesn't exist any difference if you hit the threshold for a single count on any DPI setting. It's really not that hard to understand that. Just because you need less movement for a single count with high DPI doesn't mean the mouse works "faster". And as I said. First on screen reaction for this measurement is useless. Unless for some reason an bad sensor may work different in some DPI setting, which used to happen when sensors had native resolutions. Not the case anymore. Even an schizophrenic may understand this discussion better then you tbh (or most fanboys from this video).
Question: When at a lower DPI (like 100) it takes a longer distance of travel for the mouse before it sends another signal. A longer travel does not mean more input lag, it means more movement of the mouse before it sends more signals to the pc. Was this considered when making the test? I dont know as much about latency as you do, so correct me if im wrong.
At the slow speed (10mm, 100ms) it should only take 2.5ms to move between DPI points at 100dpi. Maybe the acceleration delay, from stationary to full speed, is affecting it. It could be mouse smoothing built into the firmware.
I put in the same question (he replied to my comment). It wasn't apparently.
Please make a full test with different mouses like G502 Hero and others and also would be cool to see non rounded dpi settings too on all of them to see if setting kinda random numbers will also affect them like would 801 ou 805 or 810... perform the same as 800dpi on all the mouses?
Merci Chris !
I used to enjoy 400dpi at sens 2 or 3 on most fps games and 2 - 3 months ago I switched to 1600 dpi at sens 1 feels better tracking
i switched from 800 to 1600 and it feels way better in csgo, i cant go back to 800
@@bo0t3r29 i havent gone back to anyless than 1600 dpi since i made my switch. especially now that i been using the superlight. probably if i go lower than sens 1 now. lol.
Are you sure you aren't measuring a different effect? Like how perhaps a slower DPI means the mouse will have to move further to register sufficient change? In both refresh rates at 100 DPI, you measure about +20ms response time compared to the fastest DPI setting, which suggests to me you are measuring the hysteresis of your setup. Solid methodology though!
he always measure the same distance and the same speed, its like setting low dpi and high in game sens vs high dpi low and low in game sens, it looks correct to me
@@dubby_ow He doesn't do that in this video. See my comment, he even replied confirming that. (he should have done that)
@@Anderson_Roger I feel like static in game sens is a right choice here, so only the dpi of a mouse can have an impact on the result, he couldnt done both, to keep eDPI the same and compare, but I feel that in game sens being just a multiplier of the mouse dpi, wouldnt change anything
I had a similar thought. For these tests, if you scaled in-game sensitivity with DPI, then I think the results would be more comparable. Meaning, 100 DPI with 5 sens would become 200 DPI with 2.5 sens, and so on. Therefore, the amount of 'turning' that occurs is the same since the ratio of DPI to sensitivity is the same.
Also big note: in games with high zoom levels(i.e. battlefield 4's 40x scope) low dpi will fuck up your aim as it'll become jittery, at that point if you're gonna snipe from long range you might as well use a controller instead with how jittery the aiming becomes at sub800 dpi
Basically DPI can be viewed as a measurement update frequency per inch. The higher the DPI the sooner the first measuremnt gets sent when the mouse moves. Which results in lowering the input lag in effect. But we can also increase the physical movement speed of the mouse movement to get the measurement sent earlier when we have low DPI which also lowers the input lag. At certain movement speeds we reach a cap on input lag irrelevant of the DPI.
WOW i love this. as someone who lives for data, this is GREAT
You actually did it lol. :D
Are the results adjusted for sensitivity? Cuz it would be interesting to see if there is a difference between (let's say) "100 DPI with sensitivity 10" in game compared "1000 DPI with sensitivity 1" to see if there is a delay because the sensor isn't registering the movement or simply because the game doesn't update the camera position because the input value is too small!
= same eDPI
Yeah the test methology is inaccurate and inconclusive without accounting for eDPI. He should retest with the proper ingame sensitivity adjusted.
@@TheVoitokas this
I think he's not using a game with a concept of 'sensitivity' or 'eDPI', it's using software which flashes the screen black -> white on an input (i.e. one mouse packet with count values)
@@tomhepz we still need ingame tests with same eDPI lol. Nobody plays testing software😂
I'd be very interested in seeing some objective way of comparing mouse pads particularly Artisan one's on gaming performance and tracking on here
Interesting content as always Chris. Just one thing, I was under the impression you wanted to keep the windows mouse setting at 6/half way, as it was one to one movement? I know that's mainly for gaming purposes but still, I'd be hesitant to change that day to day. Thanks man.
yeah this affects games that dont have "raw input" in the settings. Generally its fine to make it go below 6 but if you go above, you start skipping pixels. Think about it like this; if you move two pixels by default and want to half that, you move one pixel every time the game wouldve gotten two pixels of movement. If you want to double the sensitivity, youd move 4 pixels for every 2 pixels of movement. This would mean that the smallest movement you can do is 2 pixels, hence the pixel skipping.
could you test if CPU frequency scaling makes any difference in input latency? (ie. allow cores to go into a lower clock instead of being locked at the highest p state)
when you are running a game your cpu is at max frequency so it doesn't matter at all.
@@eniff2925 this is not true at all, every CPU has multiple c/p-states (modern have 13), and every core on a cpu has different silicon quality, this is why single threaded boosting exists by default
@@XTripleJaxX c-states only activate at idle. When i play any game i can see my processor frequency run at maximum. So where is the problem?
@@XTripleJaxX Boosting is only cancelled if you don't have thermal headroom
@@eniff2925 your probably using the high performance plan which will only net you a small all-core boost if any because TDP will be maxed, use the balanced plan instead (if your on AMD you might need the chipset drivers depending on the CPU and will have to use the AMD plan), also you will only boost if you have significant thermal headroom (-20C to -30C) TJMAX on AMD and PROCHOT on intel, if your CPU still isint boosting make sure you actually have it enabled in BIOS although most motherboards support it, not all mobo VRMs will allow boosting
I've always been using 400 DPI, not only because it feels good imo, but also because a lot of games have horrible ingame sensitivity settings, sometimes not even supporting decimal spaces. That means I basically have to use a low DPI to get anywhere near my usual eDPI. But I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem :/
Yup that was the main reason I stuck to 400 dpi for so long, but recently after battlenonsense made this discovery I switched to 800 dpi anything higher is too fast for me, and so far I havent ran into too many problems with sensitivity scaling in modern games, but a few years ago it was really common.
esports title have raw input
@@TheKillerZmile raw input doesnt invalidate the use of a higher DPI. Raw input means mouse input goes directly to game, meaning the input doesnt get rendered by your windows sensitivity settings or mouse acceleration by windows, anything like that. It's useful for sure, but the whole DPI thing still applies. 400 DPI is pretty suboptimal but unless you NEED every competitive edge you can get, you should probably go up to 800 or 1600. Just because my mouse can I use 12000 DPI with sensitivity on everything including windows scaled all the way down. Unless a game doesn't support extremely low sensitivities I have the DPI scaled up in Logitech G HUB. If your mouse can increase DPI super high I recommend you try it out, it's super cool to see how responsive your camera is to tiny mouse adjustments. And when you take a second to look close you can see how unresponsive your mouse was compared to with a higher DPI. This is unnoticeable with normal use unless you're making microadjustments in an FPS game
rawaccel homie!
The amount of effort put into this video is insane to me
Dude, you deserve way more subs. Thanks for the effort you put in, it's appreciated
There is a difference between DPI & simple mouse sensitivity, DPI stands for 'Dots Per Inch', so just like the pixels on your screen, your mouse sort of does the same on your mouse pad, but completely different and in a physical way. 100 dpi for instance is basically skipping parts on your screen, where 20k dpi feels as if your game is being rendered around how you move your mouse. (check out banagaming dpi video if you want to know more, he tested this out 2 years ago and made me realize why my mouse wasn't shit but I just didn't know the difference between dpi & sensitivity in games)
A bit late but do you link to this video?
Linkk
Are you sure this is not simply "the lower the dpi the more movement needs to be done to start mouse movement, hence high delay (of the first action, not continuous actions)"?
This is a very insightful comment. Maybe using the data for when the mouse stops (instead of the start) can minimize this effect...
Does that matter? are you going to game the system by introducing a quick flick before every tracking attempt?
I would wager that this is almost entirely a sensitivity effect, not a latency effect. Controlling for the difference in sensitivity by testing e.g. 1600dpi 4sens against 800dpi 8sens should nullify the overwhelming majority of the difference. Chris is using the data measured with different sensitivites to say that a higher DPI which is scaled down to have equal sensitivity would have an improved latency. The data does not support this at all - it's a mistake in interpretation.
That's the thing. Lower DPI requires more movement to be registered, and is thus slower. The higher DPI for a given movement, the more often updates get registered, hence lower input lag. It's similar to how higher FPS provides lower input lag due to more updates, except that in the case of mouse, the frequency scales with movement speed, hence lower delay at higher speeds. At very high speeds, the input lag due to DPI updates approaches zero, leaving the rest of the system lag that in this case seems to be 20ms.
@@AnimeReference yes, it does matter for specific games, bunnyhop to be specific
I would be interested in knowing if using RawAccel, which primary use is making various acceleration curves but also just let's you reduce mouse sensitivity (for example you could run 3200 dpi and set rawaccel to use 0.5x your sense, making it feel like 1600) would introduce higher latency. This would be useful for people with mice that don't use software for auto adjusting dpi, to have a high dpi with lower latency while still having a lower sense for desktop use.
afaik rawaccel introduces no extra latency as it completely bypasses software and runs as a driver
Battle Non sense Iam a follower since 30 k, I love u bro u doing a great job.
Did you change the Sensitivity ingame to travel the same distance with different DPI? I think this way you tested, in the first case, 100 dpi will travel a little distance, and the 1600+ will travel so much faster, thats why the 1600+ had less input lag. So changing the DPI will make no difference, just change the velocity will. I think the correct way to test will be travel the same distance (like 30cm) with different DPI/Sensitivity values, to see if the DPI alone will change the Input lag.
Yea, I was wondering the same. Possibly the LDAT software is looking at some minimum delta of movement per frame, and at higher dpi you are more likely to trigger that
@@StardidiMarcelis yea, that's what I thought
I did the same test and compensated the sensitivity to match my old one went from 800 to 1600 but no way to actually measure it feels better tho I don't know maybe just placebo effect.
Good point. Most gamers probably have a pretty tight range of speed at which they're comfortable, so the whole "does more dpi reduce latency" thing only becomes interesting when you want to keep your comfortable, trained speed, but wonder if more or less dpi is better. If you do your 30cm/360°, you want to keep it.
He tested for intial movement, you're goofy
I think this makes logical sense due to a lower DPI value only detecting movement after a larger physical distance on your mousepad. This will mean the first input is naturally going to be delayed, however this is the very reason many pro gamers will choose to use 400 DPI, because it detects only significant inputs and will not move your crosshair held on a pixel with a shaky hand for instance. As seen by Battle(non)sense's test with flick shots however, it does not have an effect on the latency of the mouse.
This is exactly why I use 450DPI (used 400 @ 1080p, went to 450 when I upgraded to 1440p). I tried 800 and it's not steady enough, picks up too many micro movements.
Which is why most CSGO players do 400dpi. U need pixel accuracy and ur hand will always have microshakes. We are not robots
@@chy.0190 If you use a low sens you don't get pixel skipping. It is a preference thing, not a legacy thing.
@@chy.0190 No, csgo works really well on 400 and pros will usually play 400 or 800 because it is ideal for stability and precision. Only reason I ever left 400 is orher games not doing well on it, but csgo worked just fine.
@@badnewsbruner too true. Anything above 800 is for CQB
I play a lot of escape from tarkov and I hate having a fast cursor because of constantly being in the inventory. Will changing the windows cursor speed change this? I play on 900 dpi. Should I go up to maybe 1200? Or is 1600 the best. I also use the model o wireless so this mouse would be different
In Counterstrike we compare sensivity in eDPI which is calculated by multiplying DPI with your sensivity. So If you have a DPI about 800 and a ingame sensivity about 1 but want a smoother Mouse with the same sensivity you need to Set your DPI to 1600 and your ingame sensivity to 0.5. Or 400 DPI and Ingamesense 2 for a more steady but Not so smooth sensivity. Very simple
You didnt mention the reason behind the increased input lag. It seems logical to me, that lower DPI "react" slower because the steps between each count are larger, so you have to cover a larger area until the sensor starts detecting movement. Amirite?
Yes
Obviously it reacts slower. The video is about finding out just how much more input lag it adds, not if.
@@rdmz135 Huh?!! Do you even know how the LDAT works?!
This also means that discarding 50% of the mouse counts (or making them move a camera 50% as much) via using a lower sensitivity multiplier would nullify any latency improvement from doubling DPI.
@@AerynGaming Exactly. As soon as every DPI adjustment meets the distance necessary to report 1 count, ALL of then would have the SAME exact input lag at that moment. This video has the most stupid conclusion ever about how mice resolution works. It's like saying that 4k gaming has 50% less input lag at horizontal and vertical movements because you're moving "double the pixels". You can arguee that higher DPI resolution at the same speed will trigger higher polling rate frequency report, but AGAIN, this would be nulified as soon as the lower DPI settings moves the same distance needed for a single count. The only effect that would had at going at higher DPI values is a smoother "granularity effect", that people misinterpret as "pixel skipping". Assuming that the eDPI would be the same.
I always do the same. 1000dpi, 1000hz, Win slider on half, the rest is game by game.
Might this have something to do with the software? Would love to see this test done on other mice with other sensors with and without software.
Another GREAT video ! Nice