Three Arguments in Favour of Scottish Independence - TLDR News
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It seems possible that the SNP and Scottish Greens are about to form a pro-independence alliance, so we thought we'd run through the arguments in favour of a Scottish exit. So in this video we discuss three major arguments used by those proposing Scottish independence and debate whether those arguments really stand up.
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CORRECTION: At 2:06 the 2017 results should have been 35 instead of 54 - sorry for any confusion caused
That's fine, but it's not entirely inaccurate, as they did have 54 before the election in 2017
No problem, but please make a video about cornish independence!
Also the shortages on the shelves due to brexit have happened
Snp 1980s "to beat Labour we must become Labour Labour 1990s "to beat the Tories we must become the Tories Labour under Corbyn "we're Labour again" Scotland "fool me once..."
Hey! I would like to know where you get the Scottisch independence graphs! Do you have any sources? I need it for my thesis haha
Ah yes the Norwegian military’s strength is looming in the background of this entire debate. The vikings will return.
Scotland, the gates to valhalla...
I mean, here in Norway we have talked about how Scottish independence could bring back some historical ties, with some for example suggesting that one of our princes would be a good candidate for Scottish monarch
@@sundhaug92 Why not, England has Germans ruling the country.
@@sundhaug92 While I'm sure many Scots would like closer ties with Norway I don't think anyone wants a Norwegian monarch. Most likely they'd just go without monarchy, if they did want a monarchy they'd probably just keep the British monarchy (like Australia etc) or elect a noble from the Scottish peerage.
@@bapo224 Maybe Franz von Wittelsbach, duke of Bavaria could become the Scottish monarch since he is the heir according to the Jacobite succession. (jk)
You left out the most important one - separate Eurovision entries
This would give Scotland a chance of being on the winning side for once
They'd stand more of a chance there if there HAD been Scoxit
Juging by UK's recent entries, Scotland could probably beat UK every time!
@@squeaksquawk4255 Maybe they'd just call the country England-and-Wales, yes they would beat them all the time!
@@squeaksquawk4255 it’s not hard to beat 0 points :)
I just love the idea of BoJo arguing that separating from a larger union will be a disaster
🍿🍿🍿
England and Scotland are much closer culturally and in terms of interest than the UK and continental Europe. I know what you mean but not quite the same thing. And he would politically have something to gain from Scotland leaving, Labour can say goodbye to winning an general election basically but he views the Union as more important than short term political gain which I think is admirable even if you don’t agree
@Vladimír Januška Total sense. Scotland has much greater freedom in our union than it would have under the eu. Look at Greece. We wouldnt do that to Scotland. Although they are quite capable of doing it to themselves, via the SNP !
Yep, might want to talk to the Irish.
@@davidsaunders1125 Yeah, the freedom to be ruled by England, as mentioned in the video. (Violations)
I dont understand why anyone says Scottish independence is a bad concept. I live in the Republic of Ireland and we left the UK just over 100 years ago. We have a similar population to Scotland and we are thriving. Our economy is stronger than Scotlands and we are full members of the single market. The fact that Scotland have been pulled out of the EU because the English wanted to leave cannot be overlooked. I think once the UK economy starts doing badly- this will certainly happen in the short term- I believe the Scots will have every reason to become independent with an eye on rejoining the EU.
Excellent comments Gary, thank you.
Exactly. Their MPs have very little voice in parliament unfortunately, and have suffered as a result of Brexit despite wanting to stay. I think it's not cut and dry, and there would need to be quite a bit of diplomatic discussion and compromise but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Like Ireland, Scotland has been historically oppressed by the British and faced persecution for simply living, speaking their own language etc. Its hard to believe even after all this time England has Scotland's best interests at heart! And seeing MPs not get understood "because of their accents" makes my blood boil!
the Uks economy is not beginning to fall apart it has fallen apart.. no one here can afford to live...
Never met a nationalist using the "How bad could it be arguement" more likely "look how bad it is"
Well, can´t blame them for that, after all, they function at the edge of intelligence, mostly at the false side of said edge.
@@klausbrinck2137 I think given the fact you assume all nationalists to be unintelligent really highlights the Unionist ethos. In that if they disagree with me they must be stupid, but hey that's ok. Remember you all voted for Brexit to "take back control" Can't blame nationalist for voting Yes to get control.
@@klausbrinck2137 so your reaction to people living in hard conditions wanting to have more control over their government, and therefore their lives, is just "they're stupid" with no argument? That's exactly why independence is so likely.
@@novemberbravo7769 Just wanted to point out, that nationalists are stupid enough to not being able to anticiipate the consequences of actions. The scottisch nationalists are nationalists when it comes to their english overlords, so, they´re nationalists just by name, but they like other countries, like those in the EU. Brexiteers are the actuall and only nationalists in this diskussion. Nobody in the EU perceives the SNP as a nationalistic country (for Europeans, the Torys are a nationalistic party), so, stop joking.
@@klausbrinck2137 You're right, noone can really (i mean 100% definitely) anticipate the consequences. But still there have been dozens of governments that more or less successfully freed themselves from Westminster in one way or another (with variing outcomes), Ireland would be the closest and it seems to be doing fine. And if the people want independence (preferable two thirds of them or more) then why stop them? It's a democracy after all, the whole point is that the people choose. And if they choose independence then so be it, mòran fortan, Alba.
I had to laugh out loud at the notion of Norway invading Scotland. It's likelier for England to try to anex Scotland, which would result in an international nightmare.
Yeah I had to give a strong laugh on that one as well.
Didn't work for the Romans or Anakin. Remember - we have the high ground!
Tony Blair already has annex ~6k square KM's of Scottish oilfields. He never consulted the Scottish people and he would have never received their consent!
Let's just entertain your idea for a second. Who would help Scotland? Every nation with its own separatist movement will want no part of it, which leaves out more than half of Europe lol. And the US has been growing more disillusioned with holding up the military ceiling for the entire world. So honestly speaking, who do you think will help Scotland?
@@thefastandthedead1769 Who's consent?
All I’m going to say is that I cannot wait to see a Scottish passport and customs along the border with England. “I like my neighbours, but I don’t want them running my house.”
I see it as one house in which one family lives: not my house or your house. Half Scottish and half English, I like being part of the wider family.
@@orianhutton8711 Problem in that house today is that the Scottish are only allowed to live in the attic, the Northern Irish in the basement and the Welsh in the cupboard under the stairs while the rest of the house is occupied by the English and off limits for the other ones.
@@flitsertheo Never felt the rest of the house was off limits myself. Same problem with the EU: majority voting with even less control. Why on earth anyone would see that as a better option is beyond me. I hope CANZUK happens with free trade and movement between Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK. Do Scots want to lose out on that one?
@Teutonic Knight Like London carries more weight and influence in England.
So you'd rather have some guy from Brussels running your house,ok have fun.
On the subject of Scotland not having an army to defend itself with, I have to ask. Defend itself from whom? England? Because it is otherwise surrounded on all sides by the EU or EU allies and a gigantic ocean. Who's going to attack, Aquaman?
But its also a matter of jobs... where do many thousands of people who were in the British army (and non military support roles) go for work when the British army is moved out of Scotland? Now a lot might choose to stay in the British army and move across the border but there is a lot of non-military people who would either be out of a job overnight or have their local economy decimated.... Are there enough other jobs avaliable for them to re-hire into? It seems the safest bet to the Scottish economy is to rehire people into a Scottish military.... local economies are supported by bases still having people in them, lots of people would move from the disbanded British regiments to a new Scottish army etc... the downside is the Scottish taxpayer now has to wholly fund something they've only 'partially' funded before.... It makes sense (just from a jobs perspective) to retain some form of military...
Those slicky vikings would
@@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you It's still possible to maintain a UK military presence in Scotland through leasing bases, or a joint defence treaty, akin to Irish independence in 1922 when the Royal Navy used 3 Irish ports until the 1930s.
Scotland should build up its own defence forces from scratch not to be dependent at Westminster just like Singapore did after being expelled from the Malaysian Federation in 1965 and they got help from Israel a small country surrounded by larger enemies but its military has a fearsome reputation, don't be hesitant to seek advice from them and Scottish military will grow.
@@dennis12decAnd again, defend itself from whom or what? Scotland is surrounded on most parts by the biggest project for peace, in European history.
When they are selling pins for Scottish independence and for UK Unity "I’m playing both sides so I always come out on top"
Well that's one of TLDR main selling points. They try their best to be impartial.
@@zerto111 well, one the one hand it’s impartial, on the other it’s making money from operating on both sides. As long as two idiots buy I’m sure they’re happy
Do they have an Anglosphere button?
That might qualify as a conflict of interest for the TLDR News staff if they had some sort of policy-making role, I suppose. As it is, they are just selling merchandise that sometimes can be interpreted as support for certain causes that do not always align with each other. Hardly a worry.
picturing Mac wearing both pins at the same time side by side
Love the «Norway might attack» We give Scotland a Christmas Tree every year as a Thank You for the help in the 2. WW
Lol. An independent Scotland would obviously create its own defence forces. Something every country does when it gets its independence. 🤪
Yeah I think we'd get on just fine with all our Nordic neighbors. A Scottish Defence Force could be simple as well, focus on maritime patrol operations using aircraft and Frigates, have Marines without an Army etc. Without expensive aircraft carriers, heavy armour and nuclear deterrent a modest budget would go a long way as seen by Finland or New Zealand.
@@stephenmurphy2212 well EU tend to defend its bordes. :) we will find ways to monetary help our new friends dont you be worried about that
@@jono_cc2258 Scotland should build up its own defence forces just like us here in Singapore after our break up with Malaysia in 1965 and we're completely on our own, in the building up of our Armed Forces we were declined help by larger nations even the UK as they gradually pulled out during that time but one came to help us that was Israel a small country surrounded by larger enemies yet its military has a formidable and fearsome reputation and 56 years later look where we are now today, don't hesitate to seek advice from them and an independent Scottish Defence Forces will grow, stop relying on Westminster.
Some of these people just believe newspaper nonsense. I have sung around that tree on many a year too
To be fair to Boris Johnson, he IS an expert on inevitable disasters.
but far from an expert at avoiding them...
@@richardcrompton9067 yes that was the deliberate implication 🙃
Boris and Brexit are A disaster already food shortages showing that Brexit really is disaster nothing positive signs.. Are that one day Scotland will be free one day
@@richardcrompton9067 Oh, we meant in making inevitable disasters.
I’m French, and I want to inform all the Scottish people that we are more than willing to revive the Auld Alliance.
cheers
Germany
👍🏴😎
Scotland and France allied against England. A common scenario in history. The pragmatic amongst will ask, " and when did the Auld Alliance ever bring any good to Scotland, except the satisfaction in knowing that it annoyed a lot of English people ?
So it can fail again?
I'd throw Betrayal in as a Reason. In the Last Scottish Referendum, the fear that staying in the UK was the only way to remain in the EU was a big threat levied against pro-independence voters. Then a couple years later it's shown to be for naught.
Agreed.
Yup, the English government lied as per usual.
Yup
The referendums happened in the wrong order. But then that is exactly what Cameron intended...
@@Megalomaniakaal Cameron did not intend on leaving the EU
I don't want Scotland to leave but I can definitely sympathies with them as like Westminster is pretty fucking out of touch with my needs and I'm just in Yorkshire
Maybe Yorkshire could join Scotland for a better present and future.
The Shetland islands etc say the same thing about the NSP devolved Parliament.
Maybe one of Yorkshire's problems is that some of your money is being spent on Scotland to keep the nationalists happy.
At the end of the day, it might be healthier for all parts of the union to disassociate; it's just not healthy to have the kind of political monoculture the UK's system creates, and I feel that as separate parts, you'd be more likely to see actual (political) competition everywhere, the kind that hopefully keeps the politicians a little more honest.
@@English_Dawn next joke please haha
A country being in charge of itself, rather than asking another country if they can change a law... Yes. Too much to ask. That's such a ridiculous idea.
To be honest, where do we draw the line? Cities don't agree with each other. London disagrees with the rest of England.
@@Moses_VII the line is one is a country, the other is a city.
not forgetting that the other country decided to leave a bigger union because of that reason.
@@hurensohn7605 two "unions" are not the same. And let's not tug each others pee pee's.. brexit was never about that.
@@hurensohn7605 Are you daft ? Scotland asked for a indiref. We gave them an indiref. Scotland voted to STAY in the Union ! Out of the 23 polls in Scotland in the last year, Scotland voted to Stay in the Union. The 3 saying they wanted to leave had a majority of around 1% ! What more could you ask ,? Scotland does not want to leave the Union !!!!
basically every country in the world runs their public services under a deficit, so this complaint is really odd.
exactly what i thought as soon as it was mentioned
Absolutely. Furthermore, if the income changes, then the expenditures could simply be adjusted. A bunch of options will be availalbe. No waste on military expanditures, legalization on soft drugs (to get sales taxes out of it and reduce cots for courts, prisons and police) etc.
@@benjaminmeusburger4254 also, being able to borrow and/or print money to fill in deficit gaps would allow scotland to make larger economic investments into their country, potentially giving them a strong enough tax base to fund the services, and even if they can't neither can most of the world.
Best of all, nobody would waste their money on dumb projects/purchases.
@@watfordgap6737 depends how far left you go
Can TLDR please make a video on why the UK wants Scotland to stay? What does the UK gain from Scotland?
Well its more England that benefits since they extort resources from Scotland and also Wales just to mention
Can I recommend a book I read, Tim Marshall, the power of geography. It has a chapter which really sets out the UK's position on Scottish independence.
@@rossswann3346 Looks very interesting, might take a look soon, thanks!
@@joshuacarre06 what do you mean?
@@joshuacarre06 I wouldn’t think it was due to economics, as far as I’m aware the UK government gives Scotland a lot more than they recoup in tax. The Scottish deficit was nearly £2000 per person per year pre-Covid (9% of GDP). I’d imagine it’s more to do with territory and power as the other guy commented.
Would welcome Scotland back to EU
7:00 “Brexit was supposed to mean … food shortages”. Hmm, checked your Tesco’s Local recently?
Yep, they have removed alot of choice and stopped the bulk buying. Plus your limited in how many things you can buy.
As a Scotsman I do love reading the comments on videos about this.
If I may ask. What ist your opinion on this topic?
@@lebl992 mad gammons are funny is the only opinion.
I definitely agree the comments are always entertaining. As a fellow scot I do find it interesting as to the fact there are very few videos on how us leaving would affect the rest of the UK outside of the separatist argument of the of NI and W.
@@garymaxwell3086 from an economic point probably not much except energy maybe. But as a society it would be the last nail in the coffin of the one Great empire of Great Britain
Have you considered the risk of a Norwegian invasion ?
I've always said Boris Johnson is a one nation Conservative..., but its just that nation is England.
No boris is a no nation conservative what has boris ever done for England apart from cause more hardships he only serves himself
I cant think of anyone who could work with sturgeon. She makes it impossible.
England is a country, the United Kingdom is s nation. Please tell me you're not British.
@@sambra1979 Imagine Sturgeon and Mutti going head to head?🤣
Possible United Ireland, Scotland independents, crashing the English economy and its reputation around the world. God Boris would have make a great IRA oppreative.
Not a lot of Scots are a fan of having the UK nuclear subs right next to our most populous city either
I was heavily against Scottish independence years ago, but ever since Brexit, I wholeheartedly support Scottish independence. I'll root for you guys.
@rigamortice Things have changed since 2014...
Funny I was / am the exact opposite ie voted leave in 2014 (childish protest vote) and would vote stay if there was a 2nd referendum. Don't trust SNP or Labour with full control of country's finances. Plus way more in common / strength of trading ties with rest of UK than EU. Plus, security and border control better as UK
Where do you live?
Scotland would never be able to join the EU
@@Tay12345Of course they would be able to join EU
On the subject of an independent Scotland having no military, most likely it would work similarly to the Irish army. After Ireland became independent in 1922, as part of the treaty with the UK, most of the Irish units in the british army that were stationed on the island became part of the new Irish army. A couple remained in the British army and Irish citizens were afforded the right to continue joining the British army if they choose. I could see a new Scottish army going the same way, with the majority of Scottish regiments based in Scotland joining the Scottish army, but some regiments such as the Scots guard remaining in the British army.
what would happen with the nuclear submarines?
@@simonabunker nuclear weapons complicate it but the SNP has expressed it's opposition to nuclear weapons so most likely these would be kept by the UK.
No British army units became part of the Irish Free State Army upon Ireland achieving independence. A number of Irish regiments remained in the British Army, and a number of them completely disbanded. Quite a few ex-British army soldiers who had served in these regiments joined the Irish army upon disbanding, but that was on an individual basis, not a transfer of units.
@@CJ-ow7sr I mean that the units were disbanded and their troops were transferred to the Irish army. They were given a choice but it wasnt just a few officers, most of the civil war national army was made up of former British soldiers, over 20,000 British soldiers joined the new Irish army. Many Irish army units claim direct lineage to British army units, such as the 1st infantry battalion which is directly descended from the Connaught Rangers.
@@simonabunker Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). Basically the weapons belong to the UK so if Scotland leaves they have to hand them over and the UK having signed the NPT is not allowed to give a few token ones to Scotland.
Leaving the UK okay, but leaving Britain that's a bit extreme.
Hadrian's wall more like Hadrian's sea
I think the Atlantic needs more islands
LOL
"United" Kingdom has nothing united about it , is more Britain and his Subjects. So yes the video title does make sense even more when you watch the video.
@@berserkirclaws107 you missed the joke
Scotland must be independent soon! The UK only exists because of the Monarchy's role of uniting the countries... Brexit just caused this independence situation to get worse and worse to control.
You had a referendum on the matter not even 10 years and it went thought as NO respect the result and accept that Scotland won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.
@@copyer9088 That's rubbish! The UK is crumbling... It is just the consequence of the horrible and xenophobic BREXIT! Scotland deserves to be free! Northern Ireland will join the Republic of Ireland really soon! The UK will be disbanned before 2030! Good riddance! It is time to wake up!
@@rodvr_ptEng While a agree that Brexit has pushed the support independence closer in Scotland. You can’t deny the fact that you voted on the matter not even 10 years ago it was supposed to be a once in a generation vote. You have to respect the result of the 2014 vote that’s the democratic way. It democracy get used to it.
@@rodvr_ptEng do you really think the people of Northern Ireland are going to back to have no NHS? As well of water tax’s? There no benefits to Irish unity just as well there’s no benefit to Scottish independence. H
@@copyer9088 The UK is crumbling as a country since June 2016... The government is wrongly lead by a corrupted prime-minister. This institution is disregarding the other countries' needs. No real public investment is being done in Wales, Northern ireland and Scotland, in terms of devolution rights. Cornwall wants be considered as a historic nation and it wants to be autonomous like the other 3 fellow Celtic neighbour countries and England does not permit it. There is no such thing as a vote for a generation... There is always democracy and the will to be free from the foreign rule of England! A new referendum will be held, even if England loathes it. Good riddance. The NHS is being horribly destroyed and dismantled. The hate for the European immigrants is despicable and illogical. They were the ones "to fill in the gaps" for the "jobs" that the English did not want to perform and they also paid a lot of taxes (40% of their incomes were heavily taxed) to help to finance the central government's budget. Ireland will become a whole country again, even if the proudful English do not want it! The Good Friday agreement is severely damaged by your country's stupid and irracional policies agains the EU. Brexit is a total disaster. Pride is not Power! The proudful English will have England as their only portion of the country by 2030! Your country will once again be part of the EU, as soon as the Labour party forms a government in coalition with the Liberal democrats! Justice will be served, it is just a matter of time.
Another pro independence argument is that joining the EU would probably be fast tracked sice they were already members, and being a EU member was one of the arguments against independence last time around.
True just need to make sure its either done before serbia joins and not around a time spains separatists start shouting about independence.
But surely if you leave the UK and then join the EU you won’t be independent as a member of the EU you have follow there laws and they have control over the boarders as well.
Well. of course, the most important missing argument would be Scotland's ability to apply for EU membership. Surprised you didn't include it.
Well, now that we arent in the EU does it matter how long it would take? Still faster than staying in Little Britain
Application and getting are two entirely different things, maestro.
@@Paul-zk2tn You are one confused puppy, chico.
@@jamesberry5578 What did I say that was wrong exactly?
@@Paul-zk2tn Thing is, Spain will almost certainly block Scotland's introduction into the EU. They have their own problems with separatism (catalonia) and they don't want to set off MORE protests.
Fundamentally the question is one of self determination. If Scotland is never governed by people who espouse the policies that Scottish people vote for then a change is needed. Brexit is the prime example,, Scottish people don’t want Brexit, they want alignment with our most important partners. If rejoining the EU requires independence then sign me up and get the border posts ready at Berwick. We could also ask JRM for one of those technical solutions to borders that he said were super easy
Your "most important partners" completely failed when it came to COVID.
@@TheJeremyHolloway this is weak and getting weaker by the day as EU countries surpass UK vaccination rates as we type. They have also managed to have lower levels of death and less impact in their economy. I’ll take those partners any day of the week
@@TheJeremyHolloway Which “most important partners” are you referring to?
@@TheJeremyHolloway Actually, when it came to the part that could be fully controled (i.e. regulating covid pre-vaccine), the UK government failed. A larger percentage of people died because of that failure. The UK simply picked the right horse in the vaccine race and thus got more vaccines early on. Which gave them a better start but that was more down to luck. Which is now being proven because the EU is easily overtaking the UK as we speak.
@@TheJeremyHolloway Ah I see. Well even Portugal has a higher per-capita vaccination rate than the UK.
The thing that annoys me the most is England and Westminster hate us yet won’t let us leave and the reason is they are afraid that we will be become powerful and richer than them
I don’t hate Scotland.. my dads Scottish. But I feel and it’s clear you hate us. Go if you want to go... I personally would be all for a second vote if it ends this constant arguing... it’s getting boring.
Sooner the better 🏴
Funny that'Brexit hasn't caused empty shelves' comment. As of 1st Oct 2021 is starting to look accurate.
just before 7 min in! oh, i really was confussed by that that bit! it looked like news images we DID see last days about UK , but they must have been historic look-a-likes, since this video is from august :-D
It's due to a lack of drivers
@@HMSVanguard46 mmm, and about 50.000 went away because of brexit...
@Ian Martin well, it's dripping in the EU, while it's stroming in the UK.. thanks to UK warning we start taking it more seriously then we otherwise probably would. But i can't even think of a single tank station i've seen without petrol to tank :). empty shells, some, mostly UK produce not entering any more
I'd say the potential of being in the EU should be a factor specifically mentioned. Emphasis on the potential part of that answer.
Yes, an arguement to not be independent. But seeing as the eu have made it clear Scotland won't be joining how is it even an arguement.
@@sambra1979 they haven't made that clear
Scotland wouldn’t be able to join the EU due to their enormous deficit. It would take many, many years of austerity and tax rises to try and balance the books so that they’re eligible for EU entry.
@@ImmuneGEORGE As Scotland is not even allowed to run a deficit and take on debt, I do not see that as a problem.
@@neodym5809 Do you know how many separatist movements there are in Europe lol? They will NEVER have an unanimous vote needed to join the EU. It's ok to be optimistic, not delusional.
Funny how sovereignty was so central to Brexit, yet those same people don’t like devolution or want to allow an independence vote. Where is the Scottish sovereignty in all this?
Because it was all about English sovereignty 😉
Because people's worldviews are full of contradictions
Brexit is all about ENGLISH sovereignty, and making a global britain. Nobody cares about Scotland in the UK
Scotland doesn't have sovereignty, the UK does. The Act of Union dissolved the Kingdoms of Scotland and England in perpetuity.
There was a vote in 2014. Scotland voted to stay.
Main argument from Tories at last Indyref: Scotland would be forced to Leave the EU. Gonna love to watch them squirm.
"How bad can it be?" implies a positive spin on a negative outlook but in my experience independence supporting Scots have a much more positive outlook, focused on typically long term things like improved standard of living (due to more socialist leaning electorate), greater ties with Europe (rejoining EU), better government accountability (e.g. Margaret Ferrier compared with Tories who broke lockdown rules), etc. The short term costs are nothing compared to the long term benefits.
I'm not Scottish, but I don't think it matters whether Scotland will be wildly economically successful by itself or not. If they want independence, they should have it. If countries only existed where it is economically more advantageous, then the whole world would be one big country.
But wanting independence will depend in part on the economic factors which are likely to be negative. Can't really say it dosn't matter.
Fair enough, brexit happened because we voted for it, why not this.
@@joshuaparrott2458 Does it mean brexit was the right decision though ? And does it mean independence is the right decision.
The issue is more how many years should you have between referendums? Most British people (English, welsh and Irish) don't have an issue with Scotland having another vote but's more when.... should it be once in a generation... once in every 10 years, after every UK election or every year.. then how much should the independence have to win by? People still argue today the Brexit vote wasn't a big enough majority for us to leave so should Scotland have to get 60% to leave. In theory the bigger the margins you need the more regular you can have referendums as its a clear mandate but leaving by 1 vote say? this is huge and holds HUGE risks that could divide Scotland as some regions will clearly want to stay soooo this is the question, how often should the votes be and how much should independence have to win by? Should the final agreement be put to referendum is another question you could ask
@@scott.ebusiness i think a 60% or two thirds majority would be fitting and the referendums after every national election because it feels like the right thing to do
The tiny Baltic States have done really well from a very poor start, much worse than Scotland would have as a base!
Exactly! Especially Estonia is doing amazing! Also, Finland as well started as a poor country that heavily relied on agriculture after centuries of being ruled and fought over by Russia and Sweden. It went through a bloody civil war, fought off the Soviet invasion, lost a significant chunk of its territory, and had to resettle 12% of its population, pay massive war reparations, and despite not being invaded was heavily under Soviet influence until its fall. Today Finland is among the top on pretty much every positive ranking of nations. Scotland has a far better starting point! Scotland will do fine on its own.
Ireland, too.
Latvia's population declined by around a million since succession from the USSR, and continues to age and decline. Doesn't bode well for the next generation
@@PadHicks It's surprising how many that left, have gained expertise and are returning home! Riga feels to me, more prosperous than many towns in England!
@@PadHicks Only in the beginning, and every European country has a problem with an ageing demographic
All the Scottish people I know, including my aunts voted to stay in the UK. But they also voted to stay in the EU. Now all those people that voted to stay say they will vote to leave in the next referendum.
Yes to independence No to the SNP
Currency - well Ireland managed it when they became independently. Also, Denmark, Ireland and many other countries are of a similar size to Scotland and are quite prosperous. They may actually do better free from the shackles of Westminster!
Ireland is a tax haven. Denmark did not have to reform it's entire economic, political, cultural, and social structure to achieve independence. It just was.
@@Aragornofmoria Scotland has it’s own legal system and and exports more by value than England does, and the figures are growing too. It will happen sooner or later, just as will Irish reunification. Czechoslovakia managed an amicable divorce, and so can Britain. The English are becoming more and more isolationist and xenophobic.
@@malcolmfranke9958 Scotland exports more by value than England. Ok. What matters more is where it exports to, 63% goes to the rest of the UK. Scotland exports more to countries outside the EU, not including the UK, than to the EU. If you dislike the checks caused by Brexit, imagine a hard border between England and Scotland. Scotland has it's own legal system. So because it decides laws mostly similar to England to affect only its own population, this makes it ready to leave regardless of the other socio-economic hazards the Scottish Parliament has never dealt with. Did you watch TLDR's video against this, including the problems of rejoining the EU? Now, to describe England as a xenophobic suggests you do not live in England and know very few English people because you are going off emotion not fact. You probably believe that England voted to leave the EU, bearing in mind it was only 55% of English voters, suggests you don't understand a considerable number of factors that led to the vote e.g. Jeremy Corbyn being a poor leader, working class being told to stay in the EU for economic security, when their situation is already so bad why would they vote to keep things the same? Boris lying about £330m to the NHS, the leave movement having far better speakers than the remain movement. Those are a few main ones. Scotland is an integral part of Britain and Britain is an integral part of Scotland. The Scots after 10 years of Nationalist rule have become the become the nation with the worst attainment, life expectancy, deficit, drug and alcohol abuse in Britain. Remember, tax, health care, education are dissolved powers. The SNP are to blame but they've managed to spin it on the Tories with their strong propaganda system. If Scotland wants improvement, it needs to stop voting for the party that has failed it for a decade.
@@malcolmfranke9958 In response to Ireland, it has only been unified once, and that was when it was a part of the United Kingdom. Otherwise, not once in history has this been the case. To say it is inevitable I think does a disservice to the Brits there who feel a strong sense of British identity.
Honestly, we'd be fine if Norway invaded us, we love all our Nordic neighbours and would probably welcome them with open arms as family more than friends!
But would be prepared to pay Nordic level of taxation?
@@English_Dawn Without question - if it meant a similar quality of life. Paying taxes is not necessarily a bad thing.
@@English_Dawn difference between welcoming friends and mimicking their entire model. Besides, their income tax rate is 22% for those on roughly £14k-25k a year, ours is 20% for the same income range, not the 70% that people think...because ya know the average person doesn't earn enough to receive that tax rate. Not to mention it's worth the trade off for better public services!
Take it from Canada, Scots. Nobody is going to invade you. Canada has been threatened with that hypothetical idea, throughout its entire existence, but we are still standing. Both our countries have too many friends.
Spoke on like a true Nordic
As a Scotsman, I want my vote to matter, the population of London is bigger than the population of Scotland. If we vote in a major election, we may as well not vote at all unless you vote for the majority. Our vote means literally nothing.
Not a scotsman myself but from an outsiders perspective I absolutely agree, I think the severity of this was shown in the Brexit vote, where the majority of Scotland voted to remain but was made to leave the EU anyway. (For the record this isn't an argument for or against Brexit as I know that's a dicey topic, just an example of the type of situation Scotland is dealing with in regards to representation.)
Scotland and Wales is turning increasingly left wing as England turns increasingly right wing, if you stay in the Union you will have a government that serves your interests less and less with every election. Sincerely, an Irishman.
@@DonFlufflesPrime Exactly, and we have voted against the Tories for the entirety of my lifetime. I want to be able to decide about the political parties affecting the country I actually live in, rather than a completely different country voting for the complete opposite side of the political spectrum
@@kieranrobson3794 I'd say that's an argument everyone can understand, even if they don't agree fully with Scottish independence, but then again I am biased.
@@cameronburke8002 Precisely, we may as well not be offered a vote in the first place, seen as it makes literally no difference whatsoever, what the entire country actually votes when England can just over rule it with simple numbers
As someone who has lived in Scotland since 2013 I have thought long and hard on this matter. I just don't see a way forward with the current setup. Not only are the conservatives slated to win because they have rebranded as English nationalists, but they will do so without actually getting the majority of the vote. I don't think that they have acted in Scotland's best interest (nor England, Wales or Northern Ireland for that matter) and I don't see that changing. I don't see them changing the voting system for Westminster either, as it helps them get a majority with 40% of the vote. A country (at least a democratic one) only works if everyone believes in it.
You have the best of both worlds in the current set up. You are supported economically by being part of a union of peoples who live on this island, and have devolution that pretty much gives the Scottish government power over all but a few things. Any problems in Scotland rest at the feet of the SNP and Scottish Government. Not the UK.
@@rackellar a few things? Drug policy, foreign policy, considering Scotland has a bad drug problem it wouldn't be better for us to decide what to do. Blame the SNP if you like, there are pros and cons to every party. One thing that is certain, they are a magnitude better than the tories, who control way more than "a few things".
@@rackellar note im wont get in to a debate on here, would rather do that over a pint, so I wont be commenting any further to save the "nothing to say?" nonsense that I see all the time 🙏🏼
@@soutarman I’m sorry but drug policy is enforced by police Scotland, which is controlled by the SNP. However sturgeon has already shown her contempt for the rule of law following that immigration removals case in Glasgow, so no wonder things are so bad with drug enforcement in Scotland at the moment.
@@rackellar I'm also sorry to point this out. But, drug policy is just that, policy, not legislation. Drug legislation in the UK (Misuse of Drugs Act 1971) has no separate Scottish equivalent. The Act is under the sole control of the Home Office, which includes, and envelopes policing, and drug related prosecutions and sentencing. Scotland has absolutely no devolved competency to legislate over drugs. The current Scottish minister for drug policy has recently announced that the Scottish Government will go ahead with 'Safe Consumption Rooms', which is currently against the law according to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, and the Home Office ruling. SG minister Angel Constance aims to apply a "Public Health" approach to the situation, as it's all that's within devolved remit. Your comment on the immigration case holds no water. The public themselves took action to stop a right wing government plucking people from their homes.
I think every person and every nation should have the right for self-determination without the reliance of a 3rd person or nation. It's up to the Scots to decide their future.
@rigamortice My point was that Scotland should have the right to vote for independence without asking for permission from Westminster. If a person or nation has to do that it is not real self-determination or real freedom. Edited - you can compare the UK's withdrawal from the EU to the independence vote of Scotland, if you wish. The UK didn't need to ask for anyone's permission to withdraw from the EU. While Scotland has to ask for permission. I am just wondering here what freedom we provide to our four nations and if the system we have in place is democratic or autocratic.
As an English person I would be very sad to see Scotland leave. However if I was a Scot I would be desperate to leave. I don’t think it would be particularly good for them economically but I would want to leave because of the quality of democracy in the UK. We currently have an unelected HoL, a partially democratic FPTP electoral system and a minority rule Tory party attacking the democratic process. If Scotland were to leave then they could become a modern 21st century democracy.
They'll enjoy all that democracy when they run out of money and find out Germany isn't interested in subsidising another Greece as a part of the EU
Agreed. Also I hope that they would be a better example to us and maybe encourage us to improve too
leave the uk and join an even more undemocratic eu?
@@toffeesky6227 dude Scotland has an economy that can hold its own
@@WW-to5rc ah the 'dude trust me' argument
Conservatives dominating England wouldnt be as big a deal if the UK was an actual democracy and didn't use the broken first past the post system. Vote percentages don't matter, only who can edge out the biggest percentage in each county. Honestly disgusting to see a system like this still in place in 2021
It’s the best system
@@Cal_lum A system where politicians simply don't need to care about all the counties that are either firmly voting for them or against them is broken. Politicians who want to get elected will only care for swing counties, making promises and campaign hard there. Every vote needs to count equally, it should not matter if you are in a swing county or not. The british system has its strengths as well, but it needs at least a new component. For comparison you could for example look at the german system which combines majority votes with county representation.
@@Cal_lum it litterally isn't. Tons of other western countries have much better systems that represent the people and percentage vote better
FPTP gives SNP a massive advantage though, they get almost all the Scottish MPs despite usually getting about half the vote
@@Cal_lum The best system for a minority to rule over a majority, the best system to keep a corrupt government in power, the best system for a time limited party dictatorship. It delivers worse living conditions, worse welfare, worse economy, worse local representation than federal systems like Germany or con-federal systems like Switzerland.
At the time of Union in 1707, Scotland had a fifth of the population of England. After 300 years of "benefitting from this glorious union" it's a tenth. 2001 Scottish population was lower than 1951. Some unionists need to defend that somehow. We struck oil, our population fell, we literally got poorer. Welcome to the UK. Scotland/England border was much more scary pre Covid. Look at how the Australian states could close borders.
Out of the 5 million people who live in Scotland, according to the Economist only 130,000 citizens pay positive tax. This basically means they pay more tax than get from using Government services, such as education, NHS, libraries, etc. So 130,000 Scots in the black. 4.85 000000 Scots in the red. These statistics show immediately after Scottish Independence they will be financially in the red, even when taking oil, fishing, agriculture, industries into equation. Do not take my word for it ,check the statistics Scotland.
No that's actually normal the riches people pay more taxes and fund Government services it's like that in most countries
@@alexv1872 if you are correct most Countries are in the red. Your logic is flawed.
@@skylongskylong1982 most people get back more from the government then they pay that doesn't that country is in the red since the richer people pay more taxes they support the majority of the population works like that everywhere
Everyone in the UK pays 20% tax on almost everything they buy, I would love to know how almost the entire population of Scotland manages to get away with not paying it. Your facts are at best misguided and at worst an outright lie.
I'm not sure if Scotland is running a fiscal deficit, to be honest in the current setup it's rather unclear. The only things we can say for certain is that: a) the Scottish Government's spending falls within its budget; b) It spends money based on taxes it rasies directly (through Revenue Scotland) and based on the block grant (which is made up of taxes raised in Scotland but collected by HRMC, and uses a complex formula to figure this out, apportioning them between the UK Gov and Scot Gov); c) And that the Scottish Government is forced to spend within its budget because it does not have borrowing powers (unlike the UK Government); So, based on those you could argue that the Scottish Government runs a very fiscally sound budget, spending within its means. An example of this complexity problem is Corporation Tax raised from companies in Scotland is just lumped in with Corporation Tax raised in the rest of the UK. VAT was like that but I believe there is now work on going to make it clearer how much VAT is raised from Scotland and report on that by HMRC. The other big thing to consider is the UK Government spends a lot of money on things that an Independent Scotland might not spend money on, or an independent Scotland might prioritise differently. An example of this is the nuclear detterent, which the current Scottish Government has indicated they would not have, and that could potentially save a lot of money. So, bottom line is, I don't think it's as simple as saying "Scotland runs a deficit, therefor an independent Scotland would also run a defifict", because that's simply too much of a oversimplification.
Thank you!
An argument I oftentimes have with unionists goes: Unionists: Scotland runs at a deficit! We cant afford to divorce from the UK Me: Well Scotland has no borrowing powers and is legally required to present a balanced budget, so it literally cannot run a deficit. So how can we "not afford it" if we've been affording it this whole time? Unionists: ummmmm well you lost get over it
Can Spain veto scoland's application to join EU?
@@nitishlamba8451 they can any country in eu can I believe, but Spain said they would only do that if the referendum was illegal.
@@nitishlamba8451 they can say no, but this is probably less like than you think, if they said no they would upset bigger nations like France and Germany and they might not be willing to take that gamble
"how bad could it be" - *proceeds to show actual footage and pictures of empty shelves and gridlock in Kent as if it never happened IRL*
I just recalled the story about 2000 soldiers having to fill in for 100,000 (I believe?) truck drivers to deliver food to stores, how bad could it be?
@@PKM1010 I like how the conservative answer to basically anything is: "Don't worry, the army can handle this." And fair enough the UK has such a large and diverse military that they actually CAN do a lot (they also filled in for the security contractor at the Olympics for example). I'm just waiting for the day they propose the army fixing income inequality and lacking social security...
@@QemeH How many refrigerated trucks does the UK army have?
Peak irony :)
@@QemeH "I'm just waiting for the day they propose the army fixing income inequality and lacking social security..." Hmm sounds like communism to me, and I'm from an ex-soviet state...
"Devolution isn't an option" - uses Boris Johnson as proof. Pretending that the Tories represent all unionists is unfair and inaccurate. The Tories were never in favour of devolution unless their arms were twisted: it was Labour who granted Scotland its devolved powers, and Corbyn was a vocal supporter of Irish republicanism and of Scottish self-determination within the UK.
Seeing as it's likely labour won't see a chance to be a goverment in the next twenty years the assumption that it's all in the tories hands isn't a bad one.
argument against(?) : people that think Brexit would be the only way forward for the UK now oppose scotland indipendence... to me they look very similar, one was carried out, why shoudn't also the other. (p.s. i live in europe and I may have a grudge against the UK and vested interest in having scotland join the EU)
I voted no in 2014 but have since changed my mind. I've come to the realisation that England is a conservative country and Scotland just isn't. Conservatism doesn't represent me as a person at all either. Then there's brexit. A main pillar of the argument to vote no was that it was the only way to remain in Europe. And don't tell me the Tories didn't already know that the brexit vote was in the wings. I just won't have that. Thirdly, why in the hell would any country want to be governed by a government of another country? And any way you swing it, that's exactly what's happening, regardless of devolution. It's just mathematical. England has 10 time the amount of people; who it votes for is they government that will sit. Enough.
But the SNP does represent you? So presumably you're extremely authoritarian and you believe people should be able to be arrested for "offensive" language they use in their own home?
@@stickman6217 they more closely represent me than do the conservatives. But of course nuance doesn't exist in online debates.
@@rodgerq hang on so you genuinely believe people should be arrested for that?...
@@stickman6217 read my comment again. It's not even between the lines what I'm saying.
@@stickman6217 I would suggest though, maybe read the bill or at least the parts of it pertaining to the issue on which you speak. Understand the position of the government and how high for prosecution the bar is, again pertaining to that specific issue.
Many countries have left the British empire and not one single country has wanted to rejoin the UK. Some of these countries have done economically very well (US, Canada, Australia) and some have done really badly economically (most of Africa). However none of them have even debated rejoining the UK. In must be better to leave, otherwise why wouldn't all those countries be begging to rejoin the UK.
Malta wanted to be Annexed by the UK in the 1950s and 60s, the UK refused.
@@jamiegray6931 That was when Malta was part of the empire and was worried they would collapse when the empire was ended. Ask any Maltese person now and see how many of them want to be part of the UK.
@@niallkinsella2687 I'm just correcting the history, not expressing a political opinion
@@jamiegray6931 And I wanted to ensure the historical context was appreciated.
@@niallkinsella2687 fair enough, i wonder if there are any people that would like to join the UK, small islands and the like and if there are other places that want to join larger countries.
There’s is of course no reason why Scotland can’t be independent. There would be a fair deal of short to medium term pain, but long term it’s viable. The only thing I’d say is that, no matter how independent Scotland gets, it will still be attached to the same land mass as a much bigger neighbour, one that would no longer have even a passing interest in Scotland’s welfare. This is why Sturgeon wants the EU as a bulwark I think. But it can work.
England has no interest in Scotland's welfare now. Nor has it for as long as history has been written.
@@lindabastable3021The £10 billon that enabled Scotland to furlough most of it’s workforce came from Union coffers. This is an empirical fact that doesn’t care about what are in effect, your ‘feelings’.
@@peterpanse7472 And how did the money get into the coffers in the first place? Scots are very tired of English who appear to have no grasp whatsoever of the cost to Scotland of being part of the disUnited Kingdom. It costs us more annually than it cost the disUnited Kingdom annually to be part of the EU. The English voted p overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Guess what? The Scots are going to vote overwhelmingly to leave the disUnited Kingdom.
@@lindabastable3021 Presumably then you do have a grasp of what is costs Scotland to be part of the UK. Please cite evidence that proves Scotland is in deficit because of its Union membership.
@@peterpanse7472 The lack of a fund generated by decades of oil and gas drilling. Norway found oil and gas around the same time as Scotland, it has a huge fund built up to ensure the wellbeing to its citizens. Scotland doesn't. The difference is that money was squandered by Westminster.
4.17 "when the Scottish assembly was formed." It is not an assembly, it is a Pariament and always has been. Also, even without the Greens, the SNP has 7 more seats than the Tories, Labour and the LibDems put together, so already had a majority.
You're confusing plurality vs majority.
I’m pro-independence, and actually excited to see the unionist video. Nobody who’s big in politics makes a solid case for the Union much, they lie about us being too small, attack Nicola sturgeon and shout about Peter Murrel.
"being too small" is not an argument... Luxembourg is a fully independent nation, as is Lichtenstein, Andorra, San Marino and Monaco. Those 5 nations put together have less population and land mass than Scotland and thats not even counting the water rights.
@@myonline1985 Comparisons have made between Scotland and Denmark, which seems to be doing okay.
@@fburton8 yeah, scotland has a million less pop and denmark has about half the land area and while Scotland has been a partner of England for the past 300 years (since act of union in 1707) Denmark has been an independent nation for 1200 years (bar a few nilly willy Swedish and German occupations). So again, the "too small" argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Independence would restrict opportunities for Scottish people who personally interact with the rest of the UK substantially - those who trade across the border, seek jobs across it, visit family ect. Even if ind. Scot. and the rest of the UK were both in the EU, they would BE barriers regarding certain public job opportunities and the hassle of dealing in two currencies. In foreign policy terms the UK is a country that can extract concessions, corral allies, ect with its (albeit very limited) brute political power. Scotland would lose that instantly. Scotland's foreign policy would have to operate within the consensus of foreign countries it was dealing with and would have to conform more readily to external foreign policy concerns. Even if ind. Scot. was a part of the EU their foreign policy stances would be less important then more powerful countries like The Netherlands. How would Scotland balance outrage of unpopular practises in countries that it has relations with? Scotland benefits from the business and financial environment of the UK. The rest of UK is Scotland's biggest trading partner which Scottish independence would harm. An independent Scotland would have to erect and enforce a border with the rest of the UK which would be costly to plan and build, costly to maintain and with a continuous costly depressant to trade with what would its biggest trading partner. Scotland enjoys a far higher public spending to tax intake ratio due to the Barnett formula, the end of which would force Scotland to raise taxes to maintain spending and/or cutting spending. Also independent Scotland would have to lower its deficit spending quite a bit to 3% (at least 19% according to the IFS) if it wanted to join the EU, which again would make Scotland less rich than it is in the UK. Scotland benefits from the business and financial environment of the UK. The rest of UK is Scotland's biggest trading partner which Scottish independence would harm.
@@B1_66ER Interesting points. I have some questions though. 1) Your point on barriers. Yes there would be barriers that would come into place unless Scotland remains outside the single market. They would be in a good position to continue as always though given the right agreements which without EU bureaucracy are quite doable, even the currency could be the same and regulated out of London as it is entirely up to the Scots. If Scotland were to join the single market then they would be subject to the same rules and regulations regarding trading with the UK as the rest of the EU however in turn they would have access to all trading partners of the EU once more, and free access to the jobs market if need be (and vice versa). 2) You mention foreign policy but you say Scotland would have only little say in foreign affairs, which is more than they have now, while also pre-empting the EU into the mix and how they would be "subservient" to the larger entities in the EU, much like they are right now. So what is your argument exactly? A little better alone, or subservient to a far larger entity than now on foreign policy and somehow it is an argument against which I don't understand so please enlighten me. 3)As for taxes, that really is up to the Scots to find out. Having high taxes isn't a net negative nor is having low taxes a net positive. It all depends on what you get for your money and as long as the money stays in Scotland I don't see how it would make Scotland poorer.
Scottish brand is very good in the world. Goodwill, marketing,, tourism, likebility factor etc. Flag, kilt, highlands.
Who owns the whisky, salmon and oil industries ? Where do the profits go ?
@@jintsfan Where do the taxes go?
Most importantly from a global and legal aspect your not lEnglish
@@markwilkie3677 They go to the UK Exchequer. Flowing back from the UK Exchequer to Scotland is the equivalent of that AND a further £15BN to fill the gap in taxes raised and spending made.
@@jintsfan Every penny of our taxes go to Westminster. The last figures show 65billion handed over, and 32billion returned via barnet .Then we are handed 15billion debt for Westminster's spending on UK priorities on our behalf, Trident weapons etc. Rather than receive a population share of our own resources, we will have the lot. Including the designated UK extra-regio areas which are in our waters and created to rob us blind. Scotland contains over half of UK land and maritime territory and its our turn to `take back control`.
As an Irish guy, and EU citizen, I would LOVE to see our Celtic cousin, and culturally and linguistically closer neighbour of Scotland become independent and rejoin the EU. An Irish/Scottish free trade bloc within the EU, similar to the Nordic countries could be beneficial for both nations.
If Scotland became independent I would instantly move from England (London) to Scotland. As a European I am tired of seeing my taxes go to lunatics in Westminster.
This is funny because europe makes westminster pook amazing. The EU is cumbersome, overly beaurcratic and never makes any change outside of the environment
Im english and fully respect the desire to get away from tory rule. I wish the South west could go independent
Eh? We vote Tory down here. I bet you're a Bristol/City lefty or someone who moved. Labour etc don't understand what life is like outside of the city/urban areas. We don't want them in.
@@d283jdsk2 nah. Not from Bristol and defo not a lefty. Totally believe in capitalism and a free market just can't stand all the corruption and low morals of our politics
Scotland is not ruled by the Tories,it’s ruled by a hypocritical ego nasty witch and her minions plus a pseudo husband.The SNP is riddled with people who commit financial fraud against it’s people. The truth is never told because of two injunctions on the press. So get real.
@@jamesmertins1618 most of the import laws and funding in Scotland is under direct control of the uk government, which at present is the tory party. So you are wrong. Just because you dont like someone or a peoples doesn't mean you are right, ad hominem is not an argument. If there are injunctions for the press please provide evidence else your argument is moot
Without an English devolved parliament English matters have no choice but to interfere with the over nations
Exactly why does it have to be in or out, if all countires had fully devolved powers and still shared open boarders and trade policies we would be better off
@@mattf9156 open borders are among the reasons why we're stuck in the first place.
@@The_Phoenix_Saga When were there ever open borders in the UK? Never joined Schengen.
@@neodym5809 They're talking about the borders between the UK constituent countries, not EU member states, I think.
@@The_Phoenix_Saga, the UK never joined Schengen, you statement is in fact false.
I am 100% pro Scottish independence, everyone I know is too. We don't even have a chance in Westminster as you said. It is very england focused and that is the thing that annoys me the most. Remember we fought back against the romans multiple times, we are more than capable of defending ourselves and having our own thriving and stable economy I think. We only joined England in 1707 because we were in debt, now 314 years later it is very different. When people ask my nationality I dont say I'm brittish because I'm not I'm Scottish. No-one can change my mind or well most of Scotlands minds really. We are having Indyref2 and becoming independent since we now have the majority with the deal between the Greens and SNP. Just you wait. Also love your videos man very interesting 😊❤🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴
Us Scottish will see a vast improvement within 1 year of being independent 🏴🏴🏴✊.
Independence will be though but it’s worth it
My ancestry is Norse/Scottish and Irish. Maybe we should form a new bloc.
I think Scotland can survive independently especially if they join the EU, but England Scotland border will be a mess
Yes. But Scotland would have an ally in The Whole of the Rest of Europe! (including Ireland) Noises from the EU are almost goading Scotland to become independent right now. Just to stick it to the treacherous English. Open arms await an independent Scotland in the EU.
Scotland could join the common travel area?
Nope there will be a common travel area like Ireland.
The border does not have to be "a mess". There are borders all over the place and they work just fine. Scotland would gain one border and lose 27.
@@thefastandthedead1769 And how would goods get to Scotland from the eu? Either going through England (border checks) or spending more money on longer new shipping routes. Nearly 70 % of Scottish trade stays within the eu. It would be a mess.
Who needs a British Union when you can have an European Union that does not trample on you?
@Mick&Rorty that was mostly Greece's fault for lying about its economy, and the goals required to adopt the Euro.
@Mick&Rorty It is entirely the Greek Governments fault for lying about their economy. Had they told the truth they wouldn't have been allowed in. Furthermore the UK also agreed to it at the time.
Is it mind blowing having England and northern Ireland in the same currency?
Are you joking, right? You complete farcical moron; the UK has devolved powers out; the EU has centralised it.
@@ffuzzo No because we have currency transfers and pooled debt, one of which the EU doesn't have and the other prohibited by A125 TFEU.
Nobody should choose for Scottland independence but Scotts themselves.
We already voted, in 2014, and we voted No. And I"ll vote No again.
@@susannamarker2582 dream on
@@Ewan-xw3er I wasn't dreaming in 2014. The EU is not about independence. Why is the SNP so in love with the EU ? They're euro-federalists, into limited sovereignty. That is not independence.
@@susannamarker2582Independence support is undeniably rising, and you keep using the same crap arguments by making up that eu members are not sovereign states
@@Ewan-xw3er They're not, they're in the EU. The EU is run on an old german foreign policy model called limited sovereignty.
"By the ends of this setting", thanks, that is very clear and informative
Never heard anyone use the "how bad could it be" argument lol, it's much more "how bad it is"
Scotland can’t ‘leave Britain’. Britain is an island, a geographical land mass. Scotland can however leave the United Kingdom.
You must be fun in parties
Ugh everyone knows and understands this term to refer to the UK, it’s even on its Wikipedia page. Language changes get over it.
No, *Great* Britain is the Island. Britain is still an acceptable way of referring to the whole of the UK.
Yeah, pro EU people struggle with that type of difference.
@@martinplayz8645 except for NI
LOL Borris trying for a Trumpian-level power move patting Nicola on the back. I think the words being said there were clearly "move it or lose it!" 7:26
If you don't trust someone, you're probably keenly aware that a pat on the back is four 90-degree turns away from a stab in the back. Three to get from flat to gripping the knife, and one more to point it at your back.
Not from Britain, but the Scots best go for it and see what happens. Best of luck y'all!
I see the Republic of Ireland as the perfect example why Scottish independence can be a success. Ireland was in much worse conditions than Scotland when it left the Uk, but is now wealthier per capita than the UK.
We were also expected to mistreat religions other than Catholicism, but now we're just a very fast growing atheist population. Hope Scotland get independence then northern Ireland and then we all join the Schengen area. Tá fáilte romhat!
Achieved entirely by running an illegal tax haven that rips off Ireland's trade partners and third world countries. Ireland's GDP figures are also grossly overinflated by the phantom economic activity of US multinationals who use Ireland for profit shifting purposes, this in turn masks GDP to debt ratio of what is now probably around 120% when the covid bill is added. Ireland is an example to nobody, it is a thief, nothing else.
*By helping massive corporations avoid tax to all Europe and depriving all EU nations of income as a result. Would left-leaning Scotland do that?
Neatly overlooking the six or seven decades when it suffered horribly from separation. Ireland's success is due to one thing: it gave up it;s independence again, it just swapped Brussels for London, and kids itself that it is "independent". Even though Ireland doersn;t control it's own currency or laws and has a tiny handful of MEP's compared to big countries like France or Germany. Ireland is essentially a European province, they just won;t admit it to themselves. Found that out when the European Commission activated an emergency clause to block vaccine exports without even bothering to inform, let alone consult the Irish government. Only backed down when it caused a shitstorm in the various national governments.
Think gdp figures in Ireland are misleading. Billions come through multi nationals that Ireland dosn't actually see that much of. Yes it's massively improved but not as much as it looks on paper.
Never met a nationalist that that has asked 'How bad can it be' more like, 'how bad is it going to be under more Tory cuts?' The answer: Really fucking bad.
No such thing as cuts. The reality is the UK is a low taxation economy and people like you will soon be crying if your tax was raised. Income tax needs to be at least 30% to 50% at £60K with no exceptions. Taxation is way too low in UK
Ahh we can never escape the English patronising Scotland. "They could have a good go at it". Thanks.
Stop talking rubbish.
Well you could can't you?
The Classic " TAKE BACK CONTROL" but only if we can hold Scotland's hand.....
Scotland could also charge England loads to store a specific something in the near future - guess what?
they should charge them for storing all them subs that are rusting away in fife (and not just normal subs)or send them back down the border bet they wouldnt be happy with them sitting in there ports!!
6:40 Scotland doesn't have an army in the same way that England doesn't have an army so in my opinion that's a bit of a moot point - something would have to be worked out. Indeed, it would be an interesting area of discussion post independence when you consider the level of manufacture (BAE Systems on the Clyde), strategic importance (nukes, anyone?) and testing ranges in the Western Isles. The British armed forces has a lot to lose were Scotland to gain independence.
Scotland keeping the nukes would be hilarious, as they are based in Scotland. Dont need much army if you can answer with a nuclear strike.
The Highlanders are amongst the most feared and respected. If I remember correctly they wear kilts.
Around 10,000 members of the British Army are Scots and around 7.5% of the MoD are too, the idea we couldnt defend ourselves is utter fearmongering considering nobody is gonna even try to in the modern day.
@@jedaye47 those soldiers won’t just leave the UK forces and join Scotland’s forces should independence happen.
@@maxdavis7722 I know a significant portion of service personnel who certainly would
When’s the United Ireland pin coming? 😜
Reunited* Ireland 🇮🇪
Soon. Cannot wait for that day to come🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪 Erin Go Bragh
@@imastaycool calm down kid and find something else to get angry at. Ireland was not united in language or culture before england arrived. There were many languages, modern Gaelic was only invented in the 1890s. Culturally it was divided. Parts had viking influence, ulster has often part of shared kindgoms with parts of scotland. (The Scotii tribe originally came from ireland even) Etc.
@A F Kingdom of Ireland 11th century
@@godlovesyou1995 it honestly demonstrates how utterly DIM you people are... For most of recorded Irish history, Irish was the dominant language of the Ireland and it was even taken to other regions such as Scotland and the Isle of Man where Middle Irish thus created today's Scottish Gaelic and Manx... For example, Ogham was a basic form dating back to the 4th century and then Latin based written Irish since the 5th century, Irish is renowned as the oldest vernacular language in West of Europe. Can't you people do basic research or bother to educate yourselves before commenting publicly.
England is a conservative country, Scotland is more left leaning politically. That’s why there’s such a divergence
People should remember when statements like ‘ it’s the will of the Scottish people’ or ‘ Scotland wants independence etc etc, that it’s not the will of all Scots. Denial seems to rear its head at every oppertunity if negativity is shown towards the SNP or its failures. Too many just want to ignore that there are Scots who voted SNP but do not want to go back into Europe, or just didn’t want indie full stop. A post the other day said more than 50 percent of voters in the 2014 referendum voted for indie !!?? Now that’s what I call denial of what really happened. There are Scots who didn’t vote in the recent election or the 2014 referendum, that may vote if another chance at indie comes around. Polls are not accurate and only give a rough guide as to the ‘mood’ of those polled at that time. When polls were in favour of indie, the fanboys were lighting up the forums with their perceived ideas of how an indie Scotland would progress or end up. It’s gone rather quiet since the polls are showing a decline in support now. The forums are full of, what might happen, what may happen, they could do this, they could do that and on and on getting nowhere but fuelling fantasies in peoples heads. The SNP are avoiding telling Scots the implications of an indie Scotland going into Europe. They avoid talking about currency, borders, security, finances etc etc etc. This avoidence seems to be a trait of the SNP given that six members of the party resigned, citing not being given the information to do their job properly. The worrying fact that one of those resigning was the Finance Officer citing the same reason should ring alarm bells as to what is going on within the party. What are they hiding from their own members ? And the voters ? Supporters contribution money that cannot be accounted for. £180 million given by the UK to help the fishermen, fisheries, hauliers and businesses during the brexit transition period, that cannot be fully accounted for. I’m not against any country going for indie, but can you really have confidence in the SNP considering how it’s being run and in its present form ? It’s too much a family and friends affair enclosed in a ring of secrecy towards its own workers, the voters and the Scottish people. The party needs a clean out and I can see why Alex Salmond came back on the scene, hoping to regain support for him and his party, after watching the SNP flounder from one failure to another. People are losing faith in Sturgeon and the way the party is being run surrounded in secrecy, and will see Alba as a better means to an end. Before any referendum takes place, Scots should be told the full facts and implications of Independence on their lives. They should be told what plans the SNP have drawn up regarding going back into Europe and its consequences on each and every Scot, present and future generations. Not wild fantasy guessing, but hard facts, good or bad. But given the workings of the SNP are shrouded in secrecy in every department, even among their own workers. And given their recent record of not being able to account for money from their supporters or the UK gov prompting a police enquiry. What chance the public are going to be told the full implications of indie and re joining Europe ? Absolutely none from this lot.
Characterising the third reason as 'how bad can it be' grossly undersells the points that are raised. Surely it would be fairer characterised as Scotland's potential to operate as an independent country and then divulge into renewables capacity, access to higher education, etc? Pitching it as 'how bad can it be' makes it sound like a wild punt rather than something that has genuine logic and sound reasoning behind it (which clearly renewable energy resources and a well educated population are). I also think the first point could be expanded beyond the England-centric arguement to focus on the increasingly opposite directions of travel of English and Scottish politics, i.e. the SNP and greens are getting more of the voter share than ever as are the Tories in England. SNP/greens offer very different politics to the Tories so in some ways it's only natural where you reach a point where there is a natural separation.
Can Spain veto scoland's application to join EU
can i ask a question, so why would scottland want to join the eu? england did more trade with the eu then scottland, england buys i think its like 65% of your goods then i think the rest of the union takes it up just over 70% so why would scottland want to leave its biggest trade partner to join the EU whats going to make it harder to trade with said trade partner? then its also the fact that the EU doesnt have a barnet formula for you to run all your money tree schemes ect
@@nitishlamba8451 they can but its hard to say if they will, some spanish politicians said their against it. But a indy scottland wont even be applicable for the standard of debt per capita their have
@@lilbrit1019 40% of the goods sold to England was used as parts for items sold to the EU and the other 25% stayed in England. Are you proposing England stops producing items for the EU? It's biggest trading partner? Where will England get the goods if not from Scotland or the EU? Do you understand how Westminster controls the powers over foreign policy, mod, etc? The powers which attract investment. So the 60% figure you use comes under a Westminster government, for the figure you use to be true, you are assuming an independent Scotland olwould copy Westminster foreign and spending policies, why? If Scotland was to rejoin it would be 10 years at least, how do you know what UK and EU trading arrangements will be in 10 years, you're assuming everything stays exactly as is. Quite naive politically clearly
@@lilbrit1019 Because 2 out of every 3 people voted for it in the 2016 referendum. For sure an indy Scotland would create more challenges with trade with England and like you say, it is the largest export market for Scotland. That would be a cost/negative of indy. Change doesn't come from free. I do wish the pro-indy parties would be more frank about this, but it would also be seen as a political own goal. If the EU ref had only been about trade then it would have been a no-brainer to stay in, but voters cared more about other issues. Brexit was also sold as a sort of all gain no downsides things, which imo was criminal. At least with indy there is a 500page white paper that details what an indy scotland might actually look like. Yes Scotland runs a fiscal deficit. This is because it spends more money on public services. There's two simple solutions to that problem. Either you raise more money through taxation or you spend less on public services. It's not a difficult problem to address. It's the same choice every independent country has to make.
It’ll be a sad day to see the UK collapse. If Scotland leaves, Irish reunification becomes far more likely, Welsh nationalism gets a hefty boost. However, it’s clear Westminster doesn’t believe in treating its constituent peoples fairly or seriously. For the Scots to truly have their own say in their future, independence is likely the only path forward.
No it's not sad to see the collapse 😁☘
You people keep saying this, "For the Scots to truly have their own say in their future, independence is likely the only path forward". What about the other 50% of people who voted against indyref? No, you don't care about Scottish people. You just want to see the UK falling apart.
@@jacobmacaree3063 because we care about the whole union, not just 1 group of people unlike you
@@jacobmacaree3063 check what the latest polls say....unicorn!
@Greg Thompson And it's not a emphatic choice between the UK or republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland can be it's own independent country.
I imagine an independent Scotland could introduce compulsory National Service, in either the Royal Scots Army, the Royal Scots Navy, the Royal Scots Air Force or the emergency services. An independent Scotland would also need to focus greatly on the naval side of things, however with Lossiemouth, Kinloss, Leuchars etc. could also have a sizeable air force (the Poseidons would be a must to defend the seas). Scotland could even follow a Swiss/Irish style policy of neutrality, once the Royal Navy had relocated from Faslane.
It just makes no sense for Scotland to tolerate being ruled from Conservative England. Independence is as inevitable as the reunification of Ireland.
So they are ruled from Brussels instead lol.
You forgot about taking back control of our Scottish borders, arranging our own Scottish trade deals, and what about Scottish sovereignty? More importantly, what is the use of a Scottish government, if the Queen can stop any Scottish bill?
I am right there with you, Scotland needs independence.
None of those are arguments, they're just the results. What you're really saying right now is: ''you forgot about having independent borders, arranging our trade independently and what about independence? More importantly what's the use of having Scottish politicians if we're not independent?'' Like I get that this might be the main appeal for a lot of people but those still aren't actually arguments. The reason why they spent that much time discussing the third point is that the main argument both for and against independence is whether or not you call pull it off.
Dump the Queen! Scotland should have its own Àrd Rìgh / Àrd Bhanrigh - High King/Queen, meaning a president like France and some other European countries have. You could limit the term to a single seven-year term, but then call the office: "Office of the High King/Queen of Scotland", just to piss off the English!
Um James Stuart the first of england and 6th of scotland. The king of scotland became king of england. Shes the queen of scotland too. She has veto rights on all law too cause we live in a monarchy, its not like she ever uses it.
The Queen would still be the Queen. And if you joined the EU as an extremely small nation, you wouldn't have any real sovereignty anyway when it came to trade deals, the border, and just about any other important thing. It's not like Scotland is Germany, or France. Every other EU "member state" is an also-ran compared to that terrific/terrible twosome.
I would hate the weather, but if Scotland goes independent I will relocate north.
Bring a mac 🤣🤣🤣
Move to North East Scotland then, we're sheileded by the caringorms, sunniest bit of Scotland
Plenty of water for drinking and growing crops, feeding animals. England is not making enough attempts at building water storage facilities, the weather might at times be better(Drier), but have no real vision for the future. Energy comes is also a problem, England going for nuclear, more costly, pollution and expensive to close it down at end of life, Scotland has a far more caring for its population, and achievements, spends within its boundaries, considering not being able to use its own resources, more out going> The Scottish Government listens to its people, is concerned about their health and education, it is a pity that Scotland is being restricted from the country it could and should be!!
@@CNERail haha yes but Aberdeen is the least sunny city in Britain I love being shrouded in cloud while a few Kms inland it’s summer
@@robertgalloway3771 haha Cus England’s run by a bunch of pampered private school boys who’s only wish it to get richer
Yes🏴 Scotland Independence🏴🏴
Running a deficit folowing independence will not be a problem, all countries do this when needed. It is fine as long as it doesn’t lead to inflation which is unlikely as Scotland will need to reach full employment before this happens. And there’s a strong argument that Sotland won’t need to pay England much of the UK debt too.
Wonder if Scotland could survive on its own? Awright, just study the case of Estonia once the Soviet Union broke apart then 🤘
They got PETROL paid in dollars not pound
Boris is turning England into a shithole, best Scotland breaks away before it gets dragged down with it. Globally the UK government are liars and cant be trusted. Scotland doesnt need that reputation.
So many countries survived "on their own" after leaving British rule. Estonia? How about Singapore which got kicked out of the Malaysian Federation then went from strength to strength? But the more you delay the moment, the harder it becomes; you risk becoming like one of those French territories that are happy to live with 30-35% unemployment and no economy to speak of because the Motherland provides them all kinds of benefits.
@@scotchperson Estonia "was" annexed. Is it still? Naw, Estonia is a free wee independent nation, member of both EU and NATO and the cherry on top of the cake is that Estonia is the most digitalised society on earth. So yeah, in your statements you're right for both countries mentioned. Yet the act of union 1707 was the reason both joined together, still, today it becomes less and less popular in Scotland due to Scots supporting independence more than ever. Let's see what the future brings ✌️
Not every post-Soviet nation has done as well as Estonia. And Scotland's situation is FAR from comparable to a post-Soviet state.
I think Scotland would be okay. Yes as you say things may start off bad but the only way is up. Don't necessarily need an army, Iceland don't have one. Being part of an island nation, the main threat would be more from the south (England) but that means we could get a second Braveheart movie. The energy and education facts are very interesting to hear and I am sure their tourism would also thrive to help bolster their economy. Should they be able to rejoin the EU that would help them massively as well to rejoin the markey and get freedom of movement again
The interesting ropics are also what would happen to the national debt, but like... just look at how Czechoslovakia did it for example, or debating over the currency situation where you can look at Ireland, both showed it worked and was not an issue. Currency: My Idea The banks currently issuing currency in Scotland should be regulated by the new independent government, they already have more than £5B in assets to back their currency. They could just erase the Sterling off their notes when it becomes an independent currency. Like the irish Banc Ceannais na hÉireann did, the government could peg the new Scottish Pound at a 1:1 rate to the pound, coins could be issued in the current dimensions but with a different design, preferably created as part of a competition. The state's assets: Czechoslovakia's approach but instead fit for Scotland and the UK -Infrastructure, immovable assets are allocated to the successive state -Movable property (Railway vehicles, Military equipment) is allocated to the successive states at a rate according to their population, in this case the UK:Scotland ratio would be 11.37:1 As to the national debt, i am not sure how much the central government has given to scotland's over the years, but that amount would be the absolute maximum amount of debt that scotland should recieve.
@@that1niceguy246 Joining the EU as an independent Scotland would most likely mean converting to Euro as the currency. That comes with its own set of pros and cons.
And to be fair, there are a few scottish-based regiments in the army - I suspect they'd side with their country in the event of independence and, if Scotland does decide to have an army, join that. But the only real threat on a military front in Europe, for now, is Russia, and frankly, if the Russians decide to invade, even totally conscripting every man, woman and child into the army wouldn't be enough to halt them. And Russia isn't equipped to geopolitically set up to invade Scotland.
Ok don't start, not only should we worry about inherited debt from leaving the union but the SNP government that will inevitably have full control over the country, Nicola's and the SNP's policy would bankrupt Scotland almost immediately and kill any chance of a successful economic development, unless of course we fancy 50,60,70% tax rates
Let's go for it, being run by the Norweigians would be better than the Tories! 😆😆🤣🤣
Scotland and Ireland should be free of UK, they will be better off with the EU.
“UK politics is becoming too focused on England” 😂 becoming? Sure, in the same way that humans have recently become particularly obsessed with breathing.
I mean what do you expect? England as 56 million people While Scotland has 5
@@izimations I expect the Scottish people to be able to determine their own fate without being hopelessly tied to a political system that doesn’t respect or represent them.
@@wordsmith451 They didn't have a problem when the Labour party was in power and most of the cabinet consisted of Scots.
@@justonecornetto80 source? Or further clarification?
@marek nitka if using one emoji is enough to trigger you, I’m surprised you can handle the internet at all. What’s truly cringe is focusing on that instead of the substance of my statement.
For me, the main reason for Independence is that I am terrified of Boris Johnston and his politics. England's lurch toward right-wing populism, and BoJo's hatred and contempt of Scotland is antithetical to everything I stand for. And right now I can't see the Tories ever losing power.
I'm also terrified of Bojo and his cronies and while I don't agree with Nicola and her vision for Scotland she is a much better politician than Bojo (what ever that means lol!). However, leaders change like the winds neither Boris nor Nicola are forever and on a decision that will affect generations to come I think a personal like or dislike of a leader isn't the best reasoning when we next get a vote. You may have other reasons for wanting an independent which is fair enough! Personally I would rather see Scotland's politicians engage more with the running of the UK at Westminster (and for that part for them to be listened too!)
The primary reason is simply it is their choice, not ours.
Hi
Scotland is just getting "effed" currently by the UK. If the UK doesn't want to take care of Scotland the EU would be a better alternative.
I'm english and used to be against Scottish independence but I'm now I think let them have a go and see what happens.
Let them go? Did the U.K. ask the EU to “let them go?” There you have the biggest reason for independence. We are not owned by England! The decision to leave the union will be made in Scotland then we will negotiate the divorce. Of course, having seen Westmidden’s inability to negotiate sensibly we’ll most likely be on a winner.
Yes let them go, please God, save us a fortune!
@@joancampbell9157 no divorce agreement just one day part of union next not
You're not entitled to an opinion
@@simonmc78 why
Scotland has a parliament, not an assembly 4:15. They make a point on us finally getting it after 1997, but still misname it as an assembly; with not mention of the political struggle that it took to get and the backhanded deal from 1979 that stopped us getting it sooner that has an impact on todays political outlook from Scotland on how WM treats us, or misname our institutes...
Same for Wales. Our Senedd (which means Senate) is officially a parliament. The name came about when the Welsh Assembly gained parliament status.
I'm an avid supporter against Scottish independence but I can understand why they are miffed. I do want them to get more focus than they do right now but independance for Scotland is a big no from me.
Are you Scottish? If not, then why do you think it matters what you want?
@@neolexiousneolexian6079 are you British? If not, why does your comment matter? Everyone has some say mate and at the least i can voice my opinion.
As an Englishwoman, I wish Scotland would just bugger off and take their whinging and whining elsewhere.