7 Hard Pivots for Games That Shouldn't Have Worked But Did
Game series don't tend to change much over the years, besides some tweaks and graphical upgrades. However, these seven games made huge pivots into vastly different styles and genres. Fortunately, it worked out pretty well for them!
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These games took their series in a totally different direction, but it seemed to pay off...! 🎮👍
I crave food
Megaman zero tone wise and Megaman ZX as a Metroidvania.
A Luke VO introduction? Neigh-...I mean, yay!
Hey this made me think of a list idea. 7 developers went outside their comfort zone and made brilliant games. Horizon Zero Dawn?
Maybe Ellen didn't get fired, but with all these puns you could say she was.... "ON FIRE"! I will show myself out now.
Rad-roaches aren't giant bugs, they're giant features.
My only regret is that I can only press the thumbs up button one time on this.
Hahaha
And they just… work
Lol
This comment wins
Oh my god I love Ellen’s line “Much like someone handcuffed to a roll of coins, things are bound to change” it’s a terrible joke . . . But I love it. What’s wrong with me?
Love those terrible jokes as I just burst out laughing when one of the jokes comes out hahaha
Good one!
Much like someone displayed in a glass coffin . . . remains to be seen ;)
Delivery is everything. Ellen's voice already incites a smile, then pair that with an utterly silly joke and you can't help but giggle.
I got a chuckle out of that too lol
If you think about it, Resident Evil did a double pivot. It pivoted successfully from survival horror to action with RE4, then pivoted back
The Like a Dragon devs made another change, this time a cosmetic one, in response to a tweet. Someone pointed out that if they changed "Misc." to "Etc." in the action menu in the English localization, they could make a "SEGA" initialism from the action names. They apparently approved of the idea and the change was made.
I appreciate that someone else knows initialisms and acronyms are different. :D Although, "SEGA" would be an acronym in this case. :)
@@Artificer1911 Aren't all acronyms initalisms?
I love developers who are just like: fucking why not!??!
@@flaetsbnort No. If you pronounce it by spelling out every letter (WB, SCS, HB, etc.) then it's initialism. If you pronounce it like you would a regular word (SEGA, CAPCOM, etc.) then it's an acronym.
@@bastion8804 I legit didn't know that, so thanks for the info!
"There's so many bugs in these games" Well played, Ellen.
i feel so dumb to not realize what she implied there
We've talked about this. Don't encourage her.
Lol if you think we can stop her powers of punnery, you’ve made a grave mistake 😂
@@scarletarrowgaming5843 Damn right! I say encourage the Hell out of it.
@@scarletarrowgaming5843 I understand that she cannot be stopped. But that doesn't mean we must encourage such behavior. :)
I want Nintendo to make a game called the Legend Of Link and for the entire game you play as Zelda.
I think that is only fair
Zelda: Wand of Gamelon, 😆
@@Ranmus Doesn't exist and we don't like to talk about it.
Press X to be captured by Ganon Press Y to lay there and wait for Link to show up.
I concur!
"Bound to change" is the most torturously laboured, and therefore absolute best, pun I've heard in a long while.
In the Persona series, the life simulation parts the series is known for wasn't added until Persona 3.
Wasn't that also when they dropped the Shin Megami Tensei branding from the original game series Persona spun off from?
yup also the dating sim elements.
@@Raguleader No. The series was still being called Shin Megami Tensei as late as Persona 4. It was really only with the P4 spinoff games that they dropped the SMT brand.
@@AICW Also, the Japanese versions of Persona never used the Shin Megami Tensei label.
@@ironicdivinemandatestan4262 Right, 3 is actually where they added the SMT label. The original was supposed to be part of a series called "Revelations", the only other game I remember hearing of in the series was on Game Boy, but don't remember the name.
REach for the moon engine is a fine addition to the 'tortured backronyms' list
It's so tortured I'm not even sure it can be viewed as a backronym. It's literally just the first two letters of one word, hardly even an acronym. A contrACKtion, perhaps? (I'll show myself out)
It's a REach For the Moon that this acronym makes any sense.
@@dcbandit about as much sense as Hazardous EnVironment suit from Half-life.
But what happens when the moon REaches for the stars?
@@firstlast822 or climbs every mountain higher?
You start to realise you're getting on in years when you can actively remember all these changes at the point they actually happened. Damn I love gaming.
After FF9 I pretty much abandoned the series except for 11 and 14 ARR, I disliked the way they moved it
@@richardhooper9527it's between 9 and 10 for my second favourite ff spot. I played them all apart from the mmorpgs and didn't complete one after 10 until 15. None of them objectively speaking are bad games they just lost the way a little.
As much as I haven't played FF much, I might be tempted to do with IV, V, VI, VII, VIII (please don't judge), IX, X, XII, and Tactics; maybe even Vagrant Story as well.
@@michaelandreipalon359 No need to be defensive about playing VIII, imho it still has the best soundtrack, mini-game, cutscenes and summons in the series. Also love the attribute/skill system.
@@richardhooper9527 I actually rather liked FF15. And no, my name is NOT a reference to it. My name predates the game by 6 years! Yes, I still like the game despite that they stole my name. ...though FF9 is still my favorite. *shrugs* I'm also old enough to remember all these changes and more! Like Toejam & Earl going from weird roguelike to side scrolling platformer.
Do you reckon the whole Sims franchise is also another example? Didnt SimCity players go like "hey can we play as the citizens instead" and The Sims was born? 😂
The original Sims was gonna be just a house/building simulator, but yeah, that idea got added in
@@mistahl5350 Yep. Sid Meier had a house fire and lost everything. He had to shop for new furniture and plan out a new house. He thought that would make an interesting game.
Yes, sims was a big departure from.the original city builder, going from a mass of citizens and an entire city to one family and one house, basically just a down scale. O however want to argue a bigger genre shift that I see no one else talking about, Mortal Kombat Shoalin Monks
@@TJBrumfield If that's not getting inspiration from life i don't know what is lol.
interestingly thats kind of like the story of dungeons and dragons, which was originally chainmail, a massive scale war game. But there were heroes in your army you could level up and equip and someone was like, what if we just ONLY played the heroes? Roleplaying wasnt even really considered at the time
It wasn't really a shift from long-standing expectations since it was the second game, but the shift from Jak and Daxter to Jak II (exploration fantasy world to dark dystopian industry world with guns) was one of the most impressively smooth transitions of my childhood. Going from exploring this big beautiful world to "everything has gone wrong and I'm gonna shoot a robotic wasp while I try to get home" was a really interesting decision and I want to know who came up with that idea
In the original Castlevania games the player would move from room to room fighting monsters eventually confronting a boss at the end of each level. This changed with the release of Symphony of the Night for the Playstation the player could freely explore Dracula's castle but in order to progress would have to use powerups they obtained from defeating the game's bosses. None of these changes seem to have bothered Symphony of the Night any as it became a best selling title for the Playstation and Sega Saturn.
wait til you hear about the sega version that lets you play as maria.
And thus the “vania” in “Metroidvania” style games. Though it’s always bothered me that Castlevania gets a shared credit despite Metroid having a handful of games with that style well before Symphony of the Night.
Technically Simon's Quest was also a free exploration castlevania game too, so...
@@jpfoland01 It's because the term was actually coined specifically to distinguish the free exploration style of Castlevania games from linear Classicvania games. It was exapted to describe the style of game as a whole later.
@@AshenVictor yep. Then games come out with SotN RPG element in Metroid game design, so Metroidvania ended up describing the entire package.
In the background, if you listen REALLY closely, you can hear their phones going off to indicate text messages anytime they say a pun. And you know that the message is from Andy going "Boo!"
From: farrantula ellen just chcking all sorted for stream ths wk? meet on slack 1hr early for biz strat discussion. ps BOOOOOO
I'll update the list of things not to ask OX members about: Mike: Cars Andy: Yakuza: Like a Dragon Jane: How to dispose of a body.
Luke: Dinosaurs and music
Ellen: Kingdom of Alumar
Definitely don't talk to Ellen about Marston's death in RDR.
Ellen loves to talk about her first playthrough of horror survival video games. Never be afraid to ask
Pretty sure the random fighting games belongs to one of them as well.
The Jak & Daxter Series changed quite a bit, too. The first game was a collectathon like Super Mario 64 or Yooka-Laylee and then the series changed dramaticly. The main character learned how to speak and Jak 2 turned into a GTA Style Game with 3D platforming elements.
I'm not sure I'd compare Jak 2 to GTA, but yeah, it was certainly a big difference. However, I think the reason it wasn't included was because it wasn't a long ongoing series that had a sudden change partway through. There was just one game that the sequel was very different. And the third one was pretty similar to the second one, but more vehicle heavy.
And then became a racing game
I'm not so sure it did work. I mean Jak didn't really continue much longer after. I would much prefer a game structured more like the classic 3D collectathon platformers than the bland open cities of the GTA-esque open worlds.
I love how Saints Row pivoted from “generic GTA clone” to absurd sci-fi action comedy.
I think that's why I liked Saints Row 2 so much! You can see both the GTA ridiculous and the kind of off the wall ridiculous they would eventually be known for
@@kassandra7313 Exactly! They had some serious stuff in there and they counter it with shooting poo out of a truck at people!
Thats why I prefer the saints row games to the GTA games. The goofy, nonsensical stuff while committing crimes is fun!
And it's better that way. Though I would not complain if they toned down the super hero stuff if they ever revisit the series, I don't hate 4 or anything, I just think another one like 3 would be a good edition.
It peaked hard with the second game. Everything after that was a mistake, including the DLCs for it.
Super Mario 64... instead of linear levels, weak enemies and princesses in other castles, it allowed you to explore the one castle and travel to different worlds in paintings. On top of this, it was the first 3d mario game and allowed some freedom with how you played the game
But it wasn’t really a hard pivot. They went back to the old format many, many times afterwards.
True, true
I don't think that previous mario games had linear levels and weak enemies.
Also i feel like going from a 2d game to a 3d game isnt that much of a change, mario often had an 'overworld' where you would select a level and then beat it. Almost every mario 64 level was linear and the castle was just the overworld
@@jasem9774 How many times did you go from 1-1 to 1-3 directly in the first game? How many enemies took more than 1 hit to kill?
Not going to lie, that first view of the Capital Wasteland upon exiting Vault 101 is a moment that will stay with me forever.
Amazing, for sure, but for me, the first time I saw Tenpenny Tower off in the distance on max settings... wow, I remember thinking "Well, this is as good as graphics are gonna get!" What a world.
The Dynasty Warriors example is an interesting one, because in Japan there wasn't a genre shift - it's just a different series. In the west, the name value was used to help marketing, but in Japan the first game was called "Sangokumusou", while Dynasty Warriors 2 was called "Shin Sangokumusou", Dynasty Warriors 3 was called "Shin Sangokumusou 2", and so on, with the numbers being out by 1 compared to the west ever since.
That "series" change you say is like saying Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. are two different series.
@@rpgaholic8202or more accurately like saying super mario bros and new super mario bros are different series as the “shin” in the title does just mean “new” (and technically the original mario bros game is an at least somewhat distinct game from the super mario bros series) but yeah no it is just “dynasty warriors” and “new dynasty warriors”
18:05 Jeez, she really cycled through those puns...
Towards the end i was two tired to care
coaster locked right through them
I was geared up to enjoy this video, but these puns derailleured me
Yeah but i think the chain puns were Link's favorite.
Oh, for God's sake guys.........pull your brakes on these puns before it's too late.
“Actually making a Zelda game about Zelda” Not in our lifetime, Phillips ruined that idea for the foreseeable future.
It’s The Legend of Zelda, not necessarily The Legend about Zelda
Aren’t all Zelda games technically about Zelda in some way.
@@intergalactic92 Most but not all. Link's Awakening for example.
I like to imagine that it is the legend of Zelda because the story was told by Zelda and made into a game.
We can play as her in Hyrule Warriors though. Question is then, Magic, Tech, Rapier, or Ninja?
I picked up fallout on a whim in 2008. I saw Bethesda on the title and thought hey they made that oblivion game that I absolutely adore! Didn't regret my decision at all.
What's great is that Andy only started playing the Yakuza games like 2 years ago (I don't remember when just that it was fairly recent and time is a blur rn 😂) and fell in love with them. Pretty sure the karaoke was a huge reason why
For how long did Ellen have to listen to Andy talk about Like a Dragon to avoid being fired? Also, does Saints Row pivoting from GTA-clone to space- and Hell-adventures count?
That's not really a "genre" change as much as it is a thematical change.
The list just said "hard pivots", though. Seems like it fits to me.
Kinda odd, how they thought steering hard into the satire, would take them away from where GTA was going.
I think it went on about the same amount of time as Andy had to put up with Ellen's love of "Kingdom of Amalur..."
yeah.
Like everybody else i thought RE engine meant Resident Evil engine. i have never been this wrong
I was today years old when I learned RE engine didn't mean Resident Evil Engine
In fairness, no one can predict the level of ridiculousness that is the engine's real name.
So what does it mean anyway lmao nvm I just needed to watch the vid to find out
Still, it's a great game engine alongside, say, the FOX Engine, the Unity engine, the Source engine...
@@michaelandreipalon359 but they arent tortured acronyms
I think risk if rain is one of the best examples of this, from 2d to 3D and with a mass upgrade in quality, which was already pretty good in the first version
Ellen's "bound to change" line is pure perfection.
Luke and Ellen are such a wholesome team, which makes it even funnier when we hear them swearing up an absolute storm in a video.😂
We really do need to monitor how often they hang out around the Eurogamer crew ...
who tf is ellen?
Both channels as a whole are usually very family friendly. It makes the rare times they swear or are otherwise rude a lot funnier. I nearly choked on my own tongue laughing when Jane in one livestream quiz game came up with the perfect solution for a hole in your jeans - Paint Your Taint.
No mention of Jak and Daxter going from a collect-a-thon platformer to open world sandbox?
From wholesome brightly coloured platformer to an angsty dystopian shooter with a far darker colour pallet. I swear I got whiplash moving into Jak 2 after playing the original
This was the first game I thought of! Jak1 was bright and fun with goofy enemies, and then in the opening cut scenes of Jak2 Jak gets kidnapped and brutally tortured and experimented on for two years.
The game-play didn't change as much as the theme and setting did.
@@AlmightyPolarBear That is true.
You could count when the mainline Mario games became 3D. They played almost completely differently to their predecessors, yet are critically acclaimed.
Jak and Daxter. The first one was a platformer collecting game like banjo kazooie. In the second one they gave you a gun and said "have at it."
to quote Daxter: "that is the last time I ever, EVER, touch any more stupid precursor crap!"
4th game then became a racer
Hmm... GTA3 comes to mind. Not only did that change up the series but it revolutionized the whole industry. I think an argument can be made for Mario64 as well. That a game pivoted the franchise so hard that it added a whole third dimension to the platforming :)
GTA really should of been on the list. When was the last time you could just steal cars in a GTA game and sell them without a mission to steal a specific car? But yeah, going from top down 2D to 3rd person 3D was big, and the game play totally changed. It set the bar for open world gaming.
Like most of the games in this list GTA 3 wasn't a pivot that shouldn't have worked so much as a natural progression / initial ideas finally realised. That's not to say they weren't a pivot, or that they weren't instrumental to games as we know them today of course. Surely I'm not alone in thinking that most of these design shifts should have worked provided they were well implemented? Although with the annual release of CoD and other, similar games maybe shaking things up is more effort than it's worth. I should say I'm not against this list, I just don't agree they shouldn't have worked for the most part. Hindsight and all that, but back in the day playing GTA 1 or 2 I always wanted it to be 3D.
There are a few missing that could have been in here (GTA, Mario 64) but they seemed to have focussed on a complete shift rather than a natural progression (Zork went from text adventure to first person adventure game) or simple shifts in the players persepctive (GTA, Mario 64), Location (Saints Row), where as some of these completely changed up the play style (Fallout, final fantasy) or something completely different from the normal way of playing (Metroid's control scheme was different from other FPS).
The original GTA games _were_ 3D, they just didn't seem so because of its weird topdown camera and 2D sprites.
Oh, the second half of "Metroidvania"? They thought of just calling the genre "Metroids," but needed a name with more bite.
Good choice, then. That "n" gives you something you can really get your teeth into.
They just needed another life-sucking enemy that's (usually) only featured in end-game bits.
I thought because -vania part because the type of platform backtracking is similar to castlevania
@@Carrr92 Now that's a Whooosh
@@Carrr92 that is infact true. The -vania part does come from Castlevania. Metroid and Castlevania games both had backtracking platforming and/or skills you needed to find/unlock to progress further and unlock new or hidden sections of the game. And so the term 'metroidvania' was born.
Glad to see a series like Dynasty Warriors getting some much needed love and attention.
That "Things are bound to change" pun shut my brain down for a solid minute while I processed it. Freakin' amazing.
The things-are-bound-to-change punchline unmade me. Thanks.
You could almost say the “penny dropped...”
Likewize. Am presently unmade. Send help at earliest convenience.
@@Agamemnon2 I know a good healer who can help you out. Don't worry, they take recognition and respect as payment for their services.
Same.
Last time I was this early, Oxboxtra thought it was gonna be just one session of DnD!
Price including VATs. Now that's the pun.
The Vania refers to Castlevania which took a pivot itself when it released Symphony of the Night, which combined elements from Metroid with elements from previous Castlevania games. The genre eventually became named for both.
I don't think Ellen needs to worry about being sacked for the puns in this video. If making puns was a sackable offence, then I think she would have been sacked a long time ago. Her job seems safe, thankfully.
Booooooo
It might still be wise for her to stay away from sacks, fire and boots, however. Just in case poetic retribution becomes popular.
So what you're saying is that she won't be PUNished?
@@thel1355 booooooo boooooo boo!
Ellen and Luke have certain privileges when it comes to word-play. A special dispunsation, if you will
Saints Row radically changed from 1 & 2 being similar to GTA with some humour to the off the rails insanity that was 3 & 4
agreed though there were hints of the absurdity in 2 though 4 went "f it"
Yeah. SR2 was a semi serious gang simulator with wacky mini-games. SR4 went full bore humour and meta-references. I do sort of miss the activity cutscenes. "We dont want you to hurt anymore, but let's be honest.. They're porn fans."
I liked 2 and 3. 4 might as well have been a Prototype game and I don't like it.
The "Things are bound to change" line was perfection. Bravo Ellen Rose. Perfection.
When GTA 3 came out, I first thought they made a huge mistake with the "generic" third person perspective. The top-down view of the first two games felt like an integral part of the charm. Turns out it was I who was mistaken; loved the new gameplay from the start.
And you could still play it top-down if you wanted!
It hasn't aged well, but Duke Nukem 3D was a huge departure from the previous sidescrolling Duke Nukem games and it did incredibly well at the time. And I suppose GTA is well known for a similar shift, although from an overhead view. No longer with us is the Descent series. Fly a ship through a series of claustrophobic mines owned by our capitalist overlords while destroying robots. And then comes Descent Freespace. Fly a ship through open space in a full fledged galactic war against an unknown alien enemy. So good it was, the sequel just called itself Freespace 2 and Descent only got one more title before retiring forever (more or less). And then Freespace also retired forever because they were both owned by Interplay, mentioned in this video.
Descent Freespace was such a great game. Such good dogfighting.
Ah, thanks for mentioning FreeSpace, good sir/madam!
If you've ever played the newer Yakuza games, you'd know that the series before 7 had a lot of RPG staples. Rabdom battles, grinding for money, unlockable skills, equipment with RPG-like stats. So, while it was surprising at the time, in retrospect it makes a lot of sense and doesn't seem like that big of a shift from older titles. It should be pretty telling that the devs managed to overhaul the core gameplay loop just a few months before release, most of the mechanics were already there
The big Final Fantasy change happened in X-2 actually. XII just added gambits and equipment changes. X-2 had characters repositioning around the battlefield and timing attacks outside of traditional turns.
I forgot to mention my boi, Jak! Jak and Daxter was a fantasy sci fi platformer about a boy so pure of heart he wouldn't speak. The sequel was a gritty platformer shooter where Jak not only got a complete attitude makeover, but got the ability to transform into a monster as well. Not only did Jak II shift its mechanics quite a bit, it's tone changed drastically!
You should do one thats the opposite, games that failed after changing
Which would be great because then they can talk about that other Metroid game that no one talks about (Other M).
The Dawn of War games could go on both lists. DOW1 and its expansions were pretty standard RTS games. DOW2 moved to be more of a top down RPG. DOW3 tried to change back to an RTS, but did a very bad job of it.
Oh SimCity Societies, we had such high hopes for you. Now you're not even part of the series anymore. The reboot ended up being a poorly done Cities: Skylines clone.
Mortal Kombat, Tomb Raider, Saints Row after the second game (though opinions vary), Sonic the Hedgehog (again, opinions vary), Final Fantasy post X (though XII could be an exception), and Medal of Honor post-Airborne could count here.
DoW III is non-canon for a lot of us, and we prefer to end things on DoW II: Retribution. THEY SHALL NOT FIND US WANTING!!!
It's not _impossible._ Ellen used to bullseye radroaches with her CZ 75 TS. They're not much bigger than 2 metres.
God of War. Angry Kratos whaling on everyone and everything became over-the-shoulder and deliberate, assisted by a smol boi.
Puzzle series Picross - my favorite - did pretty good when it replaced the 2D grid with a 3D cube to chisel puzzles out of.
I want to hear Andy's full opinion on Yakuza Like A Dragon.
I'm surprised he didn't interrupt Ellen halfway through the entry.
@@annana6098 They recorded that bit when he was on his lunch break :)
@@RavenZahadoom that's really, really funny..., and probably true.
This should be a video. Maybe a let’s play...
Long-form video essay signed Andy Farrant, about Y:LaD and the rest of the series? Sign me up!
What about all the different Mario games? I’m pretty sure Nintendo’s Mission statement for Mario games in the 90’s was just that clip of Ross carrying the sofa up the stairs
I am ashamed to say it took me a moment to get it.
“Even Link had an emo phase” *shows Twilight Princess footage* I think you’ll find that’s his furry phase. 😜
Must have been into it, he already had one when he had the pink bunny look.
He was an emo furry!
I'm currently playing Tale of two Wastelands, which is combined Fallout 3 and NV in the NV engine. You can seamlessly travel between DC and Mojave in the same game!! I'm also playing it through Mod Organiser 2 with over 120 mods. It has taken about a week to set it up exactly how I want, but I am now quite a few hours into what is potentially a 400 hour epic, and it feels FANTASTIC! God I can't wait for Starfield...
I've got to take time out to appreciate Ellen's "bound to change" joke
Shame the company couldn't Handle Ellen's puns. In my opinion she makes or Brakes Oxtra and while I love Luke, I honestly think Ellen's additions truly make these videos beSpoke. She's just Wheely fun to watch. I hope she's able to find success when she Peddles her wares on her personal channel. I'll see myself out.
Booo! Boo.
Yakuza LAD is the first in the series that I've played. It's violent but it has so much heart and good vibes that I wish more games would take cue.
I didn't like Yakuza Kiwami, i didn't want to read the game, and wasn’t a fan of the combat, but PS Plus had basically all the Yakuza games for free, and I learned that LAD was a Turn Based Game. I played it, I loved the story telling so much that I went back to Yakuza Kiwami and played it, finished it, loved it, and went on to play Judgement, Kiwami 2, 3, and I burnt out on 4. Halfway through it. I'll probably return in a bit, I still love the games. I think they're some of the best video games ever made. The story is rich and hilarious. I just felt that Ryu Ga Gotoku put their hearts and souls into the game and I love it.
"..much like someone handcuffed to a roll of coins, things are bound to change." this line is great
I was scrolling through the comments while watching the video, and I was reading this comment right when she said it.
Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare is a good contender. Going from tower defense to third person shooter is a huge jump, but it worked great.
Really good point
True, but I still prefer the very first PvZ game.
I wish we got another like the original. They just stick with the multiplayer team battle games.
I enjoyed New Vegas and Fallout 4, but I do really miss the top down, turn-based Fallout
13:15 the funny thing is, ffxii IS turn based, its basically the same ATB that ff 4 and onwards(up until X) had, the diference is, you can move to position yourself. but you still have to wait for your gauge to fill before any move goes out, same for the enemies. i still find it funny how many people never realized that.
I feel like it should be noted that Dynasty Warriors is actually a spin off of the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms strategy games. What we know as Dynasty Warriors 1 is known as Sangokumusou in Japan, and what we know as Dynasty Warriors 2 is called Shin Sangokumusou, so it's more like a spinoff of a spinoff (of a game based on Chinese literature loosely based on Chinese history)
"Much like someone handcuffed to a roll of coins, things are bound to change" Genius, Nellie!
The pun game is especially strong in this one and I love it!
literally have been watching for years and Ellen; you've out-pun yourself.
Idea: Seven fighting games that had realistic hit noises like “slap”, “clap” and “bop”, instead of “BOOM”, “POW” and “CRACK”. Can’t really think of any though..,
*UFC has entered the chat* *Kratos has entered the chat*
I'll help, but first I'm going to need a more clear definition of "fighting game" as that's a VERY broad genre from Smas Bro's to MMA/boxing sims.
>realistic hit noises >"bop" You know Adam West era Batman wasn't a documentary, right?
Fight Night: "Am I a joke to you?"
@@superscatboy If you hit someone in the torso, 'bop' is a pretty realistic sound for it.
Stepping out of the vault for the first time in fallout 3 still has to be one of the coolest game moments ever
I might argue that Resident Evil's pivot started with 4. I mean, okay, first person is kind of a big step, but so was being able to upgrade your inventory, or buy better guns. Hell, being able to free aim was pretty big for me.
While Halo Wars was a spinoff, it was still a radically different game, than the first and was a good game. Dune 2 changed completely from the first and was a progenitor of the rts genre. Both games were very good. You could also have included the GTA series.
Dune 2 wasn't intended to be a sequel apparently. It was a strange case of accidental parallel development, if you can find somewhere that tells the story it's quite odd.
@@durhamdavesbg4948 Quite true, but that does not mean that it didn't end up as one. Incidental or otherwise.
Halo Wars and Gears Tactics were both pretty great.
5:15 I would have the same reaction as Luke if I saw Zombies coming at me interrupting the loading screen. And I don't swear that much.
If there's going to be a future video of this format, I'd gladly cast a vote for Pokemon Legends: Arceus. [Walls of text incoming.] To take Pokemon's usual standard format of "fight a handful of gyms for badges along a series of slow-opening hallway routes and then fight the Elite Four" and turn it into a Monster Hunter-esque zone exploration game with missions, a new format for cataloging Pokemon (individual species capturing and researching instead of just catching one species to unlock all of its Pokedex information), a new turn-based battling format that was based on speed (both Pokemon stat and move type) and not just "one move per turn for everyone" like in the other games, item crafting at stations and in the field, Noble Pokemon taking the place of Gyms, open-world navigation (including gliding, surfing, land mounts, and fast traveling), and overworld Pokemon changes/interactions (including Alphas, space-time distortions, sneaking, non-battle capturing, feeding/luring mechanics, direct threats that could actually hurt/debuff the player directly and not just start a battle if they touched you like in SwSh, etc.) was a very bold move to make, but in my opinion, it all worked together fantastically. And, come on. It funnels into you fighting the god of that universe at the end. You, some kid, get to directly square up to god in the end. The thing that technically created you and the systems that brought you into existence is genuinely trying to attack (and likely just kill) you with lasers, energy waves, meteors, and full-body charges. And, to top it all off... you, the same kid, can catch it, and then cart the god of everything around the region with you like a toy breed dog in a purse. I grew up with the franchise and love the games to death (especially RSE/ORAS, DPPT, and USUM), but personally speaking, PL:A is the absolute best set of changes that I could have ever possibly hoped for. I intently sank so many hours into the game just to do as much as I possibly could in it, since it was a new feeling with all of the aforementioned mechanical changes and more. Honestly, I'm vaguely hesitant to ever go back to the old mechanics just because PL:A spoiled me that badly with its changes.
Arceus was really amazing. I feel like it's kind of overshadowed now by Scarlet/Violet and how polarising they were (some people really liked them, a lot absolutely hated them) but it was just a really solid game.
18:04 - that WAS actually a staple move of any real-life Yakuza fight in the eighties and nineties (or, at least, a fairly common one - what with there being so many bicycles around)
worst day and an oxtra upload? amended
Thank you so much for mentioning Dynasty Warriors, they are my favorite type of beat em ups. I kept wondering if anybody else remembered them.
Im a big DW fan but I couldn't get into DW9 at all. Hard to enjoy killing an army by yourself if your enemies are spread too far across a huge empty map with nothing worthwhile to do.
Off the top of my head: Mario RPG Metal Gear Solid (arguably) Rune Factory (adding an action RPG to a farming simulator) Luigi's Mansion (new star, not a platformer) Devil May Cry (originally Resident Evil 4) Resident Evil 4 (arguably a bigger pivot than RE7) Persona 3
When I saw Fallout my first thought was also, "First Person RPG", but I've also played the original game (the one developed for MS-DOS/Windows 95), so I know that it was isometric-turn based combat initially.
After Mario made the jump to 3D, I doubt Nintendo had too much worry about Metroid, and as beloved as Breath of the Wild is, I do recall some bemoaning the lack of dungeons.
Literally one of my least favorite Zelda games for exactly that reason and the weapon breakability, with all the rave reviews I was so excited to play it and ended up being completely underwhelmed
I tried it. Didn't like it. Weapon durability was huge. But more than anything, I played LoZ for the narrative. I play sandbox games for different reasons than that. I rarely finish sandbox games cause too many options without clear direction tends to sidetrack me personally too much and by the time I find my way back to the main story, I'm burnt out. I'm sure it still has a good story and all, but it's not a format I can enjoy for the story. So I guess I will never get to fully experience it.
Remember that you can get a free royal claymore from the woodland tower and weapons from the coliseum depending on how many divine beasts you've done every blood moon. But yeah, weapon durability was controversial.
Because we had fun in those dungeons!
I feel like I need to bring up the Persona series. Persona 1 and Persona 2 (and it’s direct sequel) were structured somewhat similarly to SMT games at the time, gaining more Persona by negotiating with demons and lacking the social link system. Persona 3 took away negotiation replacing all demons with Shadows and gave us the dating sim element/social links, and then Persona 5 came around and kept the social links but added negotiation back into the game with shadows that took the form of demons, along with a lot more action elements compared to Persona 3 and 4’s just walk through the dungeon and fight monsters till you get to the boss by adding stealth, more intractable objects, and so on. What started off as an SMT spin off game turned into its very own well loved franchise and I think it deserves to be on this list as at LEAST an honourable mention.
Does the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series count? (still turn based figthing and exploration) Does GTA Chinatown Wars for the Nintendo DS count for the matter? (although the pivot is returning to 2D and it's probably just because I did enjoy the game)
Probably better to reference gta 3 for that
Great video as always. Fallout 3 and Metroid Prime were the first games I ever played in either. That said, turn-based jrpgs are my favorite genre, a dying genre these days which makes me sad. FF games after X I have not had much fun with. But hey, original final fantasy was based off of D&D, and what do you do in D&D? You take turns. I personally like the relaxed pace of them, giving me time to think, and relax. Action anything stresses me out after awhile. I also enjoy the games with timed attacks and blocks like the Mario RPGs , and the South Park ones. But to each their own. XII did have Balthier though, the only video game crush I ever had. Lol
If we're talking about hard pivots, let's not forget the Panzer Dragoon series which abruptly switched from Space Harrier-style on-rails shooter to (brilliant) JRPG.
Love the Jonathan Coulton reference for Resident Evil! :D
We’re not unreasonable. I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes.
I don’t hear people talk about final fantasy 12 often and talking about it positively even less often. However the battle system did inspire the combat system in a number BioWare’s games especially in the Dragon Age series which I think is neat
I love that Final Fantasy and Yakuza were mirrors of each other, one going from turn-based to real-time, and the other going from real-time to turn-based.
@@falsnamae3511 I don't know, XIV seems to be doing pretty good. Pretty sure the other ones did well as well. XIII was the fastest selling one up to that point, and XII wasn't much worse at sales. The metacritic reviews put them all over 80% ratings, besides the PC port for XIII which had more to do with the port than anything else. I think the issue you're having is that a change was made, and you doggedly refuse to accept that any change could be positive or at the very least just as good. From what I've looked at, both XII and XIII did amazingly well, reviewed very well, and weren't these "catastrophes" you think of. In fact XII did about as well as its predecessor, and directly inspired Dragon Age: Origins to boot.
0:57 Tax puns are Best puns
I always thought the legend of Zelda was a strange name for a video game series. Why is the series named after the damsel in distress who’s major contrition to most games is getting kidnapped and having her own powers used against her.
I want them to make a game with Zelda as the playable character and name it Legend of Link.
I’d love a Zelda game with Zelda as the main player character.
@@mikoto7693 W̵̧̢̢̡̧̨̧̢̢̛̛̛̘̳̩͉̰͚͙̻̘̯̱̗͈͖͖͈̼̤͔̣̱͉̳̘͖̙͔̰̼̠̮̹̲̱̝͓̳̤͔̙͈̫̥̘̰̪̥͓̩̱̼͖̜̲͙͙͖̫̓̐̓͋͒̓̍͑͆͑̊͑͒͆͂̄̈́̑͑̒̄͛͒͛̇̒̄̀̔͆̀̀̋̉̊̔̓́͐̌̋̔͑̈́̀̄̈́̃̇́̄̓͐̓͊͘͘͜͜͝͝͠͠ͅͅͅą̷̡̛̘̣͇̲̜̖̜͖͓̩̣͙͚̮̹̼̠͓͈̺͈̼̼̜͉̙̖̪̔͐́̽͛̓͑̅́͒̀͒̄̔̌̀̌̄̿͊̃̾̔̾̿̉̒́̂̃̀́͘͘͘̕̕͘͝͝͝ǹ̵̡̡̨̧̧̺̲̮͚̦̲͕̹̲̬͓̩͈͎̥͙͚̯̮̺̱͖̞͓̪̠̣̰̤̞̲̹͕̻͈̭̫̬͍̣͖͖̏̐̿̒̄̈̔̒͂̾̋́̔̄͊͋̌̕̚ͅd̵̡̧̢̳͓̞̳̱̖̤̻̱̮̳̘̣̼̮͔̯̼͚͉͕̻̳͉̦͚̞̆͜͜ͅ ̵̨̨̛̛̛̣̝̰̞͖̤̳̳̖͌̇̆̈́̈́̋̐̎͋̀̊͑̏͛̆͆̿̂̍̍̆̉̔͌̀͆̀̈́́̀̈̋̋̉̈́́̈͂̊̀͐̏̓̓̌͒͐̋̎̍̌̌̑̇̋͌̿̈̏̚͝͠͠͠͝ỡ̸̡̧̢̢̳̳͎͎̙̩̲͈̳͇̮̖̻̤̫̭͉͎̱̘̹̜̬̱̼̤͍̼̦̼̘̰̱̥̠̦̂̾́̃̏͊̀͂̃̃̀̀̍̒͑̓̉̓͛̄̅̇̒̎̈̽̆̾̓̎̍͐́̈́̀̅̒̆̐̄̈́̑̀͂͂̑̉͊̋̓̕͘͜͜ͅf̵̧̢̨̢̛̝͉͔̰̣̼͉̖͙͉̪̬̪̜̗̜̪͎̖̼̱̪̭̥̠͖͈̜̭̭̩̹̞̹̣̣͊̿̈́̐̔̃͋̔̓̊̾̈͗̍̐̄̓̃́̓̃̋̎̓̌̂̓̀̀̌̉̕̕͜͜͝͠ͅͅ ̸̧̧͕̫̣͈̗̬̼̺̳̖̺̠̪̜͔̪͇͌̈́̓̌̌͌͗̄̏̑̉͜͜͝G̵̡̨̧̧̧̨̧̖͍̰̠̪̜̜̙͈̣̪̲̻̹͕͚͓̯̲͚̙͕̩̝̰̼̼̰̳̟̘̰͚͈̜͈͍̳̺̺͍͎͈͕̰̘̝̮̝̺̪̹̠͇̫̱̤͕͉̠̘̝̼͌͋̉̈́̋͑̊̓̉́̉̾̓̽̒̿̈̇͗̐̈̔̋̒̀͘͘͜ͅͅͅą̵͓̯͙̱͈̰͈̘̣̺͍̦̪̼̟̩͚̪̪̣̭̥̔̌̄̓͑̈̀̂̽̂͒̓̔̃̈́̑̂̀͆̀̊̋̇̿̓̈́̑̑̇͑͊̀̍̾͊̄́̕̕̕̚͜͝m̶̡̢̡̧̢̛̠̗̥̲̱͎͔̪̞̣̞̻̗̙̮̻̩̠̤̜̮̰̘̻͎͈͋̀͛͗̄̓̅̍̓̍͒͛̾̒̐͒̿͑̔̌̆̒̐̒̏̀̎̈́̿̚̕͜͜͝ͅͅe̶̢̨̨̨͇̩̺̻̘̩͉̞̹̤͕̹͔̻̹̠͓͖͕̼̦̗͈͇̯̟͍͙͚͍̞͆̍̍̓̈̾̀̆̏̏́͛̉̇͌̇̅̈́̔̆͘͝ͅĺ̵̡̢̢̧̬̙̝̮̹̫͙̠̝͉̥̠̗̖̫̦͉̰̩̤̟͚̪̳̲͚̬̗̲̥̳͇̙̹̖̮̖͓̭͇̜̫̻̬̈́̎̃̇̑͑̏̔͊̆̏̎͑͐̈́̽͒̔͐̓̐̐̋̀͌̐̋̂̍̈́̒͌̂̅̋͑̂́̉̌̊͊͌͛͋̿̋͘͘̚̚̕͜͝͝͝͠ͅͅͅo̸̢̡̨̡̨̧̨̧̯̮̭͈̭̞̹̪̭͍̰̳̹̼̦͓̣̘̦̭͖̫̗̜̩͇̣̜͙̥͖͉̞̟̼̫̝͚̰̒̃̿͘̕ͅņ̷̧̛̛̲̼̱͕͎̗̝̭͓̲̯͚̩̦̱͎͎͖̼̙̖͇͓̪̺͉̭̳̩̭̗̦̲͛̾̋͑́͊̀̂͑̔̒̓̊̂̓̇͐̊̇̒̌̾̆͐̑̍̈̐̇̈͌̇͘̕͜!̸̡̢̨̧̡̢̧̛̛̱̘͚̦̙̰͔̳͎͍̣͚͙͉̪̭̯̙͕̫̪͖̰͉͍̖̺̺͓̯̯̺̝̗̫͎͙̹͓̱̙̼̰̤͆̀̌͗̋͐̍̈́͊̽̑̑̓̈́̿̿͛͒̐͑̈́͑̐͑̃́̅̀́̀̍̓͊͆̏͒̿̐̓͒͆̈́̚͘͘͜͜͠͠͝͝͝ͅͅͅ
Interesting, music from Prey 2017 in the background around 5:48, when talking about RE.
4:25 RE: YOUR BRAINS I didn't think anyone would remember Jonathan Coulton in 2021. Great reference!
AC Origins combat system. It completely changed how you approach your fights and sneaking from previous games. No more easily timing parries!
Its why the most recent 3 AC games are far better. Combat was easy in Black Flag and Syndicate (the rest don't exist)
I can’t believe they didn’t adapt fallout 3 for the PS4! If I had realised they hadn’t before I got a PS4 I wouldn’t have got one, until more recently - maybe, it’s still one of my favourite games
RPGs are more suited for the PC rather than consoles, you know, though there are some notable exceptions.
I haven’t played any games on the pc for such a long time I’ll have to start again
Eugh, the Final Fantasy change...man that polarized the hell out of my friend group. I understood after 10 goddang games they were looking for fresh gameplay, but FF was a comfort game, knowing you'd get a classic RPG experience in an era of knock-offs, reboots, and really trying too hard. I waved goodbye at FF12 as I just despised the combat. Controlling each character was important to my primitive monkey brain as I felt way less attached to the characters since I had no control over them. In an RPG. Just didn't sit well. But I was also the odd one out, starting on FF8 instead of FF7 because consoles were expensive for a middle schooler. I went FF8 liked -> FF9 loved ->FF7 disliked it for cliches before realizing it was the game that established a lot of FF cliches -> FFIII liked -> FFX resounding meh. To be honest, I don't hear much good about the later Final Fantasies. I think I remember 12 doing alright. 13 was really polarizing again, I think because of the characters. Then 13 got a sequel. I know lots of people who love FF14. And FF15 I hear is decent, but really, really buggy especially on PC. And that you have to buy and watch a DVD to get a lot of the plot setup as the game just kind of dumps you in the middle of the beginning. Breath of the Wild was a good game but felt that only having four short dungeons and having to grind shrines was a misstep. If the game had been open world with lots of sinister and dangerous dungeons, I'd've been all over it. The weapon degradation was pure garbage. There was a much better way to get people to try new weapons rather than having them break. Make different weapons work differently. A one handed weapon and a shield isn't going to be the answer for everything. And on top of that, you had to grind to open up more inventory space for weapons. I doubt it would have been minded nearly as much if only the primitive weapons broke, the wood and stone weapons. But forged goddamn metal should not shatter after 20 or 30 uses. Metal weapons really should have had a sharp/dull mechanic. If you use a weapon a lot, it gets dull over time, dropping it's damage stat a bit until it's very obvious you need to put a little maintenance into it. I'm not talking much maintenance either. Have Link carry a few whetstones and a bottle of oil. Two swipes of whetstone on each side of the blade's edge, add some sparks and Link looking happy or excited, and bam, weapon sharpened. Much better than having my goddamn weapon explode. You could go further with this idea. Link could be given another reason to go into towns or rest areas to use a professional foot powered whetstone to get bonus sharpness to weapons. Axes would need sharped too. Spears as well. Maces and mauls just take some time and not even consume anything as you rebalance the head of the weapon or something. Instead of having 15 bows, have one or two, and they're upgraded by replacing parts with better materials. Iron replaced by steel etc. Could even give the Great Fairies an additional use and have them magically upgrade the material that makes up the string of the bow. Arrow actually moves faster from upgraded bow, a bit more kinetic damage. Have the weapons be useful because of diverse enemy roster. Using a sword and shield to cleave through lightly armored enemies and keep your agility up is great. Axes be a bit slower but deadlier, just like IRL. And be excellent at destroying shields, especially wooden shields. Maces for those armored or magically enhanced thick skinned jerks. Great Axes and Mauls should be excellent for ripping shields out of hands or destroying them. Claymores basically 1-h sword but bigger. And ffs, don't make the Master Sword run out of goddamn energy. It's THE Sword Of Legend. I shouldn't need sharpening or to frickin' rest. And it wouldn't be a problem if diverse weapon needs were better fleshed out. And tighten up horse combat controls, it was really fun and an excellent use for spears and scimitars.
Here’s one for the commenter edition: The Metal Gear Series. From top down pixels in Metal Gear to Metal Gear Solid’s 3D Resident Evil style camera to MGSV’s open world free camera
Not really, since it was always a stealth game, the mechanics never changed. And since spin-offs don't count neither does Rising...
All that changed was the camera. Same characters, same stories, same mechanics, same themes, same playstyles... Kojima knew what made his game work and never challenged it too hard. I think he probably saw how Resident Evil went hard, and how much it lost for it.
Does most old Star Wars games having been flight simulators then suddenly going to RPG with the Jedi Academy count?
Nah. Jedi Academy is in the Jedi Knight series, which reaches all the way back to Dark Forces in 1995. I'm also not sure I'd call it an RPG - KotOR is a better example of that. Jedi Academy's closer to a shooter.
Jedi Academy is more action. The one I played, I don't recall any rpg elements. KOTOR is an rpg.
@@roguishpaladin jedi academy is a pure third person action adventure, I'd say ^^
@@rikusschulze6249 Er, yes. Sorry, I had Dark Forces on the brain when I said that.
Honestly, Rebel Assault was happening around the time of X-Wing, so doesn't quite work.
“...pivot their precious platform baby into a 3D FPS series” Me, an animator who has never played Metroid: ...Frames per second (/s)
Can't tell if you're joking, because this is the internet and for every sarcastic joke there's someone who's said it being 100% serious. But, she's talking about First Person Shooters.
I never would have guessed that "you can attack a guy with pigeons" might be the phrase to make me consider playing Yakuza....
"Make a Zelda game about Zelda." I see someone "forgot" the Phillips CD-I games.
Shh... you don't want the Nintenquisitors to find us.
How about the GTA franchise, big difference from top-down sprite perspective to open world third person?
didn't it only get popular after the change though? so not sure that one counts
@@zevo9314 Same could be argued of Fallout, though. Critically acclaimed cult classic before, massive mainstream franchise after.
@@zevo9314 The original GTA sold a million copies in the first year. GTA2 was less of a success, which is perhaps why GTA3 went to an open-world third person environment. It's probably the most successful pivot ever?
Why are you all talking like the 2D GTAs weren't open world?
Actually I d love it if Obsidian made a Fallout CRPG. Edit: Or a Sci-fi one that changes to a fallout one mid way.
I'd highly recommend The Outer Worlds. Might scratch that itch. Edit: Its on gamepass too
Ys 8: Lacrimosa of Dana is basically an Action-heavy traditional 3D Zelda-style game about Zelda. Or rather, about the titular Dana, who is playable as both a solo character and a super-important member of mostly-silent protagonist Adol Christin's (who is what you would get if all the Zelda games happened to one Link) party, in addition to being pretty much exactly what the hypothetical child of Breath of the Wild's Link and Zelda would be like (despite Ys 8 coming out around a year before BotW). Speaking of which, Ys going from bump-combat to regular action platforming combat circa Ys 3, and going to a single-player team based system for Ys 7.