How Much Horsepower Can We Make? Upgrading Our Chrysler 440 V-8 Engine With Bolt-on Parts
How much HORSEPOWER and TORQUE with our Redline Rebuild Chrysler 440 V-8 make on the engine dyno? And what happens when we make a few "Day 2" upgrades to the top end? Watch and find out! If you haven't already, watch the full engine and car time-lapse build video here: • Restoration Time-Lapse...
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Davin heads down to Apex Competition Engines to dyno our freshly rebuild race car engine. After doing a few pulls on the dyno to get baseline
HP and torque numbers, he then begins to make incremental upgrades to the top end of the engine to see how much more power we can squeeze from this hunk of iron. Upgrades include headers, electronic ignition, new intake manifold and carburetor, and finally some roller rockers to finish things off.
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
2:03 - Engine startup, check timing, warm up
4:18 - First dyno pull and results
5:59 - 2nd dyno pull and results
7:27 - Adjusting timing
10:29 - 3rd dyno pull and results
12:50 - Header "upgrade"
15:26 - 4th dyno pull - with headers
16:58 - Upgrading to MSD electronic ignition
18:39 - 5th dyno pull - with headers and MSD ignition
20:23 - New intake manifold and carburetor
21:50 - 6th dyno pull - headers, MSD ignition, new intake and carb
22:24 - Adjusting timing, carburetor tuning... needs more fuel!
22:42 - 7th dyno pull - more fuel, adjusted timing
25:03 - Roller rocker upgrade
26:51 - 8th dyno pull - with new rockers
28:20 - Adding our fancy headers!
30:08 - Last dyno pull - our headers, new carb and intake, roller rockers, MSD ignition
31:00 - Wrap up and summary of results
#RedlineRebuild #Horsepower #enginerebuild #dyno #neverstopdriving #redlineupdate
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An otherwise stock 440 with a mild cam, headers and a good dual point ignition is a recipe that was murder on the streets 50 years ago and still checks all my boxes today
I still can't get over how much you picked up with just the headers and ignition, that's horsepower the average guy can afford
For that stock 440 to make 410 hp.and over 500lbs. torque with low performance exhaust manifolds and points tells me it was really built well ! Love those 440's !
I hope Ford & Chevy guys were paying attention to this “mild” 440. Now you know why mopar guys love 440s 👍🏻
Roller rockers are more accurate with the ratio and over stock rockers, the engine may have picked up valve lift. If so, that would also account for some of the horsspower increase with the roller rockers. This is one of the most thorough dyno testing noting the addition in horsepower with each addition. Thanks for spending the day doing this and the day editing and uploading. Great job.
I had a 1968 Charger R/T with the 375 hp 440 and automatic transmission with posi-track rear end when I was in high school in the early 70’. All completely stock and was a very fast car to say the least. Picked up a set of Casler hedders along with Thrush mufflers from the local speed shop. Installation was a real pain, ended up picking the motor up about 10” to sneak the hedders in place. Cut the factory mufflers out and fit the Thrush mufflers in the factory pipes.Took me and my dad all day to do this, we were not the best wrenches around… Cranked it up and the mufflers were louder than expected, mom was not happy at all. After the smoke burned away from the hedder paint, dad and I took it for a spin. Wow what a difference! From a dead stop on the feeder to loop 610 with the transmission in 2nd floored it. Unbelievable, spun the tires from 1st to 2nd and didnt stop spinning until I let off and put it in drive. Speedo showed 65 mph. Looked in the mirror and nothing but tire smoke to be seen. Dad was freaking out saying something about a near death experience, he was tripping. I was sold on hedders from then on and put them on every car/truck I ever had but the Charger showed the biggest increase in performance of them all. Car was a beast. Sure wish I still had it…
There is no mistaking the sound of a 440. Such a beautiful low end grunt! And that torque curve. Those motors were just power. Pure power!! What a great build. I never miss these. :0)
For sure. 440s are incredible. Have mild-build one in my '68 Fury & stock in a '71 Imperial. Would love to try out that 440 dirt track car in the video!
Whenever I need a fix, I get out The Blues Brothers.
I think you mean: Mo power baby!!
I love a good holley but a working thermoquad is a bad dude
First thing that went through my head too, ride in a friends 440 charger. That sound....motor blew so much smoke, was shot but still pulled a tall gear pretty hard. DIg the thermoquads, Q jets from the era what a sound
So good, watched the entire thing without stopping. I love redline rebuilds.
Only reason I subscribe to Hagerty is recline rebuilds
We're big thermoquad people in my family (dad, me, and my sister) and it was fun to see it get the spotlight. Hardly anyone even gives it the time of day. Nothing else sounds like it, and if you grew up with it, you don't forget it
Love thermoquads!
Love Thermoquads. Not sure why they are not more popular. My dad jokes that I've cornered the market on them because I've got so many.
That Weiand intake is a bit of a relic. Both Holley and Edelbrock make (or made) ones that work better on a 440. A performer RPM is a known good one, gives more power without losing as much torque. The downside is that it’s taller and to fit it under a hood, you may give it up again with a low profile air cleaner. A Holley Street Dominator is a great single-plane option.
When the rpm intake is too tall the torker 2 and street dominator are a good choice
I had the best results with an Edelbrock Victor Jr. on builds below 400cid, with shift points at or about 7,100rpm, at or below 6,600 a Weiand Team G pulled well or single plane Edelbrock Torker with some epoxy and flow bench work, bigger engines at higher rpms, the Edelbrock Victor Ram, a Cross Ram, or full tunnel ram, and this was when a dyno was a rarity, and those who had them didn’t do outside or offer their services to the public. Fix that exhaust collector leak and you’ll get back the scavenging horse power (soak the gaskets in H2O overnight)
@@tomconner5067 Been running team Gs with port work for decades, love em Still make good torque and pull well from mid to high range....fit and look killer.
*DAVIN!* First off, thank you Hagerty for putting out this sort of content, *especially* with *Davin* ! As an old geezer type with a lifetime love affair with Mopars (especially 440s), I could have probably saved Davin a little time with what to set things at, what carb/intake, etc. but it all worked out fine. Now... A couple nitpicks, of course - the TQ wasn't on any Mopars until 1971 (not the late 60's as you said) and probably a better carb to start out with for the stock "street" baseline would have been the Eddy AVS2 800cfm, which is fairly similar to the original AVS carbs 440s had in the late 60's. TQ's were emissions carbs, not the greatest for use here. Still, all said - I'm very pleased with the results and yes, 440's LOVE headers (and dual plane intakes). Distributor initial at about 10BTDC, all in at about 35-36BTDC and feed it decent gas and you're good to go, especially with a vintage Mopar electronic ignition conversion on it. Thanks guys! - Ed on the Ridge
Ed, do you watch Donnie Laws too? I believe I've seen you there, but also SRC and Steve Mags channel. I live over here on the Plateau in Morgan Co.
@@joshuagibson2520 Isn't Donnie Laws that made up redneck dude on Bob & Tom? Not familiar with whatever "SRC" is either - and I have seen some of Magnante's stuff and he's right - sometimes. 🙂 Howdy over there in Morgan County! Been a while since I was over that was (I used to do inspections at Brushy Mountain and Morgan State Correctional). Spooky stuff when they were still in use... -Ed
Mopar # 1
Great info Ed, especially for us learning about this, thanks man!
Two notes: First, the rated HP for the high performance 440 4bbl prior to 71 was 375. Second, the Thermoquad wasn't used on 440s until after 71.
The exhaust manifolds are not the high flow more like off a late model smog 400/440
@@wulfschlueter2112yep 💯 those are not the high flow passenger car manifolds
Yeah, and I'd always assumed that Carter carbs were primarily a Mopar thing, and that Ford only used Autolite and Holley carbs back then. But recently I learned that there was at least 1 or more Ford production V8's that came with Carter carbs. Whether they were thermoquads, I don't know, as the article I read didn't go into that detail.
At 7:28 he asked if the dyno operator thought the high horsepower numbers were from the cam. Does the camshaft have stock specs? He also mentioned head porting at 12:06? So is it stock or not?
Don't forget that in that era the 440 was used in everything from B and C bodies to trucks. Within this bandwidth are engines set up for ordinary passenger service (350), hi-po B and C bodies (375), police service (375 but cammed for top end), and the 440-6 (390). The cam is everything.
Excellent video. You should have used the time honored Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. I guarantee it would have gave exceptional torque and horsepower, especially compared to that outdated unit.
🎯
💯
Yeah what he said.. I was hoping they'd try the rpm intake and see some real gains..a true street strip intake
Most folks that build engines know that headers, special fuel manifolds, high capacity carburetors, ignition systems and other performance parts increase HP/torque. But seeing the actual data using the dynamiter removes the guesswork. Great video.
Yup, Greg Anderson said in a deeper interview in his workshop that the most important thing in the world when building engines, is a dyno that does not deviate more than 1-2% between pulls and engines, or some other low number. It is crucial and vital to get good and consistent data or you are working blindly when finding horsepower. And he knows his American engine architecture stuff! Pet Peave: I'd like to see Pro Stock step away from valve springs, rockers, pushrods and OHV and go to pneumatic valves for much higher RPM, but it likely won't happen.
I had a 440 very similar to this, had it in my 68 Cuda, very light, 4/56 posi 4 speed was enough to get mid 11's, was fun street machine.
Love that yr Cuda bet that car hauled azz. 4.56 were common back then with 55mph speed limits...you may be in the slow lane but could take the fwy to work every day
Art and Science with Greasy Hands…Just don’t get no better!
I like the dual plane intakes for the bottom end. Headers over stock exhaust always. Good stuff Davin!!
WOW, Rusty old headers for the win !!!! Awesome 440. Those secondaries on that thermoquad sound wicked! 👌👌👍👍😎😎
I wanted to see the car on the rollers to see the specs at the rear tires. Anyway in 1968 my brother bought a brand new Plymouth GTX off the showroom floor with a 440 + 727 torqueflite. One of his friends older brother was Kenny Duttweiler who my brother had billed his car for quarter-mile drags at Lions drag strip. I don't have the specs but I know it ran a 14-second 1/4 mile stock and 11.9 after Kenny did his thing. I don't remember if Kenny remembers the car and I have lost the film of it that I took when I was 7 years old. I just remember it had an Edelbrock intake, Iskenderian cam, Hooker Headers, 4.56 rear gears, 10" slicks. I will presume a Holley carb. It was that beautiful blue color because I remember my brother, who was 14 years older than me, got cancer. I still remember he took me for a drive in a Red 68 Camaro and he asked me what my favorite color was. I told him I like the red car but my favorite color was blue. So when he bought this 1968 Plymouth GTX it was I believe it's called bright blue metalic. My WWII US Army Dad race did it Lions drag strip as my brother was in the Veterans Hospital in Los Angeles. My brother passed on in 1969. My dad been traded the car off for a 1969 Cadillac Coupe DeVille. I wish you would have kept it because I think my brother chose that color because he loved and felt he wouldn't be around long. I would have loved to have it now. I love you, my brother, who I called Bubby, but his real name is Danny and someday I will see you in Heaven.
Wow!! The sound of a big block MOPAR hitting the big numbers is incredible. Can't wait to see what your next project is.
Where can I watch read about the car , big respect to Davin, just amazing how simple you guys lay down all the aspects of engine building, watched all your engine builds
That shows just how good the factory manifold and Thermoquad are.
man I want one of these Chrysler Big Blocks for my A body, but I am in Australia and we didn't get them here.
They for sale all over here!
@@antilaw9911 If I send you some cash can you send me one? haha
I'm a huge fan of dyno days. Thanks for taking us along.
It would be interesting to see if a performer rpm manifold would improve both torque and hp. Nice build.
It would for sure
It definitely would. No Doubt.
You guys do a great job, very professional on both the content and the video quality. Its amazing what these engines can do. You didn't even do a cam or head upgrades and its killing it already.
Sean Murphy's tuning did my carb. Nice having him "down the street ' in Huntington Beach 👍🤘
Working on a 1974 mopar 440 rn. I'm going to keep it on the road.
greta's sad now 😂
@@jmyd83🤣👍
Enjoyed watching and understanding how flexible this engine is. Great job 👏
Ahhh, thermoquad. The only carb that punishes you at WOT. David Frieberger. Cool build Davin, love the redlline rebuild series.
Wow,horse power,what a Thorough explanation on. Horsepower, Ignition , wires,carb,what a great video,an ut was a Mopor..sweet Thanks Haggerty and the crew,
NIce to watch a couple of professionals at work, and having fun !!! Good work guys. !! Thanks, both of you.
Excellent content. Really enjoyed the whole build of this 440 Mopar. You guys did a great job with this episode, showing the difference how much each change made a to the previous with real data. The stock numbers were quite impressive as well. Hats off to the machinist & mechanic! Well done & keep up the good work. Cheers🙂
Awesome video Davin!! Bring more like these!! Lots of information cool stuff, and a real nice esplanation of every step on the job!! Thank you!!
I just need one of those WD-40 coffee mugs.
this was very cool! love to see the back to back comparisons and data analysis. interesting tests for sure. great video keep up the hard work!
Man it's incredible what this channel teach and pleasure people that love V8's like us! Thank you Davin for share it whith us!
Awesome Dyno session great add on to the Hagerty engine rebuilds.
Watched the whole video all the way though and it is really cool to see the power gains with the different bolt on modifications! Great video and can't wait to see some more!!
Standard output like that engine was 350 hp@4600 And 480 to @2800 So the fact that it did 417 is very impressive
That made impressive numbers with the cast iron intake and the ThermoQuad. Well-done, guys.
Nicely explained and shown for those not very mechanically inclined. Excellent job. 👌🙂👍
Thank you for taking us through step by step with each engine change and showing us how this effected the performance. Very educational plus enjoyable to watch as well.
Nice build! The 440 is a beast and was the king of torque on the street. With basic bowl porting and a performer rpm, you might hit 550+ 😁
100-150more hp wont happen with those two things but it will pick things up
Sweet! The 383 in a truck we played with made the most torque with about 4 deg initial timing. That was the "seat of the pants" dyno with an edelbroken carb and an "RV" cam grind. Made for a fun rig.
Really enjoyed, Thanks Davin😍 Great work👍🏻
This was a fun one to watch Davin. 👍
All terrific stuff overall! Davin....i was most impressed with what you & your staff were able to achieve given the "stock" engine results - - over 400hp on old/rebuilt plain-jane big block with stock pieces. Awesome!
Yeah was also mostly surprised with how good the stock result was!
It also has an aftermarket cam, evident by the idle
BB Mopars, my favorite motors by far! Ive had about ten of em.
Thank you for the step by step dyno workout!
Bro you have really come a long way since I first found your channel, congratulations on your business growing 😁
Nice build. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Absolutely love Hagerty's channel. I've always been a car guy and my girlfriend has always been interested but these videos spark something in her that makes her wanna go out and just buy an engine just to build it hahaha.
Great video, nice step by step testing, would have loved to see some aftermarket cylinder heads.
I must be weird but this was very entertaining. Would love to see a 351 Clev vs a windsor
Amazing results with each change. Love mopars
All I remember about my dad's New Yorker besides a land yacht, was it had a 440 4 barrel and it would spin tires all day. Loved the feeling when the other 2 barrels opened up.
Thanks again Davin!! Ready to watch this thing race for real!! Post some videos!
this format was greatly entertaining! What a beauty of a powerplant.
Very enjoyable, looking forward to doing this on my hot rod someday. Thanks.
I always used Blue Streak ignition parts when I could. They were the best!
I thought what you did on the cam bearings was phenomenal. Never seen that trick b4. Great video! Thanks for sharing.
I have to admit, I really enjoyed seeing Davin try to wring out more power on the Chrysler 440 engine that was rebuilt in the timelapse video.^^ It shows how different parts and ignition tuning can affect the engine's output.
Thank you for sharing all this knowledge!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge 😊
Another badass episode from Hagerty 🎉🎉🎉
Watching other shows adding 18” of collector length on the dyno headers might have helped. It was fun watching the parts add to the air pump’s efficiency. :)
awesome work ! thanks for the video
Young dude know his business, bright future!
Thanks guys!!! Another great video!
Finished watching the tear down & assembly videos. Strange combination of parts. Square bore intake that has been modified to accept a spread bore Thermoquad, different heads, Truck /RV style exhaust manifolds, after market rods (if they came with the engine), forged steel crank in a block that probably came with a cast unit. Vary good performance considering. By the way, those Chrysler style rockers are very, very reliable. Vehicle engine combo neat. Enjoyed the videos, thanks.
Great stuff. Enjoyed
At 58, this takes me back to my dad and I messing with that fickle thermostat on my 1969 Roadunner. We found out later there was a pin hole in one of the floats. I totally enjoyed this video. Kudos on a great build. I'm j7st an hour from Apex, when I'm ready for a rebuild I know where I'm going to.
great case study not only on how different changes make incremental gains, but also how those changes compound on one another and become greater than the sum of their parts.
Motortrend do this on the show engine masters
You would be surprised how many arguments I've had about getting rid of those (pos) stock exhaust manifolds . Amazing 50 hp with one set of "bolt on " headers - seems like a no brainer. Thanks for the video, great job😊
Cool video, it was fun.
Excellent, that was/is fun to watch!
Amazing video. Congrats.
Great show! I gotta think the engine will be run with an air filter, so I 'm surprised that wasn't part of the dyno program.
The graphs at the end of the video were quite interesting !
Best episode yet!
HP and TQ should intersect at 5252 rpm! ??
Thank you! There is something very wrong with these numbers. The torque is falling off awfully fast and as you said, HP and torque *must* intersect at 5252. The dyno measures torque and horsepower is calculated from that using the equation HP = TQ * RPM / 5252.
Great testing and video guys! Of course you know changing cam timing can find horsepower along with better valve springs. Edelbrock perf.rpm and carb spacer?
Great freaking video!
Super video!!!
Would have liked to learn what the AFR was before and after the headers. In my experience, they tend to lean things a little and that can add some power if it doesn't go too far. Also, did the detonation changed with the headers?
I was really pleased at just how good the stock intake manifold was. The headers and electronic ignition were the really big bang for buck improvements. My opinion is the aluminum Weiand manifold was not worth the effort. If it was me, I would probably go back to the stock manifold and use the custom headers. I suspect the peak hp would have been about the same, but you would have had a fatter torque curve across the board which would help the dig getting out of the corners and you probably could have continued to use the thermoquad carburetor and saved a bunch of money there too. It looked to me like the thermoquad was providing a better fuel spread pattern than the new carb.
Agree..intakes dont make as much difference as people would hope for unless its highly modded, high rpm larger crank etc
Excellent analysis
Really good information. Wishing you could also do heads, electric water pump, and roller cam.
Just picked up my 440 this weekend, out of 66 Imperial. It's all original, zero mods. I got quad IDF webers and intake for it. Can't wait to get it done and see the Dyno results...
I hope we see it again.
I would love to see them do a 1970 383 Non HP motor... And hop it up on a budget with a Holley 2 barrel just like they did this 440 since most people drive around on two barrels I would like to see a performance 383 two-barrel no one's done it and that was Chrysler's money-making BigBlock motor. Holley 2 barrel, ported 516 closed chamber heads... Flat top pistons with a zero deck on a performance dual-plane with headers an electronic ignition using a 383 hp cam and oil pump. Double roller chain and roller rockers and roller cam. Yeah let's see that!!!!
Very interesting video, lots of good data. Those headers look like Hellen Keller fabricated them.
A lot of work has been done! I never thought that so many horses could be obtained only by ignition. Probably this is a feature of large motors. On "chainsaws" with a volume of
Was the vintage Weiand single plane used for nostalgia reasons? Given the indicated rpm range for this engine I'm inclined to believe an Edelbrock Performer RPM would beat it everywhere in the range.
yes you are correct on the Nostalgia reasons for the Weiand.
Really great episode. I really appreciate you showing the Dyno graph after each modification.👍🇨🇦🍻
Interesting!! I think it would be a good 'service' to offer distributor recurving also.
Air Gap is the one they should have used. The few horsepower gained wasn't worth the torque loss with just the intake & carb.
I would ditch the Wiend intake and use a Edelbrock performer or torquer 2.
Hey. How reliable are the numbers from one pull? Is there any value in doing 3 pulls with each setup and then do an average? Aka: how much variation in number do you expect to see between each pull with the same setup? Thanks