Why is Marie Antoinette so controversial? - Carolyn Harris
Marie Antoinette became a symbol for the evils of excess- but was she a wasteful queen or a convenient scapegoat? You decide.
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She was the Queen of France, notorious for living in opulence while peasants starved and became a symbol of everything wrong with monarchy. But was Marie Antionette a heartless, wasteful queen, or a convenient scapegoat in turbulent times? Carolyn Harris puts this controversial figure on trial in History vs. Marie Antoinette.
Lesson by Carolyn Harris, directed by Brett Underhill, PorkchopBob Studio.
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I feel like Marie Antoinette is a great example of impossible double standards. She was blamed for being extravagant and wasteful, but any time she tried to present herself in a more casual light she was scorned for not showing her office proper respect, or for undercutting local luxury industries. Historians blame her for the failings of the French monarchy, but ignore the fact that she had little actual political power and was never taught to be a leader.
It is also unfortunate that France was mostly male dominated and had little room for women in power. Her sisters, Amalia and Carolina, were queens within modern day Italy and they were the actual rulers as their husbands weren’t really that talented nor interested when it came to ruling while Antonia could only watch from the sidelines.
France's problems were there long before she married into the royal family and she had absolutely no control over its governing. Heck that quote about cake was coined when she was nine and hadn't been to France! The unfortunate truth is that rather than discussing a variety of factors and groups involved in an event, people would prefer to focus on single person they can blame for the problem.
@@alyssaagnew4147not only that! they focus on the one person who can actually garner sympathy from the public. she is the most important person who had the least to do with what happened. i cant help but feel like this narrative is done on purpose to garner sympathy for the monarchy while avoiding discussing the failures of the monarchy and also the suffering of the french people. it just seems like they put her in front and say "you guys overreacted! she did nothing wrong! she was a victim!" the french people were also victims and yet louisxvi is completely missing from the discussion
the nobility would often criticize Marie for not dressing apropriatly for a queen, mostly in her first years since she wasnt used to the standards that were expected from her She even invented the Chemise-a-la-reine.
Her hair was a boat, literally.
I love how they both agreed Louie was a terrible king
All dictators are terrible, despite some having been romanticized.
@@loki2240 but Louie didn’t even have that privilege.
@@loki2240 Being a dictator isn't the problem, being an incompetent dictator is
But their point about the veto was weird. The National assembly gave Louis the right to veto legislation. He was just exercising his powers.
@@The40Oliver - Having a dictator is always a problem. Please do a lot more research and critical thought.
Marie Antoinette is one of the biggest "wrong place, wrong time" people in history.
Seriously!!
@vujoleenanh wtf?
Fr
@vujoleenanh LOl, the dude saying getting a head chopped off was going out better than most.
She dug her grave with the "rotten bread" remark. She said it right before the revolution began...in my opinion they should have simply dethroned her instead of executing her. Her husband was to blame for the conditions of France.
Just to remember : Marie-Antoinette was 14 when she was married, but Louis was 15. They were both kids, married to solidify alliances
yeah, really seems like the monarchy was a bad idea and needed to be abolished. glad you recognized that.
Which made them easy puppets and scapegoats for the true rulers: the rich and the Church
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN The aristocracy and clergy should have been put into their place, which could have happened if Louis XVI was more confident.
They were leeches, who were taught nothing (who for some reason people use as some sort of excuse?) And whose only redeeming qualities were that they were born lucky. Born as leeches, live as leeches, died as leeches
@@hasturthekinginyellow5003 Amen to that
There’s a lot of people you could list when it comes to controversial historical figures, but Marie Antoinette really takes the cake
Foul 😂
That joke should be illegal and the sentence should be the guillotene
“Get of the stage!” *Throws like*
Badum tss
@@alvarodebarrio7718"To the guillotine!"
Fun Fact. Marie Antoinette met Mozart when they were both 7. He was playing for her family when he tripped. She caught him. Mozart tried to propose to her.
...and everyone clapped
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN You have google and other resources, you can easily verify this. It indeed happened.
Hold on boys imma write a quick fanfic for this new ship
@@mthercrow3818 ngl i'd probably do that
There's probably a time-line out there where Marie Antoinette was Mozart's wife.. I wanna be in that time-line :( she deserved better and so did Mozart
I can’t believe after so much time, I started hearing a lot about how Marie was much more simpler and “nicer” than people portrayed her. It really does showcase how we can all follow a fabricated narrative when enough people tell it.
She was instrumental in preventing Louis the XVI to let go part of his power. She communicated battle plan to the enemy of France. This video is a fabricated narrative.
She was still corrupt and out of touch
@@ecurewitzProbably, but just like the revolutionaries. Most of them, which do not survive their own revolution, executed by treason and power struggles, by their own members. Napolean's path to power and despotism was only possible because he promise to solve the chaos, the barbarity and the hypocrisy of the Revolution. And the people bite the speech.
Still deserved the guillotine
@@ecurewitzshe had basically no education on how to be in power though, and was already in a state of turmoil. a collapsing country, the fear of her own life getting destroyed, fear of dying- what would anyone do?
I think we can all agree that she was the least guilty of the Royal Family
I can get behind that
Among adults, yes. Her children were even more innocent.
Doesn’t excuse much though.
That’s a low bar to set
Still GUILTY!!!!
Reminds me of that one portrait scandal she had. She dressed in a chemise a la reine for a portrait and the people got mad for her “simple” appearance, and when they revised said photo to be more glamorous the people got mad at her “luxurious” appearance in said portrait. Literally the scapegoat for elites and lower class alike.
Double Standards for women are madness...
They literally only hated her because she's not French. That's wack
If I recall correctly the real problem with the chemise à la reine was that it was quite an "intimate" piece of clothing that should be worn around family or close friends and absolutely not be exposed to the view of all. That being said, she was definitely a victim of double standards and used as a scapegoat
@@bmona7550no they hated her because she was a part of an oppressive regime
@@helhana it wasnt exactly intimate clothing, it was just very similar in design to a popular type of nightgown which was why it was deemed "informal"
I hate how Marie Antoinette is always portrayed as a villainess when in reality she was just a scapegoat
She's not really portrayed as a villainess...
@@manila-89-93 she definitely is, let them eat cake is an example
@@ughceline the 'let them eat cake' / 'qu'ils mangent de la brioche' has been 'debunked' like a century ago in France...everyone knows she never said that, apart from the Americans seemingly
and Brioche is very different from cake. It's a softy, fluffy and sweet type of bread. Nothing to do with cake
Ahhhmmm really Okay. But again and again whatever it is its our own Business 😁
In my opinion, her actions of high spending were no worse than the rest of the French nobility. Unlike other cases in this series where most were remembered more positively than they should, Marie seems to be one the uncommon cases where history gave her more hate than she deserved.
Did you forget she isn't French? One of the slanders against her when she was alive was she is a foreigner, worse an AUSTRIAN. No Frenchmen, be it the poor, the middle, even the aristocratic, like her simply because she an Austrian. Even upon her trial leading to her death sentence the reason for imposing the death penalty on her is because she's a foreigner, and a foreigner whose country of origin is at war with France which follows that she's a foreign spy...
@@iridium8341personally i think Robespierre doesn’t get the hate he actually deserves, it’s always easy to blame the French royal family for everything but the revolution was messier than that, Robespierre when he became consul of the republic sent 40,000 under false pretenses, he was also installed his own cult but no one mentions this because king Loui was dead meanwhile the reign of terror was barely beginning
She was a symbol of past rule during a time of revolution, of course her reputation had to be slandered for the regime change to maintain support. Often with history, just like in our own times, there are no sides without some blood on their hands.
@@Daddimon I think the judge said it best, that her only real crime was being queen. By being both foreigner and aristocratic, she was an easy target for the radicals to point a finger for all the nations problems. For what seemed like the entirety of the trial, the defense never seemed to falter by the prosecutor's point and provided strong rebuttals
I saw a documentary on the dining habits of the monarchy during the revolution (The super tasters go). Maria actually had a very frugal diet. It seems she mostly preferred broth with noodles and peas for her evening meals. The majority of the food extravagance was spent on the communal meals at court. Anyway she was the queen consort and as far as I understand was not well liked at court. The likelihood of her having say over state affairs is not great from where I sit. The revolutionaries shouldn’t have killed her, and what they did to her children was unacceptable.
I'm honestly surprised you didn't bring up the truth about "Let them eat cake". It was an anecdote from Jean-Jacques Rousseau autobiographies in the 1760's, where he talked about an encounter with a young Austrian princess. "At length I remembered the last resort of a great princess who, when told that the peasants had no bread, replied: "Then let them eat brioches."" (a rich cake-like bread) He never named the princess (and he could have just made the encounter), but from that it turned into a game of telephone. From, "I bet Queen Marie was who Rousseau was talking about" to "Did you hear how Madame Deficit just said 'Let them eat cake' about the starving French people?!"
Underrated comment
yeah and it had been used in various other forms for centuries - what it really meant was that she and the rest of the royals were completely out of touch with the harsh realities of the common people - a fact that was very much true. so no, she didnt say it - but it was attributed to her because thats what the actions of the monarchy were saying. essentially the 18th century version of "the people losing their jobs should just get a new job!" - it means that the people in power have no clue whats actually going on with the reality of the situation, or that they just dont care.
I knew it I remember reading somewhere that Marie Antoinette never said "Let them eat cake",that it was someone else
He did dude
Also I read that the phrase already existed long before Marie became queen.
Marie Antoinette’s extravagance stemmed on the fact that France is the fashion capital of the world. She was encouraged to get the fanciest dresses, extravagant jewelry, etc. When she tried to dress in simpler clothes, she was mocked. Yes, she was a victim of circumstances beyond her control, the French politics during that time, and years and years of outdated tradition…
Was she also encouraged to leak military secrets and align herself with reactionary noblemen? 🤡
@@arethas1387 she and her family were threatened to killed, so of course she would give the secrets of the French especially when the revolutionary's had the power.
@@ivymora2370 on top of that she wasnt even french why wouldn't she want to take her children to austria where they might have safety and security for food and privacy
@@ivymora2370 they weren't tho, even after the flight to varennes and up to the August Insurrection most of the national assembly were on the royal family's side, the only thing she and her husband did was make it harder for people to defend them
@@zerishkamal9170 She only lived in Austria for 14 years and lived in France for the rest of her life, she was also the Queen and that's the whole point, when Robespierre was arguing for the execution of Louis XVI he said that if average everyday people could be executed for treason then the king who was the number one citizen should too, you can apply the same logic to Marie Antoinette
It’s always a good day when Ted-Ed posts a new History on Trial video
It's their best format in my opinion
I like the demon of reason myself
Facts
True
I like these alot
It’s kind of incredible how after centuries of oppression, mismanagement, and wasteful spending perpetrated by the french nobility… they tried to pin it all on the young foreign wife of the king. So low.
Perfect summary of the case Marie Antoinette! Greetings from Vienna, nearby Schönbrunn. She was just one of the many Erzherzoginnen (Archduchess) who were traded for political reasons.
@@iridium8341 yes really.
She seemed like a convient scapegoat
After all, its always the immigrants' fault...., right?
You have a very progressive view of young. She was 37 when she was tried and executed.
“Marie Antoinette. Her last words were,"Pardon me sir. I did not mean to do it,"to a man whose foot she stepped on before she was executed by the guillotine”
how sweet. too bad the monarchy couldnt apply such empathy to the french people when things were going good for them. its comments like this that really are missing the forest for the trees. literally people starving to death because of their inability to produce empathy when it counts. but she said sorry for stepping on her executioners foot so actually she was really polite. IM SORRY WHAT??
@@NIGHTGUYRYANThere is a record that the peasants near Versailles loved Marie Antoinette because when she went riding she always avoided trampling on their crops.
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN what part of she barely had any political power nor the circumstances to do anything did you not understand?
@@user-AAAA978 They may have but some did have their husband's ear. It's possible they could have had some bedroom influence periodically.
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN she was probably traumatized, by what was about to happen to her. She may have become kinder in the last moments of her life.
Qin Shi Huang, Alexander the Great, Shaka Zulu, Vlad Tepes, Queen Victoria, John Calvin and Oliver Cromwell are all polarising figures that ought to be put on trial to really analyse their character.
@@sassenspeyghel4155 some Iranians, (definitely in the past, not too sure about today) referred to Alexander as 'Alexander the Accursed' for conquering the Achaemenid Empire and burning the city of Persepolis down.
@@sassenspeyghel4155 All conquerors are polarizing, depending on whether your people were the ones conquered or not. Alexander conquered a massive portion of the civilized world, with that comes murder, genocide and abuse of power. Still, he's seen as one of the greatest humans of all time despite this.
Why stop there, lets do about religious figure, jesus, mohammad and so on. No one is perfect.
@@gimmick206 I don't know much about Mohammad, but Jesus for sure wasn't polarizing, lol.
@gimmick206 the commenter put John Calvin, and I guess it makes sense since he burnt someone at the stake for being non-Trinitarian, and I guess we can add Martin Luther too for being too harsh on Catholics, AnaBaptists, and Jews.
Another thing to note: Marie was a teenager for quite a few years of her time as Queen. When she got older, she tried to be more responsible but the people had made up their minds about her.
i was always taught marie was a horrible person but to learn she was actually more humble than told is shocking to learn
she wasnt a horrible person, she was a product of her environment which shielded her from the reality of the people. affluence was her problem.
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN, that and the limited role of women at the time. And the stigma against foreigners being a rotted little cherry on top
@@NIGHTGUYRYANActually the court gossip against her was so bad that she was most likely influenced to over spend because when she was wearing something simple they mocked her. When she wore something extravagant and expected for a Queen they mocked her. Everyone was basically against her except maybe her husband and kids.
@@bmona7550 Correct, she actually spent way less then previous French queens and trying to convince the French nobles to spend less money but of course that didn’t work out. And they told her she’s queen her job is to be the symbol of the French monarchy = looking so rich that no one can deny that God chose then to rule France.
She cared about her own children, but not at all for the children of the citizens of France, so she did have a profound lack of empathy. I guess that's what happens when you're told your entire life that you're inherently superior with divine right to rule
Marie Antoinette was a sheltered girl with very little say in her fate from a very early age. Really, she rather a tragic case on all fronts
yeah, she was just along for the ride. its unfortunate how things went, but not surprising considering how poorly her husband was doing as king
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN, who was a byproduct of the overcentralization of the French Monarchy
Marie was a very kind mother. She physically fought guards who tried to take her son away from her and doted on her children. Also, she adopted four children which meant half of her kids were adopted. Her daughter Sophie Helene Beatrice died before her first birthday and when she was trying to be consoled she said, " don't forget she would have been my friend".😢
Okay, but can we talk about how sweet and kind looks Marie Antoinette in this video? Her animated version is just adorable!
Marie Antoinette's story is a classic example of how when a nation is undergoing financial and social turmoil, it's leaders and citizens will choose to scapegoat the conspicuous immigrant. Thus it was with the Apostles in Rome, Greece and elsewhere, the Roma during the Spanish Inquisition, the German Jews after WWI, Japanese Americans during WWII and so it is still everywhere in the world.
German-Americans in both world wars...
@@tylerbozinovski427 It was mostly the Japanese. If you look at Walt Disney’s WW2 propaganda cartoons, the attacks against the Japanese were way more vehement than the Germans or the Italians (as the Americans were at war with them in the Pacific).
@@thenablade858 I get your point, but you seem to be forgetting about the German-Americans who under pressure decided to Anglicise their names and abandon their roots en-masse (so as to avoid discrimination), and also about the lack of an apology by the White House to German-Americans interned during both of the world wars, unlike with Italian-Americans and Japanese-Americans in only the second of these wars.
One thing few people mention is that when she was presented with an enslaved child from Senegal who was expected to become her servant, she immediately adopted him and had him baptised as Jean Amilcar. She then funded his education until she physically could not. For the standards of the time, she treated people of colour far better than others did at court, especially Madame Du Barry, who made her Indian servant perform as an African savage for her own entertainment.
There’s actually a fantastic movie about Marie Antoinette that came out in 2006 that was directed by Sofia Coppola. While some of the historical facts are slightly stretched, I think it really captures who Antoinette REALLY was.
She was just a young teenager thrust into a powerful position. Wasn't her fault tbh
@@dangerislanderthe french people were also thrown into a bad situation that wasnt their fault.
@@dangerislanderShe wasn't a naive person, and was trained on how to be a queen as the other hapsburg princesses were, however, she didn't have much power. The Queen in France held little power
That movie portrayed her as a brat who slept around and had extravagant parties.
@@LumosnightSo, pretty much what everyone accuses her of being?
Execution was way too harsh for her. Even if her opinions were lame
We can say that today, however back then when the concept of revolution was young and fledgling, even the slightest threat or symbol to their power was (in their eyes), a threat to their revolution. So they basically went on a crusade to eliminate anything and everything associated to the monarchy.
@@sassenspeyghel4155 And then said extremist ended up losing and bringing back the monarchy after Napoleon lost
@ZOCCOK And then you gets Robesperre
She was literally a treasonous traitor but okay
that's why Mao Zedong's decision to not execute China's last emperor but to turn him into a perfect example of a communist citizen was so genius
Vlad the Impaler would be a good topic for this series Throughout the world he’s remembered as a bloodthirsty, cruel tyrant, and the inspiration for Dracula, but in his native Romania he’s a highly regarded hero
Yeah i want them to make a history vs Vlad the impaler
You’d think ar least Armenians would like him since he fought Ottoman Turks.
I love these “History vs. “ episodes. I’m glad there is a recent update, and debating a famous queen in European history. It’s interesting that the defendant didn’t mention her earlier years as an Austrian princess and the Dauphine in more detail; she was a pretty decent character then. She was seen as a charming and brilliant teenager, but just frivolous in mind; like modern teenagers, she preferred attending social gatherings over studying. But she also had strong morals and stood by them like her mother, hence her clash with Madame du Barry in court.
But Marie Antoinette eventually discarded many expensive dresses and tried to making dressing simple more fashionable
@@night6724 And got scorned by it too.
A child bride made Queen consort of France. What a perfect scapegoat
And she was Austrian, so even better.
Erm both were children
That's politics for you, pin the blame on one group, person, or economic system and say you'll be better than that.
Her husband was literally only one year older than her.
@@P.eac.hWho still should have had a better understanding of France since he was literally born there.
Being a symbol is a heavy burden, one can end up being seen as a savior or a demon depending on things out of one's control. The fact we are still discussing her faith say's it all.
All in all, she seems pretty normal as far as Queens went, she just lived during a period when the concept of monarchy was questioned, which changes her context as a historical figure. Nobody gives a flying fig about the hundreds of other historical queens who may or may not have spent lavishly or given bad foreign policy advice.
Always love to see new videos in this series. I’d love to see a video on Margaret of Anjou, Lancastrian queen of England during the Wars of the Roses, whose reputation and image is still rather mixed even though more recent historians have started to re-examine her role and character.
Oh thank god. I’ve been wanting this series AND a video on Marie Antoinette.
"And can even the powerful be victims of circumstance?" Certified Pu-yi moment
This just reminds me of Imelda Marcos but she's worse. She openly admits to being a wasteful first lady and admits to being the reason of the decisions of his husband (a dictator of a president). She's not even a queen yet acts like one. The biggest problem is that the people see them as a power couple in politics. They'd deny the atrocious crimes of the Marcoses and call them the best leaders. She's still alive today with her son being the new president who plans to bury his father in the National Heroes Cemetery. It sickens and disgusts me how people are easily fooled with corrupt politicians. Sad.
Corazon Aquino was ten times the president Ferdinand Marcos ever was!
The guys who snubbed the Beatles
Nah the fact that Marcos is president today is proof that the Filipino people no longer believe that false narrative that was perpetuated by their enemies.
They're all corrupt because of a bad, outdated system of ours.
His father is already buried in the National Heroes' Cemetery. He's been there for several years now even before the son became the new president. Get all your facts straigjht if you want to champion the "truth". Otherwise, you're just as misniformed as the ones you call victims of fake news.
Marie Antoinette: Hey my hair is a boat I'm not making that up. Her hair really was a boat - oversimplified, French Revolution
It was to show support for the American Revolution
Watched the video this morning
I love overslimplofie
@Newdivide - It was in support of the French Navy and was a wig, of course.
@@MossyMozartoh well thats not as fun or ironic, but i agree it would have been too perfect to have a symbol of revolution on her head only for her to then lose her head in revolution. how poetic, but probably too on the nose to actually be real.😂
I feel so bad for Marie Antoniette. She was too harshly hated for something she had no power over and couldn't fix things she with people who were not listening to her. She may have made some flaws but she was better than a whole lot of people
What a poor, powerless... monarch?
She didn't get the proper education. She is only good at art, music, entertainments and fashion.
@@user-pq4fc1mc7q She was a queen, she didn't have nearly as much power as her husband, the king. She basically had no political power.
@@aspannas "queen... basically no political power" do you even hear yourselves. In medieval times the queen was the most powerful piece on the chessboard, look how far we've come today they're pathetic and awarded no agency. I bet you stick up for Caroline Bryant
@@user-pq4fc1mc7q *A FEMALE Monarch They don't have much say in anything, actually. Basically her role for the majority of the time: "Smile and wave boys, smile and wave"
For any interested, there is a fantastic manga about the French Revolution and many of the things leading up to it, told through the lens of the executioner of Paris and his family. It’s extremely gory and highly stylized/sensationalized, but the perspectives of the author and the way they tell the stories of real people is fascinating. My favorite plot point is that a large part of the tipping point leading up to the revolt is the barbarism the public sees in public displays of execution and torture. The story starts with the young main character (who is the man who beheaded Louie XVI) learning the trade from his father. In those days the king is an unrivaled god in the eyes of the people of France, but by the time he’s a grown man teaching his own children, the people of France are disillusioned and foaming at the mouth for change. The manga is “Innocent” by Sakamoto Shinichi.
oh wow! i'll check this out! really fascinating stuff, glad you recommended it!
Don't forget the rose of Versailles. The author was praised by the French government because of how accurate it was.
Innocent is amazing honestly. It has some of the most beautifull pages of manga that i have ever seen, and its full of incredible moments and Characters
That's my favorite manga! It's incredible!
Thank you soo much for the recommendation! I'll definitely check it out.
honestly much of the hate she faced and still faces is just badly concealed mysogny
The quote "Let them eat cake" wasnt fabricated by her enemies, but by a philosopher as an autobiography. And by the time he wrote it, it didnt line up with Marie's time in France. She was 9 years old when that infamous quote was coined and she had NEVER been to France at that time
The story is a fabrication, not the Rosseau quote. That’s what they mean.
Marie Antoinette was wrongfully slandered tbh, I do feel bad for her.
We will always support this channel. They're the best at everything.
the animation team really needs an applause
It's sad, isn't it? How many people just jump at the chance to make someone out to be a villain. And how long history will hold to that view 😟
except she want a good person, she was slandered but it doesn’t change the fact she was an absolute monarchist
All monarchs are villains
@@JEkglwstill, I would prefer a monarch over a politician
@@mellmellody Nobody says that, mate. It's just that the hate directed to her is disproportionately more than to others, and that is an interesting thing to acknowledge.
@@interferenzbrille_2542this thread is literally filled with comments saying "poor marie antoinette" - where are you getting that most people throw hate at her??? name a movie or show or book that paints her in a bad light? its all defending her. the only people that threw hate at her were the french people and they had every right to be angry. id agree that her husband was responsible and she was a royal baby maker expected to behave and produce an heir and thats it! it wasnt her fault, but its incorrect to make it assume like the last 100 years havent been spent attempting to make a martyr of her despite the fact that she was part of a criminally inept regime that left no other choices than exile or execution for the french people. id argue she isnt relevant to the story and the only reason she is paraded around as a victim of the revolution is because she is the most sympathetic character of the story despite being utterly lacking in her own agency for good or for bad.
Under a very drastic different background, Marie Antoinette could have been the princess Diana of France.
barf
she was much simpler than Diana. if she had behaved like Diana and made herself the center of attentions up close (which she could, because anyone who was close to her and knew her even for a few months, was ready to die for her) things would've been different
Winston Churchill would be a great subject for a "History on Trial" episode
What I like about this series is that (Most of them) leave you on the balance of trying to figure out who if anyone is the guilty party. And the judge who usually has the final word, always clinches it with a sentence that shows that things are more paradoxical than they seem.
Her own "private chateau" near Versailles is essentially a house smaller than many modern private mentions. It's not nearly as luxury as Versailles, the rooms are very small and the reason she had it was exactly because she wanted to live a simpler life than that in the official king's residence.
I've heard it was more of a vacation home than a day to day residence
I think Marie should’ve just been confined to house arrest. The revolutionary government was just too quick to judge her guilty. PS I’m hold out for History vs… Richard Lionheart Alexander the Great Pericles Leonidas Oda Nobunaga Andrew Carnegie John D Rockefeller Walt Disney
Doubtful. Marie Antoinette is Austrian and by the time she was executed in 1793 her home country of Austria has been at war with the First French Republic since 1791. Her own nationality doomed her to the guillotine along with their aborted escape to the French border. The French, already anti-Austrian by national character, would not let an enemy foreigner related to a deposed king live another minute longer...
She was pretty much under house arrest but still found ways to leak important military secrets during the war
Maybe they have to get rid of her because of her relation to the Austrian Monarch. Someone on this comment section has pointed out that the Austrian King (I believe he was her brother) could use this opportunity to take control of France and put her husband/son back into power. Or they want to use her as a scapegoat, a convenient symbol like this video had said, to gather support and to justify their new regime
What about all the children she adopted or helped raise? That would have been an interesting discussion point.
What a wonderful treat after work, always enjoy this series!. As a lawyer.and history buff, I really appreciate how you present both sides and raise valuable questions. Marie Antoinette is certainly a fascinating figure. She really shows all the contradictions of a queen consort. Look forward to seeing more History v. videos.
Whether you like her or hate her, can we all agree that Marie Antoinette is overrated? I mean as a history buff, she strikes me as someone who barely had any agency to speak of, especially when compared to women like Cleopatra, Catherine the Great, Elizabeth I, and Joan of Arc, and that's just to name a few.
No we cannot
@jackjones4824she could’ve been the most egalitarian person on the face of the earth, lived in a poor house, and donated every cent she had and there was nothing she or anyone in France could’ve done to get France out of its financial hole Besides taxes their total defeat in the 7 years where they lost basically all their colonies and most of their working age men, they were kinda screwed regardless
Most women in history did not have much agency. We can’t just exclude them.
right - she was neither a victim or a villain. she was just there.
I honestly never understood why Marie Antoinette was so famously scandalized
I love this series by Ted Ed. I can't wait on who they will put on trial next!
Reading about her, I look at Marie Antionette in a more sympathetic light. She really was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This is one of the best series on this channel! Glad to see it back, and going there's more to come!
It’s amazing how the figure of Marie Antoinette has change so drastically in latter decades, once a hate historical figure, nowadays she’s the center of attention of Versailles, she’s probably the most well know royal figure in French history.
I only recently came to notice Marie Antoinette after the exhibit in Japan about her, they hired the singer Aimer to sing a song about the young lady, "marie". Surely romanticized, but Aimer took a moment to reflect on the kind of life such a young girl had to live.
The embodiment of “well-behaved women barely make history.” 👑
Well behaved women seldom make history
What history did she make? That of doing nothing? If she didn't want to be well behaved she should've joined the executors against all the royals that's what she should have done
she's actually the embodiment of nepotism with no merit. she was actually quite well behaved considering she was a queen and it would have been required of her to behave. the french people didnt like her, but dont act like she made history by being a rebel 😂
She was a rich teenage girl who loved having fun and shopping, then a young queen uneducated about politics who was scapegoated by nearly everyone around her. She was never “badly behaved.”
@@leeh4669 Yes, she enjoyed shopping and having an extravagant lifestyle at the cost of everyone else. That's the problem.
So glad to see another video of history on trial, thank you!
I never imagined they would actually do this video after so many years 😭
I’m hoping for History vs General Douglas McAuthur next. Some people regard him as one of the best USS generals, while others say he is incompetent and egotistical.
I’m also hoping for History vs. Grant. Let’s wait a whole century before doing History vs. Trump…
@@BenHopkins1000 Although Trump was far from being a great president, I think he had some bright ideas, like bringing manulfacture back to his country, closing the border. His first term didn't go too well considering the trade war and the horrible covid response. This time though, he made some better plans while trying to run for president, like trying to end homelessness, and building new cities, I think he would be a good advisor.
@@luonggiaphat7946manufacture back to the USA!? Delusional when American labor is the most expensive in the world.
@@DylanDkoh Cheap cost for products would be a heavy cost for this to work, but from Trump’s perspective, it could be an advantage in the long run. By manufacturing many of your industrial goods rather than letting your own rival do it for you, you still have powerful industrial capabilities and is less dependent on your enemy.
Actually, France’s finances were ruined before Louis XVI took the throne. The last time the country had a balanced budget (no surplus) was in the middle of the reign of Louis’s predecessor and grandfather, Louis XV. He also spent more frivolous then either Louis XVI or Marie Antoinette, as he heaped sums of money onto mistresses, while his grandson remained faithful. One should also note the highest court spender during Louis XVI’s reign was not his wife, but the King’s brother Charles Philippe, Count of Artois (the future King Charles X)
Yeah you are right 👍👍 the last time ancien regime france had surplus was during the regency of cardinal fleury !! France during the era of louis xiii, xiv and xv have 3 cardinal who ruled as statesmen when the kings still in minority ( cardinal richeleu , cardinal mazarin and cardinal fleury )
Nobody said otherwise.
‘Let them eat cake’ was actually made up. She didn’t say that, I think anyone who has common sense with what’s going on with France wouldn’t say that.
Its great to see another History Vs videos, this is an icing on the cake
Not gonna lie. I played Time Princess which consist of the story of Queen Marie Antoinette, and I say that no matter which option I choose, be it good or bad, the people of France always ridicule the queen. It was sad that the story ended up beheading the queen for no apparent reasons, other to prove what Revolution can do.
I'm glad they have more of these episodes.
Love these history on trial vids. Easily my favorite thing you guys produce
I don't even have words to describe how much I love this serie, maybe only the demon of reason one is on pair. You know what? I just love ted-ed
Marie was a child and she had no idea what was going on and the French court was nuts before she came there
Marie spoke French though. She could figure it out.
The thing is: she was not properly prepared for the French court’s rules of etiquette and behaviors as established by previous monarchs; they were likely rather weird to her compared to her understanding of her own court’s rules; as she was not the first choice for the marriage, she was not given the head start training her sisters received on how to navigate these rules, and the French nobility judged harshly, especially considering her age and being foreign to the court
She wasn’t ‘a child’ by the time the French Revolution happened.
Been waiting for this. Thanks ❤
This is one of the best channels ever, loved this!
Given how the "History vs." series has already done a video on Henry VIII and now, a queen consort, doing a video on Anne Boleyn or Catherine Howard would be pretty great, given that both of them tend to be quite polarizing figures. Especially Anne with being part of the Protestant Reformation and being the "Scandal of Christendom".
Also: She said let them eat bread, not cake, but it was interpreted as cake.
Im glad this series is back
You all are amazing.. Grateful for your talent and service... 💛💛
So glad they brought back this series! Its what got me into ted ed to start!
the real issue is that it _doesn't matter_ how benevolent or not she was. whether she spent a ton of money or none, the conclusion remains the same: monarchy is a bad system of government, and as a monarch she had an outsized impact on the people that easily lead to much negativity. these are people who have slaves for pete's sake. marie was, by all accounts, a pretty unremarkable queen, as was her king consort henry. they just happened to be the ones in power at the time when revolution caught up with them. regardless of if she was a good person or not, her role as queen was one that was untenable with what the people desired and needed. if you believe in democracy--and you should otherwise we've got some much bigger problems at hand--then you have to come to the conclusion that monarchy cannot stand. the truth is that any revolution will end with the death of the old guard. there's no way to ensure the world is able to change until the old world isn't able to come back and put things as they were. to this end, the french revolution itself was a failure in many ways. not the least of which being napoleon himself who just reinstituted monarchy with himself as the head of state(dictatorship) and rolled back not only france but many other nations in terms of social progress and freedoms(literally brought back slavery). thus the conclusion is two-fold: marie antoinette, as a queen, needed to go one way or another. but that doesn't mean that the revolution and the libels were good or just in and of themselves.
I like monarchy it's so aesthetical
It's good to see another history on trial video hope we see more keep up the good work
You should also do History vs. Anne Boleyn.
As someone who hardly paid any attention during my high school history I love these video, now I too can pretend to know about history.
It would be interesting if you put Leopold II (king from belgium) on trial.
They usually try to do controversial figures, not someone who outrighted committed genocide
Thanks for the Flawless video keep up the great work.
Omigosh i was really hoping they’d do her in this series!
Great video with a lot of balance in the narrative. In the end, she suffered for being sold as a royal wife.
I have a feeling that Marie Antonette isn’t that controversial and that this video just “put her on trail” as a way to inform us about the many important aspects of her life.
and to frame the narrative of the french revolution as " see - shes actually a victim! the french people really went too far, huh?" its nothing but an attempt by the ruling class elites to humanize the monarchy and by extension, themselves.
Thank you for getting this out i hope E15 will come soon
"She lives in lavish while her people starves!" Aint that happened in all countries around the world?
Yeah, regardless of government ideology, this always happening in time of large famine.
"So what you're saying is she was guilty of being queen?" Sums up the arguments very well
I feel bad for both King Loui and Marie Antoinette. They were both teenagers thrown into pressure and duties they weren’t ready for. Who would’ve thought a 17 and 18 year old would have poor spending habits 🙃
I don't feel bad for king Loui😁
@@deborahminter6231 He was also a victim of circumstances. The only fault he has is incompetence, which shouldn't be that big of a problem if his predecessors didn't make the country very dependent on the ruler.
Love these videos, please keep it up!
We, in Ethiopia, are facing the same circumstances France was facing then. High cost of living, very hard to afford anything and the PM is building a Palace. Who does that in this century?
Same here in Brazil
@@umalunatica I guess humans never change. Whether emperors, Kings, or "democratic leaders", one's who love power always want more ways to show their power. Its human nature to want more
Can you vote? Because in that case you cannot really say anything much, you have the power to choose
@@NoName-hg6cc We can vote in name only. It's always rigged. And the PM is a smooth talker. People are only realising what kind of leader and government we have got right now
Can you guys make history VS Henry Kissinger next? I feel that with his passing as of November 2023, he would definitely be an interesting figure to examine
Loved this series Thanks
Please keep these series alive, it is a breath of fresh air for teachers like me! 😅
Oh for goodness's sake 💀💀 My first chapter in school is about the French Revolution (NCERT 😭😭) and I was conducted a test on this topic just today annnnnd I swear to God idk how and why this particular TED-Ed video appeared on my fyp like honestly wth- (I don't usually get video suggestions related to this channel)
It’s so sad the stuff they forced her kids to say about her and she was gifted a Soave boy but she was astonished that’s they would give her a shave so she dressed him up and gave him a name
love history on trial!! such good videos
Wish we could see more of these videos! Love to see History Vs Tojo!
May I ask who is Tojo
I think Maria Antonette ,was a good person who really tried to help her people, and I think there are some accounts that she was a scapegoat and tried to use make her some spoiled, extravagant queen. In my opinion she was a very good mother devoted wife and was kind misunderstood
I think the exact political situation is too complex for use to judge without at least considerable research, but in a sort of composit of her life I think Marie was a relatively good queen. The idea that she was a sacrifice is a little silly because that's just how royal marriages worked at the time, but she was still far too young for all the responsibilities put on her and the way she handled them shows a good amount of intelligence and grace. Of course, she wasn't a great queen and there is certainly more she could have done to help, but the main things she was guilty of are being queen during the fall of the monarchy and being an easy scapegoat. France's problems were complicated and coming from all sorts of directions and in modern times we tend to forget that women in royalty often had little control over their circumstances and weren't always taught that they should or could be a voice for change. For their families the safest route to power and stability was to teach them to present themselves well and follow the lead of their husbands. That being said, queens did have considerable power over the women at court and their status as top of the monarchy was something no one could brush off. (if you want to know more I'd suggest looking into her charitable work and trying to gauge how extensive it was. also, France's involvement in the American Revolutionary War was in large part an extension of their ongoing rivalry and set of wars with England, so that's a whole other can of worms)
Don’t forget her adoptions and most of them were turned to the streets when she was arrested and executed.
@@KL-ki8dbshe adopted orphans who became orphans due to her husbands inability to lead. thats like asking for praise over adopting an orphan after you kill their parents. like what??? one boy from sengal was just given to her as a gift. like he was a pet. its really not the compliment you think it is
@@NIGHTGUYRYAN i think this is another case of a grey area or the need for more research. Things like why she did it and how she treated them would make or break the case. What I can say for certain is being turned back to the streets is better than being legitimate because if they were they'd be a threat to those who wanted the monarchy gone. Anyone with a claim to the throne has to be executed if you really want them not to ever have it because they represent the opportunity for people to either retain faith in their right to the throne or use it for their own gain. Royalty is messy and far too often really messed up