Vaxee continue their high quality mice with the Outset AX, but is this mouse better than the one that heavily inspired it (EC2)?
Shape is really important. The Outset AX does feel different, but it's extremely similar to the EC2 overall. Not quite a clone of it, but still.
For the record, it's designed by basically the same people who designed the EC2, so they're just trying to improve on their previous designs.
Anyway, you need a balance of good features in a mouse. Just because the Vaxee mouse has a flexible braided cable, better side buttons and other improvements, doesn't necessarily mean I'd choose it.
Shape is king. Meaning I'll happily use a technically worse mouse if it means I get to use a better shape.
And well ... yeah watch the video, it's only a minute long.
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Just FYI I wasn't even going to do a video on this one, but people asked why so here is why. I don't think the shape has been improved. I think it's been made worse. Like it's still good, but it's not as good ... and the fact I'd rather use the EC2-A, even with its click latency, worse cable and worse side buttons, says a lot. I don't really want to get into detail as to why I think it's worse, I'd rather focus on designing my own mice. But no, I'm not biased, I recommend the Vaxee NP-01 over the EC2, which is another Vaxee mouse. It's just the Outset AX that I don't believe is better than the EC2.
Isn't shape highly personal tho? Like for example i couldn't use your mouse while it seems to be perfect for you.
@@Terra101 He's just giving his opinion, I guess it would be useful if your tastes align with his. But yeah there's not much substance here.
I tried the outset ax and ended up returning it. there were things i liked and disliked about the mouse but the two main things were that the right mouse button made a clacking noise when clicked. I emailed support and they said it was due to the button design and that it was normal. The other reason was that i found the mouse buttons too tall. I ended up flexing my wrist back and it caused discomfort. some things i did like were the different textured mouse buttons and the gloss white coating. i also liked how its a bit shorter/rounded off at the bottom compared to the ec2. Definitely went back to my zowie ec2 after trying this mouse earlier this year (and now its hard to go back to an ec2 after using the mz1.. although i love the ec2-really amazing shape and tried and tested esports mouse). surprised you made a video for this! cheers
@@Terra101 dude rjn always was the biggest troll with his shit. he was one of the first going into detail with dimensions and some random recommendations thats why he got so popular but at the end its just super random.
Coating on the VAXEE is god mode for people with sweaty hands and EC series have no coating. This should have been mentioned.
U definitely got my attention as I have hyperhydrosis
Disagree. The coating on EC2-A is better in my opinion, tho the EC2 is different like you say
they really seem to have the glossy down, which is what i prefer as someone who has sweaty hands.
@@Eclipezz Best coating on a Zowie so far has been the EC2 Tyloo in my opinion. Its kind of a Satin finish, diferent than all previous matte or gloss Zowie mice.
@@profosist The BEST is EC eVo CL version.
i think when making it they made it to fit more unique grips like sideways contoured or where u grip more on right side than left (fron the top)
I see you haven't tested out any of the skypad mousepads yet. I would love to see that on your channel if possible?
I do better with fingertip and little claw mice in general. Easier micro-adjustments and less inertia I guess. However, I bought one of these to mess around with - and I kinda love it. The quality is A1++, coating is perfect, and the clicks are sublime. Excellent, no nonsense mouse if you like them on the chunkier side.
I bought the Outset AX... I used to have the EC2-A for years, absolute years. Love it. But it broke down on me, the right mouse button wouldn't work anymore. So I went into explore mode trying different mice. Never really settled on any more than a few months. I actually started to hate ergo mice after all this exploring. When I heard that Vaxee was run by old Zowie guys and they just released a new ergo shape similar to the EC2-A that was enough for me to be very interested. The Outset AX has made me fall back in love with ergo mice. The whole tilt my right hand to downward and having the hump further back is really what I love. It's what I needed. You didn't really go into it in this video Zy but for some of us old EC2-A guys like myself the Outset AX definitely has elevated the ergo mice design.
And Vaxee did it justice by releasing the Outset Ax Wireless!
Literally one of the best mouses out there, the best clicks, best scroll, top sensor, amazing size ratio, amazing shape and it's not a clone of ec2 at all, light the only shitty aspect of this mouse is the cable, this, np-01S paracorded and are the best mouses of 2021, for competitive gaming.
RJN I would really appreciate a reply to this as I need help. What mouse do you suggest for LONGEVITY. I am not some pro gamer that I need a good sensor. My only requirements are a sensor that don't spinout on low sens flicks and 400 dpi present. Thats it. I have used until now 2 Logitech g102 and a Steelseries rival 110. All 3 only lasted a max of 8 months before double clicking. Double clicking made me almost give up on buying serious gaming mouses. I am confused because I have used the Dragonwar ELE-G9 Thor a basic sub 10 dollar mouse whose sensor spins out at the slightest attempt of a flick. But its button lasted like 4 years. No double clicking. I play CSGO. Rn I have the viper mini...............if this don't last more than a year then...............
I personally aim and perform better with the Outset AX, but to each their own.
Me too, I actually rank it higher than both my XM1r and my GPW, the amount of mouse control that I get with the Outset AX is insane (+ I paracorded it and slightly weight reduced it to 70g). Click latency is also very good. I only wish that it was smaller
What grip do you use?
you are right, i love the shape it is 1st time after using roccat kain 122 aimo, i felt something is endgame, i got radiant in valorant in 3 weeks, insane mouse it is. rjn reviews are based on his small hands, you are right to each their own
rnj always was rng as fck with his whole recommendations stuff and random arguments. there is a reason why a whole subreddit (mousereview) hates and memes him ;)
@@axaro1738 how did u reduce the weight?
i have the gpx but i just bought the outset ax because i can only palm grip ive tried fingertip and a hybrid of claw and palm and i couldnt so i decided that palm was for me and i just cant hold my gpx in a consistent way and ive had this mouse for over 2 years because before the gpx i had the gpw but i finally decided to switch do you guys think it was a good idea or no ?
i want to ask, is it normal to hold a mouse with 4 fingers only? pinkie finger doesnt touch my mouse
Will there be a review for pulsar xlite wireless?
What mousepad is that?
Any plans for an updated mouse pad video?
Hey, Rocket just wanted to let you know your mice just came out in this country. I'm about to go to the store in 2 hours and buy it. Edit: the mouse is so great fits my hands perfectly in my hands it's so comfortable and the shape is so great I play with fingertip
Do you have any guides on how different mice switches work/ sound? I am extremely particular and am looking for a light click mouse for a MOBA and most mice I try are just too deep to click. Currently using TTC Gold on HyperX Pulsefire Haste. I have tried burst pro, s2, eca, glorious o-, mm710 and they just feel really deep and making it hard to click multiple times a second compared to my pulsefire haste which is shallow and perfect but I just hate the honeycomb.
Look up the Switch Master Sheet by Ents. The mouse shell is a big part of it too though, the Haste is just really well designed so it has almost no pre and post travel. I haven't used anything with as nice clicks either. Vaxee is really close but you'd have to solder lighter switches in.
@@2old2steak hey thanks for this! I think modding a mouse might just be the move for me.
Have you tried the Outset AX? the clicks are veryyyy light and easy to spam. way too light for me haha, but maybe you would like it
@@Eclipezz im not one for ergo mice anymore I think but perhaps I’ll look into it. Research says its like an eca2 which I used for a long time. Thanks for the rec!
@@everygame1234 your fingers just too weak
Can you introduce the best headsets for games?
Can you test the fallen f75?
Hey Can You Try Out The New Zowie S1-2 C Mouse It Came Out Recently !
What microphone do you use?
can we claw grip ec2 mice?
for an elevated pam claw grip outset is S tier, best i tried on many mice, they coming out with a mini this year so will see how that feels like might end up being end game
Hi Ninjia. My favorite mice is g305, is there any mice similar to g305 which has got a good palm support feeling out there?
Orochi v2
@@kaniday4074 second this one, orochi is similar shape and goated wireless, while being cheap af for a wireless mouse
I think you should check out the PWNAGE Symm mouse. It's a smaller, lighter and wireless S2.
who cares
@@veryinterestingpersonaliti8321 Who cares if you care?
Please review the Pulsar XLite Wireless!
will your mouse be wireless at some point ?
Can’t wait for the ec2-c review :)
I love this mouse, it's easily the best I've ever used out of the dozen or so in my collection and the dozens I've tried. Years ago I loved the EC2 but had to move on for a few reasons, the shape is still great but other mice caught up in so many ways that the aggregate of those factors became too significant. I was pretty sceptical about a few things, about the coatings, the shorter length and especially their decision to change from trigger grooves to not, but they explained their reasoning and since surely these are the best shape designers in the industry historically I was willing to give them a shot. My god I think they're right about everything, I really do. The glossy coating is great for grip, the updated matte coating feels silky yet secure. The shorter length doesn't negatively affect stability and positively helps fine control. The trigger grooves, something I'd become so accustomed to with the EC2 and so many other mice, the Vaxee guys are right, it's better to not have them. I thought click feel wouldn't matter, and click consistency across the whole button even less so, but it helps. No matter where or how you click you always feel like the button press is stable and identical. Going back to curved mouse buttons feels noticeably worse now, and when experimenting with high sensitivity (which is always the best test of whether the mouse is helping you be physically more precise, as opposed to e.g just making low sensitivity feel less inhibitive, since the latter is really just increasing your margin for error, not making YOU more accurate) I've found from slowing down footage of myself and others that button grooves are more likely to introduce slight wobble to your aim, whereas non-grooved triggers are typically more stable. I think this is because a grooved shape will have various angles around your fingers, and any force applied to anything but the exact middle will inevitably be translated partly into sideways movement, since physics. Even though I'd been using mice in the 50-70g range the weight of the Outset feels perfect, it feels like it weighs what the object should, it feels stable, I can use a higher sensitivity with it than with any previous mouse and still be precise. I'd been used to ultra flexible cables like on the XM1, but the slightly stiffer cable they went for in my setup is even closer to wireless. It's like it's stiff enough to hold itself out of the way and largely off the mousepad, but flexible enough that it doesn't create resistance. All this adds up to the feeling of a mouse that's intelligently, and deliberately put together, with understanding of each option, and the result is something that feels like a precision tool. I also much prefer the Outset to the Zygen, because a tilt grip provides a healthier and larger range of motion for the wrist, and the Zygen like all rear hump mice is not suited to a tilt grip. The rear right of the body gets in the way of that grip style. I don't think this is a comfort vs accuracy element, just preference and in some cases a matter of healthy practice. It makes complete sense to me that the history of CS is filled with famous nutty shots that were all made with versions of the EC, and this the Outset represents an understanding of why that is the case, with an improvement on the same principles. They know what they're talking about. It's not going to be the perfect mouse for someone just looking to get away with the lowest sens possible, and many of the advantages don't carry over to someone who doesn't use their wrist even slightly to aim. But your wrist and fingers are the most precise bodyparts you have, so in terms of enabling peak possible precision, something that gets the best out of them makes complete sense.
thoughts on pulsar xlite wireless/wired ?
trash
@@melzzano lol why
Best mouse ive ever bought
Just incase people watch this review and feel disheartened against this mouse, this is a dream for people with larger hands. If you are coming off a G403 or anything with similar shape this is one of the few mice that can live up to it. Highly recommended.
I know it's a clone but the pulsar xlite is a very good contender for the ec2 .. infact it's my main for many months now. Maybe you can give it a review zy!
What the quake live map at 1:23 called? Thx
Thunderstruck, classic ca map for lg whores
Zy i am quite enjoying this short format videos, you give more info than a lot of 5-10 minute reviews who keep beating around the bush before making any comparison
bro rjn literally said what he doesn't like about the mouse, and explained why he likes the ec2-a more. the video is as empty as his content
@@julianmanifan123 are you dyslexic or something? you have problems mate..
@@RF-INF dude you really think the video has something else different to offer? it's just a COMPARISON to the zowie mouse, not a 1 and a half minute REVIEW. he also says he's not making any "bias" but if you're neither deaf nor stupid, this video is VERY SUBJECTIVE.
@@julianmanifan123 Ahahahhahah yeah, thank you for making my point
@@RF-INF wtf are you talking about? THE VIDEO DOESN'T MEAN SHIT; IT'S A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME
thx for the vid. you prefer the np01 over the np01s?
You don’t use your ears?
@@veryinterestingpersonaliti8321 timestamp where he specifically says he prefers the 01 over the 01s?
are you gonna review the coolermaster mm731?
Yes
@@RocketJumpNinja msi gm41 wireless? BlessRNG also Pulsar xlite/xlite wireless/xlite superglide (but limited)
NP-01 vs NP-01S?
I own both EC2-A and Outset AX and find EC2-A to be a bit too small for me. Outset is the first mouse that I've tried that fits my hand perfectly and I've tried a lot of mice. This and the GPW are my favorite mice
Isnt the EC2-A bigger
@@ronweasly778 nah, Outset is bigger or at least the shape fills the hand more than the EC2-A does
@@spartanV48 What is your grip and do you like outset ax over superlight? or which one you like more
@@steelgrafik I have a hybrid palm/claw grip and I am a low sens player. I do prefer outset over superlight, but I do like GPW over Outset by a little. But I actually use both GPW and Outset depending on the game I am playing. For example, I use GPW for Overwatch and Outset for Halo Infinite. I like GPW because the skates give me more control over GPX skates. I like Outset because it fills my hand perfectly
@@spartanV48 Viper mini is a little bit small for me and i used ec2a before it was a little bit small for me too i use hybrid palm claw too. And im low sens too what is your hand size? I wanna choose the right mouse. I only play valorant btw.
Yo RJN! What about some testing on new wireless mice? Model D Wireless Xlite wireless Ik there is another one but I don't remember the name. I only listen to your tests cuz you know best, I need ur honest opinion and testings ;) Model D is best shape for me but idk what to get...
great video
You should do the MSI GM41 Wireless next
is there a shape difference between ec2a and ec2?
no
Yeah the EC2 is more modern than the EC2-A. So lower click latency on the EC2 and better sensor too.
Nice :)
Was just debating getting this mouse.
Its better than EC2 I'm telling you
I love my outset mouse with my outset custom mousepad. But i only use it for cs go. For everything else i use endgame xm1.
MORE NINJUTSO MICE!! specifically the ninjutso katana ultralight
I bought both of the vaxee mice. I ended up giving them both away and sticking with my ec2a. I still need to give the ec3 a try.
Have you gotten the ec3 yet? How are you finding it if so
What did you end up doing? I got the razer deathadder v3 it’s shape is pretty similar to ec2 and very low weight. Lot of former ec2 cs guys switching to deathadder. V3
@@Midclimb I stuck with my ec2
@@paoloamparo get the razer deathadder v3 its just like the ec shape and low weight
@@Midclimb thanks for the heads up. I’ll definitely check it out. My brother in law bought me the ec3, which is a smaller and lighter version of the ec2. My hands are too big for it, and makes my hands cramp but I’ll check out the death adder
It's all individual. My aim and consistency with Outset AX is way better than with EC2/EC3 and with G Pro X Superlight. But my Outset AX is a bit modded, changed default switches to blue shell pink dot 80m. And changed defaut cable to slimcord cable.
Do u recommed me to put blue shell dot?
@@SantinoCuba If you can do this. But I recommend you to try stock switches. They are good too.
you should do a video on ali express mice with good pwm sensors theres alot of like 20 dollar mice that are really good for a smaller budget with graphics cards costing as much as a small car might be a good thing
He doesn't because it's hard to see the defect rates from knock-off mice and vouch for them. At that point just wait for sales.
Doesn't mean the Outset AX don't even "beat" the EC2-A because of you're experience and likings. I don't know this video isn't informative at all just talking about what you like and don't. Honestly nobody cares "only" about you're perferences. The shape is different and maybe try explaining for which grip and handsizes it could excell and work very well. I'm sure you can hybrid claw this mouse better looking at the shape then the EC2. Not only the bottun height, but the hump and the slope down towards the right side is different. Even those small difference can change the mouse alot in my opinion.
That’s RJN rn. LUL
thats rjn thinking he knows best while beeing the most casual quake live player ever :D he doesnt even realise that vaxee is focusing on the cs pro scene. the outset is an absolute beast when it comes to stable aim and having super consistent horizontal movements but rjn is so smart he writes novels now :D
keep it up, I actually like the new format change. Maybe throw in a sensor test and it would be even better.
Glad to hear it! But sensor tests are basically redundant unless it's a new sensor or there's a problem with it.
@@RocketJumpNinja ah okay makes sense. I guess also there hasn't been any companies implementing a sensor in a bad way from what I have seen lately so that's just where I am coming from.
I WISH YOUD DO FULL REVIEWS AGAIN THESES VIDEOS MAKE THE COMMUNITY SAD.
I use both and for me the vaxee is better
Loving these shorter videos man. Not every mouse needs a long review.
It’s weird to even say “there’s no bias” during a subjective review… it makes it sound deceitful in a weird way.
zywoo > rjn
+1
Wish it was wireless
Just something about the zowie shape 🤷♂️ just unbeatable shapes.
not that looks mean anything on mice, but damn son who took a shovel to this mouses face?
Rocket jump ninja has some issues... You are not a blank state which variable doesnt seep into you bruh. I aimed worse therefore this mouse is bad. Like what???
I don't want to seem like a hater. But I feel like this channel doesn't have new content anymore. Just some quick, superficial comments on mice
Yeah I made a video explaining what I was doing ... no longer doing full reviews (unless someone releases something genuinely amazing I guess). I'm busy designing new mice, working on new types of videos, new music and also most importantly finally rewriting my first novel so I can release it again. Apologies for leaving the review scene, but it was getting a bit stale anyway. So now I'm just doing quick vids to keep the top mice and search list updated on my website.
I have the model o, but I think I would prefer a different shape
And a different company.
@@RocketJumpNinja gud one lmao
@@RocketJumpNinja I think so yeah, I am thinking about the endgame xm1r
@@RocketJumpNinja why?
@@rarriwhaa notoriously bad qc issues and overall build quality
"I aimed better with the EC2" Based solely off 1v1 results in Quake??
Mainly 1v1 in Quake as it's the best way of testing aim, yeah. I'm surprised you find that surprising, do you have a suggestion for a better test?
@@RocketJumpNinja Maybe across other games with different styles of aiming, or aim trainers. But overall your "aim" is kind of impossible to measure as there are so many things factoring in.
Yeah that's where my experience comes in ... after 20 years playing the one game against the same people, I have a really good sense of what's going on (if I'm playing badly, if they're playing well, if I need a different sensitivity on the day, etc). Still not perfect, but that's part of why I was making these videos ... I could give people a better idea of what's going to be right for them. I've tried mice in different games with different aim styles but I still find other than recoil control (which is arguably not really "aiming"), Quake is the game that tests aim the best ... combine that with the fact I have so much experience in the game and with the same people, it really minimizes the variables. Speaking of variables, I also live a pretty consistent life and monitor my sleep and mindset, and I've tested so many mice now that I usually have a pretty good idea of what mice will be good for what. And I don't have a bias. If I was biased, I would've chosen the Vaxee mouse as I'm closer to those guys than Zowie (I don't know anyone in Zowie anymore, the people I knew at Zowie made Vaxee 😅). So yeah, with all that in mind, I don't think this is a better shape than the EC2. However, I do think the Vaxee NP-01 is better than both. Annnnnd all that said, you still have to figure out what's right for you, as this is just based on my performance in game and my overall experience. Hope that explains where I'm coming from with these thoughts and tests!
@@RocketJumpNinja That did help a lot, thanks. I never said or have thought you were biased just needed that extra information I guess. I mained the EC2 for close to 3 years and am thinking of getting the new C model. But, I love my NP-01's clicks and know the AX will have the same, which will be better than the zowie. I don't care too much for the cable, as I will most likely Paracord them both. I've said this before but I wish other companies had something like the Zowie testing kit. Or even sending a dummy model just to feel the shape, for $10-20. I meant no disrespect Zy, keep pumping out the reviews, and Mice! I hope we get an ergo mouse from your brain some day. Take care
All good, didn't take it as disrespect or anything, just wanted to elaborate because it's actually pretty interesting how all this came about. On the note of test kits ... they're great and all, but I've actually found until you use the mouse in game, you still won't know if it's for you. When choosing a mouse, I actually find it better to watch reviews by someone who can compare them in game. And yeah would love to create another mouse, would make it even more ergo next design, so we'll see how things go!
Hi guys, what do you think of the gprox superlight compared to this mouse? please give me your opinions! :)
completely different shape, can't really compare them tbh
i know yall aussies call ketchup "tomato sauce"
You guys know I said "catch ya" right?
I’m convinced you and optimum tech are the same person
Kind of an unpopular opinion, but to each their own.
Zywoo > Rjn
AX 1000% better than the Ec2 palm poker
ketchup
this dude literally stalled the editing for the video for months just to upload a minute and a half of it
yo
Totaly disagree
Ec2c not a😒
Nah the point is I'd still choose an EC2-A over the Outset AX.
I don't understand why you share these "I aimed better with the...(mouse)-Quake-Live-stats". It's just the most subjective info you can share and therefore worthless IMO. Not a big problem overall because i just don't listen to those parts but i ask myself why it's in there to begin with.
Because if you want specs, go read the website. If you want an opinion from someone who has been playing Quake for almost 23 years and has a very fine tuned understanding of what helps aim or not ... then listen to what I say. I have to explain this in a video some day because I get asked this a lot. Let me explain real quick: I have been playing an almost dead game with the SAME PEOPLE for decades. I know when I'm having an off day. I know when they're playing better than usual. I know when the servers are being weird. I am removing so many variables by playing the same thing over and over with the same people, in an aim intense game that focuses on battle (the mode is clan arena, it's basically about who can out dodge and out aim, with the three main aim styles). And I have tried all kinds of sensitivities and mice, tested so many ideas on how to improve aim, along with over 50 pads, reviewed over 150 mice. I'm also very competitive to the point I hate losing, like ever, so I have no bias, I just want to win. Maybe you shouldn't be asking why it's in my reviews, but why stuff like that isn't in others? I test mice against other similar mice to keep it fair. The competition for this mouse is the EC2, so that's what it had to beat. Actually it had to beat the others first but it didn't even beat the EC2-A in game for me so yeah, here we are. Is my opinion perfect? No. Is it worthless? I hope you don't actually believe that.
@@RocketJumpNinja I did not mean that your opinion is worthless. I meant that the part "i aimed better with the Zowie..." in addition to the scoreboard stats is worthless because even though you eliminate some randomness due to the game/gamemode you play and your ability to judge mice by now, it is not reliable info after all. I'm sure you try to be aware of the changes you mentioned like server, enemy or even your mood but it is simply not possible to overlook everything to make it less subjective. CA might help getting a "more objective" opinion on mice because nothing ever changes in the game/game mode itself (in comparison to other "reviewers" who just play some random game which recently released and changes with every patch - but let's not talk about that because it's the pure nightmare). While measurements seem to be the best way to come close to objective reality, it is indeed hard to do that regarding mice - if you want to go more in depth than just saying which sensor a mouse uses etc. ... But lets come back to the topic of todays show :) While you could obviously say that you aim better with mouse A compared to mouse B, I am pretty sure that this is just preference. But why is it worthless IMO? Because most of the time it is based on shape or the buttons of a mouse. Person A could love them and person B might hate them. So who do we listen to? Lets say person A has played games for a long time and tried a lot of mice and person B has less experience. I am almost sure that neither person A or B is trustworthy when it comes to which shape person C in the audience should get because A and B have different hands and are - different people - after all. This is quite close to the audiophile community. They mix up reliable information with subjective info all the time and the longer this mix goes on it gets harder and harder to come back to the useful facts. So long story short: I'm sure that there is some truth to the things you say about mice you prefer to other mice but i wouldn't say that it's objective enough to mention it in a video which should help others deciding which mouse to buy. I would even go further and say that it COULD even be misleading to a certain extent. Not trying to be negative towards you. I like your videos after all, but im also german, which might make my english sound too direct sometimes.
tite
the design looks awful
no ergo is better than ec2. period
I hate to do it but... "First".
and GPX is better than all 4
I love the new Outro sub like sure