Can you build a brand new Commodore 64 from (nearly) 100% new parts?
2022 ж. 1 Мам.
317 363 Рет қаралды
It's time! It's the big one! It's a home built Commodore 64! This episode has been sponsored by our good friends at PCBWay.com - Check out their website for all your PCB fabrication needs. pcbway.com - PCBs for as little as $5!
Also check out PCBWay's shared projects!
www.pcbway.com/project/sharep...
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
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References
github.com/SukkoPera/OpenC64Cart
www.pictorial64.com/index.htm
www.pcbway.com/project/sharep...
retro8bitshop.com/product/com...
github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-V...
As far as I know, there are modern replacements for nearly all of the Commodore custom chips now. You may want to look into seeking them out for a later video.
Already have some on order but they didn't arrive in time for this video - they'll be in the next episode :)
This would be a fun video
@@TheRetroShack Looking forward to that! I have my doubts that anyone could make a 100% compatible VIC-II clone* what with all the weird timing bugs that the whole demoscene and plenty of games rely on, but it's not something I've been following recently so I hope to be pleasantly surprised :-). *An ARM chip running a VIC-II emulator in software doesn't count! 🙂
@@djcsdy2 it "just" a matter of thorough debugging. regarding these timing issues, it is possible to write software that exactly constructs these corner cases. usually it has something to do with ending or starting a line or writing into a sprite register shortly around the time where the sprite is displayed. it is not magic but thorough work and trying to find all corner cases. you have all the registers and have to find out the time where writing to the register results in an update. one example: changing the color of a sprite: does it work in the middle of a sprite, does it work only before the sprite is painted, what delay do you have when the first pixel in the line has already been drawn. it is a huge amount of work to write and check all these (corner) cases. but it can be done. especially when changing a lot in the VHDL code, you have to run these tests again.
@@stefanweilhartner4415 That's true, but what I was trying to get at is that there may still be unknown unknowns. It's not that long ago that demos were coming out all the time that relied on some newly discovered quirk, and emulators which previously supported every known piece of software would have to be updated to support the newly discovered behaviour. I haven't been following the scene closely in nearly ten years, so for all I know that hasn't happened for a long time, but the scene is still active and I wouldn't like to place any bets that there aren't any quirks left undiscovered. To be absolutely sure you'd have to decap a VIC-II and transcribe its design into a formal proof. As far as I know nobody has done that but I could be wrong. I have written code to exploit timing-sensitive bugs on the C64 myself (DMA Delay scrolling, etc) so I do have some idea what I'm talking about although I might be out of date! 🙂
When the silicon shortage will ease, I suggest trying to get hold of one of Randy Rossi's 'Kawari' VIC-II replacements. The work done by Randy Rossi is phenomenal. I suggest to check out his channel.
As a child of the eighties and an avid solder-boy, I drool at the thought of doing this project myself ! All those pins to solder !🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰 Loved the video,it was a great watch and very informative. Cheers!
Thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed it and you should definitely have a go!
Great to see a new c64 come to life. Would love to see a follow up where you birth a new c64 using all brand-new parts. I'm more than happy to see FPGA or any other type of substitute for parts that are no longer available.
Such warm memories of my C64! Learned machine language, raster interrupts, binary logic, etc. from that machine. Built my own line drawing and region filling routines in machine language in my mid teens. Today some icons require more RAM than was available in all of the 4 banks the C64 had.
I bought the original ZX80 kit and built it at school in my Technology class and after building it it did not work, both me and my teacher tried to problem search it without success ( we suspected a faulty Z80) so I sent it to Sinclair for repair and they sent a brand new kit back with no explanation or paperwork and about 3 weeks later my original build came back working as well, I loved that little thing!
That was very cool! I love the C-64. It was the second computer I owned as a child, and saw me into college when I finally graduated to a PC (80386-25MHz).
Making me feel old! My first pc was an 8088 :)
That is just too awesome! The Commodore 64 was one of my favorites back in the day. The graphics were far superior than anything available at the time.
First computer I learned to program. Had so many games, and had fun. Typed in programs from magazines in printed edition, and saved on the cassette, before I got the floppy disc-drive. Back then, copying games was simply to have a twodeck, press play on one and record on the other.
Thanks very much - glad you enjoyed it!
@@NorseGraphic I typed in many Jim Butterfield programs from Compute! magazine. Learned a lot from that guy. He passed 6/29/2007 at age 71.
I’m a C64 guy but I have to disagree, the spectrum had far superior high res graphics and better 3D , the 64 had console style graphics and everything was a bit brown , they looked better on first viewings , but sometimes less colours is better,just look at the gameboy.
@@billyoung8118 I loved getting Compute! magazine every month and spending a little time entering in the programs line by line then saving it to the data cassette! 🤣
I always get a little tingle when I see a C64 boot up, 8 years of my life back in the 80ies.
Great project - When I did mine I used a SixtyClone 250466 as this rev uses the original bread bin SID and VIC-II but benefits from having only the two RAM ICs. With the same aim as using as many new parts as possible I also used the c0pperdragon RF board which gives a much improved video out, ARMSID and GAL based PLA - I also put in a SaRuMan static RAM board and Tolb 8701 replacement, and burnt my own ROM chips for Basic, Kernal and Char. The CPU, CIAs and VIC-II were all salvaged parts as there were no other choices.
The plan was to use more homebrew chips but some aren’t available yet as you say, and the kernel and char roms I ordered didn’t turn up in time so they’ll be in the next episode :)
Sounds much like my SixtyClone. But I went for a RetroTink instead. I also managed to get hands on a NOS modulator. So mine have a near flawless video output. Especially with the Rev5 VIC-II.
Awesome job! Your soldering skills are top class. :D Really satisfying to watch.
Thank you very much!
I'm enjoying this kind of content. I've added a Floppy Drive controller to my Omega, which, other than getting screwed with some fake ICs, was an easy build.
Great work! Interesting notes regarding Rev B and differences. I'll update the github repo for this pcb project and mention it 👍
Was sent here by Hackaday. Thoroughly enjoyed the laid-back delivery and the camera closeups! At first I thought I’d basically have already seen it from other C64 and Amiga build videos, but I was wrong, you put your own spin on it! I reckon you might have a new subscriber :)
Thanks and welcome aboard (hopefully!) Glad you enjoyed the video and good to know that Hackaday had picked up on it :)
It`s been a very long time since I seen such clean soldiering tighty job, well done. Bring back old memories, my first C64 got it when I was 14 miss those days.
Cool build! I can almost smell the solder smoke. Greetings from Missouri, USA
I loved my C64. I still have it along with the 1541 5 1/4" floppy drive and original RCA XL100 tv (14") I used as a monitor! All still fully functional. Had lots of fun with it! :) Just have relearn GW Basic to get it functional!
I loved the 64 - for me the best part about it was the Parallel port that was easily accessed via very simple peek and Poke commands.
I enjoyed a lot seeing you putting it together, as I would never dare doing it!
It always makes me smile when my PLA20V8 brings another C64 to life!
It's working a treat! Nice job :) :)
Thanks for the video. It was nail biting at times. I am glad you figure out what was wrong with the build. Happens to the best of us!
Cool vid, thank you for making and sharing
You made my day better today with this amazing project! Thank you!
You are so welcome!
You've inspired me to take up projects in my 40's....not long to wait 😆
Glad to have kickstarted another tinkerer into action!
Great project and great work. I'd love to see you take this to 100% if you can!
That’s the long term plan :) Thanks for watching :)
Brings back so many memories as I worked for a company from 97-2007 that developed everything in the 80’s. It all worked and reliable. Things changed with digital audio and allowed any schmuck that programmed to buy stuff off the shelf. The death of analog computer audio distribution.
Great video, there is something quite magical about building your own C64 board! I've recently put together an 250466 SixtyClone board (in glorious purple!) and I too used the Retro8BITshop kit of parts. My build uses a few replica parts like a J-PLA, NanoSwinSID, a SauRuMan64 RAM module and a TEBL Modulator Replacement PCB. For my ROM chips I am using CornBit V2 from BackBit. I also went for a RECOM Switching 5V regulator in place of the 7805, it runs a lot cooler... no need for a heatsink. My original BreadBin machine uses the less common KU-14194HB board of which Bwack has also made a replica.
Just great to see that two tone blue screen eventually burst in to life. This was the first computer I ever "owned" (parents bought it for me of course). I had an Atari 2600 before that but I'd call that a console rather than a computer now but at that time it was all classed as "computers". I'd seen and played with a ZX-81 of my cousins before that. Great memories. Thanks so much.
Thanks Matthew - so glad you enjoyed it. Got an enterprising episode coming up soon thanks to you ;)
@@TheRetroShack ;-)
@@matthewwright2598 Actually you are correct. The Atari 2600 was labeled as "VCS" (Video Computer System)...at least the ones I had were labeled that way. There was also a cartridge for the 2600 that had BASIC and turned the 2600 into (sort of) a programmable system. It came with a special keyboard type controller. The BASIC program was pretty much useless (couldn't save anything, and it was VERY limited), but I still had a lot of fun with it.
Got a 64C when I was 5 years old and have been hooked on computers(vintage and modern, just flat out skint myself upgrading my graphics card when the prices tumbled back to relative normalcy last week) ever since. My 64 come with a cartridge of Fiendish Freddy's, Flimbo's Quest, Klax and some football game. Spent the next 5 years spent all my pocket money on a new tape every week or so until I upgraded to an A1200. I still have the machine and it still works, but the power supply is looking well dodgy so I leave enjoying my youth to a Raspberry Pi 4 these days. Some of my personal favourites are Wizball, Mayhem in Monsterland, Double Dragon 2(NOT the original, or the third game, which while almost arcade perfect, was terrible in arcades, too), Sensitive, P.P. Hammer and Exile.
Thanks for sharing and glad you enjoyed it :)
Good built, always great to see a retro computer come to life whether it is a repaired one or a new built. One question; what version is that diagnostic software you are using? It looks different.
I was just wondering if it's possible to do this kind of thing, building new old computers. It's scarry how well the algorithm works, but I'm glad I found your channel
I'm glad you found us too :)
First of all. You have a new subscriber. Thank you algorithm. Secondly.. is something like this possible for say... An Amiga?
@@Hawkwreak It is, and I’ll be tackling one in a later episode :)
@@TheRetroShack I should clarify... This is possible with say. The a1200??
top content, thanks for this. at 8:01 the thought occurred "I would mount the resistors and run them continuously for a week to show any failure over longer time periods then take only the passing chips, or stop bothering to test them if none of them fail after all." I wonder if running them an hour a day versus nonstop would affect them? soldering them straight on works as long as it's quick enough to make a new one if it fails.
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it! I'm too impatient for multi-day soak tests :) :) :)
incredible stuff! crazy to think about how these were designed originally!
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it!
3D printed pieces are fine if you take the time to prep and finish. I sculpt/model up ideas, figures, diorama pieces, etc in Blender before diving into hand sculpting using the 3D piece as reference or just straight printing the pieces out either with filament or resin. Coming from doing a lot of auto body work, the newer filament printers are high enough resolution to get a smooth line new finish without a lot of prep work (basically filler into sanding, on primarily flat or straight-line shapes if printed at high resolution you can get away with 2 coats of primer/filler paint after initial sanding, first coat, wet sand, second coat, wet sand, then go for a final into paint). The only time I default to resin is if there's a lot of tucked away details making proper finishing a paint. Not to say you shouldn't prep resin prints too, they're definitely cleaner and higher resolution, but there's still room for improvement (especially drainage holes if those aren't hidden when assembled). If typically create molds with my pieces after achieving the proper surface and finally casting the final piece. Not really required for a one off, but if you're planning on doing even a limited run of figures or something it's a lot simpler to just cast them for a consistent end result over printing and finishing each (not to mention faster).
love the shape of all the old capacitors, resistors, diods etc.
Very cool to see one built brand new, and remember playing that game back in the 80s.
"C64 not working? Try replacing the CIAs!" is the part of nostalgia you'll never get with an emulator.
How very true!
Hard to believe compact disc hit the scene around the same time as this board
Even though CD players were available in the US as early as March 1983, the average $1,000 price tag made them unaffordable for most. Two years after becoming available, only 1 in 600 American consumers owned a CD player. I paid $239 for a Sony Discman in 1988. By 1991 they were putting CD players in $80 boom boxes.
Solder type or screw type D-Sub (Joystick Port) Nowadays PCBs are mass populated and leaded components are soldered in one move using a process called reflow, which is a standing wave of moltent solder that skims the bottom of the board as the board passes above. This gives all leads and pins a perfect solder. The problem however, is if you have a connector attached with screws, solder often gets into the grooves of the head or alternatively the threads if the screws are fitted the other way round. However, if you opt to fix the screws at the end of production, then solder often gets drawn between the connector and board often making it near impossible to install screws. This is circumvented with using either clipdown connectors, which fare well against the hot molten solder for the brief time it skims across the standing wave, or the solder type, which is my favourite as it offers better grounding for when you need shielding in your cable, such as in DVI or VGA or HDMI connectors. It was never introduced as a time saver, however it has given that result.
Very nice work, pleasant to watch production! Getting my own kits ASAP! :) That Dropzone is a wicked good game!!! Best Regards from Australia!
Oh this is fantastic. I really feel like wanting to put together one as well to celebrate the 40th Anniversary of the C64 by giving birth to a very very personal handcrafted C64. Simply because this was the first homecomputer i ever had the privilege to get in touch with as a kid and playing Maniac Mansion and Epyx Winter Games on it together with my father. I just HAVE to do it. Thank you for doing this and showing every step. Already had lots of fun watching you putting together that new ZX Spectrum kit (which i too wanna do at one point) and i was wondering if there would be a C64 special too considering all these alternative new-retro parts being available.
Awesome video!!!! Great work and great explainations 😃😃😃
I always enjoy this type of video (well actually, I enjoy all of your videos). Keep them coming!
Thanks Colin - glad you're enjoying it :)
Retro8bitshop is watching! And loving your shout out and work!
KMart! I used to love going to the computer/TV section. Usually, the Atari 8 bit and Commodore Vic-20 or 64 computers were being played on and you'd be relegated to "playing" with the Sinclair/Timex 1000, which no one spent much time on.
This was awesome! Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Your soldering skills must be truly amazing to have it work without any reflowing. Really lovely video.
Glad you enjoyed it! I’d say more ‘consistent’ than amazing :)
@@TheRetroShack to have consistently accurate results when soldering a PCB is a little bit amazing for people like me who mostly work on giant discreet components and the equivalent to perf-board.
@@TheRetroShack to have consistently accurate results when soldering a PCB is a little bit amazing for people like me who mostly work on giant discreet components and the equivalent to perf-board.
Love these projects, waiting until I get a little more confident before tackling one this big!
came here by accident, was not disappointed. subbed!
Nice to have you here! Thanks for the sub :)
Great work dude!
Thanks!
Interesting project, luckily I have piles of old C-64's in my attic, few C128 and even SX64's for my retirement years in less than 10 years! Yes, I have lived that 80's scene myself and those days will never get back! That nostalgia! 😃
Do you have any commodore 64 for sale? Trying to get one
NOSTALGIA!!!!! Thx so mutch for this trip down memory lane... Next stop The Attic.... Got some serious digging to do...🤣🤣🤣
Have fun!
Nice job! Had fun watching!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Really enjoyed watching this build! You have a new sub :)
I envy you very much Commodore 64 enthusiasts. I'm an "Atari XL/XE" guy and this saddens me, that Atari does not have so much interests in recreations of PCBs, modern replacement parts etc. But still. nice to know that old stuff still lives! :)
I'm wondering how far I could get into a brand new 800XL? Got my thinking cap on! :)
great show i wish i could build electrics like that might be able to repair some of the thing that have broken lately great show
This was a very good video. I know nothing about this topic, but was captivated the entire time.
Finally a video from somebody who really knows how to solder. I have seen so many videos from people who absolutely can't solder at all. Well done.
Technically snipping the leads after soldering can stress the joints. Ideally one would fit and clip the leads before soldering. I'm enjoying this vid to no end! Thanks!
Thanks, good video Do you know, where i can find parts, cases, etc for an Atari ST, or Sinclair QL .... ? ..... thanks for any info
You are a real Master in soldering! Nice work the best C64 you can have!!
Wow, thanks!
Dude. That was totally bad ass. Thank you for the video.
You’re very welcome :)
This is something else. Good luck towards 100% :)
That retro game looks like real fun, who here remembers ' Elite ', & how a docking computer was 1st on everyone's to buy list ?. I remember back in the day ( early 80's ) we got got a Texas Instruments TI994A, as my brother needed it for school as for some reason it was better than other comparable computers, maybe someone here might know ?, so I missed the whole Commodore 64 experience, still pissed about that, but I had friends who had them, so not completely in the dark, great video.
It's old school stuff like this channel that makes it's hopeful for the future of retro games as newer tech & greed force emulator's into the ash bin of history. It's also hopeful for machines like Apple, AMD and most pre-2000's machines! Thanks!!! 🤘🤗
You’re very welcome!
Lovely video! I just love that this is possible. It feels good to know that modern replacements make sure that the C64 legacy will never die.
Glad you enjoyed it - Next episode coming this Friday!
@@TheRetroShack Cool, I'm watching for sure 😊
Great video, thank you for this. How many of y'all spent hours typing in the programs from magazines? How many of y'all had a fast load cartridge and a cassette tape recorder to load your programs in? FYI fast load made it possible to press play & fast forward on the tape machine and load the program in seconds rather than minutes. Yes, I had a 1541 & a 1571 disk drive as well.
Wow, fantastic build! Retroshack rulez!
Thanks very much! Appreciate it!
Wow, great work. I am sooo soo tempted to build one of my own, rather than try and get one used on something like ebay. Just imagine the thrill of accomplishment of soldering all that yourself and getting that familiar dark blue/lt blue screen come alive!! Nice job!
Very nice I have a older revision b board as well. Got a new c64c case for it love it much slicker
Man the C64 was my first PC at age 13. When I later got my 5 1/4" disc drive I felt like god.
Because you were.
Same here, except I was about 5-6 years old. I don't think my grandmother realized that she was about to change the course of my entire life when she gave that to me :)
I was 12 and had the 1541 right away. Later I got myself an SFD-1001. Then I truly was god.
You aren't alone, same here.😊
Got to love that cassette drive!
I'd love to see a C128D kit, the one with the detached keyboard.
I'm on the hunt :)
C128DCR or bust!
Ahh those days.. And now a days... Great work :)
Thanks very much!
Good to see someone build one of bwack’s boards. I still have his KU replica board to build, so perhaps I’ll tackle that one next….
It was a pleasure to build and I'm sure you'd enjoy it!
Excelent video. Sorry for my lack of knoledge! If you put the new modulator and output your video through the commodore din super video output, is it necessary to change my vicii, i have and original c64 assy 250425. i'm trying to bring it to 2022. Then i will replace the power supply and the pla! Thanks !!!! Really thanks!
C 64 was my entry into computers, I ended up with a 128 , 1541 drive 1701 monitor, thanks for bringing back those good memories
You’re very welcome, glad you enjoyed it :)
Finally!! The Retroshack builds the best 8-bit computer of all time. 🤓 You are so close to a complete new build. If it is not out there, it is only a matter of time.
Keep watching ;)
The fact that this bread bin most likely last at least another 40 years is fantastic.
You may be able to get a "TheC64" (the big one with the life-size case and keyboard) and repurpose the case and keycaps to save getting it all custom-made. Not sure what you would do with the old internals... maybe mount the PCB in a PC tower case just to mess up expectations. :-)
Amazing project.
awesome video..thank you! Question? What do you use to connect the C64 to a monitor these days? All the flat panel screen or TV dont have the connections we used to have in the 80's hahaha Not even the Cable stud. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated....
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it. I’m using a SCART cable to connect to my TV. If you only have a HDMI socket on your TV you can get a SCART to HDMI converter. Hope that helps.
@@TheRetroShack Thank you for the tip...ordered on Amazon and it's on the way, should be here in 4 days!!! Appreciate it sir.....
This is a great video! While it is tempting to start building such a machine, there are so many things that can go wrong it is intimidating. I think we are going towards a DIY C64 but still, it requires skills which are beyond those of the average enthousiast.
I’d recommend starting with something like the RC2014 which is a smaller project but you get exactly the same buzz when it springs to life :)
Disagree, it's not beyond the attainable skill of the average enthusiast. No, not a first project, but the skills aren't unattainable for most. This isn't tiny surface mount and hot air rework stuff (not that the latter is unattainable either).
@@TEDodd The difficulty from my point of view is not the soldering etc., it is to diagnose what is wrong when you have everything complete and this is not working. In this video, even if the author is experienced, he had several issues, and solving them requires a very good knowledge of the machine, its components and potential issues.
Interesting that your GAL-PLA fitted in that turned-pin socket! my one was assembled with larger square pins so needed to redo my PLA repair with a dual-wipe socket ;)
Yep, just popped straight in :)
Nice video. I still have my C-64 and for what I can recall last time I played with it the black color was white, I really wonder what chip is faulty ..maybe I can fix it
Back in the day I had dual 5 1/4 drives. Some friends had 3.5. It would be next level awesome to have a hard drive or other storage.
Super cool trip down memory lane. Although, It was family friends who had a C64. My family had a Vic 20, which was still a blast!
Vic-20 episode coming up soon :)
Cool! What is that blue mat that you're using when soldering on with the compartments?
Anti-Static Soldering Mat, Magnetic 500℃ Heat-Resistant Magnetic Multi-Purpose Repair Mat for Soldering Guns with 1 Pcs Mobile Phone Stand www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07P5YYZKZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_7V3C4ZB12T0A6GJTBM1P?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Great video, I had a C64, 1542 II drive and 1802 monitor. Then upgraded to various Amigas. I regret selling them. Altgough dipping in price by the 90s, they are now worth their full retail cost or more. I often use emulators for nostalgia but there's nothing like real hardware.
So nice to see the C=64 again. :)
Super cool, loved it
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it :)
You can get adapters for the New WD6502 chips that are in production to work, but they can be a bit funny with some of the no listed commands. Mattias who makes the ATX 64 was working on 6510 VIC-II and 6526 CIA and had a video recently showing something, but gave no details And you have the Kawari VIC-II as I am sure you know. You also have options for new ram, video ram and colour ram depending on what model you have.
Keep an eye out for the next video coming this Friday where I speak about such things :)
I have a C64C sitting around that I haven't gotten around to checking yet. The Esc, 1, 2 and Commodore keys are broken off though, and the cables are quite crispy, so I need to do something about them...
I've got a NOS Commodore 64 in a box.. But it's awesome you can still pretty much build them.
Can you share a link to your ‘Blue-Build-Surface’ you use whilst soldering the components to your Rev.B board?
What's available: the 6502 is available as the 65C02, but the required 6510 is only available as the original C=. There are replacements for the SID and logic array. But not for the two CIA. For the video IC there might be a replacement with a raspberry pi zerro, I'm not sure. Is dynamic RAM still made in this size? The ROM can be replaced by an EEPROM, but has a slightly different pinout. But if a Raspi is already on the parts list, you can emulate it.
new to your videos, at 12:25 I was waiting for a soldering tip, then i figured the tip was to change your tip once in a while.
is it possible to have a fastload cart built into one of the ROMs? Maybe install some sort of ultimate loader that has all your carts, and disk images already inside the unit on an SDcard, while still having outward compatibility for a physical cart, printers and disk drives?
What did you put on C205 now then, at 15:09 I do see you did solder 'a' capacitor there.
My first computer was a Commodore Vic 20 because my parents could not afford the 64. That is where I learned to type, I still remember the Space Invaders inspired typing game to this day. Then I graduated to a Tandy 1000 and I thought I was in heaven.
I was an early adopter of the Vic20 and C64, I even went to several electronic schools. I owned, traded, enjoyed, played yarda yarda yarda but to me this is like building an old push lawnmower and using it. I must be wrong though, or these raw pcb's would not be produced so, I guess there is a huge rush to build and own a completely obsolete play computer. Thanks for the vid. You are very good. //ji