Installing New Smart Switches In Old Weird Homes
Electric Pro Academy - Real skills to make real money.
Synopsis:
There are plenty of videos about wiring smart switches in the pristine drywall of a new home, but what if your home is 100 years old and has had 7 previous owners with questionable repair skills, but weren’t shy about giving it a try!? As Joel is preparing his 1938 home for a full house rewire, he’s taking a brief detour in this video to install an Intermatic smart/timer switch. He’ll need to address multiple wall layers, assorted wiring types, some carpentry shortcuts, & a missing ground connection. We can’t promise that your situation is the same, but we might be able to give you some on-the-fly solutions to old problems. Is an old, smart home a “wise home”?...
Laced within the technical instruction are recommendations and points of professionalism employed by Joel in his daily operation of Jefferson Electric in Indianapolis, IN.
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EPro-To-Call:
You’ve got the tools and the willingness to solve your own electrical problem, but are held up by a couple ominous details. Rather than hiring out the whole project, get a 15-year professional electrician’s expertise directly via video or voice call to overcome your home project obstacle; EPro’s own Joel Walsman is available for any electrical question, with complete transparency & full-bodied advice for the seasoned or novice DIYer. Get the certainty of a pro’s past experience, present attention to detail, and knack for the future!
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Products We’d Recommend:
*EPRO endorses pro-level tools & materials, and receives a small commission for purchases through our links from Amazon & other affiliate programs. We’d be happy to recommend more cost-effective products for DIYers and low-frequency users if you engage with us in the comment section!
[] Honeywell Timer Switch: amzn.to/3JhUNhr
[] Intermatic Ascend Smart/Timer Switch: amzn.to/3L3JDO3
[] Klein Tools GFCI Receptacle Tester: amzn.to/34LJvD5
[] Dewalt 20V Max XR Brushless Impact Driver (DCF887): amzn.to/3IhM39C
[] Klein Tools Tapping Drill Bit Set: amzn.to/3u5x7qa
[] Klein Tools Insulated Screwdriver Set: amzn.to/3JksqPH
[] Electrical Box Extender: www.homedepot.com/p/Electrica...
National Electrical Code (NEC) referenced in this video:
Free Access Here: www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standa...
[] Grounding Receptacles [NEC 404.9(B)]
[] Flush-Mounted Electrical Enclosures In Non-Combustible Material [NEC 314.20]
[] Non-Tapping Screws In Electrical Boxes [NEC 404.10(B)]
[] Wire Color-Coding [NEC 210.5]
Outline:
0:00 - Reasoning For Automatic Lighting Control
2:40 - Electrical Pre-Test
4:15 - Wall Plate Removal & Situation Assessment
7:44 - Short-Term Grounding Solution
12:33 - Identifying Switch Conductors
14:05 - Removing The Old Switch
14:44 - Understanding The Timer Switch Wiring
16:26 - Wiring The Timer Switch
20:56 - Testing & Covering
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Jefferson Electric installs and services residential, commercial, solar, and Tesla systems in Indianapolis, IN.
www.jeffersonelectricllc.com/
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So we have had a caring carpenter and a caring electrician. If the next owner is a caring plumber I’ll make an offer on the house.
I have watched several of your videos and even though one was at least an hour, watched every second of it. I am just a guy who has always been fascinated by electrical work; if I had a second life it would be as an electrician. Your knowledge of code requirements and the reasons why are very well articulated and comprehensive. Most of all, you are not taking shots at anyone, but rather will point out code violations that frankly are far beyond the ones that I am familiar with (e.g., using wood screws to secure an electrical device rather than a machine screw) and are doing a public service by posting these videos. Most of all, for a guy brimming with knowledge and "in the field" know-how and techniques, you are humble when you say "hey, this is what the code requirement in Indianapolis is, but you should check with your local inspector for the requirements where you live". No one person knows everything. You are close, but still are decent enough to admit that you are still learning. Very glad I came across your videos, and yes I am a subscriber.
I seen your rusty linesman. Regular house distilled vinegar will work great to restore them to near when you 1st used them. Works on hand tools speed bores, etc. Make last forever. You can find videos on KZhead
This is some real world stuff that you are finding, sometimes i dont even want to open the box afraid of what i might find, great videos, keep it up!!
You taught be to be careful with existing wire and am so grateful Joel. I don’t twist wire’s anymore and use wagos. No more destroying wires every time I change something. While the cost is more, replacing a wire is far more expensive.
WAGO is the way to go.
I've had to remove smart switches from houses; the owners were 'technically challenged'. They couldn't deal with programmable thermostats either. I've made good money setting up home audio systems too.
Definitely can see lots of this happening in the future as homes change hands and a house needs 50 apps. I prefer manual timers . Not everything needs internet
This is going to be and already is somewhat of a bonanza. There is so much Chinese junk going in homes these days.
@@MM-fe9mz It’s pretty easy to set up a smart home and have everything be controlled by one app.
Joel - love your informative videos. Great stuff. Keep 'em coming. My comment about switches and manufacturers is simply this: since there are tons of products from a wide variety of manufacturers out there, I'm staying with Lutron Caseta for now. They are a trusted name and grew up in the lighting industry. Great family owned and operated company who have made their mark in dimmer technologies. They have approached everything from that foundation including their entry into the Smart Home field. There stuff is super reliable and bullet-proof. That can't be said for so many, many others who are chasing new approaches.
You're very detailed, and that is exactly what I like about your videos.
lol, back when I was doing electrical in Canada the #1 square tip was quite standard in every screwdriver set. one could go to Canadian Tire or Home Hardware and every screwdriver set would have at least a #1 and #2 square. medium and larger sets would have the #0-#3 tips. In fact the ground rod clamps I used to use were fastened to the rod and wire with a #3 square. Since coming to the US for work I haven't had to buy a Robertson tip in the last 4 years.
Lutron caseta is very consumer friendly, rock solid reliable, great customer service, and highly configurable. Want a 3 way switch, just add a remote (looks identical to switch, no wiring required). To my knowledge, it's one of the only smart solutions that doesn't require a neutral for some switches. Lutron also has more industrial / commercial lines like RA2. Only down side is that they can be pricey and don't look like conventional switches.
There are plenty of "smart switch" solutions that don't require a neutral, but you always want to use the option with the neutral if you have neutrals available.
I worked for a company on a residential condo development project. They had sticking out over a half inch from the drywall and were cutting them flush with aa saw. Also used the white conductor as a switch loop without remarking it black or red. Their excuse was that their AHJ was working off the 2008 NEC. What a bunch of hacks.
Highly recommend the Leviton Decora Smart WiFi series. They're amazing devices, and the company has added features over the past few years. Also great about support and troubleshooting, including overnighting a replacement when one of the internal relays failed in the on position (they did want me to send the broken one back so they could dissect it).
Lutron Caseta all day long! This was a great and informational video. Thanks! Lutron has the benefit of having some dimmer switches that work in homes with cheap wiring with no neutral.
9:34 I didnt even know that they made drill taps. Pretty neat that you can drill through one of those holes for the electrical junction box. Neat!
I love watching your videos, especially this series of you making changes to your house. It really gives a sense to people of real world conditions compared to videos who either are only working on very modern homes or a set so everything is set up just perfect for what the video is showing (like installing a timer switch like you are). I also live within the Indianapolis jurisdiction, so even more educational for me. As an aside, regarding your ideology of having all your external lighting automated, what are your thoughts on using motion detecting lighting controls for that type of light? I have my porch lights with just a manual switch like you have in your video, but I'm kind of on the fence around adding a timer like that so the bugs collect at my door just waiting for me to open it. Adding motion sensor will be more effort, but was just curious on your thoughts regarding their usage. Thanks for your well-made videos and keep it up!
Your right on the money with this fix- I see all the time too.
Great idea!
Don’t quote me, but I believe the old knob & tube conductors were 14 gauge but rated for 20A because they were in free air, meaning not in a sheath, so they would dissipate heat. Unfortunately most hoses of this age have added insulation, either blown-in or fiberglass, covering the wires. I’m planning on replacing as I can. I’m not sure that grounding to the Box is code compliant.
They make switches that know the sun schedule throughout the year. We have an outdoor timer light but I end up having to have it come on way early in the summer so don't have to change it through the year for winter. Then we have another outside light that's led, we just leave it on all the time since haven't ever replaced the manual switch.
10:40 With all those old wires in there, this is one situation where I'd use a green insulated wire versus bare.
The adding the box equipment ground is a possible concern. Keep in mind im making some assumptions. I am assuming you have some form of older BX,MC, or AC cable coming into the box and you are gaining continuity box to metalic cable, so your outlet tester says the equipment ground is good. However man types of older metalic cable are not approved for use as equipment ground, the metalic cable will have a low DC resistance as read with a meter or work with your tester, but the rotations of a metalic cable in AC form a higher resistance coil that will not clear a fault and cause the metal jacket to heat up and cause a fire. I have seen a similar situation to this cause a house fire.
I tried x-10, did not like them, got z-wave with a vera brain. I love it. I got motion detectors, cameras, door and smart switches. When inside opening the door turns on the light, outside motion turns on inside and outside lights. The camera records when the lights come on, the camera turns on lights if it sees motion. After 10 minutes vera turns off the lights, at 10 the lights throughout the house get turned off and at 930 in the morning. lights do not come on between 7 am and 4pm
Did you verify off cam if you picked up a good ground off the box? Many times devices are grounded to a box displaying 90v or so and plug in testers won't find fault.
What do you think about Sonoff brand? Using a small component to turn a regular switch into a smart switch?
Lutron Caseta are the best smart switches for DIY'ers. The scheduling functionality is built into the hub so the switches are a lot simpler. You can set the schedule on your phone in the Lutron app or Apple Home app.
When the wire is too short or to far back to nut or work with I recommend Ideal Spliceline 42s.
@ElectricProAcademy, @Joel Walsman - Love the videos! Thanks! Have just one hopefully simple question: Is there a similar way to install standard smart three-way switches in a box where the electrician used the neutral from the breaker box as a traveler? I have a three-way switch with the Neutrals in the box, but this is the load switch (shorts the circuit, when I connect the Neutral wire to the switch), and the line switch uses the Neutral wire as one of the Travelers! The line switch is configured in a two-gang box with another three-way switch (I would like to replace that one, too). Can I pig-tail the Line (or Neutral) wire from the adjacent switch to the Neutral for the smart switch? Thanks.
That’s a sweet smart switch
Is there a short edited version of this? Video quality is great and all. Can a 3 wire dim smart switch be safely retrofitted to old 2 wire house?
Probably. It depends. Most smart switches demand a ground, but I bet that's more CYA than anything. If you have a ground in the switch box, I'd be you're fine. If you have a neutral too, you're golden and I'd use the 4-wire version (as they're sometimes called).
This type of work is were wago lever style connectors are handy. Probably the only place I use them.
We're definitely settling into a "selective lever nut usage" appreciation. Great judgment!
Did you add a box extension?
If you have good, modern wiring and you plan to use a wire nut, the best method I've found for mixing solid and stranded conductors is via pre-twisting. To ensure the stranded conductors don't come loose the best pre-twist method I've found is to arrange the conductors in a flat line so that none overlaps the other, making sure to keep any stranded conductors toward the center of that line. Then I use a set of linesman's pliers which grips all of the wires equally and give the whole thing 1.5-2 full rotations of my pliers. Cut the un-twisted bits off and thread on the wire nut, and make as many twists and tugs as your heart desires to ensure it is all well-connected. If you want to do a quick and dirty test of mechanical connectivity, twist the wires together with linesman's pliers like above, then cut and stick them in the wire nut. Now for the fun part, or as I like or call it, "Fuck the next guy!": Find a drill socket that fits the knurling on your wire nuts. (You have already verified the wire nut is on there, right?) Stick the wire nut and the socket together, and slide your fingers a couple of inches down the wire bundle, then run the drill until the twist reaches your fingers. It is gentle enough that you won't punch through the top of the wire nut while also ensuring that nothing wiggles loose after the tug test.
Wow, that would be a crazy serious termination practice.
When will you be starting to rewire your house. Mine is also a 30s built home with solder connections
Ouch was the box fill exceeding code as well?
16:03 I don't believe an LED light uses an electronic (fluorescent) ballast. 😛
My outlet switch missing neutral and ground. But also the box is too small for my smart switch... I cant just wifi bulbs as the kitchen light have leds diodes.
Nice
They are neat they can do a lot of stuff
Just a quick question. The old wires that had a bare spot, would a little dab of liquid electrical tape be a good idea?
I (a nobody) think that's a good idea, but maybe electrical tape would be better to make sure all surfaces is insulated.
I do suggest Lutron all day. They are not a fly by night company in other word it not a small company with the Potential to go out of business . Work with all 3 smart assistant. Plus their switch’s always work and you never have a call back. On most of caseta no neutral needed.
All my light switches only have the hot in the j-box. Neutral goes direct to load. So I can’t do smart switches. Any ideas?
Smart switches that don't require a neutral.
Do you ever use Wago lever nuts
My opinions for lights is to not have them come on at dusk, unless you want them for security more security, but to have them become "active" when the sun goes down, meaning that at dusk, and dark, if they detect motion, then come on, then at dawn, not come on anymore whether they detect motion or not. So for that, two switches, dusk to dawn and motion sensor would be ideal. If there's a situation where you want the lights to come on without needing to go out there or in the day time, for whatever reason, then you would still need a manual switch. (Resuming video now) In 1938 polarized plugs weren't a thing either. When my Mother and Dad inherited my great grandpa's home, I was 5. So I was too young to know about rewiring anything. Even though it was 1981, the house was built back when there were not polarized plugs. My parents had a fit trying to plug things in. My Great Grandpa had adapters on everything. He even had those electrical extension cords that screwed into light sockets with cloth wire. Lever nuts would have really behooved you there. Prefer Wago brand just because they're not bulky. Look forward to seeing what you do when you rewire your house. I'm "SHOCKED" no pun intended, that you didn't use a box and put those connections back into the wall without a box.
In 2019, I did exactly as Joel did here for my front porch light. The light was replaced in 2016 with a better looking light and an LED bulb. The switch is a dusk/dawn switch that stays on all night, off at dawn by utilizing the longitude and your time zone and adjusts on/off every day as the seasons advance. That way, I hear it click to come on in the evening, off in the morning and I don't have to deal with it. The back porch has a photocell to turn on the lights there, and they stay on all night and go off in the morning so I just leave that switch on all the time. Came with the house and is a twin Par light that lights up a good portion of the backyard.
@@johnhpalmer6098 I HATE LED. I use haolgen wherever possible. So much better than that harsh, eye deteriorating, LED rubbish.
@@michaeljavert4635 At one time, I did too. In the early days of LED, they were not very good but have improved a tremendous amount since and now I find them more than fine. With the except of the kitchen main light and under cabinet lighting and my studio, which are either CFL/Fluouescent, the rest are LED, all soft white (3200K) and the light is more than fine. All of my 3-way bulbs are LED too.
Simply adding a grounding screw added round to the circuit because the ground in this case is provided by the metal conduits to the box? Since the box is not visible, I got this doubt
Yes.
It looks like you connected two copper wires with an aluminum wire without an anti-oxidation wire nut. No concerns?
Some older wire was tinned copper, might be the case.
@@scottapt5291 Yeah, his house tends to have a lot of BX with tinned copper. After enough of these videos we might have to have him host us for a pool party!
What happened to installing the box extender?
That sounds like a house-rewiring-time project.
Pre-twist...100%, always.
There are lots of cheaper "smart" switches which have similar capabilities for much cheaper. Most are programmable through an app on your phone, and they will do the dust-dawn thing just fine. The big thing with this switch and cheaper ones is current capacity. Cheaper switches won't go anywhere near 15A load.
After seeing that mess i dont feel too bad about the wiring in my mobile home (all outlets and switches are decora and use rv style connections (wire is shoved between sharp slits and there is no outlet box its all self contained in the outlet/switch itself), switches dont have a neutral and because of said wiring method it is just straight 14/2 shoved din the back so it uses white as hot for going to the lights but the wire is not marked as hot. also had multiple neutrals from several circuits meet on an outlet box, so even though i turned power off to the circuit one of the neutrals was still connected to a live circuit so i got a but of arcing while disconnecting it. boxes for ceiling lights are all bakelite so everyone the holes are stripped for screws, so things dont tighten up correctly. its all a mess but at least there i s alot of slack in the cables to rewire (nothing feels stapled behind the walls either)
I just put in an automatic light and leave the switch on. And my other lights I just leave on 24/7
I’m sorry Joel, but your screws are horizontal, you’re making electricians around the US cry right now. Vertical screws was the first thing told to me on my first day of my first job.
Why not just put up a porch light with a photo sensor?
@@ElectricProAcademy In my industrial experience, many times photo cells would be hardwired to control fixtures, which could be another option. I guess you'll see how well the lighting schedule serves seasonal variations in daylight hours, keep us posted. Best of luck bringing your old house up to date!
I would pretty much bet my life on the fact that there’s no ground to that box (given the age of the house and the looks of the conductors in that box) so tapping the box and installing the ground screw will do nothing except give a false sense of security for the next person that gets into that box.
BX is common in his home, and it is grounded. The tester liked it.
There IS a clear standard, it’s called home assistant. It takes control of ANY “smart” item from any company.
Home Assistant is not for regular joes.
Short wires aren't that big a deal, I use wagos.
Why not use wago 221s ?? All your struggles with wire nuts will go away.
I don't like those because they are hard install to many wires and they are Alway to thick for the boxes in old houses
on the plug with night light, you left the wires in wrong poles? And then when you put the switch and plug back in the hole , you did not place a box from the old steel out to the existing burnable wall board. As you said in the start , you had to address these issues as per code . Is it not true , if you have to deal with a NONE CODE BEARING ELECTRIAL issue , you as the licenced electrician , HAD to by law address those issues. I have watched a lot of your videos and learned , I just need to be correct in my issue if I come across this as a handyman / renovator.
1938?? Just build a new house at that point.
I’m so disappointed with you. just put a Lutron caseta smart switch and program it with home kit. You get a world of more functions plus what you want to do. FYI most people will be able to program a smart switch easier than that switch you have in your hands.