Narcissistic Mortification: From Shame to Healing via Trauma, Fear, and Guilt
Full text here: samvak.tripod.com/faq01.html
Narcissistic mortification, is, therefore, a sudden sense of defeat and loss of control over internal or external objects or realities, caused by an aggressing person or a compulsive trait or behavior. It produces disorientation and terror (distinct from anticipatory fear).
The entire personality is overwhelmed by impotent ineluctability and a lack of alternatives (inability to force objects to conform or to rely on their goodwill). Mortification reflects the activity of infantile strategies of coping with frustration or repression (such as grandiosity) and their attendant psychological defense mechanisms (for example, splitting, denial, or magical thinking).
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I have to listen to this over and over. There is so MUCH to take in. I feel as if this huge light has come over me and I can now make sense of the abuse I have endured and feel empowered. Thank you!
Yes..I had to watch the video few times and take notes 😊📚
Same!
Fake no such thing as a narcissist
@@thomaswatson9518 and you are professor of what kind of subject?
It all makes perfect sense to be a is a perfect description of my ex narc of 13 years. 11 weeks after the discard and I have strictly held no contact. He is wishing me back, so I hear, from mutual friends. NEVER
this guy is too smart
He sure is. Have been following Sam for quite a few years now. Every video offers something interesting to learn about and I am often entertained by his witty character. Would love to see him on the "Joe Rogan Experience "
i like him alot.
My narc told me one time he is scared to be alone and scared of the dark. I liked sleeping in the dark but had to get a night light for him. He is 6”4” and 230 lbs and acts like a child. I was with him for year and a half. It felt like a life time I was divorced after 30 years from some one else cheated on me so we divorced met my narc and thought I found the one at 54 yrs old boy how wrong I was! Every thing you say is spot on! Living the single life is soooo much better!!!!!
At the heart of a narcissist is a scared, emotionally arrested child. They are ALL children. It took me a while to figure out that a grown man could still be a child, emotionally. Sam V does several good videos on this.
Thank you. When my ex told me I reminded him of his mother, I mistakenly took that as a compliment.
Fear of isolation AND fear of dependency... ouch.
I'm going through narcissistic mortification right now and this presentation was uncanny and very poignant. I see the lack of empathy in my interactions with others and the self-destructive effect it has on my relationships. Developing more empathy is something I really need to work on. Thanks for lectures I really enjoy them and will continue to consume more.
So can you guys work on your empathy or is it just a self comforting convenient lie?
@@dotswitch well that's one way to phrase a question lol
@@pmost8087 putting yourself in another person's shoes and feel what they feel? Not seeing them as black or white? Able to deduct logic and reasoning to a situation?
@@pmost8087 depends on who you ask. I think its a comforting lie.
@@dotswitch you want narcs to suffer or be helped
Now I understand in detail why my ex killed himself. It's sad to realize that he really was on the right track, just couldn't find the strength in himself to face the shame. Thank you for making all these videos
I am sorry for your loss 🥀 condolences
Mortification is the worst thing on the planet. The pain and paranoia and feelings of helplessness are horrible.
The description you give of other-inflicted mortification, really describes well my girlfriend/ex with BPD/borderline traits. She will act aggressively, shout insults at people and then becomes humiliated by her actions when people confront her misbehaviour but she will insist that the problem comes from a conspiracy of evil people who are all trying to destroy her and that her own misbehaviours are justified. Myself having a narcissistic personality, I do frequently deal with self-inflicted mortification, which leads me to the realization of shame about who I am. I will then recognize my own actions as misbehaviour (e.g. stupid lies I told my girl) and I will feel guilt and shame for what I have, once again, done almost automatically. I only seem to see my misbehaviour in retrospect and I will admit my wrongdoing (lies) and in so doing, become vulnerable. And it is very painful to recognize myself to be someone who is shameful and broken and isolated.
enlightening, as always. You never fail to make the most complicated topics easy to understand. Thank you, Sam.
My husband"s mother died when he was 3. His uncle use to sexually abuse him. It started from age 9. He is a mentally abusive. Presently he living with a younger borderline in the apt below me. This is the 2nd time. Yet still he comes to see me almost every day. I believe he is in motivaction at this time he is not himself. He is acting somewhat childish. Came to wish me happy mother's day with a kiss. I really don't expect anything from him. But at the same time I have compassion for myself and for him. Almost all of his personal effects are at home still. We have been togother for 20 yrs. He is in debt and not working. His so is dependent on govt and handouts. I feel better because I am educating myself on their diorders. I am doing alright because I basically ignore them. The apt is on both our names. This.however makes me feel like he does not want to let me go. Why is he not willing to let go. I am 57 he is 53.
Yasmin Hosein Rampersad I don’t think Sam is going to answer your question here. It’s something you need to work through personally your self. You’re a grown woman, figure it out. Have some respect for yourself
Rachel Rosen why make her feel even worse, she is asking for help, it doesn’t have to be from Sam, incredibly harsh response from you.
Mortification must have happened to my friend when i criticized him angrily. He admitted to me he was having panic attacks and thought of seeking help. He then ghosted me completely. I would say he is a grandiose narcissist..
Thank you Professor, this is exactly what I have experienced with my partner when I decided to be healthy and secure with myself and refused to share the fantasy anymore after 23 years of marriage. I wanted to hear from an expert about this experience. You are the only person who has described what I have experienced with him. It was strangely fascinating to watch it unfold.
Thankyou for bringing awareness & understanding to this disorder in humanity.
You are helping people heal from these disorders. Than you!
traumaisng, what was traumatising was realising that my mum is what made me that way, it was freeing to know that. i am actually sick and i can get better, that it wasnt my fault. its mental illness
Best analyst in the world......I feel this is a blessing these videos. Some of us are in these relationships that can even be potentially dangerous and life threatening relationship with a dangerous narcissist.
Maybe he loves to hear himself talk he is a narcissist
@@keeleykobobel5507Lol. Maybe but he does explain their perspective well.
I truly appreciate your blend of psychodynamic theory, poetic metaphors, literary references, and examples that provide the details that help me see narcicism "in action". Your study of them is a real gift to the rest of us, both lay people and therapists , who are trying to make sense of the fog /the maze/the dream/ the fun house/ the nightmare they have been in. I would like to understand even more about how fairly healthy people can become obsessed with narcicists- how they lose themselves but suffer in silence at the same time.
Absolute description of my in-law. I wish I hadn’t reacted in the way I had (ie super aggressive) not because I fear to hurt them, but because I regret giving them supply. Next blow out I will narrate in real time what is happening until their tantrum subsides. Watching the colour drain from their face and a grown ass 40 yr old cower behind their father was not gratifying. It was pathetic. They were mortified. I will give them the opportunity to return to the table next time instead of challenging them head on to a fight (which I now know they will never take me on). Their children need to know their parent is sick, not that it’s ok to morph into the narcissist to defend themselves. I understand my own trauma stems from having endured narcissistic abuse as a child. I learnt how to fight as a result (physical or verbal) but there is no need to go into that state as a fully functioning adult. Thank you Sam.
I remember the mordification moment with my narc …. Play narcissist KZhead videos until it couldn’t take it anymore… and raged .. then ran away to reboot or plan another scam
Mortification.
Thank you for all you do. Your work has helped me tremendously 🙏
You are the ultimate expert unbelievable
If the person who.caused the mortification was the primary source, and acted out of character, and basically took the.narc by surprise, what will be their reaction towards that person...do they feel a sense of relief ...or does the injury require retalliation....
I just discovered this channel yesterday. I think the info here is so much on point!
If you spend years with a narc and get educated you become an expert on the subject. I got to a point where I knew the right buttons to push and what to do to manipulate him. I started to be scared of myself 😂 dispute of all that we are all victims somehow and life after a Narc can be emotionally hard for a while.
Right... going to the dark side🤣... It kinda messed me up too
Wow, so many heads to study to come forth with this insight, Thanks for doing the work for others and encapsulating it so cohesively. Now I understand my ex, and his mother, and sister and how we all related. Of course the damage has already been done, but you gave me some soul peace.
i was focusing on my partner and how much he would see himself here but as i keep listening i see myself too - only because we are leaving the shared fantasy stage and i think we are both deflated narcassists - gulp
Thank you. Yes, I've been surfing around other videos and the others all smacked of sensationalism or were just a little too colloquial. However, there is no doubt in the precise and intellectual language you used. Even though, there are some sections where its impossible not to impart some horror at the narcissist's behaviour, and the revulsion seems to come through. Also, this is perhaps the first video I've seen where you discuss in such detail the processes going on within the narcissist, perhaps all the others I've seen have been pitched at the receivers of the behaviour. This makes your video by far the most educational on the subject I've come across. Many thanks.
Agree. The others did discuss strategies to deal with the narcissist.
One ends up hating the narcissist
Rosa: and miss the idea of who they thought they fell in love with...so f’ ing painful.
"A narcissist suffers from Stockholm Syndrome-with his false self."©️ -sigs
Yes, my friends, I felt this basic concept to be particularly brilliant for the world of psychology and would expect it to catch on as time progresses and it's simplified distilling down ("pshat" )of a supposedly complicated topic catches on.
I'm jus lookin for a drop of supply ;)
The most interesting unique psychological irony is, the malignant narcissist has clearly succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome with her very self; but is incapable of suffering Stockholm Syndrome from another, in a real-world situation.
@@WOGLIN not really fair. Narcissists that become self aware deserve the support to change in appropriate therapy and perspective changing practices.
This is the best video I have ever watched about the topic, thank you very much! I wish they, themselves, watch this and could be able to understand as well..
REALLY good Sam!!!
incredible thank you
THANK YOU!
You are doing a hell of a good job
Thanks 🙏
Thank you so much ❤
You are brilliant Sr🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 thank you 🙏🏼
I am finding your channel most helpful. Thank you
Excellent analysis
Thank you
Sam, you are a Legend! Your insights and communication skills are unique and inspiring. The younger generation should hear some of your insights within the school system....esp about healthy and unhealthy relationships. Jamie Oliver did it with school dinners (though short lived) Your insights to the younger generation will be transformatiional! Thank you....I gave up BBC Newsnight on week days to listen to your videos. You have helped me massively at 53 yrs. And my new femqle partner. She loves you too! Cheers, I owe you many glasses of red wine. Thx
Standing ovation Professor, i understood many concepts in only One lecture...you are helping a lot!
I highly respect your work. Thank you for your videos.
Thank you sir.
Amazing and brilliant .. thank you
I learn SO much from your vids. Thank you so much !
Thank You for this clear and easy to understand video.
Wow.. @Prof many thanks for enlightening us. May you forever be blessed.
What an insightful gem of a video. Thank you professor.
This is accurate, per my experience. Matches.
What! This IS the best... I would argue, the steps which research/writing has taken on Personality Disorders (cluster B?) were all leading to this: the painful and truthful way to eradicate trauma responses from hiding a person’s Self from them. ‘Cold Therapy’ didn’t make sense to me until it happened organically. Life has to trigger the absolute worst agony imaginable, to wake yourself up from False Self land and accept reality as the only reality. I would worry, from a therapist’s point of view, how dangerous doing that to a narcissist in a clinical setting could be... If it failed, they would split on you. You could incur any number of violence, false allegations, or other hurtful abuse when they paint you ‘all black’ for triggering an injury which was big enough to hurt but not big enough to wake them up... Further notes: The movie Shutter Island is astounding. I know many people may think it relates to something else, but to me it was exactly this... how confusing and painful it is to accept and live in reality. Leonardo chooses the false self electively right at the end. I’m not so sure I haven’t as well. It is too hard to say when really good attributes are worthy of being proud of, and of course using to your own advantage.
He’s explaining what has happened if a narcissist has healed ... not to force it ..
This explains a lot. Thank you 🙏😊
I think the biggest act of love for a psycho shows in acknowledging his false self again after a controlled narcissistic mortification. i could be wrong.
Just started watching your videos very educational,I’m currently going through extremely disturbing time with my husband eg constant blaming out of control and violence,finding it very difficult to deal with not sure what to do 😔
The entire series on mortification is excellent. I have watched them all several times. I am curious - I was told to never tell the narcissist he was a narcissist, even though he had been diagnosed by a professional who used many other descriptors of the narcissistic traits as outlined in the DSM-V but not the "N" word. I was also told to never go into couples therapy with the narcissist but only go into individual therapy, without the narcissist. I am curious as to your perspective, since you apparently tell your clients that they ARE narcissists. I wish more therapists would be as direct as you are.
I have no idea where these “experts” got these principles. Both are dead wrong.
What are the other mortification videos titled?
Narcissism is a cycle True !
Wow, followers jumping by the thousands in recent weeks! Almost to 100k!
Heavy stuff. It's not often someone says there can be hope for a narcissist, but this makes a lot of sense. I always pondered, if borderlines can recover / acknowledge their destructive behaviors and learn to manage them, why couldn't someone who suffers from narcissism?
Sam is recovering. This is his healing. It's untreated childhood PTSD and must be treated as such. Healing the inner child. 🙏
@@lowkeyliesmith3795 Thank you for phrasing it this way. I knew Sam V has NPSD (from him saying it)- and I have just started watching his videos - and, I was beginning to feel I was just adding to a supply need he had. That maybe he didn't care- but, was using this for a popularity platform... but, now - I can see it maybe as a way for him to heal his false self and gain back his empathy; that one trait/quality that he has said one will never recover if one is/becomes/has NSPD. I feel more comfortable- I wonder if that feeling is still a part of the whirlpool pull of a charming Narcissist. Lol.... But, Thank you nonetheless, for your alternative view. ◇ And thank you, @Sam Vankin, for your lectures: the length, depth & clarity. ◇
Thank you!
I pray it helps my ex narc gf to modify cos i attacked her of her true self then exposed her,days later i noticed she deleted all her pics on fb and totally gone off on instagram,thats how i knew she was hit by my actions.
my mom was always put me down i become narcissisit i always demolish all feelimgs of any man who really like me i started hate him
"They surround themselves with people who have the potential to cause mortification" Interesting. So subsconciously they DO want to heal, they do want to shed the false self and get in touch with the true self. Does it then mean that people around them have a duty to 'expose' them and 'force' them into mortification, as gently and as compassionately as we know how.
Adult narcissists have only a False Self. Mortification cannot be gentle and compassionate. Advice: think BEFORE you type. Makes you appear more intelligent.
No wonder they pick intelligent, grounded and reality based people to destroy them... its interesting.
Please find the way to health narcissism!❤️🙏 I wish health for my mother!
I can’t be that guy to her. I now see why she pushed so hard to get a reaction out of me
Question: how does the cold therapy not leave the narcissist in a borderline state? Borderlines are able to feel pain, shame, etc, but they are overwhelmed by it. How will the narcissist deal with this pain without the false self as a buffer?
Cold Therapy leaves the narcissist without his grandiose defenses. But he is still lacking emotional empathy and access to his emotions, so, he is "safe".
Wow, as usual.
I felt bad for my actions cos i was really angry when i put the dots together and recognised she was a narcissist,my pain was my time and commentment to relation cos i was faithful to her 100% and loved her so much but i decided to raged on her badly and put all to her,insulted her to the extreme about her lies and fauls self,i hope it works.
Please find the way to health narzissm! 🙏❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Why do narcissists push their intimate partners to push them away? 18:24
What he described sounds similar to many conversion stories in Christianity, from people who were completely selfish and one day discover themselves
Yes i attacked my ex gf the same way you explained telling her all the bullshit about her,i blasted her of the truth about her and exposed her on FB to push the truth out more cos i wanted her to face the facts that her true self is been out there to others too cos i wanted to efflict pain on her too,i regretted it due but hope it helped her to modify,i disengaged and go on silence treatment cos we live in seperate country.
Narcissistic children can also have suffered trauma from abuse by the father. It seems that Sam Vaknin only sees narcissistic behavior in men, and that the parental abuse that precedes this behaviour is always due to the mother. This is a bit onesided, although very interesting
The mother is the nurterer and first love
Many are single mothers
HE IS A MAN, LET HIM BE...
😅😅
He often points out that he uses the pronoun 'he' but it can be equally about 'she'. Watch more of his videos and you will see 👍
Muchas Gracias Dr. por toda esta información. if I may ask a question. How old can a patient be treated for this treatment?
Someone needs to tel me if the adult Narcissist is HURTING as an adult..?? and acting in pain..?? or are they shut off from their pain and acting as angry adults ?
When a narc has an affair with another narc could this cause the cheating narc to go into mortification?
If I wanted to tell an ex partner who I still love very much that they have NPD, is there a specific video I could send them? This one or 7 phases of shared fantasy?
In this video, you say that mortification is the key to healing. However, in other videos I have heard you say that narcissists cannot heal. What can a therapy that is based on mortification, shame, and guilt achieve?
Watch my videos on cold therapy. Mortification is key for accomplishing insight and self-awareness, not healing.
Oh Lordy- as a survivor of incest and rape, I have felt so collapsed for -60 years? Thanks for making me see the result of the traumatized split self with compassion instead of judgment- whether CPTSD or Narcissist or any other diagnosis. There are so many traits and I am seeing more narcissism in myself. Could you recommend cold therapy to help a person with CPTSD break thru the denial and the pretending everything is fine? I’ve heard other people in the field saying you have to eat the rat- you have to feel the disgust and mortification as a doorway to truth and healing. Cold therapy makes sense as a way to go back to the trauma(s), with support and care, and learn who you are, how you did things, instead of having a false self where everything is fine?
Cold therapy is effective only with narcissism and major depressive disorders.
Omg @ 34:00 you just described me 😳🥺
Dr Sam Vaknin..... Question is it true that narcissist or psychopath have this so called “stare” when they stare what’s behind the stare. Would appreciate if you would make a specific topic/video about this.
Sizing up their prey, how good a supply will you be? And to feed their egos.
the stare felt like complete contempt...it would actually make me shake.
There's a love bomb stare and then the devaluation stare. Know the difference 🤣
I have had that stare towards me plenty of times. Boy did it remind me of my father. Stare of death and also to watch what you’re doing and how you react. I just wonder what is going on in the head.
Listening to you for the first time. This makes me sad as I am a woman who is in love with a man who seems to do the mortification. I don't want to be part of his pain. Or used as part of his pain. Gives me such a perspective of what to do. Question is there nothing to get past this tool he is using to work through his trauma?
“I dont want to be part of your pain” sounds like best possible thing to say to someone you care about but dont want then to feel the mortification of being asked to discontinue the relationship!
Prof do you have a video on how to get the narcissist to come back to you
Is it possible also for a Codependent to go thru mortification? Thank you
No. Only narcissists experience mortfication.
could guilt and shame lead to "narcissistic mortification" in non-narcissist people? for example, people who've been indoctrinated with terrible ideologies that shaped their thinking and behavior for so long but some sudden event has triggered the collapse of their worldview.
Yes. Narcissistic mortification involves the collapse of all narcissistic defenses (narcissistic decompensation) and everyone has narcissistic defenses.
How can an empath have narcissistic mortification? I dont understand it
Sam does not accept the idea of an empath
I met the ex-narcissist's mom and as an adult, he appeared to be her surrogate husband. She did not seem to have narcissistic traits, however. The dad left when the narcissist was 13. He described his dad as being very hard on him, angry, and scary-yet he idealized him. The mom told me she had broken up her marriage because she couldn't live with him. So, could the dad have been the narcissist? How does that affect romantic relationships with the narcissist? This father wound (if that is what it is)?
Rachel Shay I also think that it was my exes dad... who treated his wife and children like my ex treats now others
Hello I was wondering, is narcissism more prevalent in specific countries or cultures?
samvak.tripod.com/14.html
@@samvaknin thank you. We all live in ant hills of our own making, depending on the ant.
How many men are abused by their mothers??? Is this a normal thing? this alleged happened to my ex now listening to this video I’m thinking my god is this a normal thing in the world, his mum was horrible and definitely a narcissist I think
Why would narcissist stick around long enough around “ broken woman” if she is unable to be “ mother “ without malice “ . How these woman are able to pass “ fantasy stage or playmate stage? The other question why borderline and narcissist stay so long together because I am not sure if borderline is capable to be mother? Thank you so much for anyone having any idea to my question. I appreciate.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. You were a great help.
So from the sounds of it it seems like you're saying that the narcissist can be fixed with modification and acknowledgement that he or she has a problem
Mortification. Not fixed: it is temporary and then he reverts to form.
@@samvaknin That false self seems so powerful
I have narcissistic tendencies but also codependency. How did that happen?!
I feel the same but I feel like I didn’t take on the narcissistic tendencies until learning the narcissist behaviors and end up treating them the way they treat us. It’s scary... I have to back up and remember who I am.
@@patriciavaldez1896 going to the dark side
Could it be possible for the trauma to be inflicted not by a mother, but by a father?
Yes. Any primary object.
@@samvaknin Thank you so much!
Is this psychologically safe to share with a person who has narcissism?
I tried when I could and didn't work.They will dismiss it specially if they are of the "grandiose" type.
What is cold therapy. ? Sounds like hipnosis. ?
It is the therapy you can learn about by searching this channel before you waste my time with your nonsensical comments.
This might explain to at least some degree, the whole DDLG phenomena which has exploded in recent years? DDLG stands for "Daddy Dom Little Girl." Or it can also stand for "Daddies Dumb Little Girl." It's where the woman in the relationship takes on the role of being a helpless child and the man plays the father role with his fictitious daughter. DDLG also usually involves incest roleplay where the man basically acts as the "molester" of his make believe daughter. But sometimes the roles are reversed and the man plays the role of a baby and the woman plays the Mommy. I've actually witnessed this behavior in public where the man will be walking around in a pair of "footy pajamas" and when he's asked why, he says his wife or girlfriend demands this child like behavior from him. It seems to me that DDLG is just a way for Narcissist/Codependent couples to LARP (Live Action Roleplay) I've even heard stories of some of these people walking around with poop filled diapers. Personally, I think these people need to have the police called on them and they ought to be tasered for doing this stuff in public! They are very selfish and they don't care how many people they offend!
Watch the Budapest series on sexuality (in the sexuality playlist).
@@samvaknin A while back I actually did watch the one where the Hungarian woman mentioned something about this guy who was dressed in a skin tight rubber suit and how he was suspended on a stage until his weeny finally squirted and then he relaxed his whole body. But I'll be sure to watch the others.
That's not love.... so why bother?