The Willie and Martin Handcart Story Mormon Pioneers Three 18 year old boys
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I love the attitude of those 18 year olds. "Don't care how cold that water is, time girt up our loins, these Saints have been through enough, we're here to answer some prayers."
@aeijae8013 күн бұрын
My Great Grandmother was 8 years old when she came with her Mother, Sister and Brother to Utah in the Willey handcart company.
@uvjhamil2 жыл бұрын
Oh, How Wonderful to hear Pres. HINCLEYS VOICE and MESSAGE. I TRUST THESE MEN LIKE HIM. AND HIM.
@Forestgump12able11 ай бұрын
Smith a shorting pig that sent this dirty guy. It is blasphemy to say God is the blame.
@gemmeerobinson18039 ай бұрын
There's talk of heroes and super heroes. None were greater than these 3 boys.
@nolanbowen8800 Жыл бұрын
Read my true comment above.
@thomaspearson191910 ай бұрын
The mormon heroes at Meadow Mountain were even greater!
@Tom-fo5ce8 ай бұрын
Do i need to go to the Amiga machine to understand this message. ? just saying.
@thomaspearson19198 ай бұрын
@@Tom-fo5ce Those weren't heroes... the church denounced what they did, but you knew that.
@stephtimms17766 ай бұрын
They knew they would be honored. So brave.
@roberthall6609Ай бұрын
Whoever needs to hear this: You are needed, and important! Please hang on..., whatever your heartache! Christ is the healing balm: Even Gods Son was left alone for a time.
@Natalie-lovesGod3 жыл бұрын
You may have an idea of how astonishing your statement is, if not: your words are inspired by God. Thank you 🙏
@FromAgonyToLight10 ай бұрын
Thanks.....
@FranciscoQ77710 ай бұрын
Thank you, I needed to hear that. Thank you for following the Holy Ghost.
@tfmCm7 ай бұрын
Oh my goodness, what wonderful words to read this day. I spend everyday alone and this was such a boost!!!!! I so admire the people of your faith and share a love of many of your beliefs. Thank you again, christian live, Debbie❤
@debbieworth78657 ай бұрын
ces letter
@mikkifrompreston43963 ай бұрын
This is one of the most inspiring stories I've ever heard.
@Caleb-zt5ht4 жыл бұрын
This is one of my favorite stories and always has been! I love the saints and I love their examples of service. Service is also one of my great talents. And I do my best to follow the examples of the saints that served one another.
@ftc1744 жыл бұрын
I prefer the example of the great mormon warriors and their sacrifice at the Meadow Mountain Massacre
@Tom-fo5ce8 ай бұрын
@@Tom-fo5ce I prefer all the help they are giving humanity as they sit on their 150 billion stock portfolio...Jesus would be so proud of their emense wealth...
@johnrowley3108 ай бұрын
@@Tom-fo5ce Mistakes are made by all races, religions and other various groups. LDS are not immune. People can be stupid,dumb and mean. But there are also heroic acts. Acts of kindness. I think we are better humans when we look for the good. I've done plenty of dumb things myself, and I'm glad people don't say because of my stupid mistakes that my entire family must be the same way.
@cpace12328 күн бұрын
I sure do miss him!! I live close to the Sweetwater and I know the storms that can happen. Last winter we all pitched in to help friends and neighbors dig out of their homes and dig animals out too. These brave young men were like the sons of Helaman faithful and brave! God blessed them and God bless us all to be as strong and faithful as these boys!!
@Amanda-yf7vj2 ай бұрын
Love it, love President Hinckley...spot on Brother! Fire & the Covenant is the story of our families...the James. Our great great grandfather is buried in Rock Creek Hollow (dedicated by Pres. Hinckley) after dying on Rocky Ridge.
@CCRep1232 ай бұрын
What a great history! Thanks for sharing this inspiring clip👍👍
@zoomnpa99056 ай бұрын
I first heard of this event when I attended seminary almost 25 years ago. 🥺
@elmexiyankee Жыл бұрын
Yeah I loved pres Hinkley loved his talks
@ngatihine60725 жыл бұрын
I dearly love and miss Gordon B Hinckley. Thomas S. Monson. I am grateful Because Russell M Nelson is our prophet today. So there is a love and tenderness about him today that I admire about Russell M Nelson. So I cheer for him and because of him being our prophet seer and revealator today. My parents cherish the faith in the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints. praise to the man whom communed with jehovah. And in choir practice Come tomorrow Practice singing O my father.
@christopherdeleon4244 ай бұрын
A beautiful story, I agree. One that impacted me when I heard President Hinckley tell it years ago. However, it's so sad and disheartening to me that it's embellished and the version President Hinckley tells here is not supported by the broader historic record: "The evidence indicates that more than three rescuers braved the icy water that day. Of those positively identified as being involved in the Sweetwater crossing, none were exactly eighteen. Although these rescuers helped a great many of the handcart pioneers across the river, they carried only a portion of the company across. While some of these rescuers complained of health problems that resulted from the experience, most lived long and active lives that terminated in deaths that cannot be definitively attributed to their exposure to the icy water that day. "The underlying meaning of the statement attributed to Brigham Young-publicly promising rescuers eternal life for this one act alone-is not entirely evident. Because there are no contemporary records of this statement, it needs to be examined in terms of both what was being said around the time of the rescue and in terms of gospel principles. Brigham Young did publicly associate exaltation with the effort to rescue the stranded pioneer companies, as did Heber C. Kimball, who publicly praised by name two who helped at the Sweetwater. However, both Young and Kimball taught that the tie between the rescue and the celestial kingdom was conditional in that the individuals involved needed to meet established requirements that all Latter-day Saints must attain of living their religion and enduring to the end. Individuals should not be misled to believe that one heroic act on their part will guarantee exaltation in the celestial kingdom." byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-martin-handcart-company-at-the-sweetwater-another-look/
@LatterDayInvestigator4 ай бұрын
Thank you for the clarifying information! I always appreciate the facts. It's somewhat disheartening and frustrating when you learn later, and after the fact, when the inaccuracies of the story have been accepted as the way that it was, that it wasn't quite the way you were told. It's so important for history to be told accurately, imo.
@HopefulHealingGarden3 ай бұрын
@@HopefulHealingGarden I completely agree. And the LDS church is pretty horrible when it comes to telling complete and accurate history, sadly.
@LatterDayInvestigator3 ай бұрын
I do not think I could have done what those young men did. They did as the Lord Jesus Christ wanted them to do and saved many lives. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." -- John chapter 15 verse 13
@ElectronicGigabyte6 жыл бұрын
Great video. I'm not a member anymore but it still gets me after all these years
@alexoffduty48136 жыл бұрын
Note hagas ...He beckons for your return...”Blessed be the Lord God of Israel”...and God be thanked for the multitude of tender mercies He showers down upon us!
@jamesschmidt92176 жыл бұрын
Note hagas why you are not member
@papap26916 жыл бұрын
Members maybe faulty but the religion is not. Do not grow wiry due to people trying to be better.
@lang10313 жыл бұрын
It still gets me too Alex. Member or not, I am glad you can still recognize the sprit woven into the story of these boys' sacrifice. May you see this comment and again experience that same feeling. You are loved!
@Sablespartan11 ай бұрын
Alex come back say your brothers and sisters. We love you.
@donnacrimmins78910 ай бұрын
Beautiful Truth!!!
@DogSoldier03512 жыл бұрын
The Lord sees our good deeds and knows our hearts, our Savior Jesus Christ will bless us if we do good works and help others, if we repent sincerely and keep His Commandments we will find true happiness and get peace of mind, we will have a remission of our sins and we will be blessed by Jesus Christ, we should strive to keep God's commandments and do the will of The Father like The Lord did, we need to follow the perfect example of our Savior Jesus Christ 👍🏻✝️
@sebastien88144 ай бұрын
I remember This Discuss!!!
@eduardoseganti6933Ай бұрын
Amen, President Hinkley.
@michaelbozym81162 ай бұрын
This is a great story, but the close captioning is very poorly done. Is there a way for someone to fix it? I know service missionaries who would volunteer to correct these transcriptions, but I don't know who to contact.
@anndexter5004 Жыл бұрын
❤❤❤
@graymanner007 Жыл бұрын
They had no need to be crossing the plains in the wintertime, other than Brigham Young 's orders and his ordering that they not be properly provisioned unlike the previous wagon-trains & handcart "companies." Brigham Young set them up. :.
@joecamel61963 ай бұрын
So Brigham, who you are purporting was corrupt, set them up to be killed?
@ivanmack213 ай бұрын
Which General Conference wss This Discuss please?
@eduardoseganti6933Ай бұрын
This is one of my favorite stories, I really hope it's not just a story. Sadly we have no way to know for sure.
@farronrice8588 ай бұрын
I prefer the story of the Meadow Mountain Massacre and the how the brave young mormons gave their all for the cause
@Tom-fo5ce8 ай бұрын
If I write something in my journal today and someone reads it a hundred years from now is the story true or false?
@gs1oobert7 ай бұрын
There is little we can accurately rely on since so much is recounted from memory often many weeks or even months later.
@blizzard2oo2 ай бұрын
Amen. :)
@carlthewinner6 ай бұрын
IF you visit the museum in Wyoming the miracle surrounding these 3 young men is that they suffered NO ills from heir heroic measures. President Hinckley mispoke.
@michaelrussell8026 Жыл бұрын
Those 3 boys did not suffer anything major at the time they Carried people across the river. It was later in life that they suffered & died from the effects of that fateful day.
@lisapaige653010 ай бұрын
Misspoke = a lie.
@johnrowley3108 ай бұрын
I've read about these boys. In their later lives they did have illness from the heroic efforts, and they suffered. Read the history. I have ancestors who were in the Martin company.
@KBColeLong3 ай бұрын
S
@mariecampbell33242 жыл бұрын
This is unfortunate. These 3 young men were very brave but they were not the only ones there saving lives that day. They didn't die from the exposure they suffered. I'm sure they were greatly blessed and apparently they were protected. I hope the brethern have learned from this. These stories need to be fact checked before they are shared to the world.
@willbredsguard7 ай бұрын
This story has been researched and found to be untrue. It was told in General Conference in the 1860's but the three boys lived long and rather wild lives.
@mtddmtdd16 ай бұрын
Awful. Any organization that is truly "about families" would never put families through this. Or send fathers overseas for years at a time or ask children to leave their families for 2 years during a time they most need their parents.
@PPGJAEАй бұрын
18-21 years old is a time that "children" need their parents most?
@ivanmack21Ай бұрын
You ask those 18 year old men their thoughts on your comments. I believe they would disagree. If you put family before God, sad is your fate.
@tryingtochange1958Ай бұрын
Anyone do a Fact Check?
@gorditogordito872911 ай бұрын
Yes. It’s mostly made up by Solomon Kimball and appeared in the improvement era in 1914. Apparently BYU studies has an article debunking this story. The 3 boys were there and helped. They didn’t carry people across the river, they died many years later of other causes, two of them outlived Brigham Young. It’s an inspiring story but apparently made up. It all came to light in 2006 so this video pre dates the debunking.
@5783sguitar10 ай бұрын
Reminds me of the made up death spiral talk by Russel Nelson... also been debunked.
@coffeedrinkingisnotasin604910 ай бұрын
Actually John Jacques also wrote in 1872 about the sweetwater crossing he participated in while in the Martin Handcart company. Three isn't the exact number, but rather "several", and not nearly the whole company was carried across, but a "portion". It isn't hard to believe people needed help crossing a half frozen river in Wyoming on the Oregon Trail.
@scottanno886110 ай бұрын
Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
@stephanieleeshepherdАй бұрын
go look up the mountian meadow massacre these are the great mormons he speaks of
@jamesmoore36946 ай бұрын
My wife's grandfather, Melvin Smith, was a historian that covered the Mountain Meadow Massacre extensively. He was not LDS and often conveyed this to us and tried, like you, to pin this on the Church collectively, when in reality, it was likely a few individuals who were to blame for it. It was likely bad information, mixed with retaliation from past experiences, mixed with fear, etc. Regardless, it was not good and should have never happened. Now, let's look in the scriptures where good men made serious mistakes. Or look at general history where good men commit heinous crimes. How about the blood shed unconstitutional Abe Lincoln perpetuated?
@ivanmack216 ай бұрын
If only Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had not persuaded so many people to put themselves into harm’s way, based on a lie.
@ChaChaDancin7 ай бұрын
I pray that you will celebrate Christmas in knowledge and truth. The knowledge that Jesus Christ died for you, in an act so poeerful that nothing else is needed but belief. And the truth that Gordon Hinkley and the leadership of the LDS Church are lying to you and always have.
@WorkHardBeNice5 ай бұрын
Evidence?
@ivanmack215 ай бұрын
That is not how one attains salvation, only through repentance and faith in the true Christ of the bible (not the created spirit brother of lucifer of mormonism) can one be granted salvation through the divine grace of God. Not by works, however noble. Read ephesians. And repent of these wretched blasphemies!!!
@corybritton1966Ай бұрын
Agree .. just because you helped save a life here on earth does not give you a free ticket to heaven. Through Jesus blood is the only way of salvation from hell
@mattdotile22 күн бұрын
Imagine being in a cult where they tell you it’s easy to walk across the prairie .
@geoffreybudge30275 ай бұрын
Easy?
@ivanmack214 ай бұрын
I agree, imagine a cult that would tell the Israelites that it was easy to wander the desert for 40 years.
@reedrobins1702 ай бұрын
@reedrobins170 So you agree that the Mormon Pioneers were modern day Israelites?
@ivanmack212 ай бұрын
Gordon told so many lies. I don’t know how much of this to actually believe.
@whizwhitney5 ай бұрын
Please share some...
@ivanmack215 ай бұрын
What about all those who starved and froze to death.. its an absolute fact that brigham young didnt take care of them through the handcart companies..fact.
@patriciafinn57177 ай бұрын
What evidence do you have?
@ivanmack214 ай бұрын
@@ivanmack21 ah stop..research your history for goodness sake.
@patriciafinn57174 ай бұрын
@patriciafinn5717 I have, that's why I'm asking for your evidence you seem to have? Maybe you're just making trite comments?
@ivanmack214 ай бұрын
@@ivanmack21 no its in a book just written lately i think..actually very sad so im not at all trite about it..its about the handcart companies etc.. im just sad to learn how many prople died and its not all the sanitized version we get..so i say rip to them . Google the book.you might find it or research done about it. I feel knowing the truth is our duty..respect.
@patriciafinn57174 ай бұрын
If Brigham had just sent a text, all would have been safe. Ooops, no text service then. Gotcha, I meant to say telegram. Wait, when did telegram line get completed? 1861! Certainly not in 1856. Now you tell me Brigham did not even know? That is the truth Brigham only found out about the Willie and the Martin companies when Willard Richards arrived in early October then immediately sent out rescue riders and wagons! YOUR fact is incorrect!! Try using truth for a change. So easy to repeat lies!!
@blizzard2ooАй бұрын
Probably a lie, all the stories they tell are lies, how did I ever believe this dribble
@tuesdaycurtis1639 ай бұрын
Don't beat yourself up - took me 40 years to clear my brain of the layers and layers of nonsense I was fed. Feels great now
@Tom-fo5ce8 ай бұрын
@@Tom-fo5ce I was in it for 52 yrs, came out three years ago and have been finding truth from lies
@tuesdaycurtis1638 ай бұрын
You know they are lying when you see their lips moving...
@johnrowley3108 ай бұрын
Be specific. I'd like to know what verfiable lies have been spoken.
@ivanmack216 ай бұрын
People leave faith for not believing in the New Testament.
I love the attitude of those 18 year olds. "Don't care how cold that water is, time girt up our loins, these Saints have been through enough, we're here to answer some prayers."
My Great Grandmother was 8 years old when she came with her Mother, Sister and Brother to Utah in the Willey handcart company.
Oh, How Wonderful to hear Pres. HINCLEYS VOICE and MESSAGE. I TRUST THESE MEN LIKE HIM. AND HIM.
Smith a shorting pig that sent this dirty guy. It is blasphemy to say God is the blame.
There's talk of heroes and super heroes. None were greater than these 3 boys.
Read my true comment above.
The mormon heroes at Meadow Mountain were even greater!
Do i need to go to the Amiga machine to understand this message. ? just saying.
@@Tom-fo5ce Those weren't heroes... the church denounced what they did, but you knew that.
They knew they would be honored. So brave.
Whoever needs to hear this: You are needed, and important! Please hang on..., whatever your heartache! Christ is the healing balm: Even Gods Son was left alone for a time.
You may have an idea of how astonishing your statement is, if not: your words are inspired by God. Thank you 🙏
Thanks.....
Thank you, I needed to hear that. Thank you for following the Holy Ghost.
Oh my goodness, what wonderful words to read this day. I spend everyday alone and this was such a boost!!!!! I so admire the people of your faith and share a love of many of your beliefs. Thank you again, christian live, Debbie❤
ces letter
This is one of the most inspiring stories I've ever heard.
This is one of my favorite stories and always has been! I love the saints and I love their examples of service. Service is also one of my great talents. And I do my best to follow the examples of the saints that served one another.
I prefer the example of the great mormon warriors and their sacrifice at the Meadow Mountain Massacre
@@Tom-fo5ce I prefer all the help they are giving humanity as they sit on their 150 billion stock portfolio...Jesus would be so proud of their emense wealth...
@@Tom-fo5ce Mistakes are made by all races, religions and other various groups. LDS are not immune. People can be stupid,dumb and mean. But there are also heroic acts. Acts of kindness. I think we are better humans when we look for the good. I've done plenty of dumb things myself, and I'm glad people don't say because of my stupid mistakes that my entire family must be the same way.
I sure do miss him!! I live close to the Sweetwater and I know the storms that can happen. Last winter we all pitched in to help friends and neighbors dig out of their homes and dig animals out too. These brave young men were like the sons of Helaman faithful and brave! God blessed them and God bless us all to be as strong and faithful as these boys!!
Love it, love President Hinckley...spot on Brother! Fire & the Covenant is the story of our families...the James. Our great great grandfather is buried in Rock Creek Hollow (dedicated by Pres. Hinckley) after dying on Rocky Ridge.
What a great history! Thanks for sharing this inspiring clip👍👍
I first heard of this event when I attended seminary almost 25 years ago. 🥺
Yeah I loved pres Hinkley loved his talks
I dearly love and miss Gordon B Hinckley. Thomas S. Monson. I am grateful Because Russell M Nelson is our prophet today. So there is a love and tenderness about him today that I admire about Russell M Nelson. So I cheer for him and because of him being our prophet seer and revealator today. My parents cherish the faith in the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints. praise to the man whom communed with jehovah. And in choir practice Come tomorrow Practice singing O my father.
A beautiful story, I agree. One that impacted me when I heard President Hinckley tell it years ago. However, it's so sad and disheartening to me that it's embellished and the version President Hinckley tells here is not supported by the broader historic record: "The evidence indicates that more than three rescuers braved the icy water that day. Of those positively identified as being involved in the Sweetwater crossing, none were exactly eighteen. Although these rescuers helped a great many of the handcart pioneers across the river, they carried only a portion of the company across. While some of these rescuers complained of health problems that resulted from the experience, most lived long and active lives that terminated in deaths that cannot be definitively attributed to their exposure to the icy water that day. "The underlying meaning of the statement attributed to Brigham Young-publicly promising rescuers eternal life for this one act alone-is not entirely evident. Because there are no contemporary records of this statement, it needs to be examined in terms of both what was being said around the time of the rescue and in terms of gospel principles. Brigham Young did publicly associate exaltation with the effort to rescue the stranded pioneer companies, as did Heber C. Kimball, who publicly praised by name two who helped at the Sweetwater. However, both Young and Kimball taught that the tie between the rescue and the celestial kingdom was conditional in that the individuals involved needed to meet established requirements that all Latter-day Saints must attain of living their religion and enduring to the end. Individuals should not be misled to believe that one heroic act on their part will guarantee exaltation in the celestial kingdom." byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-martin-handcart-company-at-the-sweetwater-another-look/
Thank you for the clarifying information! I always appreciate the facts. It's somewhat disheartening and frustrating when you learn later, and after the fact, when the inaccuracies of the story have been accepted as the way that it was, that it wasn't quite the way you were told. It's so important for history to be told accurately, imo.
@@HopefulHealingGarden I completely agree. And the LDS church is pretty horrible when it comes to telling complete and accurate history, sadly.
I do not think I could have done what those young men did. They did as the Lord Jesus Christ wanted them to do and saved many lives. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." -- John chapter 15 verse 13
Great video. I'm not a member anymore but it still gets me after all these years
Note hagas ...He beckons for your return...”Blessed be the Lord God of Israel”...and God be thanked for the multitude of tender mercies He showers down upon us!
Note hagas why you are not member
Members maybe faulty but the religion is not. Do not grow wiry due to people trying to be better.
It still gets me too Alex. Member or not, I am glad you can still recognize the sprit woven into the story of these boys' sacrifice. May you see this comment and again experience that same feeling. You are loved!
Alex come back say your brothers and sisters. We love you.
Beautiful Truth!!!
The Lord sees our good deeds and knows our hearts, our Savior Jesus Christ will bless us if we do good works and help others, if we repent sincerely and keep His Commandments we will find true happiness and get peace of mind, we will have a remission of our sins and we will be blessed by Jesus Christ, we should strive to keep God's commandments and do the will of The Father like The Lord did, we need to follow the perfect example of our Savior Jesus Christ 👍🏻✝️
I remember This Discuss!!!
Amen, President Hinkley.
This is a great story, but the close captioning is very poorly done. Is there a way for someone to fix it? I know service missionaries who would volunteer to correct these transcriptions, but I don't know who to contact.
❤❤❤
They had no need to be crossing the plains in the wintertime, other than Brigham Young 's orders and his ordering that they not be properly provisioned unlike the previous wagon-trains & handcart "companies." Brigham Young set them up. :.
So Brigham, who you are purporting was corrupt, set them up to be killed?
Which General Conference wss This Discuss please?
This is one of my favorite stories, I really hope it's not just a story. Sadly we have no way to know for sure.
I prefer the story of the Meadow Mountain Massacre and the how the brave young mormons gave their all for the cause
If I write something in my journal today and someone reads it a hundred years from now is the story true or false?
There is little we can accurately rely on since so much is recounted from memory often many weeks or even months later.
Amen. :)
IF you visit the museum in Wyoming the miracle surrounding these 3 young men is that they suffered NO ills from heir heroic measures. President Hinckley mispoke.
Those 3 boys did not suffer anything major at the time they Carried people across the river. It was later in life that they suffered & died from the effects of that fateful day.
Misspoke = a lie.
I've read about these boys. In their later lives they did have illness from the heroic efforts, and they suffered. Read the history. I have ancestors who were in the Martin company.
S
This is unfortunate. These 3 young men were very brave but they were not the only ones there saving lives that day. They didn't die from the exposure they suffered. I'm sure they were greatly blessed and apparently they were protected. I hope the brethern have learned from this. These stories need to be fact checked before they are shared to the world.
This story has been researched and found to be untrue. It was told in General Conference in the 1860's but the three boys lived long and rather wild lives.
Awful. Any organization that is truly "about families" would never put families through this. Or send fathers overseas for years at a time or ask children to leave their families for 2 years during a time they most need their parents.
18-21 years old is a time that "children" need their parents most?
You ask those 18 year old men their thoughts on your comments. I believe they would disagree. If you put family before God, sad is your fate.
Anyone do a Fact Check?
Yes. It’s mostly made up by Solomon Kimball and appeared in the improvement era in 1914. Apparently BYU studies has an article debunking this story. The 3 boys were there and helped. They didn’t carry people across the river, they died many years later of other causes, two of them outlived Brigham Young. It’s an inspiring story but apparently made up. It all came to light in 2006 so this video pre dates the debunking.
Reminds me of the made up death spiral talk by Russel Nelson... also been debunked.
Actually John Jacques also wrote in 1872 about the sweetwater crossing he participated in while in the Martin Handcart company. Three isn't the exact number, but rather "several", and not nearly the whole company was carried across, but a "portion". It isn't hard to believe people needed help crossing a half frozen river in Wyoming on the Oregon Trail.
Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
go look up the mountian meadow massacre these are the great mormons he speaks of
My wife's grandfather, Melvin Smith, was a historian that covered the Mountain Meadow Massacre extensively. He was not LDS and often conveyed this to us and tried, like you, to pin this on the Church collectively, when in reality, it was likely a few individuals who were to blame for it. It was likely bad information, mixed with retaliation from past experiences, mixed with fear, etc. Regardless, it was not good and should have never happened. Now, let's look in the scriptures where good men made serious mistakes. Or look at general history where good men commit heinous crimes. How about the blood shed unconstitutional Abe Lincoln perpetuated?
If only Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had not persuaded so many people to put themselves into harm’s way, based on a lie.
I pray that you will celebrate Christmas in knowledge and truth. The knowledge that Jesus Christ died for you, in an act so poeerful that nothing else is needed but belief. And the truth that Gordon Hinkley and the leadership of the LDS Church are lying to you and always have.
Evidence?
That is not how one attains salvation, only through repentance and faith in the true Christ of the bible (not the created spirit brother of lucifer of mormonism) can one be granted salvation through the divine grace of God. Not by works, however noble. Read ephesians. And repent of these wretched blasphemies!!!
Agree .. just because you helped save a life here on earth does not give you a free ticket to heaven. Through Jesus blood is the only way of salvation from hell
Imagine being in a cult where they tell you it’s easy to walk across the prairie .
Easy?
I agree, imagine a cult that would tell the Israelites that it was easy to wander the desert for 40 years.
@reedrobins170 So you agree that the Mormon Pioneers were modern day Israelites?
Gordon told so many lies. I don’t know how much of this to actually believe.
Please share some...
What about all those who starved and froze to death.. its an absolute fact that brigham young didnt take care of them through the handcart companies..fact.
What evidence do you have?
@@ivanmack21 ah stop..research your history for goodness sake.
@patriciafinn5717 I have, that's why I'm asking for your evidence you seem to have? Maybe you're just making trite comments?
@@ivanmack21 no its in a book just written lately i think..actually very sad so im not at all trite about it..its about the handcart companies etc.. im just sad to learn how many prople died and its not all the sanitized version we get..so i say rip to them . Google the book.you might find it or research done about it. I feel knowing the truth is our duty..respect.
If Brigham had just sent a text, all would have been safe. Ooops, no text service then. Gotcha, I meant to say telegram. Wait, when did telegram line get completed? 1861! Certainly not in 1856. Now you tell me Brigham did not even know? That is the truth Brigham only found out about the Willie and the Martin companies when Willard Richards arrived in early October then immediately sent out rescue riders and wagons! YOUR fact is incorrect!! Try using truth for a change. So easy to repeat lies!!
Probably a lie, all the stories they tell are lies, how did I ever believe this dribble
Don't beat yourself up - took me 40 years to clear my brain of the layers and layers of nonsense I was fed. Feels great now
@@Tom-fo5ce I was in it for 52 yrs, came out three years ago and have been finding truth from lies
You know they are lying when you see their lips moving...
Be specific. I'd like to know what verfiable lies have been spoken.
People leave faith for not believing in the New Testament.