Axe Design: American vs European Context and Use
2021 ж. 4 Мам.
16 966 Рет қаралды
Discussing the different types of axes used in Europe versus the American axe and the advantages and disadvantages of them. There is no perfect axe, just the right tool for the job!
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MAAATE this vid was incredible. The footage from all over the world and your narration was spot on. Very well thought out and put together. Thanks for the effort man. WELL DONE!
The historical footage and explanations behind them….astounding! The right tool for the job, therefore different patterns. That chopping at ground level, OMG brutal! If a modern human shook hands with one of those men I’d bet his arm would get torn off, just by accident. They had to be beasts! I love using an axe, this video was fantastic.
I learned more new information about axes in this video than I have in the last 5 years of videos combined. Thank you.
Awesome video - HUGE Thanks An addition why Axes like the old Harz pattern (Bison) had a diagonal head with the poll lower than the bit has its reason in giving the head a bigger lever for upward and sideward pulling of the handle when stuck, while keeping weight of the head nearly the same. American patterns did the same with extending the poll and adding lugs to the sides of the head, but which also increased weight. Kind Regards
I recently came across an interesting reason why the finnish axe design developed the long collar design. Available wood for the handle is one thing but apparently the other reason is that when you are doing heavy axe work in very cold conditions, below -20°C which would have been common, the actual metal around the eye was suggestible to cracking and breaking because of how brittle it becomes. Also in that context it makes sense to use raw iron for the body of the axe so that it's as soft as possible. Oh and very good video, I enjoy the hell out of theory/practice contemplation and you know a lot of stuff.
This was super interesting for a nerd like me. Great information and I loved the old footage. Thank you! 🙏
That's one excellent introduction video to axe design in general, it akes it clear the technical product only makes sense in a specific social and environmental context. The individual farmer who uses his axe mostly for coppiced/pollarded firewood and occasionnal felling doesn't have the same needs as the small 2-6 men team of seasonnal professionnal lumberjacks (who also does plank sawing and stuff), who doesn't have the same needs as the very large 20-50 men teams of all year long industrial logging which fed steam-powered sawing mills. Europe is characterized by an absolutely huge diversity, with basically all possible uses and designs covered. And some exetremely different design philosophies. For examples some axe eyes descend from a collar that is almost a closed socket in which the handle is held by friction, especially in germanic area (the typical example is the Finnish axe), and some on the other hand, especially in romance area, the eye is narrow and cantilevers on the handle (scure putignano, French bigeoire, destral catalana). What's amazing in Europe is how some patterns used to go from 300g to 3kg (Vizcaina, Sila/Sicilia/Calabria), and it's always the exact same design just scaled up or down. Anyway, here is a video you might not know about the lumberjacks of Sila (almost the same area as Calabria), but using wide and thin bitted axes that seem to be trento/trentino pattern, much further North. It may be possible that these lumberjacks from Sila/Calabria, a poor region of Italy, bought their axes in the North of Italy, where they might have worked seasonnally, and where all the steel industry is. kzhead.info/sun/fNKop6uupItpiY0/bejne.html Here is another video, absolutely not from Europe as it's from Indonesia, where we see a long and narrow axe: kzhead.info/sun/ps9rlpSLn6x7Y6M/bejne.html What's super interesting here is not so much the axe, than the fact he's using it with techniques quite similar to those used with stones axes (start around 18:00): www.canal-u.tv/video/cerimes/yeleme_la_hache_de_pierre_polie_en_nouvelle_guinee.8535
Last time I was this early. Spear and Jackson made decent tools.
you prolly dont care but if you are stoned like me during the covid times you can watch all of the new movies and series on Instaflixxer. I've been streaming with my girlfriend for the last couple of weeks :)
@Collin Immanuel definitely, been using Instaflixxer for since december myself :D
I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. I have just started to learn proper axe technique and I have been enjoying and learning from your videos.
I'm 7 minutes in and I have to say this is one of the best videos I've seen related to the axe. I would love more content like this that gives context to designs and how things were really used. Axe history is fascinating. One of my favorites are the Tie Hacks of Wyoming. I can't imagine having to cut down and square up 2 sides of 10-40 trees a day and then getting up tomorrow to do it again.
excellent video for us axe enthusiasts ... thank you
Excellent video. It answered why some old axes are such weird shapes.
the harzer axe is a axe for removing branches on stony mountain grounds. the rheinische axe is for branching too but you will destroy the tip by hiting stones.
Superb video. Great explanation and examples. Thank you so much.
Excellent. Simple and understandable. That helped a lot. Has made a lot of things clear. Cheers
Great video Ben! Informative, well presented and with excellent diagrams. Loved the historical footage as well. Thanks.
I'm embarrassed to say I grew up in Texas and had never heard of the Kerrville Cedar Axe. I've even been to Kerrville a few times. Always good to learn something new. Thanks again.
This is gold, great explanation
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it
@@benscottwoodchopper could you give me some advice? I'd love to have a splitting axe that would stick just enough in hard dry beech so I could use that to move smaller pieces but then get pretty wide so it doesn't stick when I don't want it to. Is this even possible and if so, with which kind of head should I go? So far I'm thinking the super splitter type became its relatively narrow in the front. Also I'd want it to be pretty light, around 1,5kg for the head.
@@petrl9838 yes super splitter type is good
@@benscottwoodchopper thanks mate
I recognize one of the earliest (1st?) clips as a U.S.National Forest Service training film. That was awesome and ty.
very informative.
Well put together. Definitely helps make sense of those strange patterns for us Americans. But thank god we don’t have to cut low stumps though, that looks like hell bent over like that trying to chop through the buttress. But it is safer I suppose. I do want to make a argument that it’s not safer in one important way, having to do with the angle of the undercut, but I’ll save that for a future video.
Very impressed and pleased to have found this gem of information on KZhead. This guy knows his stuff. Thanks for a well rounded overview/introduction to axes!
Amazing vid, thank you for all the vintage clips you have linked, there is so much to learn just watching this old guys axes and how they swing it. Knowledge overload.
great video, I agree with you! and happy to here the side notes on the carpenter axes. I have a lot of "weird" french pattern axes I try to makes some notes about the adventages and disaventages of them one day
Fantastic information and no B.S. as usual Ben
This video was awesome!!! Also extremely useful information and food for thought in regards to my own felling. As I am mostly clearing up old farmland I generally fell trees flush with the ground, partially due to me being a cheapskate wanting the most firewood possible, but also to help hasten the process of returning overgrown land back in to useful farmland for the farmers I do this sort of thing for... If you happen to have any more info on the old style of european/scandinavian way of felling leaving little to no trunks behind, any links, more info on axes grinds, videos or so, I'd be very thankful for any bit of information. As always from you, supreme videos!!! keep up the good work! All the best in health and strength from a cold (but no longer very snowy) sweden! /peter
My faourites playlist has lots of old videos i saved that may be of interest kzhead.info/channel/FLFuQG2KIdIbvS6YQTODmz3g.html
@@benscottwoodchopper thanks!!! massive library of good stuff!!!
Great video
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I find this to be very interesting and it's true that for American axes there is much more knowledge available compared to European axes. This is maybe the best video about history of axes I've ever seen! Can't even find words...
Brilliant. I now have a video to reference when someone is arguing about how awesome "their axe" is compared to others. They are all awesome just depends what your doing and if you picked the correct one for the job. Same logic that you don't use a sheetmetal hammer for carpentry.
Cool and well reasoned. Thx!
Great presentation!
Great stuff Ben! There is always more than meets the eye.
Thanks Ben. Very interesting stuff.
Many questions of mine answered, great work.
This video was really interesting!
Awesome video!
Very informative Ben. thanks for posting.
This was very well made. I’ve watched it twice now. Excellent job sir. Very informative
Thank you for taking the time to research all that precious information and footage!!!
This was very well done, sir! I learned several things.
Awesome video thanks
Very nice video pal
Excellent video.
Nice video. The effort you put into this really paid off:)
Sterling work Ben!
06:36 I like how the left guy looks teice at the camera, he is like:"hah, pretty nice hah?" ^^
Great video Ben! Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce information on what is quite an obscure and very interesting subject. 👏👏
Wonderful vid. I find the Swedish turpentine pattern with the ears and narrow bevel to be excellent at cutting deadwood. It cuts very deep even in hard, dry woods, so it's good for bushcraft. Only possible probelm would be rehafting, so a Rinaldi might be even better, but they've bought them all out.
Brilliant video, maybe the best you've made so far 👍 Will share it with my audience
Brilliant video! Thankyou very much for all the effort it must have taken
Nice Work Dude. What a Revelation to a Swiss Axeman!
A very interesting video and very informative. Excellent
Fabulous footage
Great video. Learning about the different axe patterns, and the history and purpose behind them, was probably the thing I enjoyed the most when I first began my interest in axes. Its still such an interesting aspect for me. And the old time footage of loggers and the timber industry still blows my mind every time I see them.
Excellent video as usual, very informative and to the point. Fabulous historical footage. You are extremely knowledgeable on the subject and I appreciate the luxury of pertinent details. One thing I feel should have been done with some protection is your demonstration at 5.20. Accidents do happen even in demonstrations. Stay safe always.
Oh right yeah i always wear my chain mail foot and shin protection. that clip was for demo purposes only because some asshole kept calling me out and saying what i was teaching was dangerous kzhead.info/sun/pdush7lvZIOmkoU/bejne.html
Ben, thank you for your reply which directed me to the video in question. For some reason I went there before finishing typing my reply to yours and your reply is now gone. The error is mine obviously, sorry about that and thank you much for taking the time to reply. Happy New Year to you ! Oh !! Now it's back. U Tube !?
Great video, I really like this type of analysis. Townsend's makes an 18th century pattern French felling axe, it looks like a beast, thin profile but it weighs 4 lbs.
Interesting!
Excellent!
Well said mate!
Great video Ben. There's always a good reason for everything in the old Europe: head patterns, wood used for handles, axe sizes..... Now most people use axes just for splitting and chainsaw for everything else, but there's a visceral feeling doing all with an axe....😬
@benscott man o man have things change in the lumber industry in the last 2 years!!!! A huge fire in the pacific northwest has skyrocketed prices 😳! We are cutting closer the bottom now, I say that!
good vid, chopped Berlin type today
Man that was an interesting video, you need to write a book on this stuff!! Continuing the design discussion, what is the development evolution behind the Kent pattern style of axes
i think the kent pattern has a similar logic behind it to the russian axes, just a general no nonsense workers tool that can do everything an average man might need to do
I’m not sure if you have done this already because I am a new viewer, but you obviously know a good amount and do your research. But I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the many patterns of American, Canadian and probably Australian axes (I said those because they seem very similar when compared to the European styles). Great work 👍
Very interesting
your stuff is really feeding this axe deep dive im on
that old footage... imagine showing up to a lumberjack job in a three piece suit!
Wow those old axe handles were thin! Two or three times the size they come now.
Great video! Probably your best! So in regards to your conclusion on what most people use axes for these days, Ie carving and light felling/splitting, which axe would you recommend at this moment in time?
Some sort of Rhineland pattern or Rinaldi of course!
I reckon he would go for a GBA small forest axe with a custom handle with big sticky out shoulders and a laminated palm swell......
Excellent video Ben. Much appreciated! Could you be so kind to recommend an axe for felling and limbing beech? Up to 20cm diameter, so fairly small trees.
Rinaldi calabria 1.3kg, hultafors 1.5 or 1.2kg axes
Thank you kindly. I was mocking about on the interwebs and ordered a 1kg Hachas Jauregi Basque Axe before I read your comment. I think however I might have an old and slightly beat up Hultafors after my Grandad somewhere in the basement. Thanks for the tip!
Good video!👍 Are you familiar with any historical Viking and Anglo Saxon axes and other tools? Not the nonsense you see in Hollywood or in video games, but the stuff that was excavated from burial sites etc. I'd be interested to see you look into the various finds. The best known example is probably the Mastermyr find - a chest full of tools. There's all sorts of axes found at Hedeby, Birka, Gotland in Scandinavia. The UK has the Hurbuck hoard, not quite as well known but has some very interesting small T axes and adzes. I've made one T axe based on the find and more planned. Also have a look at the Petersen axe typologies which shows a lot of axes that were around at the time. I'm planning to make at least one example of each pattern - assuming my back and the rest of my aching joints allow me to get some work done!
i have seen quite a lot of histroical axes and tools in museums, particularly roman and anglo saxon. might talk about it at some point but right now i couldnt say anything definitive
@@benscottwoodchopper I'll keep an eye out for when you get around to it!👍
wish you had links to all these old logging videos
Ill add the links tonight in the description
@Ben Scott I have developed an interest in the basque axes but got one question which I think you already answered but can't find where. Is the weight given for the basque axes the headweight or does it refer to the total weight of the axe? Greetings
Total wieght, subtract about 300 grams to get head wieght
From where does this picture come from 16:37? Thanks in advance.
Awesome video. I have wondered this stuff for years. Now I’m wondering how did the Europeans aim that tree they were felling? Cutting a tree so low to the stump, all the way around the circumference of the tree looks like it’s just going to drop wherever gravity takes it? I’m sure they have a method though. Very cool stuff.
they still cut a face cut in like normal
Never knew about the ground chopping they did in Europe. Here in the olympic peninsula people would turn the stumps into homes and live in them.
On my second time through, I found myself wondering what your thoughts and research has led you to think about the development of the double-bitted axe. My understanding is that while very old Doubles have been found in the Middle East, double-bitted forestry axes were originally a West Coast development in America. Is that correct? And what do you think prompted the demand? Thanks
double bits have been used in parts of the mediteranean, most ive seen are bronze though, perhaps becasue a bronze edge deformed easily it helped a lot more to have 2
Hey Ben, This week i tried bucking for the first time with my Dayton axe and another simiöar to your Berlin pattern. (160 mm axe head lenght+650 mm handle/200 mm axe head lenght+700 mm handle) I hanged them long time ago so toe, heel and handleend are not in line. I had an easier time with the shorter head+shorter handle Dayton, it was less akward aiming. I watched the Tuatahi YT Axe hanging video and he said so it can be used for underhand and standing, if the 3 point line up. Now from my recent expirience, looking at the hangs of my müller biber/and this videos axes is having a lineup of the 3 points only relly important when bucking? Its not too important for limbing or felling? (Sorry, for asking again, i forgot this info over time, not having need for new hangings for years)
if the 3 points line up it is nice but i think that applies to different situations axe heads and handle types. on a racing head it makes a big difference though
Ever used a side axe? Or hewing axe? And do you know where to buy in UK?
Just got one actually. An old ochsenkopf in great condition. Very few people still makr thrm so old is the better option
@@benscottwoodchopper just purchased a side hatchet, in mint condition from the 60's!
Who does everyone think makes the best axes? Mostly been looking at Gransfors Bruks and Ochsenkopf or but always open to suggestions
Ochsenkopf, Hultafors, Rinaldi, Council tool and Mueller Hammerwerk
Do you follow dead fish on Instagram? He always doing stuff with crazy french patterns. I like to carry 2 axes and let's face it I ain't walking for 10-15 miles into the woods before starting work. Be interested in you take on the difference in billhook patterns.
souce on 8:36 video please
Great video! I've bought several vintage axes including two similar to the berlinpattern but with an american eye and therefor much thinner. I also bought an old harzer axe because I think they look cool. But No matter what (or wich? please correct me) Axe I've used for driving wedges, they seem to rather deform than driving the wedge eventhough Buckin Billy talks about how great this and that axe will be for driving wedges. Is he using plastic wedges or come all american axes with a hardened pole? Anyway for sharpening I use Pferd files. They have an own cut called Pferd-Plus. Have you ever tried these? Btw another video from german forestry but this time on falling a tree with axes kzhead.info/sun/nKpye8uMrImmdmg/bejne.html
axes are not reccomended for driving wedges. bucking uses plastic which is fine, but aluminium is dodgy and steel wedges is a no. That's what sledgehammers and mauls are for. American axes do not have a hardened poll except the 'rafting' pattern, but even that has a tendency to crack in the eye. there simply isn't enough reinforcement there hardened or not
@@benscottwoodchopper do you know if the "spaltfix" axe from Ochsenkopf is suitable for driving wedges of any kind? I'm not sure if they're hardened at the pole but if they are there is enough material backing up. I planned to buy the schlegelaxt but I couldn't find a cheap one on eBay so I bought a set of three axes including one spaltfix and because he sent it very late, he put two spaltfix in instead of one. For 32 euros I found it a very good deal even without the second one.
@@frankbauer2561 Schreib Ochsenkopf mal, die haben mir innerhalb von 2 Tagen geantwortet. :)
@@Luca-gj4yi An welche E-Mail? Ich habe schonmal geschrieben aber keine Antwort bekommen. Vielleicht ja die falsche Adresse...
@@frankbauer2561 info@gedore.com
Ce sont les Basques qui ont importés la ,façon et les techniques d'abattages au tout début du siecle!!!
I love my American axes :)
I like both for different jobs
Stupid youtube not sending my comment: Here is a study on the Benelux/Ardennes/Cognee Pattern axe in Netherlandisch language, but thankfully deepl exists. If you want i can sent you the version in german i translated for me, but its not perfect. docplayer.nl/30383302-De-aks-met-lange-dille.html
So you're saying that America has lost yet another battle XD
I believe the long nose European felling axes with the short edge length are specialist axes for felling thicker trees, from a time before saws became common. I think there is also a lot of Dane axe and Viking axe DNA in the European axes with thin heads and longer edge lengths. Ironically the commercial Scandi forges are mostly making American-style designs these days. Hultafors claims that thin axe heads are prone to "splintering", i.e. shattering if struck on a hard surface. I think this can be true in the hands of an inexperienced user and with a very hard mono-steel head. However the truly traditional scandinavian axe heads were laminated with soft steel on the outside and hard steel inside so they probably never saw a whole axe head shatter those days. As such, an American-style design tends to be both easier to make (from the blacksmithing perspective) and less of a liability for safety concerns.
Don't know. But I don't fight it cool to see those giants of nature being taken down by the ultimate destroyers of nature. Men. It's almost sacrelegious... It reminds of the scene in lord Of The Rings where the Orcs take down the trees. Humans are bit like that as well.. The Amazon is also at risk due to the fools. Sorry for the rant. But those pics of giant trees being chopped down is not my cup of tea.
The destruction of nature is caused by overpopulation and big businesses, not the men standing in those pictures. I don't enjoy the idea of destroying such grand forests, but the men who did the job were just trying to make a living and what the accomplished was incredible. I see it as similar to war, war is horrible but you can still appreciate acts of heroism or endurance in terrible conditions.
@@benscottwoodchopper I agree that it's the overpopulation and big corporation doing the damage. But without the footsoldiers, there's no damage being done. I have taken down trees in the past for my job as well. Not as huge as these ones in the video. They were standing in the dunes, and they were planted there as a project for the unemployed. And then the trees had to go again because 'they didn't belong there '. I agree that the men were making a living. But that's a bit like washing ones hands in innocence. The Germans called it 'befehl ist befehl'. No heroism there. Just being a pawn on the chess board. Or as said in Apocalypse Now, " You are an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill".