E8 1969 GTO Judge what makes it a true (THE JUDGE)
2021 ж. 16 Мау.
36 632 Рет қаралды
1969 Pontiac GTO Judge what makes it a Judge and not just a GTO or even worse it's just a LeMans after paying top dollar for what you thought was the real thing. It's hard to tell if it is real Judge or not. I will share some easy identifying details to remember If in case you ever get in a situation of a lifetime so you can be informed on what to do buy or pass.
we also did a video on a 1969 TransAm convertible
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• E2 69 Trans Am convert...
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#GTO #Judge #Pontiac
I also scored a 1969 GTO for $500 in 1988. I bought it from a body shop in Inglewood, California; it was parked in the back of the lot under long tube florescent lights (the car was covered in pigeon shit). It was not running but in 2 days I had the base 400 4bbl fired up, idling & running perfect. It had the dual-gate auto shifter. A pressure wash removed all the bird poop to reveal the original Verdoro green in surprisingly good condition. No rust or body damage. The black bucket seat with console interior was also in very good shape. All it really needed was tires so I put a set of Pontiac Rally 2s with BF Goodrich tires I had stashed & I had one sweet ride for hella cheap. What is that same GTO in that condition worth today? I don't recall the mileage but yeah, it was a legit "survivor" so about $30 to $40,000 maybe more. It's one of those I'm STILL kicking myself in the ass for- I sold it a week later for $1000...
You just don’t know, it’s hard to read the future. You still doubled your money and got a heck of a story you will never forget. Still an awesome find Shame some one left it for dead. I wonder why?
I'm Crying Right Withya.😢
I Like Your Video... I bought a '69 GTO for my Younger Brother in the late 80's Running and Driving for only $800. Thanks for Sharing
That is awesome! if only we could find a deal like that today! Does he still have it?
Bought one in 1976 for 400 bucks. It had jumped time. One owner. A girl in Atl had it. A quick timing chain and gear and it was back to the street. Verdoro green, white interior. Way too fast for a 16 yr old kid. It got me in so much trouble :)
$400!! Wow if we only knew what it would be worth now Back then. I am sure the memories are priceless and worth it and it’s must have been a blast to drive.
I’m a bit late to the party but here’s a few other things to look for. If you have a Carousel Red car, look for the 72 on the data tag. This does not guarantee it is a Judge but even a non-Judge car born with Carousel Red would be a rare find. I believe also that the non-Judge trunk torsion rods are a bit too weak to hold the trunk lid ( with spoiler) open. I have had one from all 3 years of Judge production and still have the ‘69. Glad to see someone else is out there saving these first generation Firebirds. A lot of people give up after putting together one ‘69 front bumper assembly. Keep up the good work.
Yup different trunk springs for cars with spoilers, I have been lucky enough to get it to stay open by adjusting the to the stiffest setting. Also I have a big surprise coming up soon. I believe I have found a real 1969 judge in a storage unit waiting on the PHS to confirm. It has 242 VIN and It has 72/72 on the paint code and it’s a January build so if it is I suspect it’s on of the first 2,000 assembled. That early of a build it would have to be carousel red so Fingers crossed it’s the real deal. Might have to sell the fake goat to make room for a real one.
You've done your homework, I've been into Pontiac all my life, bought my first 1970 Judge in '73 for $2500, it was stolen in '81. I have another '70 now that I restored over a 4 year period. Mine is a numbers matching with 76k actual miles on the frame and body. I rebuilt the engine, a 455HO, and installed a 200-4R and Sniper fuel system, I still have the original transmission and fuel system. And you're right, the ONLY way to tell if it's an authentic Judge is through PHS.
Yes sir, thanks for watching. Nice car too. The 1970 orbit orange judge is a toss up for me which I prefer 1969 or 1970. The Holley snipper system do you like it is it working right?. I wanted to fuel inject my 494 Pontiac but wanted some real feedback from someone who installed it in a big cube Pontiac engine beforehand. Do you love it or not so much?
@@VinylVillageGarage The Sniper has been the best upgrade I've done, the only thing I suggest is get an in-tank fuel pump, Holley has one to fit A-body cars, just drop it in, wire it up and it's all good, no return line to fool with, the regulator is on the pump. The fuel pump that came with the Sniper (frame mounted) when I first ordered it left me on the side of I-40, so I ordered the in-tank and never looked back, that was roughly 5 years ago and I am more than happy with it. They now make a Sniper that's a direct replacement for Quadrajet, I just wish they had that when I ordered mine so I could use my Ram Air pan. I don't want to modify my pan, but did toss around the idea of ordering an aftermarket RA pan to modify. Sniper is a fuel system you won't regret.
@@Rick-Williams59 thanks for the info! I want to run the ram air pans as well. I will look into the qudrajet style throttle body and do the in tank pump. They are quieter and more reliable. What I have learned the Holley is the most preferred I feel much better knowing someone loves it on their Pontiac. Appreciate your input and response.
@@VinylVillageGarage I just came across this video and was reading the comments and noticed you asked about the holly sniper. I put a sniper on my engine. I have the 400 block with butler performance 467 crank kit and aluminum heads. I went from 6 mpg to 10 mpg. The drivability of the car is fantastic. Cold start equally good. I love being able to change fuel ratios from my seat. I can also change my timing from the controller also. I replaced my fuel tank with a kit that came with an in tank high pressure pump. I forget who made it. It fit perfectly. I did all the work myself in a weekend. I love it. The only downside is I’m slower and inconsistent at the drag strip. The best I’ve run with the sniper is 12.08. The carburetor was consistent 11.90. It’s only 2 tenths. But the drivability and gas savings are worth it. I may have figured out the inconsistency. In the past I would drive to the track with my air breather installed. I would then remove my breather and start my runs. It would always start at around 12.40. Then get faster every run. 12.30, 12.18, 12.08. It probably will run in the 11’s again if I made enough runs. My theory is that because it’s a learning system it’s learned how much gas to give with the amount of air it gets with a breather. Without the breather it has more air and it has to learn to adjust. Next time I’m going to drive to the track with no breather so it can learn before I get there. I hope it works out for me. We’ll see. It doesn’t really matter because it’s a street car and I only go once every year or two for fun. Sorry this is so long. I hope it helps you with your decision.
Yup this was what I was looking for, I decided if I where to go efi Holley was the brand just wanted some feedback. I was going to use the Holley distributor too. Like you said the on board timing changes can be made thru the programmer too if you lock out or use the Holley distributor. I would like the ecm to have control and adjustability of both fuel and spark. Appreciate you taking the time to let me know. Thank you!
i have a buddy went to a swap meet back at early 90s bought a gto judge ram air 3 for $2000,its finaly restoted and even found the build sheet,he was offered 300k for it,he turned down the offer
Thats awesome. Imagine finding that today. I would likely not sell either, can’t replace it. Lucky him and great car.
$300k for a RAIII Judge? Was it a convertible in some sort of rare color? The more sought after RAIVs barely brought that type of money a few years back when prices were at an all time high. You can have a number matching concours winner RAIII for around $100k. There’s a beautiful RAIII liberty blue 4spd judge around the corner from me and the guy can’t even get a nibble on for $100k. Full rotisserie number matching car with all documentation.
Awesome car, but for 300k, I'd sell and buy another Judge for less, and add few other sweet rides to my collection.
Even if it wasn't a Judge $1200 is well worth it! My father and I saved a 1971 Pontiac lemans GT-37, from a junkyard in N.C for $312 dollars. We do have a PHS and 2 build sheets. Was a 350 car. Not numbers matching, so a 07 L92 6.2L will be installed.
Gt37 is an awesome find! The stealth GTO was the plan. Going LS swap is a great idea! Good luck with your build and thanks for sharing.
@@VinylVillageGarage Thanks! Going to need it. Car needs floors, trunk pans,quater panels. Before the 6.2L goes in.
Sounds like a great project, I enjoy the sheetMetal work part of the build. Stick with it and keep it fun.
@@VinylVillageGarage Thanks,going to be a learning curve!
Your right brother!
We ordered our 69 Judge in Oct-Nov 1968. It took 6 to 8 weeks for delivery. My comment pertains to the glove box emblem. Ours was one of the first Judges available in New York state. It came with the glove box emblem. The emblem was not a stick on, rathet it was hwld on with 2 rivets attached to the inner section of the door (not visible when door was open). If you slide a business card behind the emblem you will emvounter the 2 rivets on a resl Judge.. i have heard numerous accounts that the for the girst six months thr Judges did not vome with emblrms. OURS DID!
Wow. It’s possible yours did. The emblem was attached as you described with two holes . All the books I have read said the first 2000 promotional cars did not have the badges Clearly not the case here. To have that car now and prove them all wrong would be amazing! Do you still have the car by any chance? You could cause a rewrite of the books with it
You use a flexible additive for the front endura bumper! PERIOD!
I did but when you scrape a brick wall it doesn’t matter what kind of paint you use.
@@VinylVillageGarage EXACTLY!!! it's called an "Endura" bumper.....not an "indestructible" bumper!!...Lol!!😆
Wow.. ok I’m 16 and it is NOTHING BUT my dream to get that car. The fact you had my luck to get that for $1,300????
I was lucky nearly 20 years ago. Keep in mind this is just a LeMans dressed up as a Judge. That makes it a lot cheaper to own and drive of course. I love it just the same and you keep searching there are still some good deals out there! Good luck And great taste in cars too!
@@VinylVillageGarage Thing looks real other than the missing tac. Thanks I’m looking for a GTO to make into a clone. A real one is nice but I don’t have 80 grand. Plus why would you want a real one? It’s a hassle and more money
@@thejudgefrom69 I have a real Judge and it cost no more than any other vehicle to drive and maintain and it's certainly not a hassle, it's a pleasure, but some parts are getting a little harder to find.
@@thejudgefrom69 I agree!! If you spend that kind of money on a real one.... You can't even really enjoy it because most people would be too afraid to drive it.... Unless you're a millionaire or something, lol! Honestly the best thing to do is build a clone. They still look and perform like the real thing..... And you can have fun with it!.... Which is what these cars were built for! Not for parking in a garage never seeing the light of day. And the good news is..... There's still plenty of relatively decent Lemans bodies out here in the world, so finding one that's priced within reach shouldn't be too much of a problem!🙂 Don't give up on that dream buddy! It is attainable!.... And it feels good being the only guy with an awesome car in an endless sea of Hondas and throwaway cars!!🙂
I remember watching you sand and buff that front bumper in our TP shop. Good times watching the Lemans (Transform-er) into LeGoat. Great to see sharing your knowledge and skill with everyone.
Lol that was a couple years ago now. I don’t think I can ever sell the LeGoat my oldest daughter has taken claim to it and for some reason I can’t tell her no. Thanks for checking in, had a lot of great memories from to old TP most of the where story time with Brian.
Nice Car Buddy
Thanks!, I have owned it for 15 years. it’s on the list for a revamp still working on build plan. it seems I keep buying and finding more projects. someday I will decide what to do with it. until then just keep running the wheels off it I suppose. appreciate the feedback.
Spoiler ends should touch the quarters, not float above them. There was bout 1/8" foam cushioning under each spoiler end. Also top of spoiler should be level not sloping back. The spoiler required heavier duty trunk hinges to support the extra weight too. Otherwise trunk lid tends to slam or even not stay up when opened.
Yup different part number for vehicles with spoiler. I adjusted mine to the stiffest setting and it Stays up great at car shows. Lucky maybe or maybe the repop spoiler is lighter then the OE one. Thanks for sharing
I had purchased new ($3,467.00 including tax & license) a left-over 1969 GTO "Judge" from Dolman Pontiac in Inglewood, CA in early 1970, no hood tach, no air conditioning, after having it a few years and continually having the dealership changing out the cast-iron header exhaust gaskets (Pontiac intentionally did not drill-out the middle-center flanges in which to bolt the headers to the heads on both sides of the engine, only two (2) end bolts held the damn things on leaving the center sections vulnerable to blow-out the exhaust gasket, fortunately, they didn't warp.... I had a friend who worked in a machine shop and he & I drilled out the flanges, heads were drilled & tapped from the factory). Other than the GM typical "B" body rear window channel rusting out the car was fun to drive with the Muncie 4-speed and 4:33 rear gears, ran 104 mph in 14 seconds flat at Lions Drag Strip back in the day !!
What a DEAL!! Having fun and jamming gears. I assume you don’t have it anymore.
@@VinylVillageGarage Sold it in 1977 .... it needed those 4: 33 rear-end gears to get those 366 horses down the strip
Fantastic car and great memory it seems to go with it. Thanks for sharing
You are right about the 242 GTO, you forgot about 72 for Carousel Red. Sale it to me for 20 grand.
you are correct. my oldest daughter has claimed this car. she came home from the hospital in this car after being born. it is the first car she ever rode in.
Carousel Red in 1970 is the rarest of that color ! Paint 65
2500 is a great deal, some muscle cars in top shape are going for $40k to 90k now. GREAT DEAL.
The prices seem to be going up for project cars too. I just looked at a 1968 Firebird, nice car but five years ago could have picked it up for $3-5k. Now he is asking quite a bit more. I hope he gets it. Too much for me.
Oh my God, this is a 100k+ car!
I only wish it was a original judge. fortunately I didn’t pay the money for a real one. still love driving it as if it was. thanks for watching.
Cant wait to make a vid on my 69 GTO judge soft top love to hear her rumble. They dont sound like that anymore.
Awesome GTO judge drop top. Ram air IV by any chance? Could not agree more. No replacement for displacement.
@@VinylVillageGarage Ya nothing better then old school
Just found your channel and thanks for all the info and all the tips. Do u have a ballpark price on this?? Do u have any others for sale? I'm not to far from u im around owensboro ky. Thanks take care
Thanks for finding my channel, playing cars is the name of the game, mostly Pontiacs. I don’t know of any currently, I had a lead on a real 1969 judge but it cold and now I can’t get a response. If something real turns up I normally post a video on it and purchase info as well
@VVG Firebird Restoration Station your welcome. Ok cool I appreciate the fast feedback.
Thanks john, appreciate your thoughts on the door!
Anytime. And good luck on your project
NOT ALL JUDGES HAD THE GLOVE BOX DOOR JUDGE EMBLEM!
Yup the first group where a promotional run all carousel red and did not have the badge. After that you could get them in any color you wanted. As stated in the video
Another tidbit, mine does not have the GTO emblem as most non-A/C cars do in place of the vent, there was a shortage of them when it was built. It does have a glove box emblem.
Yes, mine didn't, but it was a Judge. Bought in 1980 for $2000 in Toronto area.
The ONLY WAY to know if it's a real ram air 4 judge, or a judge period, is to get a PHS report!
Exactly, I stated that toward the end of the video. The idea of the video was if you don’t have time to wait for PHS documents what to look for. The judges where cloned from almost day one so before I would pay top dollar most definitely get the PHS report
I have the same engine in my GTO it came out of a wrecked 71 Firebird Formula because I blew up the original 389. Now I’m rebuilding a 400 that was out of a 69 GTO that I bought for 100$
No shame in that, keeps the car on the road till you get that 400 going. $100 engine is a BARGAIN!
I like it! Put a bad ass 400 in it n have fun. Keep Pontiac alive!
I like the sound of that thanks for the Pontiac vote. I had a nice 455 in it but had oil pressure issues. I hope to figure out why and put it back in the car. Talk about a tire shredding torque monster. thank you for watching and comments.
Still looks pretty awesome clone! Well you’ve done your homework! 👌😎👍
Thank you. I may never own a real judge but I have a huge appreciation for them and all the things that make them special
Hey jon, quick question. I need a new 1968 driver door shell, can i get your opinion on what you think a quality repop door shell would be? Thanks for your time
I like AMD then OER brand. I have used other brands and all have pros and cons. Even AMD but they normally have the least issues
Had a 69. Not the Judge. 400 4bbl 4speed Hurst Muncie Trans. I was 19. I managed to trash 3 engines blow two rear ends, bend the drives haft and t bone the endura off the front drifting it in the local Kmart parking lot. A year later I sold what was left and bought a one ton Ford. Dad always said "Boy, you sure are hard on things." If he only knew.
Nice. Normally these old cars can take the abuse but I have gone thru a couple engines too. How did the Ford hold up in comparison to the GTO?
@@VinylVillageGarage I'm still driving trucks but the Sunday ride is a 74 Cat 4 door hardtop. Nice 400 4bbl with turbo 400. 325 hp with dual Flowmasters. It's a sleeper. I wish I still had the goat but it probably would have killed me! Man I'm 70 but still have that compelling need for speed. You know your stuff. A rare man in a world full of Bull shitters. I'm subed Ford is long gone. It left my hands in one piece.
Nice! Catalina with a 400 I bet the look on the unsuspecting other drivers you leave behind is priceless. I still have the need for speed, slowing down a little as I get a little older and having kids lighten my foot a little more. I have no issues putting them in the back of the seat on hard launches and the occasional donut is necessary. My little ladies almost expect it and have no problem doing it for them. Their laughter makes it worth it. Huge thanks for watching and your input. Keep that Pontiac going!
I miss Kmart. And Pontiac😢
Your wing is a repo. Factory wings touch the fenders with the end pads and have a weep hole under them.
Yes it is I bought it for $150 bucks years ago off eBay. It even has the wrong color decal. The point of this video is to spot a fake. Doesn’t mean it’s not a nice car if it is. It means don’t give your life savings to buy one without doing some research. Good eye! You get what I am saying those little details add up to spot a fake. thanks for sharing
AWESOME DUDE
Thanks
Great video! I was wondering if you knew what to look for on a 1970 Judge ???
Thank you! I am not as familiar with the 1970 details but it still holds true Pontiac historical society “PHS” is the only way to prove it. I can say it should have a rear deck mounted spoiler and “the judge” badge on the glove box door for the 1970 model.
@@VinylVillageGarage Thank you.
@@VinylVillageGarage once again, YOU'RE WRONG! Not all 70 Judges had the glove box emblem either!! Just like the 69 DIDN'T EITHER!!
Awesome!😀
Not bad for a 20 year old restoration
I read way back that the Judges also had 1 of the two trunk lid torsion bars was bigger than the other. It was to support the weight of the wing.
You are correct they had a heavier “spring” bar. I adjusted mine to the stiffest setting and surprisingly it holds up even outdoors. Thanks for reminding me I almost forgot that detail. Much appreciated!
Thanks Jon
anytime friend
There are alot of Lemans and firebird for sale out in the country. If you can't find a GTO or Formula or Trans am and want one well there. It. Would be great to see more of these cars on the road. It really doesn't matter as long as your having fun. :- )
Well put and could not agree more! Thanks
I paid a 1,000 for mine, code 72/72, so carousel red top and bottom, the first week of March 69 they started with black stripes... I missed that by a few weeks...I love the blue. Mines 4 speed, R/A 3 with hideaways no power steering. A good tell tale sign, no 69 Judges were built before January 1969. Cool car, I love clones cause you can build it anyways you want.
Wow. You did good $1,000!!!. If only I was smart enough in the 80s to snag up these old cars when they where really cheap.
$10-$15,000 as it sits. The 350 is killing it. A Butler build 400 would get you double the price in my opinion. But may actually cost the extra 15 too.
It’s a temporary solution till i fix or find a replacement 400/455.
@@VinylVillageGarage things happen for a reason. How about a stock 69 400 RamAirlll 350HP ready to drop in engine from a SD gp with alt, dist, 4 bl carb. All still attached? Whats it worth to ya? 🤔 It would actually be the correct engine for a 69 judge also. Man you would have a true judge then.
@@VinylVillageGarage i have a correct engine for a 69 judge
It would be amazing under the hood but more than I can afford at this time I am sure. Spent a few bucks on one of my other cars trying to replenish play money right now. I am interested for sure
@@VinylVillageGarage its not going anywhere soon if later you win the lottery lol, i have a 69 gto to put it in or a 68 conv. But i did have a guy wanting my 69 for his own 455. Time tells all tales. Im not dead yet and when 20 years has rolled by already, whats another 5 or 10.
Imho....Leave it all Pontiac! Just build another 400.....but this time with bulletproof internals! Butler Performance could steer you in the right direction with that.🙂💯
I agree The Butler people are great to work with super helpful and they know their stuff. They helped with my 494 build for my Firebird. I have a 455 sitting on the shop floor that will most likely find its way back under the hood. The 350 just doesn’t make it go well enough.
1200$ you kidn me .
Nope I really paid only $1,200 for it. But that was nearly 20 years ago, it’s was completely disassembled, pile of parts, needed painted and ITS ONLY A LEMANS. Still a good deal.
@@VinylVillageGarage i paid 600 for my 69 back in 93. back then these cars were all over and cheap not so much these days. my 68 400 car i traded a 62 nova for in the 80s and it has its original motor but not trans.
Lemans
To me it wouldnt matter if its a real GTO / Judge or a Lemans ,its still a cool looking car,I would make sure its still solid and then chuck an LS motor in it, you get the performance and the style.
I could not agree more with you, LS power is budget friendly and extremely reliable.
Good “Gomer” act ! 🤣
Thanks!
My boss has 3 real PHS Judges for sale. All 3 are big projects. Two Carousel red 1969's and a Palladium 70.
Wow. How close to Indianapolis are they?
southern Minnesota@@VinylVillageGarage
@bobsilver3983 that’s a bit of a drive. Does he have them listed for sale Any place like market place
not yet, but if you want to come look at them we can work it out. A guy that is buying a 1967 400 engine from him tomorrow wants to look at the projects. He also has a 64 tri power GTO, a 69 Convertible and a 70 convertible for sale. Everything he has is PHS documented. He has lots of parts as well...if you come you can see his restored and survivor stuff as well. He has a 71 Judge getting restored right now. Another cool one in line for resto is a 65 GTO tri power 4 speed convertible...thats very rare. @@VinylVillageGarage
Regardless of how bad you broke the Ram Air 4 motor do you still have the broken block ?
I had a ram air 3 that I killed. If it was a ram air 4 I would never forgive my self for destroying one of those. I would ground myself from playing cars anymore.
Got four Pontiac rims original 67 Pontiac Firebird do you think you might need them
Possibly depends on how much and where.
@@VinylVillageGarage I live in North Texas right down the street from DFW
@@VinylVillageGarage the original rims for a 67 Firebird convertible 14 inch $50 each
Dude I can't believe u left out that the real 69 judge has a hood tach 😂🤣
Hood tach option “471” was an option on the judges. Very popular but not standard equipment, not even the dash mounted tach was standard on the judge. You could get on with no tach. I personally like the hood tach, when I redo this car I plan to add one and possibly a 4 spd too.
Even though it’s not real GTO it’s still an awesome car 😎
Thanks. I brought my baby girl home from the hospital in this car. First car ride In a vintage Pontiac! She is now 11 and staking claim to it. I feel rightfully so.
A Carosal Red '69 GTO is a fucking righteous car. Bummer it ain't a stick. Nothing wrong with the Pontiac 350, a joint called Rock & Roll Engineering build stout ones. 600+hp from a 350 with a little sniff of nitrous. I own a limited edition car, 1 of 1000, thankfully verifying it is pretty easy, if you need to know, you better learn.
The Pontiac 350 does have potential to be a strong running engine, it typically gets overlooked because it costs about the same to build a 400 so that was the way people went. 455 and 400 blocks aren’t as common now and the price for them is substantially more then a 350 so maybe we we see more being built
@@VinylVillageGarage The small bore turns some people off, but you can stroke a 350 to 413ci, and with modern cam profiles, it'll be way better than a stock 400. I'd love a Firebird, early second gens and first gens are awesome..and I'm a Subaru guy lol I can dream, a Firebird in New Zealand where I live is US$30,000+, easy.
@@brendangeraghty8865 wow! That’s a substantial price For a Firebird the last two I bought where less then $5,000 need some work of course but that is how I prefer them
@@VinylVillageGarage And that price is the low end, first gen Camaros are expensive, here, too. I just stuck to Japanese performance cars, we get them right off the boat from Japan. Cheap, too. Owned some cool cars over the years, but no American stuff, unfortunately.
It’s cool you are still playing with cars doesn’t matter the manufacturer, enjoy it. I feel by the time I leave this world all car will automated electric buggies we just sit in and go for a ride. Live it up however you can.
So far LS turbo swap is taking the lead on what we should do with the car. Cast your vote!
How much you got to have?
@@anavrinhsub6081 this one is not for sale, now the 1968 Firebird convertible will be soon. I am replacing the floor pan it’s also on my channel.
Love the LS1 in my 2001 Trans am ws6! 190000 km an still pulls strong 💪
@@Guardian4ever LS engines are tuff to beat when it comes to durability, I am sure you will get several more miles out of it still
I owned what was called a pattern 69 judge I was told the first 600 I had checked with phs and it was a judge came from Canada
Really!?! That’s cool. Do you have a copy of the PHS still. I would love to see that. It’s an interesting piece of Pontiac history
I thought ALL GTO platforms Vin started with 242 Mine did
Yes you are correct. 242 means it’s a GTO. Mine is a lemans that looks like a GTO. The point of the video was to educate you on what to look for before you pay way to much for a clone or look alike
ONLY 66-71. 64,65,and all after 71 went back to the 237 vin.
I would put an LS engine in it. Nice car.
6.0 twin turbo comes to mind and use the hood openings for the inlets it what I am seeing if I went that way.
@@VinylVillageGarage That would be killer. Looking forward to the video whatever the decision. I had a 68 Firebird 400 back in the day. Was pretty much original. Had a little rust i fixed up. Rebuilt the engine with my buddy. Really enjoyed it.
That was a nice car. 400 in a bird is silly power for its size and just fun to drive. Stay tuned when I am done with the Great pumpkin project this car is on the list for upgrades.
03:50 whats with the headliner?
It’s a 18 year old restoration and due for a rework. Showing its age.
Send it down the road...hint😉
Lol. Ummmm nope. Me and that car have this wonderful love/ hate relationship that I could not live without.
Good information, once again! I say keep it and LS swap it!! 🤪
I really want to build a turbo engine that is something I have not attempted yet. Maybe someday……. 🤔
Screw the LS, if it is a real judge and ram air iv.... It's the hottest pontiac 400 made for the street. As a made up judge, fun driver and you can go ahead a hot rod it and have fun. Keep Indians all Indian. Suggestion Butler pontiac 467 engine with 600 hp and 600torque.
I have purchase a Stroker kit and mega brace from Butler Performance I feel they are the best you can get!. i went with the 4.5 stroke and ended up with 494 cubes. I am putting it in my high school car. 69 firebird. in the middle of a total resto now.
@@VinylVillageGarage that will pass anything but a gas station!
lol. yes that’s good way to put it! nice. my only hopes are that the transmission stays together. I am running a Muncie 4 spd. I have been collecting parts for 20 years for this car looking forward to its completion.
69 orignal hood had hood pins also yours does not. If I remember correctly .as a few friends way back in early 70,s had them .yes orange also .but 4 speeds .there was also wheel or body flair kits on some judges back then also . That you could not miss .when you seen the judge with body kits changed whole car from regular judge cars
I wish mine Was a four speed.
No they did NOT have hood pins from the factory. A lot of people did add them though.
I think you should keep it and put a 69 400 poncho engine back in it and keep it in the stock configuration
I had a 1969 400 when i assembled the car originally. Wish I didn’t break it. I was 22 years old Then I was a bit more silly or hard on the car. I have the 455 that was in it going to most likely repair it and place it back under the hood.
@@VinylVillageGarage best wishes to you
Thank you! I agree with you definitely keep it Pontiac powered.
@@VinylVillageGarage your welcome
Phs Phs Phs . If you’re gonna drop that kind of money . Spend the 200 first
Absolutely!
Unless the PHS prices went up from about a year ago when I requested my PHS. It was $85 if a person doesn't mind waiting 3 to 4 days to get it in the email. And it was $100 if you want it within 24 hours. So maybe the prices went up to $200 but either way definitely worth getting before making any buying decision
the color is carousel red, not orange...
Yup that always has been the proper name, but it’s still orange. I would never call it hugger orange that is offensive.
You have got to know Phil wheeler if not you should
Nope sure haven’t yet,
He lives in bowling Green ky on the road to beach bend drag strip turn left on GTO Heaven Dr.him and it goats is the only thing on that road . He loves goats and he's cool as a fan
@@benbusy7295 I will Have to make a detour next time I head south to visit family, sounds like my kind of people for sure!
I’ll give you 10k
Not for sale my daughter has staked claim to this car. It was the first car she ever rode in.
You got a killer deal I don't care if it's a real GTO Judge it is beautiful and you didn't get suckered! But I don't know if I could sell it. I think it's still worth way more than 1,200.00 dollars new 400 motor and with the corect heads would bring big money I am not into number matching cars really my 400 is a 1977 block that came out of a GTO and my heads are #62 block didn't even have to be bored! It's in my 1968 fierbird witch is 1,000 times safer and stronger and faster than a out of factory 68 400 just my opinion lol
Well thanks I have had this car for years. My oldest daughter has staked claim to this one. She is only 12 but I see her earring it at some point. I might still put the 455 back into it. Not sure at this point
@@VinylVillageGarage yes that would be nice she would love it and if something ever happens Hope to God it doesn't you still get big money for it if your going to give it to your daughter I would keep the 350 in I had a Oldsmobile 1969 442 that had the 455 man that thing had monster torture lol never lost a race in my group of friends that would race each other rolling start haha I broke the u bolts doing a take off once from a dead stop a lot of torque!
The torque of a 455 is amazing. Doing a rolling burnout at 30 mph by just stomping on the gas always brings a smile to your face. My daughter has to earn the car. Nothing is free in my world. Not sure what she has to do yet but we have a few more years before we have to figure that out.
I seen it has Indiana plates on it I live in Evansville Indiana there is supposed to be a guy that lives in Princeton Indiana that has a bunch of GTOs I'm currently building a 72 Camaro ive always wanted a 68 GTO . Nice car I'd put a 455 back in it
Good new the 455 is ready to reinstall. Hood to get it swapped back in soon.
jus got a 68 gto 242 car for free
WTH. That is awesomeness
who cares if its number matching bla bla bla the car turns heads im doing a rough one right now if mine looks as good as yours ill be very happy drive it have fun with it its a icon car fact
Could not agree more! Love my old Pontiacs love to drive them even more.
I think you should finish making it a judgeclone .ran air .car period.
I want to add the ram air parts to this. I found a nice kit to make it happen
1970 GTO Judge 382 Google that ! And that is a Firebird ? Soooo throw out all that badging thing ? Try this one to Google ! 1970 Trans Am 455 WT5 Or this one ! Pontiac WT5 Yes one more ! Police Enforcer WT5 All the same car ! P.H.S. Documented ! Body by Fisher ! Built in March of 1969 for 70 ! Not 70 1/2 ! 1st car 2nd Gen Last hand ✋ built American made car ! Facts can be puzzling 🤓
now all that is quite interesting. I will never know it all and welcome fun facts especially oddities!!! thank you for sharing. I love this stuff.
@@VinylVillageGarage No one could ever know! They kept so many c.o.p.o Secrets ! Oooops did I say C.O.P.O ! On a PONTIAC ! Beautiful car you have ! And a story with your daughter 👍 Make a Pontiac hit the road ! Then Flog it !
thanks I love these old cars and hope to keep the “excitement”going for many more years. it seems you have a lot of fun with them too and their history. much appreciated, keep these cars alive
I Google the Vin for my 74 and it came back as a Yugo. Lmao. Hell, the hood weighs more than a yugo.
You stole it.. lucky you..
Thanks, it was disassembled and almost 20 years ago of course. I hear stories of people buying what they thought was the “real” deal and got ripped off because it was a fake. I hate for anyone to get misled. my goal was to educate both the seller and buyer on how to protect themselves on these old cars or get the right money out of them. Thanks for watching
@@VinylVillageGarage just read a bunch of other comments.. seems to me like there's a lot of jealous people out there..
Could be, either way I love these old Pontiac’s and willing to share my knowledge or experience with anyone who might be interested
Too many commercials!!!!
I wish it wasn’t that way, KZhead adds commercials to everything even channels that aren’t monetized
$1200 for a lemans in pieces in 2000 was an average price, if it wasn't all rusted out. A bit of "click-bait" going on here. With the exterior looking the way it does, you should've turned your attention to the drive-train. 350 automatic with judge badges is embarrassing. Can't really call it a "restoration", if you didn't do the whole car. It's more of a paint job, if nothing else. Post another video, once you get the drivetrain done. Maybe a Butler built 462, with a Jerico 4 speed. Then it would be something to post about.
I plan to put the 455 back in once I solve the oil pressure issue. Doesn’t matter to us fake or real how pretty the paint or decals are I think our leGoat the fake judge is a wonderful car to drive.
Please don't Ls swap it. Jesus i love gm and Chevy and but ls swaps are played out. Put a 468 butler motor in her daddy warbucks! 😆 I'm a pontiac and a chevy guy my formula clone I'm building is the least desirable 3rd gen. But it's my perfect lil slice of the car world. Always loved the 400s and 455s but they have no place in the thirdgen architecture lol. Just line the ls had no place in that!
I have owned three third gens, my favorite was 89 GTA black/tan interior. miss that car but I had to many toys, if that’s even possible. I see third gens making a strong comeback and increase in value here soon. I have a 455 I want to put back in it if I can solve the oil pressure issue.
You need to change the title of your video, because this isnt even a REAL GTO!
Never said it was in the title, thumbnail or video. I was educating people how to tell the difference so you don’t get ripped off.
@@VinylVillageGarage youre not educating me about anything. And your TITLE IS INDICATING IT'S A JUDGE! You obviously dont understand english.
Alright, i won't rip you up here, because i see you're trying to help educate the ignorant world on Pontiac and keep them from getting ripped off. But $1200 Judge? Clickbait. Yes, you want views, i get it. And yes you should be super proud of building that car into what it is. You basically did the exact same thing GM did, take a LeMans and turn it into something else. Very little differences but shock stiffness, exhaust, engine, and trim. Hood, nose, and wing. Why does ad say 25k but you say 125k? Maybe intentional due to your intent? No dam old ladys ever drove bright flashy orange cars to get groceries either so stop the madness please. Actually i didn't rip you up at all and dont get offended. Now if you go ahead and do some stupid LS swapping in a Pontiac i will have to come find you and slap you. 🤗 btw not ALL Gtos start with 242. I corrected you in one of your posts. ONLY 66-71 had the 242 vin. 64&65 still had the 237 vin so its total buyer beware on those as every single lemans eventually was cloned to a gto to triple the sale price. 1972 vins are also all 237 lemans vin as the GTO was reduced to only an option package in 72 and 73. And in reality calling the car a "separate" model was b.s. because nothing different in tempest, lemans, OR gto when it comes down to its bones. Same frame, body, everything. Crazy how one digit can turn a car from a 10k car to a 100k. 🤔 i think i just answered my own question to you from above lol. Long live Pontiac. Nice work brother. 😺
I appreciate your feedback. I will be honest it’s clickbaity but it was to prove a theory. We as humans use emotion a lot of the time to make decisions good or bad and then we leave logic to the curb. So when we see something we like and think it’s a great deal we might start to miss the details like it is a FAKE. If my grandma owned this car she would have been awesome! Let’s be honest she did you yours probably didn’t but that’s part of the garbage that people feed us to get us to fall or buy something that is falsely represented. I made this video on a whim walked out to the driveway with a piece of Paper and a maker and went for it after watching a completely horribly misleading video on how this guy found a JUDGE and paid next to nothing for it. But it had none of the details that could potentially make it a judge plus the most important one PHS the only actual proof. Then when I questioned him on it still insisted it was real. Me being a human I used emotion to make a decision to do this video. Dang it I fell for! 🤦 lol My goal was to get people to stop and think and use logic and catch the details that matter and use wisdom before making a big decision. You Cleary are a stickler for details, you are the only person to mention my price tag heck Maybe the first to notice it too and that is perfect. I do respect someone that is Keen to the important details so I think you understand my goal. I don’t want to mislead or give false info only wanted to educate and inspire you to use your Brains and ask questions. I came clean I really did only pay $1,200 for that car and said it wasn’t a true GTO or judge. Yes you can hunt me down and slap me if I LS swap it too. I get it. Anyway thanks for watching and keeping me informed because I did miss the 242 details yes later ones lost the 242 in the vin and I forgot. Thanks for loving these old Pontiacs and help keeping them alive
@@VinylVillageGarage im just one of those guys who knows a lot about certain things and gto,lemans,tempest are one of those things. Ive owned them since i could drive. Funny, i cant rn but maybe get DL back sometime soon. Every gto in my area growing up was a lemans cloned to a gto clear back in the 80s 90s even. Very few made it around here but few lemans since lesser desired car. GTOs are the godfather of muscle cars so people hide and hoard them. I have a small collection of rare pontiacs and the only gtos i was able to luck upon were non-running gtos =dead+GOATs= me. 😁 the coolest find ever is a super rare 70 gt-37. Unfortunately left outside the barn and not in it. Video on my channel.
@@VinylVillageGarage ive seen goofballs at carshows who think a steel bumpered tempest with an Olds 442 wing was refered to as a "Judge" These are the same experts spouting off about their grand knowledge of cars. 😆 So continue to do as you are because someones got to educate em all. So many out there with chevy for brains.
Lol. You have just gained a new subscriber. I did what you are saying and thanks for saving a GT-37 cool piece of Pontiac history.
One thing Pontiac's in stock form do not like! high RPM. PUT A SUPER CHARGER ON IT, YOU LOVE THE SOUNDS AND FALL IN LOVE ALL OVER🤣🇺🇸💪🤳
Now we are talking! That would be an instant kick when hitting the loud pedal for sure
VIN 242 TELLS U ITS A REAL GTO. JUDGE IS OPTIONAL. PHS WILL TELL U FOR SURE. U SHOULD KNOW THIS.
Thanks
I'll give you $ TWELVE HUNDRED DOLLARS CASH , $ TWELVE HUNDRED SMACKEROOS YES , TWELVE HUNDRED SAMMOLIANS . THINK ABOUT IT !
Can’t sell this car, my daughter came home from the hospital In it. This was her very first car ride and now she is 11 and staking claim to it.