www.nationofblue.com / awireman Boyle County High School receives a technical foul prior to game.
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coach's responsibility for his teams' entry in the book
@TheMaloney226 жыл бұрын
When I was coaching I always made it a task of one of the assistant coaches to check the book with the scorekeeper and sign off on it prior to tip-off. This video is a cautionary tale to take the rules of the game seriously and be respectful to the officials when a discrepancy is found.
@josh.brunty Жыл бұрын
Please correct the title of this video. The scorekeeper did not make the error, the Boyle County head coach did. Before each game, the head referee has a meeting with the coaches and one of the key pieces of instruction is "check the book to make sure all of your players are listed." Once the head referee checks the book and signs off, then any player not listed is the head coach's responsibility. The Boyle County head coach was derelict in his duties.
@seansean45627 жыл бұрын
You are correct, but if the Boyle coach gave his roster correctly to the scorekeeper and the scorekeeper screwed up, the officials should've used a little thing called common sense and ignored it.
@dantru19906 жыл бұрын
@@dantru1990 NO. The Coach is supposed to check the Official Book or he can designate his Book Keeper to do so. It is in Black and White in the Rules Book. The Ref's job is to enforce the Black and White rules. He CANNOT ignore it. The Coach is learning a difficult lesson about not knowing and following the rules. The Ref is using Common Sense by hearing the coach out and by not T'ing him up for trying to influence the call. How many rules does the Ref have to not enforce in the name of "common sense"... should he not enforce rules on Uniforms, Language, Coaches Boxes, Bench Decorum? What is Common Sense... not doing your job... is that Common sense? Check the Book Coach if it has mistakes it is on YOU. CHECK THE BOOK. The rules cannot be more clear. This is VARSITY Basketball not PeeWees in the Church League.
@brucemercer77535 жыл бұрын
@@dantru1990 incorrect. The final responsibility rests with the head coach always
@jordanissport5 жыл бұрын
@@brucemercer7753 Um, as I said, it is the correct call. It is the coach's responsibility to check the official scorebook. However, if a visiting team turns in a correct scorebook and the home scorekeeper screws it up, you fix it and move on with life. Or, if you have to do it your way, give the technical because it is what the BLACK AND WHITE rule book says. Just let the coach and scorekeeper meet outside the gym for a few minutes. The scorekeeper won't f#ck it up again, at least not with that coach's team. I guess you forgot about schools having a responsibility in their association's by-laws to hire experienced and competent score and time keepers.
@dantru19905 жыл бұрын
@@jordanissport Um, no I am correct...I said the technical was the right call. But although I agree that the technical is the "correct" call, if the visiting team turns in a correct scorebook and the home scorekeeper screws it up when entering it into the official book, life is a lot easier on everyone to fix it and move on. If the home team coach has a problem with that then he should also have a problem with an incompetent scorekeeper being hired by his AD.
@dantru19905 жыл бұрын
looks like the T is for a player not listed in the official book. Pre game is to ensure that all players are listed and starters are identified. The head coach should have checked.
@treanthony73366 жыл бұрын
Many officials will take the book with them to the pre game conference with the coaches and ask them to review. If they do so and say it looks good, no matter who made the error, it will always fall back on the coach, as it should.
@anthonygarber60104 жыл бұрын
This is a courtesy though. Ultimately, it's the coaches duty
@marcusmoser6911 Жыл бұрын
Why on earth would anyone want to be a sports official?
@etool43558 ай бұрын
Not sure who’s at fault for this but this coach’s conduct with the official and table personnel would have earned him a T from me. After shutting him up, THEN we can figure out how to make the book right.
@OrionCorsari Жыл бұрын
The official needs to tell that coach to get back or T him up. They're trying to figure out what's going on.
@fsi12127 жыл бұрын
They figured out what's going on, the official scorekeeper screwed up. Now they are trying to do damage control.
@alexh86136 жыл бұрын
The team is already going to get an administrative tech. If you're going to light the coach up, you better make sure it's super big and obvious. Him bitching about someone fucking the book up isn't a T imo.
@jenniferoneill43155 жыл бұрын
You aren't technically wrong. But I am guessing that the Ref had to call over the Coach to help figure out how to correct the Book. And to review the book to make sure there were no more mistakes. A team can only receive 1 Technical Foul for errors in the book per game. Even if the book has multiple errors only the 1st Error counts for the Tech. So to avoid more delay in the game the Coach will get a chance to fix anything else that might be wrong.
@brucemercer77535 жыл бұрын
@@jenniferoneill4315 True. At least in this case because he didn't really go too far considering he has already been T'd up like you say.
@brucemercer77535 жыл бұрын
That’s bs. Him slapping the table and refusing to back off is easily grounds for another T. We can be approachable and all, but that was disrespectful and sets up other officials who’ll have this coach with him thinking this is okay.
@lossanthon19344 жыл бұрын
You can see the patience of the ref beginning to disappear as the video goes on
@tigerguy10132 жыл бұрын
First of all, put that one coach back in the box, “T” him up, do something…but stop letting him run the show. Then, fix what you need to fix in the book.
@mountainliving1227 Жыл бұрын
The Coach should be T'ed for coming to the scorers table.
@keatonsolomon7773 жыл бұрын
coaches responsibility...done...he should have at least one t for his yelling and ranting
@heathholtz26054 жыл бұрын
I once was T'ed up because the official scorekeeper copied down the wrong jersey number for a player.
@gsandy5235Күн бұрын
Another frustrated hs basketball coach. I dont miss officiating, I gotta believe shit is worse now.
@victormodjeski41734 жыл бұрын
Its all for the enjoyment of the game. Entitlement however is running rampet
@4realjacob6373 жыл бұрын
It is and the schools are hesitant to do anything, and the state associations don't back officials.
@mikecustenborder39912 жыл бұрын
I was once involved in a high-school game where something similar happened. The home coach had entered the players' names & numbers in the book. One player's number was entered incorrectly. Penalty: technical foul on the player.
@donaldthomas70703 жыл бұрын
Its an administrative technichal as far as NFHS rules go
@4realjacob6373 жыл бұрын
It’s not a Technical foul on player if his number wrong, it’s a administration Technical on the Coach, it could be two or three errors in book the coach only get one Technical. It’s two shot and Team B get the ball at the division line for a throw in.
@jerelldaniels96283 жыл бұрын
@@4realjacob637 got a question, if a player isn't entered in the book, is he disqualified for that game? I know that used to be the rule, my high school coach made that error.
@1Outis12 жыл бұрын
@@1Outis1 No, that is one of the factors that falls under the administative technical foul. Any and all roster errors by the offending team are corrected in the score book (including any missing players), the administrative technical foul is assessed/penalized, and play continues on per the corrected score book.
@josephtripoli50692 жыл бұрын
I got a t for that as the coach. It’s your responsibility to check the book.
@martincalder23806 жыл бұрын
It should have only been an admin tech... Doesn't go against the coach
@jordanissport3 жыл бұрын
Didn't both coaches SIGN the book ten minutes before tip off? Works every time
@brucek663 жыл бұрын
Do your job, coach.
@astroman30Ай бұрын
This is why every HC/team should check and initial their starters/rosters in the book to insure their accuracy
@jdfinley29762 жыл бұрын
Unfortunate
@mikecustenborder39914 жыл бұрын
I did this once. Player missed a game so wasn't in the book and I copied the lineup from that game to our next game and left the player off. When that player went into the game I was given a T. I signed off on the book during pregame. I usually count players when I do the signoff (and usually the ref does too) but I didn't that game for some reason and neither did the ref. It was my fault. Luckily it was at the beginning and didn't play a big factor
@seanlucas4674 Жыл бұрын
By rule in high school basketball that’s an Administrative Technical Foul for an error in the official game book that both coaches presented before the game started.
@extremestormspotterdavidS2 жыл бұрын
Yes & No... If the coach signs/initials the official score book prior to the game then, yes, any roster error(s) would involve an administrative technical foul. However, if the coach submits a correct roster/lineup in a timely manner (10 minutes prior to tip-off), is never asked to sign/initial the official book, and then a roster/lineup error is later discovered due to a transfer error by the official scorekeeper, there is no administrative technical foul assessed. The scorebook is merely corrected to match the original roster/lineup submitted and the game continues on. Note: All too often, the referee simply neglects to get the book signed/initialed by the two coaches prior to the start of the game, leading to unfortunate situations like this one. Granted they are rare, but highly avoidable if everyone simply does their job.
@josephtripoli50692 жыл бұрын
@@josephtripoli5069 Yup! I agree.
@extremestormspotterdavidS2 жыл бұрын
I have a feeling he got a tech for arguing and not for any issue. If not he should have gotten 2. When players are trying to get their coach’s to calm down you know there’s a problem
@jackjon77633 жыл бұрын
Wow, riveting
@mandas64513 жыл бұрын
80,000+ views. I'll take it.
@bawireman Жыл бұрын
O’Boyle Rules
@KeithMarkMRA2 жыл бұрын
The rules require that both teams provide notice to the table of their roster's names, numbers, and designated starters. It does NOT require that you write those down in the book for the benefit of the scorer. I print off a word file, have the coach circle his five starters before the game, and give that file to the table. Usually they want me to write it in the book also, but I have satisfied the rulebooks burden with that sheet of paper and if there's any disagreement after the fact, I have a paper trail I did it right.
@Panarchy9 Жыл бұрын
Anyone see a T actually being assessed? Considering the scorekeeper is an actual official, I'm unclear on how his mistake could result in anyone getting a technical.
@dawnzephyr7 жыл бұрын
It's an administrative technical for player not in book
@zforce327 жыл бұрын
The scorekeeper is not an actual official. The home teams scorekeeper has to wear that shirt to show they are the official scorekeeper. Their book is the only one that matters when the actual officials check the books.
@MTBMamba6 жыл бұрын
MTBMamba wrong. The official score keeper is in fact part of the officiating crew.
@marklocke65756 жыл бұрын
@@MTBMamba Well... yes and no. The Scorekeeper and Clock Operator are Game Officials with the same elevated status as a Referee. But they only rules they need to know apply to Running the Clock and Keeping Score. So they are Officials, the Table Officials. But the are not Referees. At least not in that game where they are working the Table. They might be Referees but they are not Refs on this game. The rest you have totally correct.
@brucemercer77535 жыл бұрын
At the end of the video they made an announcement about the technical foul.
@markp72623 жыл бұрын
The $25 this ref is making is not worth the hassle.
@tomevans54584 жыл бұрын
actually its probably anywhere around $75 to $100..at the high school boys level a game..but I get the point
@gosaints20003 жыл бұрын
High school. Not rec.
@jordanissport3 жыл бұрын
I think it's $80 in Kentucky for high school games (might have been a little lower when this happened).
@bawireman Жыл бұрын
The Referee didn’t ask the scorekeepers did he write the visitor team names in officials scorebook. If he did and he miss a player name it’s not Technical on the visiting team Coach, That is a score keeper error. 🏀
@jerelldaniels96283 жыл бұрын
That would be correct, provided that the coach had not been asked to sign/initial the book prior to the start of the game. If signed-off, the assessed technical foul is the correct ruling.
@josephtripoli50692 жыл бұрын
At least 15 minutes before every game, each coach should submit to the official scorekeeper a full team printed roster listing every player by full first and last name, and correct number. Do not allow any players to wear different numbered home and away jerseys. If you have any such mismatched jerseys, throw them out. Any players not available to play in the game should be clearly X'ed out.
@JStarStar002 жыл бұрын
If a coach fails to submit a player, yes, it is a technical by rule. But clearly, the player WAS listed in the lineup that was submitted and the home scorer failed to copy it over properly. This should not result in a technical. The officials should have looked at what the visitors submitted and allowed the player to be added without penalty.
@joelduffy16 жыл бұрын
There is no appeals process for this. Rules state very clearly... Head Coach MUST verify the book is correct. MUST VERIFY. You have to check the book. If that coach is who I think he is... his Son is a former D1 Head Coach at Power 5 schools (now an Assistant at a Power 5 school) and he has been a HS coach since his son played back in the 90's. No excuse not to know better.
@brucemercer77535 жыл бұрын
It's not a technical on the coach, it's an administrative technical. It's a plain, black and white call. If the assistant is that incompetent at his job, then you should find a new assistant.
@jenniferoneill43155 жыл бұрын
@@jenniferoneill4315 You're saying this doesn't go on the Coach at all? I think it does. It is not a DIRECT Technical Foul for the Coach... but it does apply to the Head Coach INDIRECTLY. But you are absolutely right when saying it is a Black and White call. That this when discovered MUST result in a technical Foul against the offending team. For those that do not know. A coach gets ejected for 2 DIRECT Technical Fouls or any combination of 3 INDIRECT and DIRECT Technical Fouls. And it is obvious which are which. If the Coach is running his mouth or acting like a fool... it is a DIRECT Technical. Anything else is INDIRECT. Examples... anything that is a correction in he Book, anything done by Bench Personnel, any Delay of Game issues (which require 1 warning before a Tech is issued).
@brucemercer77535 жыл бұрын
@@brucemercer7753 an administrative technical foul is neither a direct nor an indirect tech on the head coach, and they do not lose their coaches' box. It was actually on our test this year in Kentucky.
@jenniferoneill43155 жыл бұрын
what if visitor book added it in later. when he realized the mistake. you cant change what the official book is and jump back and forth.
@heathholtz26054 жыл бұрын
This can be fixed eaisley coach had him in his book. The score keeper and coach should both went over the scorebook. Before the game no tech should be. Allowed these are kids playing a game. The official at the table screwed up to so not all coaches fauly
@chrisclark92104 жыл бұрын
True but that said they should have double checked the books before the start of the game!
@michaelhogg3244 жыл бұрын
Rules are like this otherwise you could have 6 players not on lineup and unnecessary delay
@4realjacob6373 жыл бұрын
That guy won’t be doing the book ever again I can tell you that much 😂
coach's responsibility for his teams' entry in the book
When I was coaching I always made it a task of one of the assistant coaches to check the book with the scorekeeper and sign off on it prior to tip-off. This video is a cautionary tale to take the rules of the game seriously and be respectful to the officials when a discrepancy is found.
Please correct the title of this video. The scorekeeper did not make the error, the Boyle County head coach did. Before each game, the head referee has a meeting with the coaches and one of the key pieces of instruction is "check the book to make sure all of your players are listed." Once the head referee checks the book and signs off, then any player not listed is the head coach's responsibility. The Boyle County head coach was derelict in his duties.
You are correct, but if the Boyle coach gave his roster correctly to the scorekeeper and the scorekeeper screwed up, the officials should've used a little thing called common sense and ignored it.
@@dantru1990 NO. The Coach is supposed to check the Official Book or he can designate his Book Keeper to do so. It is in Black and White in the Rules Book. The Ref's job is to enforce the Black and White rules. He CANNOT ignore it. The Coach is learning a difficult lesson about not knowing and following the rules. The Ref is using Common Sense by hearing the coach out and by not T'ing him up for trying to influence the call. How many rules does the Ref have to not enforce in the name of "common sense"... should he not enforce rules on Uniforms, Language, Coaches Boxes, Bench Decorum? What is Common Sense... not doing your job... is that Common sense? Check the Book Coach if it has mistakes it is on YOU. CHECK THE BOOK. The rules cannot be more clear. This is VARSITY Basketball not PeeWees in the Church League.
@@dantru1990 incorrect. The final responsibility rests with the head coach always
@@brucemercer7753 Um, as I said, it is the correct call. It is the coach's responsibility to check the official scorebook. However, if a visiting team turns in a correct scorebook and the home scorekeeper screws it up, you fix it and move on with life. Or, if you have to do it your way, give the technical because it is what the BLACK AND WHITE rule book says. Just let the coach and scorekeeper meet outside the gym for a few minutes. The scorekeeper won't f#ck it up again, at least not with that coach's team. I guess you forgot about schools having a responsibility in their association's by-laws to hire experienced and competent score and time keepers.
@@jordanissport Um, no I am correct...I said the technical was the right call. But although I agree that the technical is the "correct" call, if the visiting team turns in a correct scorebook and the home scorekeeper screws it up when entering it into the official book, life is a lot easier on everyone to fix it and move on. If the home team coach has a problem with that then he should also have a problem with an incompetent scorekeeper being hired by his AD.
looks like the T is for a player not listed in the official book. Pre game is to ensure that all players are listed and starters are identified. The head coach should have checked.
Many officials will take the book with them to the pre game conference with the coaches and ask them to review. If they do so and say it looks good, no matter who made the error, it will always fall back on the coach, as it should.
This is a courtesy though. Ultimately, it's the coaches duty
Why on earth would anyone want to be a sports official?
Not sure who’s at fault for this but this coach’s conduct with the official and table personnel would have earned him a T from me. After shutting him up, THEN we can figure out how to make the book right.
The official needs to tell that coach to get back or T him up. They're trying to figure out what's going on.
They figured out what's going on, the official scorekeeper screwed up. Now they are trying to do damage control.
The team is already going to get an administrative tech. If you're going to light the coach up, you better make sure it's super big and obvious. Him bitching about someone fucking the book up isn't a T imo.
You aren't technically wrong. But I am guessing that the Ref had to call over the Coach to help figure out how to correct the Book. And to review the book to make sure there were no more mistakes. A team can only receive 1 Technical Foul for errors in the book per game. Even if the book has multiple errors only the 1st Error counts for the Tech. So to avoid more delay in the game the Coach will get a chance to fix anything else that might be wrong.
@@jenniferoneill4315 True. At least in this case because he didn't really go too far considering he has already been T'd up like you say.
That’s bs. Him slapping the table and refusing to back off is easily grounds for another T. We can be approachable and all, but that was disrespectful and sets up other officials who’ll have this coach with him thinking this is okay.
You can see the patience of the ref beginning to disappear as the video goes on
First of all, put that one coach back in the box, “T” him up, do something…but stop letting him run the show. Then, fix what you need to fix in the book.
The Coach should be T'ed for coming to the scorers table.
coaches responsibility...done...he should have at least one t for his yelling and ranting
I once was T'ed up because the official scorekeeper copied down the wrong jersey number for a player.
Another frustrated hs basketball coach. I dont miss officiating, I gotta believe shit is worse now.
Its all for the enjoyment of the game. Entitlement however is running rampet
It is and the schools are hesitant to do anything, and the state associations don't back officials.
I was once involved in a high-school game where something similar happened. The home coach had entered the players' names & numbers in the book. One player's number was entered incorrectly. Penalty: technical foul on the player.
Its an administrative technichal as far as NFHS rules go
It’s not a Technical foul on player if his number wrong, it’s a administration Technical on the Coach, it could be two or three errors in book the coach only get one Technical. It’s two shot and Team B get the ball at the division line for a throw in.
@@4realjacob637 got a question, if a player isn't entered in the book, is he disqualified for that game? I know that used to be the rule, my high school coach made that error.
@@1Outis1 No, that is one of the factors that falls under the administative technical foul. Any and all roster errors by the offending team are corrected in the score book (including any missing players), the administrative technical foul is assessed/penalized, and play continues on per the corrected score book.
I got a t for that as the coach. It’s your responsibility to check the book.
It should have only been an admin tech... Doesn't go against the coach
Didn't both coaches SIGN the book ten minutes before tip off? Works every time
Do your job, coach.
This is why every HC/team should check and initial their starters/rosters in the book to insure their accuracy
Unfortunate
I did this once. Player missed a game so wasn't in the book and I copied the lineup from that game to our next game and left the player off. When that player went into the game I was given a T. I signed off on the book during pregame. I usually count players when I do the signoff (and usually the ref does too) but I didn't that game for some reason and neither did the ref. It was my fault. Luckily it was at the beginning and didn't play a big factor
By rule in high school basketball that’s an Administrative Technical Foul for an error in the official game book that both coaches presented before the game started.
Yes & No... If the coach signs/initials the official score book prior to the game then, yes, any roster error(s) would involve an administrative technical foul. However, if the coach submits a correct roster/lineup in a timely manner (10 minutes prior to tip-off), is never asked to sign/initial the official book, and then a roster/lineup error is later discovered due to a transfer error by the official scorekeeper, there is no administrative technical foul assessed. The scorebook is merely corrected to match the original roster/lineup submitted and the game continues on. Note: All too often, the referee simply neglects to get the book signed/initialed by the two coaches prior to the start of the game, leading to unfortunate situations like this one. Granted they are rare, but highly avoidable if everyone simply does their job.
@@josephtripoli5069 Yup! I agree.
I have a feeling he got a tech for arguing and not for any issue. If not he should have gotten 2. When players are trying to get their coach’s to calm down you know there’s a problem
Wow, riveting
80,000+ views. I'll take it.
O’Boyle Rules
The rules require that both teams provide notice to the table of their roster's names, numbers, and designated starters. It does NOT require that you write those down in the book for the benefit of the scorer. I print off a word file, have the coach circle his five starters before the game, and give that file to the table. Usually they want me to write it in the book also, but I have satisfied the rulebooks burden with that sheet of paper and if there's any disagreement after the fact, I have a paper trail I did it right.
Anyone see a T actually being assessed? Considering the scorekeeper is an actual official, I'm unclear on how his mistake could result in anyone getting a technical.
It's an administrative technical for player not in book
The scorekeeper is not an actual official. The home teams scorekeeper has to wear that shirt to show they are the official scorekeeper. Their book is the only one that matters when the actual officials check the books.
MTBMamba wrong. The official score keeper is in fact part of the officiating crew.
@@MTBMamba Well... yes and no. The Scorekeeper and Clock Operator are Game Officials with the same elevated status as a Referee. But they only rules they need to know apply to Running the Clock and Keeping Score. So they are Officials, the Table Officials. But the are not Referees. At least not in that game where they are working the Table. They might be Referees but they are not Refs on this game. The rest you have totally correct.
At the end of the video they made an announcement about the technical foul.
The $25 this ref is making is not worth the hassle.
actually its probably anywhere around $75 to $100..at the high school boys level a game..but I get the point
High school. Not rec.
I think it's $80 in Kentucky for high school games (might have been a little lower when this happened).
The Referee didn’t ask the scorekeepers did he write the visitor team names in officials scorebook. If he did and he miss a player name it’s not Technical on the visiting team Coach, That is a score keeper error. 🏀
That would be correct, provided that the coach had not been asked to sign/initial the book prior to the start of the game. If signed-off, the assessed technical foul is the correct ruling.
At least 15 minutes before every game, each coach should submit to the official scorekeeper a full team printed roster listing every player by full first and last name, and correct number. Do not allow any players to wear different numbered home and away jerseys. If you have any such mismatched jerseys, throw them out. Any players not available to play in the game should be clearly X'ed out.
If a coach fails to submit a player, yes, it is a technical by rule. But clearly, the player WAS listed in the lineup that was submitted and the home scorer failed to copy it over properly. This should not result in a technical. The officials should have looked at what the visitors submitted and allowed the player to be added without penalty.
There is no appeals process for this. Rules state very clearly... Head Coach MUST verify the book is correct. MUST VERIFY. You have to check the book. If that coach is who I think he is... his Son is a former D1 Head Coach at Power 5 schools (now an Assistant at a Power 5 school) and he has been a HS coach since his son played back in the 90's. No excuse not to know better.
It's not a technical on the coach, it's an administrative technical. It's a plain, black and white call. If the assistant is that incompetent at his job, then you should find a new assistant.
@@jenniferoneill4315 You're saying this doesn't go on the Coach at all? I think it does. It is not a DIRECT Technical Foul for the Coach... but it does apply to the Head Coach INDIRECTLY. But you are absolutely right when saying it is a Black and White call. That this when discovered MUST result in a technical Foul against the offending team. For those that do not know. A coach gets ejected for 2 DIRECT Technical Fouls or any combination of 3 INDIRECT and DIRECT Technical Fouls. And it is obvious which are which. If the Coach is running his mouth or acting like a fool... it is a DIRECT Technical. Anything else is INDIRECT. Examples... anything that is a correction in he Book, anything done by Bench Personnel, any Delay of Game issues (which require 1 warning before a Tech is issued).
@@brucemercer7753 an administrative technical foul is neither a direct nor an indirect tech on the head coach, and they do not lose their coaches' box. It was actually on our test this year in Kentucky.
what if visitor book added it in later. when he realized the mistake. you cant change what the official book is and jump back and forth.
This can be fixed eaisley coach had him in his book. The score keeper and coach should both went over the scorebook. Before the game no tech should be. Allowed these are kids playing a game. The official at the table screwed up to so not all coaches fauly
True but that said they should have double checked the books before the start of the game!
Rules are like this otherwise you could have 6 players not on lineup and unnecessary delay
That guy won’t be doing the book ever again I can tell you that much 😂