Ball end punch
Some times you need to make a tool to make another tool. In this case I want to make a 3/8 rivet header but need a ball punch the size of the rivet head. So today we make the ball.
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Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
We moved into a house that has scrap sucker rod in abundance…..the property fence is made with it! While I’m disappointed to learn it’s not good for knife making, I am very happy I can make a bunch of forging tools! Thank so much for this….of to the shop I go!
LOL. I was looking at your Quench bucket thinking 'he has one bucket inside the one with the lid. great idea'. Two seconds later you explained it like you were responding to my thought.
You never fail to be a great help Mr bear! I've been slowly growing and growing and now I'm in need of more tools! Who would have guessed huh? Ha! I've been doing alot of mjölnir pendants and have gotten really good. But now I want to start adding more detail to em that just a flat planished look. That and I want to get better at animal/demon heads and skulls. Need some better ball and eye hole punches. What I'm using now for ball punches are some old center punches that I had and ground to shape. But they be getting a bit beat up. As always, thanks you John!
John, thanks for all of your great videos. You explain things so clearly, and take time to demonstrate a lot of little details that others often omit. I've learned a lot from watching your content. I'm glad I didn't try to get started blacksmithing based on that one very popular knife forging show. You're awesome!
Excellent tutorial on working with sucker rod.
Even though it's a super simple tool, it was a terrific refresher on heat treating "old school" without an oven. Fundamentals matter and should be refreshed periodically.
This technique applies to any variety of punches needed in the shop. Well explained! Thanks for a short and tasty video.
1k likes 0 dislikes... Just the way it should be on this channel. 😊 Keep up the good work.
Very good & quick course in heat treatments. Thx.
Thanks for the timing .
Good video John! You did a great job explaining the heat treating process in this one.
Thanks John I have never used sucker rod before Its not available in my part of the country But a viewer sent me a bunch of it. Thanks for the info and the demo. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next one.
Always love the make a tool videos! Looking forward to the rivet tool videos!!
I really enjoyed this, and the heat treating is a good reminder on how heat treating was done, I do it this way all the time and it serves me well.
I will get my rivet punch tool today if I am not rain out for my little " shed shop" Also has my compass cut out ready to forage and shaped and ready for nice job on rivits. Again Thanks you Sir.You are great at what you are doing.
I must give credit to the well done narrative and visual lesson of making a simple tool in this video. You're improving as you go. Good job. Appreciate the video. Thanks.
A great simple tool for a beginner like me to make Thanks for the video Black Bear!
Sir, your videos are excellent! I appreciate you making them :)
Always enjoy your vids.... That "insect" you mention is commonly called a "Grasshopper" in Texas where in the panhandle where I grew up were quite common.
Great video John! Love the tip on using the safety rag bin. Think I'll go that route. I keep a piece of 16ga scrap sheet next to mine for that purpose and have often worried about knocking the oil can over if you happen to panic a little. I hear you on the lighting, just changed my fluorescent lights to Led's and cracked 3of 5 chisels I made being used to the colors I used to see...thanks for your time John...really looking forward to making my calipers!
Ha ha! That was me, I've asked him what sucker rod was. Thank you John for this video!
Only one of many
I am very glad to see you forging again on camera thanks for all the help
What a great video on hardening and tempering!!! You are such a great teacher. Thanks John.
Great now to see a set grow. Tools like this are well worth the time to make them. Thanks John.
Things get really interesting when you pair this with air tooling :-) and loud LOL great video John God bless you and thank you for the post...
I need to explore air tooling more, I have a friend that uses a variety of large industrial air guns with great effect.
@@BlackBearForge its a lot of fun and you can really power through material but bad for camera work or hearing your own thoughts lol...keep having fun John and thanks for the reply!
Good idea Roy. I'm going to play around with that. I'll bet it would make quick work of that pea pod scroll.
Good point on the color differences. Even the outside sunlight can change your video colors for us to see :)
Nice informative video! Made me laugh at around 8 minutes: which existed first, the ball punch or the header...
Great video on ball punches and old school tempering thank you John!
Loved your treatise on judging heat color, and now video is completely unreliable for this. Always informative!
cherry red is 1800 and white hot is 5000
I need to make a few of them in different sizes. Perfect timing again .....thx again......Paul
Really great content, thank you!
It's all been said, thanks John.
Some great tips there on heat treating. they will be used in future projects that's for sure,. Great video John.
great video john, I need to make me somemore punces, ball bunch I need to do, thank you
Good job Thanks God Bess
I'm working through a lot of BBF videos that I have already watched. Here is a comment from the algorithm. Do you think that the algorithm has logic to determine if the commenter mentions the algorithm which would make the algorithm downgrade that comment? No one can know unless the algorithm becomes open source.
You made it! Was looking forward to this video, John! First comment (can't claim first view, you did that! ). 🐾🔥⚒
Another great demo video......well done!
Thanks 👍👍👍👍
Another really excellent video, John. You just can't hear this stuff too much when you are still a relative beginner and every time I hear it something else jumps out. I'm sure glad that you used the new double caliper, every time I see a dial caliper I cringe. Would a lesson on how your gas forge is plumbed and how you adjust it, turn off&on, pressures used, your elevation and any of the other bits of wisdom that you have gathered be possible? I have a Chili just like yours and have troubles getting it up to welding temperature and when I try to turn it down to an idle it wants to suck the flame back etc.
Since I’m still saving for my electric oven. I usually use 1095,1084,1075 steel and use a magnet to get to temperature. When it is no longer magnetic I place it back in to bring it up slightly more then quench.
That works pretty well for those simple steels but becomes less reliable for higher alloy steels.
Another great video, I look forward to building confidence in heat treating, this was a big help. Thank You Wayne!!
Aho the Hell is Wayne?
Excellent as always. I wonder if anyone could tell me: Is there a book that references different steels and how they react to the various hardening/tempering techniques? Perhaps an engineering reference book if there are none directly aimed at blacksmiths?
Perfect like 914/0.
Found this video cause I need a rivet set Im guessing and hoping coil spring, which I have, will do the job? I expect it will, use very often for hot punches and although I sometimes break them overall coil spring does that job!
Yes it will
Lmbo! That belt looks like me trying to walk 😆😆😆 Now the important part. Nice video sirSir lots of good information on steels and quench/ hardening. Very enjoyable watch. Thank you Mr. John Blessed days sirSir, Crawford out
I just thought of something, why do crossguards have ball ends?
I can probably get suckered rod by the ton lol there are several oil companies and well companies within a 60 mile radius.
Looks a little warmer in your shop than it has been. I need heat in mine, just working till my feet get too cold to feel then I call it quits.
For a few days anyway. February is generally when things start to seem a bit less cold.
Weatherman is calling for a blizzard here in a couple of days...but on the bright side of things it is going to warm up a bit!
love your video do you till use the Sony FDRAX33 and ECMW1M
The Sony has been in for repairs for a few months, but should be back soon. I have started using a Rode wireless lav for the sound.
Could you do an episode talking about different types of quenches? Oil versus water... different types of oil.. different temperatures of water
A quick overview of quenchants. Water: good for mild steels 1018, AS36, up through 1045-1050 plain Jane straight carbon steel, Atlantic 33, and W1. Salt Water: slightly faster quench, will push the hardest of medium carbon steels, like 1045-1050, and W1, W2, W3. It is a harsher quench, and can produce more distortion, especially in thin cross section, or intricate shapes. Oil: 1060-1095 plain carbon steels, 4130, 4140, 5160, 52100, and O1. Some steels like Air hardening tool steels like S7 can be pushed to a higher hardness by using an interupted oil quench. Don't try this on thin cross sections... Quench just the working end of the tool in oil to take most of the color out of the steel, but leave it glowing just a bit around 1000 degrees. Then bury the struck end of the tool in ashes, lime, vermiculite, or wrap on kaolwool. Then put a fan near the piece to circulate air. Air: A2, A6, A8, D2(not home shop friendly), S1, S3, S7, H13. If you buy know steel, you can often get spec sheets for that steel which will give you all the best treatment data you need. Brine/salt water isn't used very much anymore.
What kind of oil do you use for quenching?
I like the safety can around the oil can, great safety tip. What do you use for oil John?
I bought a commercially available quenching oil. Can't recall the brand
@@BlackBearForge Thank You, I'll find some..
Is there a link for the color guide for tempering?
Hi John, for oil hardening steels, what are your thoughts about using water instead of oil for the second quench? Some do this because it will "freeze" the steel quicker, others never do it because it causes stress... Me, I have no idea.
While it should be OK, it is probably better to quench in the same medium. Unless its one of the steels that require a cryogenic quench after tempering
Re-re-rewatching as I just obtained a bunch of spring steel. A not-so short question regarding forming the ball. IF you took the rivet, drove the head into a yellow hot piece of flat steel, let it cool, then heated the pre-shaped sucker rod and drove it into the depression, how would that work in forming the ball to fit the rivet?
It should work fine
I had the same thought, to make the river header, set the rivet in the vise, and drive the hot header onto it.
Where did you get that fine vermiculite powder? I only found lots of sources offering coarse granular vermiculite.
It starts off as the coarser stuff and just gets worn down over the years.
What are suspension coil springs typically made of? I have a lot of it and am always trying to add to my punch collection.
most coil springs are 5160
@@shadetreeforge thanks, Frank!
Would used hydraulic fluid be a good medium for a heat treat medium? I have about 20 gallons from oil changes of my farm tractor.
It is discouraged for a number of reasons. Heat treat oils for industry are designed for a specific cooling rate, who know what rate transmission fluid cools at. Used oils have contaminants that can cause trouble with steel by adding unknown properties. The more additives and unknowns in the oil the word=se it is for your health (although any oil smoke is bad to breath)
Hydraulic fluid is really nasty stuff. I wouldn't want to breath the smoke from that. If you decide to try it do yourself a favor and wear a respirator.
Also what kind of oil are you quenching in?
I use a commercial oil meant for heat treating
John, What type of oil do you recommend for heat treating/quenching?
i think if you look through John's videos he does tell about oil for hardening. do remember the don't use used motor oil.
For basic blacksmith punches and chisels plain old inexpensive vegetable oil works fine. I've made nearly 100 punches from sucker rod, 4130 and 4140. All old school hardened and tempered. Haven't had any issues with them. I make most hot cut tooling now from H13 as it is much more durable for hot work. And have recently remade all my most used drifts from S7. It stands up better to impact than most other steels. Great video on this topic as well.
Can you use pearlite instead of vermiculite for annealing?
Sure
As a colorblind person, I find it nearly impossible to determine the color of my steel. I can tell the difference between red and yellow but that's about it. Any tips for such a situation? I use charcoal in my forge because coal is just not available here as far as I can find. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I have an especially hard time forge welding since I can't tell what the color of the metal is. So far I've gotten lucky a few times but mostly I either pull it out too early or too late. I've burned up quite a bit of metal trying to forge weld. I just can't seem to home in on the sweet spot.
I wonder if you can see a difference in the intensity of the light given off. It might be worth trying a gas forge for forging and welding so that once you learn what happens at different pressure setting you can just set the pressure for the desired heat range. For heat treating an electric oven might be best.
I'm looking into getting my own forge, do you have any insight with Majestic forge?
Slickheadhunter I had one. I couldn’t get it hot enough to forge weld. I just replaced it with a NC forge I love it.
Johnathon Dyson how many burners did you have? I'm looking at the three burner model. I'll have a look at the NC's as well
I had the two burner majestic. And the NC is also two burner with open ends. 15-20 minutes it’s at forge weld temp.
Johnathon Dyson thanks!
I was wondering if you know how an A2 steel would compare with S7 for making tools?
A2 is a good wear resistant durable steel for cold work. It is demensionally stable through heat treatment, so you can grind precise shapes, and they will be stable through heat treatment. Good uses center punch, cold working chasing and repose' tools, punch and stamping dies for cold work on a fly press. S7 is Shock resistant steel, it is normally air hardening, but greater hardness can be achieved with an interupted oil quench in some cases. S7 has decent hot working properties, and is suitable for running chisels, drifts, punches, and set tools. H13 is an air hardening Hot work steel. It is nice for slitting chisels, drifts, hacks, hot cuts, and punches. With all of these air hardening steels you need to be very careful with attempting to differentially harden them, or temper back the struck end of the tool. If you allow the whole tool to harden it will likely be harder than your forging hammer, and put a bunch of lovely dents in your hammer face. Not to mention the risk of the struck end spalling. H13 you can raise the struck end to almost showing color 900-1000 and then cool slowly in ashes, lime, vermiculite, or wrapped in kaolwool with a fan on the working end. To differentially harden, raise the working end to critical temperature, and bury the struck end in ashes, etc. You can also make a bolster out of a heavy chunk is steel get that hot with the piece and stick the struck end in the hot bolster to cool. With a fan circulating the air around the working end of the tool. S7 and A2 can probably be treated much the same way though the tempering temperature should be a little lower, check the specs... Hope that helps 😊
SJS Blacksmith that is awesome thank you!!!
You made a rivet header in a previous video by just using a rivet. So why not again?
Because I like to show alternatives, plus this gives me a ball tool in a size I didn't have
Sir, can you tell me the hardness difference between 4140 and S7?
4140 is around 56 and S7 61