Is LeBron James the GOAT? Is Michael Jordan The GOAT? Is Steph Curry, Kobe Bryant, or Bill Russell the Greatest of All Time? In this NBA video we are actually doing the opposite by Putting an Asterisk on Potential NBA GOATs and debating how each of the NBA Greats are NOT the GOAT! NBA Animation by Rebound Rewind.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:26 LeBron James
4:11 Steph Curry
5:03 Bill Russell
6:54 Larry Bird
7:44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
8:55 Magic Johnson
10:37 Kobe Bryant
12:00 Wilt Chamberlain
13:04 Michael Jordan
15:44 Outro
#nba #stephencurry #lebronjames
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Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:26 LeBron James 4:11 Steph Curry 5:03 Bill Russell 6:54 Larry Bird 7:44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 8:55 Magic Johnson 10:37 Kobe Bryant 12:00 Wilt Chamberlain 13:04 Michael Jordan 15:44 Outro
Hakeem vs Duncan the best GOAT debate fr fr💯
No Shaq? Unless I'm going blind
Milk men and plumbers? They didn't pay players back then genius. They had to get jobs to supplement their incomes. These milkmen and plumbers were the best players in the world then.
Kareem played against Wilt Willis Reed Nate Thurmond Dave Cowens Bob Lanier Wes Unsel Bill Walton At his position in the 70s. Each one of these players were on the top 50 at 50 at the center position. Competition breeds excellence.
ilove micky mouse🤣🎉👏😭
Notice how he didn't go after Brian Scalabrine. The reason is because his greatness is so amazing it simply cannot be challenged.
What 😂
@@wills5819 scalabrine is a fucking legend bruh
@@11platupus you trippin🤣🤣🤣
@@wills5819 you tripping bro
Who we talking about 😕
So does that mean Hakeem and Duncan are the GOATs if they weren't mentioned? Edit: This sarcastic comment is confusingly popular.
Exactly (sarcasm) 😂😂
Yeah probably cause there isn't pretty much anything against them, expecialy Tim
Melo and wade are probably close
@@andreacultreri6727 Hakeem’s 8 first round exits, Duncan’s underwhelming playoff performances especially 04 against lakers, plus the fact he wasn’t able to repeat as champions ever. But overall those are the only legitimate flaws that I know of both had phenomenal success and retired as greats
Hakeem GOAT carried the rockets back to back won an MVP DPOY FINALS MVP and is the only player to have 300 blocks and 200 steals in a season easily the best defender OAT and led him team to the finals as a sophomore he could’ve won more if he had more competition give Hakeem reggie miller he’s killing the bulls
The point is, if you're looking for an asterisk, you can probably find one, whether it's fair or not. Same could be said of most individual championship seasons.
True but thats the whole point of the video
Word. Some of the points were reaching like crazy. Comparing apples to oranges, crossing eras and contradicting his own arguments. Real talk, I'm glad Julius Irving was not in this video. Not saying he is the goat, I just didn't wanna hear no over analytical explanation.
The real point is most ppl make their decisions based upon raw data. Fewer but smarter ppl add context to their choice. But the fewest and smartest, like this vid, understand the role of nuance in any decision or choice. Best ever vid to demonstrate that reality!
In my opinion if Wilt's attitude was different on the court(He played softly because he didn't want appear a mean guy because he wanted to make basketball a different sport which doesn't depend on stature but versatility. He hit hooks, finger rolls, etc., but rarely drove and dunked. With his athletism he and height he could just run and dunk over anyone and score 80 points or more every game and maybe even out score teams alone
This video contradicts the fact that Russell isn’t the Goat bc his HOF support cast that won 11 titles. But Wilt’s flaw was the fact that he didnt win titles against that same 11 title dynasty, the Celtics. So its either one or the other…. But We can give this guy a pass, since He obviously never saw half these players play in real life…. If we are talking individual accolades here, find another player that Holds over 50 NBA scoring records. Wilt still does and its been 50 years since he played. I’m going to have to give credit where its due here, since nobody seems to have a clue of what a GOAT really is. And thats Wilt Chamberlain. And its not even close! Find a player that scored 100ps in a game. Or even 90, or 80. Wilt led the league in PPG, Rebounds, FG%, Blocks, Steals, and MPG. Later in his career in LA, he was asked to pass more, so he went and led the league in Assists too. Wilt averaged OVER 48 MPG one season. Let that sink in. The NBA had to change 3 rules to make it more fair bc he was too dominant. By the way, Wilt is also the only one to ever record a quintuple-double in history! His sheer strength was unmatched. Players were so intimidated by him, they had to triple team and foul him every time he went to the basket. And he did this, with never sitting on the bench and NEVER fouled out of a single regulation game in his career. Wilt never fouled Any of those players bench press over 400lbs? Wilt put up over 600lbs and was so strong, that even Arnold admitted he was too intimidated to work out with Wilt. Lets not leave out the fact that he played for the Globetrotters at the same time, traveling by bus, 2 games per day. And he was also the fastest and jumped higher than anyone on that list. Wilt Held track and field records at the time in college. Its shameful for anyone to overlook Wilt the stilt. The stat sheets are just too comical for anyone to actually believe it was possible to do the things he did.
@@champspec well as the video pointed out,Wilt mostly played actual grocery store baggers and the league had a way faster scoring pace back then.So if you factor in way worse inferior skilled players along with a break neck scoring pace then wilts big numbers aren’t nearly as impressive.
@@thatoneguy5001 Please learn about the players from the 1960s before dismissing them. Yes, Wilt played at a break neck pace. And he still stayed on the court for almost the entire game. He has the career record for minutes per game at 45.80, so he sat for less than 3 minutes per game for his entire career. The top 7 seasons for min/gm are his.
@@champspec Don't forget that he slept with 20 thousand women. He also held the sky for Atlas and slew the Nemean lion
@@champspec Wilt's flaw is that he folded in the playoffs
Makes sense of you to not include the 🐐 Alex Caruso as he has already set in stone his elite status
I see ur a true fan of the TRUE G.O.A.T
Yes MORE CARUSO FANS
For my school's basketball team I shaved my head bald and got a headband,
You are still saying this old ass sht
Whos better Brian scalaGOAT or caruGOAT
The ray allen ring is kind of unfair. I’m not a Lebron fan (s/o to my grizzlies) but he scored 16 pts had 3 assists and 2 blocks in JUST the 4th quarter to bring his team back into contention. Not to mention he clutched a 3 pointer right before ray Allen’s legendary 3 pointer.
All of them are unfair thats the point
@@Jeyclippeditnah the Kareem point is pretty fair, only realistically 3 of his 6 rings were won because of him. He was just a great center on an insanely stacked roster.
That's my knock on LeBron. He missed the 3 before the rebound went to Allen.
@@unchboy but Lebron is the reason why Ray Allen was able to clutch it up, they were down heavy and were gonna lose until lebron caught fire in the 4th
Ray wasn't even as major of a factor as the refs were in the Heat winning that Finals... The series should've never even made it to 7 games... Ginobli was fouled in the closing seconds of game 6.. Spurs would've won the series right then and there.
In defense of Lebron, for every asterisked title he won with a stacked team against weaker competition, there was a year where he dragged what would've been a lottery team without him to the Finals, only to face an unbeatable Warriors team with Durant or the Spurs in 07.
Yeah the cavs would’ve been an awful team for most of its lifespan if it wasn’t for lebron. Same thing with the heat
lol still defending the queen 🤣
lebum wouldn't reach the final if he's not in the "LEASTERN CONFERENCE" and this 10 finals appearance is not your escape goat in the first place.. a lot of times his team srs is not better than the ones warrior or spur face in their conference...
im waiting for this lebum meat riders to answer 😂😂😂
@Jxmyhighroller already point that out same as credible as johnny Arnett and he is a cerfitied lebron Stan 😂😂😂
I love the Bill Russell disclaimer. Lol. Even as a purely hypothetical exercise, you have to give the guy his due respect.
As someone who has retired from GOAT conversations, I absolutely loved this video
@thezuluninja i asked my grandpa around 2000/01 who was the best basketball player ever and he regaled me with stories of Wilt the Stilt. he watched basketball since the late 50s and if he said Wilt was the GOAT, that's good enough for me. i too have retired from GOAT talk and think a much more fun convo is what would be your all-time starting team, not simply the best at each position cuz those players might not go well together
me too
I am clearly the GOAT, I just did'nt make it to the NBA so that all of you could witness it.
@@joebauers3746yeah only if I didn’t exist
Doesn't matter if you still talk about who the GOAT is or not. Why are you making that a qualifier?
That first Jordan argument is completely illogical when you think that Mike had nobody before and after Pippen while Pippen had Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler throughout his non bulls days so of course he is gonna win more.
Hold up so MJ beating Magicn in 1991 was way past Magic's prime, Magic was 2nd MVP that season yeah?
and magic was what 32 or 33 that year?
@@finallife87 31
Hiv
@@Ampampas he was diagnosed in November 1991. The finals were in June. Magic was 2nd in MVP in 1991. Magic averaged MORE assists and rebounds in 1991 compared to 1990 when he won MVP. In 1991 playoffs Magics ppg in the playoffs were the 2nd highest of his entire career. Add to that HIV first appears as flu like symptoms a few weeks then after that 90% of people who have caught the virus don’t see any symptoms such as fatigue and muscle loss for up to several YEARS - look it up Your point is very flawed my man
And he won back to back Mvps previously , stolen from mj who was more deserving .
Idk maybe I'm crazy but I don't think 8.4 APG and 11.2 APG are "just about the same amount of assists" there's a solid difference between those numbers. I loved the video otherwise, I just thought that one point was a bit off lol.
The whole video is "off" because it is all nitpicked stuff.
@@cjtrules1that’s the point
Great video concept. Pointing out these criticisms people use to knock some greats down in order to prop their favorites up.
Man singlehandedly defeats haters from each fan bases using their method 👏🏾👏🏾 Notice that he shown tim & hakeem but didn't mention them thooo👀
@@accountant3847 cause they aren’t in the goat conversation. MAYBE Tim Duncan but it’s a stretch. And Hakeem only got popular bc of tik tok kids reading stats. In 3 years he went from the most underrated of all time to the most overrated.
I'm so glad he straightened this out with lebron and his fans,, lebron will never be the goat, he got saved by kyrie and Ray,,, he's a lefraud
@@cadestine9511 I mean, he shown both hakeem & tim in the video among other 🐐 candidates, but he didn't talk bout the 2
@@cadestine9511 tim should be in the top 10 discussion but with records being broken on the daily and the way the game is going now a days who knowsv
Magic was still in his prime during the 1991 season. He had won MVP the season before and was one of the frontrunners that season, he retired because of the HIV but could’ve played several more seasons.
yeah but he had rookies and injuries in 91 ...magic even says they werent supposed to make the playoff untill he willed his team there
@@TheTonytone77 worthy played all the games in the finals and averaged 18ppg.... how much more help did magic need. Jordan/pippen v magic/worthy.
@@krump743 worthy was playing injured...
@@TheTonytone77 u Cross the line ur not injured mate..... injuries are pathetic excuses to use. Right to cross the line to play but once ya lose its "oh I was injured" fk outta here
@@TheTonytone77 I'd also like u to explain how the lakers won game 1 if they were so old and injured yet couldn't win another single game the rest of the series....
This is a reminder that all players have weaknesses. But I still believe Jordan is the goat. He accomplished way more in fewer seasons than anyone else.
Magic? 5 rings 9 seasons
Jordan isn't the goat
@@SICKOCL he is , your n the minority my boy .
He really went on Lebrons head with that 3:45 long minute overview
There’s just so much to cover 😂
Fr like what did he lebron do to deserve sm disrespect 🤷🏽♂️
@@williamdean5543all time leading scorer, all time playoff scorer be the best player in the league for 17 years straight. about everything to get him on the same plane as jordan and they can’t accept that so they’ll discredit everything he does to raise up jordan
@@williamdean5543 everything he said that’s what he did to deserve that much disrespect you can’t do all of what he said and crown yourself as the goat
@@goten3965 I hate the 3 peat argument. It doesn't factor in competition. If he 3 peated against teams like 87 lakers or 86 Celtics then that's God tier. He's not 3 peat against teams like Spurs or gsw
The transitions between players are so entertaining
Man called Wilt Chamberlain, Dolph Schayes, Paul Arizin, Bob Petit, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor milkmen and plumbers. SMH.
trash list they had to get 2nd jobs because nba wasn't making much money yet. the disrespect in this video.
You can’t compare one season of Kevin Love to Larry Birds entire career…
That was really misleading. Love averages 17 pts, 10reb, 2ast, for his career.
And the "prime" Kevin Love stats were big meaningless stats for a losing team. Versus the star player on championship contenders who actually moved the ball around.
yall really get triggered by this video? 💀💀
@@eeempy99 how are they triggered kid
@@eeempy99 found the 12 year old
Bill Russell made his teammates Allstars. Leagues weren't diluted with more teams. That's why we have so many bottom feeders.
Larry Bird averaged that low because he, like Magic and later Michael, 'created' for other players and literally made them better players. When they were elsewhere, they dropped off precipitously, and if you call for hard stats, they can be provided. Also, those lifetime stats include when Bird was basically playing with a half broken back, for all intents.
bird was the epitome of a team player and everyone around him benefitted for it.
@@megsley Bird is the most overrated player who is an all-time great he should rank somewhere in the 8-10 range
@@jabrilwebb5624 i’d put him anywhere from 3-7, never lower and if anything underrated because people who try and cap are almost always clueless and never saw him play or understand why people say he’s top 10 for life. when you dig into it it really is shocking how good Larry Bird was at ball
@@jubjubhenry5612Putting Larry bird at 3 is insane with only 3 rings and barely 20k points. There's all time great with more rings, better stats, and were just in general better players. Here's my ranking 1 Jordan 2 Lebron 3 Kobe 4 Kareem 5 Magic 6 Duncan 7 Shaq 8 Bird 9 Curry 10 Hakeem
@@jabrilwebb5624 well it’s not a longevity competition or a rings competition so i don’t think the rules are that claustrophobic to be honest. for me it’s more of a peak/dominance type of issue. because then you have ridiculous crap like me asking you where karl malone is on your list. cases are specific and take some love to really try and make sense of eras and whatnot. not to mention you say insane then place him literally FIVE whole places lower so maybe not that insane eh 🤣🤣 i’d lay out my case for Larry at #3 but you and I would never agree on much looking at that list. bron at #2 is hilarious, magic over larry is weird and can’t be supported beyond “5 rings”, etc
Scottie's regular season and playoff records without Michael are significantly boosted by his time in Houston with Dream and Barkley and Portland. Michael had to carry some guys around before Pippen arrived. Great video!
Add the fact that the no-MJ Bulls that Pippen led was much much better than the pre-Pippen Bulls
Pippen also had the benefit of playing with the exceptional role players Phil Jackson built around Jordan. He didn't have to play from the ground up as Mike did.
Excellent points in this thread
people gave that one pippen season way too much credit:1)like this team only won one playoff matchup, something achievable by even mediocre teams here and there every year, 2) one season sample size doesnt show nearly enough consistency, 3) this pippen was great because he got to play with mj day in and day out for years, if guarding the best offensive player in history everyday in practice dont make you a great defender and likely also a good offensive player, i dont know what will
MJ didnt win shit without his supporting cast. He had to be given the best team in NBA to succeed. every other player from this list would succeed the same in MJs position.
Love the animations, quite funny😂
I’m so glad this was made…because when I try to have these discussions, people lose their minds
The multiple retirements for Jordan does make you wonder if he would have retired at a younger age had he played all the way through. Still , except for the last stint with the Wizards, he was at an mvp level every full year he played. Maybe he doesn’t have the stats overall but he didn’t play 20 years like Kareem and Lebron. He still has the highest scoring average per game in NBA history.
"Retirements" Dont you mean Suspensions. ( Im making a joke )
but, once again, only while playing with the best team in the NBA at the time while there was almost no competition.
If Jordan played more season, pretty sure his averages would go down. He could not be great that long
@@eeempy99 You realize that MJ Played in the 80's and 90's with Shaq, Clyde Drexler, Dantley, Hakeem, McHale, and Wilkins, and Vince Carter (in the late 90s)
@@drakecastleberryofficialthose are good names but notice how MJ never beat any of those names in their primes and the ones he did weren’t that great to begin with, like Clyde, Wilkins and and Carter who wasn’t even in his prime when they played against each other, Shaq was too young to legitimately challenge a much deeper and solid Bulls team, Jordan dodged Hakeem in his healthy and well equipped seasons, it’s no secret that Hakeem got the better of the bulls head to head
This video just reminded me how amazing the 80's finals were when a prime Magic faced against a prime Bird.
It was top heavy just like the 90s. The 00s and 10s were way more competitive overall
@@geordiejones5618 for sure. Now it’s even more competitive. But in retrospect the 80’s Lakers and Celtics finals rivalry was epic.
@@geordiejones5618 bron made the finals almost every year for the 10s and you’re saying it was more competitive than the 80s? Lmao
@@geordiejones5618 The 90's was more top heavy - the 80's was top heavy but once you got to a finals level you had real quality the likes of which didn't exist in the 90's or 2000's or 2010's. Celtics, Lakers, Philly, Bad Boy Pistons, Houston, Atlanta and Cavs. Celtics, Lakers, Pistons are 3 teams the like of which the 00's and 10's didn't have. They had the Lakers, Spurs and in the 10's Warriors - but not 3 teams at once on that level. Possibly you could also throw Philly in there for the fist half of the 80's too. I really believe the greatest overall concentration of extreme player talent at the top of the league could be found in the mid 80's.
West 80s was trash
Bro your transitions from subject to subject are top shelf
😂😂😂 Scal's bobblehead standing next to all those legends was awesome!
The argument that Michael Jordan only had good stats against Bad teams falls apart immediately when you realize he has a way higher scoring average in the playoffs and even in the finals then he does in the regular season
Exactly. That jordan alone and pippen alone comparison is stupid like were they playing by themselves ot had other team mates? Look at MJ team mates in 84-88 they were high on cocaine
@@redtiger4352 how is a guy that leads the league in rebounds or average 23 a game on coke?
@@redtiger4352 that cokehead teammate argument is false
Jordan's stats went down in elimination games
@@sportstalkonly1442 yet they're still way above everybody else's 💀
For the Jordan one when you talked about how good scottie was, he was with Drexler and Hakeem at the end of his career so no wonder he had such a good record without Jordan
Drexler retired after the 1998 season so Pippen never played with him bud, try again. Barkley was on that Houston team as was Hakeem, but that was for one 50-game season. Most of Pippen’s career post-Chicago was with Portland.
@@ThingSomeRandom that Portland team were perennial contenders and lost to the lakers in game 7.
Pippen says Mike warned him about Barkley. kzhead.info/sun/mtZ9p6-JaWadnas/bejne.html
Exactly. In addition, when he was in the Bulls 94 and 95 without Jordan, he had practically the entire rest of the winning team at his disposal. In contrast, Jordan started in the completely below-average Bulls, practically without a proper teammate, and the coach at the time also cannot be compared to Phil.
Pippen never did squat this video is ridiculous the ONLY knock on Jordan was he was a shite teammate. He didn’t even mention that.
For Magic, it isn't about how many passes he has but the quality of those passes
You don't get two assists just because you looked the other way while you passed.
Bird could argue the point there - but he wasn't a point guard so didn't get as many chances.
For anyone who wants to count rings, Robert Horry got more rings than most of these guys. And Pippen was really good but the dude was a bricklayer most of the time. But Jordan and Pippen needed each other.
Horry was never the core of a team, though. He just had good timing on being traded to teams that wanted his role player skills.
As a jazz fan I do think John Stockton is the goat passer
For those who say Wilt played against 5"11 white guys, here are the starting and backup centers than guarded him during these games: * Knicks (100 points): - Darrall Imhoff 6"11 - Phil Jordan 6"11 * Lakers (78 points): - Ray Felix 7"0 - Jim Krebs 6"9 * Wizards (73 points): - Walt Bellamy 6"11 - Charlie Tyra 6"9 * Sixers (70 points): - Johnny Kerr 6"10 - Swede Halbrook 7"3 * Bulls (68 points): - Reggie Harding 7"1 - Craig Spitzer 7"0 * Hawks (67 points): - Clyde Lovellette 6"10 - Larry Foust 6"10 * Suns (66 points): - Jim Fox 6"10 - George Wilson 6"9 * Kings (65 points): - Wayne Embry 6"8 - Hub Reed 6"10 * Celtics (62 points): - Bill Russell 6"10 - John Richter 6"10 * Warriors (62 points): - Nate Thurmond 6"11 - Connie Dierking 6"10 * Pistons (59 points): - Reggie Harding 7"1 - Darrall Imhoff 6"11 * Thunder (53 points): - Bob Rule 6"10 - Henry Akin 6"11 * Rockets (36 points): - Elvin Hayes 6"10 - George Johnson 6"11 * Blazers (33 points): - Leroy Ellis 6"11 - Dale Schlueter 6"10 * Clippers (31 points): - Elmore Smith 7"0 - Nate Bowman 6"10 * Bucks (29 points): - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7"2 - Dick Cunningham 6"10 * Cavaliers (24 points): - Walt Wesley 7"0 - Luther Rackley 6"11
Cap
Wilt faced an all star or hall of fame opponent every night, because the talent pool was not as diluted with 8 teams, or whatever it was. Russell was the number 1 or 2 high hurdle guy on the planet in his day. Chamberlain was probably the greatest athlete who ever lived. Who could have beaten him in a decathalon? He would win most of the events
@@ShaneAlan1 Cap, he’s a better shooter then curry
Bro if wilt played in todays era with today’s technology he would be like Gianni’s and he would be able to shoot free throws because of the trainers
@@ShaneAlan1 so what? If he got 100 points without any shooting skills its all the more impressive
“The chosen one became the frozen one.” I understood that reference
The way you made your argument genuinely had me thinking I was having a conversation with some basketball fans in Facebook groups 😂😂🤦🏽♂️
Wait, so if we're assuming Russell played against players that had part time jobs does that mean players on his team had part time jobs as well...?
No only Russell's teammates were full time ball players. And given that Wilt played on the opposite team he was a part timer too.
So Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, and Will Reed were all part-timers as well ?
Russell sucked at scoring. There's your reason why he isn't GOAT.
@@vsmith3rdliterally doesn’t matter
BAD false assumption. NBA players of the Russell era were full-time professionals, that made MORE than many lawyers, MOST electricians and other "professionals", and had NO NEED to work part-time.
Why do I love the animation soooo much? 😂
Apparently someone never saw Stockton play. He might or might not be the greatest passer in NBA history, but he is always in the conversation. Everyone in the building knew where he was going to pass the ball (to Malone) yet he kept getting it there
Yes everybody in the building knew Malone was getting the ball. Even Jordan knew it in game 6 of 98 which lead to Jordan's steal... game winner with a lay up before that play in the last 43 seconds of the game.
@@krump743 What a shock that the greatest player of the generation (and former Defensive Player of the Year) managed to stop Stockton on an occasion. Absolutely inconceivable. 🙄
@@MuRpHyKn0t Jordan never stopped Stockton tho Stockton set the cross screen on rodman..... 🙄 🤡
Yep, there have been nine 1000 assist seasons in NBA history and John Stockton has 7 of them.
if people go by micheal jordan needed pippen to win a chip. some people dont know how bad the bulls were before pippen and when micheal first joined😂 their nickname was literally the terrabulls. and they had to go againts larry and magic
Yeah, Remember in Jordan's 2nd season when he broke his ankle the team were not close to making the playoffs, Jordan returns and they make it, Pretty decent player to do that in my book
@@FrankMilanese To add to that, he faced the 1986 Celtics in the first round. He averaged 43.7 ppg that series dropping 63 alone in game 2 and this was against (who some would argue) the best Celtics team ever.
They were bad but through all time coaching and drafting they became absolutely stacked. in 1994, without MJ, Scottie lead the Bulls to 55 wins and weren’t far off from getting a title. Scottie was so good he lead the team in every category and was in MVP talks, in the Finals, the only thing MJ has more than Scottie is more shots and points. Scottie has more assists, rebounds, steals and blocks
It’s funny how oblivious y’all act, just because the bulls where bad when before Pippen doesn’t mean Jordan didn’t need Pippen to win championships, y’all love to ignore the fact that it was Pippen guarding Magic in 91 and that’s what turned the series around, sure Jordan still was the best player but let’s not act like Pippen was getting carried either 😂
Yeah the media does this with all the great except Kobe.
If Wilt’s rebounds don’t count because everyone missed at the time, shouldn’t he get more credit for his scoring figures?
That depends, would you count your scoring numbers if you played against a team of 10 year olds?
@@simondewitt7161 10 years old = fully grown adult with part time jobs.. Well done Sherlock
@@rxzileu-6645 7 foot 10 year olds lol
Wilt was the GOAT. You pointed out yourself, he played all his career again the Celtics who had Russell and a minimum of three other Hofers to throw at him every single game. So yeah, that he could even make it close against a deck that stacked against him. And the stats were not padded, he was just that much better than everyone else. Also the greatest athlete by far to ever play in American sports.
Wilt chamberlain is not the goat
Nice video. Imo the stat comparison you made only goes to prove that the value of a player goes beyond the stats :)
The problems with the G.O.A.T. debate (and the reason why I don't usually hold it too highly myself) is that there are multiple different flaws within it that cannot be resolved. For instance, I'd argue that the a player who accomplishes a feat, before anyone else, accomplished the hardest version of that feat. Once you see that something is possible, that eliminates any doubt in attempting it. couple that with growing up, having that standard in front of you while having other advancements come along to keep you in shape. Take Bird for instance, Larry didn't have a concrete reason to practice the long ball until he was 24, and even then he hardly if ever did, except for occasionally shooting with Ainge. Until that point, they were long 2s, novelties you might impress somebody with, while risking the coach's anger. Even then, he and a select group were immediately able to demonstrate a knack for it, and I would love to have seen how they would've done with the ground already broken. Some players are great in "their time". Others are limited by theirs and would be very interesting to see now. The "what-ifs" will shadow the debate for forever.
Goat debate is all about opinions
@@robinilouga True, but not everyone is willing to accept that fact.
True. I think if you look at everything. It comes down to Wilt and MJ though. They both dominated the court and their loses are justified. How was wilt suppose to beat the “infinity war” team and how the hell was the 80s bulls with a young MJ gonna beat 80s lakers and Celtics and the pistons played dirty to not let him advance. I think Wilt and MJ are the hardest to criticize
@@anthonyurso3554 That all depends on what criteria you're using. I'd argue that the two most dominant "Dynasty" runs belong to Russell and MJ. The two with the most effect on the rulebook are Wilt and Mikan. Every player has/had their strengths and weaknessesOn my personal list, I have Jordan and Bird sharing the top spot like a physical/mental "yin yang". But that's just it, their playstyles were so different on top of the different positions they played, I just have a really hard time designating a singular GOAT with all the differences in position and varying ways in which the legends were able to demonstrate their individual greatness throughout the decades. I'm not going to judge anyone for their choice.
@@anthonyurso3554 Finally someone with common sense. Ty. For me it's Wilt.
Also forgot to mention Curry's first ring simply came down to Kawhi getting injured with the Spurs being up 25 points but Zaza stepped in
That was 2017* his second ring and idk y y’all act like spurs would’ve won jus bc of 1 game
Need to get your years straight. The had the Pelicans (sweep), Grizz (6 games), and the Rockets (5 games), before they faced the Cavs. Not a single series went 7 games which says a lot when you consider how young and inexperienced their 3 best players were (Curry 27, Klay/Dray 25). People give that team flack for allowing the Cavs to win 2 games, but don't acknowledge that the Warriors in 2015 were the 4th youngest team in history to win a title. Iggy was the only player older than 29 who played more than 20 mins per game in the Finals. Not a single regular season starter was older than 27 (Curry/Bogut).
@@AndYouAre Still, went against 1 man lebron offensively and delly being his 2nd best player as he locked up curry but got hospitalized
His first ring was because of playing on a superteam and Love/Irving sitting out with injuries
@@AndYouAre I think you might be overdoing it a bit. The pelicans were missing 2 starters and they were much younger than the warriors. Grizzles had major injuries as well and when mike Conley played they won every game, granted it was only 2. That rockets team was ass. Clippers choked that WCF appearance away. They might’ve lost to LAC in 2015. In the finals, the warriors played a Cavs team without Kyrie and Kevin Love. That Cavs team also ran through their conference. That 2015 Warriors chip is prolly the shakiest one if you ask me. 2017-2018, it is what it is but no way they were winning against a healthy Cavs team in 2015… it didn’t happen in 2016
idunno Bro that LeBron one felt kinda personal 💀
Very weak case against Jordan. Sure expansion might have helped his team get 72 wins but his Bulls beat some very strong teams in the finals (esp '93 Suns and '97 & '98 Jazz; '96 Sonics won 64 games)). And Magic was 31 years old and still dominant when MJ beat him in the '91 finals (it was Worthy's leg injury that allowed the Bulls win so easily, not Magic being past his prime.)
Great vid pal. Absolutely we can always say every goat challenger is unworthy. You should do another one of this
The Warriors weren’t gonna win with Draymond in Game 5 anyway. Lebron got another 41 in Game 6 with Draymond playing in that one. I’d argue the bigger asterisk is the Andrew Bogut injury.
And we all found out after the series was over that Steph Curry had a Strain ACL. In that Finals.
@@lynchone117 He was still healthy enough to play and had 3 games to close it out. Not a strong enough asterisk for me.
@@railenherman6482 that your opinion, Steph made no excuses, if it was up to him no one would have known, I just want facts to be known, because everybody and their momma knows that Curry can take K. Love off the dribble!
I am glad to see this video. You have to take each player that everyone claims as the "GOAT" by what they did (according to their stats) and the era they played in. Cause if Shaq went up against Wilt Chamberlin, who would win? Or Bird vs Bryant? What I am getting at is each person in their prime could be the GOAT of that era, like MJ is the GOAT of the 90's.
Thats a lie. Scottie did lead them to the eastern conference finals, not almost. They literally went to 7 games and lost by a bad call. Ima peep your lies everytime im not a fake fan that just thinks what you say is fact. Get your facts right stop tryna make jordan look better
Wilt literally played against the most games and played against the most hot centers....his era also had the tallest centers 😭
Nope.
Manute Bol, mark Eaton, Ralph Samson....Hakeem, Ewing....all 80s bro.
@@deant3980 yup
@@deant3980 Walt Bellamy,Nate Thurmond,Kareem,bill Russell,Willis reed, ARTIS GILMORE, bob Lanier, ZELMO baety, bob macadoo etc all 60s and early 70s.bro🤷🏾♂️
@@JohnnyRodgers3 Finally, someone who mentions the centers during the 60s.. And early 70s... some guy discredit Wilt because it was full of part-time workers.. but those centers are talked about today for a reason.. His argument was that they were inefficient, part-time workers, and their free throw percentage was too low
I like how he used westbrook best peak season stats vs magics total career average stats
The Kevin love comparison is so disrespectful 😂
In defense of Jordan, I don’t really care about rings a lot because of the points he brought up, such as weak competition, but Jordan stats and the ways he can control the court can’t be denied
Rebound Rewind uploaded, a blessing to my day
Goddamn tell us how you really feel about lebron 😂😂😂😂
Magic Johnson still being alive is the most impressive thing he's ever done. Fucking badass
Great video idea
Thank you for acknowledging that bosh is a real life velociraptor 😂
The 91 Lakers average age was 28. Only 1 starter was over the age of 30. In fact, Jordan's 93, 96, 97, and 98 finals opponents were older than these Lakers.
You didnt consider the leagues avg possessions per game, when wilt chimberlain scored his 100 point game and avg 50 points per game the league had an avg possession per game of around 120-130 while during jordan's era the avg possessions per game was around 80 - 90
And after adjusting for that, Wilt STILL owns 4 entries on the all-time Top 10 scoring seasons - instead of 5 - and Jordan barely adds a second entry to his existing entry. Wilt's 6'th place DOES drop to 12'th though, near as I have it figured - but he STILL owns 3 of the Top 4.
those stats are wrong
Jordan is the GOAT. There is no other and no other comparison. ^6 rings, All with the same team/organization, Made his team mates better, Worked as a team to achieve, Backed up everything thing he ever said on the court. Did not lay out sick and played through things like the flue. Tough, no real time out or missing for injuries... Larry Bird would be second
Thank you. I swear so many people overrated LeBron because of the scoring record. LeBron is amazing but MJ is better because he is kinda scary
@@karyldavis9017what a stupid comment 😂
I've read somewhere that Jordan once said that the 90s Bulls (I think first three peat era) had no answer for Hakeem Olajuwon. So there was a good chance that 94 and 95 the Bulls could've actually lost in the finals, if they were to meet there.
The bulls could not beat the rockets in the regular season, the One team the bulls never got to play in the finals hmmmmmm...
Hakeem Olajuwon played like a man among boys.. Dude carried the hell out of the Rockets during the second run to the championship..
Yer hakeem and the rockets were so good they got the third 3peat since the 60s... oh wait they didn't even make the finals 3 years in a row. Hakeem was so unstoppable right
@@krump743 Chuck and the Suns only narrowly beat the Rockets in the 93 Conference Finals. Hakeem was dominant that whole series.
@@romanramirez7847 narrowly... there is no such thing as narrowly in the history books. Hqkeem and the rockets had a chance to 3peat and didn't get it done....
4/6 seasons before MJ won his first ring he averaged 20 points more then the 2nd leading scorer that's how much help he had on those teams lol and the 2 seasons he didn't were his rookie and 2nd year when he broke a bone in his foot 2 games in and came back to drop 63 and 49 on the All time Celtics in the playoffs in a valiant effort... and they still got swept 😂
Sport fans recognize the players that perform the best under the Greatest Pressure, Big Playoffs and championships, separate the elite players from the rest, get it???
It is Jordan for sure. He played in the most difficult and star studded era. Every team except maybe the Vancouver Grizzlies had at least one super star. The Toronto Raptors had TMAC and Vince Carter, Kings had Chris Webber. I don’t think there is a team from 1990-2003 that you could say didn’t have a superstar. The league was weak before because the Celtics and Lakers were so stacked and it has been a trash league since about 2015 with the complete lack of physicality and defense. I have always said the East has been weak too. Ever since I can remember even in the 90s it was the Bulls+1 and maybe 2 other teams. The west has always been the more competitive side. This is why playoffs should be seeded as a league and not West/East. You would see the best competition. Nobody wants to see a losing record team go to the playoffs other than their supporters. Casuals watch sports to watch competition not teams get steamrolled/swept.
Most difficult era? Imagine all those stars on on team.
@@ssnagoJordan is not the GOAT!
@@SICKOCLwho is the goat
@@RadioactivetigersKareem
The 90s the most difficult era? Nice joke
MJ and the claim that there were a lot of bad teams in the NBA, during the 90s ("a top-heavy league"): Well, yes, but then... why did MJ always IMPROVE his stats, come playoff-time? Hm...
Also, for Jordan detractors who say the 90’s were a “watered down expansion era league”, why did MJ put up individually better stats in the mid to late 80’s than he did in the 90’s with a worse supporting cast? He had Pippen in his first few seasons before he became a star in 1990-1991 and Phil Jackson became the head coach in 1989. Before that, Orlando Woolridge and Dan Carzine were his best help. For goodness, the Celtics and Pistons had stacked teams with multiple All-Stars in their primes. The Lakers had a superteam as well, but they were in the West. And Jordan still has the highest scoring playoff game dropping 63 points on the 67-15 Celtics with 5 prime HOFers who also had the #1 ranked defense that year with no help. Folks who bring up how Jordan didn’t win a whole lot earlier in his career omit the context that Jordan also started his career with a terrible supporting cast and that LeBron MISSED the playoffs his first two seasons, in a much weaker East. LeBron carrying a weak Cavs team is still impressive, but there should be no denying that he benefitted by playing in a weaker Eastern conference for a lot of his career.
Conclusion: Scottie Pippen is the goat
Notice how scalbrine was the one of the only guys in the video with no evidence against him?
Jordan was literally getting flagrant fouled on every play vs bad boys and you can argue that Jordan was the reason why Scottie game go to the level of play it did. Orlando shaq with timmy was no joke. Scottie didnt have a team full of crackheads when he did is playoff run, and jordan had to deal with carrying crackheads to the playoff
I loved the video, great work!
Like the video Im a Jordan fan of course and have no problem with any of those criticisms they're fun and subjective as all to of the criticisms of all the Goat's. I would like to add one of the main reasons for the expansions was MJ, very promotable and liked so in a way his popularity kinda paved his way to Greatness. 😊
No all his criticisms were dumb n lacked context tbh I’m bout to light his ass up all over these comments lol
@@qdontae6 he went off on LeBron way harder despite the fact that overall Bron is a better player
They promoted him so so hard
@@Tenchi707 Not anymore than any other star, you can say Nike, Gatorade, Hanes, but they invested in something they saw could sell their products. And a lot of athletes had there promo's as well, Barkley vs Godzilla Nike adds, Magic and Bird had a Converse commercial, all these guys had deals and all the NBA videos I recall had several all the NBA stars in them, Superstars of the NBA, Dazzling Dunks Basketball bloopers, Below the rim which didn't even feature MJ, NBA Jam, Michael had his own Video but so did Magic. So the NBA didn't promote Michael any more than they did any body else it's the fact that people wanted to see him, he was exciting every regular season game had playoff intensity because of MJs competitiveness. You can promote who you want doesn't mean their going to achieve great things, Grant Hill Dinks Sprite!
@@Tenchi707 debatable
There’s A LOT that statistics don’t measure -Clutch -Leadership -Timing (crucial plays at crucial moments... not always the same as clutch) -Teamwork (elevating teammates) -🏀 iQ -Hustle
Another asterisk for Jordan is that in either the 97 or 98 wcf the rockets were about to beat the jazz and go to the finals but in the closing seconds of game 7 Karl Malone illegally held drexler away from Stockton which allowed Stockton to make a wide open shot, but if Karl Malone got called for the hold then the rockets might have gone to the finals and beat the bulls
The Jazz won in game 6, not 7, so thats a huge if
I still like the Bulls chances in 1997 with homecourt, rest and no food poisoning for Jordan. The weakness at PG and SF for the Rockets would have become glaring.
an if story is not an asterisk to his name
Try again mate thats a pathetic argument. Considering during that era of physicality those plays were often let go.
How’s that a asterisk for Jordan because the Rockets couldn’t get the Job done? So Kobehas a asterisk Lebron got beat by Dwight Howard and the Magic?
You do realize the whole reason that The Cavaliers won is because also LeBron did block a shot
The reason they won against the spurs was because of LeBrons missed 3 too he was just playing 5d chess
@@josephmother2659 lebron games
Ray's shot is fantastic, I agree. But lets not forget that LeBron helped the Heat make a crazy comeback. I don't remember how much Bron scored, but I remember it helped the Heat a lot
@@alexanderhamilton6391 i think it was 14
@@alexanderhamilton6391 16 4th quarter points for lebron
8.4 assist is definitely not almost 11.2 assist LMAO
... what if Butler and Leonard ... ^^ Great video!
IMO, it's always a bad idea to compare players of different eras in any sport. Leagues change over time and so do the games themselves.
Great and entertaining video! The only thing I disagree about is comparing players' across different eras. They have different offensive/defensive mindsets and strategies so I don't think it's fair to do so. Although I know this video is just for fun tho so screw it!
Agreed
"The chosen one became the frozen one" This is a bar, goddamn
Love the video, Im always trying to throw a monkey wrench in these types of debates as well. I think the attribute that is the most important yet least focused on is the word greatest. This word can be extropolated to include the manner and circumstances by which they won. And the manner in which Jordan became such a huge star and going six for six in finals I thinks adds a certain shine that others don't have to lean on. The greatness of how flawless his winning was gives him the title for me even though I am a Kobe fan. I think "best" of all time is a more "fair" topic and kills the stat padding, eliminates the russels and curry's, while sticking back in defense.
these are a lot of asterisks but every all-time great player needs a great team, or a good team, to get a chance to win a title of course because basketball is a team sport of course keep up the good work bro loving the videos as always
They also need a good coach.
@@ddinfant679 correct
Yeah, the asterisks are a bit troubling. A successful team requires great players. The poster diminishes their greatness.
Larry Bird was the tuffest player in the paint, most hard working on the court the guy would go out read to fall on the sword each game. And he could great! One of the highest IQs ever. great clutch shooter, assists, 3time nba champion, 3 time MVP and 2 finals MVP, Rookie of the year and the list goes on. He did all this when the NBA was strong and tuff
I can’t believe he said that Lebanon’s 2016 ring was an unearned ring, I don’t know if he just didn’t watch it or he’s high because I would say coming back from down 3-1 to the best team of all time is a pretty well earned ring.
@@intellivisionmaster7999by himself ? Your sick . Kyrie averaged 30 ppg the last 5 games of that series , and hit a clutch 3 n game 7 to seal the deal , so to say Lebronze won it by himself , super disrespectful. And kevin love was a walking double double . Yall fanboys are delusional .
@@kauffamn1016 I’m not a fanboy; in fact I hated Lebron. But just giving credit where credit is due. Kyrie and Love wouldn’t have such open looks if Lebron wasn’t triple-teamed for 48 minutes. That’s like saying the Edmonton oilers didn’t need Gretzky to win 4 cups in 5 years since his buddies also had a lot of points. But still, you make a good case! Peace Bro!
@@intellivisionmaster7999 yeah , but even the goat Jordan needed a solid robin to win chips , pippin . It’s never a by yourself game . Not wanted highest level . Peace ✌️
You forgot curry not being able to beat the raptors in the finals jus because Kd went down. Curry could’ve easily carried the team but failed to Kawhi.
•Excellent video• Data analysis: 1) seen Kobe's whole career and the fact that he finished top 5 in scoring after starting his career on the bench is awesome. 2) Jordan and Wilt are the only two players in the top ten that BARELY played 1000games. Took everyone else 1200-1500 games 3) accurately lists LeBron's rings by circumstance.(youngbabyOKC-RayAllen saves the day-Kyrie clutch-Jimmy ButlerBubble)
Damn. Even worse case for Wilt. Scored all them points and records an he not even top 10 all time
The Kobe thing is super irrelevant. He played when he was 18,and by year 2 was playing 27 MPG. By year 3 he was playing 36+. MJ, Malone, Kareem all played multiple years in college.
@@hardwoodthought1213 & after his Achilles injury he was out the very next season with a knee injury, only player 6 games averaging 13.8 ppg on 42.5 % ,, & his last year he was just jacking up shots, your points and my points are the only reasons why his career ppg average and his career fg % is what it is exclude those years and his averages would be 27ppg on 46-47%
@@king-ghost1027 You’re saying just exclude his play as an 18/19 year old? If so, nah. He wasn’t that good when he was young we can’t just then ignore those years Kobe isn’t the only dude who had a major injury. KD tore his Achilles and is still 30+ a game on super high efficiency Either way, the fact we’re saying we have to remove 5 years of Kobes career to make him look better shows how far we go for him. Duncan played most of his career on 1 knee, no one mentions that
I point that out to ppl also with the Kobe thing but nobody cares but he do don’t finish #1 smh
I say pippen was better without jordan because he was already at his greatest powers while jordan without pippen, he was very young or very old
Dr. J is not even in the conversation?
Notice there’s no asterisk on Tim Duncan 🐐
Bill Russell won 2 high school championships, 2 college championships, and 11 NBA championships (with an 8 peat in there). He is by far the greatest sports champion ever.
But he isn't. Henri Richard matches him in team sports and there are plenty of individual sport winners that eclipse those marks.
Greatest Winner in Basketball yes. Sports as a whole? Debatable.
You left out the Olympic's Gold.
@@jrbudoybudoy Basketball is hands down - I can't even find a COLLEGE COACH that matches Bill's championship total. All sport as you say, though, there is room for debate.
2:07 you can hear him laugh at his own frozen one joke
With Jordan and Pippen, the numbers are nice, but otherwise pretty decent crap that doesn't take into account one major factor, and that is the coach. If you leave out the fact that Pippen had virtually their entire winning team at his disposal after Jordan left, and at the same time the fact that Jordan was practically really alone in his early years with the Bulls without a better teammate, the single most important factor affecting those stats and the Bulls' play is Phil Jackson. Jordan may have played like a god himself (as Larry Bird also said), but a good or great coach is necessary. He assembles the team, tells who will play and when, and prepares the game strategy. You have the stats of Pippen's play without Phil Jackson's guidance or without the superstars (which he had around him even when he left the Bulls). No, of course not. Because comparing the stats of Jordan, who came to the then-miserable Bulls, and Pippen, who came to a growing team (look at his stats for the first two years), which, moreover, was led by perhaps the best coach for a while after that, is all very unfair, to say the least. Pippen "alone" never had the weak teammates and coach that Jordan "alone" had. Sorry, but if you're going to do an analysis, do it properly and don't just pull out some numbers as you see fit, do it properly with proper context. Otherwise, it's not worth it.
"Just about the same assists as Magic Johnson" *Continues to show that Westbrook averages 3 less assists than Magic*
I always considered Hakeem to be the most underrated superstar as he never gets mentioned in GOAT debate.
Thete isnt qn argument
@@papadoc331 he's prolly the best two way player ever.
@@gqprince2 he still doesnt have an argument for goat. Also what does being the bets 2 way player ever even mean?
@@papadoc331 his total contribution on offense and defense are possibly higher than any other player.
@@gqprince2 so hes the most impactful ever? That would make him the best which you know isnt true
I feel like whoever made this video does not watch basketball
Wilt won in '67, Russell competition Wilt, and the West/Baylor Lakers, Petit led Hawks
Saying Piipen had a great record without Jordan than Jordan without Pippen ignores the fact that Pippen had way more help on his teams than Jordan did
Correct. But this is not me saying who is and isn't the GOAT, just for argument purposes. Lebron took a team to the NBA finals and Conference Championship in back to back years, then left and that team won 13 games and drafted Kyrie Irving. Jordan won three rings with the Bulls and then Retired. The Bulls won 55 games and made it to the Conference Finals without him, and nearly made the Finals again in a tough series with the Knicks. Pippen in fact does not get enough share of the Credit for those 6 rings that Jordan lovers give solely to Jordan.
@@violabeaumont3758 The bulls didnt make it to the Conference finals They made it to the second round. When Lebron left the Cavs he wasnt the only one to leave the Cavs the coach left and a number of player left. The Miami heat made the playoffs after lebron left so context is key
@@christiansoldier77 The Heat did not make the playoffs the following year. They won 37 games the following season. They made it back the following year however. As for the Cavaliers turnover. The entire core of the team remained outside of Lebron and an old and out of shape Shaq, who simply retired. They went from a playoff team to worst in the league with those two gone.
@Extinguish Idiot's I agree, but if you talk to Jordan STAN's they will act like he beat teams that were overall better than the Bulls roster, when in reality that Bulls team was stacked for 7-8 years. Lebron certainly did not win a ring until he got on a championship caliber squad also.
You sounding like Skip Bayless with the LeBron one 😂😂. #GOATJames
Yes. Such a LeBron hater. But i love this guy
Lebron segment legit the longest 😭
@@accountant3847 he's a MJ guy. With the MJ segment he actually puts down and then defends Jordan at the same time 😂😂.
Nah. I swear I heard Skip say that shit verbatim
This was fun!