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PvP was such a huge part of the MMORPG genre. It was the second pillar of these games, right next to PvE. But Player versus Player has seen a steady decline over the last decade, becoming nothing more than an afterthought.
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00:00 Intro
4:10 What makes PvP fun
10:17 PvP Battlegrounds
13:04 Battle Royals
17:32 Open World PvP
22:07 Hardcore Full Loot MMOs
22:50 The End of PvP
before you leave that mean comment remember i am attacking YOU PERSONALLY if you enjoy PVP.
Fine with me. I am just as anti-social and introverted in MMOs as in real life, haha.
As someone who enjoys pvp, I’m unfortunately going to have to take this L as I cant make a response video nearly as high quality as this
Im just here to let everyone know its not gay to kiss the homies goodnight.
you have interesting ideas on game design, I think that runescape is limited by its mechanics on why it cant have good PvP like you said
Everything is a personal attack thats why you cant call jews genociders
8:01 "I did like the video, because I do hate school" That's a bold thing to admit when you are being sponsored by a school.
The nostalgia flashbang of using that old free license song that was insanely common in like 2010 era youtube tutorials
"best royalty free song" search did not let me down
Holy fuck indeed, the nostalgia hit I did not know I wanted that much^^
009 soundsystem?
Does anyone know the name of the 8-bit song at 19:48?
@@erules7701 Undertale OST - Fallen Down
In my opinion its an unsolvable problem because the people that want mmo pvp don't want skill based combat, they want their infinite hours to give them free wins against others. Its the same logic that basically all open world pvp is just griefing instead of fair fights. PvP and MMORPGs are just wholly incompatible; PvP says "lets find out whos best on a level playing field" and MMORPGs say "lets reward players with power for their time". Like CoD and Fortnite would be unplayable if you got more hp and damage for each match you played, it would be a game only for those with no lives.
PvP lost a lot when it went from more or less a way to show off how powerful your items and character were to much more skill based systems most games have now. When you get killed by somebody who has the cool items you want you don't feel bad and understand why you got killed really easily. Their reward is the power flex and your penalty is basically nothing in a battleground or a couple of running back in the open world. Games and gamers now can easily get all the best and most meta items because times have changed. People used to guard secrets and strong builds back in the day because that was the most beneficial thing to do. Now with streams and socials it's way more beneficial to share that stuff so all the best info gets out there. He makes some great points about changing the focus to something else now, and I agree with him.
@@pulleyfm8585 Didn't notice or hardly notice a problem about the accessibility of open world PVP, I played MU private servers the longest out of any MMORPG's, cause you get stronger so quick there. And you can fight the like top 1% of players there, except the top 0.5 whales of course. The problem with pure PVP focused games(like battle royales) is the APM, you can't chill or take a piss or drink a coffee cause there's always action, not saying it's bad but you're not always on the mood to move all the time.
@@MangaGamifystarted playing mu myself on a private server in january, full pvp server, works out great with no cash shop. It's incredibly fun but there are always a couple people who play only to kill and inconvenience noobs who can not fight back.
When the 3 "R"s came up i was definitely expecting racism as one of them.
Your thinking of king Condor
Yeah, the fact that PVP has all these problems before mentioning the fact that beating people up for their lunch money is something only the shittiest people want to do, leading to the worst people imaginable flocking to a playstyle already disliked by the rest of the playerbase, really drives home the point.
@@Frommerman Yeah mmorpgs don't need to cater to all gameplays, if I want to pvp... I just go play cs2 or ow2 or literally any other game actually designed for pvp.
I was thinking "retard" because of the wildy clans 😅
As an OSRS player with a single character, knowing there’s people who have PvP specific alts whose skills are specifically built to pk for lower level areas is enough for me
As someone who was ganked for 6hrs on his first visit in STV on some private server I hate non-consensual PvP in MMO. I like to play shooters where it's main focus, but if I want to hit my "do this world quest 20 times" in WoW achievement I just do it in the dry seasons.
I can't believe you only have ~45k subs. You've been coming out with some absolute bangers! Keep up the great work
Just wait for that Asmon reaction
Surely he already has lmao Hes branched into wow dives a few times now @userdata5023
@userdata5023 yeah then he will gain ~5 subs lmao
When it feels like the channel has less subscribers than it deserves, it's a good sign.
Im supprised you didnt mention EVE Online. since they have a neat balance of PvP.
"How do I avoid PVP in EVE?" "Don't log in."
Not mentioning EVE kinda shows that he doesn't know anything about full loot PvP in MMORPGs. EVE is literally the best example of how to do open-world PvP properly. EVE has been around since 2003 and has nailed open-world PvP ever since. The open-world PvP of EVE is so good that Albion Online literally copied it, and thanks to this, Albion Online is now thriving. That's how you do open-world PvP, period.
The problem with EvE PVP, as I understand it, is its ubiquity. Players who enjoy that get to have it, but it drives off players who don't want all PvP all the time. So it works because everyone who doesn't want it is gatekept from thw game entirely.
@@Frommerman Hmm so people who don't like the premise of the game are not playing it? Wooow!
I think that the main issue with pvp in a MMORPG also fails whenver devs try and make it because the pvp player in general does not want a fair fight, they want a fight that they have a massive advantage on so whenever a pvp mode comes out that that is fair it becomes dead content to any pvp player.
This reminds me of GW2. In it there's the fair pvp mode(Gear doesn't matter) known as PvP and its under populated and never has a queue to join. Meanwhile the open world pvp mode called World vs World (WvW) that makes gear matter and lets you effectively auto win by getting a massive hoard of teammates, is fair the more popular game mode. WvW also routinely gets long join queues for specific maps that they had to make a mini map known as the edge of the mists for the overflow players.
Yeah, the idea that pvp players want a fair and interesting fight is way off base in my opinion, most of the time they seem like they just want to prey on people unprepared to fight back. All the luring in RuneScape being a great example.
Exactly. Look at the fuss the Elden Ring PvPer's put up about not being able to invade people. Their fun is in ruining other's game experience, not in a test of skill.
Eso was not like that. The general pvp player wants there to be a skill cap. Which might make it unfair for the unskilled, but it is something that makes your time worthwhile.
@kristoferprovencal3608 you're taking a vocal minority and generalizing to a bigger group.
The funniest part to me is that a lot of average PvP'ers will hyper fixate on those extremely rare moments where they overcame a single huge disadvantage, but then completely forget the 100 other situations where they brutally lost in the exact same, or worse, scenario.
I've played MMOs since 2006 and I'm not an MMO PvP enjoyer. The appeal of MMOs to me always lay in the social aspects of the genre. Meeting new people, building social groups and doing fun activities together. To me PvP runs counter to that side of the game. The fact that PvP rewards are unlocked by reaching predefined milestones set by the developers tends to put players at odds with one another, and leads to players having to perpetually work at improving their skills. If a member of the group isn't as invested as the rest of the group they're likely to be ejected from the group because they're not good enough. That social dynamic is not very healthy, and I wish that more MMO players would take a step back and examine how they allow the game to shape their attitudes towards other people and the game. I've played thousands of hours in other PvP games like Dota, CoD and CS because those games facilitate PvP extremely well. It's a core element of those games. But MMO PvP could never hold my interest. It's just not the strength of the genre.
Something to remember about Ultima Online the entire economy was based around open world pvp, so losing your gear meant the players who only played as a blacksmith would have income. Crafting was an entire template so they could really only make money off if other players purchasing gear multiple times. Also reaching "max level" was mostly trivial in the beginning because it was skill point based not actually levels. The best gear was also easily obtained so the accessibility was nearly instant even for high skill play. Power creep has set in fully with the retail release and pvp could take years before a player has enough gold to even attempt it now. A free version of Ultima Online called Outlands has done some pretty great things to return the game to a state where the original pattern is still recognizable as far as open world pvp is concerned. You are absolutely right that accessibility is the main key for pvp to be accepted by the player base. Reaching comparable level, getting multiple load outs of gear, and allowing players to keep jumping back in are things that can be achieved but the focus on pvp has to be there from the beginning. Mixing high end pve such as ,mega bosses, and increasingly powered gear with brutal pvp only works for a little while as players are learning the game and still trying to level up.
i see idyl video, i click like button
i see positive comment, i click like button.
U bot
I recently found the channel and I've developed this mindset sp im still up at 6am to watch new idyl video lol.
Dogs go "bark" cows go "moo" MMORPG players go "the pvp is unbalanced!"
A true fan falls asleep to Idyl's silky smooth voice, providing one entire uninterrupted view. And THEN rewatches later to actually absorb the information. And then comments for engagement.
I just miss spamming random battlegrounds in WoW sooo much bro. 😭
You still can?
@zoonal-gg too many pre-mades these days
"I think most pvpers would like to be challenged more" osrs wildy pk teams will disagree. They only thing they want is powertripping, because there isnt even alot of money to be made pking compared to pvm
Something similar happened with destiny 2, there was 2 weapons that were exclusive rewards from hours of pvp, that were the best weapons in pvming, and so it resulted in a lot of pvmers just being angry and frustrated that they were forced to interact with the pvp. I believe the dev response was to just make the pvp weapons shit from then on.
Happened in WoW too, during Mists of Pandaria. The legendary cloak required several PvP wins, and the cloak was generally a PvE item. Which resulted in a lot of PvEers growing dissatisfied on the forums and other places. Only to be met with the oh-so-common "git gud". I was a PvPer at the time and had a lot of fun rolling over the inexperienced PvEers, but looking back I was probably being a jerk.
@oliverwilhelm6171 if anything it exposed that most pvpers get bis then don't touch rated until next season. Just stomping noobs or playing other games
Open world PVP is mostly fixed by Private servers(with high rates) being able to max out quicker than your average game. If one of the gatekeepers was being high level and gear, your average private servers resolves that
>Blizzard's Plunderstorm BR >high skill combat Best joke of the week.
i'm kind of a jokester
Yea right up there with yet another inane dig at Plunderstorm.
@@wolfspirit12223fellas, we found the one plunderstorm enjoyer
@radthepaisley it seem like plunderstorm enjoyers are the majority
PvP skill level is kinda set by the community around the activity. Even if a game has complex and difficult mechanics, PvP can still be easy if the playerbase are bad at it. The opposite also applies if the game is easy and simple, but the players are extremely skilled in it.
"The fun was optimized out of the game" Yeah, that's what MMO's feel like a lot of the time nowdays, especially older ones like WoW.
New World is a fine example of a new MMO that was optimized before it even launched!
Yup. I tried WoW for the first time with Season of Discovery. It was great until I hit the level 25 cap in phase 1, and tried raiding. I was raiding with a good group so it went smoorhly, but I didn't understand why I was doing anything and didn't want to have to do research to learn the meta. I've since quit because playing WoW as a new player is like showing up to the Tour de France with a cheap Canadian Tire bike. Everyone else has been training daily for 20 years and is wearing all the best biking gear.
@@GothixZa Why I don't watch all the tutorials/meta discussion and just mess around. Way better for my mental health, than obsessing over the latest "bests"
@@Doombringer55 well starting with Season of discovery is literally a recipe for confusion. Its like loading up an expansion pass before playing a base game and complaining its too complicated. Personally, as someone trying to get into RS in 2024, that feels much more like the Tour de France than learning what stats and spells to use and press in WoW. Literally cant do shit without a wiki open beside me.
@@Doombringer55 Wait what's the problem? It sounds like the raid went well.
Turns out, games that have you stand still to use half of your abilities that are just canned animations with damage properties and minute-long crowd control meant to fight bosses that take 50 people to defeat, and where your power level is based on how long you've spent grinding for gear with bigger numbers aren't that fun to fight other players in. Who would have thought?
Yeah, WoW is for nerds.
"The R is silent, shut up" lmao got me good.
Using this audio in the beginning of the video while already reminiscing on early gaming memories is setting my nostalgia meter to levels I hadn't experienced since the re-release of OSRS lmao
if you didnt know the name its called Trance - 009 Sound System Dreamscape
@@Tranewrekk thank you! It was in my playlist somewhere but it's been so long I couldn't recall the name right away, but the heart recognizes these tunes immediately haha
There are lots of guilds in Mortal Online 2 that openly accept new players. I played WoW for 15 years before hearing about Mortal Online 2, switched, and I've never looked back. 6 months in I still suck at the game, but I have lots of fun with it. Additionally, the crafting system gives players who only enjoy crafting/gathering/pve a way to enjoy the game.
2003 to 2007 runescape pking scene. I was there. Anti rushing claws, pking 100m godswords. Owning the high lvls who think they're better. Taste vengeance!
I remember back in 2006 or '07, my friends would get me supplies to level up my smithing to the point where I could smith full steel, equip that with our rune scimmies and just go to town in f2p lol
I think your final message sums it all up really well, and does a good job representing my experience. When I was playing ffxiv, I enjoyed the pvp because it was a casual style of pvp in a casual kind of game, I was able to get decent and hold my own because the skill ceiling was an appropriate height to where the best players still had advantages, but every now and then I could get a run going. I also play osrs and the pve is open and lets me be a casual, but I won’t even go near pvp in that. I appreciate the skill set it takes to be good, but I want nothing to do with it
Something that resonated with me from the video was the mention of how battlegrounds have been optimized into being stomped by groups of coordinated players. I was wondering what made this new battleground mode in an MMO I like start to sour with time, and I see that the thing that has changed with time is that, as a solo queuer, I am increasingly faced with teams of 5 who use coordinated meta tactics that cannot be combatted with random teammates. It's taken a lot of the fun out of it, since a team of 5 is inaccessible to me, and the issue is compounded by the fact that all of the progression in the current seasonal event is tied to this battleground mode, forcing me into this pretty disheartening cycle.
Maps should have narrow corridors where people can only go in/out one at a time, allies also can't go through over/under their allies, if you had watched 300 Spartans you know what I mean.
I think pvp has a place in battlegrounds and arenas in World of Warcraft. Depending on the pop and the community of certain realms wpvp can be more acceptable than what was described here about many other games.
Early UO Days Full Loot PvP was just the standart. When MMOs changed to themepark ( and used gear as motivation and character progress) the formula didn't work because no one wants to loose weeks of time invested. Nowadays Albion does a nice job. With full loot and non full lot options. Also gear has the same value as Buff food in other games.
There is a really cool niche open-world faction PvP MMO that I've enjoyed playing called StalCraft. It's an MMO set in the S.T.A.L.K.E.R universe with a "half-loot" PvP system, that I think solves some of the issues you mentioned. You go on expeditions out of your safe zone to gather materials that can be sold, equipped, or used to upgrade your gear, but if you are killed by a member of another faction, they can take your loot. However you will never lose your gear that you have spent hours grinding for. You lose your ammo, consumables, and the items you gathered on your expedition. So at most, you're risking some money you spent on supplies, and on the spoils of your expedition. It makes the entire gameplay experience more tense and exciting due to the looming risk of PvP, but you don't get too disheartened by dying, because you're only losing the progress you made since leaving the safe zone. And you also feel motivated to kill enemies because you can get their spoils and make your trip more profitable. As an FPS, it's also easy to understand and get into PvP. You never have to feel bad equipping your best gear because you know it's safe, which makes progression more satisfying.
Great video Idyl! I think that pvp with default gear sets or loadouts often results in a complete detachment to your character- I agree. At the same time, pvp systems without this "equalize the playing field" results in unfair situations where now, to even engage in PvP, you have to grind for the optimal gearing to even attempt to learn PvP. A compromise has to be in order and I haven't seen many games try to implement something like removing enchantments, consumables, and other "extra" factors in order to make gearing necessary but not overly tedious. Elder Scrolls Online, for example, runs into the issue that you really need to grind quite a bit to get pvp gear sets with the optimal traits (that require time to research), and enchants. In this case, a good idea would be to disable enchants and traits and make gearing necessary, but not extremely tedious. I also do think that, this combined with a PvP arena (like 1v1, 3v3, 5v5, etc) would be a good way for players to learn to play PvP without the barrier of entry being too large and at the same time, still preserve that attachment to one's character. It's not a perfect solution, but it's something. PvP is incredibly hard to incorporate in an MMORPG and I think to do so requires some serious creativity on the developer's part. Ashes of Creation is trying to handle open world PvP with their Karma system but I'm not sure how that can work.... Another issue with open world PvP that you touched on is emergent behavior. Developers cannot predict how players, on mass, will behave over time. This is the issue with emergent gameplay that inherently involves disruptive player to player interaction.
MMO-RPGS are about increasing your character power, if you cant do that in pvp then there isnt even a reason to have pvp in there either.
MU online solves PVP by disallowing quick/instant travel, be attacked by powerful guards(or something like towers) that bypasses resistances and is a percent of max HP. and most if not all NPC won't do business with them, tho to remove "phonomania" status you have to pay a really huge sum of gold, even higher than crafting the best weapons. I don't play wow so don't quote me on that, but it's such a simple and if I dare say genius way of making people 2nd guess of killing other players.
Been gaming for 35+ years, been online gaming at least half time spent since rainbow six and ultima online... Used to be a figurehead of a 200+ player guilds and ran communities etc... Now its just me and about 12 others who casual game and kick it.. none of us play any competitive games anymore.. we gave up on them completely for nearly 2 years now, we spent about 2 years prior hunting for our next forever game. Answer why? Cheats, toxicity, and pay2win. Anything competitive brings out those 3 types of people.. cheating in competitive games feel like you just cant know what was legit anymore... Life is so much better getting off the mmo and competitive games, kicking it with dark tide or anything else on gamepass, and living our lives without digital drama and toxic behaviors forced around you
Maybe join in the Vroid/MMD/Dan Sing community where all we do is animations like sing and dance?
Can you do a video on Flyff Universe? I have been enjoying it a lot, and I see it gets a lot of mixed reviews. I never played the original back in the day. So maybe I am just not jaded yet, but I would like to know your opinion on the game. Thanks for another great video!
I'm a very casual OSRunescape player who only uses the wildy when I really need it. I appreciate that the wildy has some nice rewards at the risk of being PK'd.
The most recent time I got pked in osrs was when I was 4-iteming a clue step and some sweat started freezing, vengancing, and like swapping overheads like a madman. I didn't even lose anything, but that experience just completely turned me off the the idea of pking in osrs. Ceiling is too high and I don't have time to learn all the tick perfect clicking required to get a good pk
I just bought my rune pouch at the GE, instead of grinding Last Man Standing 😅
Hey how did you not mention Albion online? That game has the healthiest pvp pve balance and the only mmo I play due to that balance
hey idyl, just wanted to ask if you can make a plugin for RL of an idea i had, basically the plugin allows you to play osrs like a 3RD PERSON SHOOTER, the camera is always facing your character's back side ,and when ever the character change directions the cam moves with it, and its always on the lowest height setting possible, and i think the character should be a little transparent so you can see what is Infront of it. please like if you think this is a cool idea, so boldy can see it. love you btw
I think the only reason I've always gravitated towards MMO's that have open world PVP, is because the extra added element of danger and the "social" aspect of making enemies/friends. That being said, my favorite MMO of all time FFXI basically had no PVP, and I didn't actually know that was a thing that people did until WoW came along. I hate first person shooters, but I love games like Chiv 2 and Mordhau which is where I believe "MMO type PVP" thrives.
Can you review the game Tibia??
More like death of PVP in established publishers, when there's surging emotions(like looking for something) + a gap in the market = someone would eventually makes them.
Jagex says nah, and releases a pvp update to spite you.
Unreal Tournament 2004 was peak PVP XD
I think pvp in osrs would be more popular if you could just have hot keys for individual prayers. F1 prot melee, f2;mage etc
bro the music right at the start really set the vibe
I wish discord would get this video a billion views
Fine I'll just make my own massively popular chatting app i guess 🙄
Being ganked is not fun .
I just wanted to point out that dying in Albion in fact has a penalty and it's not a nice one, especially for casual players. The stuff you're wearing is damaged pretty bad for every death you experience and it's pretty pricey to get it repaired if you have higher level equipment.
loved the video thanks
Guild Wars 2! WvW is an incredibly well done PvP mode!
I dont think PVP needs rewards. Winning the fight / battle / clan war can be its own reward. But personally I could just never bring myself to compete on the ultra sweaty absolute meta build gear tick perfect level it has evolved to. Absolute blasts were had back in the day having 200 player battles in the back of wildy with just the best shitty gear we could scrounge together on our noob accounts. Or even on castle wars for that matter, the cosmetic rewards were there but we just played it cus it was fun. Nowadays the only people playing castle wars are completionists and it's not even a game, it's just a bunch of people making arbitrary rules to get through the game as quickly and boringly as possible. Maybe it's just runescape and its aging playerbase but maybe the problem is you've all massacred your inner child.
Having a sensible chuckle at Idyl casually showing one of the most spoiler-ridden fights in FFXIV as he talks about general PvE
All could be fixed with more rewarding pvp. You can’t tell me that if bdo on console came out with a new 5v5 tournament style mode with pearl rewards, leaderboards, and gear payouts the environment wouldn’t change fore the better. Reward players for pvp. Open world. Node wars. Siege. Rbf. All of it. Not just some minor silver that will get thrown down the drain trying to enhance gear. Albion Online is pretty good for pvp but it lacks in character design and mechanics compared to most other games. If bdo and Albion Online had a baby, that would be a great game.
Is pvp in this video different from "zerg vs zerg" or "ganking"?
I was not prepared to see idyl without a hat
Great Vid ! I loved the pvp in ESO. I feel it was more accessible. Loved the 4 v 4 v 4 and going in Cyrodiil with the gang or randoms. Sieging, fighting, surviving, learning. Will definetly go back at it soon!
Guild Wars 2 has really cool PVP. You've got the 5v5 mode that's basically a MOBA. And the Realm v Realm mode that's basically open world siege warfare. Everyone is scaled up to max level so it's automatically more fair, and is easier to get into in some senses (but more complicated to learn in others). It's very rewarding (on par with other end game content), but hasn't had any real dev work put into it in ages. Makes me a lil sad.
your Intros keep getting better and better mr president
Need the link for the music at the end. Cover of boulevard of broken dreams
The MMO with the healthiest relation with PvP is GW2 (I love the game but even if I didn't I would say it). You can get PvE rewards from playing both sPvP and WvW. sPvP gear is also completely equalized and pretty easy to find casual matches. WvW uses your own gear but its not hard to get a good build going..
Diablo 2 pvp in the early 2000's was peak PVP content. There were lvl 18 and evne lvl 30 pvp builds. Truly incredible.
WTF HAPPENED TO CLAN WARS (Purple Portal) we used to have so many clans and had wars regularly….
Clan wars back in the early 10s was legendary
The clans died. I was part of that scene all the way until eoc dropped. We did like 2 fights in eoc and everyone promptly quit. I can't speak for osrs, but my understanding is that clan pvp simply never recovered from it.
Bro nothing beats being told at school to go to clan wars when we get home and a good 20/30 of my class was there on like level 20-50combat
People became to sweaty all the regular players got bored
PvP needs to be presented in a specific manor and most just sling it in there all willy nilly :) Also PvP needs to be molded for the actual gameplay loop which no studio till now does. In the lands of PENANCE PvP is presented in a multitude of ways. You will chose your style and level of PvP from the minute to minute interlock systems to out right stabbing someone in the face. Much love from the PENANCE team!
28:03 wait your huge old school RuneScape player??? Not only the president of MMOs but also a huge osrs player. What a legend
As a PvPer of 20 years you hit the nail on the head wpvp is what is good about mmo PvP I expected to be mad at this video but you nailed it. Most people looking in from the outside fail to get this point
PvP used to be super popular, as content used to be lacking for PVE. Now Bossing has become way more enjoyable for the average player. I still like PvP in concept, but it's not something I really do anymore.
I think what made pvp in PlanetSide, Foxhole and Gloria Victis fun and Eve and Albion pvp not fun is how you choose your team. In a fun game, you choose a faction to fight for. In a not fun game, you can become a cog in one of the 3 mega gangs or ware through the politics and policies of about 1,000 smaller games and all you wanted to do was some relaxing pvp.
It took 27 minutes, but you did finally make the same argument I always do about osrs pvp. I've played since 2004, and the pking issue has and always will be power creep. People are definitely better at it now, but that would be entirely irrelevant if we were in a 2005 metagame where the only real way to stack somebody out in a single game tick was with a gmaul combo. It's truly in 2006 with 1h crossbows, void, dbow, lunars, and rfd gloves that things began to get out of hand. These things were all massive spikes in player power, and the power creep just kept snowballing from there with gwd(specifically ags) the next year. But hey, I'm just an out of touch runescape boomer. Clearly.
Video has only been playing for 5 seconds and I've already died of cringe. Keep up the good work.
I still love PVP on a fair playing ground. But once you introduce any level of pay-for-advantage, it loses all credibility. I dont even unserstand how Gacha games have "conpetitive PVP". All in all, great video. Subbed
Fun in general was optimized out of games when you can search anything about a game and get an answer. The only way to really experience things these days is single player and not looking up any spoilers. Otherwise you risk being spoiled.
Tried runescape as a teen looking for a break from wow. Spent a month farming a Robin hood set and finally found my first clue. It took me into the wilderness and right as I was about to finish it I got killed. That cause me to quit and never touch a pvp game again lol
That intro was great lol
Problem is gear is exponentially higher in terms of cost and time to get, if they really want to make average players interact with it in any meaningful way they need to just limit the gear used in these scenarios to ones that dont cost 10s or 100s of hours to get
Big problem with battle royals is the large amount of luck that is needed for the win.
Easily within the top three best bald KZheadrs
Dawg you are such an underrated youtuber. It's as if J1mmy and Josh Strife Hayes created the perfect KZheadr and named him Idyl
A baby 👶
the sheer amount of dev time wasted on pvp updates in osrs could result in over 2 full years of updates.
I think the only time I really had fun with PVP in an MMO was hunting cursed energy bots in RS3. Killing them, getting 200k worth of cursed energy, then trying to escape back to Edgeville without getting killed by someone else doing the same thing was a lot of fun - though it was more "very risky PvE" than true PVP.
21:43 Yes. That's why a majority of them will seal club the second they get the opportunity. Seal clubbers are the target audience of MMORPG PVP or really any other high-risk PVP game with no matchmaking. They don't care about getting an engaging fair fight, they just want to annihilate someone who has no idea what's happening so they can feel like their hours were worth it. That's why Git Gud is their go-to response.
For me, PvP was the reason to play through these games. WIthout PvP, the PvE serves me no purpose and the game is no longer enjoyable
bold of you to say you hate school when you are sponsored by school
I assure you, PVP really is about murdering other players and not getting murdered.
One thing to remember about pking in 2007 is that things like pathing were really different from modern OSRS. I have a feeling it would take a little adjusting to go back to those servers.
As a pretty casual gamer - I like pvp. I think it should be in every game, if possible. There are ways to irk out a lead in any competition and balancing is truly impossible, but video games make it a safe space to experiment. And when you win, it feels great. If losing feels terrible, you're playing the game wrong. Good video, I liked your closing argument even though I kind of disagree with it.
In my opinion: PvP game modes can and do work as long as they are given enough support/bugs get fixed/now and then content gets added. A lot of games have promising premises for pvp game modes, but those ultimately end drying up or declining because they don't see much support. Then the same old predictable death spiral starts to occur: bugs run rampant for years on end, people participating get tired of feeling ignored, they become emptier and emptier. PvP above all else does not work if it doesn't get maintained now and then - like any other game mode. The state of pvp is in many games a community of people (usually feeling ignored for years on end) pleading and hoping with all their heart that somebody working as a dev decides to give them something - anything - instead of continuing to ignore and let the jank/problems/bug/unfun balance issues build up. It's frustrating how common this problem actually is, especially as there is no real need for it. The pvp lot aren't asking for miracles or expansion pack sided efforts - just clean up and every once in a blue moon a bit of new content. Yet even this feels like it's asking for too much despite the potential and promise being there. Yet because of how it's declined (due to no support) no support is given, so it's basically a catch 22 type scenario where the reason is the problem and the reason is because of the problem.
Really enjoyed this video. Lots of agreements on my end. Also remember being on 1Mbps cable internet while 80% of others on dial-up doing open world full loot pvp in UO. Always hidden advantages to be had lol
Idyl i gotta give it to you, i respect you so much for putting up a video of you when you are sick, next level standards!
2:45 is this a lowkey Scarab Lord reference?
Damn that Jade Quarry clip really sent me back to nostalgia land
an interesting case to look at might be guild wars 2. it has a pretty skill based pvp system with basically no barrier to entry besides having to get good at it. it also has a faction based open world pvp with territory based objectives. both modes are reletively populated too but I never see them discussed outside of the game
Part of the problem with PVP in mmos nowadays is that honestly, if you want to opt in to a pvp experience, you're much better off just logging in to a different game where pvp is the ONLY focus. MMO's like WoW succeeded on this front so well back in the day because there was no other games that did pvp as well as it. At least that's how I feel now.
The biggest problem about PvP in MMOs is the game itself. Like the game has to cater to both PvE and PvP. And that's different from games that are entirely focused on PvP. Like a Moba, they can nerf the damage of a certain skill in order to promote balance. In an MMO there can be a skill that's overpowered in PvE or PvP. Then it gets nerfed. Then in both activities the balance is harmed. The skill that was already bad in PvE was just made way worst, and same vice versa for PvP. Not even mentioning the time sink. Like a Moba you can queue up for a game, spend 10-20+ minutes to see if you like or hate the gameplay, and that's all the investment needed. Most MMOs the time investment is over 100+ hours, and that's just gearing up to see if you like the PvP or not.
I have no idea how you haven’t blown up yet. Each one of your videos are quality watches!
I'd suggest taking a look at Gw2. Of all MMOs I've played, their world vs world mode is the best MMO pvp experience imo. As someone who generally avoids pvp, I like gw2's quite a bit.
Another big problem with modern pvp in MMO’s is the prevalence of micro transactions giving people advantages. Even exp boosts give someone an advantage to wear dying in pvp never feels fair
That’s bald to assume pkrs don’t enjoy killing random players. There’s so many nihilistic acorns out there who will think it’s the best thing ever and think they are masterful.
and difference in ping/latency... If it was possible to have a game where everyone got "handicapped" to have a similar ping with other players.. people with 3ms would cry, but it would be great