Pro bikes have come a long way! The Pinarello Dogma is one of the most iconic bikes within the pro peloton, but how far has it come? Ollie got his hands on Bradley Wiggins's old pro bikes and is here to guide us through the ins and outs of these modern legends.
00:00 intro
00:54 Dogma 2
05:47 Dogma F8
09:36 Dogma F
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Which version on the Pinarello would you choose? 🤔
Racing take the lightest with some aero improvements and training take heaviest
F8
F8 purely for historical reasons and the colourway is perfect. Ollie seemed to enjoy it too. If my "unreasonably rich friends" were footing the bill, the F would be nice.
Latest Dogma F if you are paying
Did you film this is Christmas common?
F8 without disc brakes is the choice from me. Narrower bars and modern components on that would make it even better than the F, imho. Manufacturers just shooting themselves in the foot these days, when you cannot choose a rim brake option.
May I ask you why?
Still have my Dogma 65.1 from 2014. Love it ❤
I’ve got a 65.1 black on black dogma. From 2013. All built with seam red 10 speed. And some Zipp 404.
Ollie, never believe what you get told! There were lots more than four of those Prologo "mod" saddles made. I have one, and I can tell you where another is 😉. As for the wheels, I can tell you who Brad got the Zipps from too 😊 The 2012 bike is a beauty IMO.
What an amateur 😉
There he is! Hopefully we see you back in the tech shop one day
I'd love an appearance from 'my grubby little hands again' 😁
@@gcn nah, it's easy to imagine that such a saddle would be made in very limited numbers. Ollie did a fantastic job presenting this video. But, I do feel his saddle is about 2-3mm too high
23mm tyres only?! I still have my dogma 65.1 and it could run 25mm tyres no problem at all!
The Dogma F8 a pure beauty great content ollie and had the privilege of seeing those rim brake bikes at the London Olympics and TDF.
The golden year! ⭐️
I’ve been lucky enough to own a dogma 60.1, 65.1 and an F8. The F8 on a dry day (I only took it out in the dry - was too afraid to trash the wheels), it’s the best bike I’ve owned. I kinda feel it’s better than my tarmac Sl7.
The F8 is a great bike! Do you still have it? 👀
Le meilleur vélo c était le Cannondale super six
can you describe the characteristics of the dogma 60.1/65.2 😊 
Would be really interesting to see an f8 modified with ultra modern components to see how much you can get it under 6.8 kg
I think because he only had access to Bradley Wiggins bikes he could only review those two but I think the F10 has got more possibilities and also with a few German lightweight component you could get an absolute light bike.
propably sub 5kg
@@jaskepinski1096 Are you being serious? Do you think that is possible?
Yes, with aero narrow handle bar will be nice!
@@yutehube4468 i mean with a drill anything is possible
Where’s the wind tunnel test?
It is impressive how long Ollie can talk about the differences of how the bikes feel, while I am sure the only thing I would be able to say is 🤷♂️
Hahahaha he really knows what he's talking about. You've got to be careful not to set him off
1 minute in and I'm already thinking a certain Australian youtuber that is typical quite vocal on his views of gcn might actually enjoy this one lmao
I'm sure we'll find out 😉
Yes my bro Mr DR 👊👊
@@leonsutton299 pmsl see didn't have ti say it
who are you talking about?
@@outtrigger Mr dr
Currently riding a 2014 S-Works Tarmac SL4 with the final iteration of Dura-Ace R9100 mechanical and just replaced the Dura-Ace C24 wheels with the same. It's light, fast and far more capable than I will ever make use of. 26C tires are nice and while I can "squeeze" a 28C in the front, the frame is stuck at 26C. SoCal dry weather is where I ride so discs are not necessarily and Di2 will not make me any faster!
These are great...fantastic comparison vid!
I love my F8 and my F10. They roll like on rails both and always seem to push you to go faster. Quite unique feel I would say. The F10 is a bit faster and that bit less harsh. Phenomenal how advanced the F8 was back in 2015.
F8 came back in 2014
Hey everyone. The wind tunnel comparison is coming out, hopefully this weekend on GCN Tech
Has pinarello blocked the wind tunnel vid? ;)
My F8 is phenomenal, I don't like disc brakes at all, so it would be another F8 for me 👍
Yeah. I sold my 2000 Super Six Evo HM Dura Ace last year to do a Dura Ace rim brake bike build. Nothing wrong with disc brakes. They work for many, but I living here in Southern California, prefer rim brakes.. I love the feel of them when braking and the frame feels livelier.
It's definitely an amazing bike!
It's a great bike but how much time do you have riding comparable descents with disc brakes? They're simply better across the board with braking, and wet weather just makes that gap larger
@@veganpotterthevegan, noisy, scraping, look rubbish, poor areo, too powerful for such a small patch of rubber on the road, just look at all of the accidents in the pro races.
It's funny you mentioned the Dura Ace Di2 on the 2012 model. Back then SRAM's marketing was trashing electronic shifting, telling us that mechanical shifting was for the true cyclist. I had a 2011 Felt F1 with Dura Ace Di2. The only issue I had was the stress of thinking if something failed, I was in trouble on longer rides. The system was trouble-free.
Fine but the mechanical system is trouble free too. Minus the stress...?
@@automotive474 I agree. I like Di2, but have been moving back to mechanical while I still can. Plus, it makes riding more enjoyable when you're riding long distances. The fear of something failing sticks with you if you've ever had a battery go bad or a component malfunction. Mechanical eliminates that stress, as you mentioned.
@@terbennettelectronic shifting failures are nearly always due to not charging. The rare instances of equipment failure are probably no more common than a broken shifter cable.
Those are some gorgeous bikes! What a great privilege you've had, getting to ride such cool bikes.
It was a fun day in the office 👀
Would be interesting to stack up the f10 and 12 too. I still think the 10 is my favourite ❤️
only I notice in previous generations is the refinement. new design/setup becomes more refined in speed, comfort, and overall reliability. seems like with each new gen the price goes up by 15-20%? not sure how many casual riders like myself will folk out $15k? I do have to admit Pinarello is absolutely a beauty.
Pinarello F8 with an integrated aero handlebar. The appearance and the performance of rim brakes bikes with aero details are the best ones.
Earlier this week: GCN asks has bike marketing gone too far. Today: GCN puts out yet another video promoting crazily expensive bikes
They weren’t promoting they were comparing retro bikes there’s a big difference.
@@__-bk6mm Same effect.
@@__-bk6mm it's all part of the narrative though. Expensive bikes are way better than affordable bikes, or in this case, new expensive bikes are way better than older expensive bikes. It's all pushing people to spend more and more money.
Imagine if Top Gear just endlessly promoted 10 year old cars and resisted any changes in the industry? It's simply not realistic. This is a bike review channel and they make a living covering the latest and greatest. Yes there is a lot of BS in the industry, but don't hate the player (gcn), hate the game. Sincerely, a rim brake rider.
@@sean9820 it creates an incredibly elitist vibe about the sport though, which the likes of TGH have complained about because working class people have no hope
Just yesterday I was watching Si´s review of Wiggins' Black and Gold F8. What a beauty. Still a dream bike
An icon! You should check out our film we made on Pinarello on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/pinarellostory
Cracking trio of bikes! Definitely pick the F8 to cycle for the rest of my life 😍 AND a Pity you forgot the shadow stand for the still clips of them though 🤷🏼♂️ 😂
I actually have that same model and colour of 2012 bike, except it’s the pinarello Paris as my bike now haha. Picked it up off eBay and it still runs nice
F8 - It is a milestone in bike frame evolution...
F8 without disc brakes for me which is largely chosen in the comments by others. Light is right, aero enough, no buried cables nor integrated cockpit if I decide to change stem length by 10mm. In desperation to carve out continuous marketing niches to sell more bikes, the bike industry has shot itself in the foot as many of us with technical sensibility have keep our old carbon bikes which are uber light, compliant, mechanical shifting and 1/3 the cost. Bike maintenance is much easier on the old bikes. All about profit for the bike industry. Btw, the car industry is the same. Hybrid technology which fails like clockwork 'out of warranty', 100 computers 2.5 x's the part complexity...all for profit when consumers are much better off with a single power plant. Simple from a reliability cost aka failure standpoint is always better. Math and physics. In effect, the public is being lied to, innovation which is change without value added for profit. Started in the bike industry 10 years ago with press fit. Most believe carbon was a technical advancement. Cheers Ollie. Thanks for the comparison. Will head to the tech channel and learn there is a 5 watt drag saving of the latest Pinarello at 50 kph which can be offset with a sunglasses change. 😉
[In desperation to carve out continuous marketing niches to sell more bikes] Yawn...do any of you have a single original thought?
Might actually be more than 5 watts, and it will absolutely be more than the 700g extra, but I'm curious to see.. f8 is definitely easier to maintain that's sure.
@@cjohnson3836 I am the creator of technology. I know better than you how the game is played.
@@lukewalker1051 Wow you sound sooo enlightened. Us mere plebs can't comprehend your level of though given that you are the creator of technology. Lmfao
Ah yes, technology just stands still and it's all a marketing conspiracy. Old man yells at a cloud and tells you how it was better back in his day....
If I had to ride a dogma I would take the 2012. Rim brakes, wider handlebar, adjustable stem/bar position, cables I can service. I dont think wider bars were “fashion” in 2012, it was what riders wanted because they were comfortable using them. There were lots of narrow choices 10 years ago but they didnt want them.
You may be right! Riders are always having to compromise with equipment
@@gcn specially now riders compromise even the whole Giro for sponsors imagine if Geraint Thomas was given a rim brake Pinarello F on that stage you don't even need to brake on that stage you just need to climb disc brake just doesn't make sense.
My 1978 Falcon had 38cm bars and I still use that width. I've tried 42cm but they feel too wide.
@@grahamaustin9085 I think 40cm on the tops is the sweet spot with 42cm flare on the drops and the shifters turned in
100% agree. Another advantage from the 2012 is the more functional handlebars. Not just the width but they had more hand positions. Seems all of today’s bikes have those hideous ‘aero’ bars you can’t actually grip.
Nice to see those Speedplay/Wahoo pedals. Don't know that I could go back. I'm still riding a 1st gen Di2, yeah that battery is not pleasant to look at but it works.
I used to race a Pinarello a long time ago, and it was one of the most uncomfortable road bikes to ride back then. These tests are great for the pro riders who don't even buy their bikes, they ride whatever is given to the team, so it really is marketing whichever way you look at it. The typical person that buys the DOGMA F in my LBS is over 50, runs a small business and rides at the weekends to show his bike off. It is back in the workshop every other week for adjustments! I just ride.
I am on the last rim brake version of the Bianchi Oltre right now. I'd love the current Dogma F as my next bike, but I'm not really about the price tag. I'll get one in about 6 years once my Oltre is 8 years old, and then I won't feel guilty about what I paid.
awesome video
really nice to see gcn has finally started using electric bikes to film, so much more quiet 😁😁
Are you being sarcastic? Haha I could hear the annoying humming motor compared to previously I didn’t notice anything!
@@inxlee Have a listen to some of their older videos, the motorcycle they used to use was really loud if they were filming from closer up.
My Dogma F10 has a threaded BB, the speed sniffer before it was cool, and it is an aero-lightweight-one-bike-to-rule-them-all-bike before it was cool too. :)
I have an F10, which is my favorite race bike of all time. And I totally agree about the speed sniffer, look identical. The F10 was ahead of it's time, one of the first to have the widely spaced(bowed) fork, recessed downtube to pull the bottle closer to frame, aero tab trailing edge off of the seatpost, and the flaps on the front drop outs. Most modern aero bikes are adapting these components.
Some rim brake bikes just look absolutely beautiful.
You can't beat that classic look 😎
Bikes today have gotten too expensive. And just about all bikes look the same.
@@Blah-blah-surebikes have largely gone up less than inflation. But unlike our bananas and potatoes, bikes are significantly better than they were 10yrs ago. My 2006 Seven was $12000. My new Domane is better in every way outside of impact resistance and it cost me $5200. That Seven would be $14000 today. Loved that bike and I put over 200k miles on it. But it's on lifetime trainer duty now.
@@veganpotterthevegan I partly agree. As I have a 2010 Cannondale CAAD 10. And it works like a champ. With minimal repairs
@Blah-blah-sure I've had everything from a CAAD 6 to a CAAD 12. I've had a lot of bikes to compare them to and they're really only great for what they are as aluminum bikes. Solid for crits and road riding IF you have smooth roads.
F8 all day, beautiful bike, thumbs up for rim brakes too. 👌🏽
Where's durianrider, he'll set you straight about this.....
Now....Make a video "How much easier to service have pro bikes got in 10 years" to tech channel.
I've owned the Pinarello F8 and the K8s and loved them both. The speed, control and road feel is unmatched. I prefer the K8s because of the effective rear suspension it incorporates. No real weight penalty and my lower back over long rides really appreciates the smoother ride I experience. Both of these bikes climb so well and that's the biggest plus for me as a natural climber. By the way, I do run 700x28 tubeless which is so much better than the tubulars and clinchers I used to ride.... Smoother and faster!
I have a Dogma F8 to this day. Works like a charm!
Nice!
Have a Dogma K8 not F and I just love it. It is my go to for any ride over 40 miles IMO
F8/F10 the way to go. It is insane that now pro’s bikes have all the add weight that we would avoid back in the days.
Do you think the aero advantage is enough to warrant the extra weight?
There are aero advantages but the gains that you may draw from that will depend on one big variable, the cyclist. Lets talk SL7, it will never be the same having a fit Lulu on a SL7 frame compared to a big size Neils Politt. Or think of the Giant TCR, it is a cable exposed, the course of aero, and still edge others aero frame in the line. There are some fit guys, well fitted on their bikes who will benefit, others not.
Just on my personal taste and preference, I'd go with the F. I am no racer but love doing long rides and I think that's a beautiful bike to take pictures of in the countryside.
That f8 is by far the best and nicest looking bike in this video
F8 for me every weight advantage is a bonus!
This is my new favorite KZhead channel.
I would probably say the F8. I love rim brakes myself, not a huge fan of disc. Equally though, in terms of aesthetics, I would probably choose the Dogma 2. I've had a few Dogma's over the years and I love the colour scheme.
Every person's opinion on "better" is different. Today's bikes are certainly different from those in the pro tour 10-15 years ago, but I don't consider them better. They're heavier, more complex, harder to keep working properly, and more fragile. And to boot, they're a lot more expensive. Aside from being more "aero" (I don't care for that term), it's frankly hard to see how they're better.
Which would be your favourite bike back from a decade ago? Would it be the Pinarello?
@@gcn Nothing against Pinarello, but if I were "shopping" for a bike from 10--15 years ago, I'd look for a SuperSix Evo.
I agree
I just recently upgraded from my 2013 Orbea Orca with Ultegra to a 2023 Orca with Di2 and disc brakes. I’ve been riding since 1986 so I’ve seen every major upgrade of the last 40 years including clipless pedals, STI shifting, Carbon Wheels etcetera. If anyone is going to be romantic about the old technology it’s me but I have to say the new bikes imo are better. My new Orca carries momentum so much better than my 2013 despite being heavier and disc brakes (the caveat here is if your running carbon rims) are a God send, they’re basically a fix to a problem I didn’t know I had which is that carbon brake pads on calipers are horrible. Yes they’re more expensive and much harder to work on (it’s really the brakes here because Di2 can be tuned in the app) but let’s be honest, new cars are more complicated and expensive but they’re more reliable, comfortable and provide an overall better day to day driving experience.
More expensive OK More complicated OK You will probably not be able to fix it yourself or maintain it OK But More reliable More comfortable Better everyday drive experience You are basically saying, I'd rather pay more of the fruits of my labor over and over in order to be more comfy. More power to you. That's what people don't understand when it comes to bikes or classic cars. The compromise is absolutely individual, so there is no right or wrong, however don't be surprised if rude Australian cyclists talk poorly of your choices on you tube 😅
I would Choose the F-8. Another great Video. Thank you.
The Dogma 2 is super nice, so I pick that bike 😊👍🏻👍🏻
Where is Duran Rider when you need him! If you know you know
Edgy
@@neoneherefrom5836 🤖
As a Pinarello fan, I really enjoyed this. Thanks Dan and GCN.
Then you'll love the film we made on Pinarello! Check it out on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/pinarellostory
You mean Oli?
@@gcn Seen & enjoyed it.
@@lemonshire1 Dan who provided the Pinarello bikes.
@@ethangodridge6833 Oh, my bad
I bought an F8 in 2015 and still ride it. Timeless bike….still love it. Rim breaks? Yea, still also look best!!
2012 is six years newer than, what I call, my "fast bike". Watching this makes me realise just how much I need a new ride!
Not me. I’m still setting PRs on a 2011 Fuji Cross 3.0. Admittedly, I changed a few of the components, but the drive train is Sora and Deore. And it works as slick as I could hope. Newer doesn’t mean better or faster, if you keep your stuff in tune.
I went from a 2012 FP due to and Dogma F, bit more of a jump than the Dogma 2 to the Dogma F is. That said the FP Due is upgraded with a set 50mm tubeless wheels and a aero cockpit
2012 Pinarello Dogma 2 😎🤙
As a tour team mechanic for a long time, I won’t mention the name, from Armstrong to today, most riders use 23mm tyres with latex tubes, forced onto discs, no one is happy, how the hell is a 28mm Tyres as fast as a 23mm, basic stuff, people please don’t believe the bull being marketed, this will upset people but hey it’s fact sorry. Ride safe, great upload ol…..
But if marketing departments say it , and GCN agree, then it has to be true -right??? 😀😀
Would take F8 if i could over any modern bike just looks amazing,very light,just great racing bike all around
Just sold Luke Rowe´s Pinarello Graal TT bike from 2012
Great that you're doing a bit about the old pinarello bikes,pinarello think two can take a 25 tire comfortably, but you kept insisting on it can only take up to 23, also the best of those bikes is definitely the F10, And then with the upgrade to the f12 with the double mount break's, but I think the F10 is probably better just for pure riding. experience.
Very nice video…i also ride a size 56 frame😂
Dogma 2! What a Beauty!!
That 2012 bike is definitely the one I would want the most for myself.
Love you 2 😂
Welp the bike that got me into cycling is a 08 schwinn peloton pro. It has been the best bike that I have ever owned. Upgrading from a full alu hybrid (which I have ridden for 4 years) to a full carbon road bike is something that is truly amazing and sadly can only be experienced once in life.
I went from alu fixie to a Ridley helium 2012 isp. I could not believe the differnece….looking at getting a more modern team issue bike….shame about the €£€£€£
Only difference in the frames is that now they added the tt tail extension to guide wind better and filled in more of the frame than they did in the past.
great review but that art dogma 2 have space for 25c with no worries 🚴
Id probably want to go F8, but with a bit of suspension on the back, more flexible chain stays, and direct mount rear brakes...
I still have my DogmaThink2 it’s just as good as the F. And the best part is … it’s rim brakes . So beautiful
Nice! Have you uploaded any photos of your steed onto the GCN app??
i really like riding size 26 tires
The one with rim brakes. Much better 😊
I've definitely fit 25s on that frame without issue for customers. Even some 28s fit
Good gcn have started to watch durianrider videos and realised how good rim brake bikes are instead of being caught up in marketing crap of overpriced disc brake bikes....
How wide are the handlebars?
I have an F8 which is awesome
Nice
Nice vid but Ollie what are you doing with that gearing at 14:10 mate??
Really enjoyed the Team Sky era.
It was good wasn't it! Who was your favourite rider from that time?
@@gcn Mr Controversial himself Wiggo.
Froome.
Something purer and more elegant about the older bikes.
I’ve got F10 on rim.. love it
Nice!
The UCI never cease to amaze. I wouldn't be surprised if they started making the cycle teams bolt squares of carbon sheeting to the head tubes because "the drag isn't enough". You know it's in the post!
Bike designs contribute a neglible amount to aero efficiency, the rider position is far more significant. People just WISH cycling was pay to win.
@truantray Rider position, bike fitment, and I would argue wheels as well. Edit: not that you need 4k usd wheels, but an upgrade over the stock wheels bikes come with, especially budget bikes, makes a huge difference.
Olly calls himself a scientist but compares apples (weight of F8 without pedals) with oranges (Dogma F with pedals). Next time, add bottles as well :)
Silver dura ace is *chef's kiss*
The smoothest ride is because the 1/3 dropped stays add 3mm of suspension travel and of course the higher profile tyres give a mm or two also. The integration cockpit will also give 0.5-1mm over a two piece MTB bars and stem. None of the 3 - A 2006 Prince the original full carbon wavy fork and wavy stay professional bike for me a la Alessandro's team bike that year.
I own the same frame (other colorway) as the 2012 model with full dura ace (Mechanical) gears and everything. The feel and aesthetic of the frame is incredible A bike shop owner offered me 200 pounds (in local currency) for the bikes when I asked for the price if I changed to Carbon wheels due to the price. Have bikes really gotten that much better in 10 years? He said it was due to brakes and electronic gearing. Anyway to answer the question: I like the aesthetic of the older versions much more, but I get why the industry is going in a more aerodynamic way. I would choose the 2012 version, but with updated wheels and gearing
So, um, no tech video? Still can't find it.
I would take whichever Dogma I could get!
I have a 10 year old di2 Madone that I put some good wheels on and some better brakes. I opted for that rather than a newer heavier bike and let me tell you even replacing drivetrain components was 15% of a new bike in cost, rides like a champ and is lighter than most new bikes now
Sounds like a pretty great bike still!
@@gcn Indeed was busy putting 100km on it this morning or 70 miles for us weird English system users 😆 Defiantly more harsh than a new bike but feels like it was made to go fast
Ollie, I just want to give you a friendly reminder that you just did a video - calling Bradley Wiggins’ bike “vintage”. As a 90’s kid that hurts my soul.
Making everyone feel old 😉
The first generation Di2 had one great advantage: Battery swapping. The battery could and was swapped on many a long ride!
Cables can get swapped once a season.
@truantray more often if you rude more. However, I've replaced more than my fair share of cables including those that snapped or just plain pulled out of the barrels molded around them at the shifter/brake end.
The geometry of bikes tends to change over the years, which might make one bike faster than another. My first road bike is a lot slower than my second one. The choice of my second bike was based on an independent bikefit.
You weighed the F8 without pedals. With pedals wouldn’t be more like 7.2 kg?
I can see the advantage of disc brakes and running 28mm tyres but given the price of second hand rim brake high performance bikes I think it's an easy decision for the recreational and sometime gran fondo rider. The f8 would be the best option for most riders I would think given it's a great bike and the extra cost of going to disc brakes is probably not worth for most riders. I always think about upgrading to disc brakes, especially over winter, but for the price point having a lighter rim brake bike for hill climbing is a much better option.
had all these bikes with DA. And they kept improving... I passed on the latest electronic only F model.
Dogma 2. . I am not the youngest or lightest rider, so I am always happier with something I can on myself without having to take a masters degree.
Seriously, where's the wind tunnel tech video as referenced?
I wonder why there was no speed comparison, is it because the F, is slower than the F8?
Where is the video on the GCN tech?
You said that the 2012 bike had "super skinny" tires. Do you mean Comp 22's? That was the standard. Super skinny tires are Comp 19's. 42cm bars might slow you down at 55kph, but how many watts do you lose at 30kph? 3W?
Still waiting for wind tunnel video. Did it get rejected by Pina?