The Historical SHIELDS You Should Know About!
2024 ж. 29 Сәу.
15 317 Рет қаралды
Looking at some original Indian shields from the 19th century. Check out Runjeet Singh's website here: www.runjeetsingh.com/
▼3 extra EXCLUSIVE videos each month on PATREON, which make this channel possible:
/ scholagladiatoria
▼Facebook & Twitter updates, info, memes and fun:
/ historicalfencing
/ scholagladiato1
▼Schola Gladiatoria HEMA - sword fighting classes in the UK:
www.swordfightinglondon.com
▼Matt Easton's website & Pinterest:
www.matt-easton.co.uk/
www.pinterest.co.uk/matt_east...
▼Easton Antique Arms - antique swords for sale:
www.antique-swords.co.uk/
#history #indian #shield
This time next year: England bans private ownership of shields.
for not being inclusive enough
Sorry Captain America but unfortunately you can't own a shield while you live in the U.K.
People then have to resort to eating raw food because pans are considered shields under the new law
Just like 18th century
After the recent explosion in vicious shieldings, action must be taken
He would be a great guest to have on.
Great video. I hope you can get Runjeet on. Indian arms & armour are fascinating, especially when you compare with British/East India Company arms & armour.
These are fantastic shields, and the hide can be a surprisingly effective defence. I have a rhino hide example which is translucent and about 5mm thick (at the edges at least) yet has successfully stopped a bullet from the Great Uprising in 1857-the site of the bullet is cracked right through to the back but the bullet itself barely penetrated the shield and the area of damage doesn't extend much past the point of impact. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of details about the circumstances, the gun is described as a "matchlock", suggesting probably a torador (which come in a range of calibres and could have very variable powder charges) but otherwise I don't know very much about the exact distances, angles etc. at which the shield would have taken the bullet.
Matchlocks in 1857 (even in use by Native troops, who always got second-tier weapons)? I'm dubious.
@@RonJohn63 Matchlock toradars (a style of native Indian weapon, not British issued) remained a popular choice in India until the mid 19th century as a civilian weapon or used by some Princely states. The Royal armouries have a number of matchlock toradar collected during the 1850s and Museums Victoria have no fewer than 17 matchlock toradar which were seized from rebels by British troops during the British reconquest of India and subsequently donated to a museum in Victoria (there were actually more than 17 matchlocks recovered and donated but the original 287 weapons seized were a mix of matchlocks, flintlock muskets and rifles, and pistols and I can't find clear information about what the original number of matchlocks were, only that after decades of trimming down the collection 17 matchlock toradar remain). While of course many rebels did use their British issued p42 percussion lock muskets there are plenty of historical accounts confirming that others used civilian weapons like jezails (usually flintlock by this time though some matchlock jezails still persisted) and toradars (virtually always matchlock), including both civilians-who of course never had British issued muskets-but also sepoys who chose to switch from their British issued muskets to Native weapons: either symbolically to cast off their submission to the British and reassert their Indianness, from a reluctance to fire on British soldiers with British issued arms or simply practical concerns over a lack of access to enough ammunition and percussion caps to operate a p42 long term. The entire kit of the rebels was a mishmash of British issued and native Indian elements according to the personal preferences and circumstances of the individual and that included a significant number of the matchlock toradar which remained a common Indian weapon up until that point (though they would mostly lose relevance shortly afterward).
@@Temujin1206 "symbolically to cast off their submission to the British and reassert their Indianness". No wonder the rebels lost.
@@RonJohn63 if you spend a large portion of time being persecuted by a group of people using a specific weapon you may come to have some mixed feelings about using it yourself.
@@Temujin1206you have an impressive amount of knowledge, why aren't you doing videos on topics like this?
Are Dhal's stored in a Dhalhousie? - Yeah I know where the door is
That craftsmanship is amazing. I'd love to learn more about the Indian madu and how it was used.
Aw, its nice to see guys playing with their dhals.
8:16 : "The backside interests me […]" ‼️ He really did say that, didn’t he… 🤔
Hi, good video, a few points though. Dhal in my opinion did not come from Persia, at least not from the Islamicate Perisa, as while both Sipir and Dhal are buckler style shields, they probably developed independently. The Pre-Islamic Indian sculptures often show round shield. I would recommend you to type and search 'Gupta horseman with sword and shield 4th to 6th CE', it probably has the earliest depiction of a fully developed dhal shield. Even in south India the soldiers, mostly light infantry, are depicted with round shields, the Kedareshvara temple (12th century) being an example. Other examples, especially the surviving hero stones and memorials from south India in fact show that even bare chested infantrymen of the south were using round buckler style shield, probably to keep their mobility. Also, one has to understand the Persian, Central Asian and Indian frontiers even before the coming of Islam into the subcontinent were extremely porous, we see Indian armours being being inspired from Central Asia right from the Gupta period as seen from the images on the imperial coins from 4th to 6th century CE. The main problem with Indian arms and armor is that barely anything before the 17th century survives, the oldest sword in India is probably the Khanda broadsword of Alauddin Khilji from as late as the 14th century, despite the Khanda being depicted in sculpture and mentioned in texts right from the 6th centiry CE.....
Beautiful shields! And I'm guessing you are correct on the one being constructed from Elephant hide, the texture is spot on for it to be Elephant as well as it's thickness. Elephant skin has a unique texture to it and it's very thick.
Could it possibly be alligator or crocodile?
No looks diffrent@@williamromine5715
Great video Matt, would love to see Runjeet Singh on the channel.
I once saw one of these in a store in Eastern Europe - with the rough nodules characteristic of elephant hide. I did not buy it, though it was affordable, mostly because I am absolutely sure CITES would have been an absolute nightmare to deal with despite it being pre convention
I believe your slightly reddish shield from 5 minutes onwards is rhino, rather than elephant, based on the surface features
I always love the decor on indian and persian arms and armour, even less decorated things like a straight ahead Firangi tends to look really awesome imo
I would love to hear about the use of these more. I remember seeibg a video that I cant find anymore with a sikh fellow talking about sikh fighting and how those strap-grips are to facilitate holding a dagger at the same time as you are holding the shield, kind of like a scottish targe but center gripped. I would really love an indepth vid about the subject
Persian Sipar, probably the original version of the Dhal, are often decorated like the last pair, and truly gorgeous. A quick Google search will reveal many examples! Being more familiar with the Sipar, most of which are metal, I was actually surprised to learn that most Dhal were hide.
I am really curious about the manner in which the leather is prepared and hardened. The translucent one makes me think at least that one is rawhide, though it must be sealed somehow. And the lack of tooling makes me wonder if boiling was used. Are they still made today using historic methods?
you can boil in oil or soak in urea. making leather from hide is a rather smelly process at all levels
Tod Cutler looked into the process of making functional material from hide awhile ago. He pretty much debunked the idea of "boiling" half tanned leather as it made it brittle and deform, he ended up doing what we in the modern day do to make carbon fibre as the idea's the same and there's historical evident for it, he used historical materials to create a resin and filled the air pockets in the hide to make the hard shell some of the sources call cuirbioulli and even tested various thicknesses against the kinds of arrows it would've faced at the time 🙂
@@rhetorical1488That's only the tanning method, you can't harden a hide beyond waterproof clothing that way it just gets brittle and deforms
Tod is wonderful, but he got it totally wrong. You do not boil the leather in oil or anything of the sort. You soak it in cold water for a few hours or overnight until it is completely waterlogged. Then you can stretch and mold it to shape, tacking it down to wooden forms, or packing with sand for vessels. You then let it dry most of the way, finally putting in a low oven or hot box, rather like beef jerky. You get all or at least most of the moisture out. At this point it is rather brittle. But, it is porous and absorbent. So you either soak them in hot, but not boiling resin, or paint on layers. Soaking works the best. Different cultures use different resins. I’m not sure what the Indian cultures used, but in Europe it was usually a mixture of pine resin and harder waxes. I’ve made a number of blackjacks, and water bottles this way and they are nearly unbreakable. You don’t want to use bees wax as it has too low a melting point. This works with rawhide as well, because the resin makes it waterproof.
@@valandil7454 Yeah, I watched those videos. And I have immense respect for Todd. However, i completely disagree that boiling leather is off the table. I have experimented with boiling leather myself and got pretty darned great results. The key is it to make sure that leather is tacked down to a last/form (and I mean really tacked down and tightly) and only boil for a few minutes, depending on thickness. And then let it dry completely on the last/form. Thinner leathers might not be good for boiling (I haven't tested), but the cheap bad quality 12 oz veg tanned i used got kydex hard, wasn't too brittle (more brittle than plastic, though) and even became water resistant. Couldn't hold tooling at all. That said, the piece i tested with was not a complete piece of armor, just a part of a vambrace. Shields, for all i know, might not have ever been made of boiled leather. But I want to try it.
Sick shields! Indian weaponry is fascinating, I would love to see and hear more about it. Please do bring in the expert too, that would be awesome Another thing that would be cool to address in more general terms is the prevalence of hide and leathers in historical shield making around the world while it is (somewhat reductivly) generally considered a fantastical trope to make hide or leather armours. Aka, if a shield, why not a breast plate?
Zooarchaeology by mass spectrometry (ZooMS) is a non-invasive and affordable way to determine what type of animal they were made of
Great video. More interesting weapons and armor reviews/discussions!
Title cracked me up. Now I want a part two about the Indian "talking it out and bonding over a pint" shields. xD
More Indian content! 😊
itd be interesting to study if the industry of tourist dahls had an effect on local ecology and fauna akin to the effects of the beaver trade in north america
Great video, please do more on indian weaponry! I'd love to know more about weapons from areas other than Western Europe!! ❤
Absolutely amazing! I'd love to see you explore more middle Eastern / Indian arms and armor!
I’d be interested in hearing about how the straps work in comparison to a solid grip. I’d imagine - they are a bit wobbly and impeded blocking and redirecting sword strikes a medium large amount. I’d also imagine the strapped version causes a lot more hand fatigue in use. But i’d like to hear from someone who has both types and spars with them.
Looking forward to the follow up video where you talk in depth about these. shields
1 cm thick skin sounds like elephant. In Germany we call them also Dickhäuter, which literally means Thickskinner (i.e. thick skinned ones). The English word for Dickhäuter is pachyderm, but that's the technical term, which we also have in Germany, which also means thick skin.
Thanks for the video 👍🏻
Well that was a treat thanks Matt!
Interesting and very enjoyable viewing
Great video. Could you make video about sword design for half-swording? I’m really interested in this but can’t find much information.
Is that "dhal" as in lentil because of the shape?
Do you have any information on object 1590 in the Wallace collection? Strange 5 bladed item, referred to as a "shield" on their website but no further information about it? And they didn't have any of the Asian Arms Catalogues when I was there. It was next to shields similar to this one in the cabinet.
Great video....I was wondering if you could do a video on Indian weapons and armor before the muslim rule in India, i.e. about 1000 AD and earlier, and if you knew any explanation for why those styles completely replaced the local ones.
I love the translucent sheild.
The designs on that last small one reminded me of those fancy wheel lock pistols.
I think this is the fastest I've ever been to a Matt Easton video :D
Fun fact: Nazi henchman Richard Heydrich was not killed by the grenade thrown by his assassins, but by infection incurred from the mouldy horse hair stuffing from his car's door.
Robert Evans covered this!
I was just wondering how these old leather items would react to treatment by Limmer Boot Grease? As in the past I had good success in getting 80+ years old leather items to work like in their hayday after giving them some love via this grease ...
What is the translucent shield made of?
Any thoughts on Madu shields?
Is it called dal because it looks like a lentil?
Nice video, interesting as usual :) Wouldn't this "translucent" shield be simply made of raw hide instead of leather? I'm sure you have some lying around :p
Would ancient/medieval Indian spearmen also use dhal, or would these use something more similar to tower shields or the Achaemenid spara?
dunno about medieval, but like he alludes to in the video, pre-13th century shields were different. all the ancient (pre-6th C) examples in art seem to be longer
Is there any interest in an 1896 cavalry sword inspired, Easton designed military sword with modernized components and steel?
For HEMA?? Yes. 100% yes.
How does hide compare to wood as a material for shields?
I'm pretty sure the mystery leather was elephant. I've seen old things made of elephant hide, and they are thick and have that wrinkly look From what I have been told, but I can't verify, the translucent leather is rhinoceros
How do hide shields compare to steel bucklers
A cap and ball 44 Colt should penetrate these shields?
Thank you for another great discussion.
Give it to Todd to see if arrows go through. (Please don't; he'd absolutely destroy them.)
can bucklers be casted from iron bronze or brass instead of forged?
Old bronze shields and armour in Europe where "hammered" out not cast. Casting would be to thick I think. Bronze swords where cast before hammered.
12:56 Maybe they wore it on the elbow.
Please explain madhu Tamil Nadu weapon
Similar to how the Scottish Highlanders fought with broadsword, dirk and targe?
Really attend the 6:00 I have to refer to the Mongols and their recurve bows and the French and English with their longer heavier draw bows vs. the round and heavier shield shaped shields during the Reconquista and The Crusades for offensive weapons.
Wonderful that the shields made for British tourists ended up in the UK🤣
Wait a minute... They started a whole war in 1857 over the mere RUMOR that the new rifle cartridges might've had some beef grease on them (or pork, depending upon which rumor you were following). But an ENTIRE SHIELD covered in cow leather is just fine??? What am I missing? I'm willing to admit that I'm possibly missing something, but someone please tell me what it is!😃😂
None of these are covered in or made of cow leather. My understanding is that buffalo hide was sometimes used, but that's not a cow.
Hey Matt. I don't know if you've heard the news, but apparently there was a sword attack in the UK yesterday. Do you believe this would cause even tougher laws on swords in this country?
LOL! He lives in a garage (and an office), not under a freaking rock! Why do you think he's removed his previous video? Apparently the subject of swords has become taboo on this channel, all of a sudden.
@@frontenac5083 Ah I see. Is that why his next video is about shields rather than swords?
I believe dhal also means lentil. Same shape.
Yep, not just the round shape but also that convex dome. Even in English the technical term for something convex on both sides is "lenticular", from the Late Latin for "lentil-shaped" (also where we get the word lens). Given how prominent lentils are in various Indian cuisines it's not too surprising people made the comparision and named the one for the other.
😄 "Dal" is the Indian word for lentils and other beans, those are "Dhal" no relation 🙂
दाल dāl means lentil, probably from the Sanskrit root dal meaning 'to split'. It can be spelt many ways in English including dal, daal and, indeed, dhal, but the point of the h in the spelling dhal is to represent the fact that the d here in दाल dāl is dental, meaning you have to say it with the tip of your tongue against your teeth, so that it sounds a bit like the 'th' in 'this'. ढाल ḍhāl means shield from Sanskrit ḍhāla 'shield'. Here the dh in the standard spelling dhal represents ḍh a completely different sound. The d is not said on the teeth, but up in the roof of the mouth, sometimes with the tip of the tongue curled back (hence the dot below the d in the formal transliteration). The h here isn't largely decorative like it is in dhal = lentils either. The ḍh sound is aspirated (technically breathy voiced, but who's counting?) meaning it's said with a puff of air afterwards, like the p in English pot (as opposed to the p in stop). The h represents this puff of air and distinguishes ḍh from simple ḍ and from the d in dāl = lentil. I don't think the words are at all related, but you are right dāl (sometimes spelt dhal) does mean lentil
LUAu101 thank you for the excellent explanation. Could be difficult due to my lack of teeth though!
@@bobrobinson1576 Ah well that will make it a challenge to master the dental consonants yes!
Have tortoise shells ever been used as shields?
did you remove your sword video?
Yep! Presumably because of what happened this morning, but I don't think it was necessary to remove the whole video! Especially because many of us had commented on it.
No, I unlisted it for a few hours because the algorithm thought it was a video about the horrific murder. I needed some time to change the thumbnail and title, to make it more clear what the content was about. My thoughts are however also with the victims of this horrible incident.
Sorry Matt, but your opening line, "Let's explore the Indian shield!", inspired the question: is that kinda like a French safe?
Getting ahead of the curve on the upcoming sword ban.
I think talking about shields is very appropriate given that there was a sword attack yesterday.
Sadly my subscriptions had this video next to a murder with what appeared to be a katana in london. Ban is looking more likely now 😔
Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to make the handles of flails very long (like nearly polearm lenght) to keep the spiky ballds far away from the weilder?
Indeed it would. In fact, many military flails were actually polearms.
Yes, war flail is that kind of length. Please note that handle is 'long enough' otherwise the inertia will reduce the weapon effectiveness.
Komodo dragons skin 😂
🗿👍
I thought a dhal was lentil curry
Great stuff!
I see no valid defence, especially with one of the small steel made shields, against an urumi (Indian whip sword). If the steel ones are not ornamental or ceremonial, then maybe for duels?
Good morning sirs
You can't just stop defending your hobby (passion) and your business simply because a nutcase went on a rampage with a sword. Especially because you posted your video first. Sure, the timing now looked awkward but by the killer's fault only, not because of you. And when will a good time be to talk about the matter, then? When someone doesn't get stabbed? People being stabbed and killed is pretty much a daily occurrence in London. There's no reason responsible sword owners, lovers and users should feel ashamed because some criminal committed a crime. On the contrary: this is the occasion to tell the public, politicians, etc. that the vast majority of weapon collectors is nothing like this guy. The rest of us do not deserve to be punished because of the actions of a few criminals.
show some respect. At the end of the day its in his interest for the ban to not come through, he sells swords and has a youtube chanel about them. However you cant really say that to the families of the kids murdered by them.
I could. They were killed by a murderer, not by an object. People today can’t understand that for some reason and it’s good to remind them. Last I checked murder was already illegal so what good is another law?
Exactly!
I unlisted the video for a few hours for a bunch of reasons, including to change the title and thumbnail (I was away from home). It is public again now.
I wish people would be a little more patient and understanding with youtubers. There are often a myriad of reasons why we do certain things, with many factors involved that viewers don't know about. Of course, my condolences go out to the victims of this horrific crime.
I always thought these were metal.
Indian Goatness🗿💪🔥💯
I remember watching a video from Todd, where he tested harden leather shields and they didn't really do well, so I wander how durable these shields are.
iirc traditional dhal used rhino leather.
Not quite sure his recipe was right
See my other reply. No offense to Todd, but he did it wrong.
First
Did they really use elephant skin for shields in India? Oh wait, silly me confused elephants with cows.
That translucent one: is it made from human skin?
No! Human skin is way too thin. This must be some sort of rawhide, but I don't know what animals it is from.
are you allowed to have that????? seems pretty dangerous....might protect yourself to well with it.
*WTF is yesterday's video?*
Because Matt is respectful
It is now public again. I needed some time to make some changes to it, including the title and thumbnail, because many people were wrongly assuming it was a video about the horrific murder, and the algorithm was treating it as such. Please be patient and understanding - these are complicated times and running a youtube channel (especially when you are away teaching a fencing class) is also complicated.
ITS TURKO MONGOL SHIELD NOT EVEN INDIANS😂
Apparently the subject of swords has become taboo on this channel, all of a sudden.
Don't talk too much anymore about equipment that should be only used by police, civilian shields are next to be banned
Sick shields! Indian weaponry is fascinating, I would love to see and hear more about it. Please do bring in the expert too, that would be awesome Another thing that would be cool to address in more general terms is the prevalence of hide and leathers in historical shield making around the world while it is (somewhat reductivly) generally considered a fantastical trope to make hide or leather armours. Aka, if a shield, why not a breast plate?
The Japanese made quite a lot of armour out of hide. They lacquered it, and lacquer is an excellent resin to fill the pores with. It’s certainly not as tough as iron and steel, but it does provide decent protection, and was much cheaper than steel. But lighter too.