Can a 12V Car Inverter Power a Welder?
How much power do you really need to stick weld? Let's find out...
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USD $70 TL-1355 LT geni.us/135Astick
USD $100 TL-1355 LT + TIG geni.us/135AwithTIG
USD $200 TIG Welder geni.us/200TP
USD $70 Pedal geni.us/TLFP5P
2300w Pure Sine Wave Generator geni.us/2300wGenerator
5500w Pure Sine Wave Generator (not tested) geni.us/5500wSinewave
1800w Milwaukee M18 Carry-ON geni.us/mm18carryon
M18 HD12.0 Battery geni.us/JzUqN8
1500w Pure Sine Wave Inverter 1 geni.us/1500w12v
1500w Pure Sine Wave Inverter 2 geni.us/1500wMWXNE
4000w Pure Sine Wave Inverter 3 geni.us/4000wVOLFVERT
0:00 What generator will run the cheapest welder on Amazon?
1:06 Tooliom TL-1355 LT
2:44 Gearwrench Toolbox Giveaway
3:00 5500w Kodiak Generator
5:33 2300w Generator
8:15 Milwaukee M18 Carry-ON
12:44 Tooliom TL-200TP
16:05 1500w 12v Power Inverters
19:30 4000w 12v Power Inverter
26:14 End results
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*Here's everything we tested (and some things we didn't):* USD $70 TL-1355 LT geni.us/135Astick USD $100 TL-1355 LT + TIG geni.us/135AwithTIG USD $200 TIG Welder geni.us/200TP USD $70 Pedal geni.us/TLFP5P 2300w Generator geni.us/2300wGenerator 5500w Pure Sine Wave Generator (not tested) geni.us/5500wSinewave 1800w Milwaukee M18 Carry-ON geni.us/mm18carryon M18 HD12.0 Battery geni.us/JzUqN8 1500w Inverter 1 geni.us/1500w12v 1500w Inverter 2 geni.us/1500wMWXNE 4000w Inverter 3 geni.us/4000wVOLFVERT
You should check out some of the multi-process welders. Some can do ARC, TIG, Plasma cutting, and MIG welding. Make sure to get the 200A(ARC)/50A(Plasma/TIG)
Premier Power Welder is what you need, I have one. Works very nicely. Wished I would have known that you can actually build one yourself. Check out Merlin’s Old School Garage, not only does he show you how to build it, but he’s also has a T-shirt with the schematic on how.. Good luck with the Africa tour!!!!!!!
For your overlander, I have three words for you "Premier Power Welder", accept no substitutes. Cheers from Tokyo!
Someone else mentioned it, but more visibility the better. There is the mobile premier power welder. I know several off-road recovery channels use those and seem to like them. Trail Mater, Matt's Off-Road Recovery, and Fab Rats.
For trail welding this was first thing that came to my mind. Initially learned about these from bleepin jeep, seems like a really solid option vs carrying a welder and a big azz genset.
I came here to say the same thing about the power welders. Very convenient little welders!
I was waiting for the 3 12v batteries in series, probably the most sensible thing to have when overlanding
cant bring that on the plane, why 36v?
@@mannyrides3946 You hook up 3 batteries in series straight to the torch and ground clamp, and use that instead of a welder, its unregulated and unwieldy but gets the job done in a pinch
So you take DC from a battery, convert it to a Sine wave at 120v, put it into an inverting welder that turns it back into DC then turns it into high frequency AC, then it (probably) converts back to DC (or a different AC frequency) to weld with. I think if portable power is the goal, you could eliminate a few steps in there. Try hooking your welding rod to a few batteries in series.
This was my thoughts exactly. Just use 2+ batteries straight to the leads.
if the market was large enough for non-commercial "peanut" sized welders, they'd make them. direct battery to welder output. problem is most tools are lower voltage batteries( to not zap anyone) let alone fire risk. so it's still a no go in any real world daily usage welding( always will be) unless magical battery/inverter tech comes out that multiplies capacity by ten fold(lol, yeah never), it all has losses! facts of life are larger the scale, larger the losses. yes, some loss calculations can change over time(via tom-foolery technology), but it ends up following closely old school technology and "laws" (lulz)
there is a few battery welders esab just released one that uses dewalt 60v batts, froinius has one, i think miller did
Battery direct welders do actually exist
@@throttlebottle5906 inverter technology could be scaled back to start with low voltage DC. Someone needs to demonstrate that a market exists and they will churn them out of China.
I wish you had also included the back country method, which involves linking 2 car batteries and using a jumper cables as your ground and live (holding your weld rod). When you’re done put them back in your vehicle to trickle charge and away you go.
'linking' how? Parallel for more amps or in series for higher voltage? The voltage drop that happens with lead acid (starting your car will drop the voltage down below 11 volts on lead acid, and inverters usually cut off around 11.5 or higher) is why the inverter kept shutting off.
@@Canthus13 In series.
@@MrZimmaframe good to know. I'd never want to use that, but in a pinch it could be a lifesaver.
Merlin's old school garage made a video on how to turn an alternator into a welder.
I use a 3kw LOW Frequency inverter with 280ah lithium batteries. I've had no problems with my yeswelder stick machine. Low frequency inverters are far superior for heavy inrush current equipment like compressors and welders.
Matts of Road Recovery uses a 12 volt stick welder on his recovery Heavy Wrecker truck. His buddy at Fab Rats has one too. Wish I recall what it was. They have done many (not every video ) trail welding repairs we seen on thier video's.
Karnage welder. They are 24v, two 12v batts inside
If you want to weld in remote locations, maybe what Trail Mater is using would work. He welds on the trail all the time. Keep up the excellent work!
Don't forget, the grid power in Africa will be 230VAC 50Hz, not 120VAC 60Hz. So some of the stuff you bring may not even work plugged in. Most electronics are 120-240VAC 50 / 60Hz, but bigger stuff, heater or motors are not.
Be sweet if he's running an inverter in the Landy
@@jonathanwright5550 No doubt, but don't think whatever doesn't run off inverter or generator you can just plug in somewhere. Like compressor, heaters whatever else is high current. Or if inverter / generator takes a shit.
@@inothome 240 down to 110 converters are available. Not sure if they fix the hz tho
@@jonathanwright5550 There are voltage transformers and price varies on how many Watts you need. But yeah, they don't fix frequency though, if the device is frequency dependent. Heaters don't care and motors may run slightly slower, but some things do require the right frequency or they won't run. Was more of a heads up if bringing all 120V stuff and thinking it can just be plugged in when grid power is available or if inverter or gen failed.
He's going over landing in Africa, why would he go over landing in a place with grid power
Having watched Matt's Offroad Recovery and Trail Mater: for the overlander you might look into the Premier Power welder. It can be permanently installed in the vehicle and takes little of the precious space away. Just an idea to consider. 😎🤟
One possible option you missed is the old bush trick here in Australia to get 2 12v batteries ho ned together in series with jumper leads and weld DC. Obviously rod selection comes into play with this method. Not exactly great for the life of the batteries, but has been a standard long before suitcase welders existed. Not exactly oranges for oranges, but a definite alternative.
As several people have written below, the best way to weld from an overlander is with a Premier Power Welder. It fits under the hood and comes with a high output alternator that will keep all of your house batteries charged at the same time. Other than that, something like a Fronius battery pack welder that can charge from an inverter is the only realistic alternative but it will take up precious space in the rig (much like a separate welder and generator or monster inverter), which is why PPW is the best solution.
Switching to 6013 rod with the inverter welders makes all the difference in the world for some reason they do not like 6011, but 6013 runs like pure butter
Premier Power Welder. I know others have mentioned it but keep in mind you do have to run their alternator. Of the guys I know running them they have had zero problems. The frequency those things weld at is some kind of magical voodoo science. But they work!
Hey Rich, cut out the middleman, connect your welding cables direct to a couple of batteries. 2 in series should do it. Maybe 3.
try 2 batteries in series (24v) positive ground and a stinger, I have done it on many occasions to get out of a bind 😉👍
Looks like you need a PREMIER POWER WELDER for under hood of the rig. They have a mini system also. Good luck Rich
When I was growing up in Nairobi, the biggest problem was the 50 hertz vs Canada’s 60Hz. Remember that a 50 Hz transformer needs to be at least 20% larger for the same VA’s.
This was a cool series of tests, just goes to show that there's no actual replacement for a proper engine-driven welder for field work--but if you HAD TO, there are options. Thanks Rich and Vince!
Running large loads tends to be where good quality lithium batteries shine. Much less voltage sag under load. The 200ah lithium in my camper will comfortably run 1800w. Look at how well the Milwaukee lithiums perform. Excellent engineering in the Milwaukee inverter too.
I use an inverter geni a lot for a small welder. Make sure if possible to kill the eco mode. Will run my 140 amp mig at full kill well enough to get the jobs done.
Your problem with the inverters might actually be the AGM battery. I know a guy running an inverter welding setup with 2 or 3 100AH lithium batterys and that works well for him.
Yes there was two problems there, (a) The dc cables on all the inverters was way way too small to handle the high current without inducing substantial voltage drop, and (b) that battery is not capable of supplying enough current for long enough to be useful!
If you can fit a second alternator you can feed these inverter welders DC 100v+. You can get high voltage alternators for off grid use. Way better than running off an inverter.
@@ValRigoli From what I've heard, that's the #1 issue for most people off-gridding on 12V systems, wire gauge requirements. Since higher voltages allow for the same watt/hr over lighter gauge wiring, they aren't forced into 0-4AWG on the demanding circuits with 48V+ systems.
Well I'll be damned, I totally expected the budget welder to consistently be the chokepoint in these tests. Instead, the welder was ol' reliable. Definitely impressed with it! Like another commenter mentioned, you might find better results connecting the Pb batteries in series (24/36/48V), but that'll likely necessitate a change in inverters. As far as I'm familiar, the operating voltage range on 12V inverters is only around 10-15V. That range gets more forgiving with each nominal voltage increase, to the extent that some 48 or 60V inverters' operating range will allow for the addition or removal of a battery from nominal (3s-5s on 48V, or 4s-6s on 60V) without risking not powering up or frying components. It's a shame that 12V caught on so much in the early adoption of off-gridding, since so much of the market is directed there, while most actually using 12V hate it from what I've seen. The reliability is meh, the gauge of cables necessary to handle 12V systems is much larger (0-2 AWG is usually recommended), while 48V or higher are usually 10 AWG. Anyway, I've rambled enough. I'm curious which countries in Africa you'll be traveling through and how long of a trek is planned. I imagine I'm not the first to advise caution, and plenty of forethought paid to avoiding active conflict zones. Pretty much precluding all of Northern Africa except for Egypt and Morocco, and since they're both on opposite coasts it's doesn't matter. Also, most (all?) of Africa uses 220-240VAC at 50Hz instead of 60Hz, and I believe their mains prong configurations vary from country to country. Only really an issue for shore power, but definitely worth researching.
There was two main problems there, (a) the dc cables on all the inverters was way way too small to handle the high current without inducing substantial voltage drop, and (b) that battery is not capable of supplying enough current for long enough to be useful!
Would love some more reviews and tools for new welders for simple garage projects
Where can I buy the adjustable chipping hammer that Vince is using?? o/
interesting, i bought one of these welders after your first video and my predator 3500 generator did not like running it at all no matter what setting even though it runs my Lincoln 100hd wire feed no problem. I'll have to try running it off my solar system now that i have seen how well it ran off the Milwaukee inverter.
good content - you experimented for research purposes and managed to have a good time and learned some tigs - good point about sine wave gen - pretty thorough - more reviews and info on how to weld mig/tig and for different materials also appreciated - compare plasma vs torch possibly - good overall content - educational
Sunday night drop? Aight!
Thanks for the great content, as always, Rich! Your channel has been a helpful resource for me. Let me know when you get to Uganda and we'll have some home cooking for you guys.
I bought the same welder, and I can tell you from personal experience that on 120v, the welder draws some current. Enough so that it destroyed the outlet it was plugged into and took the rest of the circuit down in my garage @ full pull. The problem with using a 12v batt to an inverter is that you end up losing a lot of efficiency. Better off using 3-12v batts in series for a trail repair. That little welder does work good at home if you need to lay a lot of weld quickly. I repaired my ATV plow last year with a mig on one side, and then went to the arc welder for the other. Repairs like this are perfect for that little welder. Of coarse I could have turned up the Mig at the cost of burning through an ass ton of wire/gas.
Great vid as always. Premier power welder. Ofcourse review. And review on a hypertherm 30 air. Love mine.
In my 3500 diesel. I had 3 x 1000cca batteries and a 2600/3800 inverter from harbor freight. I could run my 900 watt micro no motor input. Jackhammer needed the motor. Idling. My 120v flux welder got 2-3 minutes. Before battery warning. Idling I could weld non stop. Alternator was a power master 245A series.
Fronius makes a battery powered stick welder. I have the Fronius transpocket 180 stick welder that I run off a 4200 watt generator, 110 volt outlet with a extension cord and it will run 1/8” 7018 If you’re going to use an inverter/generator it needs to be around 4,000 watts or more.
Esab too now.
I run my Lincoln Mig on my Ego Nexus, works great
The inverters could keep the Milwaukee batteries charged, right?
Yes a full review of the bigger welder please, want to see how different the internals are. Also do consider sending it to BigClive if he's interested to do a teardown/reerse engineer it, it's surprising how far electronics have come..
Neat experiment to see!
I really think it would be simpler, cheaper and a better final result to convert a ~200A alternator into a welder driven straight off the accessory belt. You can DIY this kind of setup. This is for 4WD/adventure trips, of course. Wouldn't use it to earn a living.
You can get esop welder with batteries.
I have a warfox plasma and dekopro stick machine. No trouble with 7018 1/8s hooked to 220. Also does well with 3/32 hooked to 110.
Great video! I was actually curious about this, and if my Honda 2200i could hold up. Pro Tip: Whenever I am going to work out the max capacity of my little Honda, I will turn off the ECO Throttle. Something about the overload and the throttle response not being able to produce the capacity right away. inverter generators have a floating neutral, I haven't had any issues with this. Im no electrician, so you'll have to look up the science behind that and if it affects a welder.
for a welder inverter for your overland rig check out premier power welders its a inverder welder driven off the alternator
My personal experience. I used a 6500w generator and my harbor freight 125a flux core welder and had no issues welding up to 3/16”.
You should look at Matt's Offroad Recovery, as they have a portable welder set up for their off-road wrecker. Trail Mater also has a set up for off road welding, too...different from Matt's.
Inverter at 48v dc 6000w low frequency runs my miller 250 just fine for 7 years now. I live off the grid.
If anything this is a good test to see what power source has the cleanest power
I ended up getting a nice 3500w Ryobi generator for 30$ after a carb clean and a new pull starter it runs my harbor freight 125 mig welder pretty good if I crank the rpm's up a bit
For welding, you need a low frequency pure sine wave inverter. Low frequency inverters can put out amp instantly. Unlike the high frequency inverter you used. Need to ramp up the amps slowly witch doesn't work when you're welding.
Please make reviews on different flux/ mig or multi welders, mostly budget friendly 🙏
If you read the manual on the inverters, you usually have to hard wire new wires in to get the max rating the stock plugs give you half of the power, that’s what the Canadian tire manuals say
And something to help control the volt level of that makes since
Honestly to solve that problem all you would need is something remote to rev your truck engine in that scenario! Match your arms to the amps or welding stuff if that makes since
At the last swap meet that I was at I bought a spool wire feed welder that runs off a car battery. The guy I bought it from said it worked great
As mentioned. Premier power welder
Premier power welder is the way to go
Y’all gotta try the Premier Power welder!
I run a 11000 wat max gen with 240v and it powers a 1982 miller dialarc and can run 3/16 rod at 140 and it usually pops the genny breaker after a full stick so 1/8 all day
They do make dc welders mugs and such that run of 12- 48v I think I no most welder's require 5,000w inverters minimum. Great video thank you also I'm sure the Milwaukee is so much more stable probably why it worked so well goreat tools I just switched a couple years ago got some in a trade and the old 3/8" m18 fuel impact blew away my brand new DeWalt with twice the battery power Ben using the red brand since love them and I'm not easy on tools I'll use a drill as a hammer in a heartbeat lol
This is such an interesting idea. What's the lightest and most portable we could possibly make a usable welding unit? I'm here for it.
Oh how I wish I could join you guys on your African trip.. Its has always been a dream to make an overland trip across Africa..
When i need to be light and mobile i use 2 honda EU2000i paralleled with an ESAB 160 amp suitcase welder, works good but you have to turn off the eco throttel or else it will trip out the welder
100% do a review on the bigger welder
Other options: karnage welder, premier power welder, fronius or Esab battery welders. Theres also the 2-3 car batteries in series.
I've been looking for a video like this for a little while. I'm currently making a couple of KZhead shorts about making a welding truck using a 24 V power converter that does 240 and 120 That does 6000 W With a peak of 18000 W meant for rv use. it's not going to be a huge professional video, but I'm using a sungoodpower Inverter. And hopefully everything work. If not, then all the stuff I've learned in electrical. I can transfer over to the RV that. I'm one of.
I've been thinking of doing similar. Solar on top of a schoolbus RV/crawler hauler. Then I can run my welder off that in case my jeep breaks.
And hopefully using a bigger power converter with pure sound wave will actually work. But I'm putting everything in my toolbox. With 2 12 V Lithium phosphate batteries wired for 24 V. Hopefully have enough amps to be able to drive it.
I do so enjoy me some stick welding. Who makes a killer Vegas style soundtrack for a welding review video? Yes. I’m only here for the music.
I’d be down for a full review of the bigger welder. Pretty interesting unit for the price. I paid $2000us for my Chinese tig unit, granted it’ll do ac and dc, along with cooking my meals with kitchen sink included. None the less, if all you’re interested in is ferrous tig, that thing might change your world!
I use a hobart 140 with a xantrex inverter
Just buy the welding kit for trucks they work great
I got that 200 it’s great. Try plasmas cutter bestarc 7 th gen great little machine
Dang, I got a good laugh when you pretended to plug the battery charger into the inverter. 😂
secondary alternator rewound and wired to the bumper welds 2.5 rods all day
Hey Rich, When stick welding, (Like Vince is doing) try striking the arc like your striking a match. You'l have a lot more success in getting it going......... 😃👍
try cracking the the rpms up to around 2k should help
LMAO @ "extra long oil change intervals".. "never going to get an oil change" 🥳🥳🥳 so true.
Physics - once the arc becomes unstable, you have a switching load on an inverter based welder (switching transformation) being powered by a switching inverter. There's very little inertia in your power system and it cycles out of control, arc breaks, weld fails. Try plugging in an spinning/unloaded 1/2 HP AC motor on the same circuit as the welder.
Rich have you tried stick welding with three 12v car batteries in series use the positive as the ground and the negative as the electrode use E6010 OR E7018 rods 2 to 5mm thick steel will be a 3mm rod and will pull 140 to 165 amps this type of welding is what us aussies would use when travelling in the outback 4wdriving when you are hundreds of km from know where cheers from down under
Kool test. That 12v battery test is exactly what I'll be trying next. I've got a 3500w VEVOR inverter and a 12v 100ah battery. Want to see if it'll work off grid. I'll try with 1/6" 6013. When our weather in Vegas clears I'll post the results on my "tinkering geezer" channel. Thanks for your info guys...
having thicc enough wires from the battery to the inverter is crucial. it's like 300 amps from the battery to the inverter at full blast. even on like 300w inverters the wires are usually too small to hit the 300w, even if the insides of the device would be fine for that, and the volts drop and the inverter drops out.
Thanks for the advice. The inverter-battery wire is 0 gauge. I've tested 1500w 140 amps microwave which would only run about 50 seconds. So my 12v solar setup may not be viable. I'll post results. I have been advised that 3-4 SLA batteries may be needed. Thanks again for your input.
I’d like to see a review of the 200. I bought the 1355 off y’all’s review of it and have been eyeballing the 200 (I’ve been stick welding for a while but kind of want to learn tig and having a cheapo stick machine with hot start and a few other amenities would be nice…that 1355 is awesome for the price
lol if your going to buy a Chinese inverter to run a 2000w load then buy one that says 6000w continuous then it might just possibly work... but that i cant guarantee i can weld off my 12v inverter on my van rated at 5000w from a reputable brand (sterling power products). but on a Chinese inverter having a 24v or 48v system will help things along greatly
All of the inverters you tested are high frequency types. Low frequency inverters have a higher surge for a longer time, most cost more and are heavy as the transform uses 60hz. Try a Xratrex 3012 or 2012, they can be stacked for 240, or the EU versions are 240
I hope your gonna fit a welder generator/alternator to your land rover as I can see you stopping alot to help out locals who are broken down on the side of the road. Their brilliant Fabrats and Matt's off-road recovery use them all the time and swear by them
This can be done. You guys just aren't using the right stuff. I just had to be that guy, to say it. Honestly found it very entertaining and informative just busting your chops. 🤷 As I'm sure you're well aware of the limiting factor is the inverter. You can get a bigger alternator. Mechman makes a 370 amp alternator. I seen many vehicles with dual alternators. I'm sure a couple deep or a few cycle batteries would hold the energy need. I'm wondering even if a better welder would make a big difference. The machine, not Vince. My buddies is boilermaker he has a miller CST™ 282 or Maxstar® STR 210. I these are the top of the top in welders but I seen him weld some damn thick metal on a for 1500 watt breaker. With ease. I love how you guys are experimenting. Makes me want to get out there and start a new project I have finished about 300 other ones first.
I bet that would make a big difference. The youtube channel "making mistakes with greg" just did a few videos about running welders on generators on welders, and the efficiency of different welders. It's pretty amazing the difference in power draw between cheap inverter/old transformer machines and new inverter machines with power factor correction.
Been welding off and on for 40 years I thought recently I had lost my touch, it was the power supply not my skills 😂
yes do the TL 200 please
I run a cheap modified sine wave 3000w with 6000w burst with a cheap old buzz box stick welder and it will run all day it cuts out the welder from over heating. But ots on a large lifepo4 battery so guessing that makes the difference
What about the premier power on board welder? It mounts in the vehicle and runs off of an alternator for stick welding, no tig though
I'd like a review on what router works best to adapt an Audi transmission bellhousing to an LS engine.
will you do a review on Laser Welding
In Canada it's got a Princess Auto label on it in in US it has a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric tag on it it is an 80 amp 120 volt welding machine and if you look here on KZhead you will find videos of this machine running off a 2000 watt generator and this unit I'm talking about is only 150 bucks the other thing I want to ask is did you try 5/64 of an inch 6013 there are 12 inch electrode and the best ones are made by Lincoln Electric Company in that size
You Should have used the tried and true premierpowerwelder!!!
Test it on a solar power station. Like a goal zero or bluetti.
Merlin's Old School Garage on KZhead, Merlin rewires alternators to us as a stick welder as well as run your vehicle. Might want to check him out.
I have 3 x 3000 watt pure synwave inverters and 340 w/h battery back up supply with 35 amp solar power when the sun is out,here in Western Australia that's most days 300+
Review the 200TP welder. Wanting to learn how to weld, but don’t really want to spend $500-$1000 on a welder, as I don’t really have a ton of need for welding.
I'm surprised you guys didn't try a couple batteries in series with jumper cables. I've seen a couple of people do that and it was enough to get then back home
Works even better if you make dedicated jumpers with battery terminals and use an actual stinger/ground clamp
The 110v only tl -1355lt welder is junk, sent mine back as it wouldn’t run a bead at all.
should be able to run 3/16 6010 with 66amp for surface facing... the old Lincoln does that.