Why F1 Drivers Use WEIRD Racing Lines

2023 ж. 15 Қаз.
2 366 631 Рет қаралды

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This is the mathematically PERFECT racing line - the precise arc through a corner that allows racing drivers to carry the MOST sped through the bend. The widest arc, allowing for the MOST SPEED.
So, why do racing drivers IGNORE this?
If they are at the TOP of their game - why do they not drive on this geometrically perfect line? Well, let's dive into every type of racing line - to explain.
📹 All source footage can be found here 👉 bit.ly/3txHDdp
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#Formula1 #RacingLine #Motorsport

Пікірлер
  • My favorite part of track driving is that as you learn about one corner it inherently changes following corners. If you nail 1 turn perfectly for the first time you are going to get to the next corner faster so now your braking point changes at least. You spend a lot of time trying to construct all those points when learning a track, and hopefully you manage to be close to your ideal more often than not. Then there are the aliens that get 90% of a track "right" the first time and it's very quickly about tenths and hundredths of seconds of gain.

    @Scoots1994@Scoots19947 ай бұрын
    • I think most F1 champions belong to the "alien" category somewhere, because getting 90% right on the first lap means you can refine your driving line, and other lines for overtaking and defending (like Max in Brazil 2016 on Rosberg), giving you a huge advantage on your opponents

      @wexalian@wexalian7 ай бұрын
    • It's always important to keep in mind two corners a time depending on the part of the track, it helps me when learning specific tracks

      @PozzaPizz@PozzaPizz7 ай бұрын
    • To me these aliens are the ones who seemingly use all the same lines, but they are just able to brake later, corner faster, and get on the throttle faster. Usually it's down to smoothness and knowledge of weight transfer.

      @frederickschulze8014@frederickschulze80147 ай бұрын
    • I can summarise your entire explanation with one word, Speed.

      @ajstyles5704@ajstyles57047 ай бұрын
    • @@wexalian I think all F1 drivers are probably aliens in that regard. The top 1% of F1 drivers probably get to the high 90s in their first lap and are able to maintain much closer to the ideal for lap after lap after lap. Us mortals are always chasing.

      @Scoots1994@Scoots19947 ай бұрын
  • The rally racing line is also often different. Since most corners in a rally stage are blind, it’s preferred to hit the apex later to improve visibility around the corner. Specially in events with no recce, like baja and raid

    @joaofcascao@joaofcascao7 ай бұрын
    • it's also so much less ambiguous haha, if you can't see the road then you're too early

      @dsdy1205@dsdy12056 ай бұрын
    • It also depends on the surface. On gravel rallies, you usually end up following the tire lines set by the cars driving the stage before you. That's because those other cars have already swept the gravel away from the road. So even though the previous tire lines might not be the "ideal" line, they offer more grip and less friction resistance. It's sort of like following the rubber braking lines in circuit racing. That's usually why rally drivers dislike being the first or even second driver on a fresh gravel stage.

      @urbananalrapist@urbananalrapist6 ай бұрын
    • Rally is also a balancing act of grip (you have very little) and power (because you have no grip, you can't use it) This is why almost every corner is taken sliding. (i.e. rotate the car, and stay on power.)

      @jfbeam@jfbeam6 ай бұрын
    • @@jfbeam Yet it is still mostly about controlling the balance of the car.

      @Reinhard_Erlik@Reinhard_Erlik6 ай бұрын
    • This is the exact method taught to police officers during pursuit training. The cars are generally bigger and less nimble but higher in HP which is better for straightaways. Vision around corners as well as safety entering and exiting the turn.

      @spartan8185@spartan8185Ай бұрын
  • I would love to see Scott demonstrate ideal, geometric and karting lines in a car for a video, like driving a whole lap using each line style and comparing their times

    @thedj9553@thedj95537 ай бұрын
    • Im sure he will entertain the idea if you can secure a track for a day to do the shooting 😂

      @user-jh6vt8vx4v@user-jh6vt8vx4v7 ай бұрын
    • Not sure about geometry because circumstances are very complex

      @kerimca98@kerimca987 ай бұрын
    • @@user-jh6vt8vx4v it's not like he has to rent out a track, sim racing exists

      @thedj9553@thedj95536 ай бұрын
    • Go faster longer ,Fangio .

      @sourcetext@sourcetext6 ай бұрын
  • Slow corners are where newbies lose the most time, because they're usually followed by straights and also the car spends a higher % of the lap time during the slow corner as a result of the slower speed.

    @PicnicAtTheTesco@PicnicAtTheTesco7 ай бұрын
    • Yes, it all comes down to ratio of seconds, not meters and how long you keep the advantage in speed. 10 seconds of corners with 5 seconds of straight? Focus on getting out of the corners ASAP. 5/10 ratio, focus on the exit.

      @DriftJunkie@DriftJunkie7 ай бұрын
    • Yep. I’ve seen people argue that someone has way more power so must be illegal because they’re pulling away down a straight. But, often it’s the difference in someone carrying a lot of speed in and being slow off compared to someone being slower in and faster off.

      @NBSV1@NBSV17 ай бұрын
    • Ergo the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. A throwaway corner, not a little braking hump before it what matters is getting setting up for the scary (don't spin!) fun downhill out of it. Sets you up for the tight bend (don't spin!) onto the front straight (watch the marshals tower!)

      @toomanyuserids@toomanyuserids6 ай бұрын
    • Not all seconds are equal in racing when comparing them to where the second was gained or lost. Most cars are set up to maximize the speeds on the straights where per unit of time more distance is traveled. 0.1 second gained at 60 mph in a turn is not the same as 0 1 second gained at 200 mph. It seems like 0.1 seconds any where on the track would overall be the same as time is time regardless of speed but distance traveled means per lap not per any random .01 at all places isolation. That .0.1 seconds at speed helps far more than 0.1 s going thru a slow turn . Take off 0.1 seconds b4 a car next to u at a light and the other car might be a couple feet ahead of u at the nose or even a half carlength ....at a illegal speed on highway both cars wide open and let off accelerator and other car will shoot ahead instantly. Its the OVERALL lap time that counts not all parts of the track are equal. Normally a higher turn speed carries more speed exiting corner ulimately having a bigger gain of top speed at the end. But sometimes its better to go slower thru a turn to maximize the next more important section. Thats whats so cool about racing is the mathematical perfect arc may NOT be the best. So many other variables . If it were pure math the quickest way around the track would be the shortest distance and inside line thru the entire lap but in a real world situation .....that goes out the window. Esspecially if there are banked corners.

      @waynegarfield6607@waynegarfield66076 ай бұрын
    • ​​@@waynegarfield6607good example are those videos of Jordan cox with his civic against v8s in australia.

      @SaltyHoldy@SaltyHoldy4 ай бұрын
  • My guess is also F1 cars have so much power, that time on wide open throttle is more important than mid corner speeds.

    @ktwei@ktwei7 ай бұрын
    • Depends on the car and how much DF it generates at each stage of the corner, and how good it handles those in low, medium and high speed corners. Back with the blown diffusers in the Vettel era, they had UNREAL downforce on throttle/corner exit. So they would prioritize getting on throttle sooner, so late apexing was more ideal.

      @Real28@Real287 ай бұрын
    • in most cars having a good exit is more important then having as high as possible minimum speed because the ideal line isn’t that slow on minimum speed but if your not as skilled a more geometric line is quicker because most new people over slow the car to get the early rotation

      @BiscuitsYT@BiscuitsYT7 ай бұрын
    • This is also where the type of track comes into play. If there are a lot of mid- to low-speed corners, a car that performs well in them will be faster overall than a car that doesn't but that has more top end speed. For example, they've been showing a lot of driver comparisons during qualifying at F1, and you will see the top two drivers compared. One is typically faster in the corners and one is typically faster in the straights. Generally, is the one faster in the corners that is faster overall.

      @mhicaoidh1@mhicaoidh17 ай бұрын
    • Yup which is why oversteer is preferred over understeer as oversteer helps with rotation of the car better allowing for better exit speed You rather V off a corner than U off For heavier cars like touring cars you would prefer understeer as that helps with apex speed momentum which is more important for a car type like that than a F1 car Only at front limited tracks oversteer might be an issue for F1 cars due to excessive front wheel slip angles causing excessive tire wear

      @RANDOMZBOSSMAN1@RANDOMZBOSSMAN17 ай бұрын
    • Don't forget, the faster a F1 car goes through a corner, the more downforce it generates by the wings and therefor the more grip it has. So it really comes down to every single corner / combination.

      @Bluebird209@Bluebird2097 ай бұрын
  • When riding my dual-sport on gravel hairpins I noticed that I get quicker the more I "V" the corner. To an extend where I almost come to a complete stop at the apex, turn the bike and throttle out again. You can see pro riders do the same if there is no berm. It is the grip/power ratio at the extreme. My bike has close to 50hp, but I have grip for maybe 20 of those. Taking the geometric line it feels like ages you spend in the corner waiting for the bike to straighten up so you can open the throttle again.

    @Kalimerakis@Kalimerakis7 ай бұрын
    • That's what Scott explain in this video, but also you have to remember keeping your brake temperature at best not too cold or hot unless you wanna get lock up or go to gravel. 😅

      @bimapriambada1098@bimapriambada10987 ай бұрын
    • A tight supercross track might have a couple sections where a rider would square off a corner as its sonetimes called, to guard the inside or make a block pass but normally a smooth arc with a smooth uniform throttled increasing slighty as to minimize rear wheel spin is ulitamately the fastest. In the 80s and 90s US motocross riders were squaring off coners more and tge European style was to " Road Race" the track and sweep the outside to carry monentum. We did beat the Euros more back then but it was more about the agressiveness of SX that we started, the shorter races 30 mins US vs 45 mins So the less fatiguing arc method worked as to save energy, however after time almost all winning riders today use the sweeping arc style over inside , pivot ,then hard acceleration because even tho its on dirt the lines of a pavement course work as well. Its all about putting the power to the ground and hooking up vs spinning your wheels

      @waynegarfield6607@waynegarfield66076 ай бұрын
  • I've been doing this in racing games forever, my driving style has evolved to this. I set up for the final corner, might be a touch slower the start, but I make up for it on exit and straight away speed. Granted every track is different and requires it's own technique.

    @glennpedwell3032@glennpedwell30327 ай бұрын
    • When my son introduced me to a driving game I blew his lap record by several percent on my first lap. He was impressed that I was drifting. A million miles on the road you learn something. These days he gets an Uber almost every day (long story,) he's 36 and I'm still his favorite driver.

      @cowboybob7093@cowboybob70936 ай бұрын
  • Really well explained! Definitely one of the more important concepts in racing. Just one small thing. It seems like you swapped the two clips where you explained the line through the Villeneuve chicane at 9:26 and 9:34.

    @nxtrx.@nxtrx.7 ай бұрын
    • Exactly my thoughts :D

      @sporealanw@sporealanw7 ай бұрын
  • Its interesting watching a GT car and a formula car through a sequence of bends. Whereas a GT car with moderate downforce may have to really open up the entrance to the second corner, sometimes a formula car can just ride around the inside kerb of the second corner flat because the higher speed allows it to carry way more downforce.

    @ChrisMisMYhandle@ChrisMisMYhandle7 ай бұрын
  • Love this. Very succinct for the amount of ground it covers. The last bit about corner complexes and sacrificing one corner to set up the next is so often overlooked in videos like these. Years ago I watched a recording of racing school video in which the instructor said “the most important corner on any given track is the last one before the longest straight” and it changed the way I looked at racing lines forever.

    @volleyballurrrr@volleyballurrrr6 ай бұрын
    • I instantly went to the classic Gran Turismo track Deep Forest. While that initial hairpin is intimidating for beginners, the real monster is the very last corner. With most cars, the corner takes just the slightest tap of the brakes to take cleanly. Screw up the exit speed on the final lap, and congrats, you just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

      @ShadowOfCicero@ShadowOfCicero6 ай бұрын
  • I come from a short track speed skating background, granted its oval track racing. The tactics often cross lines from auto racing and short track speed skating. There are many different lines in an oval, depending on drafting off the skater ahead of you and how you can set up the pass.

    @flashgordon3715@flashgordon37157 ай бұрын
    • Agreed, as a kart racer or racing fan overall, short track is one of the most exciting sports to watch. Mind boggling to see how ice can produce so many levels of grip, just judging from the skaters' behaviour during a race.

      @SylverPfeil@SylverPfeil7 ай бұрын
  • You just took me back a _very_ long time! Very interesting to see the comparisons between the types of racing. I did think that it would be much more fun in Abu Dhabi if they gave the drivers go karts instead of F1 cars 😂 As my rally driver dad taught me, "fast in, slow out; slow in, fast out." Whichever was most suitable for any given corner was the one to choose. Though he did spend about half of my learning taking me on rally "tracks" (mostly mountain and forestry given where we lived. He'd actually been one of the designers for our section of the Round Britain Rally back in the early 60s). This was in a 2lt Datsun Laurel, weighing over 1.5 tonnes with no power steering. I was 17, quite strong for a girl but I'm not particularly tall, so I had to rely on him (at 6ft) to be my co-driver and tell me when to turn on some sections because I couldn't see over the steering wheel 🤣 Not much fun on a single track mountain pass with 90° turns! (I had proper "pass my test" lessons; Dad did the "how to drive when you're up to your eyes in it" lessons. Over 41 years - if you include the learning, 41 next January otherwise - I have used Dad's teaching more often than I would want! Still got a clean licence, though 😉. Fortunately, I have used Mr Picton's far more!)

    @y_fam_goeglyd@y_fam_goeglyd7 ай бұрын
  • I actually learned something new here: the newbie line 😊 Very informative, this actually all sounds very logical but that's because it's very well explained 👍

    @khasmir666@khasmir6667 ай бұрын
  • Seriously your videos are gold. I’ve been wondering about this and guessed that the sims have geometric racing lines as ideal, and not dependent on the car which would seem incredibly complicated. Thanks!

    @onetripwonders@onetripwonders6 ай бұрын
  • I’m reminded of T3 at Zanvoort and T1 at Qatar. The first race back at Zandvoort drivers started out on the “racing line” but explored the track by expanding the corner into the banking which ended up being faster. Qatar was a bit different but at T1 we saw a lot more overtaking once drivers figured out how much grip they had using the wider line. Exciting stuff to watch unfold.

    @Formula4Dopemine@Formula4Dopemine7 ай бұрын
    • Mugello T1 was similar to Qatar T1, many overtakes on the outside with camber. It combines the traits of both Zandvoort and Qatar

      @xXUnoriginalNameXx33Meygaera@xXUnoriginalNameXx33Meygaera7 ай бұрын
    • Also, the wider line the faster

      @ulysse21@ulysse216 ай бұрын
    • You should also generally expect the line to change over the course of a race because they will actually be depositing enough rubber on the track to affect the grip surface and optimal lines over multiple laps.

      @MAlanThomasII@MAlanThomasII6 ай бұрын
    • Yeah Alonso was the first to discover the faster line at T3 Zandvoort and all the other drivers copied him

      @hamza-chaudhry@hamza-chaudhry4 ай бұрын
    • @@hamza-chaudhry Alonso always had the wider lines everywhere

      @ulysse21@ulysse214 ай бұрын
  • You guys really need to install content manager, shaders patch and SOL for your Assetto Corsa

    @marble25@marble257 ай бұрын
  • Used to play lots of Gran Tourismo back in the day. Getting a smooth racing line was always so satisfying.

    @takanara7@takanara77 ай бұрын
  • Great race coaching as always, but man this video is a masterclass in editing. Well done!

    @thatllpreach@thatllpreach6 ай бұрын
  • I Learned to Drive back in high schook. We didn't have driver education in school to cloud our minds with useless information. I studied (and my school grades reflected it) the textbook "The Technique Motor Racing" by Grand Prix driver Piero Taruffi. This is very complex book it was every bit as inclusive is any other school subject. It not only went into the correct driving lines, to things like coefficient efficient of friction between a car's tires and the road on a road surface. I learned a lot and it helped me later on. I won my first Race 3 hours after I got my driver's license. And I won a championship my first season, while racing a Stingray. Which is definitely not a beginner's car.

    @gtracer6629@gtracer66297 ай бұрын
  • That was a good breakdown actually! The different levels and stages of racing line remind me of the progress made over the years with my own driving when it comes to skill, grip and performance! I've definitely hung out in all of the "camps" that you outlined haha

    @tommis1985@tommis19856 ай бұрын
  • I’ve watched your entire instructional series but this video right here just took me to the next level. I can’t wait to get back on “sim” track!! I’ve been driving every car more or less to the geometric line wondering why I’m usually a so so racer, I tend to have my best luck in higher grip low power cars too just like you mention. I will try and push harder and see if I can figure out how to get some more competitive times.

    @shadetreerc891@shadetreerc891Ай бұрын
  • So much incredible info packed into one short video! The newbie line is exactly what I used to do for many years. If you don't think too hard, it almost makes sense- you want to go fast, so why not turn into the corner as soon as you can? Only once I started watching motorsport and saw the ideal line did I realize I was doing it exactly backwards- too much speed into the corner, turning in too early, and exiting like a tortoise while running way wide. I think most road cars tend to be grip-limited, certainly in the case of any cars I've driven, and the V-shaped ideal line works well in that situation. Gentler on road tires and lets you get on the power sooner for a quick exit. I honestly didn't even know about the theoretical line until recently, with all the talk in F1 about V-shaped vs U-shaped driving preferences.

    @its_clean@its_cleanАй бұрын
  • The way corners are knitted together is fundamental too - identifying where a theoretically suboptimal line through a corner maximises the potential for a subsequent corner or combination that is more important for constructing the fastest possible lap-time. We called them 'sacrifice corners' - there weren't a lot of them around, but those that exist are often key to unlocking a track's fast times.

    @luzr6613@luzr66136 ай бұрын
  • Can you do a video on the hand/wrist positioning differences? Like how Nico Rosberg, Jean Alesi, and Jos Verstappen held the wheel higher up for less strain on the wrists and turning more with their arms?

    @vadik_odstsityev@vadik_odstsityev6 ай бұрын
  • Awesome, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences..

    @norcalrio1788@norcalrio17884 ай бұрын
  • I really enjoy your video content.. coz not only I can learn new thing. i can relate with what previously I did right but never understand why it was right at the 1st place.

    @alphaschneider2468@alphaschneider24686 ай бұрын
  • Downforce and lift make this even more fun to figure out as the handling dynamics can change significantly with speed.

    @ksnax@ksnax6 ай бұрын
  • One of your best videos. Very well explained.

    @Alex-jc3xx@Alex-jc3xx7 ай бұрын
  • Great info. And these things are hard to explain to someone who doesn’t spend time at the track. Glad my coach could explain the information about multiple corners or chicanes and how it isn’t always the fastest lap time by taking part of that section the fastest, but more on setting up the corners to maximize your exit momentum and speed. It’s also why looking at sector times alone, doesn’t tell the whole story

    @KosmicHRTRacingTeam@KosmicHRTRacingTeam6 ай бұрын
  • Great lesson! After years of track days, agree exit speed rules. When in doubt, late apex. Sergio has occasionally been guilty of early apexing too fast, and going off track.

    @kevink2315@kevink23156 ай бұрын
  • Great video. Always found it interesting that F1 drivers often use different lines

    @dylondylondylondylondylon5@dylondylondylondylondylon57 ай бұрын
  • Interesting video Scott. I'm planning to go sprinting next year (2024). It will mainly be at Curborough. I've got into the habit of trail braking through the first half of Fradley Hairpin based on the way Martin Donelley taught me to take the Rindt Hairpin at Hethel a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if that's the fastest way round in my Elise. I do need a lot more track time in the wet though, as all bar one of a handful of track days has been in the dry. I've taken on board your advice about the wet racing line.

    @EuropaSman@EuropaSman6 ай бұрын
  • It also takes more nerve to head straighter towards the wall and later on the brakes at the same time. If you make a mistake braking, you have no track left on the line that gives you the best exit.

    @originalmianos@originalmianos7 ай бұрын
  • Would love to also hear you talk about slip angle Also, it’s so easy to understand what turning does to momentum and speed if you just take a kart and push it in a straight line, then try and push it when you turn the wheels and see how big of a difference there it

    @KosmicHRTRacingTeam@KosmicHRTRacingTeam6 ай бұрын
  • i uses "newbee" technique in bahrein turns 9-10. i brake super late for turn9, then i'm very early into turn 10, but this way i brake only once (and continuously) for the 2 corners.

    @Housestationlive@Housestationlive7 ай бұрын
  • At Silvertone in 1992 we watched a feeder serireis race for Rover's They have the same racing line in wet or dry due to high traction and grip.

    @antonysnook4932@antonysnook49326 ай бұрын
  • Great explanation 👍

    @NAW32Nicoisme@NAW32Nicoisme4 ай бұрын
  • Well it's good to hear I've naturally learned a moderate amount of this, that being said I really do best in high mechanical grip, low power vehicles, but turns out in rallycross I'm doing pretty well. In 2/3 corner complexes I tend to be too aggressive early, but long complexes seem to move me into a flow and mellow it out a little and I can excel at them. Very frustrating how my racing overall is far for e racing enthusiast even ... But for the life of me I can't consciously teach myself where the time is on the track it is oddly frustrating.

    @bobbybobman3073@bobbybobman30736 ай бұрын
  • Hi Scott, thanks for great content, and good luck with the inversion challenge. A quick one on driving styles, and the video you did about Max and Schumacher’s style evolution for the F1 cars of the 2020s. It was a great video, but I picked up a discrepancy with Peter Windsor’s analysis of Max’s driving style, which he describes as extreme ‘short corners’ with early braking, early turn in, and superior rotation. This seems to be the opposite of your assessment of Max/Schu, in which you talk about late braking and efficient rotation in order to ‘V’ the corner. These can’t both be right, can they?! Can you help explain?

    @awoodruff002@awoodruff0026 ай бұрын
  • Yeah grip is limited by more than just lateral force, finding the ideal line should mean solving not for widest radius but for minimum time through a corner, which must take into account acceleration and momentary velocity values. One is a geometric solution, the other is a solution found through calculus.. the latter being far more detailed because it can accurately describe a less idealized, more realistic model. In short, all ya gotta do is master everything there is to the continuity of splines! All racing lines are splines of a particular order of continuity--solving around that would allow for adjusting things parametrically from there to solve for any combination of conditions.

    @seedmole@seedmole7 ай бұрын
  • Did I miss the talk about slip angle being the biggest contributor to a different line? The fastest way around a corner is when the rearend is sliding just a hair giving you more steering angle. On dirt since it takes awhile for the vehicle to react, its about getting the vehicle properly rotated for the exit of the turn. You are right every vehicle has its own way of best handling it around a corner.

    @2100suprafreak@2100suprafreak6 ай бұрын
  • i cant articulate what it feels like but you did. thank you sir 👏

    @i_smoke_ghosts@i_smoke_ghosts6 ай бұрын
  • Great video. Very close to in depth.

    @treatb09@treatb096 ай бұрын
  • This explains why I am better in the mazda than I am most cars.. I always try to drive to the geometric line, as I coast alot.. I am fast, like 2:17 at spa in acc. but not rapid, and I think this has just taught me how.. corrr this video has taught me a serious amount... really thank you Scott.

    @arctwosix4331@arctwosix43316 ай бұрын
  • First I like to thank you for your great explaination on why idel line differs a bit (more or less) from the theoretic geometrical line.. But for me the main reason is even a bit different.. The geometric line only can be the fastest solution if following applies: 1 centrifugal force (friction) from road, tyres and downforce is same everywhere in the corner. 2. My car is able to go faster / arrives faster at the beginning of the geometrical line than the biggest possible line allows 3. I am able to break to exacltly the maximum speed of the geometrical line speed at the beginning of the line.. Then it would be fastest, but as easy to guess all those factors do not apply to a real turn. The line driven, by riding a bit (more or less) over the beginning point, then breaking down to slower than that speed, beginning the turn a bit more tight towards the apex and the accellerating out on a even wider line is easier to get, more save to do no mistake and gives you the chance to adopt the speed and acceleration to the changing conditions of the track, your tires and even the aerodynamics (for example by car in front). Furthermore as all drivers do it like that, the grip niveau of that ideal line gets higher every round for a dry race, it must become faster than the geometric line.. I am totally with you on how motorpower (ability to accelerate) influences the exact form of the line driven. And last but not least, a tyre regularly loses ability to provide side guideance force aka centrifugal force, if it at the same time has to transfer acceleration or brwaking force.

    @zickentrainer@zickentrainer6 ай бұрын
  • Great video did you ever race in Toronto Canada. If so I might have seen you

    @markchapman2585@markchapman25857 ай бұрын
  • 9:26 I think the two clips at Imola are swapped by mistake

    @usernamefreaks@usernamefreaks7 ай бұрын
    • Yeah that caught me off guard too 😂

      @heelandtoe33@heelandtoe337 ай бұрын
  • This is brilliant and confirms my street racing days nearly a decade ago.

    @RinksRides@RinksRides6 ай бұрын
  • Even more pronounced in MotoGP, especially back in the 2 stroke days. Still really fun to watch Formula Vee or Spec Miata carrying speed.

    @OvertravelX@OvertravelX7 ай бұрын
  • I ride a motorcycle on the road, and using that ideal line would on a right hand bend potential put your head over the centreline which could have a rather poor outcome. Doing a cornering clinic at a local track we were encouraged to use a line more similar to the race driver, leave the turn in late, and the apex is much further around the bend than you initially think, and apply a modified version of this to the road to remain safe.

    @iallso1@iallso14 ай бұрын
  • great video!! thank you

    @Keep6ix360@Keep6ix3606 ай бұрын
  • The geometric line was used in the Sterling Moss era, it was in his book. For the same reasons as when you're talking about go karts. The late apex line is also used (a lot) by motorbikes as they have abundant acceleration and a touch less mid corner speed compared to a well setup car. For a "on the road" line though, keep tight on exit and only use the wide part for extra safety, then you've got that margin to correct, the risk of a head on or running off is too great for motorbikes.

    @BeamRider100@BeamRider1006 ай бұрын
  • It boils down to the shape of ggv diagram. Tyres having maximum grip in combined loads (braking+lateral) favor aggressive braking lines ,tyres having maximum grip in non combined load favor a round corner

    @bigdosty@bigdosty6 ай бұрын
  • The most amazing and fun corner i witnessed was in the pass seat of a stock engine RX8 with Olins coilovers at turn 6 of Laguna Seca. The driver (ex racing driver) snapped the car into the corner while kicking the brake and then took the corner with the steering wheel straight all the way through! Using the slip of the rear tires to do the turning at over 90miles an hour. Nuts but so much fun. I asked why and he said the car does not have much power so i need to keep the wheels straight as much as possible round the track and the speed up in the corners. Sometimes the best way round a corner is when your smile is the biggest.

    @eddiebezzell@eddiebezzell4 ай бұрын
  • Great tips. Im going to try this in the highway with my Honda civic hybrid. Wish me luck.

    @mankybrains@mankybrainsАй бұрын
  • Cars turn with all four tires, not just the front. Given a traction circle for each contact patch, you cannot accelerate hard and turn hard at the same time. It's just that simple. To get on the gas you straighten the corner exit. For this you push the Apex later. Which means you must push the turn in later, so you might as well brake later. How much depends on how much power you need to use. F1 aero downforce does allow turning late in the corner exit after some acceleration in some turns. Depends on the speed.

    @tomrutherford4907@tomrutherford49076 ай бұрын
  • I'm reminded of the video you did a while back about Fernando Alonso's time with Renault in the 2000s (I think) where he would just break the front wheels loose when entering a corner because the car had a wonky engine but massive rear grip, or some other set of weird conditions like that. I'll have to go review the video. 😂 The point is, sometimes even the Quirks and Features™ of an individual car can affect your race line.

    @JohnnyWishbone85@JohnnyWishbone856 ай бұрын
  • There is one other type of line through a corner: distance cutting line. It is rare to use, but there are some instances, particularly in low power cars, where the line you take doesn't give an exit speed or a corner speed advantage. In these cases you can save time by drawing a line that travels less total distance. It can also be used sometimes when spending less time in the corner is better than more exit speed.

    @peterleblanc661@peterleblanc6616 ай бұрын
  • I've always thought about taking the geometric lines, but definitely worth keeping in mind about ideal lines 🤔

    @TS_Mind_Swept@TS_Mind_Swept6 ай бұрын
  • Scott, I really appreciate your videos!! In this one though I'm confused with the video for combo corners that starts at about 10 minutes in. In the first video you show the car staying on the left mostly exiting the first turn to the left allowing for getting on throttle nicely exiting the second turn to the right but your commentary says it's the "best line for the left overslowing for the right getting an awful exit". That commentary seems to fit the second video in this sequence. I think the video got edited incorrectly and isn't synced with your commentary.

    @rogerwilson7971@rogerwilson79717 ай бұрын
  • Your thumbnail is a little cheeky there! But you did mention the thing that it made me think of immediately at the very end. I went to driving school at Barber Motorsports Park and my instructor referred to turn 14 there as "sacrifice corner" because taking the racing line there would put you in a non-ideal spot for turn 15 - which leads to the main straight. So we turned in tighter at 14 to get us best exit into 15 to the main straight. He also told us to not always "use the whole track" on wide corners in a race because "the guy behind you will divebomb you and you lose your spot. If you tuck in, you'll both be slow, but at least you keep your place."

    @FlexLex@FlexLex7 ай бұрын
  • Yep, corner exit speed, because it counts all the way through the next straight. A couple klicks faster in the middle of the corner won't gain you much time, but down a straight for several hundred meters it does.

    @ryancraig2795@ryancraig27957 ай бұрын
  • Thanks for the upload Scott! Love the racing line videos!

    @tmister007@tmister0077 ай бұрын
  • Man the Citcuit of the Americas GP corners after the first hairpin is the most challenging complex of corners it gives me so much headache maximizing that stretch of race track in games

    @neonlight1214@neonlight12144 ай бұрын
  • Ok, now I have more confidence in my driving techniques on Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon games. Thank you for explaining all of this!

    @JazzbLu@JazzbLu6 ай бұрын
  • Great episode

    @TheSurfRyder@TheSurfRyder6 ай бұрын
  • A slightly shallow entry is a thing too. IIRC montoya talked about this. Also Schumacher on the Bennetton. Dive in, flick it, and out.

    @freakinccdevilleiv380@freakinccdevilleiv3804 ай бұрын
  • This is a very interesting video!😁

    @awesomesan@awesomesan6 ай бұрын
  • Wow! This is really interesting!😮

    @GabrielsEpicLifeofGoals@GabrielsEpicLifeofGoalsАй бұрын
  • I experience this most visually in Real Racing 3 on mobile when doing time trials, it shows your previous best lap in a ghost, and the difference in lap times in progressively bolder green/red colors, so when you hammer down earlier than normal coming out of a corner and you suddenly notice a big burst of dark green in your lap time difference number out of the corner of your eye, you know that changing to an early apex made a huge difference for the long straight. It’s hard to translate into text but actually playing it, it’s all very natural.

    @Syclone0044@Syclone00446 ай бұрын
  • Great explainer. I always wondered what the difference in distance traveled is between the perfect line, the ideal line, and a theoretical line that minimizes total distance over a lap (i.e., tight to the inside turn with gradual straights that point to the next inside of a turn). I suspect that the ideal line is actually the longest distance traveled but is negated by the speed difference.

    @mrfochs@mrfochs7 ай бұрын
    • Yes and no, it was explained in the video... Asuming, that your car has (extremely high capability on acceleration and decelleration force, the track and your tyres provide same grip level everywhere, you are able to break down to exactly the maximum driveable speed and you arrive at any given turn faster than the highest driveable speed, then the way with the longest ways through curves and the shortest straights would be the fastest, as in theory the way through a circle with twice the radius is twice as long, but driveable at 4 times the speed).. But as easy to guess this preconditions are seldom met.. On the other side, with a very slow car the really shortest way over the track would be the best one... In principle the line over a formula one track, which u would take with a bycicle, asuming u are not able to bike faster than 30 km/h.. The ideal solution is obviously something between those two extremes adopted to weather and the vehicle u drive

      @zickentrainer@zickentrainer6 ай бұрын
  • listen to this dude! i have been for a while now and it's honestly why i'm getting into the top splits.

    @aceboiga7223@aceboiga72237 ай бұрын
  • There is also the line you end up on in traffic, especially in the hobby racing segment since the cars vary so much. I call it the "don't get T-Boned by that guy who is burning up his breaks"-line.

    @RecklessFables@RecklessFables6 ай бұрын
  • After years of playing sim racing games I deff use a similar racing line. The textbook racing line through hairpins always felt off to me. I always figured you want to get on the throttle as quickly as possible coming out of a corner and that would make up for the slightly slower corner

    @karigreyd2808@karigreyd28086 ай бұрын
  • Holy shit never thought about corners in this much detail. Thanks

    @ultramb6206@ultramb62066 ай бұрын
  • can you show us side by side racing line and explanation with f1 vs lmp1 vs gt3 cars?

    @npc4188@npc41886 ай бұрын
  • About the wet line / dry line, does rubber accumulate on the track even if it's been wet or raining already? For example, would drivers start following the dry line even on a wet track and later switch to the wet line?

    @kurisutofusan@kurisutofusan4 ай бұрын
  • Front loaded suspension is harder to control and stop regardless of type of vehicle. Hence stopping and accelerating best done in straight line.

    @GorVala@GorVala6 ай бұрын
  • Hi good sir. Can you discuss those drivers in F1 that DO use constant-radius arcs? You see it a lot in Mercedes-era Bottas (funnily enough not in his Williams or his Sauber era imo), in Sainz, and Button. Those 1 wheel movement, hold the arc, before releasing the corner?

    @raymondu99@raymondu9921 күн бұрын
  • Short version is to minimize the time spent not accelerating. The sooner you’re pointed in a direction you can apply power (generally), the better. I love this video though. Excellent reduction to ‘simple’ terms while touching all of the finer points that make racing an art.

    @jonh284@jonh2846 ай бұрын
  • Sure wish I had access to this type of info years ago for Alfa track days back at Hallet, OK.! Had good instructors, but this type of diagramming and explanation is wonderful. =D=

    @donwheeler1683@donwheeler16836 ай бұрын
  • Prior to the ad segment I was disappointed and thought I wouldn't learn any more than what was shown in the thumbnail. However, immediately after the ad roll I learned so much and gained incredible respect for professional racing drivers across the board. I had no idea even the supposed simplest idea of driving-line decision-making was so complex and crucial to good lap times!

    @michaelt589@michaelt5897 ай бұрын
  • Very inspiring 👍

    @bbbenj@bbbenj6 ай бұрын
  • Awesome video

    @ichewtoast111@ichewtoast1116 ай бұрын
  • The hairpin at suzuka, looks like it's better to miss the apex than start braking before straightening the wheel on the slight right hander.

    @freakinccdevilleiv380@freakinccdevilleiv3804 ай бұрын
  • Longterm F1 fan here, but this is something I hadn't really considered before, so apologies if this comes across noobish. Your passing comment about wet and dry lines gives me to wonder how often per season the surface of any given racetrack gets cleaned of ingrained rubber - and who sanctions it? FIA? \m/

    @officialmcdeath@officialmcdeath7 ай бұрын
    • I wonder this as well whenever I watch FP or qualis and the commentators talk about more rubber being laid down leading to better lap times... does it just wear off due to weather between events? Or does it get deliberately cleaned?

      @apeacebone6499@apeacebone64997 ай бұрын
  • Great intro to lines. However you missed some points, for example: in non fig 8 tracks, there are always more of one handed bends to the other. So it probably but not always, makes sense to set up the suspension for the magority of corners and rely on driver skill for the sub optimun opposite corners. Relying on driver technique to balance the car will dictate the type of line to attempt. You didnt comment on opting STRATEAGICALLY to drive on the racing line or to abnormally dive for the lesser grip surface. This can be used to good effect.

    @user-de8bu5es6f@user-de8bu5es6f7 ай бұрын
  • One thing to add is that the ideal line shifts from the theoretical line more or less proportionally with the car's capability to accelerate. The easier it is to get back to speed, the more the ideal shifts. If the car cannot pick-up speed fast, the ideal is closer to theoretical as you need to conserve as much speed through the corner.

    @raresiova5546@raresiova55466 ай бұрын
  • We saw a change of track surface at Singapore gp this year! F1 drivers complained of the change of grip.

    @EredarLordJaraxxus@EredarLordJaraxxus7 ай бұрын
  • lol immediately noticed Van Gisbergen's burnout, that was one monster Bathurst 1000

    @volt_8339@volt_83396 ай бұрын
  • TL;DR: weight distribution and the fact that (racing) cars have better brakes than the engine so it makes sense to get on the throttle earlier which means you should try to rotate the car earlier in the corner.

    @MikkoRantalainen@MikkoRantalainen7 ай бұрын
  • Is this a reupload or an updated version video? I remembered seeing a video on this topic on this channel before...

    @ycthao@ycthao7 ай бұрын
  • i like your explanations @driver61 but i still haven't got my money back from established titles that you promoted. did you get your money for the sale?

    @Palmit_@Palmit_7 ай бұрын
  • Ground effects makes a Huge difference and skews the geometric ideal😎

    @ruftime@ruftime6 ай бұрын
  • How should I take corners in a GT3 car in assetto corsa competizione? When shall i use regular ideal line, when shall I late apex certain corners, etc?

    @catnipherb@catnipherb6 ай бұрын
  • Very cool to see this explained. It's something I've been intuitively aware of and executed when playing racing games for years but chalked it up bad technique on my part. It's nice to know that I was actually on the right track

    @SidIcarus@SidIcarus7 ай бұрын
    • Right track- pun intended, I hope!

      @williamfraser6970@williamfraser69707 ай бұрын
  • I remembered on PlayStation 1 on Toca that straight brake line that the longer was the better.

    @alundrasrt@alundrasrt7 ай бұрын
  • I learned something one day at Shannonville when allowing an actual professional race driver to do a few laps in my car. I was feeling pretty cocky as my laps felt considerably faster than his. He was braking earlier and entering corners slower than I was. But the stopwatch doesn’t lie. I would go in on the ragged edge, and as such couldn’t get on the throttle nearly as early as him. He would be full throttle at the same point I was still braking. I learned that day, it’s not how fast you go into a corner it’s how fast you come out. That small increment in speed is carried all the way to the next corner, making for a faster lap.

    @RB-kr1ww@RB-kr1ww6 ай бұрын
  • Summed up in a PS game , you want to make the track as long as possible so you can go fast longer. And set it up so you are breaking before and accelerating out of the corners.

    @streamofconsciousness5826@streamofconsciousness58267 ай бұрын
  • Emphasize on corner exit acceleration for major straight line on the track

    @AmirPomen@AmirPomen6 ай бұрын
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