In the darkness of Moria, a great evil lurks in the deep. Here dwells Durin's Bane, the mighty Balrog of Morgoth. Why then, amidst the tumultuous events of the War of the Ring, did Sauron not harness this monstrous force and unleash it upon his foes?
Today, we will delve into the darkness of Sauron's mind, seeking the whispered secrets that reveal the reasoning behind his lack of interest in recruiting Durin's Bane to his cause.
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One does not simply recruit a Balrog 👌
as a person who plays a lot of RPGs....this feels like a challenge 😁
What is this new devilry? ...
I think maybe Trump will use the Balrog
@@torvilasulvstle362hopefully. Probably the last hope.
@@torvilasulvstle362yeah right.. she wont even stay in the same house with him.
Balrog cost about 340 points, Sauron chosed to use the remaining points in two Goblin Squads for his warband.
i hate it when people play meta
Is there a game like banner lord but lord of the rings? If so I’d play ts out of it
@@internetperson8224they working on a mod and it looks great
Battle of Wesnoth @@internetperson8224
@@internetperson8224There is a mod for warband called the last days of third age.
I always wondered, if the Balrog just wanted to be left alone, why did he confront the party. Then the thought of the bucket landing on his head that Pippen dropped made me chuckle to myself.
“Get off my lawn!”
Well in fairness I like to be left alone too but if I woke up to a crazy racket one day and found one of my cousins sneaking across my living room with a bunch of their pets I'd probably be throwing hands too.
It probably felt the call of the ring. Could you imagine what would happen if it got it. It would literally set the whole world on fire.
a balrog its basically a karen, they claim to want to be left alone and yet they stir up shit all the time
Bethesda does LOTR
Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they would work together.
More organised than lawful
@@fauxparrThat's what Lawful means in the context of alignment. "Lawful" does not mean "adhering to THE law", it means order. That's why "Chaotic" is its opposite.
Make a geat Sitcom thou…. 😂
Exactly
This isn’t D&D
Id imagine after thousands of years of being the ruler of Moria the Balrog would not be interested in being the servant of another who it would see as only a equal at best plus the Balrog would of remembered Sauron's failures as Morgoth's underling so it would be less impressed than most by Sauron.
Excellent point 👉
Man it's so wild to think of the perspective of beings 1000's of years old and how they would impact potential alliances. What does a balrog even want from life anyway?
@@JayFunningham Domination, most likely.
@@JayFunninghamand knowing full well Eru exists and would be quite unhappy with them after all the misery they have caused seeing as elves and men are his pet projects
@@Dinoslay Balrogs without Melkor's direction seem to mostly just want to hide underground as seen what Durin's Bane and the other Balrogs who lurked in the depths of Angband doing not much of anything when Melkor was forced to return to Valinor in till he called for them after Ungoliant turned on him and demanded the Silmarils. Hard to say if Durin's Bane even cared that Orcs inhabited Moria or if he had any interaction with them beyond the Orcs cowering in fear like frightened mice in his presence.
Durin's Bane probably saw himself as superior to Sauron. Every time Sauron took to the field of battle he was destroyed. The Balrog would have had no respect for him.
He might have been right to do so, too. WIth the Ring lost and his power broken, Sauron might have been too weak to even control the Balrog.
Even while wearing the One Ring, Sauron still fell in battle against Erendil and Gil-galad, which is how Isildur was able to cut off his finger and take the Ring. My assumption is that this is why he never comes out of Barad-dur during the War of the Ring. Not even to lead his armies. He's too worried about getting his body killed, again. A Balrog wouldn't care about Sauron's ego and self-importance. It would just proceed to hack and whip him until he either submitted or lost another body. Which is almost certainly why Sauron was content for it to remain in Moria.
Fair point. But another way to look at it is that Gil-Galad was wearing two of the Elven rings of power. It was either that or he wore one and Cirdan wore another, and both were there facing off against Sauron, along with Elendil, Isildur, and Elrond. Gil-galad died when Sauron reached out and grabbed him by the throat and burned him to death, even though he was wearing that ring. So my perspective is that Sauron was significantly mightier than any of them, even all of them together, and with two Elven rings. It was because of what seems to have been basically a desperate hail Mary effort by Isildur that they defeated him and weren't all killed.
@@jimmyboy131 - We don't really know what combat powers, if any, the rings had. The three Elven rings were mostly designed to *preserve,* not to destroy. This is why Elrond and Galadriel used theirs to defend their respective realms from the inside. Even Narya, the Ring of Fire, which Gandalf had been wearing since Cirdan gave it to him upon his arrival in Middle-earth, seemingly couldn't be used to just throw D&D-style fireballs around. Heck, it couldn't even melt the snow when the Fellowship was trying to cross over the Misty Mountains.
@@daniels7907True we know the Elven rings were mean primarily for preservation. However, we also know they can an boost inherently powerful being and make them even more powerful. Like when Galadriel destroyed the Necromancer's lair in Mirkwood. She did it with the help of the ring she bears. So three powerful elven lords, two of them with a ring of power, plus two Numenorean princes at the height of their power, nearly couldn't stand up to Sauron with his ring. That's my view on it, of course subject to discussion, debate, and ridicule.
Sauron: "Bow before me and serve my will!" Durin's Bane: "Piss off, you're not my supervisor."
Durins bane: dies screaming🤣
@@ItsAme7143more like Sauron running away in fear look at it like Durin is Sauron’s big brother
Not that Sauron couldn’t take him it just wouldn’t be worth it
@@isaiahkrausi2348 big brother?🤣 Do your research bruh it's the opposite, gandalf bodied durins bane and that's really all the evidence you should have to have
Great analysis. As pointed out, Sauron and the Balrog were both Maia. The Balrog, most likely, would have told Sauron to piss off if Sauron had approached him. "Dude! You got beaten by a girl and a dog!"
"Says basement dweller."
>the same elf and dog that BTFO’d Morgoth…
Saruman was ALSO a Maiar and yet he still served Sauron...
@joshuasaucedo2795 yes Because not all maiar are equal Sauron was stronger the both Gandalf and Saruman even as Maiar
@@terrancehylton-lyons1776 but Gandolf defeated the balrog
I can totally buy Balrog suffering from PTSD, not wanting to experience another War of Wrath and just sit idle.
They're afraid Tulkas might show up again lol. They can probably still hear his laughter.
@@thenson1Halo Tulkas: I whooped your boss' ass easily. Where are you..... Come out and play~ hahahahahaha
Nope, Balrog by far stronger than Sauron in raw power. They dont bow to Maiar except to the Valar of Morgoth
Sauron may have assumed or known that the Balrog was in Moria, but the Balrog was near his equal and Sauron would have been consumed by fear that the Balrog would claim the ring and claim over-lordship rather than serve Sauron.
The Balrog of Moria, while incredibly formidable in its own right, was ABSOLUTELY *NOT* "near (Sauron's) equal."
He was. Without the One Ring, Sauron would never stand a chance against a Balrog.@@miklosselkirk
@@miklosselkirk a mere mortal human defeated Sauron with his ring. Gandalf said Durin's Bane was beyond the whole fellowship of the ring as far as power, and Gandalf himself died in the process of defeating it. Melkor himself corrupted the Maiar turning them into the Balrogs; fearsome, powerful servants. After Sauron's physical form was destroyed when Númenor was destroyed, he lost quite a bit of his strength and power, much of which he didn't regain; it took him centuries just to reform. Sauron's remaining powers were in controlling others, not direct confrontational combat. The Balrog wasn't a threat to take over Middle Earth because they weren't leaders; they were destroyers, created by Melkor to be such. If the Balrog and Sauron were to go head to head in a physical fight, Sauron would get beaten badly, losing his physical form again and be set back centuries. But Sauron wouldn't fight personally; he'd send his minions and armies. That's why he's never seen in LotR. He stays behind the scenes and sends others to do his will, using his powers of control.
@@miklosselkirkThe Balrog is absolutely an equal to Sauron.
@@CreamyPesto505no, Balrogs were about equal to the Istari. And Tolkien plainly states that Sauron is of a far higher order of maiar than the Istari
One small mistake, the One Ring was forged before Sauron lost his physical form in Numenor.
So I looked it up to make sure, and you are correct. Ring was made around 1600 of Second Age, and Numenor fell in 3319. I'm sure there is an answer somewhere, but assuming Sauron was wearing the ring for ~1700 years and it was on his person when Numenor sank into the sea, how did the ring physically escape when Sauron's physical form was destroyed? Wouldn't the ring have sunk with Numenor to the bottom of the sea? How did it end up in Middle Earth?
@@thegreatlarry9454 He wasnt wearing it. His entire plan was to appear as meek as possible as to undermine the Numenoreans freom within. He didnt need the ring for that, and where safer to leave it but in Barad Dur. Its not like any harm could happen to it in Mordor...
@@jamesmaybrick2001 Maybe, but I think there's no friggin' way he would take even a 1% chance of one of his underlings gaining possession of the Ring. This seems like a plot hole by Tolkien, or else when his form was destroyed in Numenor he was able to bring it back with him.
@@hipstergenocide6053 You seem to misunderstood or simply dont know the fundamentals. The ring is entirely corrupting and to a significant degree sentient. It does everything it can to get back to Sauron. Every living thing in Mordor is bound to Sauron via the ring itself. Either directly or indirectly are under the rings power. What slave in Mordor do you think would have the power, strength of will, ambition or any quality at all to use the ring? It would take someone of incredible might and will to do that. Basically...Galadriel, the Balrog. OR (maybe) one of the Line of Elros.... The only place in Middle Earth that the ring would be utterly safe from harm and pose no threat at all to Sauron is Mordor. The only place that was dangerous was Numenor. Why do you think Sauron went there the way he did? He knew he couldnt win via force of arms. So he took the sneaky way.
@@thegreatlarry9454 In one of Tolkien's letters, he said that after the destruction of Numenor and Sauron's body, his spirit brought it back to Middle-earth. So Sauron definitely had the One Ring with him, and I can't think of any reason he would part ways with it unless by force.
Sauron wouldn't want a Balrog around now that Morgoth isn't there to keep his servants in their places by fear. After losing badly to Huan and Luthien in the First Age, followed by Elendil and Gil-galad in the Second (in the latter case, while wearing the One Ring), Sauron was being extremely cautious about his personal safety. This is why he hides inside of Barad-dur throughout LotR rather than coming forth and leading his armies in person. Durin's Bane could eat the Nazgul for breakfast, and Sauron for lunch. Sauron doesn't want to be put in a position of having to fight such a rival for power.
Probably not quite as large a power differential, or the wizards could have done the same. But yeah. basically this. Recruiting a Balrog without the One Ring around sounds like a very bad idea.
@@Alexander_Kale - The Istari had their Maiar powers limited by the Valar so as to prevent them from acting like angels/gods around the peoples of Middle-earth. My personal theory is that Gandalf's speech before he fought Durin's Bane wasn't just him being a drama queen. I think it was a *prayer* asking to have his powers unlocked so that he could fight the Balrog, which was also a Maia. Gandalf was wearing the body of a healthy but not young Man. There is absolutely *no* way he could have survived that fall *and* fought the Balrog up the Endless Stair for *days* without accessing power that he wasn't allowed to use otherwise. Sauron, who actually knew the Balrogs back in the day, wouldn't want to have to face one without the One Ring and probably several other tricks and advantages as well. He's no Morgoth and he doesn't have that kind of power. Especially against a rival that would just straight up fight him, not hatch schemes like Saruman was doing.
@@daniels7907 I prefer not to speculate. We saw Gandalf fighting the Balrog. He won, but died, and was reborn as Gandalf the white (for reasons I admittedly do not understand). On top of that, humans, if exceptional ones with Elven heritage, can best Balrogs in single combat. The easiest way to explain this would be that you probably need some extra juice to kill a Balrog, but not THAT much of it.
@@Alexander_Kale - Ecthelion and Glorfindel, mighty Elven warriors, *died* fighting Balrogs during the Fall of Gondolin. In any case, you're ignoring my point about the simple problem of physical demands. The fall into the deeps of Moria was a *long* one. The subsequent battle up the Endless Stair lasted for *days!* There was a reason why Gandalf didn't want seasoned warriors like Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli and Legolas to help him in fighting Durin's Bane - namely that he wanted them to *survive* and continue the quest, not get into a battle in which they would probably die.
@@daniels7907 I really do not see what that has to do with anything. Gandalf felt he might be able to fight the Balrog. He knew his friends would not be able to fight the Balrog. Also, yes, Balrogs killed Elven Warriors, of course they did. But Ecthelion, while dying in that battle, also KILLED Gothmog. The flipping Lord of the Balrogs. So you do not have to be Maiar in order to kill a Blarog. The power differential is not THAT big. q.e.d.
What conversation between the Balrog and Sauron would boil down to… Sauron: “Hey buddy, remember me?” Balrog: *confused* "Mairon, is that you?” Sauron: “Yep. Long time no see. Ya look great, how are you?” Balrog: “I’m fine old friend. I should be the one asking that. Sauron: *confused* “Come again?” Balrog: “What, are you not use it mirrors anymore? You look terrible, your aura is smaller and you feel weak in power.” genuine concern “What happened to you? Your face, your hair, your hand?” Sauron: “It’s a long story, but to summarize; I made ring to enhance my power and even bound my soul to it but lost it and “died” about 3,000 years ago but I’m better now.” Balrog: “You bound yourself to a ring? Gothmog and Boldog were right, you truly are an idiot.” Sauron: *desperately trying to get to the point out of impatience* “Whatever, I stayed up the old empire in Mordor. You in or out?” Balrog: “Are Lord Melkor, Cpt. Gothmog, Kosmot, or even the pale Balrog around?” Sauron: ”…N…no.” Balrog: “Then get lost, ya ember haired pretty boy. And leave me in peace.” Sauron: *utterly done* “You dare speak to me in such a manner? Dare disobey me!? Listen well, you oversized…” Balrog ascends to true high, form and power: *cuts him off* “No YOU listen to ME, you deformed usurping weasel!” “I DON’T take orders from YOU! I *only* obey Melkor, Gothmog, or my Balrog kin! And they are all gone. Get off my lawn, and don’t come back. Sauron powering up: *stern yet raspy voice* “You DON’T want to do this.” Balrog: “Don’t bother, Mairon. We both know what happened the last time you fought a Balrog in single combat. And you were much stronger back then. Go home and leave me be *In* my home.”
My thought exactly xD
I want part two on my desk ASAP.
I learned more about the mythology from this than an entire season of Rings of Power keep em coming!
I haven't read the novel so I'm very curious about what happened the last time Sauron fought a Balrog in single combat. Did he get his ass kicked?
@@HuyDinh-fe4rnAnd if he did, we can powerscale his LoTR form somewhat to Gandalf's and conclude that in single combat, Gandalf would actually have a decent chance
When I first read the book, I just assumed Sauron didn't KNOW the Balrog was there. It was hiding deep beneath Moria and I always assumed that Sauron knew the Dwarves weren't moving back in and was content to leave it at that; he didn't care WHY so he never looked. But having re-read it, I agree. However, consider this alternative: the Balrog HAD already been recruited by Sauron. As you mention in your video, there was a lot of strategic value for Sauron to have the Balrog hold Moria against the Dwarves. I don't think there was really anything the Balrog could have done that would have been more beneficial for Sauron than what it was already doing. Sauron had the strength of arms to overpower the rest of the world. His stratagems and manipulations were solid. Maybe, if he had captured the Ring and began his conquest of the world, he would have called the Balrog forth and the Balrog would have answered and marched with him. But at this time, the Balrog was, in a way, a rear guard against the reformation of one of Sauron's greatest potential enemies.
That makes a fair bit of sense, that way the Balrog essentially has a fiefdom that's valuable in both strategic positioning and material wealth. Saurin loses nothing in the arrangement
@@toawing Balrog: I will stay here, chase away the Dwarves and wait for our master Morgoth to return like in the good old days in Angband before the First Age. Deal? Sauron : Deal. Also, after I subjugate Middle Earth, Want to have a drink? Balrog: Yeah sure lol.
@@felixleong61 more or less. Because why wouldn't you make a deal to get a Balrog on your side
An interesting hypothetical I'm surprised you didn't mention is what might have happened had the Balrog managed to get the ring from Frodo, presumably having killed him and the rest of the Fellowship. If the Balrog refused to follow Sauron willingly, would the ring have been able to influence it enough to join Sauron's cause, or at least manipulate it into accidently serving Sauron's plans? Personally, I don't imagine the Balrog would have become loyal to Sauron immediately, instead the power of the ring would make it so confident that it would try to replace Sauron, heading to Mordor to take over, the ring slowly making the Balrog more like a second Sauron, so by the time it got to Mordor the Balrog had basically become a mirror to Sauron, which Sauron could surplant completely, gaining a powerful physical form that isn't as drained as Sauron had become by the time of the books. That's my head canon at least.
Wow, imagine the devastations. Fires like from the Elder Days
Interesting take
It isn't how it works. If you are strong enough you will control the ring. Gandalf, Galadriel even probably some people could do it. Of course Balrog would control the ring
Would he be worse than Sauron then? Scary. @@sychuan3729
@@sychuan3729Where are you getting this idea? The ring answers to no one, except Sauron. That's why it's tempting for those with power - they *think* they can control it, they're meant to think this way. That's exactly how Sauron's power works.
@Realms Unravelled A very thoughtful, well presented hypothesis and the more I listened, the more I was impressed with your logic. It may, or may not be correct, but it is perfectly logical and compelling. Bravo!
I've come across many channels over my years on youtube and none have this caliber of passion. The artwork, attention to detail, and overall coverage of lore is absolutely excellent.
Calibre.
@@user-nz6dx2fj6h Or is it caliber
The balrog would have been perceived as a potential rival until such time the Sauron regained the ring.
Well, because the Balorg was not another dark spirit... but a co-worker from back in the day. I'd think that he would have to do too much power brokering and sharing to get the Balrog on board... or leave them alone for later.
Weird how 7 year old me somehow got it right that "big demon thing would want to fight other big demon thing". Sometimes the answer really is just that simple.
Universal law. Law of nature. Rule of cool. Basic understandings of all creatures of the universe
I'm really enjoying your channel. Thank you for another great video.
Good sir you are masterfully eloquent, this was a treat to listen to, I hereby swear fealty to your content
I'm new to your channel and love your stuff. Your storytelling and narration, along with the background music are stellar. Keep up the great work!
Wow, super impressive dialogue and I love the artwork. Well done 👍🏽
The writing of the narration is absolutely sublime!
Tolkien had said in a letter that it was in fact Sauron's malevolence that awoke the Balrog in Moria, not the dwarves digging too far. It sensed Sauron's hatred radiating from Dol Guldur, which reminded it of its former master. I'm also certain that it sensed the Ring in Moria and probably wanted it for himself, otherwise he would've just let them pass through. With the ring, it could have become a new Dark Lord, and Sauron was aware of what an inconvenience that kind of rivalry would have been, so he likely thought it better to keep the Balrog in the dark (badum tss) about affairs. He was already weary of Saruman trying to find it for himself.
Well done. Phenomenal artwork!
I've watched a few videos of this theme, I loved the art you've put though. Never seen most of them and as a visual person myself I found them beautiful.
I asked this question on a similar LOTR channel about 3-4 years ago and posed a lot of questions mentioned in this video... So glad someone finally covered it. Including my questions of Sauron bending the Balrog to his will. Which was something I'd always wondered
Beautiful video. The script, the voice, the artwork. ¡Gracias! Muy buen análisis sobre una pregunta que no me había hecho.
100 Argentine Pesos equals $0.12 USD
@@user-ym4xy6us5e yes, exactly.
@@user-ym4xy6us5e i didnt realize that I could make a bigger cash gift
@@user-ym4xy6us5e if everyone who viewed this video gave $0.12 the creator would get a bonus $3000 for making this video. Hell, give 5¢, KZheadr will get $1k at least. This guy is setting a powerful precedent of how we should all be. KZhead needs to make micro tipping very easy and available at the press of a button, it would change the game for content creators.
Great content and awesome music. Subscribed. Please keep it coming!
Beautifully written. Subbed.
wow, you sir just earned another subscriber, great bloody job mate
I love this kind of stuff, so chill and interesting and easy to fall asleep to as well
haha love how this went up a day ago and its been in my algorithm already, most excellent!
Wonderful . Lovely illustrations too .
Well done, this is quickly becoming my favorite channel.
You have low expectations. You’re just making money for the author of this vid, and more with all his new succour products!
@user-nz6dx2fj6h somebody drank their haterade today! Remember what uncle Jimmy said "don't hate participant"
@@RA10H56 Aah, the “hate’ label, so casually thrown out if you disagree with anyone. Don’t care pal, it’s true, you do have low expectations.
@@user-nz6dx2fj6h Imagine crying this damn hard because someone likes something you don't, Mr. "Joined Sep 5, 2023". 😂😂
@@stanleyclark923 I've no idea what that means. Translation anyone?
Great video. I'm looking forward to checking out more.
Really enjoyed that, never thought of The Balrog as a victim before. I guess no one escapes their fate. Thank you and keep them coming.
I believe the idea and influence on lore of the difference between "demons and devils" in things such as dnd and such comes straight out of this perspective. Good video, good explanation. 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
Sauron: "Join me, Flame of Udûn!" Balrog: "You're not the boss of me now."
Great choice of music in the background!
U had me at holding a key strategic point without effort.
The triumvirate of evil,Sauron,Durin's Bane,Smaug. A mighty alliance
I didn't know I wanted this channel. Thanks.
In D&D- the Balrog would be Chaotic Evil- untameable and wild, untrustworthy. Sauron would be Lawful Evil- Tyrannical, yet organized, and wary. In Comics, Sauron is Dr. Doom, Balrog would be Joker.
What many don't know is the fact, that the Balrog was actually in retirement. A homeless veteran suffering PTSD.
Without listening this tape, one must consider that Sauron and Balrogs are equally Maiar so Balrogs would show no dedication to serve under Sauron, although they may join forces. Only Melkor has the authority over Balrogs.
Keep up the good work bro❤
top notch videos, subbed
Nice work dude thanks
I think he indirectly did use Durin's Bane, knowing his enemies couldn't recliam the realm of Moria as long as the balrog dwells there, being a giant road block to Saurons enemies, in effect serving Sauron's interests. Plus, why risk the possibility of Durins Bame telling Sauron, F-U I only serve Melkor, and attempting to make Sauron his bitch and attack Mordor. Lol
In my opinion, primary reason would be sauron, istari and the balrogs all were mair, hence of equal rank in someway or another. Balrog would not submit to sauron. As the Nazguls submitted to Sauron's will. If nothing sauron as insecure is he is. He would believe the balrog will try to take the ring for himself, as he believed Aragorn have did.
“Hey there fellow Maiar! Boy it sure hasn’t been the same since Morgoth is gone, isn’t it?”
Great video. just subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
Well done, my friend. Love your videos and hope they never stop.
THAT was a very nice thumbnail :)
Probably because it despised sauron for failing morgoth several times. Not to mention it likely didnt believe in saurons strength and didnt want to be a puppet or enter anoher pointless war
Yeah I used to always wonder why ol’ Sauron didn’t never use the Balreezy
the artworks is incredible
I love Realms Unravelled videos.
I read the Silmarillion a long time ago, so forgive my possible mistakes: Sauron is kind of like a mini-me for Morgoth. Just as Morgoth was once the strongest of his kind, he spent his power creating/dominating Dragons/Balrogs and other creatures under his command. Same with Sauron, except he pulled a Voldemort and made a single horcrux with most of his power, so he'd be immortal unless the ring was destroyed, conveniently only possible in his backyard. Even without the ring, his ability to gather up unto himself all evil things, using his will to command the Nazgul, his armies, and the eye of Sauron, undoubtedly shows just how powerful he still was even without the ring, but at the same time, doing all that consumed a lot of his attention, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That said, I highly doubt he could dominate or will the Balrog to join him and serve him, especially if the Balrog didn't want to do it in the first place. Also, you have to remember that the Balrog had enemies all around, and could hardly leave Moria unnoticed, or without an escort of a formidable army. On one side of the mountains, he would inevitably have to pass by Isengard and Rohan or Gondor, while on the other side there is Lothlorien right on his borders. People tend to overestimate the Balrog, and the fact is that it can be killed, just like how Smaug was killed by a regular old human. The Balrog could live in Moria undisturbed for a very long time, until someone more powerful than him came and tried to kill him. Also, and this is where my memory becomes fuzzy, but as a corrupted Maia, wouldn't the death of the Balrog send his spirit or whatever back to the Gods, just like what happened to Gandalf after he defeated said Balrog? There he would be judged as guilty as his evil masters and probably locked away, not given a new body or a new chance at life. So the Balrog had every reason to just hang out in Moria, avoid getting killed, and basically just do whatever he pleased. Lastly, it's highly likely Sauron was worried about treachery, from either the Balrog or (before he was killed) Smaug. Both were creatures of immense power and intelligence (for the time period), and probably strong enough to challenge his will, unless he first obtained the One Ring. Just my thoughts, correct me if I'm wrong :)
I always assumed that Sauron just didn’t know the Balrog was there. It’s almost like a sock you left forgotten under a couch. He probably caught a look of Gandalf fighting it atop the peak and went, “Oh! There was one of those just lying around. Damn.”
Sauron did not recruit the *Balrog* because *M. Bison* had already hired the *Balrog* as his personal bodyguard.
I love how they claim the valar so Gandalf, are super strong yet his only spells in the movies is a fucking light.
It's not a light, it's a ring of power, and it was to guide mankind, not rule us
You didn't pay attention well.
a good voice to listen to you sound like one of the commentators of a history channel
Ungoliant wasn't treacherous, rather Melkor who had renaged on his bargain with her.
Yes, he did..but consider: treachery was part and parcel of the Professor's definition of evil. If she had managed to gain the upper hand, she would surely have done the same, regardless of the terms of the bargain.
@@PhineasPhule That is speculation, she didn't plot or move against Melkor until wronged.
Ungoliant would have inevitably betrayed morgoth. Her hunger would never be sated and would drive her to consume everything including him. She is not capable of loyalty.
@@mikeroberts2077 It is purely hypothetical, loyalty doesn't come into it as she was not a servant of Morgoth and hence was not in a position to betray him. Morgoth sought out Ungoliant, he made the deal with her, she upheld her side of the bargain that Morgoth proposed; Morgoth renaged on the deal and refused to pay what he had promised. She was within her rights to attempt to extract her due payment. Left to herself she wasn't actively evil and all consuming and there is no evidence to support what you say in Tolkien's writing.
I always assumed he just couldn’t control it. Sauron is a very powerful Maiar, but Durin’s Bane is a corrupted Maiar itself, and a very powerful one.
I feel like Sauron's alliance with Saruman (a fellow Maia) runs counter to your evidence of Sauron's need for absolute allegiance. There would be a great risk of competition from Saruman similar to that of a allegiance with the Balrog
The Istari were still limited in their power/abilities by the Valar.
@@The_Tradie_Trainer And even with those limitations, look how his allegiance with Saruman turned out... not great in terms of loyalty, certainly.
I find the arguments very doubtful. The Balrog wasn't a creature of fear but a tyrant in it's own domain.
Because Tolkien was still developing his narrative. Parts of Moria wear written years before the rest of the FotR.
🔔 RU@4:11: Sauron's will was NOT "indomitable" it was near-indomitable. Aragorn beat him in a contest of wills via Saruman's former Palantir, remember.
As did Denathor. And Saruman perhaps. At least on a equal level.... For a time. I interpret Saurons will being on a power level of it's own because it hardly could be challenged by any during any given moment but to be able to maintain such a raging unshakable will that never ceases its aims is his true unmatched trait.
Hello! Your comment caught my attention as I remembered reading something of releveance in one of Tolkien's letters: "In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn. In the contest with the Palantír Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present." Make of that what you will however I thought you may be interested!
@@RealmsUnravelled A reply worthy of the very high opinion I had (and have) of you.
Very interesting topic, think you hit it right on the head
Awesome narrating
Cool video, thank you
Thanks! I love listening to stories
My first super thanks! I really appreciate the support for the channel! 😃
lol giving away monopoly money it is a joke i would be insulted
Cause he will never have that Valar drip, much less Melkor's.
Your wordsmithing with the scripts of these videos, keen perspective on the lore, and exploration of such interesting topics has made this my new favorite Tolkien lore channel! Keep up the good work. Looking forward to some long-form videos!
Uh....cause he was terrified of it. Didn't you see that thing. It was HUGE AND SCARY!!!!
Sauron and the Blarog were the some rank of spirit, it wouldn’t really make a lot of sense for one to work for the other, maybe working together on a common goal would have work done, but what does the Balrog really want? I doubt it has plans for taking over the world, just seems content to wonder in the dark of Moria.
The beginning sounds like a lot of speculation. How would we know the Balrog is fearing the outside? Maybe he just likes it in there?
good stuff!
where does all this amazing art come from?
But... Sauron could and likely would have used Smaug, as per Gandalf (and I doubt that Gandalf would concern himself with ridiculous "what if" scenarios)...what Sauron could have used as an enticement, I cannot tell, since the dragon already had a river, a mountain of gold, silver and the last mithril available. The Dragons, like the Balrogs, served Morgoth and Morgoth alone. Sauron would need to feed Smaug with the rest of the Dwarven species to get the old worm to flap off the set Mirkwood ablaze, for instance. Hard, but not impossible. Still, a good video, and look luck with this channel!
I just want to make a point here because this is the 3rd video on this topic I've watched in recent weeks, I believe. The Ainur communicated between themselves telepathically with as far as we can discern, no range limitations. How do we know Sauron and Durin's Bain _didn't_ converse? It may be that they couldn't come to terms, it maybe that the Balrog was being held in reserve for the right moment, it might be the the Balrog told Sauron to screw off or vice versa. Why is the assumption always that they didn't talk?
I think the assumption comes from them being incarnate beings. The Ainur are ethereal and thus can communicate across large distances. Once they entered into Arda, they were bound by its rules. The same reason why they can "die" but not be completely destroyed.
@@spinstu1As incarnate beings they are able to telepathically commune. Hell, Sauron could have visited in person if he wanted either in corporal or incorporeal form. He could still shed his raiment if he so chose, he was simply unable to take a form that did not reflect his true self, i.e. a "Fair form". Yet the assumption he didn't persists. Sauron was quite the strategist, and he came within a hare's whisker of winning a war thousands of years in the making. It's entirely out of character to suggest he didn't at least feel out the Balrog's position on the matter. Equal to the question in the title is a never asked question: Why didn't the Balrog make his own moves on Middle Earth?
@@saladinbob now that is indeed a great question. If you could route Durins folk so easily, why not expand? Is it because it's simply not in his nature? All brawn and no brains maybe.
@@spinstu1 Gothmog was, along with Sauron, Melkor's chief Lieutenant, I doubt you reach that level without having the ability to do more than smash things.
The artist has the hammers and axes gripped at odd angles. If they were swung like that, they would hit the target at equally odd angles. In the one of Sauron at the anvil, the hammer would strike with the side of the head instead with the end.
Excellent!!
Fan belt squealed in the car the other day. I looked at the driver and screamed "NAZGUL!!!"
complexities of choice and destiny .
Am I the only one that likes the Balrog and his will to stay alone,hidden from the world like a powerful relic of an incredibly ancient past?
In short, they are both equals. They are both Mayar. Morgoth was a Valar, Sauron was a Mayar, along with all of the Balrogs. They took on the Balrog form, Sauron did not but, I am sure Sauron could if he wanted it. He seems to be among the most powerful of the Mayar. Gandalf is also a Mayar, for those who don't know.
"Durin's Bane" nickname only means it was dwarves problem at the time, but real Balrog's name is Felagrog. He was 5th most powerful Balrog, out of seven existed.
Citation?
@@Mortabluntsilmarillion
good vid.
My view has always been while Sauron is definitely stronger than the other great evils we encounter, I always thought they were powerful enough that trying to dominate them would have been to much effort. The Balrog specifically while weaker I doubt could be forced, Smaug (if he survived) and Shelob could be but I think it would have been easier to either leave them be (shelob guarding) or bribed in Smaug's case to cause havoc.
Did you forget that Sauron was a Maiar of Aule?
@@user-nz6dx2fj6hSingle combat is different, remember that power and might is much deeper developed on Tolkien's lore, it's not a matter of this fellow kills that other fellow. I agree that subjugation of Durin's Bane would be too much of a risk to a weakened Sauron.
Agreed, durins bane may or may not be able to best Sauron but lacking the ring it's unwise to try. Besides as a few point out, the Balrog taking over Moira still helps Sauron.
@@toawing Moira ??? Don't you mean Moria? The Balrog had nothing to do with Sauron, and its overthrow of the Dwarves in Moria, was just coz he was pissed off at being woken up!
@@user-nz6dx2fj6h pardon for the spelling mistake. And what I meant was that while the Balrog has little to do with Sauron he's still unlikely to war with him. While depriving the dwarves of an important city is to Sauron's advantage. Sauron "wins" because an enemy lost, even though the Balrog isn't an ally
Ok, I'm hooked, good story, great structure, fantastic rethorical touch and that great story telliing voice many like me are a bit jealous of:). AND it is a VERY good take that ive never thought about, sauron was like the ultiimate fascist, he wanted complete order and complete control, I can't believe I didn't see this, genius Also, it would be hard to control the balrogs after the conquest, they would crave eternal chaos, while the only position he would be able to offer them would to act as some kind of guardians, it wouldn't be enough for these, Melkor on the other hand, could promise them to sow chaos and then chaos within the chaos! Kind regards, Solo-sweden
The Balrog represents sin and evil. The Dwarves turned it on middle earth with their greed. Sauron didnt have to. This theme is the whole point of the trilogy
Sauron clearly could not afford the Baelrogs upkeep.
what an incredible channel, incredible voice, voluble as fuck, and to paraphrase Sean Lock; you have the very poetry of the English language in your voice. instant fan here! Thank you and cheers and Forth Eorlingas
I always felt that Sauron didn't need to move the balrog to achieve his ends, it had already conquered Khazad Dum- a feat Sauron had attempted and not succeeded... and was able to claim the riches of Moria for his own while Durins bane dwelt there, as a bonus, the long beards, his greatest foe among the dwarves, could not reclaim their home while he was there. Sauron already had loyal and powerful servants in the Nazgul to project his power, and the balrog might prove to be treacherous or hard to command. Better yet, he chose to keep it comfortable there because of the access it provided him to mithril, and the strategic position it locked down, after all, it gave him control of much of the misty mountains, locking down the passes of the mountains from rivendell, and while he resided in Dol Goldur, it kept his enemies from coming to his door so easily... it also served as a nearby distraction as well.
by the way, how is it we never hear of Sauron's armies being near invincible because of all the mithril armour they wore? What exactly was Sauron doing with all the mithril if he didn't use it for his armies? Answer: if you scratch the surface even of such an amazingly well thought out work of fiction you will come up with inconsistencies..
@@talstory Why would you waste an invaluable resource on expendable servants when their main strength is overwhelming numbers? 🤔 Would you really be a Dark Lord if you were trying to ensure the survival of your lowest servants?
Had the balrog joined the war the result would have been catastrophic.